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Gsharp
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Posted - 2007.11.29 18:48:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Gsharp on 29/11/2007 18:48:29
I am a new player - that being stated - I thought that the advantage to Armor tanking is that it costs less power per point of armor being tanked versus a shield tanker. So that is a reason to select armor tanking over shield tanking.
That would be weighed against using shield tanking where you have the option to go and redock to gain shields.
They both have an advantage.
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FawKa
Gallente
x13
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Posted - 2007.11.29 18:54:00 -
[32]
God you hit it right on ! Freaking awsome 
Drone HP bonus plesae
Drone dmg mods please
Now CCP,kthxbuy
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For Sisi; Running:
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Augeas
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Posted - 2007.11.29 18:58:00 -
[33]
 Quote:
Erm, unless somethings changed you do require a station to dock in. They don't follow you around...
Aha. Not only will Trinity see the introduction of mobile stations that follow Caldari ships around, but those pilots will be able to dock at them without an aggression timer and, whilst docked, their enemy will remain scrammed and under missile fire!
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Angel DeMorphis
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.11.29 19:20:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Angel DeMorphis on 29/11/2007 19:21:11
Originally by: Augeas
Quote:
Erm, unless somethings changed you do require a station to dock in. They don't follow you around...
Aha. Not only will Trinity see the introduction of mobile stations that follow Caldari ships around, but those pilots will be able to dock at them without an aggression timer and, whilst docked, their enemy will remain scrammed and under missile fire!
Well, close. Since we're comparing it to drones, it's really the station that would be controlled by the player, and they send out little Drakes to bite at their enemy...
So, really, I'm not understanding this thread. Caldari ship = Drone how? So a shield tanker gets his tank recharged when docking. If you think that's vastly superior, you fly it and try it in battle. Don't forget if you actually want to try to tackle your target you'll need a gang or need to sacrifice your tank. But apparently the station recharge thing makes shield tankers uber PvPers, so go ahead and get into it.
And while you're at it, I hope you notice the sarcasm dripping through the whole last paragraph. But while we're making shield tanking = armor tanking inside the station, let's make it equal outside, too. Let's let the shield tankers be able to fit cap rechargers and/or cap boosters in the low slots, along with MWDs, webifiers, and scramblers, because if they want to keep an active tank alive and PvP as easily as an armor tanker does they'll need that. Congrats. All tanking has just become equal in Eve, the only difference being what line of the HUD things appear at.
Oh, I'm sorry, but you were really just trying to equate a couple hundred thousand ISK piece of equipment to a couple hundred million ISK piece, an AI controlled piece of equipment to a player controlled one.
Get over your drone and STFU.
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Joza Gulikoza
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Posted - 2007.11.29 19:55:00 -
[35]
Originally by: August Personage
Originally by: Avataris
Edited by: Avataris on 29/11/2007 12:23:40
by the same logic can you please nerf instant shield recharge for ships that dock up?
As a Gallente armor tanker I would need to either undock to repair my armor myself or pay to have it repped by station services. Meanwhile all the Caldari passive shield tankers are Haxxoring by taking advantage of what surely must be a borderline exploit. Instant shields by docking and undocking.
Surely its the same thing.
its not even remotely the same thing, station=big, spaceships=not as big. something big is likely to have facilities on hand to pump energy into a ship, recharging its shield and cap. something not as big, is not (unless you fit a shield transfer to your ship as someone else suggested here)
your overpowered *****mobiles have been balanced. get over it. stop crying.
One might wonder why that facility inside those big stations doesn't also repair your armor while we're at it?
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Avataris
The first genesis
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2007.11.29 19:58:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Angel DeMorphis
Edited by: Angel DeMorphis on 29/11/2007 19:21:11
stuff.
You've clearly missed the point entirely.
Everything in Eve has a price, whether it be time, or ISK, or both.
The fact that shields and cap are recharged when you dock/undock means there is no cost associated with it, its free, apart from the short space of time it takes to do this.
If cap/shields recharged at their natural rates inside the station, you would then have a choice: you can pay to fill up, undock and boost, or wait until the natural recharge was finished.
Tactically this would be more interesting. It would impact on people who like to play dock/undock games. It would create a cost.
I've not said a word about the drone changes, the only comparison I have made is that both have instant recharge of shields, and one is being changed.
What I have suggested impacts on armor tankers too.
Thank you for your comments.
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Jezala
Repo Industries
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Posted - 2007.11.29 20:00:00 -
[37]
You know who really gets screwed by this?
It's not the Gallente nor any of the drone boats. It's not your PvPers either.
Mission runners and belt ratters are going to get kicked in the nuts here and they don't realize it yet. The real impact of the change is going to be felt across all races and probably more so by those that don't have a large drone bay or those that can't send out multiple drone waves.
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TimMc
Exanimo Inc
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Posted - 2007.11.29 20:29:00 -
[38]
Originally by: madaluap
I know you started this as a whine, but thats a awesome idea!
Stop insta shieldrecharge. (it will charge slowly in the station)
Stop insta caprecharge. (it will charge slowly in the station)
Change undock-docktimer to 1 minute, instead of 30 sec
Good idea 
/signed there mate
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Dark Flare
Caldari
StateCorp
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2007.11.29 20:37:00 -
[39]
This idea is daft.
Ships are not drones.
You don't have to wait 30seconds to scoop drones in a fight. It's not like anyone can shoot at you til he gets low on shield, then dock and undock again is it?
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.11.29 20:40:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Jezala
You know who really gets screwed by this?
It's not the Gallente nor any of the drone boats. It's not your PvPers either.
Mission runners and belt ratters are going to get kicked in the nuts here and they don't realize it yet. The real impact of the change is going to be felt across all races and probably more so by those that don't have a large drone bay or those that can't send out multiple drone waves.
And by those that don't have big wallets. Every T2 drone lost is the equivalent of a T2 weapon in cost, but it is way easier to loose (even more after Trinity) and less effective.
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Connor Banks
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.11.30 01:05:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Avataris
Edited by: Avataris on 29/11/2007 18:39:05
First read this:
This thread is not a drone whine.
Edited by: Avataris on 29/11/2007 12:23:40
by the same logic can you please nerf instant shield recharge for ships that dock up?
As a Gallente armor tanker I would need to either undock to repair my armor myself or pay to have it repped by station services. Meanwhile all the Caldari passive shield tankers are Haxxoring by taking advantage of what surely must be a borderline exploit. Instant shields by docking and undocking.
Surely its the same thing.
Your logic fails. Please read the explanation below.
To instantly recharge drones when scooped you need energy. That energy would obviously come from the ship itself. So, logically, drones cannot recharge instantly when scooped without draining the ship on cap. However, upon docking to a station with your ship, the drones should recharge their shields due to the assumably free available power similarly to the ship shields.
Shields correspond to a purely energetic field surroudong the ship while armour is a combination of energy and solid plates mounted on the ship. So, armour repair not only needs capacitor but also mending of the plates to recharge. Thus, upon docking with a damaged ship only shields get recharged for free. Do you follow?
Case solved. You are dismissed. Now go back and play...
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Nomakai Delateriel
Amarr
Delictum 23216
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Posted - 2007.11.30 01:24:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Fenren
Originally by: NateX
The option to recharge the shield on your drone in exchange for cap?
/yes please
shield transporters? they do exactley that... and is a high slot module
Now maybe a high slot module that can do it while your drones are in the bay? Without the whole targeting mess.
I'd buy one of those.
______________________________________________
-You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary. |
Bardi MecAuldnis
Amarr
Heretic Army
The Covenant Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.30 01:43:00 -
[43]
Originally by: TimMc
Originally by: madaluap
I know you started this as a whine, but thats a awesome idea!
Stop insta shieldrecharge. (it will charge slowly in the station)
Stop insta caprecharge. (it will charge slowly in the station)
Change undock-docktimer to 1 minute, instead of 30 sec
Good idea
/signed there mate
/thirded
---
Amarr/Caldari, and proud of it.
Hey hey let's go kenka suru!
Taisetsuna mono protect my balls!
Boku ga warui so lets fighting!
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Avataris
The first genesis
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2007.11.30 09:24:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Connor Banks
Originally by: Avataris
Edited by: Avataris on 29/11/2007 18:39:05
First read this:
This thread is not a drone whine.
------------------------------------------------------
Your logic fails. Please read the explanation below.
To instantly recharge drones when scooped you need energy. That energy would obviously come from the ship itself. So, logically, drones cannot recharge instantly when scooped without draining the ship on cap. However, upon docking to a station with your ship, the drones should recharge their shields due to the assumably free available power similarly to the ship shields.
Shields correspond to a purely energetic field surroudong the ship while armour is a combination of energy and solid plates mounted on the ship. So, armour repair not only needs capacitor but also mending of the plates to recharge. Thus, upon docking with a damaged ship only shields get recharged for free. Do you follow?
Case solved. You are dismissed. Now go back and play...
Spare me the pseudo-science.
What we are talking about is game mechanics.
I realise there will be resistance from people who enjoy playing lamer dock/undock games, abusing the current inconsistency that shields and cap recharge instantly when a ship docks/undocks.
Ofcourse you will complain, you've been getting something free - why should you pay for it now?
But in the interest of balance and fairness, it makes sense that there should be a cost connected to dock/undock tactics, that cost should be ISK or time. As explained earlier there is currently no cost.
No cost = out of kilter with the rest of the game. That means its imbalanced.
Stop instashield recharge (shields charge slowly when docked)
Stop instacap recharge (shields charge slowly when docked)
Increase dock/undock timer from 30sec to 1minute.
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Cedric Diggory
Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps
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Posted - 2007.11.30 09:29:00 -
[45]
I see your logic.
In my mind, the simplest solution is either a) increase the time required to undock after docking to one or two minutes or b) remove the instant shield recharge and the undock timer.
I prefer b) as I hate waiting to undock, and it fits with the changes to drones.
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August Personage
Caldari
Clarf Inc
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Posted - 2007.11.30 09:34:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Avataris
I've not said a word about the drone changes
" You nerfed scoop redeploy..." thread title.
do you even read your own posts? this is quite clearly a whine about drone shield recharge being nerfed.
i could make a thread called "You nerfed torp range...." and start saying blaster and projectile fall off should be reduced. but it would be obvious to everyone with half a brain that i would just be angry with the torp ranges (i'm not, 1k dps ravens ftw). in that thread i could also claim "I'M NOT TAKLKING ABOUT TORPS FFS GUYZ" but i would be, because any ******** reason i made for nerfing falloff would be based on the fact that i was disheartened with the torp changes.
you have no RP basis for this change. you have no hard facts that this is destroying the game. you have your obvious anger at ccp for making your drone ships balanced and that is all.
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Cpt Cosmic
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Posted - 2007.11.30 09:49:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Cpt Cosmic on 30/11/2007 09:50:53
all you whiners are an Quote:
EPIC FAIL
if you want to nerf shield tanking, that is nearly useless in pvp except as bait give caldari more mids for scrambler and other ewar stuff and cap like gallente and amarr ones.
fitting a MWD on a shield tanked ship already cripples the tank so much and since shield tanked ships have lower cap then armor tanked there is no reason to whine.
also a heavy shield tanked ships cannot stop you from warping away, if you have problems killing one just run ~~
if you cannot kill one because you suck alone, bring more friends for firepower.
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Connor Banks
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.11.30 09:55:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Avataris
Originally by: Connor Banks
Originally by: Avataris
Edited by: Avataris on 29/11/2007 18:39:05
First read this:
This thread is not a drone whine.
------------------------------------------------------
Your logic fails. Please read the explanation below.
To instantly recharge drones when scooped you need energy. That energy would obviously come from the ship itself. So, logically, drones cannot recharge instantly when scooped without draining the ship on cap. However, upon docking to a station with your ship, the drones should recharge their shields due to the assumably free available power similarly to the ship shields.
Shields correspond to a purely energetic field surroudong the ship while armour is a combination of energy and solid plates mounted on the ship. So, armour repair not only needs capacitor but also mending of the plates to recharge. Thus, upon docking with a damaged ship only shields get recharged for free. Do you follow?
Case solved. You are dismissed. Now go back and play...
Spare me the pseudo-science.
What we are talking about is game mechanics.
I realise there will be resistance from people who enjoy playing lamer dock/undock games, abusing the current inconsistency that shields and cap recharge instantly when a ship docks/undocks.
Ofcourse you will complain, you've been getting something free - why should you pay for it now?
But in the interest of balance and fairness, it makes sense that there should be a cost connected to dock/undock tactics, that cost should be ISK or time. As explained earlier there is currently no cost.
No cost = out of kilter with the rest of the game. That means its imbalanced.
Stop instashield recharge (shields charge slowly when docked)
Stop instacap recharge (shields charge slowly when docked)
Increase dock/undock timer from 30sec to 1minute.
Oh, you mean like all ewar goes in mid slots same as shield tanking, that kind of balance?!?
Shield and armour are two different things, no matter how you view it. Be it either pseudo-science or slotwise...take your pick. Adapt and move on dude...
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Atlanton Marcus
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.11.30 10:03:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Connor Banks
Your logic fails. Please read the explanation below.
To instantly recharge drones when scooped you need energy. That energy would obviously come from the ship itself. So, logically, drones cannot recharge instantly when scooped without draining the ship on cap. However, upon docking to a station with your ship, the drones should recharge their shields due to the assumably free available power similarly to the ship shields.
Shields correspond to a purely energetic field surroudong the ship while armour is a combination of energy and solid plates mounted on the ship. So, armour repair not only needs capacitor but also mending of the plates to recharge. Thus, upon docking with a damaged ship only shields get recharged for free. Do you follow?
Case solved. You are dismissed. Now go back and play...
Sorry, but your logic fails.
In theory, the shield generator actively recharges itself using some of the ship's power supply, and the infinite power of the station allows it happen instantly. So basically, the shield regenerator operates off of the ship's capacitor just like an armor repairer or any other module does. Logically, since the shield regenerator can use the station assisted ship power to repair shields while docked, the armor repairer should be able to utilize that power as well.
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Kirmok
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Posted - 2007.11.30 11:04:00 -
[50]
Why cry nerf? Why not cry buff?
I understand the logic of shields being fully charged upon docking, and armor not, however, to the man/woman crying for a nerf to recharging. Why not make armor recharge too? To full, upon docking? Make the only repair cost go for structure/modules.
Instead of always crying foul and for nerfs, why not offer up a buff alternative?
I'm caldari, but I enjoy all the aspects of eve and try to do some of everything.
What ya all think of the "Kirmok Solution?"
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Avataris
The first genesis
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2007.11.30 12:03:00 -
[51]
You shouldnÆt make assumptions about peoples motives.
Just because I have an Ishtar in my sig doesnÆt mean IÆm annoyed about the drone changes. In fact I welcome them. The Myrm and Eos were completely out of whack with other ships in their class, thereÆs no denying it. The drone scoop/redeploy gave drone ships an unfair edge in PvP.
IÆm big enough and have been playing this game long enough to know when somethingÆs wrong and needs a fix.
You need an RP reason before you can admit youÆre wrong? Cap and Shield are precious commodities in Eve. Cap is often referred to as life. To create cap or shield usually requires some investment, whether that investment be time (waiting for natural recharge) or ISK (cap boosters, shield mods).
In fact there is even an exchange rate between cap and shields, a trade-off if you like. So why would station services be handing the stuff out for free? There is clearly profit to be made from it, and thatÆs all the reason they need.
The fact that you can create both cap and shields instantly at 0 cost just by docking/undocking is clearly broken. You canÆt possibly deny that.
The evidence of this broken game mechanic is everywhere. I shouldnÆt even have to explain what IÆm talking about, anyone whoÆs encountered station hugging dock/undockers (usually in shield tanking ships I might add) will know what IÆm talking about. What I am suggesting is a nerf to dock/undock tactics that will impact not only on shield tankers, but on armor tankers too.
The choices are simple:
Wait until natural recharge completes (a tactical delay between docking/undocking)
Pay to have your shields/cap recharged (inline with having armor/hulls repaired + a new ISK sink)
Refit undock and rep yourself.
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Khes
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Posted - 2007.11.30 12:05:00 -
[52]
I don't mind if shields were not insta-charged when docked as long as it still would re-charged as normal like shields do.
But to take away the shield insta-charge when docking for the reason that armour or drones does not insta-charge and it would not be fair otherwise, it is just bonkers. Then you should also change HP-rate, activation cost, time, slot-placement and everything else to make shields and armour work exactly the same to be fair. But do we really want shields and armour to work exactly the same. Not me.
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Odium47
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Posted - 2007.11.30 12:53:00 -
[53]
:((
...whinner ...
muhahahahhahahahahah
The station is suposed to have lots of energy and facilities, therefore should recharge shields and capacitor. End of discussion.
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Dreadmuppet Four
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Posted - 2007.11.30 12:59:00 -
[54]
oh well, looks like it back to the crap old days where everyone flies the same ships.
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Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Elite
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Posted - 2007.11.30 13:01:00 -
[55]
WTS : Clue
That is all...
Welcome to EvE |
Avataris
The first genesis
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2007.11.30 14:02:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Avataris on 30/11/2007 14:02:23
:((...whinner ...muhahahahhahahahahah
The station is suposed to have lots of energy and facilities, therefore should recharge shields and capacitor. End of discussion
----------------------
This is a non-argument. Just because thatÆs how it is doesnÆt mean itÆs right. The same argument could be used to support free instant armor rep in stations. It doesnÆt even begin to address the real issue, which is the abuse of game mechanics by people who play dock/undock games, and the fact that shield tankers can have a free instant top up of their main defensive systems, whilst armor tankers have to pay.
Check your spelling.
-------------------------------------
oh well, looks like it back to the crap old days where everyone flies the same ships.
---------------------------------------
IÆm not proposing any changes to any ships. All IÆm proposing is a change to dock/undock mechanics to level the playing field as regards cap and shield recharging. You will still have the ability to recharge your shield and cap, but at a cost, either time or ISK. Armor will still not autoheal.
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WTS : ClueThat is all...
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WTS: Ability to communicate in sentences.
I see IÆve stirred up an alt storm of dissent. Station camp much?
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Reacz
Caldari
Empirius Enigmus Navy
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Posted - 2007.11.30 14:09:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Reacz on 30/11/2007 14:10:23
How is this inbalanced in any way what so ever?
You can't dock at a station if you're aggressed and if you happen to slip through a camp and dock, you're hardly going to undock again anyway.
You can however (at the moment) pull your drones in when aggressed and automatically recharge their shields, for free...
Yeah, I agree, nerf station shield recharge.
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Valorem ([email protected]) |
Hugh Ruka
Caldari
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
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Posted - 2007.11.30 14:23:00 -
[58]
well if you are both in armor, the armor tanker has an advantage, he can rep his armor and recharge shield in the station.
if you are both in shields, you can dock too before you hit armor.
where is the problem ?
Originally by: Aravel Thon
Originally by: Nith Batoxxx
Hi my alt just leanred to fly the ferox...............
I am so so terribly sorry...
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Avataris
The first genesis
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2007.11.30 14:45:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Avataris on 30/11/2007 14:45:43
Originally by: Hugh Ruka
well if you are both in armor, the armor tanker has an advantage, he can rep his armor and recharge shield in the station.
if you are both in shields, you can dock too before you hit armor.
where is the problem ?
For a armor tanker to have his armor repaired means he needs to:
1) undock and rep (cost is time + ISK for repping modules)
2) dock & pay for repairs (cost is ISK)
For a shield tanker to have his shield repaired he needs to:
1) undock and wait (cost is time)
2) undock and boost (cost is time + ISK for boosting modules)
3) dock/undock (completely free)
Name me one other thing in the world of Eve that is completely free, both of time and ISK investment, which plays as instrumental a role in PvP as shield and cap recharge.
This is clearly not inline with any other aspect of the game.
There is the problem.
Stop insta shieldrecharge. (it will charge slowly in the station)
Stop insta caprecharge. (it will charge slowly in the station)
Change undock-docktimer to 1 minute, instead of 30 sec
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Vanessa Vale
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Posted - 2007.11.30 15:21:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Vanessa Vale on 30/11/2007 15:22:15
Ah, you gotta love it. Now that they think they are going to actually start losing drones (ooh vulnerable) they start whining and looking for someone to secks in the surprise.
BTW, lets add docking timers to drones too :)
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