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Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
3042
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 15:04:00 -
[31] - Quote
For those of you who dont know what the "wall of death" syndome is let me explain quickly..
There is a culture of some griefer vets that dont want new players in low at all so they spin these horrible tales how new players are going to die soon as they jump out of a high sec into low sec system.
Once upon a time this used to be nearly true gate camps galore everywhere, however since all the major disengagement nerfs they waned quite a bit but still can happen ever so often despite others best efforts. To a noob it only takes 3 hostile ships to make it feel like a wall of death.
Either way these 'vets' no matter what thier background seem to hell bent on advocating that low sec is a place for nobody and that idea is shared amongst the noobs and nearly taken to heart. Especially if thier first attempt into low is victimized.
Culturally this will be nearly hard to remove especially if the turth of it can still exist, however ingame its possible to put in mechancis that slowly start getting rid of this culture and dismisses the idea the wall of death exists. For example presence of much weaker faction police at gates in low may help curb gate camps much more forcing the fights to happen in deep or riod belts and factional warfaring all of low sec may be also another good idea creating the need to raid neighbors, repel 'intruders', and increase perceived safety.
This 'wall of death' syndome is one reason why I think high sec ganking from individuals is at an all time high, nobody goes to low anymore to die becuase of the damage this culture done by the bitter vets and the idiot predators there killing all the quarry starving themselves.
Op is a victim of such I bet, probably ran into one of these walls that had a super in it.
And yes my killboard is pathetic but I learned my lessons and majority of those kills are... well... predetermined in that no matter how I fitted it back then wouldnt have changed the results at all, Im not bitter about those its war after all.
1 million isk to the pilot that finds my horrible thorax killmail with a mining laser :P. I think it happened near dodixie.
|

Lord Xyr'dan
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 15:09:00 -
[32] - Quote
Aiwha wrote:Lord Xyr'dan wrote:So no one has managed to tell me why Supercaps operating in lowsec is a good idea or why we need it.
"You were in hotdrop territory." EVERTYTHING is hot drop territory thats the problem. So this pathetic mining allaince in low sec will have its POS always there because no one can smash it fo fear of being hot dropped?
How is this good for low sec and good for EVE? Supercaps already have ruined null sec but fine leave them there. Low sec should be an intermediate area where these things cannot be used only moved through.
Please someone give a GOOD reason for supercaps to operate in low sec. There is none. To teach stupid capital pilots lessons? (I love how you call a corp "pathetic" in this thread of all places, I've seen these km's and oh my.... DAT RAVEN FIT)
Why are we "stupid capital pilots"?
Because we are trying to take out the POS of a pacifist mining corp?
So you gotta be in a 1000 man alliance to field caps in battle I guess?
There is no medium in between high sec and null? |

Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
3042
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 15:11:00 -
[33] - Quote
Lord Xyr'dan wrote:Aiwha wrote:Lord Xyr'dan wrote:So no one has managed to tell me why Supercaps operating in lowsec is a good idea or why we need it.
"You were in hotdrop territory." EVERTYTHING is hot drop territory thats the problem. So this pathetic mining allaince in low sec will have its POS always there because no one can smash it fo fear of being hot dropped?
How is this good for low sec and good for EVE? Supercaps already have ruined null sec but fine leave them there. Low sec should be an intermediate area where these things cannot be used only moved through.
Please someone give a GOOD reason for supercaps to operate in low sec. There is none. To teach stupid capital pilots lessons? (I love how you call a corp "pathetic" in this thread of all places, I've seen these km's and oh my.... DAT RAVEN FIT) Why are we "stupid capital pilots"? Because we are trying to take out the POS of a pacifist mining corp? So you gotta be in a 1000 man alliance to field caps in battle I guess? There is no medium in between high sec and null?
Nope.
|

Lord Xyr'dan
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 15:13:00 -
[34] - Quote
Nova what is the No in reference to? By the tone of your other posts i am thinking you are saying no to the last question. |

Smodab Ongalot
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
69
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 15:19:00 -
[35] - Quote
While the OP did fail, he sort of has a point.
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Lord Xyr'dan
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 15:19:00 -
[36] - Quote
Nova Fox wrote: Op is a victim of such I bet, probably ran into one of these walls that had a super in it.
And yes my killboard is pathetic but I learned my lessons and majority of those kills are... well... predetermined in that no matter how I fitted it back then wouldnt have changed the results at all.
Yes and no Nova. We live in low sec, we kill plenty of pirates in low sec. We are good PvPers. We don't have a ton of capital experiance and have gotten hotdropped by RANDOM passing alts of null sec alliance as we bash a POS of some nobody corp. This is now two for two. Lost caps in both engagements.
What I am saying is I am a "medium player"
in comparison to the richest people of EVE, I have a "medium income"
in comparison to the best PvPers out there I have a "medium killboard"
in comparison to null sec blobs we run in "medium sized gangs"
So we live in low sec which is the medium between the high sec and the null sec.
But then these supers come in and screw it all up. They belong in hardcore EVE land AKA null. Where you can have hardcore Tech moon incomes and hardcore 1000 man fleet battles using your hardcore 30-60 billion ISK supers. |

Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
3042
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 15:22:00 -
[37] - Quote
I guess I am considered extremly poor then. My character is more expensive than my wallets according to auditors.
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Smodab Ongalot
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
69
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 15:25:00 -
[38] - Quote
Lord Xyr'dan wrote: But then these supers come in and screw it all up. They belong in hardcore EVE land AKA null. Where you can have hardcore Tech moon incomes and hardcore 1000 man fleet battles using your hardcore 30-60 billion ISK supers.
See, the problem here is that what you have stated is not a fact, but a matter of opinion.
I think we can agree that low-sec should be an area for small-medium sized groups of people doing their thing, and that null-sec is the place for large empire building groups to do their thing.
But that is a completely different matter than whether supers should be allowed to be offensive in low-sec or not.
In a fictional ideal world, only the small to medium sized groups living low-sec could use them in low-sec, but not the huge null sec alliances. But, that is completely unworkable, so obviously not a solution.
I guess what I'm saying is, if that super was just 1 super, you should have been able to either GTFO or kill it. So in that regard, you guys failed for loosing your caps.
But in reality, there were probably more supers waiting from wherever that one jumped from, waiting for him to call for help. Hell, maybe he was even bait for an escalation.
So yea, it sucks, but not a whole lot that can be done about it. I guess, you will have to , well, adapt or something.
edit:
Since you will inevitably ask how you could have done better, let me help. 1) Bring in a carrier at range and try to save the dread. Probably a bad idea, since WN. super prolly has friends. 2) Bring in logistics ships and try to keep the dread alive. You had 3 bs pilots, they should have logistics ships nearby, surely. Or you could carrier them over to a station, etc. 3) Bring a bumping ship. Maybe something with an oversized AB. Bump your dread the **** out of the way. 4) Don't leave your darn cyno up after cynoing in. Use something cheap and blow it up afterwards. No need for you to put a big bright spot on the map showing you had 1 up. You do know that solar system map shows active cyno's, right? If had a super and was bored, I would look for all the stationless systems with cynos up. |

March rabbit
Ganse Shadow of xXDEATHXx
120
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 15:28:00 -
[39] - Quote
Lord Xyr'dan wrote:No it isn't. A Nyx will be fit with Officer stuff and we had 3 BSes. The BSes werent even ready to come in yet as the dreads were still incapping the POS guns and ECM batteries etc. you were working on POS modules with 2 dreadnoughts WITHOUT ANY SUPPORT???? 
i thought dreads can only be used AFTER POS lost it's defences..... 
|

Smodab Ongalot
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
69
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 15:30:00 -
[40] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Lord Xyr'dan wrote:No it isn't. A Nyx will be fit with Officer stuff and we had 3 BSes. The BSes werent even ready to come in yet as the dreads were still incapping the POS guns and ECM batteries etc. you were working on POS modules with 2 dreadnoughts WITHOUT ANY SUPPORT????  i thought dreads can only be used AFTER POS lost it's defences..... 
Back under your bridge you. |

Aiwha
101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda
121
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 15:30:00 -
[41] - Quote
Lord Xyr'dan wrote:Aiwha wrote:Lord Xyr'dan wrote:So no one has managed to tell me why Supercaps operating in lowsec is a good idea or why we need it.
"You were in hotdrop territory." EVERTYTHING is hot drop territory thats the problem. So this pathetic mining allaince in low sec will have its POS always there because no one can smash it fo fear of being hot dropped?
How is this good for low sec and good for EVE? Supercaps already have ruined null sec but fine leave them there. Low sec should be an intermediate area where these things cannot be used only moved through.
Please someone give a GOOD reason for supercaps to operate in low sec. There is none. To teach stupid capital pilots lessons? (I love how you call a corp "pathetic" in this thread of all places, I've seen these km's and oh my.... DAT RAVEN FIT) Why are we "stupid capital pilots"? Because we are trying to take out the POS of a pacifist mining corp? So you gotta be in a 1000 man alliance to field caps in battle I guess? There is no medium in between high sec and null?
Pretty much. You can't park two dreads on a POS and expect everybody to sit on their hands. You made a stupid decision and paid for it in full. I expect next time you'll be a little more cautious when waving your capital epeens around. Regards,
LCpl. Aiwha-á Senior Recruiter |

Lord Xyr'dan
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 15:41:00 -
[42] - Quote
Smodab Ongalot wrote:Lord Xyr'dan wrote: But then these supers come in and screw it all up. They belong in hardcore EVE land AKA null. Where you can have hardcore Tech moon incomes and hardcore 1000 man fleet battles using your hardcore 30-60 billion ISK supers.
See, the problem here is that what you have stated is not a fact, but a matter of opinion. I think we can agree that low-sec should be an area for small-medium sized groups of people doing their thing, and that null-sec is the place for large empire building groups to do their thing. But that is a completely different matter than whether supers should be allowed to be offensive in low-sec or not. In a fictional ideal world, only the small to medium sized groups living low-sec could use them in low-sec, but not the huge null sec alliances. But, that is completely unworkable, so obviously not a solution. I guess what I'm saying is, if that super was just 1 super, you should have been able to either GTFO or kill it. So in that regard, you guys failed for loosing your caps. But in reality, there were probably more supers waiting from wherever that one jumped from, waiting for him to call for help. Hell, maybe he was even bait for an escalation. So yea, it sucks, but not a whole lot that can be done about it. I guess, you will have to , well, adapt or something. edit: Since you will inevitably ask how you could have done better, let me help. 1) Bring in a carrier at range and try to save the dread. Probably a bad idea, since WN. super prolly has friends. 2) Bring in logistics ships and try to keep the dread alive. You had 3 bs pilots, they should have logistics ships nearby, surely. Or you could carrier them over to a station, etc. 3) Bring a bumping ship. Maybe something with an oversized AB. Bump your dread the **** out of the way. 4) Don't leave your darn cyno up after cynoing in. Use something cheap and blow it up afterwards. No need for you to put a big bright spot on the map showing you had 1 up. You do know that solar system map shows active cyno's, right? If had a super and was bored, I would look for all the stationless systems with cynos up.
Yeah so one guy in this thread said for me to stay in siege and tank the Nyx. Why? I'll enentually run out of stront or he will bring in friends.
Yeah he probably did have mroe supers ready to drop so i could have done nothing.
The BSes were lost trying to take out the FB from the Nyx to save the caps. They managed to Save the Moros. The Rev ALMOST got out of the Nyx's point range before it popped. He was at 31 km trying to get out of the faction/officer point range. I did chat with the Super pilot a bit afterwards. He told me he had two points and he went for the Raven and dropped point on the Moros.
I had a GTFO cyno ready once the dreads came out of siege. Thats how the Moros got out. The cyno we lit to bring in the dreads was long gone. We had been working on the POS modules for a few loads of stront by then. |

Lord Xyr'dan
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 15:42:00 -
[43] - Quote
Aiwha wrote:Lord Xyr'dan wrote:
Why are we "stupid capital pilots"?
Because we are trying to take out the POS of a pacifist mining corp?
So you gotta be in a 1000 man alliance to field caps in battle I guess?
There is no medium in between high sec and null?
Pretty much. You can't park two dreads on a POS and expect everybody to sit on their hands. You made a stupid decision and paid for it in full. I expect next time you'll be a little more cautious when waving your capital epeens around.
So I guess your answer IS YES WE HAVE TO BE IN A 1000 MAN ALLIANCE TO FIELD CAPS.
Thank you for clarifying. |

flakeys
Arkham Innovations
203
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 15:43:00 -
[44] - Quote
Lord Xyr'dan wrote:. So this pathetic mining allaince in low sec will have its POS always there because no one can smash it fo fear of being hot dropped?
.
That pathetic mining alliance took a risk placing it's pos there .They knew it could get killed yet did place it there not afraid to risk a loss .
You can learn a LOT from that pathetic mining alliance. |

Aiwha
101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda
121
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 15:48:00 -
[45] - Quote
Lord Xyr'dan wrote:Aiwha wrote:Lord Xyr'dan wrote:
Why are we "stupid capital pilots"?
Because we are trying to take out the POS of a pacifist mining corp?
So you gotta be in a 1000 man alliance to field caps in battle I guess?
There is no medium in between high sec and null?
Pretty much. You can't park two dreads on a POS and expect everybody to sit on their hands. You made a stupid decision and paid for it in full. I expect next time you'll be a little more cautious when waving your capital epeens around. So I guess your answer IS YES WE HAVE TO BE IN A 1000 MAN ALLIANCE TO FIELD CAPS. Thank you for clarifying.
No, you just have to be in a 1000 man alliance to field caps with the maximum amount of security. You can do anything you want with your capital ships, but you run great risks doing so. Regards,
LCpl. Aiwha-á Senior Recruiter |

OmniBeton
OmniBeton Metatech
4
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 15:48:00 -
[46] - Quote
Lord Xyr'dan wrote:Make Supers have NO offensive ability in low sec.
They can move through to travel, but they are for SOV HOLDING ALLIANCES!! Not for hot dropping random targets in low sec!!!
And yes I am mad. I just lost a Rev and barely got out my Moros. Killing a POS in low sec and a random Null sec guy hot drops ONE super on us. Our BSes fall trying to pop his fighter bombers to save the two dreads. He pulls them in and put out fighters. We can't kill his fighters so the BSes die. Then my Rev can't get out either before succumbing to the Supercarrier.
I just thought that the nerf was supposed to make them not taken out solo. They would need support. Apparantly they are STILL WTFSOLOPWNMOBILEs.
Low sec can't be for us mid sized alliances and corps fighting over POSes and POCOs without worrying about supers.
If I got dropped by 10 dreads and carriers or titan bridged by thier support too thats fine. That takes people.
a SOLO Nyx taking out ALL our ships is ********. We aren't going to fight over things in low sec because we are too scared now we will lose another Dread. We don't have Tech moons to fuel cap ship funds. We can't even moon mine since the sec isn't low enough.
Dread buff and Super nerfs were not enough. Maybe they were enough for null but we NEED low sec to be about smaller ships fighting. Dreads and carriers at the biggest. Should be a stepping stone to null.
Not assigning fighters and no DDD in low sec isn't enough. REMOVE all offensive abilties of supers in low sec.
That will help low sec grow into a more populated area....
and YES I'M MAD BRO.
But I'm not quitting so you can't have my stuff.
Soooo ... what you realy want is to limit other aliances/corps military power to your own level, just becase you've got butt raped while trying to play in big league ? Oh .... poor guy |

Dbars Grinding
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
346
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 15:51:00 -
[47] - Quote
Um so get your own supers? |

Cloora
APEX Unlimited APEX Conglomerate
62
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 16:06:00 -
[48] - Quote
Wow, did you guys even read the OP? CEO and Major ShareholderAPEX ConglomerateMaker of Starsi softdrinks and Torped-Os! Cereal http://www.altaholics.blogspot.com
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Vetorept Fera
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 16:08:00 -
[49] - Quote
Angry brother detected.  Esse vel non esse, id est, de quo preoccupies nostrum. |

Serene Repose
Perkone Caldari State
209
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 16:14:00 -
[50] - Quote
The Low Sec Pirate's Lament Waaaaah!! I can't run riot over low sec 'cause of those nasty Supers!! Waaaaah!! I so wanted to be king of my turdhill!! Waaaaah!! But, people I gank can come back with their friends and wipe up the system with me!!! Waaaaah!! Those dadgum, evil Supers!!!
I know...let's reprogram the game so all the ISK slides into my wallet! Let the killboards swell with my name as I one-shot capitals! We could rename the game to....WALL STREET!!
Smokestack lightnin' shinin' just like gold. |

TheBlueMonkey
Natural Progression
16
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 16:18:00 -
[51] - Quote
HA! You're worse than me and I'm terrible |

Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
3042
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 16:22:00 -
[52] - Quote
Cloora wrote:Wow, did you guys even read the OP?
Just enough to understand that this guy was trying to twist a point of view for an underlying problem which is ever more effecient to cut though than to wade though it.
Just like politicans!
|

Xanatia
Mindelan Heavy Industry
11
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 16:43:00 -
[53] - Quote
As others have pointed out, you made a few fundamental errors. sure its annoying when someone comes along and pops your stuff, but take the lessons to heart.
the most important one is proper planning, and the acronym for that goes...
Proper Planning Prevents P*ss Poor Performance (the 6P's)
The second is never to commit capitals without a proper support fleet. the support fleet is there to protect the caps. have scouts in adjacent systems, if you see a hostile cyno in your system, take it out, sacrificing the support fleet if you have to (thats what they are there for) Generally, when caps are deployed, the support fleet stays on the field until the caps leave the field (either dead, warped out, or jumped out.) Be prepared that if the crap does hit the fan, to sacrifice some of your ships to ensure that some get away. and, what works. for me personally, is that if the situation is dire, there is ALWAYS time, to take a deep breath, and compose yourself
Have an escape cyno ship ready, remember, dreads in siege are immune to ewar and therefore can't be pointed except by bubbles, or HIC's try to build up your cap (caps have a hefty amount of EHP) and when your siege cycle ends, jump out. if you time it right, you can jump before they point you.
also bear in mind, its possible to do everything right, and still lose, the other side has a vested interest in winning as well. so take the lessons to heart, and try to do better the next time |

Tarkoauc
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
28
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 16:56:00 -
[54] - Quote
So the OP is pissed off because his ace (dread against pos) was trumped by a joker (sc versus dread.) He thought he could bash with immunity some helpless little pos like a schoolyar bully and is now sour grapes when the apparent big brother shows up and returns the favor.
The OP did not realize that maybe this helpless non-name corp POS was maybe an off-the-books corp of a major (or not that major anymore) alliance? Many larger alliances are using small corps for manufacturing and logistics to not be subject to the silly hi-sec war decs. |

Mr Bigwinky
4U Services Inc. 4U Holdings Inc
143
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 17:39:00 -
[55] - Quote
Nova Fox wrote:Lord Xyr'dan wrote:[quote=Aiwha][quote=Lord Xyr'dan] There is no medium in between high sec and null? Nope.
I would say "Wormhole space" but then I told WH space 'bout all your whining and it told me you're not welcome. Welcome to EVE online, here's your rubix cube, go F*** yourself GÖÑ |

Mutnin
SQUIDS.
84
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 17:51:00 -
[56] - Quote
I'm at odds if I mind the fact that SC's can come to low sec for almost risk less PVP. Even if a local group happens to catch one with a dictor, it's still very unlikely they could kill it before the SC could either log off or get help. This makes it a very lopsided power play for the SC's in low sec.
On the other hand I had almost forgotten how often I used to get hot dropped by normal carriers in low sec. Last night was the first time in ages I have had the experience of having a Carrier dropped onto a gate for our a few Drakes, something that used to be a pretty common thing in low sec, in the past.
I don't know if the rarity of regular cap hot drops is due to the area I live being hot drop heaven for null sec guys, or if it's the fear of SC's that has turned 99% of low sec capitols into nothing more than station ornaments.
Personally I don't care much about SC's because I don't see them that often, however Titian bridging is becoming annoying through low sec. Either way, the clear solution is to nerf Drakes. |

Ptraci
StoneWall Metals Productions Bloodbound.
319
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 17:58:00 -
[57] - Quote
Your pathetic loss is not an indication of low sec being "broken" as much as it is of your inability to play the game. |

PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Flatline.
26
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 18:05:00 -
[58] - Quote
While the op fails miserably (that raven fit is atrocious), and fielding any sort of caps w/o a decent support fleet is tantamount to suicide, he does have a point.
Namely, if supercaps were removed from lowsec, more people would be interested in lowsec.
However, the op and his buddies deserved those losses so meh. |

Chandaris
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
56
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 18:20:00 -
[59] - Quote
I agree the damned things are OP (and overpriced)
However it sounds like you came somewhat unprepared.
No HIC? He probably wouldnt even have dropped you if you had one on grid.
Did the BS primary the fighter bombers? What about smaller sub-cap support? Had you gotten that thing pointed with a hic, warped off the BS and had some bc/cruiser pilots come in to kill the fighter bombers, you might be sitting on a shiny SuperCap kill mail right now
But instead you just showed up with a bunch of unprepared, poorly fit BS with no support ships and are crying now because someone exploited your obvious fleet weaknesses. |

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
34
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 18:29:00 -
[60] - Quote
Tarkoauc wrote:So the OP is pissed off because his ace (dread against pos) was trumped by a joker (sc versus dread.) He thought he could bash with immunity some helpless little pos like a schoolyar bully and is now sour grapes when the apparent big brother shows up and returns the favor. That happens a bunch when using dreadnaught to POS shoot. When peple drop their supercap blob on you, everyone can get away except the poor dreadnaughts. Ah siege mode. |
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