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Siri Blue Gallente Arachnea Phoenix Battalion Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.27 21:58:00 - [1] Greetings! Since Inventing Ships did not turn out to be as profitable as I hoped it to be...I now have a character that is able to build a lot of T2 ships...but lacks the prints to do so cause its just not profitable enough to invent most of em ;) And since I don't like wasting things...especially not skills...I decided it'd be a good choice to buy some T2 ship BPOs and start producing T2 ships for a profit... I know of a few t2 prints for sale or possibly for sale atm and I have a few T2 part suppliers standing by as well... So the only thing missing right now is enough ISK to actually buy the BPOs ;) And this is where YOU come into play... I did some calculations and I can guarantee a 4% monthly profits return on this investment, possibly even more... 20% of any excess profits will be handed out on top of the 4%, the other 80% will be used for reinvestment. I will be invested in this operation with a 22 million SP Indutrial/Science Empire Carebear Character and about 35 Billion ISK in assets (pre-bought build parts, T1 BPOs, Minerals, ships, etc.etc.) and liquid cash... As a first step I was considering to raise the funds by 200% or 70 Billion ISK... Each bond will cost 1 million ISK so there will be 70 000 Bonds for sale... With the BPOs that could be acquired a monthy profits return of 4% can be pretty much guranteed (worst case scenario calculations)... Starting the operation 1st of December the first return payments would be done 1st of January (or second for 1st is a holiday :D) If there are any questions...post here ( please don't troll with "scam" "scam" stuff, I've been playing for 2 years now and always lived up to all my business deals) If needed I can also provide a linky to one of my previous events I did...let me check where it is :D http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=491435 Here we go...had a lot of prizes in it and I gave em all out again :) Post questions and orders here please :)
Yarden Tajj Lost Industries Capital Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.27 22:53:00 - [2] Hi Siri you might want to start this IPO / Bond Investment in the Market Discusion section. I for one would like to know the following: - What BPO's did you have in mind (any particular ships?) - How long would this run for? - Buy back option and if so after what time and for how many percent of the original bond price Most IPO's aim for about 6.5 to 7% return every month do you think this would be achievable with yours?
Siri Blue Gallente Arachnea Phoenix Battalion Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.27 23:27:00 - [3] Edited by: Siri Blue on 27/11/2007 23:30:06 Originally by: Yarden Tajj I for one would like to know the following: - What BPO's did you have in mind (any particular ships?) As I am a strong supporter of the Gallente Federation, I'd concentrate on Gallente ship BPOs... Originally by: Yarden Tajj - How long would this run for? Many years I hope ;) I'm here to stay in the game... Originally by: Yarden Tajj - Buy back option and if so after what time and for how many percent of the original bond price As for buyback options... After two years the buyback would be 100% or original price...if you want to sell the bonds earlier, you'd have to find another buyer or talk to me about it... After one year (the return has been 48%, 60% if you reinvested the money) I would offer a buyback option at 75% of original price... So basically this is supposed to last at least 2 years... But you can pull out after one year with profit still but largely reduced... (only 23%/35% if you pull out early) I might offer other deals should my cashflow go up faster than expected though... Originally by: Yarden Tajj Most IPO's aim for about 6.5 to 7% return every month do you think this would be achievable with yours? I plan to reinvest 80% of the surplus profits into more BPOs...so at first the return per month will probably hover around 4 to 5 % but the actual value of the bonds will go up (and thus the buyback options as the reinvestment will be counted on the existing bonds) meaning the base value of the bonds will go up concerning the buyback options after 1 and 2 years... I hope I wasn't too confusing there lol
Yarden Tajj Lost Industries Capital Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.27 23:52:00 - [4] Currently it's unknown what's going to happen with T2 BPO's as CCP envisions every T2 ship to be made through invention. Also a couple of changes will be made to the current invention model - as in smaller ships will be easier to invent to the bigger ones. Which could either boost your profits or deminish them. That being said a 2 year timespan is a LONG time which holds a LOT of things we cannot forsee. Also will there be any security for the investors?
Shuan Jedai Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.11.28 00:12:00 - [5] Firstly, what is the point in investing this for 4% return, with the first buy back a year ahead of us ? You can get 10% monthly return in Fury Bank and be able to cash out within a week ?
Siri Blue Gallente Arachnea Phoenix Battalion Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.28 00:13:00 - [6] Hm, well...as I understood it CCP won't touch T2 BPOs... They do screw around with Invention though, yes... As the BPOs have a better material level than any invented ships though there always is a profit span there on the BPOs...so I'm not too worried about that... As a security...well, I'll be invested with a lot of assets and ISK as well (as I also want to make a profit) so that should ensure that I'll make the best out of the invested money...and should I have to disband the operation early (can't think of a reason atm)...the T2 BPOs are there as a security, selling them and paying out the iskies...
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.28 00:13:00 - [7] Ok this needs to be in the MD forums. I see about 3000 issues I have with it so please go there so I can address them. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Siri Blue Gallente Arachnea Phoenix Battalion Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.28 00:19:00 - [8] Originally by: Shuan Jedai Firstly, what is the point in investing this for 4% return, with the first buy back a year ahead of us ? You can get 10% monthly return in Fury Bank and be able to cash out within a week ? Can that Fury Bank of yours pay out EVERYONE that invested in them within a week? I somehow doubt it... And 4% return is the worst case scenario of dropping ship prices and rising building costs! If everything goes well 7-10% will be easily archievable...I just did not want to make potenitally false claims and be called a scammer later!
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.28 00:25:00 - [9] Originally by: Siri Blue Can that Fury Bank of yours pay out EVERYONE that invested in them within a week? I somehow doubt it... Not sure why you would say that unless you can. Either way you haven't said in your business plan that you would allow a buyback until after 1-2 years. I assure you FuryBank would be able to allow you to pull out far faster than your operation could, and if not come to EBANK. As founder of EBANK, we offer a 3% interest rate to customers, the ability to transfer between accounts (to other EBANK customers even whne out of game), loans, completely automated systems etc. www.eve-bank.net You are asking for a huge amount of money with zero market history (sure, I have heard your name before but you haven't run any public corps handling other peoples isk that I am aware of, and frankly your business plan needs a makeover) Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Siri Blue Gallente Arachnea Phoenix Battalion Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.28 00:28:00 - [10] Um...I don't want to sound rude but it'd be nice if you wouldn't advertise your own business in someone else's thread
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.28 00:59:00 - [11] Sorry, will edit it out But I strongly recommend you move things over to the MD forum. We aren't allowed to discuss things here and I feel there is a lot that needs discussing. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Calgorac The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.11.28 01:03:00 - [12] hmm, cant say that I'll buy your shares under your current business plan... if you would like to see what a real bond issue should look like come check out mine Latest News
Siri Blue Gallente Arachnea Phoenix Battalion Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.28 02:00:00 - [13] Hm...I didn't expect this kind of hostility...
Yarden Tajj Lost Industries Capital Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.28 02:02:00 - [14] it's not hostility it's ppl asking questions. Did you really expect that ppl would throw 70b your way without asking questions and rate your plans?
Siri Blue Gallente Arachnea Phoenix Battalion Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.28 02:07:00 - [15] Of course, and I'm here to answer most of them
Newbear	Posted - 2007.11.28 14:22:00 - [16] FONDS! I don't care what your selling but I want to buy FONDS! A bundle of FONDS, a flock of FONDS, lets be FONDS! Click here for my High Security POS Service
Siri Blue Gallente Arachnea Phoenix Battalion Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.28 15:30:00 - [17] Originally by: Newbear FONDS! I don't care what your selling but I want to buy FONDS! A bundle of FONDS, a flock of FONDS, lets be FONDS! Um...yeah....

ISD BH Kreul Intentions ISD BH	Posted - 2007.11.28 16:37:00 - [18] Moving this to the market discussion forums. You are more then welcome to repost the sale of your shares back in the sell forum and have a thread dedicated to that. Thank you. forum rules \| [email protected]

Munafo Actica	Posted - 2007.11.28 16:58:00 - [19] Wow 70 billion ISK! I only wanted to secure loans of between 5-8 billion ISK but thought even that was being cheeky for someone relatively unknown.
Siri Blue Gallente Arachnea Phoenix Battalion Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.28 17:10:00 - [20] Originally by: Munafo Actica Wow 70 billion ISK! I only wanted to secure loans of between 5-8 billion ISK but thought even that was being cheeky for someone relatively unknown. Well if you look up my standings you will see that I've been a busy busy carebear both in empire and 0.0... Which means I don't need any loans to raise 5-8 bil ISK, I can make that myself pretty fast... I wanted to aim one dimension higher...so I do...
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2007.11.28 17:12:00 - [21] Originally by: Munafo Actica Wow 70 billion ISK! I only wanted to secure loans of between 5-8 billion ISK but thought even that was being cheeky for someone relatively unknown. I know Siri, I like Siri, and I would trust Siri. But my confidence in Siri would not go as far as 10b+. Also I would probably like it if Siri took some time out to work out the details more thoroughly, if only for community confidence, so that many questions would be answered upfront. Still like Siri though. Taikun's Lost Bet
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2007.11.28 17:13:00 - [22] Originally by: Shar Tegral I know Siri, I like Siri, and I would trust Siri. But my confidence in Siri would not go as far as 10b+. And to clarify, (I hate editing my posts), I would trust Siri with 20b or more but I would not endorse Siri's Ipo beyond 10b+ in the current state of offering. Taikun's Lost Bet
Morning Maniac Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.11.28 17:14:00 - [23] Siri, I'm willing to invest some isk into your plan to support your initiative. Good luck! MM http://eve-ivy.com EVE University commercial
Siri Blue Gallente Arachnea Phoenix Battalion Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.28 17:14:00 - [24] Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: Munafo Actica Wow 70 billion ISK! I only wanted to secure loans of between 5-8 billion ISK but thought even that was being cheeky for someone relatively unknown. I know Siri, I like Siri, and I would trust Siri. But my confidence in Siri would not go as far as 10b+. Also I would probably like it if Siri took some time out to work out the details more thoroughly, if only for community confidence, so that many questions would be answered upfront. Still like Siri though. I know this needs fine tuning...and you are welcome to give me advice how to make it look better and thorough... I don't have much time today...but will definitely work more on it the next days ;)
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.11.28 17:21:00 - [25] Where to begin... You say you guarantee 4% per month. This is tiny, as you should know. You then pay out 20% of profits you make. Lets analyze this 20% number. T2 BPO's generally sell for 12 months of production value. This means you, in theory, will make 100% profit over 12 months. This is 8.33% per month. 20% of this is 1.666%. This would make 5.666% per month. If you do indeed run for 2 years then the T2 BPO profit doubles effectively to 3.332%, bringing the total to 7.332%. Of course this is all theoretical numbers, prices could go up/down, you could get them cheaper, invention could really hurt T2 production more after patch or it could effect it less. We also have to decide if this reward is worth the risk. 70 billion is a TON of money to trust to someone who has never run an IPO and does not have a major presence or reputation on these forums. Then add in the lack of payback for a year which would only be 70% anyways. You need to clear up what that 80% of profits will be used for. Is it going to be held by the corp and still belong to the corp (thus increasing share price) to handle buybacks or are you pocketing it so you can buy back shares if needed and if not needed you'll use it for your own purposes? It might be a decent enough IPO for a well respected/trusted person to release, tho the buyback is just bad as it is now. I think if Ricdic, Shar, DS, or many others here posted this exact thing it would get some heat... but people would trust them enough that they'd prob go for it in a very slightly changed form. You'll have to work a bit harder imo. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.28 17:23:00 - [26] Edited by: Kazuo Ishiguro on 28/11/2007 17:24:31 You're not going to get many investors until you convince people that you can give them 7% per month or better, otherwise they're effectively giving you free isk to the tune of 3% per month. You've said that the figures you've got are assuming the worst-case scenario - what are your optimal and mid-range estimates? Would you be prepared to lock down the BPOs in a corp where only a trusted third party had the necessary access to remove them? (this would involve creating a separate corp to issue shares). Ideally, the trusted third party would receive all the isk raised from share purchases and use it to buy the BPOs and would also remain in the corp so as to be able to reimburse shareholders in the event of a bus splat or similar. How would you transport the BPOs to the production site? Can you offer any security in the event of the BPOs being converted to max run BPCs, or removed, or made redundant via further improvements to invention? Most ship BPOs in particular are going to become a lot less profitable with Trinity, because inventors' costs will fall (due to the improved decryptor stats). Have you considered this in your calculations? My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2007.11.28 19:45:00 - [27] The above two posters are making some damn good points for you to consider. Another that I think you need to consider is the amount of time and effort you might be taking on. Ideally I'd recommend a multi-phase process if I were you. Start off with 1 t2 bpo for production. Get a true feel for what time is going to take and what sales throughput you will get. You have to realize there is.... hmmmmm, like 30 t2 bpo's for each item? (I really don't remember atm.) Now, a number of t2 bpo owners are just collectors and not really market manufacturers. (Even if it is just for internal corp/ally use I don't consider them market producers... even if it does decrease demand some.) That's alot of competition. Then enter in every Tom, Dick, and Harry trying to invent and you've got a lot of downward pressure. Of course this doesn't also consider the upcoming changes with the Trinity release next week. I'd also go into greater detail on ideas on how to make this work but I'd rather save it for somewhere not so public. I really hate disclosing my ideas where they can be bogarted so quickly. And around here, stating that you think the sky might be blue can cause instant speculation on sunglasses. However the ideas range from the aforementioned multi-phase ramp up method; to a smaller almost totally private avenue; and the "insulated" (or incubated) method where it is not your reputation that anchors the venture. The whole question still revolves around how well do you know what you are getting yourself into and what burdens or sacrifices you are willing to make/accept. Taikun's Lost Bet
Dr Slurm General Commodities	Posted - 2007.11.28 22:20:00 - [28] Should be interesting to see where this leads. I like that Shar is providing a reference. It's better then Quafe!
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2007.11.28 22:39:00 - [29] Originally by: Dr Slurm Should be interesting to see where this leads. I like that Shar is providing a reference. I would like to give a more solid reference to Siri but the truth is that my business dealings with Siri have been a whopping zero. That being said, I met Siri being a helpful soul in the Eve Uni channel (which I used to lurk and still join just for a second to invite newbies into) and like I said, "I like Siri". And I have to say it is not from Social Engineering just from the fact that I watch and weigh the actions of people I see. This is one of those grey areas that having some credibility makes. Very frustrating actually as I don't want to make Siri feel bad for me stepping away from standing up for him/her but in equal measure I don't want anyone ready to jump at this ipo because I wish to support someone I like. I hope my explaining the crux of my dilemma is disclosure enough to keep people objective in viewing Siri. But, the best recommendation I could give is, "I'd be proud to have Siri as a corpie." Taikun's Lost Bet
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.11.28 22:47:00 - [30] Just because you're selling "bonds" and not "shares" does not mean that you are immune to questioning. You are going to need to present a full, detailed business plan, and a good explanation of why we should trust you and what all the money will be used for, specifically. 23 Member EVE Video makers: save bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! (updated)

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