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Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Elite	Posted - 2007.11.29 05:04:00 - [1] Ok, so i download this new sisi patch, i'm in my nightmare, i try to undock, and i'm alerted i have 4 too many launchers fitted, ok i think to myself "maybe something screwed up" and then i see the following Since this terror was first seen haunting the spacelanes a year and a half ago, it has been the subject of persistent rumors to the effect that its design bears the indelible stamp of long-dead Sansha's own madness. Who else, the conspiracy theorists argue, could come up with such marvelously twisted designs? Special Ability: 100% bonus to Large Energy Turret damage Amarr Battleship Skill Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Large Energy Turret tracking per level Caldari Battleship Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Energy Turret damage per level Where's my missiles?!?!? also if thats not bad enough, according to the "fittings" bit, it now has 5 lows, 7 meds and 6 highs....what the hell? Please for the love of god tell me someone is playing some sick joke, because if not, you just ruined one very awesome ship, no matter what anyone says about it.. Welcome to EvE
Aeaus The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2007.11.29 05:06:00 - [2] The Nightmare is now the best Faction BS, 7 slot shield tank, 8 Turret DPS, fap fap :)
mantium	Posted - 2007.11.29 05:07:00 - [3] 4x drac tach beam lasers, Shieldtank, 4 t2 heatsinks How the hell can you complain? Thats like a perfect baby!
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Elite	Posted - 2007.11.29 05:13:00 - [4] Edited by: Blane Xero on 29/11/2007 05:16:39 I can complain because i have it rigged, i had spent months of work getting this beast for an optimum armor tank, i spent almost a year on skills, i bought it primarily because of its split weapon system domination in PvE, i litterally spent all my time in this ship when i played, and now, this? its a complete swap around in role, its gone from armor tanking to shields and removed the missiles, which was the side i specced in due to the Khanid changes... Since when have sansha shield tanked ffs? Also, i spent so long working out how to fit it i maxed PG and CPU to fit it snug as a bug in a rug, i used Quickfit for days on end tweaking this and that, its just an unbelievably drastic change, with no reason to enforce it that i can think of, it completely SCREWS people who have one already, and now its useless to them if they dont have shield tanking skills nearly perfect, i have a personal hate for shield tankers due to the micro management with shield boosters... its went from my perfect ship, to my most dreaded layout... Welcome to EvE
Aeaus The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2007.11.29 05:14:00 - [5] They were originally shield tankers, CCP changed the role a long time ago. The "good" news is that the prices are so high that you could sell it right now and get 2, or even 3 Navy Apocs or Ravens if you so wanted :)
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Elite	Posted - 2007.11.29 05:19:00 - [6] The problem is, navy ravens, or apocs are useless to me, i dont have lasers trained beyond level 3, and shield skills are basically all level 2. And to think i traded in my mach for this...its just complete bull... Welcome to EvE
Daelorn State War Academy	Posted - 2007.11.29 05:26:00 - [7] I guess for you the ship name is fitting Anyways can I have your nightmare?
Sirial Soulfly	Posted - 2007.11.29 05:29:00 - [8] On the plus side nightmare is worth a lot more so you can sell it with a profit.
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Elite	Posted - 2007.11.29 05:41:00 - [9] Edited by: Blane Xero on 29/11/2007 05:42:26 I'm sorry, but when you think of the time i spent working on my corrent TQ settup, the money i invested, the skills i trained SPECIFICALLY for my TQ settup, you can imagine why i'm outraged at this. People who complain about split weapon systems need to learn how to use it to their advantage, i chose the nightmare because when turret disrupted you still have more than 50% of your firepower unhindered, now thats gone. Ontop of that i spent 6+ months maxing armor tanking skills, i spent god knows how long with different missile skills, both now worthless. i bought mods for Armor tanking. now worthless. all of it. Now to be half as useful as i am on TQ now, the minute Trinity goes live (next week), i'll have to do another god knows how long amount of training, in SHIELDS and LASERS. i'd rather have split weapons than a shield tanking cap-hogging laser boat... i frequently suffer from connection congestion, meaning short lag spikes every so often, now, with armor tanking, thats not a problem, you can run 2 large reps and not cap-out easily with my TQ settup, but if i shield tank, and get a spike at the wrong moment, bye cap, or bye shields, either is bad news. I'm sorry, but unlike some ship changes that happen, i dont think anything has been this...serious (with the exception of khanid MK2) In short its been a great waste of a subscription of the last 9 or so months..thanks for that. Oh, also not to mention the overpriced loltastic shield mods costs... Welcome to EvE
Admiral Pelleon Caldari White Shadow Imperium Burning Horizons	Posted - 2007.11.29 06:17:00 - [10] Welcome to eve. Read the devblogs next time? ________ "It's a good day to die!"
F90OEX	Posted - 2007.11.29 06:31:00 - [11] Blane Xero... Make the most of it until Dec 5th ....
Shar'Tuk TheHated	Posted - 2007.11.29 06:39:00 - [12] Stop ***ing.. its now fixed and doesnt have a ty split weapon system. Now its something to fear. DRINK RUM It fights scurvy & boosts morale! THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES!**
Hrin Minmatar Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.29 06:43:00 - [13] shut up. The nightmare is now completely and utterly awesome. If you can't afford to re-rig it, then sell it. You're pretty horrible.
Taius Pax	Posted - 2007.11.29 07:11:00 - [14] Edited by: Taius Pax on 29/11/2007 07:14:22 I feel your pain... I spent hundreds of millions kitting out my Succubus with True Sansha pulse lasers and Domination Rocket launchers. I'm kind of **ed all that time i put into rockets and the money dropped on the launchers is basically **ed away. As for the devblogs, by the time they posted them it way beyond too late. It's kind of screwed up to fundamentally change a ship like that. Balance I understand, but completely altering the ship? Just make a new ship and stop spawning the BPCs for the old ones. At least let us keep the time and millions (billions?) we invested in fitting out and skilling a faction ship. I have a Phantasm I didn't even bother with after i heard about the changes. :(
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2007.11.29 07:12:00 - [15] Originally by: F90OEX Blane Xero... Make the most of it until Dec 5th .... insure + fly to low sec can always try the phoon although armor tanked ravens. or wait for the kanhid bs?
Khes	Posted - 2007.11.29 07:56:00 - [16] Edited by: Khes on 29/11/2007 07:57:29 OP: You have every right to be upset, it is your porogotive, but how much time you spent training for it or how much time you spent with QuickFit is irrelevant.
omiNATION Gallente Vanguard of the Ouroboros Nation	Posted - 2007.11.29 08:00:00 - [17] Huh, of all the things to complain about. [sig] EVE, basically an MMORPG with prison rules. [/sig]
Zaqar	Posted - 2007.11.29 08:33:00 - [18] Originally by: omiNATION Huh, of all the things to complain about. A guy totally specialises in a ship, then that ship gets changed so completely that many of his skills are no longer relevant to it... Dunno about you but I'd be a little pee'd off about it... Specialisation is becoming a risky strategy, given CCP's record of changing things completely and utterly.
Arana Tellen Gallente The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.11.29 08:51:00 - [19] Sell your stuff, retrain for the new one and rejoice, not only do you have a whole bunch of skills for other ships in the game, now when you retrain for the new nightmare it will be 2x better. Stop crying, take it like a man and look on the positive side of things --------------------------------- Oh noes!
Dead3y3	Posted - 2007.11.29 08:51:00 - [20] The skills you trained are not worthless. There are other armor tanking ships.
Zenst Gallente Omniscient Order	Posted - 2007.11.29 09:28:00 - [21] Originally by: Blane Xero Edited by: Blane Xero on 29/11/2007 05:16:39 I can complain because i have it rigged, i had spent months of work getting this beast for an optimum armor tank, i spent almost a year on skills, i bought it primarily because of its split weapon system domination in PvE, i litterally spent all my time in this ship when i played, and now, this? its a complete swap around in role, its gone from armor tanking to shields and removed the missiles, which was the side i specced in due to the Khanid changes... Since when have sansha shield tanked ffs? Also, i spent so long working out how to fit it i maxed PG and CPU to fit it snug as a bug in a rug, i used Quickfit for days on end tweaking this and that, its just an unbelievably drastic change, with no reason to enforce it that i can think of, it completely SCREWS people who have one already, and now its useless to them if they dont have shield tanking skills nearly perfect, i have a personal hate for shield tankers due to the micro management with shield boosters... its went from my perfect ship, to my most dreaded layout... If you have a ship that is being changed and you have rigs fitted - PETITION IT TO GET THE RIGS BACK. This is what I was told with regards to a sentry rig fitted EOS. Only fair so dont panic.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.29 09:42:00 - [22] Originally by: Zenst If you have a ship that is being changed and you have rigs fitted - PETITION IT TO GET THE RIGS BACK. This is what I was told with regards to a sentry rig fitted EOS. Only fair so dont panic. Was going to suggest the same. While the loss of your ideal ship set up is hard, you are losing "only" the plataform that you have choosen. The skills are usable on other ships, the modules if not applicable on other ships you like to use can be sold, the same for the rigs after they are recovered and the ship can be sold for a good sum (probably more than before). While not annunced the nightmare change was implemented in Sisi more than a month ago (probably 2 months) and discussed on the test server forum for a while. Most people were very happy of the change.
Kurogauna	Posted - 2007.11.29 11:53:00 - [23] Edited by: Kurogauna on 29/11/2007 11:54:54 leave that game, seriously, you can train crap things hoping for a boost or train good things fearing for a nerf. And, of course, i prefer to don't speak about loosy design. In other words, you will always loose your time. The nerf wheel is just a tool to keep people skilling, and keeping people = money. Its not a matter of balance after all. To do list : - reprocess all my stuff - selling minerals - giving billions to "ahjshadjd" - terminate my main - Real men tank hull.
Stitcher Caldari legion of qui Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2007.11.29 12:00:00 - [24] take my advice- re-fit it. learn the skills to use those tech 2 lasers, get a good shield tank together, fit some good support lowslots, spend as much time tweaking and refining it for its new role as you did for its old.... If you still feel the need to complain once that's been done, fair enough... but I suspect that you might actually start a thread called "CCP, I'm sorry I ever doubted you". I took one look at the changes to the Nightmare in the patch notes, and now I want one more than ever before. Screw nightmares, it's become my dream combat ship. - The game is not the problem. The problem is that you are not adapting to the game.
Fotis	Posted - 2007.11.29 12:07:00 - [25] Shield tank it, you should buy shield tanking modules like: True Sansha X-Large Shield Booster True Sansha Invulnerability Field
000Hunter000 Gallente Magners Marauders	Posted - 2007.11.29 12:12:00 - [26] Can i have ur nightmare? CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!! Magners is now recruiting, evemail me or Dagazbo ingame.
Infinitus Maximus	Posted - 2007.11.29 12:14:00 - [27] Originally by: Fotis Shield tank it, you should buy shield tanking modules like: True Sansha X-Large Shield Booster True Sansha Invulnerability Field lol! thanks for the insightful advice!
Asestorian Domination. Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.29 12:27:00 - [28] This has been known about for a while. I suppose it does suck for those who have spent a long time training for one ship, but you wouldn't be the first it's happened to, and you won't be the last. Overall the ships effectiveness has gone up. A lot. Maybe not for you, as you don't have the skills, but that's just the way it goes. --- MOZO
Protheroe	Posted - 2007.11.29 12:29:00 - [29] Quote: Just make a new ship and stop spawning the BPCs for the old ones. This seems like a fair solution to me, plus those who have trained for the ship would effectively be compensated for not being able to replace it by owning an increasingly rare and therefore more valuable ship.
Asestorian Domination. Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.29 12:34:00 - [30] Originally by: Protheroe Quote: Just make a new ship and stop spawning the BPCs for the old ones. This seems like a fair solution to me, plus those who have trained for the ship would effectively be compensated for not being able to replace it by owning an increasingly rare and therefore more valuable ship. Yeah which isn't fair as if I buy one now, I could later sell one for a crazy, crazy price, essentially making a huge load of cash for doing nothing. Woo. Sounds great. --- MOZO
Tech3	Posted - 2007.11.29 12:38:00 - [31] stop tears. just great amarrian ship -----------------------------------
Ryoji Tanakama Caldari Daikoku Fleet Shipyards	Posted - 2007.11.29 12:45:00 - [32] Originally by: Asestorian Originally by: Protheroe Quote: Just make a new ship and stop spawning the BPCs for the old ones. This seems like a fair solution to me, plus those who have trained for the ship would effectively be compensated for not being able to replace it by owning an increasingly rare and therefore more valuable ship. Yeah which isn't fair as if I buy one now, I could later sell one for a crazy, crazy price, essentially making a huge load of cash for doing nothing. Woo. Sounds great. Yeah cus that's nothing like real world markets at all... I could sell my Wii at the moment for nearly twice what I paid for it, wait 3 months and buy a new one at standard price. What's your point? ~Ryoji Tanakama Daikoku Fleet Shipyards
Stitcher Caldari legion of qui Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2007.11.29 12:49:00 - [33] Originally by: Protheroe Quote: Just make a new ship and stop spawning the BPCs for the old ones. This seems like a fair solution to me, plus those who have trained for the ship would effectively be compensated for not being able to replace it by owning an increasingly rare and therefore more valuable ship. except.... what's the point in owning a comabt ship if you aren't going to fight in it? leave them in. - The game is not the problem. The problem is that you are not adapting to the game.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2007.11.29 12:53:00 - [34] I have been playing around with the little-nightmare aka. Phantasm on SiSi and it rats Sansha/Bloods FASTER than a T2 Ratting Geddon .. and thats with a full PvP fit to boot :) I risk drowning in my saliva if I were to think about what the Nightmare can do ratting or missioning. The new bonus' allows for tractors, neuts, salvagers et al. it's like a T1 Marauder. Additionally those two ships are probably the meanest looking things ever with the new graphics ...
Decarus Amarr Mind and Matter	Posted - 2007.11.29 13:08:00 - [35] Dude, I can see so many reasons why you really shouldn't be complaining. And all of them have much more to do with you and all that time you personally* put into training this character* than how much this change rocks. It's the way of the MMO to evolve as I know you know. Perhaps this would be a good time to learn one of the best rules in a sandbox MMO, a golden nugget I picked up back in UO: "Don't put all your eggs in the same basket. Chances are the Devs want your basket for themselves." Anyways, in the off chance this post means you've started playing again you'll notice I left the corp. Thanks for the good, the bad and the ugly. ~Decarus, DANGER! Highly corrosive chemical material. Contact may cause severe irritation, burns or poisoning. Keep away from children.
Asestorian Domination. Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.29 13:15:00 - [36] Originally by: Ryoji Tanakama Originally by: Asestorian Originally by: Protheroe Quote: Just make a new ship and stop spawning the BPCs for the old ones. This seems like a fair solution to me, plus those who have trained for the ship would effectively be compensated for not being able to replace it by owning an increasingly rare and therefore more valuable ship. Yeah which isn't fair as if I buy one now, I could later sell one for a crazy, crazy price, essentially making a huge load of cash for doing nothing. Woo. Sounds great. Yeah cus that's nothing like real world markets at all... I could sell my Wii at the moment for nearly twice what I paid for it, wait 3 months and buy a new one at standard price. What's your point? Partly because this isn't real life.. I know that there are things like this already in game, but they aren't specifically designed to be investment opportunities. Having a version of the ship that is unchanged but doesn't drop any more only affects a tiny, tiny amount of people who want it to stay as it is, for everyone else it exists solely as an investment opportunity, and that isn't exactly what's supposed to be happening. There are enough ways in this game to make huge amounts of ISK as it is. --- MOZO
Mitsuni Abashadoni Minmatar The Prowlers	Posted - 2007.11.29 13:28:00 - [37] If this comes as a shock to you, you really haven't been paying attention, the changes have been on the forums for almost two months (thread about it). To paraphrase perfection; the plans have been on display in Ships and Modules for two of your earth-months, if you can't be bothered to take an interest in your own situation, that's your own fault :) The Patch was a LIE!
Sheedar Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.11.29 14:03:00 - [38] Originally by: Mitsuni Abashadoni If this comes as a shock to you, you really haven't been paying attention, the changes have been on the forums for almost two months (thread about it). To paraphrase perfection; the plans have been on display in Ships and Modules for two of your earth-months, if you can't be bothered to take an interest in your own situation, that's your own fault :) LIES!
Mister Xerox	Posted - 2007.11.29 14:08:00 - [39] Originally by: Kurogauna The nerf wheel is just a tool to keep people skilling, and keeping people = money. Its not a matter of balance after all. To do list : - reprocess all my stuff - selling minerals - giving billions to "Mister Xerox" - terminate my main There, fixed it for you... ;p
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.11.29 14:12:00 - [40] Originally by: Zaqar Originally by: omiNATION Huh, of all the things to complain about. A guy totally specialises in a ship, then that ship gets changed so completely that many of his skills are no longer relevant to it... Dunno about you but I'd be a little pee'd off about it... Specialisation is becoming a risky strategy, given CCP's record of changing things completely and utterly. Except that out of the other side of their mouth they tell you you can compete with older players by specializing.... -- Support fixing the EVE UI \| Suggest Jita fixes
Sakura Nihil Stimulus	Posted - 2007.11.29 14:12:00 - [41] Tough to be you. All I can say really. Say no to knee-jerk additions and nerfs, mmkay?
Gats Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.11.29 14:25:00 - [42] Ive been on the recieving end of one of these babys and they realy excell in what its designed to now . Dmg is insane and it tanks like a mofo . Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.11.29 14:31:00 - [43] Originally by: Blane Xero Ontop of that i spent 6+ months maxing armor tanking skills, i spent god knows how long with different missile skills, both now worthless. i bought mods for Armor tanking. now worthless. all of it. Wait, you're saying that the Armour tanking skills and mods are useless because your favourite ship doesn't armour tank anymore? Well, you're in luck - most of the ships in the game Armour tank, you skills and mods will be put to good use ;) If you've got lots of missile and armour tank SP, Khanid are just made for you, and some caldari ships do very well armour-tanked. Originally by: Blane Xero Now to be half as useful as i am on TQ now, the minute Trinity goes live (next week), i'll have to do another god knows how long amount of training, in SHIELDS and LASERS. No, you don't. There are always other options - just sell it and get another ship. By the way, if you're skilled Amarr and missed out on lasers, it is a kind of strange training regime you've had. But, still - train for Khanid ships. Originally by: Blane Xero i'd rather have split weapons than a shield tanking cap-hogging laser boat... i frequently suffer from connection congestion, meaning short lag spikes every so often, now, with armor tanking, thats not a problem, you can run 2 large reps and not cap-out easily with my TQ settup, but if i shield tank, and get a spike at the wrong moment, bye cap, or bye shields, either is bad news. In short its been a great waste of a subscription of the last 9 or so months..thanks for that. Your connection is really your own problem and shouldn't be worrying CCP, and if you think armour tanking and missile skills are a waste, you're being dumb. Seriously. Most of the ships in the game use armour tanking, and a third of ships gets some benefit out of missile skills. Originally by: Blane Xero Oh, also not to mention the overpriced loltastic shield mods costs... I think T2 LSB costs preety much as a T2 LAR. If you're one of the faction mod ***s, well, you don't have to faction-fit ships to be effective, or even to fly faction ships to be effective at everything. If you want something for e-peen contests, pay for it, man. Originally by:** Taius Pax Edited by: Taius Pax on 29/11/2007 07:14:22 I feel your pain... I spent hundreds of millions kitting out my Succubus with True Sansha pulse lasers and Domination Rocket launchers. I'm kind of **ed all that time i put into rockets and the money dropped on the launchers is basically **ed away. Rocket SP is hardly wasted. Buy a Malediction/Vengeance/Kestrel and they're your primary weapon system and rather ineffective without rocket SP while becoming decent weapon systems when you do have the SP. Also, Tristans and Merlins use a 2/2 weapon layout, so both need rocket SP to be really effective, and Rifters and their T2 variants have typically one rocket launcher in addition to guns. Which is the reason the next thing (after heat) I'll be getting are T2 rockets and a bit better rocket skills to give me even more DPS. Plus, you can sell the launchers, don't be silly, they're not wasted money. I'll take them off for a mil each
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Elite	Posted - 2007.11.29 17:56:00 - [44] Originally by: Mitsuni Abashadoni If this comes as a shock to you, you really haven't been paying attention, the changes have been on the forums for almost two months (thread about it). To paraphrase perfection; the plans have been on display in Ships and Modules for two of your earth-months, if you can't be bothered to take an interest in your own situation, that's your own fault :) I stopped playing for about 3 months due to Computer trouble, real life issues, and general crappy experiences with my training plan. I decided since most of the Trinity changes were live, i would see what CCP has in store for us all.. and in true Murphies Law the only real thing i had in eve is now useless to me for 4+ months, plus its now completely ineffective in amarr-based missions due to lack of EM resistances, plus if you look above you will see why i dislike, and stay away form shield tanking. Show me a ship that performs as well as the old nightmare in amarr based missions after trinity that armor tanks and i'll shuttup, fact is there just is not, the nightmares split weapon system meant angel/gurista missions didnt take 4+ hours due to their high EM/Therm resists. I'm only taking a personal interest because this, all in all, ends my only reason for being here, when i had hoped that after trinity, i could return to eve full-time..suddenly hoping not so much... Welcome to EvE
NightmareX Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.11.29 21:43:00 - [45] Originally by: 000Hunter000 Can i have ur nightmare? NO, since i have the name Nightmare here, then the ship belongs to me if he's giving it away LOL
Celeste Coeval The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2007.11.29 21:51:00 - [46] Originally by: Blane Xero Since this terror was first seen haunting the spacelanes a year and a half ago, it has been the subject of persistent rumors to the effect that its design bears the indelible stamp of long-dead Sansha's own madness. Who else, the conspiracy theorists argue, could come up with such marvelously twisted designs? This. Answered your own question. EvE Online. Originally by: Death Kill Go travel or live in the rainforest if neccesary, just dont turn to religion as its a cul de sac.
Garia666 Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E	Posted - 2007.11.29 21:54:00 - [47] sigh.. sorry to hear m8.. its actualy very terrible last couple of patche`s ->My Vids<-

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