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Kritinana
Minmatar
Dark Empire Fleet
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Posted - 2007.11.30 16:30:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: Yuki Santara
Edited by: Yuki Santara on 30/11/2007 02:48:55
Originally by: Kritinana
Me saying stuff
This bump mapping technique does not seem to be used very heavily though and it can't do wonders. A blocky shape will still be a blocky shape, the only thing it can do is to smooth out shapes that are only hinted at with a few polygons or to add surface detail.
Besides, Voltaire's VGA is no slouch and definitely able to render any bump map you throw at it.
My guess is that some models were simply rushed a bit to get this massive update done in a reasonable amount of time. Hopefully some ships and details will be revisited at a later time.
Well, while i do agree that some of the designs have in fact changed from the original, and wether you like it or not is a matter of opinion i suppose. I wouldn't be suprised at all if there was a bit of rushing, 50 manyears is a lot of work no matter how you look at it.
But, back to the technical side, its not really a 'bump' map (similar yes), its normal mapping. It in fact does work wonders and is used very very extensivly. Every single one of the updated models is normal mapped and its this map that all the purdy new detail (in terms of geometry) comes from. Of course there's the addition of specular & occlusion map as well as the post gloom effect.
But, rambling aside, my point was that the models in the game are really not going to be much if any bigger in polycount than pre-trinity. It's all done with clever mapping techniques.
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xeom
Exanimo Inc
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Posted - 2007.11.30 16:34:00 -
[62]
All the minmatar **** looks tight.
And the phoon is now like one of the hottest BS in-game
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*signature removed - please email us to find out why (include a link) - Jacques([email protected])
-Videos-
Viciously Delicious
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Stitcher
Caldari
legion of qui
Terra Incognita.
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Posted - 2007.11.30 16:40:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Voltaire Leriel
Originally by: Verone
You're dis-satisfied with trinity because you've got a sub-par GFX card. Get a top notch card and you'll see the difference.
How will this improve the polygon models? As I understand it, it will only add a few more effects.
Try "will add normal maps"
it's the normal mapping that you're missing out on, and that's what's dragging the apparent quality down.
That said, I actually disagree with you on all counts - in fact, I've disagreed thus far with everyone who's tried to claim that Trinity is making some of the ships look worse.
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"Stitcher" is just a call sign. My name is Verin Tarn-Hakatain. |
Alz Shado
Ever Flow
DeStInY.
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Posted - 2007.11.30 16:48:00 -
[64]
The only complaints about the new Minnie ships is the mastodon with a square head (wtf!?) and the loss of the shiny blue spinnies on the Wreathe/Prowler.
On the other hand, the new Wolf/Jag is sex.
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Agnar Koladrov
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.11.30 16:53:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Agnar Koladrov on 30/11/2007 16:55:10
Originally by: Voltaire Leriel
Stabber
The front part of the stabber leaves much to be desired. It looks almost exactly like the original, only with a few new doodads sticking out of it. The textures seem fine, but this part of the polygon model seems far less nuanced than most of the other ships.
Example
Ever seen the new back side of the new stabber. Tt misses one exhaust plume AND the upper part of the main exhaust plume goes through part of the polygon model, a new 'engine-like' extrusion at the top of the main 'engine'.
Why did the designer that did this job Failed to notice That? Not that you hardy notice it or something.
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Erm....I dunno |
Voltaire Leriel
Minmatar
BIG
Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.11.30 17:57:00 -
[66]
I've seen so many posts sayign that the 7950 won't cut it to get the detail i want, someone with a GF8 please post some screenshots of these ships so i can actually agree/disagree with you.
_________________________________________________________
BIG Corporation Website |
Stitcher
Caldari
legion of qui
Terra Incognita.
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Posted - 2007.11.30 18:03:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Voltaire Leriel
I've seen so many posts sayign that the 7950 won't cut it to get the detail i want, someone with a GF8 please post some screenshots of these ships so i can actually agree/disagree with you.
Funny, I'm running one of those, and everything looks excellent....
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"Stitcher" is just a call sign. My name is Verin Tarn-Hakatain. |
Rob Adams
Gallente
The White Star Consortium
Tenth Legion
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Posted - 2007.11.30 18:05:00 -
[68]
You are flying ships made by a race that admittedly use trash, discarded parts and salvage for construction, and you are complaining because it looks ugly. You can wrap a turd in directx 15, and its still a turd.
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pyr8t
GUNS AND BUTTER
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Posted - 2007.11.30 18:33:00 -
[69]
I agree with this post 110%. Out of the total 50 man-years it took CCP to develop this update, it's clear Minmatar received less than an hour of that time. I find the new Minmatar ship models to be sub par in comparison to every other races graphical update (especially Caldari, who clearly received the most development attention and thus have the best redesigns).
Just to be clear here: I believe the new Minmatar ship models are an improvement over the previous models. But we definitely got the shaft here when it comes down to what's been given to us.
I understand this is all very subjective...but really, the consensus here is that--when you really look at it--Minmatar redesigns aren't cutting it, and I hope something is done.
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Voltaire Leriel
Minmatar
BIG
Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.11.30 18:41:00 -
[70]
BTW, I'd like to thank everyone for all of the replies so far. I hope that CCP will continue to improve the game with our suggestions.
I appreciate the critisism as much as i do the praise - just make sure you can back up what you say - and i'd like to see your screenshots as well.
Before you go agreeing with me, you might want to log onto sisi yourself and take a look - your conclusions may not match mine exactly.
_________________________________________________________
BIG Corporation Website |
Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer
Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2007.11.30 19:21:00 -
[71]
Vagabond and Sleip looks ****. Im ok with the rest being drab.
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Friends Forever
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Methodius
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Posted - 2007.11.30 20:33:00 -
[72]
Originally by: xeom
All the minmatar **** looks tight.
And the phoon is now like one of the hottest BS in-game
Are you f*cking kidding me?! It's beyond lousy. Whoever made it needs to go back to studying graphics modelling and texturing.
Quote:
The Amarr look decent, not as good as the other two but definitely much better than before.
They're, by far, the best ship models in this expansion. Especially the T2 versions - they're spectacular! TBH I haven't seen a bad Amarr ship model yet.
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Kalica Kahn
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.30 20:56:00 -
[73]
You bunch of ungrateful c***s
*sigh*
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Vladimir Ilych
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.11.30 21:01:00 -
[74]
I'll just wait until the 5th and make my own mind up.
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Alz Shado
Ever Flow
DeStInY.
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Posted - 2007.11.30 21:25:00 -
[75]
Counterpoint: At least they're not Baby-Blue.
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HarryManback
Minmatar
Gr0und Zer0
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Posted - 2007.11.30 21:30:00 -
[76]
Cane looks evily sexy.
Tempest needs alot of work. CCP should just start from scratch imo.
Amarr Recon/Electronics Attack Ship/almost Black Ops pilot for auction |
Saphros
Minmatar
Lone Gunmen
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Posted - 2007.11.30 22:21:00 -
[77]
My guess is that they left the Minmatar models to the last minuet...
Ask yourself; if you where a graphic designer what models what would you rather spend time on, Gallente, Caldari, Amarr or Minmatar?
Some of the new Minmatar models are rather disappointing, but I really like the new æevilÆ Muninn and most of the frigates. Guess Minmatars arentÆ supposed to fly larger ships then cruisers anyway?
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Sir Heavy
Perkone
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Posted - 2007.11.30 22:48:00 -
[78]
NOOO! :( now my stabber looks like a that Shrek Kitten :'(
Dan Black rolls over in his grave.
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Leroy Payne
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Posted - 2007.11.30 22:51:00 -
[79]
i think the minnie ships look the best of all of the new models. All that nice red lighting... looks mean 
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Sandreon
Minmatar
Imperial Express
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Posted - 2007.12.01 15:35:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Sandreon on 01/12/2007 15:36:33
Edited by: Sandreon on 01/12/2007 15:35:59
Everyone saying the 7950GT is sub-par is simply wrong. It fully supports all DX9 features, including normal mapping, and there's nothing to be gained by upgrading to an 8-series card image quality wise in DX9 (except for coverage sample antialiasing, but that's not the point).
I had a 7950GT, upgraded to a 8800GTX and guess what, the textures didn't magically improve on their own at all! It's like the people who think buying a HDTV-ready TV will automatically show them a real HDTV picture on all channels..
That aside, I quite like the new more cleaned up look of the matari ships but some elements in the op-s review do bother me as well. I'll see how it looks on Tranquility first (though it'll probably be exactly the same).
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Audio Bully
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Posted - 2007.12.01 15:50:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Audio Bully on 01/12/2007 15:53:04
Edited by: Audio Bully on 01/12/2007 15:52:21
I dont get the OP, somethings are whined about how ugly/boring they are and different they look, where other points tells us that you think things look the same as the old eve engine. Maybe because they are already good and dont need changing.
I'd cross train to amarr tbfh, they are so made out of win with trinity
Great being Amarr isn't it
EDIT: lulz, and please, you wil just get used to the new ships, i sure didnt like ships in eve when i first played it, some were fugly, but through time you start to like them, i even liked the phoon for a while. So please dont whine on forums and say how you 'hope' ccp will take these things itno consideration. Its only a game -.-
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Kimiko Kurosawa
The Krugerrand Groupies
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Posted - 2007.12.01 16:13:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Kalica Kahn
You bunch of ungrateful c***s
*sigh*
QFFT
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Rhatar Khurin
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Posted - 2007.12.01 16:32:00 -
[83]
Just as long as the good ol' Probe still looks awesome, that's all i care about. 
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Lysianna
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Posted - 2007.12.01 16:41:00 -
[84]
That's odd, the screenshots do not look a single bit how I see it in-game. On my client it looks much nicer then those. Are you using the right drivers?
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Infinity Enterprises
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.12.01 16:50:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Kritinana
Originally by: Yuki Santara
Edited by: Yuki Santara on 30/11/2007 02:48:55
Originally by: Kritinana
Me saying stuff
This bump mapping technique does not seem to be used very heavily though and it can't do wonders. A blocky shape will still be a blocky shape, the only thing it can do is to smooth out shapes that are only hinted at with a few polygons or to add surface detail.
Besides, Voltaire's VGA is no slouch and definitely able to render any bump map you throw at it.
My guess is that some models were simply rushed a bit to get this massive update done in a reasonable amount of time. Hopefully some ships and details will be revisited at a later time.
Well, while i do agree that some of the designs have in fact changed from the original, and wether you like it or not is a matter of opinion i suppose. I wouldn't be suprised at all if there was a bit of rushing, 50 manyears is a lot of work no matter how you look at it.
But, back to the technical side, its not really a 'bump' map (similar yes), its normal mapping. It in fact does work wonders and is used very very extensivly. Every single one of the updated models is normal mapped and its this map that all the purdy new detail (in terms of geometry) comes from. Of course there's the addition of specular & occlusion map as well as the post gloom effect.
But, rambling aside, my point was that the models in the game are really not going to be much if any bigger in polycount than pre-trinity. It's all done with clever mapping techniques.
no reason for them to do not increase poly coutns, sicne current video cards can proccess 20 or more times Vertex thatn they did at eve release.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
Sprobe
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Posted - 2007.12.01 19:36:00 -
[86]
yes very true.. really ugly and I dont like flying them.. I am Minmatar.
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Linas IV
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Posted - 2007.12.01 20:36:00 -
[87]
In my opinion most of the new Minmatar ships are fine as they are now on Sisi,
and i personaly really like the new tempest.
(and btw every race got some sub-par ship-designs in trinity, look at the domi ^^)
But there is one thing that really needs to be changed: The nidhoggur!
The new model actually looks a lot worse than the old one.
The old one was the best looking carrier design in eve (excluding the MS) but this is just a joke.
One problem of the design that the author didn't already mention in his post is basicly
the whole bottom of the ship, for example the engines there look like they were just glued onto the ship.
Futhermore many Textures aren't scaled right or are simply the wrong ones
(The engines on the "wings" got windows?!? wtf!)
Why can't the nidhoggur look as awesome as the new archon?
I really hope this isn't the final version that will be ported to TQ......
else i will be seriosly dissappointed.
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Orange pirate
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.12.01 20:50:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Sir Heavy
NOOO! :( now my stabber looks like a that Shrek Kitten :'(
rofl 
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Yuki Santara
Yurai-Tenshin Zaibatsu
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Posted - 2007.12.01 22:58:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Kritinana
Originally by: Yuki Santara
Edited by: Yuki Santara on 30/11/2007 02:48:55
Originally by: Kritinana
Me saying stuff
This bump mapping technique does not seem to be used very heavily though and it can't do wonders. A blocky shape will still be a blocky shape, the only thing it can do is to smooth out shapes that are only hinted at with a few polygons or to add surface detail.
Besides, Voltaire's VGA is no slouch and definitely able to render any bump map you throw at it.
My guess is that some models were simply rushed a bit to get this massive update done in a reasonable amount of time. Hopefully some ships and details will be revisited at a later time.
Well, while i do agree that some of the designs have in fact changed from the original, and wether you like it or not is a matter of opinion i suppose. I wouldn't be suprised at all if there was a bit of rushing, 50 manyears is a lot of work no matter how you look at it.
But, back to the technical side, its not really a 'bump' map (similar yes), its normal mapping. It in fact does work wonders and is used very very extensivly. Every single one of the updated models is normal mapped and its this map that all the purdy new detail (in terms of geometry) comes from. Of course there's the addition of specular & occlusion map as well as the post gloom effect.
But, rambling aside, my point was that the models in the game are really not going to be much if any bigger in polycount than pre-trinity. It's all done with clever mapping techniques.
Yes it's normal mapping and I've been fascinated by its capabilities since Doom 3, but when I say it can't do miracles, I mean that it can't change the contours of a shape. So a cube can't be turned into a David's statue for example and many of the screenshots of the OP clearly show cube like shapes, especially the tail of the Nidhoggur.
It is possible to see if details are polygonal or normal mapped and from what I can tell, it is mainly used for small surface detail and possibly to smooth out the shapes of most Gallente and Amarr ships.
Also most objects in Trinity should actually have quite a few more polygons, they said so quite clearly on fanfest (at the very least I remember some such remark about the stations).
And finally as was pointed out, there simply shouldn't be a lack of graphical capabilities in the OP's graphics card, although the opposite could easily be proven by posting respective screenshots.
This is in no way meant as a criticism of CCP, I just don't think that all responses to the OP have been factually correct and there is no reason not to be straight about a few minor letdowns of the visual upgrade.
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Lucia Warbler
Eve University
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Posted - 2007.12.01 23:23:00 -
[90]
To OP:
Poor Mammoth. It truly has a terrible front now. I liked the original better.
Hmm, Tempest's sides do look interesting. Nicely spotted. Some re-texturing should be done for the patch after next one.
Most of the players have noticed that Hurricane is a bit blocky. The design doesn't leave much room for improvement without fundamentally changing the ship, so I think it's as good as they could make it.
Otherwise, I think they are fine. There's a famous saying: "If it's not broken, don't fix it."
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