I was just doing the sister's of eve quest and someone came and stole a guy I needed from a can. What are my options? I offered to buy the guy off him for a couple million, but as usual pirates always want the big score which is why they are always broke, and he asked for 20 mil. Not paying 20 mil for one part of a 50 part quest.

Can I petition it to get a replacement, or will it reset after downtime?

There is nothing to petition here - its part of the game mechanics in the same way that can-flipping is.

The mission won't reset as it has been properly completed i.e. the item has been scooped. As already suggested you can either pay his ransom, buy a replacement off the market, use an alt to get the mission again or fail the mission.

What is this "1 item" you needed. Many players have extras and usually to kill the mission quick, have them on hand.

Declare war on the person and make the lives of his corpmates a misery for a week.

Sometimes brakes on cars are bad when they leave the factory. Thats part of the mechanics too. But they recall them and fix them.

Sometimes brakes on cars are bad when they leave the factory. Thats part of the mechanics too. But they recall them and fix them. Stuff life this costs CCP more money then I think they will ever truly be able to fathom. Leaves a bad taste in a person's mouth to pay to be annoyed. Honestly it would be better to just remove concord so the guy could have attacked me and taken my stuff. At least something productive would have taken place then for someone. As it stands now this was nothing but a complete waste of time for everyone involved.

Its not on the market, and there is only 1 on contract for 40 million. Just gunna get on an alt and do the quest up until that point and trade the item to my other character. Luckily its early in the quest.

if they don't, they're probably hiding a knife behind their backs.

Yes, but we both know that this is Eve and it's working as intended.

D: whyyy

Hey OP, by any chance was the person who stole your item Grinder2210?

Which is why subscriber growth for this game has been anemic at best over the years and the player base is miniscule in comparison to almost all other mildly successful MMOs. Additionally CCP just laid off a large portion of their staff and lost a large percentage of their subscribers because they actually paid money to hire "thought experts" that told them to charge 80 dollars or whatever absurd amount they charge for a monocle.

There is a saying in school that 5% of your students cause 95% of your problems, and the same holds true in eve, but in eve for some reason they cater to the 5%. The only explanation I have ever been able to come to is that CCP truly wants no mass appeal whatsoever. They explicitly want to be a niche market.

I am all for pvp, and conflict, and fighting, and strategy, and interesting game play. However, when I am just relaxing and looking for something low key to do, and I decide to log in to eve and do a nice slow pace quest to pick up a little faction, and some guy roles up and steals my quest item and then tries to get me to pay a ridiculous amount for it, thats just annoying. It doesn't add to game play in any way. I can't see it being particularly entertaining for the guy that did it, unless he has some real issues, and its just pointless in every way. I guess I just have a problem with pointless things.

If he was attacking my POS, hey I get it. We are fighting over resources. If he attacks me in low sec I get it, he wants my stuff. If he is undercutting me on the market I get it, he wants to outsell me. If he infiltrates my corp and steals our stuff great, he is personally enriching himself.

Rolling in and stealing my janitor, then me offering 2 million, and him asking for 20 mil, and him not even making a counter offer, just a total waste of time for everyone involved. This also leads me to wonder, why the hell won't people of the pirate ideology ever negotiate? The guy probably could have gotten me up to 4 mil or so, I could have moved on with my quest, he would be 4 mil richer, but I offer 2, he asks for 20, and then nothing. Just a complete waste. Waste of an evening, waste of a game, waste of 15 bucks. Just a waste.

Which is why subscriber growth for this game has been anemic at best over the years and the player base is miniscule in comparison to almost all other mildly successful MMOs. Additionally CCP just laid off a large portion of their staff and lost a large percentage of their subscribers because they actually paid money to hire "thought experts" that told them to charge 80 dollars or whatever absurd amount they charge for a monocle.

However, when I am just relaxing and looking for something low key to do, and I decide to log in to eve and do a nice slow pace quest to pick up a little faction, and some guy roles up and steals my quest item and then tries to get me to pay a ridiculous amount for it, thats just annoying. It doesn't add to game play in any way.

Rolling in and stealing my janitor, then me offering 2 million, and him asking for 20 mil, and him not even making a counter offer, just a total waste of time for everyone involved.

No

Then you clearly don't belong in EVE.

CCP had to lay off 20% of it's workforce because they decided to go the route of cashop+captin's cubicle.

Since crucible the PCU has been steadily climbing like it has every year since the game launched. If they went carebear like you apparently want, then they'd drive off their core base and wind up closing the servers within 3 months; just like SWG with their NGE.

The first two aren't really true and the last item on your list has nothing to do with this. In fact, unlike pretty much every other MMO, EVE has had constant growth for nearly a decade straight (until CCP simply forgot about the game for a year). The reason it managed to do that is because it has constantly offered something no other game offers and since it constantly generates these big splashy stories about the big heists where some dastardly person screwed over some poor hapless victim. This is just an extension of that.

It is also entirely in keeping with the overall theme of EVE and adds an element of PvP to your missions.

Nah. Some people will simply pay the price, and if not, they can auction it off later. ISK in the wallet either way.

I don't belong in Eve and I am a carebear because I want to be able to do a quest without getting my quest item stolen? Seriously?

I'm actually looking forward to getting into low sec PvP with my brother, I have had several POSs blown up and am completely ok with it, and even got poded several times when I returned to Eve while trying to get my stuff out of lowsec, and that was fine with me to.

I just wanna do a little dinky almost meaningless mission to just chill for a lil bit in Eve to mix things up. But you're saying it would be perfectly ok with you if every single time someone did a mission everyone had their quest items stolen?

And in your opinion someone would be a carebear if they complained at all if they could never finish a single mission that involved an item because you say its fine for everyone to steal them constantly?

Me and you will just have to agree to disagree I think.

Sometimes brakes on cars are bad when they leave the factory. Thats part of the mechanics too. But they recall them and fix them. ...

Tippia, I place no value on your opinion. If you wish to speak to others in threads I start then by all means feel free. Please refrain from responding to me though because I have absolutely no interest in your opinion what so ever, because clearly you have none in mine. Thanks.

Just a complete waste. Waste of an evening, waste of a game, waste of 15 bucks. Just a waste.

Most of its not the isk its that they pissed you off and ruined your day, wasted your time, etc. The isk is secondary to that imo. And yes thats Eve in a nutshell for a lot of the player base.

Petition it and get it reset. CCP is pretty good about that.


I myself wouldve never offered isk for it. Id sooner eat the loss than give someone anything. But thats just me.

You know thats the part that really kills me. I get it, the guy wants to be a pirate, and I'm totally ok with that. He wants to make a few iskies and he has his own niche carved out. But WHY WON'T THESE PEOPLE BE REASONABLE??? I just don't get it. 20 million he's gunna ask for for warping in and looting a can?

I would have HAPPILY gave the guy a few million and chuckled to myself and thought "Oh those wacky pirates", and life would have moved on for both of us. But instead everything has to go down the egotistical grief route and everyone's time is wasted.

Stuff like this is what makes things so horrible for the pirates. I really think the majority of people are ok with some people wanting to be the bad guys, but there is a thin line between playing the bad guy and just being a complete jerk, and unfortunately most people like that have no idea where the line is and just go straight to jerk.

I am all for pvp, and conflict, and fighting, and strategy, and interesting game play. However, when I am just relaxing and looking for something low key to do, and I decide to log in to eve and do a nice slow pace quest to pick up a little faction, and some guy roles up and steals my quest item and then tries to get me to pay a ridiculous amount for it, thats just annoying. It doesn't add to game play in any way. I can't see it being particularly entertaining for the guy that did it, unless he has some real issues, and its just pointless in every way. I guess I just have a problem with pointless things.

A car leaving the factory with bad brakes--> is NOT supposed to happen.

Another player playing EVE and stealing something from you and ransoming it like a proper pirate--> IS supposed to happen.

If you don't like playing a game that has actual player pirates in it, doing actual pirating [duh!], then go play something else.

And none of this "Oh more people would play if the game was made nicer..." BS. If you want to play a nice safe game play something else. The 'great masses' of players who do not want to play a potentially hazardous space ship game are NOT WANTED HERE, you understand!? We [royal we] dont want them playing, and CCP doesn't want their money either.

Your failed logic is that dumbing down a game to attract more common players would benefit everyone. Just look at all the wrecks of games that atttempted that in the last decade [wow clones] --> you get a large subscriber base for a short while, then complete playerbase drop off nearly shuttering your servers then F2P desperation.

Being a unique game [ie. not softened and even more boring than it already is:)] ensures there is a consistent relatively small sustainable playerbase forever [what we want], not a temporary large playerbase then utter embarrasing collapse.

I am all for pvp, and conflict, and fighting, and strategy, and interesting game play. However, when I am just relaxing and looking for something low key to do, and I decide to log in to eve and do a nice slow pace quest to pick up a little faction, and some guy roles up and steals my quest item and then tries to get me to pay a ridiculous amount for it, thats just annoying. It doesn't add to game play in any way. I can't see it being particularly entertaining for the guy that did it, unless he has some real issues, and its just pointless in every way. I guess I just have a problem with pointless things.

It totally wasn't pointless for him, especially not after you came whining to the forums...he totally just won Eve thanks to that move on your part.

Ahhh the old "If you make people suffer it will bring you pleasure" argument. I'm more concerned with the mechanics of what happened, not who actually did it.

PVP can happen everywhere. It's part of the game, so you either learn to deal with it and develop counters, or you remain a victim.

Blue ice miners in Brapelille did nothing but cry on the forums about getting unfairly suicide ganked. They made no attempts to fight back. The most they would do was stiffening their ships, but they ultimately remained helpless victims.

Don't be a blue ice miner.

No, moron, you missed my point. The point was that clearly for him it wasn't a waste, as he clearly is all about pirating and making people suffer...and then you come to the forums and whine, making it all the more a win for him.

You lost the argument when you called me a moron. Although you calling me a moron clearly shows your irritation with me. According to your logic I should be happy about it and consider it a success. Perhaps I will sit back and enjoy the pleasure I have gained by making you suffer.

No PVP took place. No shots were fired. And even if I would have attacked him and killed him there would have been no guarantee that my stolen item would have dropped. I could war dec him and pursue him for weeks, but that would be a reward to him as clearly he is looking for a fight. What counters would you suggest I utilize?

Yes it did. Your just delusional.

...
Also, no pirating took place here. Griefing took place here. Nothing was gained by any party but wasted time. I understand you want anarchy though.

Taking something another person wanted/hadPossessionOf/owned and then even offering it back at a grossly inflated ransom is very nearly the HIGHEST form of piracy. From fantasy to real life. From 2004 SpaceInvaders ransoming people at gates to present day Earth Somali coast, taking over cargo ships and demanding payment from host countries.

Pirates are not reasonable nice people in costumes that dance and sing like in the movies [well, they might dance and sing in their private time], they are bad and do bad things, and if you aren't one of them you should feel terrible after meeting one if they did their job right, and if you are stil alive after encountering one.

Feeling terrible doesn't automatically mean you were griefed. Someone beat you at some aspect of the game, and since this game actually involves more personal investment than other lame video games-- you feel real anger, emotion, rage. you essentially feel alive, unlike playing other videogames where what you do doesn't matter.

So perhaps do what others do in this situation-- quit for a while, then come back and get even!:)

Also, no pirating took place here. Griefing took place here.

People keep using that word and I don't think it means what they think it means.

Or perhaps you think your interpretation of a situation is absolute and your opinions fact.

Griefer=A griefer is a player in a multiplayer video game who deliberately irritates and harasses other players

The player who stole my mission item deliberately irritated and harassed me did he not?

Where am I going wrong?

http://support.eveonline.com/Pages/KB/Article.aspx?id=336

You are using terms without properly checking whether or not they apply to current situation.

Let's run the article down;

"...is a player who devotes much of his time to making othersGÇÖ lives miserable..."
"At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive..."
"An example of grief play would be the so called "Can baiting" in starter systems."
"Doing the same in starter tutorialcomplexes is also considered grief play and will not be tolerated. "

Long story short? It matters little what you think about the issue, GM's have reserved the right to apply the rules on however they please and they are there to protect new players, not old players who know the name of the game.

There is a saying in school that 5% of your students cause 95% of your problems, and the same holds true in eve, but in eve for some reason they cater to the 5%. The only explanation I have ever been able to come to is that CCP truly wants no mass appeal whatsoever. They explicitly want to be a niche market.

I've had this exact same discussion before. The maker of a game can indeed determine what category they choose to place certain actions in. I do not agree however that they can redefine a word. I was griefed. If CCP chooses not to call it greifing then I guess that is their right to live in an encapsulated world where they makeup their own meanings, but that doesn't stop the rest of the world around them from continuing to use the agreed upon definitions that they have always used.

However in this situation I think are you agreeing with me. "players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others" seems to describe very accurately the player I encountered tonight.

I think someone flying around stealing peoples mission items is definitely "consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others."

Additionally, how is this is about me being a new or an old player? My disagreement is with the mechanic as a whole, and I am here to voice my opinion against the mechanic as it exists now to bring awareness to it in hopes that at some point in the future sanity may be applied to this situation and changes made.

I just wanna do a little dinky almost meaningless mission to just chill for a lil bit in Eve to mix things up. But you're saying it would be perfectly ok with you if every single time someone did a mission everyone had their quest items stolen?

And in your opinion someone would be a carebear if they complained at all if they could never finish a single mission that involved an item because you say its fine for everyone to steal them constantly?

Me and you will just have to agree to disagree I think.

I've had this exact same discussion before. The maker of a game can indeed determine what category they choose to place certain actions in. I do not agree however that they can redefine a word. I was griefed. If CCP chooses not to call it greifing then I guess that is their right to live in an encapsulated world where they makeup their own meanings, but that doesn't stop the rest of the world around them from continuing to use the agreed upon definitions that they have always used.

However in this situation I think are you agreeing with me. "players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others" seems to describe very accurately the player I encountered tonight.

I think someone flying around stealing peoples mission items is definitely "consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others."

Additionally, how is this is about me being a new or an old player? My disagreement is with the mechanic as a whole, and I am here to voice my opinion against the mechanic as it exists now to bring awareness to it in hopes that at some point in the future sanity may be applied to this situation and changes made.

abandon mission, take the standing hit (minimal) and take it again

Its not on the market, and there is only 1 on contract for 40 million. Just gunna get on an alt and do the quest up until that point and trade the item to my other character. Luckily its early in the quest.

I was just doing the sister's of eve quest and someone came and stole a guy I needed from a can. What are my options? I offered to buy the guy off him for a couple million, but as usual pirates always want the big score which is why they are always broke, and he asked for 20 mil. Not paying 20 mil for one part of a 50 part quest.

Can I petition it to get a replacement, or will it reset after downtime?

I don't belong in Eve and I am a carebear because I want to be able to do a quest without getting my quest item stolen? Seriously?

item is 40m on contracts

pirate offers to sell it for 20m

What a ripoff !!!

Which is why subscriber growth for this game has been anemic at best over the years and the player base is miniscule in comparison to almost all other mildly successful MMOs. Additionally CCP just laid off a large portion of their staff and lost a large percentage of their subscribers because they actually paid money to hire "thought experts" that told them to charge 80 dollars or whatever absurd amount they charge for a monocle.

There is a saying in school that 5% of your students cause 95% of your problems, and the same holds true in eve, but in eve for some reason they cater to the 5%. The only explanation I have ever been able to come to is that CCP truly wants no mass appeal whatsoever. They explicitly want to be a niche market.

I am all for pvp, and conflict, and fighting, and strategy, and interesting game play. However, when I am just relaxing and looking for something low key to do, and I decide to log in to eve and do a nice slow pace quest to pick up a little faction, and some guy roles up and steals my quest item and then tries to get me to pay a ridiculous amount for it, thats just annoying. It doesn't add to game play in any way. I can't see it being particularly entertaining for the guy that did it, unless he has some real issues, and its just pointless in every way. I guess I just have a problem with pointless things.

If he was attacking my POS, hey I get it. We are fighting over resources. If he attacks me in low sec I get it, he wants my stuff. If he is undercutting me on the market I get it, he wants to outsell me. If he infiltrates my corp and steals our stuff great, he is personally enriching himself.

Rolling in and stealing my janitor, then me offering 2 million, and him asking for 20 mil, and him not even making a counter offer, just a total waste of time for everyone involved. This also leads me to wonder, why the hell won't people of the pirate ideology ever negotiate? The guy probably could have gotten me up to 4 mil or so, I could have moved on with my quest, he would be 4 mil richer, but I offer 2, he asks for 20, and then nothing. Just a complete waste. Waste of an evening, waste of a game, waste of 15 bucks. Just a waste.

As it stands now this was nothing but a complete waste of time for everyone involved.

Sometimes brakes on cars are bad when they leave the factory. Thats part of the mechanics too. But they recall them and fix them. Stuff life this costs CCP more money then I think they will ever truly be able to fathom. Leaves a bad taste in a person's mouth to pay to be annoyed. Honestly it would be better to just remove concord so the guy could have attacked me and taken my stuff. At least something productive would have taken place then for someone. As it stands now this was nothing but a complete waste of time for everyone involved.

I think your post pretty much made it worth while, whoever he is.

Epic Arcs dont work like that, read the thread not just the title

You can probably buy The Damsel relatively easily

Sometimes brakes on cars are bad when they leave the factory.

Well now, let's see here... "Jet-Canning a Janitor" is the sixth mission in that arc. It will probably take at least a couple of hours all told to get to that point on your alt, right? And the only replacement janitor on contracts has an asking price of 40m.

forgive my ignorance, but doesn't a mission naturally resets itself after the daily maintenance downtime?
I was helping a RL friend of mine that couldn't complete a mission because of him not being competent with english, he basicly destroyed the scientists he was supposed to save in a lv1 mission and then docked somewhere XD
when we met IRL, the day after, he told me about that, we went together at the mission site and the sciensts were there again.
did you try this?

Nebben Centrien

No

"Why is it a grey zone?" you ask? Well, it depends if you consider the Sister's arc as part of the tutorial or not. Considering that it is supposed to introduce the new player to all mayor factions in the cluster, you could very well make the claim that it still belongs to the tutorials.

I was just doing the sister's of eve quest and someone came and stole a guy I needed from a can. What are my options? I offered to buy the guy off him for a couple million, but as usual pirates always want the big score which is why they are always broke, and he asked for 20 mil. Not paying 20 mil for one part of a 50 part quest.

Can I petition it to get a replacement, or will it reset after downtime?

There's no grey zone. Only failure to read and understand articles. http://support.eveonline.com/Pages/KB/Article.aspx?id=336

"Doing the same in starter tutorial complexes is also considered grief play and will not be tolerated. "

Last I checked no epic arcs were listed under F12, tutorials.

Tippia's opinion matters a whole lot more than yours. He actually has the respect of a large percentage of the playerbase.

I highlighted the important parts. I never claimed that they are, just that you could view them as part ot the NPE/tutorials

While I (even as a missionrunner myself) agree that the theft of mission items is quite common, can happen to anybody and is working as intendedI think that stealing from the Sister's Arc might be entering a grey zone (or is it "legal limbo"?).

Which is why subscriber growth for this game has been anemic at best over the years and the player base is miniscule in comparison to almost all other mildly successful MMOs. Additionally CCP just laid off a large portion of their staff and lost a large percentage of their subscribers because they actually paid money to hire "thought experts" that told them to charge 80 dollars or whatever absurd amount they charge for a monocle.

There is a saying in school that 5% of your students cause 95% of your problems, and the same holds true in eve, but in eve for some reason they cater to the 5%. The only explanation I have ever been able to come to is that CCP truly wants no mass appeal whatsoever. They explicitly want to be a niche market.

I am all for pvp, and conflict, and fighting, and strategy, and interesting game play. However, when I am just relaxing and looking for something low key to do, and I decide to log in to eve and do a nice slow pace quest to pick up a little faction, and some guy roles up and steals my quest item and then tries to get me to pay a ridiculous amount for it, thats just annoying. It doesn't add to game play in any way. I can't see it being particularly entertaining for the guy that did it, unless he has some real issues, and its just pointless in every way. I guess I just have a problem with pointless things.

If he was attacking my POS, hey I get it. We are fighting over resources. If he attacks me in low sec I get it, he wants my stuff. If he is undercutting me on the market I get it, he wants to outsell me. If he infiltrates my corp and steals our stuff great, he is personally enriching himself.

Rolling in and stealing my janitor, then me offering 2 million, and him asking for 20 mil, and him not even making a counter offer, just a total waste of time for everyone involved. This also leads me to wonder, why the hell won't people of the pirate ideology ever negotiate? The guy probably could have gotten me up to 4 mil or so, I could have moved on with my quest, he would be 4 mil richer, but I offer 2, he asks for 20, and then nothing. Just a complete waste. Waste of an evening, waste of a game, waste of 15 bucks. Just a waste.

Actually, you claimed that you *think* it's grey zone. That is if we want to start to split hairs about who said exactly what and where. Fact remains that Sisters Arch is not part of Tutorial due to it not being inside F12/Tutorials menu. I hope now with knowledge what they *are* you recognize your own *thinking* to be false in this matter.

I'v been playing eve since beta, and although I totally want eve to be a harsh environment the OP makes several very valid points. I believe in HTFU but when the OP says that in some cases these things do not encourage more gameplay but just troll players into quitting he is right. Do we need to keep it hard? Yeah! Do we need to actively troll players just for the fact that trolling them might annoy them? No...

Besides risk versus reward this was a zero sum operation, hardly any risk to speak of expecting a big reward by using mechanics in your favour.

Its not on the market, and there is only 1 on contract for 40 million. Just gunna get on an alt and do the quest up until that point and trade the item to my other character. Luckily its early in the quest.

But WHY WON'T THESE PEOPLE BE REASONABLE???