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SiJira	Posted - 2007.12.02 16:44:00 - [1] what would you do to reinforce jita as the trade hub but remove people that dont need to be there remember that the interbus moving things for you across the region is a wrong idea since it removes player interaction isntead of increasing it is creating a second system right beside jita also with its personal node be the solution? some people mentioned moving the caldari starter systems a bit further away since a lot of newbs end up in jita - how about a part of the very first few words in the tutorial explaining that the types of things newbs buy are available everywhere else especially the smaller trade hubs? remember we dont want to remove jita we want to reduce anyone that does not need to be there and reduce the lag while reinforcing its position as the super hub ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2007.12.02 17:00:00 - [2] Originally by: SiJira is creating a second system right beside jita also with its personal node be the solution? some people mentioned moving the caldari starter systems a bit further away since a lot of newbs end up in jita - how about a part of the very first few words in the tutorial explaining that the types of things newbs buy are available everywhere else especially the smaller trade hubs? These are all bad ideas because they're static solutions, not dynamic ones; CCP would have to go around re-arranging systems every time a major market hum formed and lag spiked. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in ~~pink~~ Forum Warfare
Maximada Minmatar FM Corp Insomnia.	Posted - 2007.12.02 17:01:00 - [3] oh noes another jita post. zzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.12.02 17:04:00 - [4] Originally by: SiJira what would you do to reinforce jita as the trade hub but remove people that dont need to be there Put all the CONCORD ships under the manual control of a ***** team of system moderators. - I wish I was a three foot female doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes.
Error404	Posted - 2007.12.02 17:06:00 - [5] How about not having a single trade centre?
SiJira	Posted - 2007.12.02 17:10:00 - [6] Originally by: Tarminic These are all bad ideas because they're static solutions, not dynamic ones; CCP would have to go around re-arranging systems every time a major market hum formed and lag spiked. we are reinforcing jita to stay as the super hub Originally by: Error404 How about not having a single trade centre? this does not work since traders and manufacturers want to be in the best system for their sales - its why we had yulai before and have jita now ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2007.12.02 17:22:00 - [7] Too many noobs do end up in jita. Moving the noob systems a bit isn't a bad idea. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Mangala Solaris Caldari Sanctuary Aegis Consortium	Posted - 2007.12.02 17:27:00 - [8] For all these idea's that endless people put forward, they tend to overlook one thing, Jita is not CCP's fault, they do their best to alleviate the issues created by players doing all their trading in one place. If the playerbase wants less lag in Jitamart, then its down to the playerbase to learn to sell elsewhere - like the other hubs. ------- Sanctuary
Per Bastet Amarr B.O.O.M Socius Tutaminis Velox	Posted - 2007.12.02 17:28:00 - [9] Ok. Yes Jita is a Trade hub. No argument there. Move the Agents out and part of the Traffic will go elsewhere. Move the Newbie Stuff elsewhere and the Traffic will go down. If it will be a trade hub, move everything else out. Leave it with No belts, just the gates and stations. No Cans in space, no extra stuff.
Val Vympel	Posted - 2007.12.02 18:14:00 - [10] Concerning Jita(Humor) I think CCP should announce that Caldari scientists have discovered that Jita's star is unstable and will go supernova in 30 days or less...leaving all of the Jita system a blasted ruin. CONCORD/Caldari Navy etc. pull out to insure the safety of their fleets...leaving Jita a lawless hellhole for the remainder of it's misbegotten life. Imagine the chaos as all the "lemmings" try to bail out and move all their goods before it goes BOOM. Imagine the "Pirate" feeding frenzy after CONCORD withdraws. Imagine the forum threads of all those who "didn't make it" and were caught in the blast. Anybody who has any experience or knowledge of MMO's should already know that "trade hubs" are always "lag pits" and I will never understand why the player base continues to make the same mistakes.(and then rant and rage about it) As if making a ONE jump to Perimeter or another adjacent system to buy/sell goods would be out of the question.
Cadiz Caldari No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2007.12.02 18:18:00 - [11] It's easy to kill Jita...give it the Yulai treatment. Gut it from all major thoroughfare gate networks and relegate it to some out-of-the-way backwater route. If people have to actively make large detours to end up there, then it will die off as a trade hub. ...And then some other system will replace it. ------ Director, No Quarter "There is no problem that cannot be solved by the judicious application of violence."
Jupiter Sun	Posted - 2007.12.02 18:20:00 - [12] people who moan about jita have no idea how markets, even virtual ones, work (not aimed at the OP).
5pinDizzy	Posted - 2007.12.02 18:20:00 - [13] Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 02/12/2007 18:21:18 Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 02/12/2007 18:20:56 Idea 1 One gate in and out of Jita, make it a dead end system Pros - Stops people passing through adding to the lag, or trying to pass through and getting stuck, makes it a bit less accessible. Cons Single gate may well get overloaded, and would be the Prime Golden suicide ganking spot for every large unscrupulous corp/alliance. Idea 2 Unnerf Amarr Pro's - Stops all the Amarr carebears finding out their race sucks for mission running where they all move to caldari space and train and buy ravens, adding to the congestion, as nearly all mission runners sell their loot off at Jita. Cons - Bolting the stable door after the horse has bolted - May reduce amount of funny Amarr whine threads. Idea 3 Cater for the need for a giant central trade hub Pro's - Can specifically engineer it to be strong against latency, and remove all belts/agents, cans and stuff, and make it so undocking doesn't get all clogged up. Cons - Jita is not as crowded as you think it is, just that the server is rather crowded these days, if you did something like this, I don't know how you would make it so it didn't collapse in on itself as it fills with 3000 people at once.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2007.12.02 18:24:00 - [14] Originally by: Cadiz It's easy to kill Jita...give it the Yulai treatment. Gut it from all major thoroughfare gate networks and relegate it to some out-of-the-way backwater route. If people have to actively make large detours to end up there, then it will die off as a trade hub. ...And then some other system will replace it. Yep. Repeat ad infinitum and you now see why CCP will not do anything to physically change hub systems. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in ~~pink~~ Forum Warfare
Jupiter Sun	Posted - 2007.12.02 18:26:00 - [15] Originally by: Per Bastet Ok. Yes Jita is a Trade hub. No argument there. Move the Agents out and part of the Traffic will go elsewhere. Move the Newbie Stuff elsewhere and the Traffic will go down. If it will be a trade hub, move everything else out. Leave it with No belts, just the gates and stations. No Cans in space, no extra stuff. jita has like 2 crappy agents and no belts iirc :)
Wendat Huron Stellar Solutions	Posted - 2007.12.02 18:33:00 - [16] Declare war on the corporations you deem unfit to frequent Jita. These forums are FUBAR, upgrade this decade!
Val Vympel	Posted - 2007.12.02 18:33:00 - [17] Originally by: Jupiter Sun people who moan about jita have no idea how markets, even virtual ones, work (not aimed at the OP). Can you please elaborate?
An Anarchyyt Gallente Sublime.	Posted - 2007.12.02 18:41:00 - [18] Originally by: Val Vympel Originally by: Jupiter Sun people who moan about jita have no idea how markets, even virtual ones, work (not aimed at the OP). Can you please elaborate? To sum it up in basically one sentence, centralized markets are a simple fact of humanity, we gravitate towards these things. Pretty much, Jita is the equivalent of New York City. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
xJohnnyDx The Aduro Protocol The Fifth Race	Posted - 2007.12.02 18:54:00 - [19] I like seeing all the Jita cry threads. Reminds how good I have it, since every time I go in, I don't lag. P.S. - Hi Anarchyyt :)
Val Vympel	Posted - 2007.12.02 18:57:00 - [20] Originally by: An Anarchyyt Originally by: Val Vympel Originally by: Jupiter Sun people who moan about jita have no idea how markets, even virtual ones, work (not aimed at the OP). Can you please elaborate? To sum it up in basically one sentence, centralized markets are a simple fact of humanity, we gravitate towards these things. Pretty much, Jita is the equivalent of New York City. Ah!..ok that is what I thought she meant. I understand the concept...just never been one to follow it. Crowds make me uncomfortable.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.12.02 20:17:00 - [21] making just one jump in and out would destroy jita the plan is to reinforce jita while removing those who dont care to be there but end up going there by autopilot or misinformation ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
Ed Anger Weekly World News	Posted - 2007.12.02 20:28:00 - [22] it's sunday
Evano Zhammi	Posted - 2007.12.02 20:31:00 - [23] Originally by: Jupiter Sun people who moan about jita have no idea how markets, even virtual ones, work (not aimed at the OP). They make you lag?
Maraude Fury Minmatar Shadow Of The Light	Posted - 2007.12.02 20:32:00 - [24] How about makeing more lvl 4 agents in other high sec regions, and not have the most popular one be 3 or 4 jumps from Jita.... Maybe a few good Amarr lvl 4's next to Amarr, or a few good lvl 4 Minnie ones near Rens... that way folks could spread out. Hell, even just adding a new caldari lvl 4 agent next to Rens, and Amarr would would help shift some of the folks. We're always going to have trade hubs, but lets make it multiple trade hubs, instead of one. Maraude Fury CEO: Shadow Of The Light .SOL. ]
SiJira	Posted - 2007.12.02 20:49:00 - [25] Originally by: Maraude Fury How about makeing more lvl 4 agents in other high sec regions, and not have the most popular one be 3 or 4 jumps from Jita.... Maybe a few good Amarr lvl 4's next to Amarr, or a few good lvl 4 Minnie ones near Rens... that way folks could spread out. Hell, even just adding a new caldari lvl 4 agent next to Rens, and Amarr would would help shift some of the folks. We're always going to have trade hubs, but lets make it multiple trade hubs, instead of one. some of the other trade hubs can be as laggy as jita since they dont have the reinforced nodes so putting some high level agents in currently desolate space and advertising about them would be the best idea ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
DHU InMe Gallente JUSTICE Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.02 20:58:00 - [26] Originally by: SiJira making just one jump in and out would destroy jita the plan is to reinforce jita while removing those who dont care to be there but end up going there by autopilot or misinformation This solution has a bottleneck: GROUPING too munch people on ONE SPOT. Eve if you were putting 10 time more processing power, you could at best put 3,16 time more peoples. Each people on one SPOT (a station, a stargate...) create /receive data from server each second/half second (let call it a TIME FRAME). 5 people create 5^2=25 data per time frame. 50 people create 50^2=250 data per time frame. The algorithm problem is n^2 complexity. At best by not receiving the data of everyone but on some time you could reduce the complexity by "2 to n". (n^2)/n mean that everyone send data and wait for everyone data before receiving another batch. This is kind of SYNCHRONISED idea. It bad because everyone live in different place of the world and have different network latency (ping, time to send/receive a message in average). It would look like a SLIDE SHOW. To be more realistic (and way more playable / dynamic), we could send data at each 500ms (half of a second). It would give us (n^2)/2, and it probably what they are already doing. Increasing more = bad playability / response time. Increase of memory use to stack data before being send to a player. Best solution is to remote BUY and transport stuff. No one want to wait their ship/module to be transported and taking time by contract it too slow and boring to create a contract for shipping (if CONTRACT could be done faster could help reduce people in JITA) ! Overhaul //todo remake EvE Links //todo remake RTFPN HELP
Ed Anger Weekly World News	Posted - 2007.12.02 21:05:00 - [27] whatever suggestions you make, have been made before. alot. so stop posting, really.
Jowen Datloran Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2007.12.02 21:15:00 - [28] If Jita wasn't around, I wouldn't bother with tech 2 production. ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute
Mortuus Minmatar Viper Squad Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.02 21:26:00 - [29] Remove high sec space, make it all 0.4. Watch as the carebears spread out to avoid being inside the feeding frenzy, goods will be traded where they are made. ex-Occassus Republica <3
DHU InMe Gallente JUSTICE Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.02 21:35:00 - [30] Edited by: DHU InMe on 02/12/2007 21:36:43 Edit:Typo corrected. Originally by: Mortuus Remove high sec space, make it all 0.4. Watch as the carebears spread out to avoid being inside the feeding frenzy, goods will be traded where they are made. Let remove 80% eve player in secure space.... 9% play in low secure 7% play in 00 Need an hind of how to NOT destroy a game ? Overhaul //todo remake EvE Links //todo remake RTFPN HELP
SiJira	Posted - 2007.12.03 01:16:00 - [31] Originally by: Jowen Datloran If Jita wasn't around, I wouldn't bother with tech 2 production. jita will always stay lets make it better ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
Zinras	Posted - 2007.12.03 01:29:00 - [32] Fly a Titan to every warpable object in Jita and set off DDDs 5 times per day at random intervals. While it would solve nothing, as a hub would be set up somewhere else, it sure would be funny. Otherwise, just pull the plug on whatever server that handles the Jita area during peak hours on a sunday, while as many people as possible are still in there Again, it solves nothing in the long run but at least people would cry about something else for a change
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2007.12.03 01:57:00 - [33] Originally by: Val Vympel Concerning Jita(Humor) I think CCP should announce that Caldari scientists have discovered that Jita's star is unstable and will go supernova in 30 days or less...leaving all of the Jita system a blasted ruin. CONCORD/Caldari Navy etc. pull out to insure the safety of their fleets...leaving Jita a lawless hellhole for the remainder of it's misbegotten life. Imagine the chaos as all the "lemmings" try to bail out and move all their goods before it goes BOOM. Imagine the "Pirate" feeding frenzy after CONCORD withdraws. Imagine the forum threads of all those who "didn't make it" and were caught in the blast. Anybody who has any experience or knowledge of MMO's should already know that "trade hubs" are always "lag pits" and I will never understand why the player base continues to make the same mistakes.(and then rant and rage about it) As if making a ONE jump to Perimeter or another adjacent system to buy/sell goods would be out of the question. This,i would go there not to kill people but to watch the cluster****
Lithalnas Amarr Headcrabs	Posted - 2007.12.03 02:01:00 - [34] remove sunday? ------------- fixed for greater eve content
Araxmas The Blue Dagger Mercenery Agency	Posted - 2007.12.03 02:26:00 - [35] Originally by: xJohnnyDx I like seeing all the Jita cry threads. Reminds how good I have it, since every time I go in, I don't lag. P.S. - Hi Anarchyyt :) Ditto on that, never really lag in Jita. -------- The Derek Quote Pyramid
Del Narveux Dukes of Hazard	Posted - 2007.12.03 02:33:00 - [36] Ill start off by mentioning that Interbus is actually an extremely good idea, for reasons that anyone who's ever messed with player courier missions will be familiar with, but it wouldnt really do anything about the jita issue. But heres some stuff that they can and should do to cut down on lag 1. Give autopilot the ability to avoid a list of user-defined systems. Given the choice, most people would not want to AP through jita if its not their destination. 2. No missions in jita! Move all the agents out, and remove it from the list of mission locations. 3. Pretty sure one of the starter systems is like 1 jump away, maybe hook it up to a different system. 4. Make a special 'commercial station' that has multiple exits for ships, turn 4-4 into one of these. 5. Is it possible to put just the station on their own node? Cause a lot of people have alts that never undock and just check prices and stuff, if they had their very own lil node or something that might help too. OP is right, jita is never going to go away, but we should take measures to make it more of a pure trade hub like Yulai was back in the day, not trade+missions+through-traffic+altspam+LAG. Cause aside from more players now (which is a big deal), the main difference between Yulai and Jita is Yulai was kind of in the middle of nowhere so not much going on, but being in the middle of caldari space Jita has all sorts of normal highsec activities associated with it. _________________ [SAK] Alumnus--And Proud Of It! -- aka Cpt Bogus Is that my torped sig cloaking your base? Originally by: Wrangler Well, at least we have forum PvP..
SiJira	Posted - 2007.12.04 17:56:00 - [37] Originally by: Del Narveux Ill start off by mentioning that Interbus is actually an extremely good idea, for reasons that anyone who's ever messed with player courier missions will be familiar with, but it wouldnt really do anything about the jita issue. But heres some stuff that they can and should do to cut down on lag 1. Give autopilot the ability to avoid a list of user-defined systems. Given the choice, most people would not want to AP through jita if its not their destination. 2. No missions in jita! Move all the agents out, and remove it from the list of mission locations. 3. Pretty sure one of the starter systems is like 1 jump away, maybe hook it up to a different system. 4. Make a special 'commercial station' that has multiple exits for ships, turn 4-4 into one of these. 5. Is it possible to put just the station on their own node? Cause a lot of people have alts that never undock and just check prices and stuff, if they had their very own lil node or something that might help too. OP is right, jita is never going to go away, but we should take measures to make it more of a pure trade hub like Yulai was back in the day, not trade+missions+through-traffic+altspam+LAG. Cause aside from more players now (which is a big deal), the main difference between Yulai and Jita is Yulai was kind of in the middle of nowhere so not much going on, but being in the middle of caldari space Jita has all sorts of normal highsec activities associated with it. all good ideas something else that CCP may consider that would reduce database calls as much as the little drone change for twice the rof and twice the damage - is making a little button on the market page that is set to default as off when clicked it would refresh as much as it does now but the default would always be off when someone logs on - meaning it would not update any more than every five minutes or even longer - in a place like jita this would mean many less server calls - it would hardly be a hassle to click this button for those who are active in the market unfortunately an afk auto log off timer is something that would only detract from the game for many pvp players and would not be a good idea ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
An Anarchyyt Gallente Sublime.	Posted - 2007.12.04 18:07:00 - [38] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: SiJira what would you do to reinforce jita as the trade hub but remove people that dont need to be there Put all the CONCORD ships under the manual control of a *** team of system moderators. There was a time when once Dev Controlled CONCORD ships went somewhere. It didn't go over too well. Originally by:** CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
SiJira	Posted - 2007.12.04 18:45:00 - [39] Originally by: An Anarchyyt Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: SiJira what would you do to reinforce jita as the trade hub but remove people that dont need to be there Put all the CONCORD ships under the manual control of a ***** team of system moderators. There was a time when once Dev Controlled CONCORD ships went somewhere. It didn't go over too well. sure it did people whined ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.12.07 18:44:00 - [40] Originally by: Mangala Solaris For all these idea's that endless people put forward, they tend to overlook one thing, Jita is not CCP's fault, they do their best to alleviate the issues created by players doing all their trading in one place. If the playerbase wants less lag in Jitamart, then its down to the playerbase to learn to sell elsewhere - like the other hubs. See my sig for further information. Support fixing the EVE UI \| Suggest Jita fixes If you'd suicide gank yourself for what you're hauling, don't.
Razin The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2007.12.07 18:58:00 - [41] An increase in taxes as a function of system's popularity and its duration. Eventually taxes get so high people have to move to stay competitive. ...
Syraine	Posted - 2007.12.07 19:10:00 - [42] what would help a lot for Jita would be to create more connections around it. Give us ways to get avoid Jita by connecting surrounding systems to each other? If I have a courier mission that takes me from Jatate to Kusomonmon. Here is the basic path I need to take: Jatate Itamo Maurasi Jita Perimeter Urlen Kusomonmon So take Jita out of the trip, if you think its unfair to make them shorter, then create a few systems that have nothing in them but stargates and let me take an extra jump in that system and avoid Jita. Also quit making kill missions that send me into Jita! Unless I am picking something up I have bought, I DO NOT want to be in Jita, EVER. The problem is, it is a travel hub for a lot of places. You simply cannot get some places without it. to give us better ways to avoid it, and it will be less crowded for the people buying/selling there.
McScruff Grudjorn Logistics	Posted - 2007.12.07 19:13:00 - [43] For the love of god, just make it posible for people to travel accross Caldari space without having to choose between Jita or a massive detour? ______________________________________ Warning: May contain traces of sarcasm

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