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Scorpion must be nerfed or give other races ECM battleships

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Atius Tirawa Minmatar Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.03 13:20:00 - [31] Amarr need to be nurfed so that other races. . . oh wait. I swear I am living a flashback - wining about scorps was soo 2004. Get with the program honey!! -----------
Apollyonn Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.12.03 13:33:00 - [32] The whole "nerf everything until its all equal!" crowd are just a bunch of Communists! The fact of the matter is, everything in the game has a niche! OMG! Did noone realize this? Hmmm...lets think shall we? The scorpion is meant to use ECM, the domi is meant to spam drones while tanking, the geddon is mean to be a versatile tanker/damage dealer depending on how you want to set it up, and the typhoon is meant to be able to be a relatively fast damage dealer. So here is the thing, if you are getting owned because your enemy is always bringing a scorpion, maybe you need to fit some sensor back-up mods on? Or maybe you should train your own EWAR skills to make yourself competitive. Just because I can lock down a bunch of your ships at the same time with a realtively high percentage chance of stopping their ability to target for a set period of time does not mean that it is overpowered or needs to be nerfed. Hell, EVEN ECM HAS FALLOFF! So what should you do? Get closer! I mean comeon, do all you fools who get your butt handed to you really need the rets of us to get on and tell you how to compete? There are so many ways to easily kill a scorp, you need to figure it out. So quit your whining and start learning how to play. Everyone has been beaten at some point, its all about not being a child and learning from your mistakes. And by the way, that looks like an alt (I cant check your character's age b/c I'm at work), if it is post with your main so we know who to come after with a bunch of scorpions!
Nahalennia Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.03 13:38:00 - [33] Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad An Amarr EW battleship would be a force to be reckoned with. Yeah, right, every other Raven pilot would wet his pants is sheer terror and fear. --------------------- CCP Prism X: Quote: Of course I do, it's just hard to fight the troll inside me. I reckon 1/3rd of my university education went into studying that art.
Naviset	Posted - 2007.12.03 13:44:00 - [34] Originally by: Car Wars Originally by: theposterofchoice Caldari have a clear unfair advantage with the scorpion. It must be brought in line with other races' battleships or the other races should be given their own ship like the Scorpion. Who is forcing you NOT to train up for a scorpion...... Keep in mind this is all just a market strategy for CCP to keep your money. FotM ships are a creation of CCP developers to keep you from quitting the game. They make "overpowered" ships so the populace will chase them, then nerf them to hades 6-8 months later and create some new unbalanced ship. I let all my alt accounts expire with trinity coming up cause I dont really care enough to continue playing when CCP doesn't care if I have fun. As for the actual topic of the thread, ECM is no longer balanced. ECM was fine before CCP gave it huge buffs. Even a couple multispecs on a (Non ECM) cruiser can keep its enemy unable to lock for the half the fight? Umm last I checked halving your damage for two slots is better than putting on the much complained about 3-slot omnitank. ECM ships are now becoming considerably more powerful, even though a blackbird could already lock down a couple battleships by itself with racials.
Relnala Estire	Posted - 2007.12.03 13:49:00 - [35] Originally by: Apollyonn The whole "nerf everything until its all equal!" crowd are just a bunch of Communists! The fact of the matter is, everything in the game has a niche! OMG! Did noone realize this? Hmmm...lets think shall we? The scorpion is meant to use ECM, the domi is meant to spam drones while tanking, the geddon is mean to be a versatile tanker/damage dealer depending on how you want to set it up, and the typhoon is meant to be able to be a relatively fast damage dealer. So here is the thing, if you are getting owned because your enemy is always bringing a scorpion, maybe you need to fit some sensor back-up mods on? Or maybe you should train your own EWAR skills to make yourself competitive. Just because I can lock down a bunch of your ships at the same time with a realtively high percentage chance of stopping their ability to target for a set period of time does not mean that it is overpowered or needs to be nerfed. Hell, EVEN ECM HAS FALLOFF! So what should you do? Get closer! I mean comeon, do all you fools who get your butt handed to you really need the rets of us to get on and tell you how to compete? There are so many ways to easily kill a scorp, you need to figure it out. So quit your whining and start learning how to play. Everyone has been beaten at some point, its all about not being a child and learning from your mistakes. And by the way, that looks like an alt (I cant check your character's age b/c I'm at work), if it is post with your main so we know who to come after with a bunch of scorpions! So the fact that the raven basically does close to the damage of the megathron with more versatility isn't violating a niche. Or the is the niche of jamming 5 battleships with 50mil isk tier 1 too sacred to violate? I like the part where you say "I can lock down a bunch of your ships". Biased opinion? Locking down a bunch of ships with one 50mil isk ship thats totally throwaway and is fitted with cheap modules, effectively saving EVERYONE else in your gang from taking primary, minimizing losses to nearly nothing while your 20 second cycles walk all over any hope they had at defending themselves... Why don't YOU think.. shall we?
Oam Mkoll Caldari HUSARIA Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.03 13:55:00 - [36] Originally by: theposterofchoice Caldari have a clear unfair advantage with the scorpion. It must be brought in line with other races' battleships or the other races should be given their own ship like the Scorpion. No. The Scorpion has been around for a long time. It's a SUPPORT ship that can't tank or gank ** if it wants to be effective as an EW platform. Any other race has at least two PvP viable battleships. Caldari are getting ONE, the torp Raven, in the patch. Now please go mourn your Eos. --- I am violence boat**
Apollyonn Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.12.03 14:08:00 - [37] Edited by: Apollyonn on 03/12/2007 14:10:01 Originally by: Relnala Estire Originally by: Apollyonn I can lock down a bunch of your ships at the same time with a realtively high percentage chance of stopping their ability to target for a set period of time does not mean that it is overpowered or needs to be nerfed. Hell, EVEN ECM HAS FALLOFF! So what should you do? Get closer! So the fact that the raven basically does close to the damage of the megathron with more versatility isn't violating a niche. Or the is the niche of jamming 5 battleships with 50mil isk tier 1 too sacred to violate? I like the part where you say "I can lock down a bunch of your ships". Biased opinion? Locking down a bunch of ships with one 50mil isk ship thats totally throwaway and is fitted with cheap modules, effectively saving EVERYONE else in your gang from taking primary, minimizing losses to nearly nothing while your 20 second cycles walk all over any hope they had at defending themselves... Why don't YOU think.. shall we? OFC I'll respond! ...even though you are joining the communist crowd... Yes, being able to lock down a bunch of ships might seem like a biased opinion. But the fact is, that is what the ship is meant to do! And if you read a little further before you started to flame me, you would see that I even mentioned a way to beat my (and anyone elses scorp), get closer! A lot of people put ABs and MWDs on ships anyways, so why not carry some short range ammo with you and just burn towards the scorp, lock, dead. That simple. Does the raven coming close to doing simliar damage to the mega violate a niche? No. Because when the raven and mega were released originally, they were meant to be the heavy damage dealers of their race respectively. If we follow your logic, the scorp should also have a massive drone bay and the domi should have a whole rack of RSDs. See the flaws in your logic? All I'm trying to say is that everything in the game has a role. Every fleet should be more well rounded. If you are getting beat every time because you are getting jammed all to Hell, maybe you need to bring some of your own support ships along instead of a fleet of uber-damage BS.
Brodde Dim	Posted - 2007.12.03 14:14:00 - [38] Originally by: Apollyonn Hell, EVEN ECM HAS FALLOFF! So what should you do? Get closer! I mean comeon, do all you fools who get your butt handed to you really need the rets of us to get on and tell you how to compete? There are so many ways to easily kill a scorp, you need to figure it out. You are kidding right? You are not suggesting getting closer as a solution when jammed? Originally by: arbalesttom Disadvantage of ecm ships is that they ALWAYS will be primary (if the fc isnt a moron ofc). + Originally by: arbalesttom A tanked scorp is only good for bait, and there are much more ships that are good at it... = sounds like the best bait ship then (unless all ships allways get called primary)
BurnYaBad Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.03 14:14:00 - [39] whhhhhaaaaaaa WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Im a whiney asswhipe... I cant have everything whaaaaaaaaaa
Apollyonn Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.12.03 14:21:00 - [40] Originally by: BurnYaBad whhhhhaaaaaaa WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Im a whiney asswhipe... I cant have everything whaaaaaaaaaa LMAO! And to the post above BurnYaBad's, yes, I am suggesting you get closer. Never thought of it? Works just fine for me. Maybe you should step out of the BS and try something else.
Waxau Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2007.12.03 14:26:00 - [41] Time to shed some light on the whole situation me thinks: Gallente - You are now in the same situation us caldari were in. Our modules were being used by everyone (ecm domis for example). Due to that, ECM was nerfed across the board. Now we're finally getting our boost (as the stupid gallente ruined it for all). Now damps have been in the same situation. As such, your damps are now nerfed across the board. So now the arazu can sit at 70 mil, and the falcon can go up to 150 mil for example. However: The scorp has ALWAYS been in game, and has always been an ECM ship. It lacks damage, it lacks speed etc. And its 'tank' is only as good (or poor) as its ecm. Eg...if you have 8 ecm, you have 0 tank. If you have 0 ECM, you have 100% tank. I could understand if it was 100% tank and ecm...but it isnt...So enough of that arguement thanks. As for it being a bait ship. Yes, it can be a bait ship. But so can any ship. All the scorp means is that it lives a few seconds more. Whoopdiedo! Not like a domi can do that is it? Or an apoc. Or even a mael? Each race has its own specialisation. Caldari have missiles. Gallente have drones. Amarr have 'something', and min have speed. You dont see caldari whining that they want a web ship. You dont see gallente whining for missiles. You dont see minmatar whining for drones. Lets put it this way.... Cruisers. My caracal has more range and dps than a stabber with the same skills. So why arent minmatar whining? They should have a long range missile boat too right? No. The game is based on Variety. Thats what makes eve distinct, better than other mmo's, and more interesting. Is it so hard to actually put up with the gallente nerf, and stop trying to take others down with you? Us caldari players didnt last year. So yea - Grow up gallente. Ya just sounding like little kids, who for the past year have been spoilt, and now been cut off
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.12.03 14:27:00 - [42] As a Caldari pilot I can only agree: each race deserves an ewar battleship of their own. --- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec.
Brodde Dim	Posted - 2007.12.03 14:29:00 - [43] Originally by: Apollyonn And to the post above BurnYaBad's, yes, I am suggesting you get closer. Never thought of it? Works just fine for me. Maybe you should step out of the BS and try something else. You should read up on optimals and falloff before you use big words like that. ECM will not be weaker the closer you get, if anything it gets stronger. Getting closer is a counter for RSD, not ECM.
Apollyonn Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.12.03 14:34:00 - [44] Originally by: Brodde Dim Originally by: Apollyonn And to the post above BurnYaBad's, yes, I am suggesting you get closer. Never thought of it? Works just fine for me. Maybe you should step out of the BS and try something else. You should read up on optimals and falloff before you use big words like that. ECM will not be weaker the closer you get, if anything it gets stronger. Getting closer is a counter for RSD, not ECM. Regardless of which one I switched for the other, I'm right. Try it, get closer to a scorp and see if he can jam you as easy. Maybe I'm just lucky, but it works pretty damne well for me.
Zenst Gallente Omniscient Order	Posted - 2007.12.03 14:46:00 - [45] Originally by: theposterofchoice Caldari have a clear unfair advantage with the scorpion. It must be brought in line with other races' battleships or the other races should be given their own ship like the Scorpion. LOL the poor scorpion will after this patch recover from nearly 3 years of nerfing. OTHER races have ECM drones which with heavy ECM drones make them just, if not more badass in ECM. Please add content to your argument beyond - That - nerf it now based upon something we dont even have now. Shame on you.
Waxau Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2007.12.03 14:50:00 - [46] Edited by: Waxau on 03/12/2007 14:50:58 Originally by: Apollyonn Originally by: Brodde Dim Originally by: Apollyonn And to the post above BurnYaBad's, yes, I am suggesting you get closer. Never thought of it? Works just fine for me. Maybe you should step out of the BS and try something else. You should read up on optimals and falloff before you use big words like that. ECM will not be weaker the closer you get, if anything it gets stronger. Getting closer is a counter for RSD, not ECM. Regardless of which one I switched for the other, I'm right. Try it, get closer to a scorp and see if he can jam you as easy. Maybe I'm just lucky, but it works pretty damne well for me. Id stop there mate, seeing as how anything else you say is just going to be tainted by your clear lack of knowledge. Firstly, ECM is not affected by 'falloff' on the lower end of the spectrum. For example, my falcon has an optimal of 144 km and a falloff of well - tbh, i dunno. But im guessing 7km or something around that. That doesnt mean that below 7km it stops working as well. From 0m to 144km i have full jamming strength. BEYOND 144km, i lose my ecm strength progessively and directly affected by falloff. If you're being jammed, getting closer does NOT help. What you have found there is a think we call luck. Which is why ECM is not overpowered with this boost. And thats all there is to it. So no...You arent right.
KD.Fluffy The Avalon Foundation	Posted - 2007.12.03 15:30:00 - [47] Quote: So the fact that the raven basically does close to the damage of the megathron with more versatility isn't violating a niche. Or the is the niche of jamming 5 battleships with 50mil isk tier 1 too sacred to violate? I like the part where you say "I can lock down a bunch of your ships". Biased opinion? Locking down a bunch of ships with one 50mil isk ship thats totally throwaway and is fitted with cheap modules, effectively saving EVERYONE else in your gang from taking primary, minimizing losses to nearly nothing while your 20 second cycles walk all over any hope they had at defending themselves... Why don't YOU think.. shall we? You have to be kidding me... You do realize if you fly with ONE ecm cruiser, blackbird or celestis you can disable the scorpion before it gets a lock? How about everyone in gang send their drones on the untanked scorpion, that will force it to warp off pretty quick as well. Use your brain man, the scorpion is not uber, it has a very cool ability to jam 3-4 ships and thats about it. What good will it be for if it can't do that? Boost The Eagle!
Hugh Ruka Caldari Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2007.12.03 15:57:00 - [48] Originally by: theposterofchoice Gallente have a clear unfair advantage with the dominix. It must be brought in line with other races' battleships or the other races should be given their own ship like the Dominix. What is your point again ? The Dominix is the best price/performance battleship in existence ... tank,damage,range,logistics,ewar whatever you think about. In a 50m ISK package. I am going to train gallente BS just because of this ship. It is the ultimate all-round ship in EVE. Cry again. Originally by: Aravel Thon Originally by: Nith Batoxxx Hi my alt just leanred to fly the ferox............... I am so so terribly sorry...
Ulstan	Posted - 2007.12.03 16:24:00 - [49] ECM is a caldari only speciality. Therefore it's silly to ask for other races to get ECM ships. Sure, as a fledgling caldari pilot it kinda bites that your first battleship is actually not a good choice for everyday activities, but another few days and you can be flying a raven anyway. You can't compare the scorpion to any other T1 battleships because it has crap dps and instead focuses on ECM. Caldari ships rely on their e-war a lot more than do other races, apparently, since there are far and away more caldari ECM dedicated boats than there are, say, target painter boats or tracking disruptor boats.
Jarvin Kell Kingdom of Kador Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.03 16:54:00 - [50] Originally by: Oam Mkoll Edited by: Oam Mkoll on 03/12/2007 13:57:48 Any other race has at least two PvP viable battleships. Caldari are getting ONE, the torp Raven, in the patch. The Rokh isn't a viable PvP battleship? On another note I haven't quite figured out why so many pilots think ECM sucks. I've been on the receiving end of being perma-jammed and I've seen my friends do the same to me when testing their ships, or in combat. Even if non-dedicated RSD ships have been dominating the E-war arena for a while, it doesn't mean that ECM is bad.
Naviset	Posted - 2007.12.03 17:11:00 - [51] Originally by: Jarvin Kell Originally by: Oam Mkoll Edited by: Oam Mkoll on 03/12/2007 13:57:48 Any other race has at least two PvP viable battleships. Caldari are getting ONE, the torp Raven, in the patch. The Rokh isn't a viable PvP battleship? On another note I haven't quite figured out why so many pilots think ECM sucks. I've been on the receiving end of being perma-jammed and I've seen my friends do the same to me when testing their ships, or in combat. Even if non-dedicated RSD ships have been dominating the E-war arena for a while, it doesn't mean that ECM is bad. ECM doesn't suck. ECM is just about right as it is right now, and so this boost seems senseless. As for apollyon above.. please learn how the game actually works before you claim to have more knowledge of it than I do. Trust me, I know what I'm talking about. Yall have used "But they're niche ships" to defend your beloved ships but you don't really care that any of other race has niche ships that are being violated by others. Either admit that no niche is sacred or stop trying to pretend only yours are.
Teimur Leng	Posted - 2007.12.03 17:44:00 - [52] Originally by: MrRookie "Dominix must be nerfed or give other races Drone battleships!" QFT Besides, if you think scorpion is really THAT uber, its not hard to train for.... Most people have electronic warfare skill to level 4 already for other reasons, just get caldari battleship 4 and signal dispersion 4 and you have your own ecm battleship.
Cyan Nuevo Dudes In Crazy Killing Ships	Posted - 2007.12.03 17:46:00 - [53] The Scorpion is fine, nerf the Apocalypse. No other ship has that much capacitor. --- Proud Amarr pilot.
Oam Mkoll Caldari HUSARIA Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.03 17:55:00 - [54] Originally by: Jarvin Kell The Rokh isn't a viable PvP battleship? It's pathetic as sniper (tracking, damage) and with blasters is a parody of other close range battleships. There's no reason to use it over any other BS. --- I am violence boat
Taggart Vector	Posted - 2007.12.03 18:32:00 - [55] I wonder how many people in this thread are aware that ECCM is ingame.
Melaxion Caldari	Posted - 2007.12.03 18:38:00 - [56] OP hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha you own! that was really good joke ;D you made my day
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2007.12.03 19:19:00 - [57] Originally by: NoNah Edited by: NoNah on 03/12/2007 11:30:39 Originally by: arbalesttom Ehm....no? Ecm has been nerfed to hell over time, and AT LAST they get a buff. Disadvantage of ecm ships is that they ALWAYS will be primary (if the fc isnt a moron ofc). And thereby, scorps rely on ecm and maybe a plate or two as a tank (so no tank really) and the damage with a scorp is also crap... In other words, scorps are good as a gang addition but other than that there crap.. Unlike all other EW-ships? That's why Recons are a forgotten class noone uses? Also note that Scorp got one of the strongest tanks in game. It's not to rare to find Scors being nothing but a baitship, without both damage and ew. ECM was indeed, nerfed, for the simple reason EVERYONE used it. However the effect on EW-ships such as the Scorpion, Rook and falcon, were less than 15%. This upcoming patch, will disable RSD's which were the only real alternative, and nerf it even for the gallente celestis and maulus line by more than 40%. The point that something has been changed at one point, does not motivate it being a doommodule today. Originally by: Damned Force Yes, and caldari's need speed, and low slot EW modules Don't cry! Adopt u fools Adopt a caldarian alt I take it? One of the strongest tanks in the game? oh sorry i though you use it primarily as an ECM boat moron, just cause it fits you to say the Scorpion is a ultimate ECM platform in one post and a uber tanker in another, doesn't mean the ship can do both at the same time.. get a grip..
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2007.12.03 19:21:00 - [58] Originally by: arbalesttom Edited by: arbalesttom on 03/12/2007 11:39:25 Originally by: NoNah Unlike all other EW-ships? That's why Recons are a forgotten class noone uses? Also note that Scorp got one of the strongest tanks in game. It's not to rare to find Scors being nothing but a baitship, without both damage and ew. ECM was indeed, nerfed, for the simple reason EVERYONE used it. However the effect on EW-ships such as the Scorpion, Rook and falcon, were less than 15%. This upcoming patch, will disable RSD's which were the only real alternative, and nerf it even for the gallente celestis and maulus line by more than 40%. The point that something has been changed at one point, does not motivate it being a doommodule today. A tanked scorp is only good for bait, and there are much more ships that are good at it... RDS has been fotm (or better said foty?) for a long time now. Ecm has been obsolete for a long long time as well. This is where the balance comes in. It might be true the new buffs to ecm may be overpowerred, but even then there is a chance you wont jam your target, something you wont have with RSD as an example. In fact, this whole ecmbuff/rdsnerf forces ships like the gallente recons to do what there ment to do, EWAR support and NOT being freaking solo boats (something even a scorpion cant do....). Edit: and no, this patch wont make ecm overpowwered, but it makes it usefull again.. Dont yield to this moron, ECM is not overpowered, It's another ewar mod that does what it supposed to be doing and UNLIKE all the other EWAR mods is marginaly useful on the SPECIALIZED ECM ships.. which SHOULD get sufficient bonuses..
AnKahn Caldari Dark Star LTD Atrocitas	Posted - 2007.12.03 19:23:00 - [59] If you use the Scorp without its bonus to ECM it performs worse than a Drake at twice the cost. I would not fly a Scorp in less than a medium gang and would hope to have at least another Scorp in the gang so perhaps I might get primaried SECOND. BTW, Probabaly be just as effective just loading up the 8 mids with tank. However a smart FC would recognize it as a fake ECM ship when it does not instapop. (i.e. if they are all shooting at you, its sort of like jamming them, right?)
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2007.12.03 19:23:00 - [60] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: theposterofchoice Caldari have a clear unfair advantage with the scorpion. It must be brought in line with other races' battleships or the other races should be given their own ship like the Scorpion. oooh I get it, the nerf croud saw they can't nerf ECM drones so now you want to nerf ECM itself. get over it. ECM is balanced. the same thing can't be said about the rest of the Ewar tho... See NoNah? Now you heard it from a fellow Gallente pilot and a very experienced one at that.. so stfu :)

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