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Trinity: Some Minmatar ship models are sub-par.

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Voltaire Leriel Minmatar BIG Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.11.29 23:10:00 - [1] Edited by: Voltaire Leriel on 29/11/2007 23:12:15 Before I begin I must say that Trinity does live up to my expectations in many ways, the stations and stargates look incredible. The Gallente ships look by far the best (and IÆm not usually a fan of their ships) with a great color scheme (though the blue could be a bit darker, it stands out too much in certain lighting) and very detailed models and textures, the Caldari look equally good with a lot of detail even with their blocky ship designs, they still manage to keep the polygon count high. The Amarr look decent, not as good as the other two but definitely much better than before. Then we have the Minmatarà the poor olÆ Minmatar. When will anyone ever cut us a breakà Most of the Minmatar ships look good, to be fair. And the stations and stargates are very well done. However the few ships that look bad, stick out like a bone from a broken arm when compared to the other ships (which are jaw-dropping). But there are several ships that in some ways seem like they are even less appealing than before on certain parts. My main complaint isnÆt that the screenshots and videos donÆt match what IÆm seeing on sisi, itÆs rather that some of the polygon models in the new engine for Minmatar ships are sub-par û especially when compared to the other races. I will even go so far as to say, that in specific parts of certain ships, that the old ship models were actually better. The polygon models arenÆt less detailed because the full expansion isnÆt out yet, or because itÆs only the test server. What is on the test server, art wise, is probably 99% of what weÆll be seeing next week û so I donÆt expect that theyÆll be remolding any of the ships in the next 7 days. Unless of course they read this thread and agree with me immediately and pull some all-nighters. Unlikely. Another thing I would like to establish is that Minmatar ships arenÆt supposed to look ôbadö theyÆre supposed to look rugged and utilitarian, as opposed to sleek and polished. Also, some of the new models, especially models of ships that have been added to the game recently, seem to be almost exactly the same with a few little bumps and doodads added. This is also disappointing. I will provide screenshot evidence below to support these claims. To start, IÆd like to let you know that IÆm running this on a pretty top-notch machine, with all the graphics on both my video cardÆs drivers and the game engine turned all the way up. IÆm running a dual-core 2.4ghz AMD Athlon 64 with a Geforce 7950 GT and 1gb of 800mhz DDR2 in dual channel mode with very tight timings. I will skip all the ships that I think look good/great/awesome/ozom/mozo and skip directly to the ones I have beef with. Overall, the models on most ships I complain about are still better than the old engine (with one exception, IÆll get to it later). IÆm mostly comparing the ships to the other ships in the new expansion. Mammoth Dear lord the Mammoth. Most of the ship looks good, but the front section is terrible. ItÆs very blocky and lacking detail, itÆs also off-center when everything else on the ship is meant to be symmetrical. Bleh. The textures on the front are also very blurry, even from a fair distance away. Example Stabber The front part of the stabber leaves much to be desired. It looks almost exactly like the original, only with a few new doodads sticking out of it. The textures seem fine, but this part of the polygon model seems far less nuanced than most of the other ships. Example Belicose The back end of the Bellicose is a bit boring, but not too bad. Example _________________________________________________________ BIG Corporation Website
Voltaire Leriel Minmatar BIG Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.11.29 23:10:00 - [2] Edited by: Voltaire Leriel on 29/11/2007 23:14:22 Edited by: Voltaire Leriel on 29/11/2007 23:13:21 Cyclone The back end of the Cyclone doesnÆt look very good either, the model is almost exactly like the original. Example Hurricane Also fails to impress, the back end is about the same as the old model and the front looks blocky. The top also looks about the same. Top Example Back Example Front Example Typhoon And my one of my biggest complaints - hands down the ugliest ship in the original EVE engine, the Typhoon. If any ship in the entire game needed a makeover, this one is it (the Scythe is a close second). The sides look decent, but then there is the back endà ItÆs terrible. ItÆs almost as blocky as the original, though the sides of the blocks donÆt look bad, the polygon model is incredibly simplistic and not far from the original. In fact, the small engine on the upper left (when looking at the ship from behind) seems to be less detailed than the original. Example Tempest The Tempest is another ship that fails to impress. The sides of the main body of the ship (when viewed from the front) are still not very detailed. The textures look very blurry even at a fair distance, just as before. The rest of the model is decent, however. Example Maelstrom The Maelstrom looks like itÆs hardly changed at all. Given it looked pretty good already, it still had room for improvement. Compared to the standards set by other ships in the new engine, this ship honestly now looks worse than even the Typhoon. Polygon for polygon, this model has hardly changed one iota. Example Example Nidhoggur I was saving my biggest gripe for last, the ship I spend most of my time in: the Nidhoggur carrier. I have 6 main grips with this ship: -The back end looks like a cardboard box, it used to be sculpted and had many complex shapes, but now itÆs drab and blocky. Example -The ôwingsö on either side just in front of that are also rather blocky and undefined, the engines on the ends of the wings actually have less detail than before, they donÆt have an exhaust at all, just flat metal. Example -The ôteethö on either side of the front of the ship, which were so distinctive in the original model are completely gone. Example -The ôbridgeö towers on the top of the ship also look terrible; the original model had a leg up on this version in that department for sure. Example -The hanger bay is also disappointing, itÆs not as deep or detailed as before and lacks the interesting lighting on its interior that the old model had. ItÆs hard to tell, from this picture, but the new bay is shallower and there is also a gap above it that looks bad. Example -The textures on the huge plates on either side of the ship are also drab and lacking detail. Example _________________________________________________________ BIG Corporation Website
Voltaire Leriel Minmatar BIG Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.11.29 23:11:00 - [3] All in all, the three worst models of Trinity are the Nidhoggur, Maelstrom and Typhoon in that order. The Nidhoggur looks worse than the old engine, the Maelstrom is about the same, and the Typhoon is better but weak in some key areas. Please, we are a down trodden race; half of us are still enslaved. The least you can do is make our ships look on-par with the others in this great expansion! IÆm not asking for you to make the ships exactly the same as before, but to increase the detail on the models in specific places û how you choose to do that is entirely up to you. _________________________________________________________ BIG Corporation Website
Eval B'Stard Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.11.29 23:13:00 - [4] They look fine to me and much as Minmatar ships should look imho ------------------------------------------- When we gonna see the 40km and 80km tractor beams ?
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.29 23:17:00 - [5] Ill agree that the hurricane looks mediocre, but all tier 2 battlecruisers suffer from that at the moment. The Nidhoggurs backside was better with the old version but thats hardly an issue. You're wrong on everything else. -----
d1v1n1ty	Posted - 2007.11.29 23:19:00 - [6] The Cane is hot doods...
RaAshan	Posted - 2007.11.29 23:20:00 - [7] You're computer really sucks ace. Those are the worst quality screen shots I've seen so far. I hope santa's bringin you a vidcard for Christ Mass.
Sobach Gallente Fourth Circle Total Comfort	Posted - 2007.11.29 23:23:00 - [8] Originally by: Voltaire Leriel ...All in all, the three worst models of Trinity are the Nidhoggur, Maelstrom and Typhoon in that order... ...The least you can do is make our ships look on-par with the others in this great expansion! IÆm not asking for you to make the ships exactly the same as before, but to increase the detail on the models in specific places û how you choose to do that is entirely up to you. I guess you missed all the baby blue gallente ships, while you complain of minor graphical differences, my Hyperion gets turned into a mess of pastel white/pink-teal :p keep in mind that the tier 2 bc and tier 3 bs will see little difference in model design, since they were already designed with trinity in mind when they were released.
sythiss	Posted - 2007.11.29 23:23:00 - [9] Ok, here i go, i dont post often, but ive just seen the nidhoggur, ive played eve for a while, ask any corp mate of mine, its been that carrier ive traiend towards, sweated, and worked over, the nerf, Fahh ill cope, but the back end of the ship, it really does look like something i would make with a cardboard box, i know i know if i love the old one so much dont upgrade, But i really was looking forwards to seeing my baby in new, shiny mode, only to have it shiny and a shoe box, Gahh thats a disapointment... erm well thats my little rant over with i guess, signed or whatever im supposed to say really
Verone Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.11.29 23:27:00 - [10] You're dis-satisfied with trinity because you've got a sub-par GFX card. Get a top notch card and you'll see the difference. >>> TRIBUTE TO A FALLEN WINGMAN <<<
Zemeckis R	Posted - 2007.11.29 23:29:00 - [11] don't be ridiculus, minmatar ships looks awsome there are a lot of other race's ships worse than those
Kenneth McCoy Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.11.29 23:30:00 - [12] Edited by: Kenneth McCoy on 29/11/2007 23:30:58 I think the hurricane looks excellent, myself. And the reason why the tier 2 BC's and tier 3 BS's aren't changed as radically as the earlier models has been stated already; they are newer models, and didn't warrant as much love as the already way outdated ones. EDID: Props to the OP for a well thought out, coherent, organized post. I love seeing that. My opinions and views are not the official views of my Corp.
mechtech Silver Snake Enterprise	Posted - 2007.11.29 23:32:00 - [13] I think everything looks fine, with the exception of the Vaga and the Cyclone (way too chunky, used to look sleek and "logistic like").
Saladin Minmatar Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.11.29 23:34:00 - [14] I don't know if anyone else noticed, but the Prowler no longer has its signature neon lights. The lights made that ship look really pimp, and I hope the final model will have that effect. For now, on SiSi, it appears that they have done away with the neons.
Daelorn State War Academy	Posted - 2007.11.29 23:35:00 - [15] Looks good to me.
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.11.29 23:43:00 - [16] They all look pretty amazing to me. Not sure why all the complaints over the Vagabond...I think it looks cool too. Personally I think the Caldari got the biggest shaft in the update as they lack some bling the rest have but even then they mostly look pretty great. Guess it is subjective and nothing the Devs did here would please everybody.
Domania Convergent Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.11.29 23:43:00 - [17] Nidhoggur looks fine other then the missing teeth. Yes I so fly one and I am gonna enjoy the new model. I think of it as a new design released by the Minmatar Military. :P Besides if you don't like the new models you can always not go for the DX9 stuff, it's that simple. :D
Voltaire Leriel Minmatar BIG Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.11.29 23:44:00 - [18] Originally by: Verone You're dis-satisfied with trinity because you've got a sub-par GFX card. Get a top notch card and you'll see the difference. How will this improve the polygon models? As I understand it, it will only add a few more effects. _________________________________________________________ BIG Corporation Website
LUH 3471	Posted - 2007.11.29 23:55:00 - [19] Edited by: LUH 3471 on 29/11/2007 23:59:50 the mammoth front section really is made cheaply i think evryone agrees with that
Hermia Aliastra	Posted - 2007.11.29 23:57:00 - [20] Theres a lot of effort in that post. Yeah, in places the new graphics may take some geting used to and that new mammoth front is interesting Still, lets be honest... good outways the bad.
Neal Cassady Mutually Assured Distraction	Posted - 2007.11.30 00:07:00 - [21] i hate the new vagabond, which sucks cause its the ship i fly the most. the proportions are screwy, and worst of all they screwed up the wings coming off the*****pit. the wings used to be swept back and look cool, now they stick out to the sides like dumbo ears.
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.11.30 00:23:00 - [22] I like them all, ESPECIALLY the phoon and strom changes, the only one that isnt "pretty" is the mammoth and face it mammoths are supposed to be pretty Originally by: Cecil Montague They should change that warning on entering low sec to: "Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
Splagada Minmatar Tides of Silence Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.30 00:29:00 - [23] where are the front wings you find on the vaga? they're not on the stabber?? i didnt try the stab on sisi, but i tried the vaga, and the 2 front wings with all the reflections, were looking simply awesome ok the color made me think it was a "mossabond" but it looks indeed nice :D better than the standard TQ vaga at least :p ------ Proud Janitor of Tides of Silence
sythiss	Posted - 2007.11.30 01:19:00 - [24] i know, its not the graphics that im on about when people refer to dont use it, i love the graphics, im on about that dam box thingy on the back of my carrier now, not the odd, cool sleak shaped thing that it was before, but a chunky, cube thing with an angle on it
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2007.11.30 01:23:00 - [25] Wow, the tail end of the Nid looks horrible. I agree 100% with the rest of your points as well. That really sucks . Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I
Empire marketslave	Posted - 2007.11.30 01:34:00 - [26] thanks a lot you runnined my day ive been waiting for some screen shots of the niddy and now that i saw them its making me want to cry
Xenny Lee Minmatar coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.30 01:54:00 - [27] Edited by: Xenny Lee on 30/11/2007 01:55:36 Originally by: Verone You're dis-satisfied with trinity because you've got a sub-par GFX card. Get a top notch card and you'll see the difference. Amen... What people fail to understand is that Trinity is basically bringing up graphics to shader model 3 and a few elements that are brought out by Dx10, but they didn't want to be the game that alienates people into getting Vista. Your card will support some of the new changes, but many effects you just cant see, the resolution of your shots are also not too impressive. I'm running right now on 1680x1050 on a 22' Wide with an ATI radeon X1950 and the new patch kicks my computers ass, I'm upgrading in about 1-2 weeks to Dual 8800 GT, to go with something darn close to what my friend runs and let me say... It even makes crappy looking ships like the Phoon or the Nid look good and shiny. I wouldn't update "just" for that if you're getting fine FPS with what your running now, or if you just wanna be able to enjoy Eve, but I don't think its legit to bash on graphics if you're not getting the best of whats there. It is legit to complain if with a Mid range pc (which yours is well above the current average) you feel you can't enjoy a game... which to be honest that will mostly depend on the rest of the changes trinity brings. I'm basically buying a new rig to replace my 5yr old one Ive been slapping on a component or two over the years to be able to enjoy Trinity but also play titles such as UT 3 or Crysis. Edit: maybe this isn't a good thing to remind people of... but the new evil nanophoon/Black ops ship with slightly less dps but 100 times more evilness is coming out.
Kritinana Minmatar Dark Empire Fleet	Posted - 2007.11.30 01:57:00 - [28] Originally by: Voltaire Leriel Originally by: Verone You're dis-satisfied with trinity because you've got a sub-par GFX card. Get a top notch card and you'll see the difference. How will this improve the polygon models? As I understand it, it will only add a few more effects. Because it's not actually millions more polies (maybe a few more polies), it's the illusion of millions more polies via the use of normal mapping. Basically an RGB image in the texture set that tricks the rendering system into lighting a flat surface as if it had detail modeled into it. There's certainly a high poly model over at ccp somewhere that was used to generate the normal map, but that model is not the same one that is used in the realtime engine. Because the new details are actually texture data and not raw geometry your vid. card is still the determining factor here.
Voltaire Leriel Minmatar BIG Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.11.30 02:09:00 - [29] Edited by: Voltaire Leriel on 30/11/2007 02:08:58 The resolution might look like it's low because i've zoomed in and cropped those images to show the parts i'm talking about. I run the game at 1280x1024. The FPS is just fine, I think the optimizations they've put in just about balance out the extra detail so it runs about as smooth as the old engine. If someone wants to show us some screen shots of these ships with a geforce 8, please post them - otherwise it's all hot air. I'm not about to invest in a (VERY expensive) new graphics card because some one on a forum told me I should. And i severely doubt that those ships will really look that much better on a geforce 8 over my 7950 (in the specific areas i've mentioned). _________________________________________________________ BIG Corporation Website
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.11.30 02:18:00 - [30] I'm not at home so i cant get screenies for ya, but i can vouch for the fact that the Cane looks alot better than in your shots I paniced when i saw some of the low quality shots posted by other people back when it first went live and actually updated for sisi so i could whine, but they look great with graphics "on" Originally by: Cecil Montague They should change that warning on entering low sec to: "Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."

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