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Paulo Damarr
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Posted - 2007.11.28 01:45:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: Lazuran
People who want a challenge and not "who pays, wins" like me will move on sooner or later.
Your over reacting, if you dont want to trade GTCs for ISK you dont have to and it doesn't affect you except for your complaining about it. Your also in for a rude awakening as the trend for paying for extra game content is a growing one.
Check out XBox live they have "downloadables" where you buy Microsoft credits with real cash then trade these credits for game items. I played Chromehounds for 2 years and in the top end ultra competitive aspects of the game the top squads consisted of mechs almost entirely built with downloadables and it did suck a but having to buy the stuff to be competitive but if you weren't involved in the ultra competitive aspects it didn't affect anybody.
If CCP made it so you could buy ultra elite ships and items for RL cash that would probably wreck EVE I agree as that's a real unfair advantage, but selling a few GTCs doesn't hurt anyone and benefits the players and CCP.
Originally by: Tortun Nahme
CCP also condones thinking, I suggest you try it from tiem to time
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Malcanis
High4Life
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.28 01:47:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Lazuran
Originally by: Malcanis
Oh look, I have CCP on my side too! Oh dear, sucks to be you. Have fun losing I guess, since you certainly don't sound like you're winning.
Whatever you mean by "losing" and "winning" ... Have fun selling GTCs to ISK farmers to play "USD for epeens" online.
People who want a challenge and not "who pays, wins" like me will move on sooner or later.
I've never bought or sold a GTC in my life. As for wanting a challenge, perhaps you didn't read a damb thing I've posted, but a challenge is WHAT I want from EvE.
As I posted in the other thread that beat this dead horse, I don't really LIKE GTC sales, but I ACCEPT them as the least worst alternative. Additionally as I have played the game, I have come to realise that they really just don't matter all that much. I'm sure you think that 200M or 400M is a huge imbalancing amount of ISK, and that's really sweet, but the fact is that I've mined about 180M worth of ore while I've been whoruming, and I pulled in about 100M in ratting earlier. Frankly, I don't NEED to buy GTCs (what with being so elite and all).
So... what next? Ban people who have spare time to play more? An assiduous ISK maker can pull in a couple of billion ISk a week without much problem for sure. Thats, what? 5x 90-day GTCs. How many people do you think are actually spending $200/week on GTCs? Not many, I'll bet.
Can you produce any evidence that GTC sales are affecting YOUR game? At all?
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Aseite Lodis
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Posted - 2007.11.28 01:50:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Lazuran
Originally by: Malcanis
Man, you could be on to something there. Let's just make things we don't like illegal and then they will never occur ever again!
BRILLIANT!
How about we make GTC=>ISK trades legal and there will be no ISK sales spam ever again! Brilliant!
Oh wait...
you probably meant to say how about we make GTC=>ISK trade legal and let CCP gather more revenue from their game to hire more employees and more of quality employees to improve and develop the game for you, the player
the point of the allowing game time codes isn't to stop trial account bombarding our mailboxes with their friendship messages silly they will do that anyhow
all those of you who say get a job, pay for the game - just how am i going to get a job as a graduate student where my boss tells me that 60 hours a week is what he expects for a pay that puts me just above the poverty line? you want me to drop out of school? or not play this game in spare time just because it offends you somehow?
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Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.11.28 01:50:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Tortun Nahme
they have never said that it will happen and frankly you misunderstood HIM (and his mighty sig)
"IF" ccp were to sell timecodes for isk no MONEY changes hands, and they cant pay for the hardware ect, the company goes belly up and we end up with an earth and beyond
Perhaps you should read this thread:
ISK for GTCs for Cash Discussion
It was pretty plain what he intended. Whether it comes to pass or not is of course still up in the air, but he DID say it....
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Since this thread continues to fight against the people who derail it into the macro miners witchhunt. I will move it to features and ideas discussion where ...
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Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.11.28 01:55:00 -
[65]
You might want to train up reading comprehension "Third Party" means "not CCP"
as in the secure method used for GTC purchases from other players
Originally by: Cecil Montague
They should change that warning on entering low sec to:
"Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
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Lazuran
Gallente
Time And ISK Sink Corporation
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Posted - 2007.11.28 02:00:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Paulo Damarr
Originally by: Lazuran
People who want a challenge and not "who pays, wins" like me will move on sooner or later.
Your over reacting, if you dont want to trade GTCs for ISK you dont have to and it doesn't affect you except for your complaining about it.
I know several people who bought their Motherships with ISK they bought. It kills the fun of earning ingame ISK for me, ratting and missioning seems a pointless waste of time, even the free ISK I get from my R&D agents seems useless in comparison since it takes so long / so much effort to earn enough for a MS with expensive fittings that I simply won't bother (and yes, I could easily afford to dump 1000s of euros into a game, but it'd not only feel wrong, but also terribly stupid).
Quote:
Your also in for a rude awakening as the trend for paying for extra game content is a growing one.
Maybe, but EVE was a good game before the RMT became so widespread and I refuse to accept that it is by design such a bad game that it has to go the "boost your ego with your wallet online" and not the "try a fun and challenging game" route...
It seems that CCP has already chosen the former path (Ambulation), we'll see. Tabula Rasa was quite fun today (1st day). :-/
"...been designed for one purpose and one purpose only. Imagine a handful of repair drones pouring from the carebear's mouth. Now imagine they have um, nothing." -Unknown Hel redesigner (2007) |
Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.11.28 02:03:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Anaalys Fluuterby on 28/11/2007 02:04:30
Originally by: Tortun Nahme
You might want to train up reading comprehension "Third Party" means "not CCP"
as in the secure method used for GTC purchases from other players
lol, perhaps you should follow your own suggestion? Here, this might help:
Quote:
In the future, CCP will introduce a billing solution replacing the current system that allows the purchase of game time from third parties for in-game ISK. In essence, it will be possible for a time and ISK-rich, but financially challenged player to purchase game time directly from CCP. Game Time codes will still be available for purchase, but the trade of game time codes for ISK will no longer be an approved payment option.
I've highlighted the pertinent parts, like REPLACING and WILL NO LONGER 
Meaning you will no longer be able to do this through third parties, and no longer be able to convert GTCs to ISK.....
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Since this thread continues to fight against the people who derail it into the macro miners witchhunt. I will move it to features and ideas discussion where ...
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Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.11.28 02:06:00 -
[68]
you fail to notice that that thread PREDATES the secure method iirc
the secure method WAS the final solution
Originally by: Cecil Montague
They should change that warning on entering low sec to:
"Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
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Malcanis
High4Life
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.28 02:09:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Lazuran
Originally by: Paulo Damarr
Originally by: Lazuran
People who want a challenge and not "who pays, wins" like me will move on sooner or later.
Your over reacting, if you dont want to trade GTCs for ISK you dont have to and it doesn't affect you except for your complaining about it.
I know several people who bought their Motherships with ISK they bought. It kills the fun of earning ingame ISK for me, ratting and missioning seems a pointless waste of time, even the free ISK I get from my R&D agents seems useless in comparison since it takes so long / so much effort to earn enough for a MS with expensive fittings that I simply won't bother (and yes, I could easily afford to dump 1000s of euros into a game, but it'd not only feel wrong, but also terribly stupid).
Quote:
Your also in for a rude awakening as the trend for paying for extra game content is a growing one.
Maybe, but EVE was a good game before the RMT became so widespread and I refuse to accept that it is by design such a bad game that it has to go the "boost your ego with your wallet online" and not the "try a fun and challenging game" route...
It seems that CCP has already chosen the former path (Ambulation), we'll see. Tabula Rasa was quite fun today (1st day). :-/
So essentially, because some people you don't know and will likely never encounter are rumoured to have bought moms for money, EvE is ruined for you?
Did they buy those moms with GTC money? Hmmm 22B/400M = 55 x $40 GTCs. You're seriously telling me that several people in the game paid over $2000 to bu an internet spaceship?
If they didn't use GTC money, and there's no reason you've given me to suppose they have (a decent T2 BPO would buy 2 moms and you'd get change) but RMT ISK instead, then that's a completely seperate issue.
Oh yeah, one of the bob corps got hit with a 120Bn ISK corp theft. The guy that did that can buy a Titan AND a Mom And enough GTCs to play till he just doesn't care. You gonna quit over that too?
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Aseite Lodis
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Posted - 2007.11.28 02:29:00 -
[70]
I don't really see the reason we should stop with GTCs.
In efforts to make the game completely fair we should also force everyone to have 1 account that can only play a maximum of 2 hours each day. It is offensive to me that someone can hold 10 accounts while i only have 3 and that other people spend 50+ hours a week playing EVE while I cannot spend this much time. It completely ruins the game for me and utterly destroys the competitive spirit of EVE that some unemployed or retired person can metagame all week long and I cannot. Because it is really the ISK and the time he can spend on the game that counts towards how uber he is in EVE, not how he actually plays or how he chooses to spend his time and ISK playing. So because i have expressed my indignation over the matter, and I'm right because I know I am, all extra accounts people hold should be closed and any account should be shut down after 2 hours of playing for the next 22 hours (oh and screw CCP's revenue from these accounts, i don't care).
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Caine 607
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.11.28 03:50:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Caine 607 on 28/11/2007 03:54:32
Originally by: Malcanis
...Easy to say if you're not, as I assume, in a wheelchair. Possibly it's different in your country, but in mine, the disabled don't get munificent benefits, especially if they're unlucky enough to live in areas where there aren't enough jobs for the able-bodied.
Naturally, I sympathise with anyone who is apparently so poverty-stricken that they can't afford to participate in a subscription based game however I don't support the socialist ethos and where I come from, the buyer has the final say.
As so many enlightened contributors have already pointed out on this thread, CCP doesn't want ISK since its empoyees can't pay for their weekly groceries with in-game currency so instead they rely on paying subscribers to support their non-paying counterparts whose only justification as far as I can see is that it somehow compensates for the hours of gameplay time they lost out on by pursuing constructive alternatives in the real-world so it's no wonder then just how defensive this particular demographic becomes when the subject of GTC's and its ethical ambiguity is raised.
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Estephania
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Posted - 2007.11.28 08:26:00 -
[72]
It's surprising to see how many ppl are for this "pay to win" strategy in Eve. ISK is the "I win" button in Eve and you can stop giving examples of unskilled n00bs buying faction-fitted battleships and losing them to the 1-st low sec camp. Many RMT players are very skilled and will not lose their ships that easily. In any case, may be loads of RMT ISK will not save you in one specific fight, but strategically they place you in a winning position.
It is getting more and more difficult for the "normal" players to compete with 2 opposite sides of the spectrum that seem to complement each other. On the one side we have unemployed and students who burn 100 of hours per week in the game instead of studying or looking for a job, on the other hand we have RL rich overachievers who refuse to play the game as it was supposed to be played and buy everything with their RL cash. It seems we have a very good community forging here There only can be one outcome: Eve will lose it's appeal towards anyone but ppl who can play 100 h/week or those who play with their credit card. Everyone else will have no hope of competing with those 2 groups.
Like in any other MMORPG, in Eve RMT destroys the game. With GTC limitation in place, it will probably take more time for Eve to be destroyed by RMT, but it will happen eventually, because from the players' point of view it is absolutely unimportant who gets the cash, be it Chinese sweatshop owner or CCP, because the result is the same - someone is competing using out of game resources.
With RMT all that talk about "harsh and unforgiving world" is being thrown out of the window. If you are playing without RMT, losing a fight means something. But for RMT crowd it doesn't mean a thing. They just reach for their credit card and undock in a new ship like nothing happened.
Eve is a PvP and a competitive game, everything one group of players does, affects other groups. There's constant unrest at mission-runners and their easy ISK. But if the said runers don't even PvP how can they affect PvPers? They can, because everyone influences the economy. The same is true about RMT guys. The can use their unlimited buying power and influence the economy. Some can argue that ISK is not produced from the thin air in GTC business. No, it is not, but extreme concentration and unlimited buying power do influence the economy for everyone else.
In the coclusion I think it's a good place to repeat a sentence that reflects in the best way the effect GTCs have on Eve world:
Eve was a harsh and unforgiving world, until GTCs were introduced to gimp that concept completely.
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Sicil Fioet
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.11.28 09:31:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Estephania
With RMT all that talk about "harsh and unforgiving world" is being thrown out of the window. If you are playing without RMT, losing a fight means something. But for RMT crowd it doesn't mean a thing. They just reach for their credit card and undock in a new ship like nothing happened.
losing $20-100 every time your ship goes down still has gotta hurt 
there's probably a very small percentage of people who truly have "unlimited buying power"
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Lazuran
Gallente
Time And ISK Sink Corporation
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Posted - 2007.11.28 09:57:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Malcanis
So essentially, because some people you don't know and will likely never encounter are rumoured to have bought moms for money, EvE is ruined for you?
Reading comprehension ftw. I *know* they did.
Quote:
Did they buy those moms with GTC money? Hmmm 22B/400M = 55 x $40 GTCs. You're seriously telling me that several people in the game paid over $2000 to bu an internet spaceship?
Yes, and if you looked at the GTC sales more often, you would know that it happens. look at this e.g.
It's not hard to inform yourself a bit before you participate in a discussion and make yourself look completely ignorant.
"...been designed for one purpose and one purpose only. Imagine a handful of repair drones pouring from the carebear's mouth. Now imagine they have um, nothing." -Unknown Hel redesigner (2007) |
Steve Hawkings
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Posted - 2007.11.28 10:09:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Steve Hawkings on 28/11/2007 10:10:41
Edited by: Steve Hawkings on 28/11/2007 10:10:17
Quote:
people playing for free and causing lag for those of us who pay
Stopped reading here, what a load of crap,
do you also realise that those who pay also cause lag to those who dont.
And if idiots want to spend ú2000 on a loads of pixels then let them, its their loss, it doesnt even affect you.
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Estephania
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Posted - 2007.11.28 11:47:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Steve Hawkings
Edited by: Steve Hawkings on 28/11/2007 10:10:41
Edited by: Steve Hawkings on 28/11/2007 10:10:17
Quote:
people playing for free and causing lag for those of us who pay
Stopped reading here, what a load of crap,
do you also realise that those who pay also cause lag to those who dont.
And if idiots want to spend ú2000 on a loads of pixels then let them, its their loss, it doesnt even affect you.
It does when they kill your load of pixels with their load of pixels.
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