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I am so sick and tired of the so called pvp.

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Minmatar Citizen 4521577	Posted - 2007.12.04 12:36:00 - [61] Originally by: Kyusoath Orillian Edited by: Kyusoath Orillian on 04/12/2007 12:26:47 when 10 of us sit at a gate in 0.0 and blast to hell the shuttles and t1 frigs that fly thru , every time i do this i think , 'no one is gonna be stupid enough to come thru on there own in a frig or shuttle , no way, no one is that dumb' time and time again i see it happen, i still can't believe how stupid these people are , and i really wish some one would try and break the camp with 10+ bc's or something. but instead its 20+ frigs per day one at a time. absolutely no chance of survival. Yea, cause you obviously don't have a scout one ahead to let you know when to get the **** out of the gate. Right.
Buyerr	Posted - 2007.12.04 12:39:00 - [62] Originally by: Drasked Originally by: Danton Marcellus Edited by: Danton Marcellus on 04/12/2007 12:28:09 Originally by: IntegralHellsing get a gang of 10 and engage another gang of 10 then. simple. Problem is the other gang of 10 won't engage seeing even numbers and you would've wasted another 9 peoples time. If you somehow can bait them with 3 ships able to tank to hell and back then maybe... Hopefully they'll come up with something along with factional warfare to encourage actual see-saw engagements. Your making it sound like baiting peolpe is hard? it can be very hard if not dealing with noobss but once again it all comes down to patient and who have the most time to wasted waiting
Cailais Amarr VITOC	Posted - 2007.12.04 12:42:00 - [63] I have to agree with the general thrust of the OPs argument. Gate Camps have relatively skill involved, and I think its hard to term them 'pvp' in the sense of combat. However I think its important that 'pvp' begins before you leave station, where you intend to go and in what ship. Gate Camping is more akin to mining, than say a roaming fleet/gang. Its pretty static and not particularly exciting - however it can be very profitable. Id like to see more "travel" options within Eve as a whole, secret gates that link the current systems in a differing configuration of routes. C. Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Dehumanisation - griefers are cool and if you are not a griefer, you do not belong here.
Katharina Gorbacheva Amarr Soviet Star Federation Celestial Frontier	Posted - 2007.12.04 12:50:00 - [64] Highest lvl is 126, not 70, if you have to compare then at least get it right!
iiOs	Posted - 2007.12.04 12:52:00 - [65] ALERT
Maximillian Power Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.12.04 12:54:00 - [66] Originally by: Chrysalis D'lilth Wait a minute, i thought stealth bombers put an end to blobbing ??? brilliant
Drasked North Face Force	Posted - 2007.12.04 12:56:00 - [67] Originally by: Buyerr Originally by: Drasked Originally by: Danton Marcellus Edited by: Danton Marcellus on 04/12/2007 12:28:09 Originally by: IntegralHellsing get a gang of 10 and engage another gang of 10 then. simple. Problem is the other gang of 10 won't engage seeing even numbers and you would've wasted another 9 peoples time. If you somehow can bait them with 3 ships able to tank to hell and back then maybe... Hopefully they'll come up with something along with factional warfare to encourage actual see-saw engagements. Your making it sound like baiting peolpe is hard? it can be very hard if not dealing with noobss but once again it all comes down to patient and who have the most time to wasted waiting It can be verry hard if your noob, indeed. And from everything you wrote in this thread i can tell your epic fail at pvp, your mistaking your attpemts at pvp for actual pvp.
Raneru Darwin With Attitude oooh Shiny	Posted - 2007.12.04 13:01:00 - [68] Originally by: Chloey Rans EvE is this, Eve is that. Wonder where you all know this from? The way Eve is played is just according to a set of rules the Devs give us. And the Devs didn't give us weapons of mass destruction. If there would be a nuclear torpedo in EvE, blobs at gates would not exist. Huh? Doomsday Devices, Bombs and the poor mans DD exist.
kurg Amarr Science Production And NuKing Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.04 13:12:00 - [69] Originally by: Buyerr I am so sick and tired of the so called pvp. Ganked 10V1 is NOT PVP. Killing a defenceless ship is NOT pvp! It have around the same pvp element as me jumping some one from behind with a baseball bat and celling it a ôfightö afterwards. You gotta change the lame and extremely stupid way gates and pvp works. Or you will end up with nothing but gankers! I am so sick and tired of getting ganked and I am so sick and tired of having to gank. There is freaking more pvp and tactic in freaking WORLD OF WARCRAFT. How big do you think that game would be if lvl 70 could stand around killing lvl 5Æs all day?! (which is kind of the same odds when ganking some one). Get your head out of you buttholes and do some work on the pvp section of the game so pvp will Actually become pvp and not just a freaking gang-*****of some oneà Sigh FFS.. canÆt be that freaking hard.. I hear you, i know what you mean and its even worse for new players that end up with missions which take them thru low-sec systems for cargo missions. What i find even more comical is the fact that even if it took 10+ people to kill 1 single shuttle they still call it "a fight" and post the killmail as if they accomplished something great!. The problem isnt gankers, the problem is the core mechanics of PvP in eve, the loss is too harsh, so no one wants to lose. and Unless they know they will NOT lose then the next best option is to be in a large group which will most likely ensure they will not lose hence PvP in Eve the bigger the blob the higher the chance you have to win and not lose. Its that simple, no real tactics no real skill except a roll of dice in hopes of having a fitting thats better then the opponent OR simply out number your opponent so its overwelming, again no real skill or tactics. Its abit sad and most Eve fanboys will never admit to this and post "it take skill to pvp" yeah ok... sure
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Military Industrial Research	Posted - 2007.12.04 13:23:00 - [70] I wish people like the OP weren't playing this great game with me.

Rakshasa Taisab Caldari Sane Industries Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.04 13:30:00 - [71] I collect stuff in 0.0 and move it to empire. PvP for me means making sure I don't get ganked and lose hundreds of millions in isk. It's PvP by my definition, and I _enjoy_ it. When I get ganked it wasn't a fair fight, and most likely I got unlucky or did something stupid.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.12.04 13:31:00 - [72] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 04/12/2007 13:36:28 Originally by: kurg Its that simple, no real tactics no real skill except a roll of dice in hopes of having a fitting thats better then the opponent OR simply out number your opponent so its overwelming, again no real skill or tactics ... is why you need to outblob to win. I mean, seriously. You can't get a fair fight? Boo-hoo. People who are after your stuff might not care about fair. Don't want to play the 0.0 game? Go to low-sec, groups are typically smaller there. Want fair 1v1s? Well, make contests in high-sec like Curzon does, or something. Claiming that PvP is no skill and just numbers and roll of the dice reminds me of how some people actually fight. Nothing like beating people who think that way in a 5v2 fight and scooping their loot ;) Rifters!
Skjorta	Posted - 2007.12.04 13:38:00 - [73] Uh oh, somebody got popped. I'm pretty sure that tactic is used irl too, not just WOW. "omg, 10 ships can take on my one? no ******* way" Sorry, it's hard not to troll this post.
kurg Amarr Science Production And NuKing Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.04 14:03:00 - [74] Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 04/12/2007 13:36:28 Originally by: kurg Its that simple, no real tactics no real skill except a roll of dice in hopes of having a fitting thats better then the opponent OR simply out number your opponent so its overwelming, again no real skill or tactics ... is why you need to outblob to win. I mean, seriously. You can't get a fair fight? Boo-hoo. People who are after your stuff might not care about fair. Don't want to play the 0.0 game? Go to low-sec, groups are typically smaller there. Want fair 1v1s? Well, make contests in high-sec like Curzon does, or something. Claiming that PvP is no skill and just numbers and roll of the dice reminds me of how some people actually fight. Nothing like beating people who think that way in a 5v2 fight and scooping their loot ;) Need i say more PS. Thanks for making my point!
ry ry StateCorp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.12.04 14:05:00 - [75] Originally by: Buyerr I am so sick and tired of the so called pvp. Ganked 10V1 is NOT PVP. Killing a defenceless ship is NOT pvp! It have around the same pvp element as me jumping some one from behind with a baseball bat and celling it a ôfightö afterwards. You gotta change the lame and extremely stupid way gates and pvp works. Or you will end up with nothing but gankers! I am so sick and tired of getting ganked and I am so sick and tired of having to gank. There is freaking more pvp and tactic in freaking WORLD OF WARCRAFT. How big do you think that game would be if lvl 70 could stand around killing lvl 5Æs all day?! (which is kind of the same odds when ganking some one). Get your head out of you buttholes and do some work on the pvp section of the game so pvp will Actually become pvp and not just a freaking gang-*****of some oneà Sigh FFS.. canÆt be that freaking hard.. freaking much? Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Cyrilis	Posted - 2007.12.04 14:27:00 - [76] In reality the problem is EVE is too real. I would assume you live ina nice safe place where nothing really bad ever happens. In places like Darfur where roving gangs can kill at will with impunity bad things happen. Without people banding together to form govenments to protect thier own intrests: safety, security a way to address grievences withtout violence. Bad things can and will happen. When you leave the heavly protected space you need to be prepared for the worst.
Buyerr	Posted - 2007.12.04 14:38:00 - [77] Originally by: Cyrilis In reality the problem is EVE is too real. I would assume you live ina nice safe place where nothing really bad ever happens. In places like Darfur where roving gangs can kill at will with impunity bad things happen. Without people banding together to form govenments to protect thier own intrests: safety, security a way to address grievences withtout violence. Bad things can and will happen. When you leave the heavly protected space you need to be prepared for the worst. yup, but this is a game not RL, if i wanted the real **** and annoying element of RL i would just go out the door and not use time in a game ;) althought that is not completely true, since in real life some rules are made really fast and even in the worst countries there are some unwritten roles since you can't just get a clone when you die... which let people do whatever without any consequence... although the main thing with this tread is not that it is too harsh (i have no problem with that), but that pvp is as it is.
Haniblecter Teg F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2007.12.04 14:41:00 - [78] My 12 man gang took on at least 30 actives in a 70 count local. Bring friends and have no fear...cheaper ships helps too. ----------------- Friends Forever
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Military Industrial Research	Posted - 2007.12.04 14:42:00 - [79] Have you considered the idea that maybe this game works fine but just isn't the right game for you?
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.12.04 14:42:00 - [80] Gatecamps, deadspace ganks, being gangf*cked in belts. Welcome to the life of a soloist in lowsec and 0.0. The moment you undock alone in a freefire zone, you're a guppy in a pool full of pirahna. Working in 0.0 isn't about glory, its about survival. The first casualty of survival is pride. Just because you can undock in 0.0 doesn't entitle you to be there unbothered. You earn the right through your guns or your brains. You either fight your way through, or you slip your way through. VERY very few alliances will give you a free pass, and those that do, you treat like gold.

Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2007.12.04 14:52:00 - [81] Originally by: Janu Hull Gatecamps, deadspace ganks, being gangf*cked in belts. Welcome to the life of a soloist in lowsec and 0.0. The moment you undock alone in a freefire zone, you're a guppy in a pool full of pirahna. Working in 0.0 isn't about glory, its about survival. The first casualty of survival is pride. Just because you can undock in 0.0 doesn't entitle you to be there unbothered. You earn the right through your guns or your brains. You either fight your way through, or you slip your way through. VERY very few alliances will give you a free pass, and those that do, you treat like gold. there you have it. I've been playing since 2003, running missions in low-sec since 2004. number of ships lost during missions in low-sec: 5. it's just a matter of losing your pride and think about survival first. Pride kills, gentleman. Pride kills. --- planetary interaction idea!
Commander Prishe Caldari The LoneStar Corp Edge Of Sanity	Posted - 2007.12.04 15:03:00 - [82] Originally by: Buyerr I am so sick and tired of the so called pvp. Ganked 10V1 is NOT PVP. Killing a defenceless ship is NOT pvp! It have around the same pvp element as me jumping some one from behind with a baseball bat and celling it a ôfightö afterwards. You gotta change the lame and extremely stupid way gates and pvp works. Or you will end up with nothing but gankers! I am so sick and tired of getting ganked and I am so sick and tired of having to gank. There is freaking more pvp and tactic in freaking WORLD OF WARCRAFT. How big do you think that game would be if lvl 70 could stand around killing lvl 5Æs all day?! (which is kind of the same odds when ganking some one). Get your head out of you buttholes and do some work on the pvp section of the game so pvp will Actually become pvp and not just a freaking gang-***of some oneà Sigh FFS.. canÆt be that freaking hard.. You hit the nail on the head there. This is the exact reason 80% of EVE players dont leave high sec. Who the ** wants to get ganked by 10 ships lol. The reality is most mmo players prefer to play solo with the occasional group (gang) play, this is mainly due to not having the time to group up for long periods, and im afraid solo fair pvp for the average player is almost impossible in EVE.
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.12.04 15:07:00 - [83] Edited by: Janu Hull on 04/12/2007 15:07:24 The other side of scrapping pride is getting used to the occassional explosion and Podkill Express ride. I've lost more Ravens, Drakes and Rokhs than I can remember. Annoying, yes, but then again, I've got a fully kit up Rokh in empire, an efficiently set up Raven in low sec on a 0.0 border, and enough money to put a third ship in space if the spirit moved me. My alt has been set up with two Covetors in 0.0 and a Hulk (in empire, obviously) so he can make some additional money mining. All of this financed by 0.0 ratting in full acceptance of the occassional arsebeating at the hands of the local wolfpacks. Thankfully, I survive more than I die (I don't dare use the word "win" for now), and it keeps me going.
UMEE	Posted - 2007.12.04 15:34:00 - [84] Originally by: Buyerr I am so sick and tired of the so called pvp. Ganked 10V1 is NOT PVP. Killing a defenceless ship is NOT pvp! It have around the same pvp element as me jumping some one from behind with a baseball bat and celling it a ôfightö afterwards. You gotta change the lame and extremely stupid way gates and pvp works. Or you will end up with nothing but gankers! I am so sick and tired of getting ganked and I am so sick and tired of having to gank. There is freaking more pvp and tactic in freaking WORLD OF WARCRAFT. How big do you think that game would be if lvl 70 could stand around killing lvl 5Æs all day?! (which is kind of the same odds when ganking some one). Get your head out of you buttholes and do some work on the pvp section of the game so pvp will Actually become pvp and not just a freaking gang-*****of some oneà Sigh FFS.. canÆt be that freaking hard.. i actually prefer WoW PVP myself simply cuz if i feel like PVPing, i'll go and PVP. in EVE, i have to look for a fight...sometimes for a long time and chances of winning can be quite slim those arent even my issues though. what bothers me the most is that PVP happens either at gates, asteroid belts (if you feel like ganking someone), and, if ure lucky to be in a war-decced corp, at outposts/POSs. but mostly at gates. without warp disruption bubbles, and with the warp to 0km feature, gate PVP wont even happen. so there's nothing "free" about LOOKING for PVP....cuz u may not get any for hours. EVE PVP is garbage essentially (simply because it's not structured and has no objectives...unless you roleplay and make your own) BUT it looks good, has cool toys, and it's the only thing in space =) so yea, I'll play EVE, but I definitely go back to WoW all the time.
Sky Grunthor Minmatar Core Element	Posted - 2007.12.04 15:40:00 - [85] Originally by: kurg Its that simple, no real tactics no real skill except a roll of dice in hopes of having a fitting thats better then the opponent OR simply out number your opponent so its overwelming, again no real skill or tactics Kurg I have been in a fight of 8 vs 4. We where the 8, they where the 4 and they won. They controlled the battlefield. Determined engagements. and wiped out our asses for us. They did this even though we where all experienced and semi experienced pvpr's because we chose to duke it out and they chose to duke it out and they had the better tactics and plan. This game can be about blob versus blob but it is only that way if both sides choose that. I have rarely been in a blob vs blob fight. (I dont consider 8 on one side being a blob) but I have been in many small gang fights. Gang fights are great. they are fun and exciting and get your heart racing. I get on eve quite often and go out with my gang of around 6 usually looking for a fight. Whether that fight is with 1, 2, 3 or 10 people it doesn't matter. what matters is wether we think we can win. not know we can but think we can. its a decision we made that getting out and fighting is more important and enjoyable than protecting your assetts by only fighting with overwhelming advantage. If you are not finding that kind of opponent then you must not be in low sec all that much. We find that kind of fight pretty regularly. And we all have fun doing it. And we get a special kick by doing it to a person with a stick up there .... well you understand. :D Search: Sky Grunthor
UMEE	Posted - 2007.12.04 15:52:00 - [86] Originally by: Buyerr Originally by: Cyrilis In reality the problem is EVE is too real. I would assume you live ina nice safe place where nothing really bad ever happens. In places like Darfur where roving gangs can kill at will with impunity bad things happen. Without people banding together to form govenments to protect thier own intrests: safety, security a way to address grievences withtout violence. Bad things can and will happen. When you leave the heavly protected space you need to be prepared for the worst. yup, but this is a game not RL, if i wanted the real **** and annoying element of RL i would just go out the door and not use time in a game ;) althought that is not completely true, since in real life some rules are made really fast and even in the worst countries there are some unwritten roles since you can't just get a clone when you die... which let people do whatever without any consequence... although the main thing with this tread is not that it is too harsh (i have no problem with that), but that pvp is as it is. I totally agree. in addition, EVE PVP has NO OBJECTIVES... the real objective of the game is to make cash and get better at using your ship so that you CAN PVP. however, there are no situations that throw you in the middle of PVP; you can chill in 0.0 or empire just PVE'ing without anyone bothering you, and there is no concrete reason to PVP. in a way, we have to "use our imagination" to justify PVP, or make up reasons to pvp, and this bores me. - create missions that require you to PVP (bounty is lame because it just gives you money) - have maybe half a dozen regions (not the entire freaking world) over which players have a good reason to fight; this would concentrate PVP and make it more exciting - remove gates (will never happen), remove warp to 0km; black ops and jump drives are not the right moves because most people don't have these ships; and won't. - YES, have structured SCENARIOS that put you and the opposing side in one solar system; one team to take over some base, deliver top secret data, assassinate an NPC, whatever, and the other team has to prevent this. so great. we have these sick capital ships, carriers, the works. why? wtf is the point? so you can dominate the other side? why? what are you fighting for? resources? outposts? meh, i'll go somewhere else. so once you have these resources and outposts, what then? you can dock and/or earn the same isk you could have earned running lvl 4's. PVP has to be truly mandatory. it's not in EVE. pirates and gankers are manifestations of people TRYING really hard to PVP
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.12.04 16:05:00 - [87] Piracy and ganking are simply the lowest common denominators of PvP. They're not the only form, but you'll see it more often than not because its the form of PvP most focused on seeking unwilling targets. Its the easiest method of PvPing with the most immediate return on investment. When it comes to alliances, you may not see the point of towers, stations and sovreignty, but call'em crazy, they do. You don't see it much because its VERY goal oriented. You don't blob the caps for a grins and giggles night raiding the belt ratters, you bring them out to make another alliance very nervous about their survival odds. If there's a form of PvP that needs a desperately overdue boost, its anti-pirate PvP. People who would protect others from player pirates are hammered for daring to do it in low sec empire with security status hits that aren't in their best interests. Its not that there's no interest in playing the "good guys", the mechanics of the game just do not support it adequately, to say nothing of the fact that its largely a losing proposition from an income standpoint.
Cyrilis	Posted - 2007.12.04 16:12:00 - [88] Originally by: UMEE Originally by: Buyerr Originally by: Cyrilis In reality the problem is EVE is too real. I would assume you live ina nice safe place where nothing really bad ever happens. In places like Darfur where roving gangs can kill at will with impunity bad things happen. Without people banding together to form govenments to protect thier own intrests: safety, security a way to address grievences withtout violence. Bad things can and will happen. When you leave the heavly protected space you need to be prepared for the worst. yup, but this is a game not RL, if i wanted the real **** and annoying element of RL i would just go out the door and not use time in a game ;) althought that is not completely true, since in real life some rules are made really fast and even in the worst countries there are some unwritten roles since you can't just get a clone when you die... which let people do whatever without any consequence... although the main thing with this tread is not that it is too harsh (i have no problem with that), but that pvp is as it is. I totally agree. in addition, EVE PVP has NO OBJECTIVES... the real objective of the game is to make cash and get better at using your ship so that you CAN PVP. however, there are no situations that throw you in the middle of PVP; you can chill in 0.0 or empire just PVE'ing without anyone bothering you, and there is no concrete reason to PVP. in a way, we have to "use our imagination" to justify PVP, or make up reasons to pvp, and this bores me. - create missions that require you to PVP (bounty is lame because it just gives you money) - have maybe half a dozen regions (not the entire freaking world) over which players have a good reason to fight; this would concentrate PVP and make it more exciting - remove gates (will never happen), remove warp to 0km; black ops and jump drives are not the right moves because most people don't have these ships; and won't. - YES, have structured SCENARIOS that put you and the opposing side in one solar system; one team to take over some base, deliver top secret data, assassinate an NPC, whatever, and the other team has to prevent this. so great. we have these sick capital ships, carriers, the works. why? wtf is the point? so you can dominate the other side? why? what are you fighting for? resources? outposts? meh, i'll go somewhere else. so once you have these resources and outposts, what then? you can dock and/or earn the same isk you could have earned running lvl 4's. PVP has to be truly mandatory. it's not in EVE. pirates and gankers are manifestations of people TRYING really hard to PVP If people who had sovrenty used it to protect people entering thier system, setup trade and protect it, charge taxes for this etc etc. Their would need to be some mechanics for this like a distress call perhaps that sends your warp to location to sovrenty holding members in a system so they can help you.
Doomed Predator Xoth Inc Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.12.04 16:21:00 - [89] Edited by: Doomed Predator on 04/12/2007 16:21:27 I hope the OP got podded too with some expensive impplants. It's too hard to have a scout or support or a cloak, or WCS or ECM or a mwd or nanos or .... Besides,do not undock in something you cannot afford to lose. Now give stuff or the bunny gets it
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.12.04 16:31:00 - [90] Most alliances that set up sovreignty have zero interest in allowing anyone but their alliance members using their systems. Consider. An average territorial alliance is 800 members. Average alliances control maybe a handful of systems, say 10. Now, not everyone in the alliance is on all the time, so say only half the alliance is active at any given time. That's still about 40 people per system, if there's not a pressing matter requiring the alliance to gather into a fleet. Point being, most alliances have the built in ability to maximally use the space they've taken. Its not always going to be in their best interests to let anyone else use it, because why else would they secure it for themselves? 0.0 isn't like empire at all. You can see a hundred people in an empire system every day of the year like its nothing. You see a hundred people in a 0.0 system, your ass starts looking for a safe spot. That many people in one place is either an alliance's home system, or some serious sh*t is about to happen/is happening. Its a totally different dynamic, and its very self oriented. If an alliance gives you a pass to work their space, they typically expect something from you in return.



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