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So are we all cool with the carrier nerf?

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Li via	Posted - 2007.11.29 02:32:00 - [1] It will no longer be possible to use the cargohold of a ship stored in a ship maintenance array for additional storage. Only charges will be storable.? Just checkin. -Li
Hypothetical Axe Gang	Posted - 2007.11.29 02:38:00 - [2] CCP was smart about this tbh. They suggested the ******** drone nerf, then slipped the hauling nerf in. It sucks, but it's better than the proposed fighter nerf, and it WILL be nice to be able to carry fleet BSs. I think "happy" is overstating it, we're at the acceptance phase.
Wooly Gump	Posted - 2007.11.29 02:40:00 - [3] Omfg, whine more.
Dirk Magnum FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.29 02:43:00 - [4] No, the new colors on the Thanatos are horrible thank you very much for asking my opinion on the topic of nerfs involving carriers.
Bon Hedus Amarr O.E.C Legionnaire Services Ltd.	Posted - 2007.11.29 02:44:00 - [5] Originally by: Wooly Gump Omfg, whine more. Troll elsewhere please Not happy with it, but it should be livable. -------------------------------------- Heavy Lag Spike II belonging to EvE Cluster Node #0815 hits your Connection, wrecking your latency to 998ms [orange]signature removed - please email us to fi
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Military Industrial Research	Posted - 2007.11.29 02:55:00 - [6] Great change. Logistics for most alliances in 0.0 are, for the most part, nearly impossible to interdict at the moment no matter what you do. And that's mainly because of carriers. Logistics and clear supply lines should be something difficult that you have to plan for and defend in a war.
Gojyu Gallente Ever Flow DeStInY.	Posted - 2007.11.29 02:56:00 - [7] Yup, we're good. Hopefully come december 5 you guys can take down those crappy sigs
lofty29 Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.29 03:01:00 - [8] You can still carry charges. Im fine with it --- Latest Video : FAT- Camp
Rydia Davenport Caldari Claflin Industries	Posted - 2007.11.29 03:34:00 - [9] all fine here. now carriers can move battleships...whats not to love???
Gridwalker Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.29 04:03:00 - [10] Originally by: Reem Fairchild Great change. Logistics for most alliances in 0.0 are, for the most part, nearly impossible to interdict at the moment no matter what you do. And that's mainly because of carriers. Logistics and clear supply lines should be something difficult that you have to plan for and defend in a war. Which is, of course, why they are introducing Jump Freighters. Let's not pretend that the changes to carriers are anything but CCP deciding they didn't like the roles carriers ended up filling. We're just going to need to see how this all pans out next week. -Grid

Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2007.11.29 04:06:00 - [11] Originally by: Gridwalker Originally by: Reem Fairchild Great change. Logistics for most alliances in 0.0 are, for the most part, nearly impossible to interdict at the moment no matter what you do. And that's mainly because of carriers. Logistics and clear supply lines should be something difficult that you have to plan for and defend in a war. Which is, of course, why they are introducing Jump Freighters. Let's not pretend that the changes to carriers are anything but CCP deciding they didn't like the roles carriers ended up filling. We're just going to need to see how this all pans out next week. -Grid note the delay of jump freighters being "introduced" and operational.
Queen Killerz	Posted - 2007.11.29 04:31:00 - [12] Edited by: Queen Killerz on 29/11/2007 04:33:36 Originally by: Li via It will no longer be possible to use the cargohold of a ship stored in a ship maintenance array for additional storage. Only charges will be storable.? Just checkin. -Li Wow I can see people leaving the game over this. Maybe that what CCP intended to do anyways. Never shocking to hear about NERFS in EVE. I just laugh and move on.. All this BECAUSE "We must find away to stop isk sellers" EDIT : Didnt SWG Game designer kill their game too?
Kodiak31415 An Eye For An Eye Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.11.29 04:40:00 - [13] Originally by: Rydia Davenport all fine here. now carriers can move battleships...whats not to love??? The fact that you can't put 2 megathrons, 2 apoc's or 2 hyperions into the carrier bays? Not that bad for ammar as no one uses the apoc anymore anyway, but really sucky for gallente. _______________________________ Pleese exucse any seplling erorr's in tihs psot
wapacz Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.29 04:44:00 - [14] Edited by: wapacz on 29/11/2007 04:45:52 Really thinking about quiting now. I just spent 2.5 bill isk on a ship that took me 8 months to train and have had less than 2 months. The carrier now pretty much has 5k of capacity becuase the carrier needs fuel to go any where so you have to pack extra to be safe. Then they are increasing the size of cap modules so carrier can't carry a refit. Though the real pain of this all is that I now have to keep track of other peoples refits. I really just don't have the will to put in the time for isk grind. The time for the skills. To just to have a ship nerfed to make another one look worth while. Especially on something that cost so much isk that it practically would have paid for my whole play time in eve and has took a 1/3 of my time in eve to get into.
Butalus	Posted - 2007.11.29 04:50:00 - [15] oh noes a goonie leaving eve theres a tragedy Back to the point dont like it but can live with it
sableye principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.11.29 04:56:00 - [16] I take each swing of the nerf bat as they come, directly to the face. Join The Fight With Promo Today
Queen Killerz	Posted - 2007.11.29 05:03:00 - [17] Originally by: Butalus oh noes a goonie leaving eve theres a tragedy Back to the point dont like it but can live with it You have NO clue what he just said. I don't think you can eve understand what he said. Because you probably are still in a noob ship. It takes most Capital ship polit about yr and half to train the skills. It takes more then one account to move these ships around It is very easy to see why CCP would destroy the ship, but at very costly mistake. Do I really care? No I didn't train Capital ships, I don't think I will either. With all the changes and Price gouging going on .. I haven't a clue what im doing. Honestly if I didn't have my friends here I might have move on long ago. After all its the community that makes this game. I think that what I like the most!
Cadiz Caldari No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2007.11.29 05:12:00 - [18] Edited by: Cadiz on 29/11/2007 05:13:49 The doubling of the base cargohold of Rorquals should prove adequate in picking up the slack here. I think people figured that the new Rorq will be able to get, what, around 120k m3 cargo space without resorting to t2 rigs or somesuch? Not to mention that said Rorqual is actually more effective in terms of isotopes per m3 hauled than the new jump freighters. Unless they tweak jump freighter cargo capacity, fuel usage, or jump range in an upward direction, there's not really a huge reason to go using them quite yet. Probably another example or a prenerfed ship, really. Rorqual has half the carrying capacity of a jump freighter, but uses 1/3rd of the fuel. Jump range is the same, and it has self-defense capabilities to boot. So yeah, it's annoying and it's another 450mil isk skill that people need to go pick up, not to mention more midpoint hassles than before, but other than that it's hardly a crippling deathblow to 0.0 logistics. Back to the 2005 era of indy & freighter convoys it is not. ------ Director, No Quarter "There is no problem that cannot be solved by the judicious application of violence."
bluechimera D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.29 05:48:00 - [19] Oi...they mean the Ship Maintenance Bay with that? The wording "ship maintenance array" is the name of the POS structure that you can store ships/refit at. Didnt realize that they called the carrier bay the same thing :o Quick Jacques, silence me before the masses have an opinion!
Cadiz Caldari No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2007.11.29 05:49:00 - [20] Originally by: bluechimera Oi...they mean the Ship Maintenance Bay with that? The wording "ship maintenance array" is the name of the POS structure that you can store ships/refit at. Didnt realize that they called the carrier bay the same thing :o Yep. Only things ships stored inside carriers will be able to have in their cargo holds are ammo charges and (I presume) cap boosters. ------ Director, No Quarter "There is no problem that cannot be solved by the judicious application of violence."

bluechimera D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.29 05:52:00 - [21] Originally by: Cadiz Originally by: bluechimera Oi...they mean the Ship Maintenance Bay with that? The wording "ship maintenance array" is the name of the POS structure that you can store ships/refit at. Didnt realize that they called the carrier bay the same thing :o Yep. Only things ships stored inside carriers will be able to have in their cargo holds are ammo charges and (I presume) cap boosters. Holy *ness batman....how the ** am I moving my backup modules around now @_@ Quick Jacques, silence me before the masses have an opinion!
Cadiz Caldari No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2007.11.29 05:53:00 - [22] Originally by: bluechimera Holy *ness batman....how the ** am I moving my backup modules around now @_@ So I herd u liek whatever part of your corp hangar bay isn't filled with backup fuel... ------ Director, No Quarter "There is no problem that cannot be solved by the judicious application of violence."
Eval B'Stard Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.11.29 05:58:00 - [23] It could have been worse.........much worse ------------------------------------------- When we gonna see the 40km and 80km tractor beams ?
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2007.11.29 06:03:00 - [24] Originally by: Li via It will no longer be possible to use the cargohold of a ship stored in a ship maintenance array for additional storage. Only charges will be storable.? Just checkin. -Li What carrier nerf? Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I
Queen Killerz	Posted - 2007.11.29 06:07:00 - [25] Originally by: Eval B'Stard It could have been worse.........much worse What could have been worse? --------------------------- POS renting in drone regions becomes what? Carrier become one big freighter with (Use of 5 drones) and will the fuel cost cover the freighter charge? Still asking myself why I give two ****
William Darkk Gallente Vengeance of the Fallen Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.11.29 06:34:00 - [26] Wasn't haulers in carriers with cargo in them a bug in the first place? I remember reading posts to the effect that it was. IIRC it was "you can put a hauler with cargo into a carrier if it's docked but not if it's in space, one of these behaviors is probably a bug". -------------------------------------------------- <3 my Drones
UGWidowmaker Caldari Setenta Corp Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2007.11.29 06:55:00 - [27] well rather the hauling ability than the fighting ability... if they really would nerf fighters.. hmmm then i would be very damn upset.. VERY. OMFG I am the widowmaker stay tuned.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2007.11.29 07:17:00 - [28] Originally by: UGWidowmaker well rather the hauling ability than the fighting ability... if they really would nerf fighters.. hmmm then i would be very damn upset.. VERY. I can't wait for the fighter nerf. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I
Haven Allroon	Posted - 2007.11.29 07:25:00 - [29] Not like it matters, CCP only opens these kind of threads to lock them
Verite Rendition Caldari F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2007.11.29 07:29:00 - [30] Originally by: Cadiz Edited by: Cadiz on 29/11/2007 05:13:49 The doubling of the base cargohold of Rorquals should prove adequate in picking up the slack here. I think people figured that the new Rorq will be able to get, what, around 120k m3 cargo space without resorting to t2 rigs or somesuch? Not to mention that said Rorqual is actually more effective in terms of isotopes per m3 hauled than the new jump freighters. Unless they tweak jump freighter cargo capacity, fuel usage, or jump range in an upward direction, there's not really a huge reason to go using them quite yet. Probably another example or a prenerfed ship, really. Rorqual has half the carrying capacity of a jump freighter, but uses 1/3rd of the fuel. Jump range is the same, and it has self-defense capabilities to boot. So yeah, it's annoying and it's another 450mil isk skill that people need to go pick up, not to mention more midpoint hassles than before, but other than that it's hardly a crippling deathblow to 0.0 logistics. Back to the 2005 era of indy & freighter convoys it is not. Bingo. We're as sure as hell not happy about it, but it's pretty obvious this was coming the moment CCP found out that the community wouldn't stand for the fighter nerf; something else had to go. We have our Rorquals lined up and ready to go, we'll accept what we've been given, if only because we have no other choice. I am a little steamed about what this means for fuel costs though. All of those carriers replaced with Oxygen-chugging Rorquals... ---- FREE Explorer Lead Megalomanic EVE Automated Influence Map

Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.29 07:53:00 - [31] Originally by: wapacz Edited by: wapacz on 29/11/2007 04:52:14 Edited by: wapacz on 29/11/2007 04:45:52 Really thinking about quiting now. I just spent 2.5 bill isk on a ship that took me 8 months to train and have had less than 2 months. The carrier now pretty much has 5k of capacity becuase the carrier needs fuel to go any where so you have to pack extra to be safe. Then they are increasing the size of cap modules so carrier can't carry a refit. Though the real pain of this all is that I now have to keep track of other peoples refits. I really just don't have the will to put in the time for isk grind. The time for the skills. To just to have a ship nerfed to make another one look worth while. Especially on something that cost so much isk that it practically would have paid for 3/4 of my play time in eve and has took a 1/3 of my time in eve to get into. Awwwwwwwwwww. Can you contract me your carrier? I'm about to start training for them. With a bit of luck if you ever figure out how Eve is supposed to work I might be willing to let you have it back. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
RU Pondering	Posted - 2007.11.29 09:28:00 - [32] Edited by: RU Pondering on 29/11/2007 09:32:02 Originally by: Andrue With a bit of luck if you ever figure out how Eve is supposed to work I might be willing to let you have it back. What the ** kind of comment is that? Since you're such a bloody damn genius, explain it to EVERYONE else whom have trained a year or more to get into a carrier, and to the corps that supported the pilot by doing whatever was needed to get the minerals needed to build the damn thing, why they should be happy that one major use of the ship has just gotten flushed down the **ter. Not all of us are in large corps, not all of us have endless supplies of ISK at our disposal. We can't just whip out Rorquals or Jump Freighters on demand. As I see it, this change makes it harder for smaller groups (corps or alliances) to move out to 0.0. With the pre-nerf carrier, ships could be used to move other ships, mods, POS stuff, etc. Now, you can't do that. Your options are what, a hauler / freighter convoy, a Rorqual, or a Jump Freighter? The first option increases the risk significantly without increasing the reward since the reward is the same pre- or post- nerf. The second and third options mean more cost, more mining, and more work to do something that can be done right now. Put another way, while this nerf is obviously meant to be a nice time and ISK sink, the larger groups of players are able to absorb this relatively easy and continue on, whereas the smaller groups of players are liable to be completed screwed over. And anyone who says anything along the lines of "Don't like it, then join one of the larger groups" need to realize that they're falling into the trap of dictating how to play, which directly contradicts a major selling point of Eve. Besides, some people have loyalty to corps / alliances / friendships they've been a part of for a long time and have no desire to change that.
Kakita J Placid Reborn Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.11.29 10:21:00 - [33] First of all, it hardly takes a year to get into a carrier. Maybe from zero, but then again, going straight for carriers is about as useful as 4 week old BS pilots. Second, training for ANY ship carries the implicit risk of it being nerfed. Ask the Titan pilots how they think about the 10 minute jump delay after Doomsday etc. Or the Amarr recon pilots about the nos nerf. Or Gallente pilots about the drone nerf. Or Caldari about PVP. Third, carriers are not nearly being nerfed to the point of being "useless". They're just less overpowered and allround useful. -------------------------------------- "They better fix the bleep bleep bleep jump bleep gates before I bleepbleepbleep and then some."
Mecinia Lua Galactic Express Frontier Trade League	Posted - 2007.11.29 10:26:00 - [34] With the Rorqual boost and the Jump Freighters I am not surprised by the move. They want us to use them and not the carriers for logistics I think. It'll take getting used to but I think we'll adapt. Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts.
Kurogauna	Posted - 2007.11.29 10:46:00 - [35] Lol i don't care now about all this things... This patch brings too much crap ... If ccp want to reduce the drones lag, he can group 5 drones in ONE object, like a unit... But no, always better to nerf month and month of skills. I'll leave ^ ^ - Real men tank hull.
Darwinia Minmatar	Posted - 2007.11.29 11:12:00 - [36] I can understand why they 'nerfed' the unintended use of carriers as supply ships, but not the Rorqual boost... Who the heck is going to use the cargo space gimped jump freighters over them.. they will cost 5x as much and use more fuel/cargo carried... It's ok to pre nerf things, but introducing ships thate are useless from the get go is just stupid. ------------------------ I don't believe in sigs.
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Fnck the blob.	Posted - 2007.11.29 11:35:00 - [37] I'm not a carrier pilot and i dont think i'll reactivate my alt who was 90% of the way there until I see what happens to the carrier DPS nerf... This change seems ok, will make carriers more useful for "logistics" and less useful for "hauling pos fuel" The other nerf though... ick... it should die to death... CCP is looking at carriers all wrong. 1 Carriers DPS is fine, its not hard to cope with, its f'ing spider tanks that are the problem. Until they start spider tanking carriers are easy as pie to deal with, you have to outnumber them if you're in sub capitals but they provide a good challenge. If spider tanking was changed (ccp seems obsessed with the idea of carriers repping everything and hugging stations till the day the servers end) then maybe the problems would go away. They are never solo wtfpwnmobiles, when there are 5 or more they create a wtfforcedbuttsecksblob which is not a lot of fun...
Matrix Aran Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.11.29 11:39:00 - [38] Really simple, adapt or die. If you honestly can't figure out how to still make use of you carrier you may aswell quit while you're ahead. The half of the eve community that has this figured out will simple silently keep moving forward while you waste your time screaming like a two year old for thier bottle. Think it out and you may just figure out what everyone else has. ----
Illyrinia Caldari Epiphyte Mining and Exploration Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2007.11.29 11:41:00 - [39] uh... im happy, im a chimera pilot (part time lmao) http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=643000
Dahin Maza Nostra oooh Shiny	Posted - 2007.11.29 11:49:00 - [40] Carriers did indeed to it all. Kill, support, haul. I mean there was nothing they couldn't do (well, apart from run most missions in em). So, from a guy that already has quite a few carrier-related skills to 5: The hauling nerf was fine, I'd like to see the fighter nerf as well. Why fly covops? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0WOIwlXE9g

Judge Ment ECMI Aeon Group Enterprises	Posted - 2007.11.29 12:21:00 - [41] Edited by: Judge Ment on 29/11/2007 12:22:02 FFS some people are smoke'n 1.) Takes more then yr to get into Capital ships. Then it takes even longer to train capital skills. After all Capital ships ARE Not for NEW 4Weeks old players WITH BS Skill.. /Buddy you are on ****! 2.) CCP has really not thought this through at all. Carrier happens to be a big part As a Logistical ship* I would say its more MOVING station on Wheels. a.) It offers support with it fighter to <smaller fighters> making them stronger. b.) It offers quick change in deep space. I cant stress the importance of this part. This might be the biggest part of the Carrier Polit. c.) It the smartest hauler in space! Piracy would love to see this <NERF> d.) Do I think it awesome fighting ship? No I think the Carrier is a Logistical ship. Do you see them in fleet wars on the battlefields? ans NO! 3.) Over the months that I been part of CCP. The game is really change with all the stupid nerfs. The worst being against CALDARI ships. <the most used ships in the game> But this is the biggest crock of **** yet! OMG I cant believe more carrier polit are not here to whine about the change. GOOD GOD YOU DONE IT!
Lazuran Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation	Posted - 2007.11.29 13:34:00 - [42] Originally by: Li via It will no longer be possible to use the cargohold of a ship stored in a ship maintenance array for additional storage. Only charges will be storable.? It's a stupid unrealistic and probably code-bloating restriction, but we wanted the Carriers to stay capable of fighting on the front lines and they can still do that. If the carebearing role of Carriers is nerfed, that's fine with me. Although a larger corp hangar would be appropriate now IMO. "...been designed for one purpose and one purpose only. Imagine a handful of repair drones pouring from the carebear's mouth. Now imagine they have um, nothing." -Unknown Hel redesigner (2007)
eve warrior Minmatar Filthy Scum	Posted - 2007.11.29 13:40:00 - [43] I for one Love it. Now i can fit bs into the ship bay eve warrior
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.11.29 13:44:00 - [44] Carriers are not getting nerf'ed, they're getting a boost! Able to haul more ships! Able to haul BATTLESHIPS! Remove unintended ability to pretend they're haulers! So, 2 outright gold-class wins, and one removal of an ability they're not supposed to have anyway. That's a boost, not a nerf! A carrier is a fighting ship, not a friggin' hauler! Oh, and to the dissatisfied goon..... CIHYS? Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
thoth foc Arcane Technologies The Five	Posted - 2007.11.29 13:48:00 - [45] Originally by: wapacz Edited by: wapacz on 29/11/2007 04:52:14 Edited by: wapacz on 29/11/2007 04:45:52 Really thinking about quiting now. I just spent 2.5 bill isk on a ship that took me 8 months to train and have had less than 2 months. The carrier now pretty much has 5k of capacity becuase the carrier needs fuel to go any where so you have to pack extra to be safe. Then they are increasing the size of cap modules so carrier can't carry a refit. Though the real pain of this all is that I now have to keep track of other peoples refits. I really just don't have the will to put in the time for isk grind. The time for the skills. To just to have a ship nerfed to make another one look worth while. Especially on something that cost so much isk that it practically would have paid for 3/4 of my play time in eve and has took a 1/3 of my time in eve to get into. mhm.. my question is.. did you actually need the carrier in the first place? I have a carrier that i have never actually used.. My first suggestion b4 deciding to quit the game is to look at the way you want to play _________________________ xMenta (DSMA) xBOS (CA) ATUK (.5.) xDICE (BOB) xElcyion Lacar
wapacz Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.29 13:51:00 - [46] Originally by: Judge Ment b.) It offers quick change in deep space. I cant stress the importance of this part. This might be the biggest part of the Carrier Polit. This is what really gets me. I can also fly a freighter could be in a jump freighter in a matter of hours. Can be in a rorqual with in 2 hours. Its really not the hauling that bugs me. What it is is that just like back when freighters couldn't take courier missions. I had to open notepad get what ever one was giving me, doing it one at a time. Then fly the freighter down to where ever and sort through all the stuff and escrow or trade it back to every one. Now I am doing the same dang thing except I am in a combat zone. where probably 90% of the people can't use my corp hangar. So I have to sit there with this list get in a convo see what they want. Drag it all to my cargo hold and then jet it so they can refit. Now imagine I am back at a station bring new ships to the front line. I have to get in a convo with who ever want a ship. Get a list of there refit modules. Set up what to do is say they loose that ship before refitting. Then finally get them to contract me the ship and the item. All this I have to do for each person. Then once that is all done get the cynos in place to actauly get it down and hope the battle isn't all over by the time I get there. Oh and did I mention the whole fact that the cha can lag like crazy and take 5 minutes to open at time. Compare this to the past where I would just say put the refit in the cargo hold and contract it. Then throw the ship in my sma get the cynos I need.
Rake Mizar Tenth Legion Holdings Tenth Legion	Posted - 2007.11.29 15:21:00 - [47] Edited by: Rake Mizar on 29/11/2007 15:22:14 I'm just glad I decided not to throw rigs on my two Iteron III's I was using. Time to remove the u-haul sticker off the side of it. I'll live. edit because 'scr ape' contains a naughty word.
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.29 15:44:00 - [48] Edited by: Andrue on 29/11/2007 15:44:06 Originally by: Rake Mizar Edited by: Rake Mizar on 29/11/2007 15:22:14 edit because 'scr ape' contains a naughty word. Curiously enough it also contains the name of a very common plant crop. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
aevistyne Caldari Junkyard Warriors	Posted - 2007.11.29 15:54:00 - [49] If that's all they're doing, I have no real issues with it, I would like it if they doubled the size of the corp hangar so that i could store some more fuel, and spare fittings/ammo for the ships i can now hold in my bay, but as far as the ideas that they were tossing around, have to say i support this nerf the most out of them.
Princess Jodi Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.11.29 16:17:00 - [50] I hope everyone realizes that the cargo nerf is IN ADDITION to the aborted plans to nerf carriers. That nerf is still comming, although the recent outrage against the ill-conceived ZuluPark post has delayed it for now. From what I can glean of CCP's intentions from the Features and Ideas section, they are leaning towards making things like the Ship Maint Array and the Fighters bonus to be some kind of 'super-rig' that you add to your carrier. The supposed promise is that you can set your ship up to perhaps surpass the current abilities, but by sacrificing other abilities. None of this is official, of course - I'm just speculating based on what input I have. So this cargo nerf is all about CCP not liking the cargo carrying role of a carrier. The funny thing is that by the logic they have employed, look for a nerf to the Rorqual and Dread hauling capabilities in the future. After all, 'your not using them as intended' To the OP: NO! I'm not 'ok' with it! I live 55 jumps from Jita: I jumped cargo in my Carrier cuz there was no better alternative and the job needed to be done. CCP delayed a year in giving us the Jump Freighter. Now they are taking away the mover of choice before the Jump Freighters can become common. And as stated, people will just use another ship type to jump stuff to 0.0. If CCP would simply give us the Jump Freighter, they would find that there is no need to nerf carriers.

Strak Yogorn Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.29 16:36:00 - [51] You know.. noone is forcing you to sell/buy stuff in jita ...
Princess Jodi Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.11.29 17:15:00 - [52] Edited by: Princess Jodi on 29/11/2007 17:18:14 Strak, that is one wickedly stupid comment as a supposed comeback in support of Carrier nerfing. It bothers me to have to explain this to you, mostly cuz I don't know if I can do it using only single-syllable words: I said 'Jita' cuz most peeeps know where it is. Edited to change the word 'people' to 'peeps'. That way it stayed mono-sylable for you. Besides, 'peeps' is exactly the kind of dumb-downed vernacular that suits your comment.
Horace Slughorn	Posted - 2007.11.29 18:43:00 - [53] A Ship Maintenance Bay and a Ship Maintenance Array Are 2 seperate things the array is for POS's only. The Carrier does not have a Ship Maintenance Array it is a Ship Maintenance Bay.
Judge Ment ECMI Aeon Group Enterprises	Posted - 2007.11.29 19:19:00 - [54] Foo Bar
Tecknoblaze An Eye For An Eye Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.11.29 19:24:00 - [55] For those complaining about the stored ships' storage...maybe I'm missing something but couldn't you just use respectively named secure containers to store ship mods? ------------------------------------ You are now reading an important message.
Cadiz Caldari No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2007.11.29 19:37:00 - [56] Originally by: Tecknoblaze For those complaining about the stored ships' storage...maybe I'm missing something but couldn't you just use respectively named secure containers to store ship mods? This is awkward because you can't take stuff out of secure containers within the carrier corp hangar array. You have to move them to your cargo first, THEN take stuff out of them. ------ Director, No Quarter "There is no problem that cannot be solved by the judicious application of violence."
Zeminy Minmatar The Black Rabbits Academy The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2007.11.29 20:10:00 - [57] Quote: The Nidhoggur now has a new low slot at the expense of a medium slot. Does that mean they can actually tank now? If so then I am happy. lolz ~ * ~ ~ * ~
Turin Caldari Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.11.29 20:48:00 - [58] Originally by: Hypothetical CCP was smart about this tbh. They suggested the ******** drone nerf, then slipped the hauling nerf in. It sucks, but it's better than the proposed fighter nerf, and it WILL be nice to be able to carry fleet BSs. I think "happy" is overstating it, we're at the acceptance phase. Dont kid yourself. There is still some kind of big nerf coming to carrier fighters / drones. They just havent figured out how to feed it to us. If this upcoming patch were the ONLY nerf, I'll be fine. But I am almost possitive that more are incoming. _________________________________
Turin Caldari Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.11.29 20:51:00 - [59] Originally by: UGWidowmaker well rather the hauling ability than the fighting ability... if they really would nerf fighters.. hmmm then i would be very damn upset.. VERY. dont kid yourself. Its coming. Just hasnt happened yet. _________________________________
Strak Yogorn Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.29 22:50:00 - [60] fair enough princess jodi :)

realbadman	Posted - 2007.11.30 03:25:00 - [61] Not happy with it but it could have been worse. Forgot, worse is still coming later. It would have been nicer if I could still carry a refit but I cant. It would be nice if the corp hanger was bigger and didn't lag. It would be nice if you could remove corp hanger tabs too. At least I can still remote rep. Then again I can do that in a myrm. My 4 accounts (cyno alts freaking everywhere and a couple of others) are still canceled but i'm not leaving quite yet. I'll do isk for gtc's but i don't want to give ccp any more of my money. Others can pay for my eve time. In an ideal world, I'd like the dumbasses who keep responding to carrier threads, who have obviously never piloted one and have no idea what they are talking about, I'd like them to pay for my eve time. So sell me gtc's.
Varrakk Chosen Path	Posted - 2007.11.30 09:42:00 - [62] Stupid change Atleast now I get a use for my Moros (no gunnery skills 4tl)
Kale Kold Caldari V i r u s	Posted - 2007.11.30 10:47:00 - [63] Carriers really did need nerfing! website \| killboard
Necronomicon Caldari KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.30 11:36:00 - [64] The only one thing about the current nerf that bugs me is that a cyno field gen uses Liquid Ozone as a charge, yet I cannot fit a cyno ship with liquid Oz in my carrier. KIA - Don't ask me, I was off grid.
Bado Sten Minmatar Sten Industries	Posted - 2007.11.30 11:58:00 - [65] Originally by: RU Pondering Edited by: RU Pondering on 29/11/2007 09:32:02 Originally by: Andrue With a bit of luck if you ever figure out how Eve is supposed to work I might be willing to let you have it back. What the ** kind of comment is that? Since you're such a bloody damn genius, explain it to EVERYONE else whom have trained a year or more to get into a carrier, and to the corps that supported the pilot by doing whatever was needed to get the minerals needed to build the damn thing, why they should be happy that one major use of the ship has just gotten flushed down the **ter. Not all of us are in large corps, not all of us have endless supplies of ISK at our disposal. We can't just whip out Rorquals or Jump Freighters on demand. As I see it, this change makes it harder for smaller groups (corps or alliances) to move out to 0.0. With the pre-nerf carrier, ships could be used to move other ships, mods, POS stuff, etc. Now, you can't do that. Your options are what, a hauler / freighter convoy, a Rorqual, or a Jump Freighter? The first option increases the risk significantly without increasing the reward since the reward is the same pre- or post- nerf. The second and third options mean more cost, more mining, and more work to do something that can be done right now. Put another way, while this nerf is obviously meant to be a nice time and ISK sink, the larger groups of players are able to absorb this relatively easy and continue on, whereas the smaller groups of players are liable to be completed screwed over. And anyone who says anything along the lines of "Don't like it, then join one of the larger groups" need to realize that they're falling into the trap of dictating how to play, which directly contradicts a major selling point of Eve. Besides, some people have loyalty to corps / alliances / friendships they've been a part of for a long time and have no desire to change that. All he says is true. As a small industrial corp doing moon mining in Stain, we're quite done now. We can't pull a Rorq or jump freighter out of the hat, and three of our guys spent months training for carrier, just to realize that it was mostly for nothing. Jump bridges can't be used in Stain either, due to NPC sov there. We have dismantled all our towers and put them on the market -- Do you need research services for your blueprints? We have available slots in Metropolis region. Look up my bio for info!
Kale Kold Caldari V i r u s	Posted - 2007.11.30 16:07:00 - [66] Originally by: Bado Sten We can't pull a Rorq or jump freighter out of the hat, and three of our guys spent months training for carrier If you can't afford a rorq or jump freighter, whats makes you think you could afford a carrier? website \| killboard
Princess Jodi Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.11.30 16:20:00 - [67] I find it interesting that people seem to thing that the Carrier was the problem, so it needs to be nerfed. The problem is that large volumes of POS fuel need to be moved from empire to 0.0, and that large volumes of Moon Mineral products need to be moved out. CCP has up till now refused to give us a means to safely move such large volumes, so the Carrier was forced into the role. Equally amusing is the people who think that the hauling problem is all done now that Carriers can't move cargo anymore. I got news for you: Dreads and Rorquals will be nerfed next. It has already been noted that a Rorqual is more efficient in moving stuff than the proposed Jump Freighter. But again: The REAL Carrier nerf has not yet happened. This was an intermediate nerf, akin to mixing the chopped Liver in with mashed potatoes so your kid would eat it.
Armoured C Gallente Globaltech Industries Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2007.11.30 16:28:00 - [68] Originally by: wapacz Edited by: wapacz on 29/11/2007 04:52:14 Edited by: wapacz on 29/11/2007 04:45:52 Really thinking about quiting now. I just spent 2.5 bill isk on a ship that took me 8 months to train and have had less than 2 months. The carrier now pretty much has 5k of capacity becuase the carrier needs fuel to go any where so you have to pack extra to be safe. Then they are increasing the size of cap modules so carrier can't carry a refit. Though the real pain of this all is that I now have to keep track of other peoples refits. I really just don't have the will to put in the time for isk grind. The time for the skills. To just to have a ship nerfed to make another one look worth while. Especially on something that cost so much isk that it practically would have paid for 3/4 of my play time in eve and has took a 1/3 of my time in eve to get into. yeah but it pretty much still operational as it has the 15 fighter thing so what the hell are you on about i dont know you can store things in the corperate hanger things... your cargo bay and store those changes in a ship in the ship matience bay these ship arnt designed to be made shift hayulers you know so quit your whineing you got you fighter nerf discounted
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2007.11.30 16:29:00 - [69] Originally by: Princess Jodi The problem is that large volumes of POS fuel need to be moved from empire to 0.0, and that large volumes of Moon Mineral products need to be moved out. CCP has up till now refused to give us a means to safely move such large volumes, so the Carrier was forced into the role. Could you explain why you should be able to move massive volumes of material in and out of 0.0 with near-invulnerability? ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in ~~pink~~ Forum Warfare
Kumq uat Gallente Round Table Enterprises DeStInY.	Posted - 2007.11.30 16:40:00 - [70] No problem with the cargo changes. As long as they don't pass the fighter nerf I am fine www.eve-pirate.com author and goat molestor.

Princess Jodi Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.11.30 16:56:00 - [71] Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Princess Jodi The problem is that large volumes of POS fuel need to be moved from empire to 0.0, and that large volumes of Moon Mineral products need to be moved out. CCP has up till now refused to give us a means to safely move such large volumes, so the Carrier was forced into the role. Could you explain why you should be able to move massive volumes of material in and out of 0.0 with near-invulnerability? Its not so much that there is a 'right' to move stuff safely. But its obvious that people will choose safe mechanisms when they have so much stuff to lose. What I'm saying is that the sheer volume of materials that needs to be moved has led to creative solutions to the hauling problems. Carriers were simply the best choice available. Now that Carriers can't haul, you'll see Rorquals and Dreads hauling instead. So instead of fixing the problems with hauling, CCP has simply shifted the 'next-best solution' to a different ship type. Apparently, CCP wants us to be doing dozen-freighter convoy missions from empire. Anyone who has ever done one of those knows that they'll pick just about any other option over a 5-hour freighter op.
Great Guardian Minmatar Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2007.11.30 17:19:00 - [72] Edited by: Great Guardian on 30/11/2007 17:22:33 How come professional game designers can make such terrible game design ômistakesö and at the end paying customers are being ones paying full price??? CCP can fix their ômistakesö, but customers are not allowed even thou we were misleadà We should be allowed to respec our Skill Points. We spend months of training and billions of ISK for something that many of us do not want anymoreà. It was NOT our fault, remember that!!! Cheers, GG P.S. I am going to cancel one of my 3 accounts and other 2 will be paid by ISK for GTC method only...
LUH 3471	Posted - 2007.11.30 17:34:00 - [73] Originally by: Kumq uat No problem with the cargo changes. As long as they don't pass the fighter nerf I am fine this
Varrakk Chosen Path	Posted - 2007.11.30 17:54:00 - [74] Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Princess Jodi The problem is that large volumes of POS fuel need to be moved from empire to 0.0, and that large volumes of Moon Mineral products need to be moved out. CCP has up till now refused to give us a means to safely move such large volumes, so the Carrier was forced into the role. Could you explain why you should be able to move massive volumes of material in and out of 0.0 with near-invulnerability? Do you think this cargo nerf on carriers will change anything?
wapacz Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.30 23:03:00 - [75] Originally by: Armoured C Originally by: wapacz Edited by: wapacz on 29/11/2007 04:52:14 Edited by: wapacz on 29/11/2007 04:45:52 Really thinking about quiting now. I just spent 2.5 bill isk on a ship that took me 8 months to train and have had less than 2 months. The carrier now pretty much has 5k of capacity becuase the carrier needs fuel to go any where so you have to pack extra to be safe. Then they are increasing the size of cap modules so carrier can't carry a refit. Though the real pain of this all is that I now have to keep track of other peoples refits. I really just don't have the will to put in the time for isk grind. The time for the skills. To just to have a ship nerfed to make another one look worth while. Especially on something that cost so much isk that it practically would have paid for 3/4 of my play time in eve and has took a 1/3 of my time in eve to get into. yeah but it pretty much still operational as it has the 15 fighter thing so what the hell are you on about i dont know you can store things in the corperate hanger things... your cargo bay and store those changes in a ship in the ship matience bay these ship arnt designed to be made shift hayulers you know so quit your whineing you got you fighter nerf discounted Have you ever flown a carrier, becuase it really sounds like you haven't. Heres a hint the number 1 rule to follow is to pack way more fuel than you need. This is a ship that is stuck if you run out of fuel. Such your cargo hold is full of fuel and pretty much half your cha. Also to have 15 fighters I would need carrier 5. Its a nice rank 14 skill by the way. Then I would need advanced drone interfacing 5. That is a nice rank 8 skills. Also I would have to fit every one of my high slots with a drone control unit. All this for about 1500 dps max of killable fighters.


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