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Perhaps I'm just paranoid about ISK -> GTC..

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Malcanis High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.27 19:00:00 - [31] Originally by: Lazuran Originally by: Kill Mail But I've been noticing something in the time code bazaar.. There are a group of people who tend to spam the WTS:GTC threads. They tend to have odd names, and do not show their corporations or anything. They go into every WTS thread and buy them all up! You know what they are, I know what they are, but is there anything that can be done? Yes, it's professional ISK farmers/spammers who buy the GTCs to pay for their own game time, something that is quietly ignored by those who support RMT in EVE. So, we have 2 drawbacks due to GTC sales for ISK, not 1 drawback and 1 advantage, like they would like us to believe. Right. Because ending GTC for ISk sales wouldn't make RMT sellers happy at all. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.27 19:01:00 - [32] Originally by: Lazuran Originally by: Setana Manoro So, in your opinion, the cure for the disease is to kill the patient ? Who is the patient? I think it's EVE and the disease is called RMT. Remove it and all is fine (i.e. prohibit GTC => ISK sales). Quote: Damn, good thing you don't have a job of responsability. :) If only you knew ... Man, you could be on to something there. Let's just make things we don't like illegal and then they will never occur ever again! BRILLIANT! CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Lazuran Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation	Posted - 2007.11.27 20:43:00 - [33] Originally by: Malcanis Man, you could be on to something there. Let's just make things we don't like illegal and then they will never occur ever again! BRILLIANT! How about we make GTC=>ISK trades legal and there will be no ISK sales spam ever again! Brilliant! Oh wait... "...been designed for one purpose and one purpose only. Imagine a handful of repair drones pouring from the carebear's mouth. Now imagine they have um, nothing." -Unknown Hel redesigner (2007)
Caine 607 Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.11.27 21:38:00 - [34] Originally by: Lazuran Originally by: Malcanis Man, you could be on to something there. Let's just make things we don't like illegal and then they will never occur ever again! BRILLIANT! How about we make GTC=>ISK trades legal and there will be no ISK sales spam ever again! Brilliant! Oh wait... Hahaha... touche ! I'm with you on this Lazuran - get a job, pay your way and have your say !
Daelin Blackleaf Aliastra	Posted - 2007.11.27 22:25:00 - [35] Originally by: Kill Mail You know what they are, I know what they are, but is there anything that can be done? Sir Molle's Alts? /tinfoil -------- EVE Trinity: THE SKY IS FALLING!
Guillame Herschel Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.11.27 22:42:00 - [36] Originally by: Estephania Originally by: Setana Manoro I'm one of those guys who has some free time, loves the game. So, you want to be uber in game, metagame with alts and all this when you actually don't have money to pay for the pleasure. But I do have the money for the pleasure, but not the time. So I bought a GTC and sold it to him. Not him directly, but someone like him. I hired him to grind for me. Yep, that's exactly what I did. And there is no shame in that. Why should I grind if I don't want to? This is a game, not a sentence. -- Guile can always trump hardware --
Argenton Sayvers	Posted - 2007.11.27 23:08:00 - [37] Why you can keep pushing your ISK farmer propaganda (ISK farmers hate GTC -> ISK because it totally destroyed their customer base - everyone who wants to buy ISK with $$$ just buys GTCs now, forcing them to slash prices and advertise offensively). In the end, moral trash is meaningless compared to one simple factor: Do you think CCP will willingly give up lots and lots of $$, a huge portion of their active subscriber base (maybe 50%, maybe a lot more are alt accounts fueled with GTC) to ISK farmer propaganda?
Devian 666 Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.27 23:24:00 - [38] Originally by: Argenton Sayvers Why you can keep pushing your ISK farmer propaganda (ISK farmers hate GTC -> ISK because it totally destroyed their customer base - everyone who wants to buy ISK with $$$ just buys GTCs now, forcing them to slash prices and advertise offensively). In the end, moral trash is meaningless compared to one simple factor: Do you think CCP will willingly give up lots and lots of $$, a huge portion of their active subscriber base (maybe 50%, maybe a lot more are alt accounts fueled with GTC) to ISK farmer propaganda? You're right the price of website based isk has dropped dramatically meaning the isk farmers get less or have to run even more accounts. There's a lot of people blaming secure GTC because they are jealous and incapable of earning enough isk to not have to pay to play. So, meh. Basically whining and moaning in a thread doesn't do anything about the situation. Do what I do. Kill the isk farmers and disrupt their operations. We almost won. [ 2007.11.17 08:26:19 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 150mm Railgun II places an excellent hit on Shrike [EVOL]<BOB>(Avatar), inflicting 41.4 damage.
Malcanis High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.27 23:53:00 - [39] Originally by: Lazuran Originally by: Malcanis Man, you could be on to something there. Let's just make things we don't like illegal and then they will never occur ever again! BRILLIANT! How about we make GTC=>ISK trades legal and there will be no ISK sales spam ever again! Brilliant! Oh wait... My god, you could be right. All situations could be clearly resolved with one completely correct solution and one utterly wrong solution! BTW, 3 of my best friends in the game are reliant on buying GTCs for ISk to play. In fact my corp would be crippled if they couldn't play. Much as I don't like the idea of people effectively buying ISK, I like even less the idea of losing those 3. Given that people can and will buy ISK from eBay, etc, anyway, what would you suggest as a solution that still lets me have my friends in the game? CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.27 23:55:00 - [40] Originally by: Caine 607 Originally by: Lazuran Originally by: Malcanis Man, you could be on to something there. Let's just make things we don't like illegal and then they will never occur ever again! BRILLIANT! How about we make GTC=>ISK trades legal and there will be no ISK sales spam ever again! Brilliant! Oh wait... Hahaha... touche ! I'm with you on this Lazuran - get a job, pay your way and have your say ! Easy to say if you're not, as I assume, in a wheelchair. Possibly it's different in your country, but in mine, the disabled don't get munificent benefits, especially if they're unlucky enough to live in areas where there aren't enough jobs for the able-bodied. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Lazuran Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation	Posted - 2007.11.28 00:08:00 - [41] Originally by: Malcanis BTW, 3 of my best friends in the game are reliant on buying GTCs for ISk to play. In fact my corp would be crippled if they couldn't play. Oh noes, people who cannot pay for an MMOG can't play! As I have written further up: I'm sorry, but I don't care. If you cannot afford it, you should not play. Why should my game be crippled and skewed by ISK purchases just so your friends can play for free? I'm the paying customer. "...been designed for one purpose and one purpose only. Imagine a handful of repair drones pouring from the carebear's mouth. Now imagine they have um, nothing." -Unknown Hel redesigner (2007)
hydraSlav Synergy Evolved Daisho Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.28 00:10:00 - [42] Originally by: Setana Manoro Now, what about the other type of guy that gets affected ? EVE has a population average of 27yrs, that means usually ppl involved in a relation, with a career/job/family. Those ppl also do not have the time to make isk to play, because of their RL commitments. If selling GTC's becomes illegal, you are not just kicking me in the nuts, but also them, who are actually a big minority in eve. Yes, and thats exactly what's called RMT: buying ISK for cash. Some people buy ISK for cash (GTCs) because they, like you said, don't have time to be on par with others that spend hours mining... And others buy ***** Motherships and T2 BPOs with RL cash from a rich daddy!! Whatever the reason is: CCP's official position on RMT is that it is not allowed.... yet we all know that RMT is very strong in EVE atm with the bloody GTCs cause of people like you. I couldn't care less if you could transfer ISK directly to CCP for subscription (but of course, CCP won't make any money that way). What i do care about is people buying their way through the game with RL cash. What's your excuse again for all of this? Oh that's right: you don't have the RL cash to pay for the game. Well, guess what. I don't have piles of RL cash laying around to buy me in-game stuff either, to compete with ****s that buy ISK for cash. So who is the selfish sob here? == Above comments are my personal views Oveur >Local shouldn't be a tactical tool, it's for chat
Guillame Herschel Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.11.28 00:28:00 - [43] Originally by: Lazuran Oh noes, people who cannot pay for an MMOG can't play! As I have written further up: I'm sorry, but I don't care. If you cannot afford it, you should not play. But they can afford it, thanks to GTC sales. Your argument doesn't even exist. Quote: Why should my game be crippled and skewed by ISK purchases just so your friends can play for free? I'm the paying customer. So am I. Why do you think your game is crippled? Because you are comparing your status in game to those who sell GTC. So the same argument applies to you: if you can't pay, don't play! You think you deserve the same quality of gameplay I get, but you are not willing to buy and sell GTC like me. So take your own advice and STFU. -- Guile can always trump hardware --
Lazuran Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation	Posted - 2007.11.28 00:36:00 - [44] Originally by: Guillame Herschel So am I. Why do you think your game is crippled? Because you are comparing your status in game to those who sell GTC. So the same argument applies to you: if you can't pay, don't play! You think you deserve the same quality of gameplay I get, but you are not willing to buy and sell GTC like me. So take your own advice and STFU. Noone deserves to buy their way ahead in the game, not you and not me. When this is as commonplace as it sadly is, EVE is a RMT game like Second Life where clowns like you purchase genitals. ;-) "...been designed for one purpose and one purpose only. Imagine a handful of repair drones pouring from the carebear's mouth. Now imagine they have um, nothing." -Unknown Hel redesigner (2007)
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2007.11.28 00:39:00 - [45] Gads, a lot of whining and griping for nothing. Read the dev blogs from a few months ago. The plan is that CCP is going to allow players to buy time with ISK but only from them. GTCs will still be bought from external sources but cannot be traded for ISK and must actually be used for game time. Time-frame is of course unknown, but we all know CCP moves slowly on things. Originally by: CCP Chronotis Since this thread continues to fight against the people who derail it into the macro miners witchhunt. I will move it to features and ideas discussion where ...
Guillame Herschel Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.11.28 00:39:00 - [46] Originally by: Lazuran Noone deserves to buy their way ahead in the game, not you and not me. When this is as commonplace as it sadly is, EVE is a RMT game like Second Life where clowns like you purchase genitals. ;-) I already posted a thread about that, just this morning, in fact. Here EVE is that kind of game. Adapt or be unhappy. -- Guile can always trump hardware --
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2007.11.28 00:45:00 - [47] Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby Read the dev blogs from a few months ago. The plan is that CCP is going to allow players to buy time with ISK but only from them. GTCs will still be bought from external sources but cannot be traded for ISK and must actually be used for game time. Have you got a link because this sounds preposterous, a good portion of players will farm ISK just to pay for their subs with ISK and then CCP will lose a whole bunch of subs and GTC sales. And if they limit how many people can buy game time from them with ISK a lot of people will lose out and as they cant buy GTCs with ISK CCP will lose GTC sales. They would be slitting their own throats. And dont forget the problems it could cause with players using macros to farm ISK so they can buy game time from CCP plus the people who would buy ISK from ISK sellers to trade for GTCs from CCP. Originally by: Tortun Nahme CCP also condones thinking, I suggest you try it from tiem to time
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2007.11.28 01:04:00 - [48] Originally by: Paulo Damarr Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby Read the dev blogs from a few months ago. The plan is that CCP is going to allow players to buy time with ISK but only from them. GTCs will still be bought from external sources but cannot be traded for ISK and must actually be used for game time. Have you got a link because this sounds preposterous, a good portion of players will farm ISK just to pay for their subs with ISK and then CCP will lose a whole bunch of subs and GTC sales. And if they limit how many people can buy game time from them with ISK a lot of people will lose out and as they cant buy GTCs with ISK CCP will lose GTC sales. They would be slitting their own throats. And dont forget the problems it could cause with players using macros to farm ISK so they can buy game time from CCP plus the people who would buy ISK from ISK sellers to trade for GTCs from CCP. I think you mis-understand the intention behind it: Y1)ou can ONLY use ISK to buy time if you are going through CCP. 2)When you do it automatically withdraws the ISK and adds the time to your account; you NEVER see the actual time code. 3)CCP sets the price, no longer will you haggle for how much a GTC is "worth" in ISK. 4)GTCs can still be bought and used to pay for time 5)The secure site currently used to do the ISK<>GTC transaction will be shut down 6)ANY other method of transferring ISK for time will be disallowed. ISK sellers have no hold, they can only use external sites to sell you ISK and no GTC transactions. Players that sell GTCs for the ISK to fund their play time so they don't have to grind will now have to do their own work. Alliances that sell them by the dozens to fund their wars now have to do the work. Etc etc etc. I will try to dig up the post, it was some 4 months ago. No guarentees with how the search functions work Originally by: CCP Chronotis Since this thread continues to fight against the people who derail it into the macro miners witchhunt. I will move it to features and ideas discussion where ...
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.11.28 01:07:00 - [49] they have never said that it will happen and frankly you misunderstood HIM (and his mighty sig) "IF" ccp were to sell timecodes for isk no MONEY changes hands, and they cant pay for the hardware ect, the company goes belly up and we end up with an earth and beyond Originally by: Cecil Montague They should change that warning on entering low sec to: "Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
Lazuran Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation	Posted - 2007.11.28 01:12:00 - [50] Edited by: Lazuran on 28/11/2007 01:12:21 Originally by: Tortun Nahme they have never said that it will happen and frankly you misunderstood HIM (and his mighty sig) "IF" ccp were to sell timecodes for isk no MONEY changes hands, and they cant pay for the hardware ect, the company goes belly up and we end up with an earth and beyond Nonsense. People who want to pay ISK to buy game time can already do so, there's no reason why there should be more of those people if CCP sells the game time directly. "...been designed for one purpose and one purpose only. Imagine a handful of repair drones pouring from the carebear's mouth. Now imagine they have um, nothing." -Unknown Hel redesigner (2007)
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.11.28 01:16:00 - [51] when did I say there would be more of them? the simple fact is they would be "giving" away gametime for NOTHING which makes no sense as the system works now, someone is still paying for the time, and even if they removed the approved method there would still be people doing it, so why remove that safety net? Originally by: Cecil Montague They should change that warning on entering low sec to: "Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2007.11.28 01:18:00 - [52] Originally by: Lazuran Nonsense. People who want to pay ISK to buy game time can already do so, there's no reason why there should be more of those people if CCP sells the game time directly. Dude are you reading what your posting? if CCP implemented a system where every player could swap his/her ISK for game time from CCP you think people would continue to pay for their subscriptions? They might as well make EVE free to play. Ive seen some codswallop on the forums before but this takes the biscuit. Originally by: Tortun Nahme CCP also condones thinking, I suggest you try it from tiem to time
Malcanis High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.28 01:18:00 - [53] Originally by: Lazuran Originally by: Malcanis BTW, 3 of my best friends in the game are reliant on buying GTCs for ISk to play. In fact my corp would be crippled if they couldn't play. Oh noes, people who cannot pay for an MMOG can't play! As I have written further up: I'm sorry, but I don't care. If you cannot afford it, you should not play. Why should my game be crippled and skewed by ISK purchases just so your friends can play for free? I'm the paying customer. As I have written above, I'm sorry but I just don't care. Oh look, I have CCP on my side too! Oh dear, sucks to be you. Have fun losing I guess, since you certainly don't sound like you're winning. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.28 01:22:00 - [54] Originally by: Paulo Damarr Originally by: Lazuran Nonsense. People who want to pay ISK to buy game time can already do so, there's no reason why there should be more of those people if CCP sells the game time directly. Dude are you reading what your posting? if CCP implemented a system where every player could swap his/her ISK for game time from CCP you think people would continue to pay for their subscriptions? They might as well make EVE free to play. Ive seen some codswallop on the forums before but this takes the biscuit. I... Eh, what's the use. Nothing we can say to him will get through. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.11.28 01:23:00 - [55] we could call his mother a dirty pirate hooker! Originally by: Cecil Montague They should change that warning on entering low sec to: "Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
Lazuran Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation	Posted - 2007.11.28 01:24:00 - [56] Originally by: Paulo Damarr Originally by: Lazuran Nonsense. People who want to pay ISK to buy game time can already do so, there's no reason why there should be more of those people if CCP sells the game time directly. Dude are you reading what your posting? if CCP implemented a system where every player could swap his/her ISK for game time from CCP you think people would continue to pay for their subscriptions? Why is it so hard to understand? Nothing is keeping people from paying with ISK right now, there are always enough people selling GTCs they bought with daddy's VISA card. Sure, all players at the same time cannot pay with ISK right now, but this is not what keeps most people from doing so. Most EVE players have no problems paying their subscriptions (save some ISK farmers in poor 3rd world countries mostly), those who could but don't choose to are ingame rich people and people who do not value EVE enough I guess. "...been designed for one purpose and one purpose only. Imagine a handful of repair drones pouring from the carebear's mouth. Now imagine they have um, nothing." -Unknown Hel redesigner (2007)
Guillame Herschel Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.11.28 01:30:00 - [57] Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby Players that sell GTCs for the ISK to fund their play time so they don't have to grind will now have to do their own work. Nah, we'd just take over making the monthly payments on our favorite players ME datacore alt's account, and let him continue to farm and grind for us. That's essentially what we're doing now. There just no way CCP nor anyone else can MAKE any particular person grind if they don't want to. -- Guile can always trump hardware --
Malcanis High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.28 01:34:00 - [58] Originally by: Lazuran Originally by: Paulo Damarr Originally by: Lazuran Nonsense. People who want to pay ISK to buy game time can already do so, there's no reason why there should be more of those people if CCP sells the game time directly. Dude are you reading what your posting? if CCP implemented a system where every player could swap his/her ISK for game time from CCP you think people would continue to pay for their subscriptions? Why is it so hard to understand? Nothing is keeping people from paying with ISK right now, there are always enough people selling GTCs they bought with daddy's VISA card. Sure, all players at the same time cannot pay with ISK right now, but this is not what keeps most people from doing so. Most EVE players have no problems paying their subscriptions (save some ISK farmers in poor 3rd world countries mostly), those who could but don't choose to are ingame rich people and people who do not value EVE enough I guess. With the teeny tiny subtle difference that the actual game time is paid for by other players rather than being funded by CCP. Why on earth should CCP allow players to redeem ISK for game time? CCP do not want our ISK; ISK only has value to other players. Why would CCP give up real money to get ISK which they can spawn at will? In essence, GTC sales are nothing more than: Player A pays for player B to play the game in return for player B helping Player A in the game. CCP do not need Player B's help. Why should they let him play if he won't give them real money? Now if CCP introduced some kind of GTC exchange, where the Player Bs could buy time in day units for ISK that the Players A had put up for sale - GTC for ISK as a commodity, rather than a contract market then that might make sense. But I guess you'd hate that even worse than the current system. it would be suceptible to a number of... interpretations (eg: activate account for 1 day, change rank 8 skill, allow to lapse) CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Lazuran Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation	Posted - 2007.11.28 01:35:00 - [59] Originally by: Malcanis Oh look, I have CCP on my side too! Oh dear, sucks to be you. Have fun losing I guess, since you certainly don't sound like you're winning. Whatever you mean by "losing" and "winning" ... Have fun selling GTCs to ISK farmers to play "USD for epeens" online. People who want a challenge and not "who pays, wins" like me will move on sooner or later. "...been designed for one purpose and one purpose only. Imagine a handful of repair drones pouring from the carebear's mouth. Now imagine they have um, nothing." -Unknown Hel redesigner (2007)
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.11.28 01:39:00 - [60] sooner the better post your password and we can even cancel your account FOR you to save you the trouble Originally by: Cecil Montague They should change that warning on entering low sec to: "Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."

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