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Polly Math
Alpha-Hirogen
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Posted - 2007.12.02 03:06:00 -
[1]
lately every 2nd gate in empire i see has some spawned concord ships flying around, so empire ganking seems to get more popular by the minute. and if you think about it, its only logical as there is no real risk towards it. the worst that can happen to the ganker is that the loot he is aiming for gets destroyed, plus a minor sec hit. full insurance payout, so even if he looses on the gamble, he is still only out his cheap t1 fittings and the -0.2 sec hit.
now i dont want to make the ganking impossible, but the current situation doesnt seem to be balanced risk vs reward wise.
so im thinking, just dont payout insurance if you get concord knocking on your hull, but then again all the ppl doing stupid things while beeing drunk etc kinda get the shaft here too, so prolly not an option. what else can be done to bring it more inline?
how long does concord stay spawned? maybe make them "guard" the wreck for the time they are around? so if a noncorpie grabs stuff from the wreck he gets to feel the concord love too, giving the ganked time to retrieve the cargo, as soon concord leaves its ffa. just an idea.
the current situation doesnt make any sense, just imagine daylight robbery, police responds, your friends (=alt) scooping the loot without any risk while the police is still around, on top of that the insurance says, oh hey you just did something criminal in empire, let us pay you some insurance!
ps: for all the gankers yelling "zomg empire is not meant to be safe!", i fully agree, it just shouldnt be dead easy without any real effort on the gankers part, atleast in empire.
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Nito Musashi
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Posted - 2007.12.02 03:10:00 -
[2]
make scanning anyones ship your not ganged or a corpmate of flag for kill rights.
Allows ganking, solves a number of loopholes in the hi sec alt scanning garbage. And gives people recourse if they arent afk hauling, and makes escort more viable if you have kill rights.
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Rellik B00n
Vale Heavy Industries
Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2007.12.02 03:11:00 -
[3]
Sharks
A shark lives in a rich food source. Fish (rly clever fish) learn to avoid the shark infested area. Fish make a safe route from home to Jita. Sharks move to the food source.
the end.
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Gamer4liff
Caldari
Metalworks
THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2007.12.02 03:27:00 -
[4]
it's fine, quote if you're down
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Jupiter Sun
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Posted - 2007.12.02 03:29:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Gamer4liff
it's fine, quote if you're down
im downs
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Polly Math
Alpha-Hirogen
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Posted - 2007.12.02 03:33:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Nito Musashi
make scanning anyones ship your not ganged or a corpmate of flag for kill rights.
Allows ganking, solves a number of loopholes in the hi sec alt scanning garbage. And gives people recourse if they arent afk hauling, and makes escort more viable if you have kill rights.
hmm interesting, still kinda sucks you need other ppl for escort, could make for some fun times tho i guess. 
Originally by: Rellik B00n
Sharks
A shark lives in a rich food source. Fish (rly clever fish) learn to avoid the shark infested area. Fish make a safe route from home to Jita. Sharks move to the food source.
the end.
and then the sharks get owned by concorde, still getting the food and a free pair of new shark teeth. 
gj missing the point tho.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.12.02 03:36:00 -
[7]
Since suicide ganking is completely avoidable if you take even simple measures to avoid it, the frequency with which it happens speaks only to the average intelligence of the playerbase, not to any need for balancing.
If you really want to bring it 'in line', I suggest you go around telling people not to be idiots.
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I wish I was a three foot female doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes. |
Freya Runestone
Minmatar
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2007.12.02 03:36:00 -
[8]
EVE does not babysit anyone.
it does not protect you, it only punishes after the deed is done.
you have to do something wrong before you get taken care of.
suicide ganking is balanced as well as it can be.
it's not as much risk vs. reward as it is 'certain loss' vs 'possible gain'
you're sure to lose sec status, your ship and some fittings no matter what, you're not guaranteed any gain from it. that is the chance you take
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d1v1n1ty
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Posted - 2007.12.02 03:39:00 -
[9]
What the hell is suicide ganking anyway?
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Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente
Eve University
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Posted - 2007.12.02 03:44:00 -
[10]
Originally by: d1v1n1ty
What the hell is suicide ganking anyway?
Attempting the takedown of a ship in hisec, usually a hauler, before CONCORD gets you. Pitifully easy if planned well, with little method for the victim to stop it once it starts.
Not that this is BAD, mind you, but the attitude on the forums is EXTREMELY cynical. Ignore them, they're *******s.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.12.02 03:47:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin
Originally by: d1v1n1ty
What the hell is suicide ganking anyway?
Attempting the takedown of a ship in hisec, usually a hauler, before CONCORD gets you. Pitifully easy if planned well, with little method for the victim to stop it once it starts.
Not that this is BAD, mind you, but the attitude on the forums is EXTREMELY cynical. Ignore them, they're *******s.
You fail to point out that with a tiny amount of effort, like say flying manually, it is virtually impossible to be suicide ganked.
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I wish I was a three foot female doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes. |
Polly Math
Alpha-Hirogen
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Posted - 2007.12.02 03:48:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Freya Runestone
suicide ganking is balanced as well as it can be.
it's not as much risk vs. reward as it is 'certain loss' vs 'possible gain'
you're sure to lose sec status, your ship and some fittings no matter what, you're not guaranteed any gain from it. that is the chance you take
only that in reality you get insurance payout and you can loot your wreck. which makes the loss come down to a couple of mill and the sec hit?
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Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente
Eve University
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Posted - 2007.12.02 03:49:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin
Originally by: d1v1n1ty
What the hell is suicide ganking anyway?
Attempting the takedown of a ship in hisec, usually a hauler, before CONCORD gets you. Pitifully easy if planned well, with little method for the victim to stop it once it starts.
Not that this is BAD, mind you, but the attitude on the forums is EXTREMELY cynical. Ignore them, they're *******s.
You fail to point out that with a tiny amount of effort, like say flying manually, it is virtually impossible to be suicide ganked.
Caught me while I was editing my post >.>
True, or training t2 haulers like I did ...
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Slazia
Minmatar
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.12.02 03:56:00 -
[14]
Suicide ganking is great!
I've never been the target of it, and never perfomed it. But it keeps eve interesting. If your flying valuable stuff around, just be careful! Its simple. Fly it in a shuttle, fly it in a tanked battleship, a T2 hauler. There are so many ways to avoid it, it isnt even funny.
Keep eve interesting!
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Polly Math
Alpha-Hirogen
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Posted - 2007.12.02 03:56:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Crumplecorn
You fail to point out that with a tiny amount of effort, like say flying manually, it is virtually impossible to be suicide ganked.
i didnt really want to try that yet with any stuff worth ganking, but wouldnt it be enough time to catch a slowass hauler on the outgoing side when i pilot manually?
moving most valuable stuff with a covops atm which ofc makes it pretty save, even tho slightly annoying.
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Freya Runestone
Minmatar
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2007.12.02 03:59:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Polly Math
Originally by: Freya Runestone
suicide ganking is balanced as well as it can be.
it's not as much risk vs. reward as it is 'certain loss' vs 'possible gain'
you're sure to lose sec status, your ship and some fittings no matter what, you're not guaranteed any gain from it. that is the chance you take
only that in reality you get insurance payout and you can loot your wreck. which makes the loss come down to a couple of mill and the sec hit?
and theres no guarantee you can get what you want from the target ship.
and someone else could loot the wreck too, since you're dead, you can't do much about it.
probably going to take a while to find a ship thats worth killing. not to mention the waiting time between kills.
getting your sec status up after doing this for a while isn't going to be so easy either.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.12.02 04:06:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Polly Math
Originally by: Crumplecorn
You fail to point out that with a tiny amount of effort, like say flying manually, it is virtually impossible to be suicide ganked.
i didnt really want to try that yet with any stuff worth ganking, but wouldnt it be enough time to catch a slowass hauler on the outgoing side when i pilot manually?
moving most valuable stuff with a covops atm which ofc makes it pretty save, even tho slightly annoying.
If you're talking about enough valuables to fill a hauler, then yes, you are going to face some greater risks, as haulers are too slow to avoid being shot at. T2 hauler and/or scout is answer here I think.
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I wish I was a three foot female doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes. |
Ishtar1
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.12.02 04:07:00 -
[18]
if the stuff is really that valuable fit nanos I-stabs and poly carbon rigs you can get hualer into warp pretty fast
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Polly Math
Alpha-Hirogen
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Posted - 2007.12.02 04:14:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Freya Runestone
and theres no guarantee you can get what you want from the target ship.
and someone else could loot the wreck too, since you're dead, you can't do much about it.
probably going to take a while to find a ship thats worth killing. not to mention the waiting time between kills.
getting your sec status up after doing this for a while isn't going to be so easy either.
if you dont have an alt ready for scoopage you fail at ganking. and really, getting your sec status up isnt that much of deal, kill a good bs spawn in 0.0 or run a lvl4 and you pretty much fixed it while making some isk's.
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Paulo Damarr
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Posted - 2007.12.02 04:21:00 -
[20]
If the stuff your hauling is valuable enough to warrant a suicide ganking but you cant fly T2 Transports, get resistance rigs for you hauler and HP buffer tank it and improve its agility with i-Stabs and dont use nanos and fit a DC and never fly autopilot.
It wont make you immune to being suicide ganked but it improves your odds of avoiding it and possibly surviving an attempted gank.
Originally by: Tortun Nahme
CCP also condones thinking, I suggest you try it from tiem to time
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Bacon Flaps
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Posted - 2007.12.02 05:22:00 -
[21]
I'm pretty ambivalent, having been suicided twice now for maybe 500m loss total, but in each case I could have avoided it if I had been even more paranoid. 2nd time in a polycarbed badger II fully tanked was a ****er, but it was still just another lesson in Eve. If I hate it enough, I have the skills and alts to do it myself.
But, ignoring all the arguments on either side, it's a pretty good sign of a broken game mechanic when every gate on the 26-jump hisec route from Jita to Rens is camped. It wasn't like this a year ago, ccp needs to do something cause it's obviously just too damn easy. It's a lot easier than most other careers atm.
And please stop calling the security hit a punishment. It's trivial to fix compared to someone trying to re-build several hundred million in lost stuff.
Ultimately, carebears pay for the server bills, seeing as they are 70% of the population. If they leave, servers are turned off.
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2007.12.02 05:39:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Bacon Flaps
ccp needs to do something cause it's obviously just too damn easy.
Just have a pop up box when you try to put on the autopilot saying:
DONT BE SO BLOODY STUPID
SKUNK
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umop 3pisdn
Minmatar
Fnck the blob.
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Posted - 2007.12.02 06:06:00 -
[23]
lol carebears suck, suck less, stop being stupid, concords been buffed 15,000 times already, the end, bye
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Original Copy
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Posted - 2007.12.02 06:16:00 -
[24]
Shield extenders & inertia stabs on haulers and you're nigh on untouchable in empire space. Unless the ship scanning you also fits a ship scanner (seldom) they'll never realize until they're wrecks and you're on your way that you've outfoxed them. And if they scan you and see shield extenders they'll leave you alone because a ship stout enough to take you down likely can't lock you in time if you're using stabs.
Freighters should just haul less than 1 bil worth of cargo, or a few thousand single-stacked trash items to muddy up the scan results. All that said, there's not a lot you can do against a concerted gank without a small fleet of logistics ships escorting you.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.12.02 06:24:00 -
[25]
I vote for a new warning box that pops up whenever, uh, say, your cargo's base value is worth more than 25k ISK * effective HP for the ship.
!!! WARNING !!!
You are attempting to undock carrying cargo worth ludicrous amounts of ISK more as it would cost some bubba to suicide gank you in one phreaking shot.
So, what'll it be, moron ?
[[STFU, I'm a masochist]] . [[Durr, what's suicideganking?]] . [[Oh, yeah, right, sorry, don't undock]]
C|S|I|N|x. |
umop 3pisdn
Minmatar
Fnck the blob.
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Posted - 2007.12.02 06:26:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Akita T
I vote for a new warning box that pops up whenever, uh, say, your cargo's base value is worth more than 25k ISK * effective HP for the ship.
!!! WARNING !!!
You are attempting to undock carrying cargo worth ludicrous amounts of ISK more as it would cost some bubba to suicide gank you in one phreaking shot.
So, what'll it be, moron ?
[[STFU, I'm a masochist]] . [[Durr, what's suicideganking?]] . [[Oh, yeah, right, sorry, don't undock]]
Thats amazing
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Paulo Damarr
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Posted - 2007.12.02 06:27:00 -
[27]
Warnings wont help, the existing warnings about other things dont stop people doing things they are not prepared to do.
You can take a noob to water but you cant make him drink, some people just dont learn.
Originally by: Tortun Nahme
CCP also condones thinking, I suggest you try it from tiem to time
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Atius Tirawa
Minmatar
Wreckless Abandon
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.12.02 07:38:00 -
[28]
Not to sound like an old fart that has been playing too long but. . .there was a day when concorde was not as 'active' as they are today - the fact that it takes planning by multiple attackers and pure lazyness (AFK hauling) by the target is the reason whyy its balanced - one group of indiviuals are coordinating an attack while you are watching a movie. . .
Concorde was a major buff to industrial carebear sorts in eve, but no matter where you are, you should be a legitimate target. . .unless you are docked.
-----------
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7shining7one7
Quafe Paladins
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Posted - 2007.12.02 07:56:00 -
[29]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 02/12/2007 08:02:04
imo i think ganking is way too easy in hi sec, and we all know that hi sec wasn't supposed to be like that. offcourse all is fair when the wardec comes, but mindless t1 cruiser ganking of haulers and whatnot is simply ******** for the overall gameplay.
those notions of cargo scanning that some mentioned in some other threads i simply gotta call out as blatantly ********. offcourse you should be allowed to scan whatever without any aggro. but the hi sec kamikaze crap has got to go.
fix: no insurance, not even base insurance, no reimbursement whatsoever, for kamikaze blob ganking of haulers and the likes in hi sec, and maybe add a severe sec rating penalty on top of that, and add a little whipped cream on top with a hefty faction standing decrease with whoever has sov in the empire space your in. That'll teach you to weigh the risk against the benefits in the right way. Make a wardec and get er done instead. It's empire after all, not low sec and not 0.0. It's that simple. and you all do it like that now anyways with wardecs, so it wouldn't be the biggest change.
If ya wanna fight, then make a wardec and don't yu lai
or go pew pew in low sec and 0.0 where such things belong.
yaarrr
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Caligulus
Eve University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2007.12.02 07:57:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Rellik B00n
Sharks
A shark lives in a rich food source. Fish (rly clever fish) learn to avoid the shark infested area. Fish make a safe route from home to Jita. Sharks move to the food source.
the end.
Frack that...i'm a sea turtle. I always es-cah-pae. 
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