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theposterofchoice	Posted - 2007.12.03 11:19:00 - [1] Caldari have a clear unfair advantage with the scorpion. It must be brought in line with other races' battleships or the other races should be given their own ship like the Scorpion.
arbalesttom Caldari Glauxian Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.03 11:25:00 - [2] Ehm....no? Ecm has been nerfed to hell over time, and AT LAST they get a buff. Disadvantage of ecm ships is that they ALWAYS will be primary (if the fc isnt a moron ofc). And thereby, scorps rely on ecm and maybe a plate or two as a tank (so no tank really) and the damage with a scorp is also crap... In other words, scorps are good as a gang addition but other than that there crap.. Nice hamster! - Mindstar Thanks! We wont touch this sig! - Cortes I lied - Cortes LIAR!
NoNah Tenth Legion Holdings	Posted - 2007.12.03 11:25:00 - [3] And all races need a pve-bs in line with the caldari monster, an ew-frigate and cruiser. A mining Cruiser, a freighter, a recon able to _disable_ several(none caldari) ships. The list can go on and on, right now Caldari excells at just about any given task. That doesnt mean that all good ships are caldari, but caldari got a good ship for just about every given task. Welcome, to caldari-online. Postcount: 133414
arbalesttom Caldari Glauxian Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.03 11:28:00 - [4] Originally by: NoNah And all races need a pve-bs in line with the caldari monster, an ew-frigate and cruiser. A mining Cruiser, a freighter, a recon able to _disable_ several(none caldari) ships. The list can go on and on, right now Caldari excells at just about any given task. That doesnt mean that all good ships are caldari, but caldari got a good ship for just about every given task. Welcome, to caldari-online. You are funny Can i have your drugs? Nice hamster! - Mindstar Thanks! We wont touch this sig! - Cortes I lied - Cortes LIAR!
Perry Amarr The X-Trading Company Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2007.12.03 11:29:00 - [5] No, i like my Turret/Gank, Turret/Cap and Turret/Plate Battleships. If they change one, i wouldnt know how to fit it.
Damned Force	Posted - 2007.12.03 11:29:00 - [6] Yes, and caldari's need speed, and low slot EW modules Don't cry! Adopt u fools
NoNah	Posted - 2007.12.03 11:30:00 - [7] Edited by: NoNah on 03/12/2007 11:30:39 Originally by: arbalesttom Ehm....no? Ecm has been nerfed to hell over time, and AT LAST they get a buff. Disadvantage of ecm ships is that they ALWAYS will be primary (if the fc isnt a moron ofc). And thereby, scorps rely on ecm and maybe a plate or two as a tank (so no tank really) and the damage with a scorp is also crap... In other words, scorps are good as a gang addition but other than that there crap.. Unlike all other EW-ships? That's why Recons are a forgotten class noone uses? Also note that Scorp got one of the strongest tanks in game. It's not to rare to find Scors being nothing but a baitship, without both damage and ew. ECM was indeed, nerfed, for the simple reason EVERYONE used it. However the effect on EW-ships such as the Scorpion, Rook and falcon, were less than 15%. This upcoming patch, will disable RSD's which were the only real alternative, and nerf it even for the gallente celestis and maulus line by more than 40%. The point that something has been changed at one point, does not motivate it being a doommodule today. Originally by: Damned Force Yes, and caldari's need speed, and low slot EW modules Don't cry! Adopt u fools Adopt a caldarian alt I take it? Postcount: 387097
General Coochie New Justice Minuit.	Posted - 2007.12.03 11:31:00 - [8] Give all factions all ships and we can get over all these nerf threads already. Give everyone everything in the game. Or better yet remove all ships from the game except one so we can all play "fair"
Damned Force	Posted - 2007.12.03 11:35:00 - [9] Originally by: General Coochie Give all factions all ships and we can get over all these nerf threads already. Give everyone everything in the game. Or better yet remove all ships from the game except one so we can all play "fair" capsuleblob....omgwtf111
iiOs	Posted - 2007.12.03 11:37:00 - [10]
arbalesttom Caldari Glauxian Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.03 11:38:00 - [11] Edited by: arbalesttom on 03/12/2007 11:39:25 Originally by: NoNah Unlike all other EW-ships? That's why Recons are a forgotten class noone uses? Also note that Scorp got one of the strongest tanks in game. It's not to rare to find Scors being nothing but a baitship, without both damage and ew. ECM was indeed, nerfed, for the simple reason EVERYONE used it. However the effect on EW-ships such as the Scorpion, Rook and falcon, were less than 15%. This upcoming patch, will disable RSD's which were the only real alternative, and nerf it even for the gallente celestis and maulus line by more than 40%. The point that something has been changed at one point, does not motivate it being a doommodule today. A tanked scorp is only good for bait, and there are much more ships that are good at it... RDS has been fotm (or better said foty?) for a long time now. Ecm has been obsolete for a long long time as well. This is where the balance comes in. It might be true the new buffs to ecm may be overpowerred, but even then there is a chance you wont jam your target, something you wont have with RSD as an example. In fact, this whole ecmbuff/rdsnerf forces ships like the gallente recons to do what there ment to do, EWAR support and NOT being freaking solo boats (something even a scorpion cant do....). Edit: and no, this patch wont make ecm overpowwered, but it makes it usefull again.. Nice hamster! - Mindstar Thanks! We wont touch this sig! - Cortes I lied - Cortes LIAR!
Karyuudo Tydraad Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services The Acquisition	Posted - 2007.12.03 11:40:00 - [12] WTB: Nos/Neut/TD/drone bonused Apoc with minimum 125m drone bay. =P An Amarr EW battleship would be a force to be reckoned with. A Minmatar web/TP battleship would be underwhelming. A Gallente sensor damping BS...well, it'd pretty much be a weakened scorpion. I think I'm good with things as they are.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2007.12.03 11:41:00 - [13] Originally by: theposterofchoice Caldari have a clear unfair advantage with the scorpion. It must be brought in line with other races' battleships or the other races should be given their own ship like the Scorpion. oooh I get it, the nerf croud saw they can't nerf ECM drones so now you want to nerf ECM itself. get over it. ECM is balanced. the same thing can't be said about the rest of the Ewar tho... --- planetary interaction idea!
Incantare Caldari Kernel of War Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.12.03 11:42:00 - [14] Edited by: Incantare on 03/12/2007 11:44:31 Gallente have a clear unfair advantage with the dominix. It must be brought in line with other races' battleships or the other races should be given their own drone boats. Whatever, unique doesn't imply imbalanced. And calling a races' ship unfair, well that's a laugh. It's called variety.
Karyuudo Tydraad Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services The Acquisition	Posted - 2007.12.03 11:42:00 - [15] Originally by: arbalesttom It might be true the new buffs to ecm may be overpowerred Originally by: arbalesttom Edit: and no, this patch wont make ecm overpowwered, but it makes it usefull again..
arbalesttom Caldari Glauxian Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.03 11:44:00 - [16] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: theposterofchoice Caldari have a clear unfair advantage with the scorpion. It must be brought in line with other races' battleships or the other races should be given their own ship like the Scorpion. oooh I get it, the nerf croud saw they can't nerf ECM drones so now you want to nerf ECM itself. get over it. ECM is balanced. the same thing can't be said about the rest of the Ewar tho... Ehm lol? Ecm is balanced, but the rest of the ewar isnt? Isnt that something you should call unbalanced? Nice hamster! - Mindstar Thanks! We wont touch this sig! - Cortes I lied - Cortes LIAR!
theposterofchoice	Posted - 2007.12.03 11:45:00 - [17] Balance means making all races in eve exactly the same. Innovation should be punished. Nerfs should be dealt out.
arbalesttom Caldari Glauxian Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.03 11:45:00 - [18] Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad Originally by: arbalesttom It might be true the new buffs to ecm may be overpowerred Originally by: arbalesttom Edit: and no, this patch wont make ecm overpowwered, but it makes it usefull again.. Read before poast Nice hamster! - Mindstar Thanks! We wont touch this sig! - Cortes I lied - Cortes LIAR!
Car Wars The Coalition Of Buccaneers Mercenary Services	Posted - 2007.12.03 11:45:00 - [19] Originally by: theposterofchoice Caldari have a clear unfair advantage with the scorpion. It must be brought in line with other races' battleships or the other races should be given their own ship like the Scorpion. Who is forcing you NOT to train up for a scorpion......
Karyuudo Tydraad Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services The Acquisition	Posted - 2007.12.03 11:50:00 - [20] Originally by: arbalesttom Edited by: arbalesttom on 03/12/2007 11:47:30 Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad Originally by: arbalesttom It might be true the new buffs to ecm may be overpowerred Originally by: arbalesttom Edit: and no, this patch wont make ecm overpowwered, but it makes it usefull again.. Read before poast It just seems rather odd that you'd include the first statement at all when the second speaks in absolute terms.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2007.12.03 11:52:00 - [21] Originally by: arbalesttom Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: theposterofchoice Caldari have a clear unfair advantage with the scorpion. It must be brought in line with other races' battleships or the other races should be given their own ship like the Scorpion. oooh I get it, the nerf croud saw they can't nerf ECM drones so now you want to nerf ECM itself. get over it. ECM is balanced. the same thing can't be said about the rest of the Ewar tho... Ehm lol? Ecm is balanced, but the rest of the ewar isnt? Isnt that something you should call unbalanced? ECM as it is, in relation to how to counter it and its effectiveness is balanced. the rest of Ewar is unbalanced, as in "I better fly something other than my TD/TP/RSD ship to do anything marginally good". however, by the way CCP's does things I expect to see ECM nerfed into oblivion, as they did with the overpowered damps and the even more (lol) overpowered tracking disruptors, instead boosting them a bit. --- planetary interaction idea!
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.12.03 11:56:00 - [22] Originally by: theposterofchoice Caldari have a clear unfair advantage with the scorpion. It must be brought in line with other races' battleships or the other races should be given their own ship like the Scorpion. No, it shouldn't. There should be different flavours and so for different races. If you want to fly a scorp, then bloody well train for a scorp, it's not like you're hemmed in by anything, same as caldari pilots have to train for a, say, domi if they want a drone-BS. Rifters!
arbalesttom Caldari Glauxian Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.03 11:56:00 - [23] Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad Originally by: arbalesttom Edited by: arbalesttom on 03/12/2007 11:47:30 Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad Originally by: arbalesttom It might be true the new buffs to ecm may be overpowerred Originally by: arbalesttom Edit: and no, this patch wont make ecm overpowwered, but it makes it usefull again.. Read before poast It just seems rather odd that you'd include the first statement at all when the second speaks in absolute terms. Hmmm you got me there i think and i blame heineken for it But yeah, i think you got my point anyway, so dont make it harder for me than it is already to talk 'proper' english.. Nah, all i was trying to make clear is that ecm needed this buff for sure, but who can tell that it is overpowerred.. time will tell i guess. Nice hamster! - Mindstar Thanks! We wont touch this sig! - Cortes I lied - Cortes LIAR!
arbalesttom Caldari Glauxian Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.03 12:05:00 - [24] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: arbalesttom Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: theposterofchoice Caldari have a clear unfair advantage with the scorpion. It must be brought in line with other races' battleships or the other races should be given their own ship like the Scorpion. oooh I get it, the nerf croud saw they can't nerf ECM drones so now you want to nerf ECM itself. get over it. ECM is balanced. the same thing can't be said about the rest of the Ewar tho... Ehm lol? Ecm is balanced, but the rest of the ewar isnt? Isnt that something you should call unbalanced? ECM as it is, in relation to how to counter it and its effectiveness is balanced. the rest of Ewar is unbalanced, as in "I better fly something other than my TD/TP/RSD ship to do anything marginally good". however, by the way CCP's does things I expect to see ECM nerfed into oblivion, as they did with the overpowered damps and the even more (lol) overpowered tracking disruptors, instead boosting them a bit. I got your point, was just trolling around I even see the gallente recons will be the perfect anti ecm support ships from now on, because if they stay at a reasonable range they can completely shut down a scorp (or other ecm ship) and have the advantage of being able to dictate range. Also, now that trackingcomps etc will be nerfed, there will be a good possibility trackingdisrupors will become a bit more viable (even after they get nerfed) in fleetbattles, mostly because the trackingcomp-nerf forces bs sniper fleets to be closer to each other and trackingdisruptors will mess around with the (already) horrible tracking on the post-trinity bs fleets. Hell yeah, even painters might become viable! Nice hamster! - Mindstar Thanks! We wont touch this sig! - Cortes I lied - Cortes LIAR!
ChimeraRouge Caldari Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.12.03 12:07:00 - [25] damps and tds are now inline with ECM, quit ur whining.
welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.12.03 12:11:00 - [26] Edited by: welsh wizard on 03/12/2007 12:11:32 It wasn't overpowered before the RMR nerf on any of the ECM ships. Now its basically as strong as it was with the option of damage mods (no tank) and rigs (less tank still). As far as I'm concerned all thats changed is ECM ships now have the option to fit for ECM damage or tank. ECM is a very large part of the Caldari fighting philosophy anyway, it isnt a part-time thing like the other races ewars, its supposed to be formiddable. This is why the ships that utilise it are completely and utterly hopeless for anything else. Unlike the other races ewar ships. --------------- you all smell!
Deaf Luggage Minmatar The Feminists	Posted - 2007.12.03 12:21:00 - [27] Edited by: Deaf Luggage on 03/12/2007 12:22:00 Only perceptions change, ECM was good and will be, dampeners were good and will be. The changes are marginal for EW ships, it's just that they won't be that effective on non-EW ships, and that's a good thing. The counter to ECM are dampeners. They will still be after Trinity. Get your Lachesis in range. If you can't, learn to play, noob.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2007.12.03 12:25:00 - [28] Originally by: arbalesttom I got your point, was just trolling around I even see the gallente recons will be the perfect anti ecm support ships from now on, because if they stay at a reasonable range they can completely shut down a scorp (or other ecm ship) and have the advantage of being able to dictate range. Also, now that trackingcomps etc will be nerfed, there will be a good possibility trackingdisrupors will become a bit more viable (even after they get nerfed) in fleetbattles, mostly because the trackingcomp-nerf forces bs sniper fleets to be closer to each other and trackingdisruptors will mess around with the (already) horrible tracking on the post-trinity bs fleets. Hell yeah, even painters might become viable! ...indeed.. now if only TD's or RSD's could hit reliably at 200km range... oh btw, yes the scorp can still jam at that range, and yes, BS'es can still shoot at that range. how? scripts might be a bad addition, but on contrary to what happened to the RSD's, they can still make a megathron shoot at that range, altho with less tracking, and target at that range, altho it will take a bit more time. same goes for the scorp, where you can push it up to jam at 200km with ease. Originally by: ChimeraRouge damps and tds are now inline with ECM, quit ur whining. Of course they were --- planetary interaction idea!
General Coochie New Justice Minuit.	Posted - 2007.12.03 12:58:00 - [29] Originally by: theposterofchoice Balance means making all races in eve exactly the same. Innovation should be punished. Nerfs should be dealt out.
MrRookie Caldari Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2007.12.03 13:04:00 - [30] "Dominix must be nerfed or give other races Drone battleships!" Sig removed. Please email us at [email protected] if you would like to know why. -Conuion Meow May I have pink next time plz?
Atius Tirawa Minmatar Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.03 13:20:00 - [31] Amarr need to be nurfed so that other races. . . oh wait. I swear I am living a flashback - wining about scorps was soo 2004. Get with the program honey!! -----------
Apollyonn Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.12.03 13:33:00 - [32] The whole "nerf everything until its all equal!" crowd are just a bunch of Communists! The fact of the matter is, everything in the game has a niche! OMG! Did noone realize this? Hmmm...lets think shall we? The scorpion is meant to use ECM, the domi is meant to spam drones while tanking, the geddon is mean to be a versatile tanker/damage dealer depending on how you want to set it up, and the typhoon is meant to be able to be a relatively fast damage dealer. So here is the thing, if you are getting owned because your enemy is always bringing a scorpion, maybe you need to fit some sensor back-up mods on? Or maybe you should train your own EWAR skills to make yourself competitive. Just because I can lock down a bunch of your ships at the same time with a realtively high percentage chance of stopping their ability to target for a set period of time does not mean that it is overpowered or needs to be nerfed. Hell, EVEN ECM HAS FALLOFF! So what should you do? Get closer! I mean comeon, do all you fools who get your butt handed to you really need the rets of us to get on and tell you how to compete? There are so many ways to easily kill a scorp, you need to figure it out. So quit your whining and start learning how to play. Everyone has been beaten at some point, its all about not being a child and learning from your mistakes. And by the way, that looks like an alt (I cant check your character's age b/c I'm at work), if it is post with your main so we know who to come after with a bunch of scorpions!
Nahalennia Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.03 13:38:00 - [33] Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad An Amarr EW battleship would be a force to be reckoned with. Yeah, right, every other Raven pilot would wet his pants is sheer terror and fear. --------------------- CCP Prism X: Quote: Of course I do, it's just hard to fight the troll inside me. I reckon 1/3rd of my university education went into studying that art.
Naviset	Posted - 2007.12.03 13:44:00 - [34] Originally by: Car Wars Originally by: theposterofchoice Caldari have a clear unfair advantage with the scorpion. It must be brought in line with other races' battleships or the other races should be given their own ship like the Scorpion. Who is forcing you NOT to train up for a scorpion...... Keep in mind this is all just a market strategy for CCP to keep your money. FotM ships are a creation of CCP developers to keep you from quitting the game. They make "overpowered" ships so the populace will chase them, then nerf them to hades 6-8 months later and create some new unbalanced ship. I let all my alt accounts expire with trinity coming up cause I dont really care enough to continue playing when CCP doesn't care if I have fun. As for the actual topic of the thread, ECM is no longer balanced. ECM was fine before CCP gave it huge buffs. Even a couple multispecs on a (Non ECM) cruiser can keep its enemy unable to lock for the half the fight? Umm last I checked halving your damage for two slots is better than putting on the much complained about 3-slot omnitank. ECM ships are now becoming considerably more powerful, even though a blackbird could already lock down a couple battleships by itself with racials.
Relnala Estire	Posted - 2007.12.03 13:49:00 - [35] Originally by: Apollyonn The whole "nerf everything until its all equal!" crowd are just a bunch of Communists! The fact of the matter is, everything in the game has a niche! OMG! Did noone realize this? Hmmm...lets think shall we? The scorpion is meant to use ECM, the domi is meant to spam drones while tanking, the geddon is mean to be a versatile tanker/damage dealer depending on how you want to set it up, and the typhoon is meant to be able to be a relatively fast damage dealer. So here is the thing, if you are getting owned because your enemy is always bringing a scorpion, maybe you need to fit some sensor back-up mods on? Or maybe you should train your own EWAR skills to make yourself competitive. Just because I can lock down a bunch of your ships at the same time with a realtively high percentage chance of stopping their ability to target for a set period of time does not mean that it is overpowered or needs to be nerfed. Hell, EVEN ECM HAS FALLOFF! So what should you do? Get closer! I mean comeon, do all you fools who get your butt handed to you really need the rets of us to get on and tell you how to compete? There are so many ways to easily kill a scorp, you need to figure it out. So quit your whining and start learning how to play. Everyone has been beaten at some point, its all about not being a child and learning from your mistakes. And by the way, that looks like an alt (I cant check your character's age b/c I'm at work), if it is post with your main so we know who to come after with a bunch of scorpions! So the fact that the raven basically does close to the damage of the megathron with more versatility isn't violating a niche. Or the is the niche of jamming 5 battleships with 50mil isk tier 1 too sacred to violate? I like the part where you say "I can lock down a bunch of your ships". Biased opinion? Locking down a bunch of ships with one 50mil isk ship thats totally throwaway and is fitted with cheap modules, effectively saving EVERYONE else in your gang from taking primary, minimizing losses to nearly nothing while your 20 second cycles walk all over any hope they had at defending themselves... Why don't YOU think.. shall we?
Oam Mkoll Caldari HUSARIA Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.03 13:55:00 - [36] Originally by: theposterofchoice Caldari have a clear unfair advantage with the scorpion. It must be brought in line with other races' battleships or the other races should be given their own ship like the Scorpion. No. The Scorpion has been around for a long time. It's a SUPPORT ship that can't tank or gank ** if it wants to be effective as an EW platform. Any other race has at least two PvP viable battleships. Caldari are getting ONE, the torp Raven, in the patch. Now please go mourn your Eos. --- I am violence boat**
Apollyonn Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.12.03 14:08:00 - [37] Edited by: Apollyonn on 03/12/2007 14:10:01 Originally by: Relnala Estire Originally by: Apollyonn I can lock down a bunch of your ships at the same time with a realtively high percentage chance of stopping their ability to target for a set period of time does not mean that it is overpowered or needs to be nerfed. Hell, EVEN ECM HAS FALLOFF! So what should you do? Get closer! So the fact that the raven basically does close to the damage of the megathron with more versatility isn't violating a niche. Or the is the niche of jamming 5 battleships with 50mil isk tier 1 too sacred to violate? I like the part where you say "I can lock down a bunch of your ships". Biased opinion? Locking down a bunch of ships with one 50mil isk ship thats totally throwaway and is fitted with cheap modules, effectively saving EVERYONE else in your gang from taking primary, minimizing losses to nearly nothing while your 20 second cycles walk all over any hope they had at defending themselves... Why don't YOU think.. shall we? OFC I'll respond! ...even though you are joining the communist crowd... Yes, being able to lock down a bunch of ships might seem like a biased opinion. But the fact is, that is what the ship is meant to do! And if you read a little further before you started to flame me, you would see that I even mentioned a way to beat my (and anyone elses scorp), get closer! A lot of people put ABs and MWDs on ships anyways, so why not carry some short range ammo with you and just burn towards the scorp, lock, dead. That simple. Does the raven coming close to doing simliar damage to the mega violate a niche? No. Because when the raven and mega were released originally, they were meant to be the heavy damage dealers of their race respectively. If we follow your logic, the scorp should also have a massive drone bay and the domi should have a whole rack of RSDs. See the flaws in your logic? All I'm trying to say is that everything in the game has a role. Every fleet should be more well rounded. If you are getting beat every time because you are getting jammed all to Hell, maybe you need to bring some of your own support ships along instead of a fleet of uber-damage BS.
Brodde Dim	Posted - 2007.12.03 14:14:00 - [38] Originally by: Apollyonn Hell, EVEN ECM HAS FALLOFF! So what should you do? Get closer! I mean comeon, do all you fools who get your butt handed to you really need the rets of us to get on and tell you how to compete? There are so many ways to easily kill a scorp, you need to figure it out. You are kidding right? You are not suggesting getting closer as a solution when jammed? Originally by: arbalesttom Disadvantage of ecm ships is that they ALWAYS will be primary (if the fc isnt a moron ofc). + Originally by: arbalesttom A tanked scorp is only good for bait, and there are much more ships that are good at it... = sounds like the best bait ship then (unless all ships allways get called primary)
BurnYaBad Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.03 14:14:00 - [39] whhhhhaaaaaaa WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Im a whiney asswhipe... I cant have everything whaaaaaaaaaa
Apollyonn Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.12.03 14:21:00 - [40] Originally by: BurnYaBad whhhhhaaaaaaa WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Im a whiney asswhipe... I cant have everything whaaaaaaaaaa LMAO! And to the post above BurnYaBad's, yes, I am suggesting you get closer. Never thought of it? Works just fine for me. Maybe you should step out of the BS and try something else.
Waxau Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2007.12.03 14:26:00 - [41] Time to shed some light on the whole situation me thinks: Gallente - You are now in the same situation us caldari were in. Our modules were being used by everyone (ecm domis for example). Due to that, ECM was nerfed across the board. Now we're finally getting our boost (as the stupid gallente ruined it for all). Now damps have been in the same situation. As such, your damps are now nerfed across the board. So now the arazu can sit at 70 mil, and the falcon can go up to 150 mil for example. However: The scorp has ALWAYS been in game, and has always been an ECM ship. It lacks damage, it lacks speed etc. And its 'tank' is only as good (or poor) as its ecm. Eg...if you have 8 ecm, you have 0 tank. If you have 0 ECM, you have 100% tank. I could understand if it was 100% tank and ecm...but it isnt...So enough of that arguement thanks. As for it being a bait ship. Yes, it can be a bait ship. But so can any ship. All the scorp means is that it lives a few seconds more. Whoopdiedo! Not like a domi can do that is it? Or an apoc. Or even a mael? Each race has its own specialisation. Caldari have missiles. Gallente have drones. Amarr have 'something', and min have speed. You dont see caldari whining that they want a web ship. You dont see gallente whining for missiles. You dont see minmatar whining for drones. Lets put it this way.... Cruisers. My caracal has more range and dps than a stabber with the same skills. So why arent minmatar whining? They should have a long range missile boat too right? No. The game is based on Variety. Thats what makes eve distinct, better than other mmo's, and more interesting. Is it so hard to actually put up with the gallente nerf, and stop trying to take others down with you? Us caldari players didnt last year. So yea - Grow up gallente. Ya just sounding like little kids, who for the past year have been spoilt, and now been cut off
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.12.03 14:27:00 - [42] As a Caldari pilot I can only agree: each race deserves an ewar battleship of their own. --- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec.
Brodde Dim	Posted - 2007.12.03 14:29:00 - [43] Originally by: Apollyonn And to the post above BurnYaBad's, yes, I am suggesting you get closer. Never thought of it? Works just fine for me. Maybe you should step out of the BS and try something else. You should read up on optimals and falloff before you use big words like that. ECM will not be weaker the closer you get, if anything it gets stronger. Getting closer is a counter for RSD, not ECM.
Apollyonn Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.12.03 14:34:00 - [44] Originally by: Brodde Dim Originally by: Apollyonn And to the post above BurnYaBad's, yes, I am suggesting you get closer. Never thought of it? Works just fine for me. Maybe you should step out of the BS and try something else. You should read up on optimals and falloff before you use big words like that. ECM will not be weaker the closer you get, if anything it gets stronger. Getting closer is a counter for RSD, not ECM. Regardless of which one I switched for the other, I'm right. Try it, get closer to a scorp and see if he can jam you as easy. Maybe I'm just lucky, but it works pretty damne well for me.
Zenst Gallente Omniscient Order	Posted - 2007.12.03 14:46:00 - [45] Originally by: theposterofchoice Caldari have a clear unfair advantage with the scorpion. It must be brought in line with other races' battleships or the other races should be given their own ship like the Scorpion. LOL the poor scorpion will after this patch recover from nearly 3 years of nerfing. OTHER races have ECM drones which with heavy ECM drones make them just, if not more badass in ECM. Please add content to your argument beyond - That - nerf it now based upon something we dont even have now. Shame on you.
Waxau Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2007.12.03 14:50:00 - [46] Edited by: Waxau on 03/12/2007 14:50:58 Originally by: Apollyonn Originally by: Brodde Dim Originally by: Apollyonn And to the post above BurnYaBad's, yes, I am suggesting you get closer. Never thought of it? Works just fine for me. Maybe you should step out of the BS and try something else. You should read up on optimals and falloff before you use big words like that. ECM will not be weaker the closer you get, if anything it gets stronger. Getting closer is a counter for RSD, not ECM. Regardless of which one I switched for the other, I'm right. Try it, get closer to a scorp and see if he can jam you as easy. Maybe I'm just lucky, but it works pretty damne well for me. Id stop there mate, seeing as how anything else you say is just going to be tainted by your clear lack of knowledge. Firstly, ECM is not affected by 'falloff' on the lower end of the spectrum. For example, my falcon has an optimal of 144 km and a falloff of well - tbh, i dunno. But im guessing 7km or something around that. That doesnt mean that below 7km it stops working as well. From 0m to 144km i have full jamming strength. BEYOND 144km, i lose my ecm strength progessively and directly affected by falloff. If you're being jammed, getting closer does NOT help. What you have found there is a think we call luck. Which is why ECM is not overpowered with this boost. And thats all there is to it. So no...You arent right.
KD.Fluffy The Avalon Foundation	Posted - 2007.12.03 15:30:00 - [47] Quote: So the fact that the raven basically does close to the damage of the megathron with more versatility isn't violating a niche. Or the is the niche of jamming 5 battleships with 50mil isk tier 1 too sacred to violate? I like the part where you say "I can lock down a bunch of your ships". Biased opinion? Locking down a bunch of ships with one 50mil isk ship thats totally throwaway and is fitted with cheap modules, effectively saving EVERYONE else in your gang from taking primary, minimizing losses to nearly nothing while your 20 second cycles walk all over any hope they had at defending themselves... Why don't YOU think.. shall we? You have to be kidding me... You do realize if you fly with ONE ecm cruiser, blackbird or celestis you can disable the scorpion before it gets a lock? How about everyone in gang send their drones on the untanked scorpion, that will force it to warp off pretty quick as well. Use your brain man, the scorpion is not uber, it has a very cool ability to jam 3-4 ships and thats about it. What good will it be for if it can't do that? Boost The Eagle!
Hugh Ruka Caldari Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2007.12.03 15:57:00 - [48] Originally by: theposterofchoice Gallente have a clear unfair advantage with the dominix. It must be brought in line with other races' battleships or the other races should be given their own ship like the Dominix. What is your point again ? The Dominix is the best price/performance battleship in existence ... tank,damage,range,logistics,ewar whatever you think about. In a 50m ISK package. I am going to train gallente BS just because of this ship. It is the ultimate all-round ship in EVE. Cry again. Originally by: Aravel Thon Originally by: Nith Batoxxx Hi my alt just leanred to fly the ferox............... I am so so terribly sorry...
Ulstan	Posted - 2007.12.03 16:24:00 - [49] ECM is a caldari only speciality. Therefore it's silly to ask for other races to get ECM ships. Sure, as a fledgling caldari pilot it kinda bites that your first battleship is actually not a good choice for everyday activities, but another few days and you can be flying a raven anyway. You can't compare the scorpion to any other T1 battleships because it has crap dps and instead focuses on ECM. Caldari ships rely on their e-war a lot more than do other races, apparently, since there are far and away more caldari ECM dedicated boats than there are, say, target painter boats or tracking disruptor boats.
Jarvin Kell Kingdom of Kador Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.03 16:54:00 - [50] Originally by: Oam Mkoll Edited by: Oam Mkoll on 03/12/2007 13:57:48 Any other race has at least two PvP viable battleships. Caldari are getting ONE, the torp Raven, in the patch. The Rokh isn't a viable PvP battleship? On another note I haven't quite figured out why so many pilots think ECM sucks. I've been on the receiving end of being perma-jammed and I've seen my friends do the same to me when testing their ships, or in combat. Even if non-dedicated RSD ships have been dominating the E-war arena for a while, it doesn't mean that ECM is bad.
Naviset	Posted - 2007.12.03 17:11:00 - [51] Originally by: Jarvin Kell Originally by: Oam Mkoll Edited by: Oam Mkoll on 03/12/2007 13:57:48 Any other race has at least two PvP viable battleships. Caldari are getting ONE, the torp Raven, in the patch. The Rokh isn't a viable PvP battleship? On another note I haven't quite figured out why so many pilots think ECM sucks. I've been on the receiving end of being perma-jammed and I've seen my friends do the same to me when testing their ships, or in combat. Even if non-dedicated RSD ships have been dominating the E-war arena for a while, it doesn't mean that ECM is bad. ECM doesn't suck. ECM is just about right as it is right now, and so this boost seems senseless. As for apollyon above.. please learn how the game actually works before you claim to have more knowledge of it than I do. Trust me, I know what I'm talking about. Yall have used "But they're niche ships" to defend your beloved ships but you don't really care that any of other race has niche ships that are being violated by others. Either admit that no niche is sacred or stop trying to pretend only yours are.
Teimur Leng	Posted - 2007.12.03 17:44:00 - [52] Originally by: MrRookie "Dominix must be nerfed or give other races Drone battleships!" QFT Besides, if you think scorpion is really THAT uber, its not hard to train for.... Most people have electronic warfare skill to level 4 already for other reasons, just get caldari battleship 4 and signal dispersion 4 and you have your own ecm battleship.
Cyan Nuevo Dudes In Crazy Killing Ships	Posted - 2007.12.03 17:46:00 - [53] The Scorpion is fine, nerf the Apocalypse. No other ship has that much capacitor. --- Proud Amarr pilot.
Oam Mkoll Caldari HUSARIA Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.03 17:55:00 - [54] Originally by: Jarvin Kell The Rokh isn't a viable PvP battleship? It's pathetic as sniper (tracking, damage) and with blasters is a parody of other close range battleships. There's no reason to use it over any other BS. --- I am violence boat
Taggart Vector	Posted - 2007.12.03 18:32:00 - [55] I wonder how many people in this thread are aware that ECCM is ingame.
Melaxion Caldari	Posted - 2007.12.03 18:38:00 - [56] OP hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha you own! that was really good joke ;D you made my day
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2007.12.03 19:19:00 - [57] Originally by: NoNah Edited by: NoNah on 03/12/2007 11:30:39 Originally by: arbalesttom Ehm....no? Ecm has been nerfed to hell over time, and AT LAST they get a buff. Disadvantage of ecm ships is that they ALWAYS will be primary (if the fc isnt a moron ofc). And thereby, scorps rely on ecm and maybe a plate or two as a tank (so no tank really) and the damage with a scorp is also crap... In other words, scorps are good as a gang addition but other than that there crap.. Unlike all other EW-ships? That's why Recons are a forgotten class noone uses? Also note that Scorp got one of the strongest tanks in game. It's not to rare to find Scors being nothing but a baitship, without both damage and ew. ECM was indeed, nerfed, for the simple reason EVERYONE used it. However the effect on EW-ships such as the Scorpion, Rook and falcon, were less than 15%. This upcoming patch, will disable RSD's which were the only real alternative, and nerf it even for the gallente celestis and maulus line by more than 40%. The point that something has been changed at one point, does not motivate it being a doommodule today. Originally by: Damned Force Yes, and caldari's need speed, and low slot EW modules Don't cry! Adopt u fools Adopt a caldarian alt I take it? One of the strongest tanks in the game? oh sorry i though you use it primarily as an ECM boat moron, just cause it fits you to say the Scorpion is a ultimate ECM platform in one post and a uber tanker in another, doesn't mean the ship can do both at the same time.. get a grip..
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2007.12.03 19:21:00 - [58] Originally by: arbalesttom Edited by: arbalesttom on 03/12/2007 11:39:25 Originally by: NoNah Unlike all other EW-ships? That's why Recons are a forgotten class noone uses? Also note that Scorp got one of the strongest tanks in game. It's not to rare to find Scors being nothing but a baitship, without both damage and ew. ECM was indeed, nerfed, for the simple reason EVERYONE used it. However the effect on EW-ships such as the Scorpion, Rook and falcon, were less than 15%. This upcoming patch, will disable RSD's which were the only real alternative, and nerf it even for the gallente celestis and maulus line by more than 40%. The point that something has been changed at one point, does not motivate it being a doommodule today. A tanked scorp is only good for bait, and there are much more ships that are good at it... RDS has been fotm (or better said foty?) for a long time now. Ecm has been obsolete for a long long time as well. This is where the balance comes in. It might be true the new buffs to ecm may be overpowerred, but even then there is a chance you wont jam your target, something you wont have with RSD as an example. In fact, this whole ecmbuff/rdsnerf forces ships like the gallente recons to do what there ment to do, EWAR support and NOT being freaking solo boats (something even a scorpion cant do....). Edit: and no, this patch wont make ecm overpowwered, but it makes it usefull again.. Dont yield to this moron, ECM is not overpowered, It's another ewar mod that does what it supposed to be doing and UNLIKE all the other EWAR mods is marginaly useful on the SPECIALIZED ECM ships.. which SHOULD get sufficient bonuses..
AnKahn Caldari Dark Star LTD Atrocitas	Posted - 2007.12.03 19:23:00 - [59] If you use the Scorp without its bonus to ECM it performs worse than a Drake at twice the cost. I would not fly a Scorp in less than a medium gang and would hope to have at least another Scorp in the gang so perhaps I might get primaried SECOND. BTW, Probabaly be just as effective just loading up the 8 mids with tank. However a smart FC would recognize it as a fake ECM ship when it does not instapop. (i.e. if they are all shooting at you, its sort of like jamming them, right?)
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2007.12.03 19:23:00 - [60] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: theposterofchoice Caldari have a clear unfair advantage with the scorpion. It must be brought in line with other races' battleships or the other races should be given their own ship like the Scorpion. oooh I get it, the nerf croud saw they can't nerf ECM drones so now you want to nerf ECM itself. get over it. ECM is balanced. the same thing can't be said about the rest of the Ewar tho... See NoNah? Now you heard it from a fellow Gallente pilot and a very experienced one at that.. so stfu :)
Rick Thwaites Caritas.	Posted - 2007.12.03 19:27:00 - [61] Originally by: theposterofchoice Caldari have a clear unfair advantage with the scorpion. It must be brought in line with other races' battleships or the other races should be given their own ship like the Scorpion. Sure. When Caldari can get a good PvP BS. Sure, the Rokh isn't bad, but it is only good for long range, take the same amount of SP and jump into a mega or a 'geddon'... Caldari are ECM, that's what they do. They are support. ECM is support. Dare you to try and solo in an ECM ship. --
Warloxx Dominus Imperium	Posted - 2007.12.03 19:29:00 - [62] What I donÆt understand is when are all of you guys that cry nerf on 'other' races ships flying in gangs that arenÆt a mix of ships from other races? Are you guys just flying in Gallente gangs? Amarr Gangs? etc... Adjust your gangs and move on, here is another novel idea: tank yourself for ECM - add a racial ECCM to your ship if your so damn worried about getting jammed, that with the backup of your own ECM ship in your gang, problem solved. Fill your role in your gang and let the pilots that trained ECM do their job for your gang. Ridiculous post Wisdom gained from study of the basic principles of war underscores that war is not the business of managers with checklists; it is the art of Combat Leaders.
Commander Thrawn Fluffy Rabbit Killers	Posted - 2007.12.03 19:31:00 - [63] Originally by: theposterofchoice Caldari have a clear unfair advantage with the scorpion. It must be brought in line with other races' battleships or the other races should be given their own ship like the Scorpion. I hate you
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2007.12.03 19:35:00 - [64] Originally by: Naviset Originally by: Car Wars Originally by: theposterofchoice Caldari have a clear unfair advantage with the scorpion. It must be brought in line with other races' battleships or the other races should be given their own ship like the Scorpion. Who is forcing you NOT to train up for a scorpion...... Keep in mind this is all just a market strategy for CCP to keep your money. FotM ships are a creation of CCP developers to keep you from quitting the game. They make "overpowered" ships so the populace will chase them, then nerf them to hades 6-8 months later and create some new unbalanced ship. I let all my alt accounts expire with trinity coming up cause I dont really care enough to continue playing when CCP doesn't care if I have fun. As for the actual topic of the thread, ECM is no longer balanced. ECM was fine before CCP gave it huge buffs. Even a couple multispecs on a (Non ECM) cruiser can keep its enemy unable to lock for the half the fight? Umm last I checked halving your damage for two slots is better than putting on the much complained about 3-slot omnitank. ECM ships are now becoming considerably more powerful, even though a blackbird could already lock down a couple battleships by itself with racials. Really? I'd like to have your cruiser, if this is the case then CCP should nerf the ECM on NON-ECM ships even more while leaving it EXACTLY the same on specialized ECM ships. There, fixed..
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2007.12.03 19:36:00 - [65] Originally by: AnKahn If you use the Scorp without its bonus to ECM it performs worse than a Drake at twice the cost. I would not fly a Scorp in less than a medium gang and would hope to have at least another Scorp in the gang so perhaps I might get primaried SECOND. BTW, Probabaly be just as effective just loading up the 8 mids with tank. However a smart FC would recognize it as a fake ECM ship when it does not instapop. (i.e. if they are all shooting at you, its sort of like jamming them, right?) Hahah,I liked that last one, that you're ECMing them b/c you're eating their ammo..
Atsuko Ratu Caldari Advanced Logistics	Posted - 2007.12.03 19:39:00 - [66] Can Caldari please get a dedicated drone bship to bring it in line with the Gal race? A speed one too please, minnys have one, why not us! Caldari also need a useless one or else Amarr will still be miles ahead of us (see what I did there?). See, I can do it too. Op fails.
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2007.12.03 19:42:00 - [67] Originally by: Waxau Time to shed some light on the whole situation me thinks: Gallente - You are now in the same situation us caldari were in. Our modules were being used by everyone (ecm domis for example). Due to that, ECM was nerfed across the board. Now we're finally getting our boost (as the stupid gallente ruined it for all). Now damps have been in the same situation. As such, your damps are now nerfed across the board. So now the arazu can sit at 70 mil, and the falcon can go up to 150 mil for example. However: The scorp has ALWAYS been in game, and has always been an ECM ship. It lacks damage, it lacks speed etc. And its 'tank' is only as good (or poor) as its ecm. Eg...if you have 8 ecm, you have 0 tank. If you have 0 ECM, you have 100% tank. I could understand if it was 100% tank and ecm...but it isnt...So enough of that arguement thanks. As for it being a bait ship. Yes, it can be a bait ship. But so can any ship. All the scorp means is that it lives a few seconds more. Whoopdiedo! Not like a domi can do that is it? Or an apoc. Or even a mael? Each race has its own specialisation. Caldari have missiles. Gallente have drones. Amarr have 'something', and min have speed. You dont see caldari whining that they want a web ship. You dont see gallente whining for missiles. You dont see minmatar whining for drones. Lets put it this way.... Cruisers. My caracal has more range and dps than a stabber with the same skills. So why arent minmatar whining? They should have a long range missile boat too right? No. The game is based on Variety. Thats what makes eve distinct, better than other mmo's, and more interesting. Is it so hard to actually put up with the gallente nerf, and stop trying to take others down with you? Us caldari players didnt last year. So yea - Grow up gallente. Ya just sounding like little kids, who for the past year have been spoilt, and now been cut off What this man says...
Atsuko Ratu Caldari Advanced Logistics	Posted - 2007.12.03 19:42:00 - [68] Originally by: Naviset ECM ships are now becoming considerably more powerful, even though a blackbird could already lock down a couple battleships by itself with racials. ECM revieced no boost to non-bonused ships in terms of jamming power. A non-dedicated cruiser with a full wrack of multispecs and 3 ECM boost in the lows will still have about a 30% chance to jam a bship, and if it fails once it will probably just die. And ya, FoTM is totally a CCP invention. Oh wait, every MMO has them, it's called "balance". If the game was 100% balanced, it would be incredibely boring. Look I have rock, oh **** paper! Run!
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2007.12.03 19:49:00 - [69] Originally by: Cyan Nuevo The Scorpion is fine, nerf the Apocalypse. No other ship has that much capacitor.
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2007.12.03 20:18:00 - [70]
Waxau Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2007.12.03 20:35:00 - [71] Originally by: Atsuko Ratu Originally by: Naviset ECM ships are now becoming considerably more powerful, even though a blackbird could already lock down a couple battleships by itself with racials. ECM revieced no boost to non-bonused ships in terms of jamming power. A non-dedicated cruiser with a full wrack of multispecs and 3 ECM boost in the lows will still have about a 30% chance to jam a bship, and if it fails once it will probably just die. And ya, FoTM is totally a CCP invention. Oh wait, every MMO has them, it's called "balance". If the game was 100% balanced, it would be incredibely boring. Look I have rock, oh **** paper! Run! Lol love it ^^ On a side note, i DO understand the gallente's anger at the moment, as it is identical to the ECM nerf last year. Its the same situation, and the same nerf. And sadly, CCP havent learned their lesson. However, thats no excuse to start trying to nerf the opposition. The amount of abuse ive had this past year for using ECM ships is beyond belief. So for gallente pilots, i hope your Damps are boosted soon. However, simply put - The scorp is primarily an ecm boat, and its secondary role is...um... Well - Yeah. They can do one thing, and thats jam. Anything else, and any other race can do it better. And they arent an uber i-win ship like a fleet of nos nano domis. All they can do is jam. You get a fleet full of Scorps? Most you can hope for is you can run away. Nothing else will come of it. So on closing...Im sure every single ECM veteran knows your pain, however use us as an example. Moan to ccp, dont try to take felow EW pilots with you.
Xzar Fyrarr	Posted - 2007.12.03 23:20:00 - [72] Originally by: theposterofchoice Caldari have a clear unfair advantage with the scorpion. It must be brought in line with other races' battleships or the other races should be given their own ship like the Scorpion. O O While your at that.... Caldari have a CLEAR advantage with running missions and ratting too! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE CCP, give us other race's a mission god ship other than the raven! O and don't forget gallente! Their drones are too much of an advantage to them, nerf them so moar pleshkthnxbai. In short... I think the op phails?
ChimeraRouge Caldari Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.12.03 23:35:00 - [73] Originally by: Atsuko Ratu Can Caldari please get a dedicated drone bship to bring it in line with the Gal race? A speed one too please, minnys have one, why not us! Caldari also need a useless one or else Amarr will still be miles ahead of us (see what I did there?). See, I can do it too. Op fails. this
Sharkk	Posted - 2007.12.04 00:04:00 - [74] With the exception of the OP and asorted other whiners...This thread is full of win! I love seeing these kind of whine threads' ***ed on hard! Keep up the good work. Oh and "Caldari-online" is now as original as "nerf Armar" learn a new 1 liner pls /goes back to training gallente BS 5
MrRookie Caldari Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2007.12.04 00:12:00 - [75] Originally by: Black Scorpio Originally by: Cyan Nuevo The Scorpion is fine, nerf the Apocalypse. No other ship has that much capacitor. Also the apoc has 8 turret hardpoints. Mega 7, Tempest 6 and the Raven 6 missile points. I mean wtf is this about..? Nerf the Apoc further Sig removed. Please email us at [email protected] if you would like to know why. -Conuion Meow May I have pink next time plz?
Sonyya Caldari	Posted - 2007.12.04 00:17:00 - [76] if it wasnt mentioned why not just train to fly it
Cautet North Siders	Posted - 2007.12.04 02:26:00 - [77] Edited by: Cautet on 04/12/2007 02:35:08 Originally by: Warloxx What I donÆt understand is when are all of you guys that cry nerf on 'other' races ships flying in gangs that arenÆt a mix of ships from other races? Are you guys just flying in Gallente gangs? Amarr Gangs? etc... Ridiculous post Absolutely. In fact, to add to this if your gang always just flys one race of ship you are just asking to be ecm'd anyway. Why players moan and moan about races when they a. can train other races and b. should have team-mates flying different race ships to be truly effective. So nerfing other races is also nerfing your gang. This ECM whinge is so over the top about a small increase to a bs sized ship snail of a ship that was worse at ewar than the cruiser sized option, and so was the one about mimitar recons.
HarryManback Minmatar Conniving Opportunist	Posted - 2007.12.04 02:31:00 - [78] Originally by: theposterofchoice Caldari have a clear unfair advantage with the scorpion. It must be brought in line with other races' battleships or the other races should be given their own ship like the Scorpion. You got ECM pwned by a scorpion didnt you. Amarr Recon/Electronics Attack Ship/almost Black Ops pilot for auction
Verlaine Glariant Knights of the Flame Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.12.04 03:49:00 - [79] If you think the Scorpion is overpowered, go grab one. Verlaine Glariant. Tactical Weapons Specialist.
Aerin Cloudfayr Extreme Addiction Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2007.12.04 04:26:00 - [80] damn, lots of unhappy chappys here... Scorpion doesn't need a nerf because you can actually protect yourself against ECM modules (ECCM + Sensor Backup Arrays), unlike TDs + RSDs. Your opposition may ECM your ass to the stone-age, but your gang-mates can remote ECCM each other, making jamming a whole lot less of a problem. Remember teamwork kiddies, it's fun in the sun for everyone (b^-')b
Erik Reister	Posted - 2007.12.04 05:28:00 - [81] Originally by: Aerin Cloudfayr damn, lots of unhappy chappys here... Scorpion doesn't need a nerf because you can actually protect yourself against ECM modules (ECCM + Sensor Backup Arrays), unlike TDs + RSDs. Your opposition may ECM your ass to the stone-age, but your gang-mates can remote ECCM each other, making jamming a whole lot less of a problem. Remember teamwork kiddies, it's fun in the sun for everyone (b^-')b Okay while I agree about ECM not needing nerfed. It's being brought back in line. However, i just had to respond that you sir, are a moron. Tracking disruptor's don't have a counter? what are tracking enhancers and tracking computers, oh wait, and RSD's don't have a counter? whats that sensor booster thing you have on your ship, or the signal amplifier for that matter. Also, add in my final bit here, it's clear through everyones response amarr needs a boost. I mean ****t. everyone wants one of our useless ass ships...
Theron Gyrow Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.12.04 06:43:00 - [82] Originally by: Rick Thwaites Originally by: theposterofchoice Caldari have a clear unfair advantage with the scorpion. It must be brought in line with other races' battleships or the other races should be given their own ship like the Scorpion. Sure. When Caldari can get a good PvP BS. Sure, the Rokh isn't bad, but it is only good for long range, take the same amount of SP and jump into a mega or a 'geddon'... Caldari are ECM, that's what they do. They are support. ECM is support. Dare you to try and solo in an ECM ship. I disagree with nerfing the Scorpion, but after the Trinity torp changes, this argument fails. Raven will be crazy good. -- Gradient forum
Tai Paktu Kiith Paktu Nex Eternus	Posted - 2007.12.04 06:49:00 - [83] Edited by: Tai Paktu on 04/12/2007 06:50:02 Edited by: Tai Paktu on 04/12/2007 06:49:42 Edited by: Tai Paktu on 04/12/2007 06:49:12 Edited for failing at linkage. Postin' in this thread. Again. When reading about people's opinions on the nerfs/boosts/balances, there seem to be 2 types of people. The ones who see a change, have an opinion of it and continue to play, adapting to the new dynamic the change creates. These people realise that in an MMO, there will undoubtedly be attemptes to shuffle things aorund by the Devs and that there will be support and resistance to these changes. We'll deal. http://youtube.com/watch?v=Dnhdw7DhRu4. This seems to be the other group. __________________________ Sig Starts here! Don't even start. Originally by: ISD Santiago Cortes Cleaned Please try and keep the flamage to a minimum, failing that, at least raise the quality.
Delichon Caldari	Posted - 2007.12.04 07:31:00 - [84] Originally by: Theron Gyrow I disagree with nerfing the Scorpion, but after the Trinity torp changes, this argument fails. Raven will be crazy good. Raven will be OK, but not uber. Reasons - explosion velocity and explosion radius of Torps. There will be a lot of Ravens on killboards - because every Jack and Larry can pilot one for L4 mission running, but Ravens will be on both loss-mails nad kill-mails. ------------------------------------------ All nerfs are meant to hurt you personally. Next time they are going to nerf you directly. Eve Forums.
Ipos	Posted - 2007.12.04 08:10:00 - [85] A nerf call for the Scorpion? OP fails in ways not before thought humanly possible. If his point is to make Battleship class ECM boats more viable then sure, why not. But since when did the Scorpion deserve to be nerfed? You hardly even see the things anymore. As for the Raven it'll be good but it still won't be able to hold much of anything down if it wants to fit a tank. But at least now it'll be one of the best gang ships around with it's high damage output across a decent range (it could even use javs), interchangeable damage types and whilst still having a decent tank. It'll also have a delightful agility which makes perfect for thoose gang ops aswell. - Caldari finally got something i return for sucking in 1vs1.
hellsknights RennTech SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.04 09:14:00 - [86] OMG, shut up witht eh nerf threads, they shoul dmake a section just for you lame ass'es. I CRAP ON THIS THREAD!
Endo Dy Gallente Enrave Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.12.04 11:20:00 - [87] IF <topictitle> contains 'nerf' THAN delete On the other hand i think you are right. Give the Dominix a 6th medslot and give it a ECM bonus on top of the hybrid and drone dmg bonus. Let's balance this game people
theposterofchoice	Posted - 2007.12.04 11:26:00 - [88] Only one person noticed my second post in this thread. Thanks for being part of this parody though.

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