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Suitonia Gallente interimo A.F.K	Posted - 2007.11.29 17:05:00 - [61] I know, but it's still a general buff (Albiet a bit useless for t2 capable pilots), and not only towards Caldari of course, Low SP minmatar shield tankers will also benefit. I was generally trying to make fun of the OP, by adding another 'caldari buff' to his list :D. --- I've always wondered about those Vagabond pilots...
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.29 17:18:00 - [62] Originally by: Plaetean Stop bloody crying and just play the game. Id like to lock your char so he can only fly omen and apoc for a month. Then you show up on forums say they suck. Then Ill say "Stop bloody crying and just play the game". Maybe a quote is in order: -Its easy to be brave behind castle walls
Incantare Caldari Kernel of War Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.11.29 17:21:00 - [63] Originally by: Suitonia I know, but it's still a general buff (Albiet a bit useless for t2 capable pilots), and not only towards Caldari of course, Low SP minmatar shield tankers will also benefit. I was generally trying to make fun of the OP, by adding another 'caldari buff' to his list :D. It's a nerf to best named as well which is imo more important than the t1 / low meta shield boosters.
KD.Fluffy The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.29 17:57:00 - [64] Originally by: Brodde Dim Edited by: Brodde Dim on 29/11/2007 10:31:33 Edited by: Brodde Dim on 29/11/2007 10:31:00 Fellow contenders, we can finally give you the preliminary score from the last forum whining contest. To no suprise, its another victory for the veterans of the caldari whine squads, and this time it wasnt much of a fight. While we are still counting points, the results so far are: Caldari = +14 Minmatar = 0 Amarr = -5 Gallente = -15 And while the complete list of wins and losses would be to long for one post, I will just point out the ones that actually does matter to the final score. (Only nerfs/boosts where the ships role (bonuses) are affected, and general changes that affect most ships). Gallente: Eos: - drone bay - gun slots - drone bandwidth - scoop drone healing - Gang link, info superiority nerfed Myrmid: - drone bandwidth - scoop drone healing Ishkur - drone bandwidth - scoop drone healing Dominix - scoop drone healing Vexor - scoop drone healing Ishtar - scoop drone healing Celestis - RSD efficiency Arazu - RSD efficiency Lachesis - Lachesis RSD efficiency Amarr - Tracking computers nerfed Curse: - TD efficiency - drone bandwidth - scoop drone healing + neut cap use Pilgrim - TD efficiency - drone bandwidth - scoop drone healing + neut cap use Minmatar: - Tracking computers nerfed Typhoon: + Torp damage Caldari: + ship agility to most ships Raven: + Torp damage Scorpion: + ECM efficiency + ECM cap use Falcon: + ECM efficiency + ECM cap use Rook: + ECM efficiency + ECM cap use Blackbird: + ECM efficiency + ECM cap use Griffin + ECM efficiency + ECM cap use Nighthawk + Gang link cap use reduced (boost for passive tank) Vulture + Gang link cap use reduced (boost for passive tank) Once again CCP balances the game with the precission of a blind man performing life saving surgery with a chainsaw, with guidance from a blood thirsty audience. The question now is; Will the up and coming Gallente whining team take the challenge and try to recover? They have made a huge improvement and shown strong will the last couple of weeks. And will Amarr finally give up? Is this post a whine? Offcourse it is. If one thing is to be learned from this next patch, it is that whining works. More forum whining will give you good stuff. And for those who dont want to whine? Tough luck. Ok, Caldari whiners, show me your flaming skills. *Edit: Added Neut cap use boost, and boosts for griffin. dude go cry somewhere else. Caldari SORELY needed some buffs, im sorry another race might actually have a chance to kill your gallente boats now. Boost The Eagle!
Khes	Posted - 2007.11.29 18:10:00 - [65] Originally by: Brodde Dim Originally by: Khes So do you mean that Caldari didn't need for example a ship agility boost and it will instead only make things unbalanced ??? I dont say anything about the changes, I just count them. Sorry, I must have missunderstood you when you said this: Originally by: Brodde Dim Instead of fine tuning, they create new imbalances.
Darahk J'olonar Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.11.29 18:13:00 - [66] Umm whoopedee doo! Raven gets torp boost! Now take said shield tanked raven and put it in front of a passive tanked geddon w/ MP II and conflag. Answer... dead raven. Caldari in general in PvP sucked ass and now they may actually have some ability to do something and everyone cries. The Gal nerf was coming and it is sorely overdue because any BC that can omgwtfbbqpwn most BS and under, read myrmidon, needed to be whacked a bit. The Eos nerf is fully justified and I have no problem with it. Min are fine the way they are. Amarr all we ask for is what we have been asking for forever a REAL second bonus instead of the reduced crap on lasers which should be a given on Amarr ships to begin with. Otherwise not too bad at all.
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.29 18:24:00 - [67] Caldari = +4 Minmatar = 1 Amarr = -2 Gallente = -8 Gallente: - scoop drone healing (Ikshur, Vexor, Myrmidon, Dominix, Eos) - RSD Effectiveness (Celestis, Arazu, Lachesis) Eos - drone bay - gun slots - drone bandwidth - Gang link, info superiority nerfed Myrmidon - drone bandwidth Ishkur - drone bandwidth Amarr - TD efficiency (Arbitrator, Pilgrim, Curse) - scoop drone healing (Arbitrator, Pilgrim, Curse) Minmatar: Typhoon: + Torp damage Caldari: + ship agility to most ships + ECM efficiency (Griffin, Blackbird, Falcon, Scorpion) + ECM cap use (Kitsune, Griffin, Blackbird, Falcon, Rook, Scorpion) Raven: + Torp damage A bit more unbiased. Liang -- Retired forum *****. Plz tell me to STFU. Yarr?
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.11.29 18:27:00 - [68] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Plaetean Stop bloody crying and just play the game. Id like to lock your char so he can only fly omen and apoc for a month. Then you show up on forums say they suck. Then Ill say "Stop bloody crying and just play the game". Maybe a quote is in order: -Its easy to be brave behind castle walls I wouldnt mind flying an apoc tbh. 800mm AC + barrage and medium ecm drones or heavy neut+nos setup. Im gonna try it soonish ^^ _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Cailais Amarr W A R	Posted - 2007.11.29 18:30:00 - [69] Caldari win hands down. And the Onyx - jeesh, nigh on unstoppable, FFA4 (cruiser ffa) on sisi is wall to wall Onyx's. Meanwhile, still waiting after 2 years are the Amarr that the devs are 'looking into'. Welcome indeed to Caldari Online. C. Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Dehumanisation - griefers are cool and if you are not a griefer, you do not belong here.
Tovarishch Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.11.29 18:36:00 - [70] I love when children whine about whining. The irony is enjoyable. The OP is ridiculous. The exaggerated manner in which you attempt to present the new balance changes makes your agenda obvious. Caldari have needed many changes for a long while now... and Gallente have needed some nerfing. To be honest, the Caldari changes, while very welcome, still don't address the missile velocity issues. Regardless, continue to whine about whining. My crusade for faster missiles.

Jezala Repo Industries	Posted - 2007.11.29 19:51:00 - [71] OP **** up on this big time. First big mistake was treating this buff/nerf point tally crap as a zero-sum game. I don't know where you got the idea, but when you balance a design it is not a requirement (much less recommended) that you must make changes based on a "equivalent trade" principle. That's just plain ignorant to treat the buffs/nerfs in a closed system environment. Second mistake was failing to add a weighted value to each of the buffs/nerfs. Can you honestly say that that ECM cap buff is 5 times more important than the torp buff? All you're doing is skewing the numbers to make your argument appear to look legit. Third mistake was that you failed to scrub the patch notes for all direct and indirect changes that may buff/nerf each race. That's just ***** sloppy of you. Do yourself a favor and redo your data collection and analysis properly and objectively.
Haradgrim Caldari The Wild Bunch INTERDICTION	Posted - 2007.11.29 21:05:00 - [72] Ok here is the reality of it Pre-patch: Solo PvP ranking: 1. Minmatar 2. Gallente 3. Caldari 4. Amarr Gang PVP Ranking 1. Gallente 2. Minmatar 3. Caldari 4. Amarr Fleet PVP ranking 1. Gallente 2. Caldari 3. Minmatar 4. Amarr (this is more or less a tie between Amarr and Minmatar) After the Patch: Solo PvP ranking: 1. Minmatar 2. Gallente 3. Caldari 4. Amarr Gang PVP Ranking 1. Gallente 2. Minmatar 3. Caldari 4. Amarr Fleet PVP ranking 1. Gallente 2. Caldari 3. Minmatar 4. Amarr Stop whining, Caldari have needed a buff since Amarr were still good! But yes, I feel sorry for the Amarr, and the tracking disrupter nerf really is rediculous, talk about adding insult to injury lol Your signature exceeds the byte me limit allowed on the forums-Darth Patches Oh Noes!
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.29 21:10:00 - [73] Originally by: Haradgrim Ok here is the reality of it Pre-patch: Solo PvP ranking: 1. Minmatar 2. Gallente 3. Caldari 4. Amarr Erm, No. 1. Gallente 2. Minmatar 3. Amarr 4. Caldari Quote: Gang PVP Ranking 1. Gallente 2. Minmatar 3. Caldari 4. Amarr 1. Caldari 2. Amarr 3. Minmatar 4. Galante Quote: Fleet PVP ranking 1. Gallente 2. Caldari 3. Minmatar 4. Amarr (this is more or less a tie between Amarr and Minmatar) Sure... Quote: After the Patch: Solo PvP ranking: 1. Minmatar 2. Gallente 3. Caldari 4. Amarr 1. Minmatar 2. Caldari 3. Amarr 4. Gallente Quote: Gang PVP Ranking 1. Gallente 2. Minmatar 3. Caldari 4. Amarr 1. Caldari 2. Amarr 3. Minmatar 4. Gallente Quote: Fleet PVP ranking 1. Gallente 2. Caldari 3. Minmatar 4. Amarr 1. Caldari 2. Minmatar 3. Amarr 4. Gallente Much more likely. Liang -- Retired forum *****. Plz tell me to STFU. Yarr?
Rudy Metallo G.H.O.S.T	Posted - 2007.11.29 21:23:00 - [74] Originally by: the thorn Edited by: the thorn on 29/11/2007 08:06:54 Originally by: Bellum Eternus Don't use multispecs. blackbird with 3 multispec jammers is not cap stable blackbird with 4 racial jammers is not cap stable (using the goodol All level V) (nothing else, you dont have slots for cap mods anyway.) Try 2 Multispecs and a Racial. Or hell, get creative and have a cap transfer ship right next to you (Augoror is a cheap and easy-to-use one I can think of) --
Haradgrim Caldari The Wild Bunch INTERDICTION	Posted - 2007.11.29 21:42:00 - [75] Originally by: Liang Nuren LOTS OF QUOTE STUFF I'll concede your point about Caldari being the worst at solo combat pre-patch, that was really just a shot at Amarr (). So what you are saying is that post-patch: Caldari have a better solo-pvp ship than the Domi (amarr too for that matter according to your list) Caldari have a ship(s) you feel is/are better than the Vaga or Sabre, and to a lesser extent mega, deimos, domi, etc in a small gang? Somehow your believe that the mega and hyperion will make worse fleet snipers than laser boats, or that the tracking nerf didnt effect the rokh..... at least the mega has a damage and tracking bonus which will reduce the impact of the changes..... These changes have enabled Caldari to be more than the cannon fodder they have been for quite some time. I do agree however that Amarr got nerfed when they didnt need it. Your signature exceeds the byte me limit allowed on the forums-Darth Patches Oh Noes!
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2007.11.29 21:45:00 - [76] Sucks to be Gallente, and the best bit is now your ships are baby blue OP and his supporters need to stop crying because every ship they have is no longer at the top of its class. The Amarr have it worse than Gallente talk about kicking someone when their down. Originally by: Tortun Nahme CCP also condones thinking, I suggest you try it from tiem to time
OOOSOOO Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.11.29 21:48:00 - [77] Woot! Caldari pwns you allzorz!!! ---------------------------------- I post therefore I am bored at work.
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2007.11.29 21:53:00 - [78] Originally by: OOOSOOO Woot! Caldari pwns you allzorz!!! All yea bow down to the floating head of wisdom! Originally by: Tortun Nahme CCP also condones thinking, I suggest you try it from tiem to time
Haradgrim Caldari The Wild Bunch INTERDICTION	Posted - 2007.11.29 21:54:00 - [79] Now that I think about it, I can't believe the irony of Gallente Pilots posting ZOMGZ CALDARI ARE LIKE WTFPWN AT PVP! NERF CALDARI! Welcome Gallente players to our world! lol Your signature exceeds the byte me limit allowed on the forums-Darth Patches Oh Noes!
Ulstan	Posted - 2007.11.29 21:55:00 - [80] Yes yes, I'm sure all the gallente are sad that we're moving away from "Gallente Online". Really, gallente got handed far more nerfs than caldari did buffs, and that's why you're upset.

Exlegion Caldari New Light Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.29 21:57:00 - [81] Edited by: Exlegion on 29/11/2007 21:58:33 Originally by: OOOSOOO Woot! Caldari pwns you allzorz!!! You're a floating head. On topic: Caldari are going to just OMGWHY!1WTFPWNOOOO!!1!BBQ!!1 EVERYTHING according to the score we just got from the OP . /in Eric Cartman's voice/ Sweet. /end/ One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Guru
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.29 22:05:00 - [82] Originally by: Ulstan Yes yes, I'm sure all the gallente are sad that we're moving away from "Gallente Online". Really, gallente got handed far more nerfs than caldari did buffs, and that's why you're upset. Yeah, I think "we're" all more upset by the nerfs than the Caldari buffs. ;-) Liang -- Retired forum *****. Plz tell me to STFU. Yarr?
Atsuko Ratu Caldari Advanced Logistics	Posted - 2007.11.29 22:31:00 - [83] Edited by: Atsuko Ratu on 29/11/2007 22:32:47 Woo, ecm is slightly more effective and the 1% of raven pilots that use torps in pvp (or use the raven in pvp at all) will now do dps on par with other gank ships. Also, op forgot to add '-1' to caldari for losing easy-pveing, a fact that many a carebear still whine about. Not trying to start a cruisemissle-pve-r rant The gal nerfs were light ('cept the Eos, roffle) and needed in my opinion, and I've never viewed Amarr as being that far behind anyone; lasers have always been the coolest weapon and the Amarr ships are just pretty I put scoop-deploy nerf into the "fix" bin simply because nearly every pvp ship relys on drones in one way or another.
Brodde Dim	Posted - 2007.11.29 22:58:00 - [84] Originally by: Paulo Damarr Sucks to be Gallente, and the best bit is now your ships are baby blue OP and his supporters need to stop crying because every ship they have is no longer at the top of its class. The Amarr have it worse than Gallente talk about kicking someone when their down. You are assuming that I fly mostly gallente ships. Wich isnt true, I fly mostly amarr and caldari. This is beside the point though, the first post is not about the ships, it is about whining, and when it results in over zealous balancing actions. And the blue gallente T1 scheme is a lot better than the rust colored caldari T2 =)
Atsuko Ratu Caldari Advanced Logistics	Posted - 2007.11.29 23:07:00 - [85] Originally by: Brodde Dim Originally by: Paulo Damarr Sucks to be Gallente, and the best bit is now your ships are baby blue OP and his supporters need to stop crying because every ship they have is no longer at the top of its class. The Amarr have it worse than Gallente talk about kicking someone when their down. You are assuming that I fly mostly gallente ships. Wich isnt true, I fly mostly amarr and caldari. This is beside the point though, the first post is not about the ships, it is about whining, and when it results in over zealous balancing actions. And the blue gallente T1 scheme is a lot better than the rust colored caldari T2 =) Yet another nerf to Caldari, sigh I want baby blue colored ships damn it.
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2007.11.29 23:20:00 - [86] Originally by: Brodde Dim You are assuming that I fly mostly gallente ships. Wich isnt true, I fly mostly amarr and caldari. This is beside the point though, the first post is not about the ships, it is about whining, and when it results in over zealous balancing actions. And the blue gallente T1 scheme is a lot better than the rust colored caldari T2 =) If your so concerned about balance the first thing you need to do is understand that one items boost is not another items nerf. The second thing you need to do is look at the wider picture and not just your own modified toys, for example the drone scoop nerf affects all the races not just the Gallente and it can be argued that the Gallente drone ships suffer less than other races ships because they can carry spares and its the same with RSDs every race is using them so they are all affected, it does hit the Gallente recons more but at least your EW module has consistent effects that can relied on to do what the specs say every time the Caldari ECM is still chance based and next to useless on the unbonused ships where as RSDs still may have some use. Originally by: Tortun Nahme CCP also condones thinking, I suggest you try it from tiem to time
Brodde Dim	Posted - 2007.11.29 23:38:00 - [87] Originally by: Paulo Damarr If your so concerned about balance the first thing you need to do is understand that one items boost is not another items nerf. The second thing you need to do is look at the wider picture and not just your own modified toys, for example the drone scoop nerf affects all the races not just the Gallente and it can be argued that the Gallente drone ships suffer less than other races ships because they can carry spares and its the same with RSDs every race is using them so they are all affected, it does hit the Gallente recons more but at least your EW module has consistent effects that can relied on to do what the specs say every time the Caldari ECM is still chance based and next to useless on the unbonused ships where as RSDs still may have some use. Haha, thank you for your thoughts, but you havent read anything have you? The thread isnt about balance. I have not compared the ships to each other, or even the changes to eachother. It was about how much is done at once. The point was whining and overcompensation. One items boost could make another item less usefull. But in this case it is 1 kind of EW that gets boosted, while 2 other gets a huge nerf. The original list does not include every ship that is affected, because since every race use drones and RSD, it will even out. The list only includes ship that gets hit harder since they are specialized in it. Quote: at least your EW module has consistent effects that can relied on to do what the specs say every time the Caldari ECM is still chance based and next to useless on the unbonused ships where as RSDs still may have some use. If it isnt on a specialized ship it is not a gallente module. The only time when race matters to EW is when they have a bonus for it on their ships. And to a limited effect when it only works on certain setups like TDs. And why did you quote me saying that I usually dont fly gallente ships, and then reply with "your gallente toys" =)
Kruel Blunt Force Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.30 00:10:00 - [88] Aside from the Eos getting it's balls chopped off, I don't see Gallente being dethroned by Caldari in pvp. TBH Caldari needed a little something. I'm more upset about the TC, SB, and TD nerfs. Tracking Comps and Sensor Boosters were fine. CCP are "balancing" fleet warfare by nerfing mods that were never overpowered in other situations (PVE, small gang warfare). And the TD nerf... wtf? When the hell EVER were Tracking Disruptors overpowered??? I just don't understand that one. As for damps... yeah they needed to be nudged down a bit. But damps were the only thing keeping the Curse alive. Not sure what I'll do with my favorite recon now.
Danjira Ryuujin Caldari	Posted - 2007.11.30 00:18:00 - [89] Edited by: Danjira Ryuujin on 30/11/2007 00:21:01 Originally by: Brodde Dim To no suprise, its another victory for the veterans of the caldari whine squads, and this time it wasnt much of a fight. Thats comical. The Amarr B-team is a better whine squad than the Caldari A-team. Gallente has put together an impressive whine squad this last patch too. I'm looking forward to future forum whinefests. Amarr - Annoying the Eve Community since 2005
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2007.11.30 00:26:00 - [90] Originally by: Brodde Dim Haha, thank you for your thoughts, but you havent read anything have you? Its you that hasn't read anything, check this:- Originally by: Brodde Dim And why did you quote me saying that I usually dont fly gallente ships, and then reply with "your gallente toys" In fact I posted "you need to do is look at the wider picture and not just your own modified toys" Originally by: Brodde Dim The thread isnt about balance. Really? what does this mean then? Originally by: Brodde Dim when it results in over zealous balancing actions. Originally by: Brodde Dim The original list does not include every ship that is affected, because since every race use drones and RSD, it will even out. ) I'm missing the part where a biased and lopsided set of bunkum statistics that is little more than a poor attempt to justify your "Caldari online" rant evens itself out. You even sum your own thread up perfectly, Originally by: Brodde Dim it is about whining twice Originally by: Brodde Dim The point was whining The amount of changes to a race is irrelevant its the actual changes themselves and how they fit into the larger picture. Originally by: Tortun Nahme CCP also condones thinking, I suggest you try it from tiem to time



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