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I am so sick and tired of the so called pvp.

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Buyerr	Posted - 2007.12.04 09:21:00 - [1] I am so sick and tired of the so called pvp. Ganked 10V1 is NOT PVP. Killing a defenceless ship is NOT pvp! It have around the same pvp element as me jumping some one from behind with a baseball bat and celling it a ôfightö afterwards. You gotta change the lame and extremely stupid way gates and pvp works. Or you will end up with nothing but gankers! I am so sick and tired of getting ganked and I am so sick and tired of having to gank. There is freaking more pvp and tactic in freaking WORLD OF WARCRAFT. How big do you think that game would be if lvl 70 could stand around killing lvl 5Æs all day?! (which is kind of the same odds when ganking some one). Get your head out of you buttholes and do some work on the pvp section of the game so pvp will Actually become pvp and not just a freaking gang-*****of some oneà Sigh FFS.. canÆt be that freaking hard..
Mark Lucius The Vinlanders SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.04 09:24:00 - [2] [ ]Use scouts. [ ]Don't fly alone. [ ]Get your friends. [x]Waaah waaah. --- Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
NTRabbit Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club Enelaise	Posted - 2007.12.04 09:24:00 - [3] Originally by: Buyerr I am so sick and tired of the so called pvp. Ganked 10V1 is NOT PVP. Killing a defenceless ship is NOT pvp! It have around the same pvp element as me jumping some one from behind with a baseball bat and celling it a ôfightö afterwards. Why not? It's the safest way, isn't it? ------
Zaqar	Posted - 2007.12.04 09:27:00 - [4]
Niccolado Starwalker Shadow Templars	Posted - 2007.12.04 09:27:00 - [5] Im going to try to be reasonable toward you. Most likely I will be the only one who aint going to ask for your stuff and point you toward WoW.. A special thing about EVE is the non-consentual PvP. You are free to do whatever you want to, even in Highsec, just as long you can take the beating by concord and loss of sec status. Most players dont want this to change. It is after all what makes eve special! I reccomend joining a empire corp or staying in a NPC corp. Many consider the last thing lame, but its a valid option, and its your choice. Its up to you in other words. ' The price to stay safe is less options. Low sec and deep space will not really be available if you want to avoid PvP. There are however lots of things to do in Empire. Mining and missioning. And you can have just as much fun as they who are in dee space, without having to worry too much about podding. Just beware to not beg to be podded by flying very valuable stuffs around unprotected. Empire is safer - not safe! Last thing ill help you with is to donate a flame suit for you. You WILL need it! Good luck! Sarah McTeef: You all should really try and stay on topic. Which when I last checked, was my grocery list
Karlemgne The Black Fleet The Cosa Nostra	Posted - 2007.12.04 09:31:00 - [6] Can I have your stuff? There are plenty of optional PvP games out there, bud. Try WoW.
IntegralHellsing Gallente CRESCENT Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.04 09:31:00 - [7] get a gang of 10 and engage another gang of 10 then. simple. --------------------------------------
Viliny principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.12.04 09:33:00 - [8] in world of warcraft you CAN grief people at levels 10(?), 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 65. And all those levels are like killing a level 10. Heres the difference with eve
Rjaiajik Kajvoril	Posted - 2007.12.04 09:33:00 - [9] What the hell do you think Trinity is you dumb ****? Trinity is specifically adding the Black Ops Battleship and Jump Freighters so people don't have to go through the damn gates. It'll mean people will need to rethink pirating.
Ares Lightfeather Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.04 09:38:00 - [10] Originally by: Rjaiajik Kajvoril What the hell do you think Trinity is you dumb ****? Trinity is specifically adding the Black Ops Battleship and Jump Freighters so people don't have to go through the damn gates. It'll mean people will need to rethink pirating. Don't say it !!! The usual carebear, errr ganker pirate forum troll still didn't understand that it's possible to bypass any gatecamp now. Don't tell them, they might start to whine about it ! -- random eve-related content --

Kurogauna	Posted - 2007.12.04 09:39:00 - [11] Do you want sportive pvp ? Play First person shooters or guild wars. Eve pvp is not sportlike, it is warlike. I am sorry you have been ambushed. - Real men tank hull.
N1fty Amarr Galactic Shipyards Inc HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2007.12.04 09:40:00 - [12] Aaaaaand (say it with me guys) go back to WoW. Darwinism wins again! á ============================================
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.04 09:40:00 - [13] Why can't we all just be friends and not fight each other
N1fty Amarr Galactic Shipyards Inc HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2007.12.04 09:41:00 - [14] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Why can't we all just be friends and not fight each other Thats what the dev's were trying to tell us at fanfest á ============================================
Sathynos Caldari Moronic Confluence	Posted - 2007.12.04 09:44:00 - [15] I'm sorry you got ganked again. Um, actually I'm not. Thank you for reminding, I didn't gank anyone this week yet. -- "Say yes to pron on Concord billboards" campaing. Eve mercenaries portal: http://www.eve-mercs.com
Kazuma Saruwatari	Posted - 2007.12.04 09:45:00 - [16] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Why can't we all just be friends and not fight each other We really need Oveur saying this sound-clipped to the forums. - Odd Pod Out, a blog of EVE Online
Maximillian Power Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.12.04 09:46:00 - [17] Originally by: Karlemgne Can I have your stuff? There are plenty of optional PvP games out there, bud. Yes - but not with internet spaceships :)
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2007.12.04 10:11:00 - [18] I take your attention to these sigs made by Crumplecorm: and also in case you're quitting --- planetary interaction idea!
Chloey Rans	Posted - 2007.12.04 10:20:00 - [19] EvE is this, Eve is that. Wonder where you all know this from? The way Eve is played is just according to a set of rules the Devs give us. And the Devs didn't give us weapons of mass destruction. If there would be a nuclear torpedo in EvE, blobs at gates would not exist. In 0.0 there are just a lot of anarchist running around who like to pawn others. no roleplay.
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.12.04 10:37:00 - [20] Originally by: Buyerr I am so sick and tired of the so called pvp. Ganked 10V1 is NOT PVP. Killing a defenceless ship is NOT pvp! It have around the same pvp element as me jumping some one from behind with a baseball bat and celling it a ôfightö afterwards. You gotta change the lame and extremely stupid way gates and pvp works. Or you will end up with nothing but gankers! I am so sick and tired of getting ganked and I am so sick and tired of having to gank. There is freaking more pvp and tactic in freaking WORLD OF WARCRAFT. How big do you think that game would be if lvl 70 could stand around killing lvl 5Æs all day?! (which is kind of the same odds when ganking some one). Get your head out of you buttholes and do some work on the pvp section of the game so pvp will Actually become pvp and not just a freaking gang-***of some oneà Sigh FFS.. canÆt be that freaking hard.. Could I have had your stuff if you hadn't lost it? -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.**

XrayZ Euphoria Foundation	Posted - 2007.12.04 10:40:00 - [21] Originally by: Grimpak this... can i have it? --------------------------------------
Selene Arlath	Posted - 2007.12.04 10:45:00 - [22] Eve is split up in high sec and low sec for a reason. High-sec is safe, but the rewards are less. Low-sec/0.0 is not safe, but the rewards are greater. All MMO's are about risk vs reward. Eve is no different. You want that high priced ore to refine into profitable space ship and module production? You either a) take the risk by going to low sec, and reap the reward, or you b) buy it in high sec, at higher cost, for less reward. Your choice. There is no secret that if you go to low-sec, there is a very distinct possibility that someone might ransom you, blow up your ship, steal your modules or your ore and puncture your pod. You get a warning before you jump to low-sec. You, and noone else, clicks on OK to jump instead of cancel when you get that warning, and thus YOU accept the risk that your ship, cargo and pod might get blown up. If you want to be safe(er) in low-sec, hire some escorts, go with some corp members, scout out the systems first in a shuttle before you bring in the cargoship or mining barge. True, PvP can sometimes be ganking... but 10v1 ? That sounds to me like someone is trying to be a greedy soloist, instead of playing the game, as most MMO's are meant to be played, together with other people. Do you go into some high-end raiding instance alone in World of Warcraft? Yes the rewards are awesome, but you know you'll get smothered. So you bring a group, or even a raid. How does that relate to Eve? Low-sec is your "raid place" if you want to mine or rat. You go alone, the chance of getting pummeled is pretty high... so guess what? You bring a group (gang) or a raid (mining op). Getting killed while flying around solo is never going to stop. Accept it and move on, noone is to blame but yourself. If you can't deal with the game the way the dev's designed it, and by following the rules that the game has lined out, well... then this isn't the game for you. I don't keep playing an FPS game if I hate the fact that everyone uses guns instead of swords like I'm used to in an MMO
Sinder Ohm Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2007.12.04 10:58:00 - [23] Edited by: Sinder Ohm on 04/12/2007 10:58:23 Ganking people like you makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.12.04 11:01:00 - [24] Originally by: Buyerr I am so sick and tired of the so called pvp. Ganked 10V1 is NOT PVP. Killing a defenceless ship is NOT pvp! It have around the same pvp element as me jumping some one from behind with a baseball bat and celling it a ôfightö afterwards. You gotta change the lame and extremely stupid way gates and pvp works. Or you will end up with nothing but gankers! I am so sick and tired of getting ganked and I am so sick and tired of having to gank. There is freaking more pvp and tactic in freaking WORLD OF WARCRAFT. How big do you think that game would be if lvl 70 could stand around killing lvl 5Æs all day?! (which is kind of the same odds when ganking some one). Get your head out of you buttholes and do some work on the pvp section of the game so pvp will Actually become pvp and not just a freaking gang-*****of some oneà Sigh FFS.. canÆt be that freaking hard.. All you do is whine. Whine about being blobbed, whine about nano-ships, whine, in fact, about everything. Killing a defenceless ships is piracy. It makes money. In the words of a pirate in Tama, after being asked about using a number of BS to gank passing haulers: "Well, MY pos is always fueled." Gates work the way they work: they're the only way to actually kill people who are just passing through, and unless you're utterly incompetent, you can evade / pass through gatecamps relatively easily. The last time I was caught at a gate was by Veto about a month and something ago, and it only happened because they know their business and I was in a BC (and they had an interceptor, which you can use against pirates). WoW you speak of, a level 70 can gank about 500 level 5s all day long, in fact, so your perspective is completely flawed. You don't have to gank or be ganked. You can fly small ships solo or in small groups and pick your fights and have a lot of fun, profit and the only real requirement is intelligence what and when to strike. The fact you are lousy at PvP (and choosing your fights and blob evasion is a essential part of PvP) doesn't make PvP suck. It makes you suck ;) Rifters!
The Snowman Gallente Four Rings Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.04 11:04:00 - [25] The truth is, the only reason why your ganked is probably because that large gang have formed together to go have fun, if they dont come across a worthy advesry then picking off the juicy noobs goes some way to having a bit of a laugh.. If you cant beat em, join em!
Korad Konstentyn The Genyosha Society PURGE.	Posted - 2007.12.04 11:05:00 - [26] Eve is not a Dojo Eve is not a tournament Eve is Warfare
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.04 11:12:00 - [27] The EvE roleplayers society would like to take this chance to thank the OP for his immersive and convincing characterisation of a victim. We take our hats off to you, and your ability to so completely master that role; you have certainly raised the bar as to what is to be expected from others who take on that part. Well done sir, well done. Eve-Online: The Text Adventure
Buyerr	Posted - 2007.12.04 11:13:00 - [28] Edited by: Buyerr on 04/12/2007 11:13:05 Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker Im going to try to be reasonable toward you. Most likely I will be the only one who aint going to ask for your stuff and point you toward WoW.. A special thing about EVE is the non-consentual PvP. You are free to do whatever you want to, even in Highsec, just as long you can take the beating by concord and loss of sec status. Most players dont want this to change. It is after all what makes eve special! I reccomend joining a empire corp or staying in a NPC corp. Many consider the last thing lame, but its a valid option, and its your choice. Its up to you in other words. ' The price to stay safe is less options. Low sec and deep space will not really be available if you want to avoid PvP. There are however lots of things to do in Empire. Mining and missioning. And you can have just as much fun as they who are in dee space, without having to worry too much about podding. Just beware to not beg to be podded by flying very valuable stuffs around unprotected. Empire is safer - not safe! Last thing ill help you with is to donate a flame suit for you. You WILL need it! Good luck! i am in a 0.0 alliance ;) so it is not the problem and i don't care about losing isk and ships, and i don't care about having to use scout or if you can highsec gank, and low sec piratecy. i think it is all a good thing, what i think i REALLY bad is the LACK of any pvp, which is the reason i am writing this, unless you want to lose ship upon ship without gaining anything then you will have to do the gank, scout use 10 hours for each succesfull pvp hit. what i am talking about is to fix the fact that 99% (random high number) of the pvp you will see will be really unfair fights, that have nothing really to do with pvp and more to do with a gang-raping of some others... so i know all about how you do successful pvp, but the fact is still that the pvp in eve as it is now is one big ganking and in between hours upon hours of waiting, it have more to do with who have the most patients and can sit there looking at the screen for hours upon hours without doing anything but waiting, then it is about who have the best skills or ships for that matter ^^. hehe i don't need a flame suit but thank you very much ^^
Nianda SeCann	Posted - 2007.12.04 11:17:00 - [29] Originally by: Mark Lucius [ ]Use scouts. [ ]Don't fly alone. [ ]Get your friends. [x]Waaah waaah. wow 10 words and no spelling mistakes, must be a 1st for your level of intellect. Let me guess you'll only fly in a 10 man gang, so PvP againest 1 is OK for YOU? Nevermind, but seriously the age level for EVE is supposed to be higher than yer normal arcade junkie and yet the most constructive answer you can come up with this!! The OP has a point, don't lower yerself to the bottom of the pond to reply, use that gray matter between yer ears
Sorted Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2007.12.04 11:17:00 - [30] PVP means player vs player. So yes, 10 players vs 1 is PVP. No where did it say PVP had to be fair. If you wanted the same skills, in the same ships played by equaly skilled pilots it would come down to chance wouldnt it. Then it would be "waaaa waaaaa I may as well just flip a coin" Somewere, wether its 10 v 1 or 45m SP pilot vs 5 m SP pilot, or BS vs frig etc its gonna get unfair. Thats eve, deal with it. Lifes unfair, get some skills and some mates and watch local/yourback/thenextlocal and you'll fix your "I just got Ganked/i got away/I Won ratio. Pick your fights.

Duke Phobos	Posted - 2007.12.04 11:22:00 - [31] Edited by: Duke Phobos on 04/12/2007 11:22:47 You posted with your alt... I will post with mine. You got destroyed trying to leave 0.0 through M-O... in the middle of a war zone, with a large gate camp in your way. You used an Ibis... You never scanned to see the Large Warp Disrupt bubble, and you tried smacking in local for someone to pvp you 1v1 at the moon of your choice. You sir have failed in such an epic manner. Go home
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.04 11:22:00 - [32] Originally by: Nianda SeCann wow 10 words and no spelling mistakes, must be a 1st for your level of intellect ... againest ... ... use that gray matter between yer ears Ouch. Eve-Online: The Text Adventure
Groes Thir Gallente Karjala Inc. Onnenpyora	Posted - 2007.12.04 11:34:00 - [33] This thread has delivered. I would like to thank all participants for this comedy.
Sister Impotentata Elite Angels Of Death	Posted - 2007.12.04 11:34:00 - [34] Originally by: Buyerr How big do you think that game would be if lvl 70 could stand around killing lvl 5Æs all day?! (which is kind of the same odds when ganking some one). WoW might almost be interesting then. Just keep in mind that in EVE, there are lvl 70s who make it their business to kill the 70s that are killing the 5s. ----- TANSTAAFL Originally by: Psycho John Petrucci If there's any point where you feel it's too difficult, then just stop. Because you just, you don't have it, you're just not good.
Malcanis High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.04 11:36:00 - [35] Originally by: NTRabbit Originally by: Buyerr I am so sick and tired of the so called pvp. Ganked 10V1 is NOT PVP. Killing a defenceless ship is NOT pvp! It have around the same pvp element as me jumping some one from behind with a baseball bat and celling it a ôfightö afterwards. Why not? It's the safest way, isn't it? Sounds pretty good to me. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.04 11:37:00 - [36] Originally by: Sister Impotentata Originally by: Buyerr How big do you think that game would be if lvl 70 could stand around killing lvl 5Æs all day?! (which is kind of the same odds when ganking some one). WoW might almost be interesting then. Just keep in mind that in EVE, there are lvl 70s who make it their business to kill the 70s that are killing the 5s. And now and then, whines by the 70s that the 5s can kill them... cough DBPreachercough* CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Buyerr	Posted - 2007.12.04 11:40:00 - [37] Originally by: Sorted PVP means player vs player. So yes, 10 players vs 1 is PVP. No where did it say PVP had to be fair. If you wanted the same skills, in the same ships played by equaly skilled pilots it would come down to chance wouldnt it. Then it would be "waaaa waaaaa I may as well just flip a coin" Somewhere, whether its 10 v 1 or 45m SP pilot vs 5 m SP pilot, or BS vs frig etc its gonna get unfair. Thats eve, deal with it. Lifes unfair, get some skills and some mates and watch local/yourback/thenextlocal and you'll fix your "I just got Ganked/i got away/I Won ratio. Pick your fights. soo basically what your saying is CS is flipping a coin ?! WTF O.o .... no eve don't have much RL skills involved, and then again it have a hell of a lot macro management, and back knowledge about game mechanic, and the person who is the best at this will have a VERY high chance of winning any fair battle. but no matter who the hell you are, you stand no chance in hell against a 10 man gang at a gate with a bobble. and it ain't even fun, and they/you normally don't even pick up your wrack, the only reason they/you kill you in most chases is for the killmail, and because you/they can and there is no other kind of pvp to have fun with.. you still stand a chance in a frig 5mill sp, against a 45mill bs pilot, if the bs pilot is a lousy pvp and the frig rocks at it, then you do against a gang of 10. and as soon as you get over 10-15mill sp the sp doesn't matter that much (it is a 5% or so increase we are talking about in most areas). and why is it when you point out something that every one says your a noob or suspect you of having under 10m sp ?! O.o.... i never asked for freaking advice on HOW to pvp, i freaking know how to do it, i am just pointing out there it needs a serious change, since there is so many wholes in the system as it is now.
Malcanis High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.04 11:42:00 - [38] "no eve don't have much RL skills involved," And yet you always get pwned and my haulers never do.... Pure luck, I suppose. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Buyerr	Posted - 2007.12.04 11:42:00 - [39] Edited by: Buyerr on 04/12/2007 11:44:24 Originally by: Duke Phobos Edited by: Duke Phobos on 04/12/2007 11:22:47 You posted with your alt... I will post with mine. You got destroyed trying to leave 0.0 through M-O... in the middle of a war zone, with a large gate camp in your way. You used an Ibis... You never scanned to see the Large Warp Disrupt bubble, and you tried smacking in local for someone to pvp you 1v1 at the moon of your choice. You sir have failed in such an epic manner. Go home wtf are you talking about, NO i didn't get destroyed, i was bored at a gatecamp when i got so annoyed that i have to write this so STFU pls will you! Originally by: Malcanis "no eve don't have much RL skills involved," And yet you always get pwned and my haulers never do.... Pure luck, I suppose. sigh you got to be kidding me... to believe that some one can be soo stupid?! where did i say i got pwned or don't know how to move around?!... sigh... what arrogance...
Demarcus Killjoy.	Posted - 2007.12.04 11:44:00 - [40] Originally by: Buyerr I am so sick and tired of the so called pvp. Ganked 10V1 is NOT PVP. Killing a defenceless ship is NOT pvp! It have around the same pvp element as me jumping some one from behind with a baseball bat and celling it a ôfightö afterwards. You gotta change the lame and extremely stupid way gates and pvp works. Or you will end up with nothing but gankers! I am so sick and tired of getting ganked and I am so sick and tired of having to gank. There is freaking more pvp and tactic in freaking WORLD OF WARCRAFT. How big do you think that game would be if lvl 70 could stand around killing lvl 5Æs all day?! (which is kind of the same odds when ganking some one). Get your head out of you buttholes and do some work on the pvp section of the game so pvp will Actually become pvp and not just a freaking gang-*****of some oneà Sigh FFS.. canÆt be that freaking hard.. Thats exactly what happens in WoW. And all those things you said aren't PvP most certainly are. ------------------------------------- You are all worthless, and weak.

Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.12.04 11:45:00 - [41] Originally by: Nianda SeCann Originally by: Mark Lucius [ ]Use scouts. [ ]Don't fly alone. [ ]Get your friends. [x]Waaah waaah. wow 10 words and no spelling mistakes, must be a 1st for your level of intellect. Let me guess you'll only fly in a 10 man gang, so PvP againest 1 is OK for YOU? Nevermind, but seriously the age level for EVE is supposed to be higher than yer normal arcade junkie and yet the most constructive answer you can come up with this!! The OP has a point, don't lower yerself to the bottom of the pond to reply, use that gray matter between yer ears Bad spelling underlined (you did comment on it, so enjoy), italics are for bad sentence construction. The OP fails to have a point, at any rate. If it's a war, then a war is meant to be unconsensual and unfair by definition. If it's piracy, you're meant to pick fights you can win or you're a bad pirate. What the OP wants is fair fights: well they can be found now and then, but most often, this won't be an option. I do a fair bit of my pirate work solo in a frig in low-sec, so I get a number of solo fights - however, at least half of the time I'll roll with a wingman or two to attack bigger things in. My targets sometimes do the same, though. Rifters!
Demarcus Killjoy.	Posted - 2007.12.04 11:47:00 - [42] Originally by: Nianda SeCann Originally by: Mark Lucius [ ]Use scouts. [ ]Don't fly alone. [ ]Get your friends. [x]Waaah waaah. wow 10 words and no spelling mistakes, must be a 1st for your level of intellect. Let me guess you'll only fly in a 10 man gang, so PvP againest 1 is OK for YOU? Nevermind, but seriously the age level for EVE is supposed to be higher than yer normal arcade junkie and yet the most constructive answer you can come up with this!! The OP has a point, don't lower yerself to the bottom of the pond to reply, use that gray matter between yer ears The only point the OP has is that he fails at EvE period. ------------------------------------- You are all worthless, and weak.
Malcanis High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.04 11:47:00 - [43] Originally by: Buyerr Edited by: Buyerr on 04/12/2007 11:44:24 Originally by: Duke Phobos Edited by: Duke Phobos on 04/12/2007 11:22:47 You posted with your alt... I will post with mine. You got destroyed trying to leave 0.0 through M-O... in the middle of a war zone, with a large gate camp in your way. You used an Ibis... You never scanned to see the Large Warp Disrupt bubble, and you tried smacking in local for someone to pvp you 1v1 at the moon of your choice. You sir have failed in such an epic manner. Go home wtf are you talking about, NO i didn't get destroyed, i was bored at a gatecamp when i got so annoyed that i have to write this so STFU pls will you! Originally by: Malcanis "no eve don't have much RL skills involved," And yet you always get pwned and my haulers never do.... Pure luck, I suppose. sigh you got to be kidding me... to believe that some one can be soo stupid?! where did i say i got pwned or don't know how to move around?!... sigh... what arrogance... Is it arrogance to know that I'm completely right and you're completely wrong? If so: guilty! CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Sister Impotentata Elite Angels Of Death	Posted - 2007.12.04 11:52:00 - [44] Originally by: Buyerr no eve don't have much RL skills involved, and then again it have a hell of a lot macro management, and back knowledge about game mechanic, and the person who is the best at this will have a VERY high chance of winning any fair battle. Those are real world skills. Skills that lead to more real world success than a good twitch reflex. Actually I think you've shown you don't know how to pvp. But hey, neither do I. So I learned how to avoid it at my young age, until I have more of a fighting chance. It doesn't bother me that I would get pwnd by just about anyone, both because of my lack of game-sp, and my lack of RL knowledge about what can happen in pvp. Both are increasing, though, and someday I will be doing pwning. Hopefully unfairly. ----- TANSTAAFL Originally by: Psycho John Petrucci If there's any point where you feel it's too difficult, then just stop. Because you just, you don't have it, you're just not good.
Kryss Darkdust	Posted - 2007.12.04 11:54:00 - [45] Edited by: Kryss Darkdust on 04/12/2007 11:55:16 There is always a lot of debate about what PvP is and isn't and how it should or shouldn't be in Eve, but the bottom line is that the game is successful the way it is and that means people like it the way it is. While I sympathize with you, you are looking for a solution that is already there for you, its just that you have failed to take advantage of it. Your right it does suck to get ganked by a mob squad with little recourse but to die in a blaze of glory, but hoping you don't take this personaly, whining on the forums about it isn't going to garner you any respect or sympathy from most. The bottom line is that if your getting ganked 10 to 1 you did something wrong and not the other way around. If your in 0.0 most likely your trespassing on someones territory which they have every right to defend. If you got poped in low sec you failed to heed the warning of what being in low sec means, after all, even a newbie knows better then to zip around in Asteroid fields in low sec. Finaly if you died while your corp was at war, flying alone was your first mistake. Its quite easy to avoid getting ganked, but your obviously the type of player that takes risks by going into 0.0, ratting, doing low sec missions, mining or whatever the case may be and while I applaud that you have balls to do it (many people don't), when you take risks and garner the rewards, you can't come here and complain that things didn't work out and the 'game' should be fixed just because you got poped in the process. The game is fine, you need to fix your tactics, plain and simple. Are you are gamer? www.playhardliveeasy.blogspot.com
Sister Impotentata Elite Angels Of Death	Posted - 2007.12.04 11:58:00 - [46] Instructional Video. Guaranteed EVE related content. ----- TANSTAAFL Originally by: Psycho John Petrucci If there's any point where you feel it's too difficult, then just stop. Because you just, you don't have it, you're just not good.
Kryss Darkdust	Posted - 2007.12.04 12:03:00 - [47] Originally by: Sister Impotentata Instructional Video. Guaranteed EVE related content. I don't know if I'm having a drug related flashback or what, but that may be the funniest thing i've seen for a solid month.... 'your ****, sellyour guitar on ebay lol" .. classic. Are you are gamer? www.playhardliveeasy.blogspot.com
Buyerr	Posted - 2007.12.04 12:06:00 - [48] Originally by: Kryss Darkdust Edited by: Kryss Darkdust on 04/12/2007 11:55:16 There is always a lot of debate about what PvP is and isn't and how it should or shouldn't be in Eve, but the bottom line is that the game is successful the way it is and that means people like it the way it is. While I sympathize with you, you are looking for a solution that is already there for you, its just that you have failed to take advantage of it. Your right it does suck to get ganked by a mob squad with little recourse but to die in a blaze of glory, but hoping you don't take this personaly, whining on the forums about it isn't going to garner you any respect or sympathy from most. The bottom line is that if your getting ganked 10 to 1 you did something wrong and not the other way around. If your in 0.0 most likely your trespassing on someones territory which they have every right to defend. If you got poped in low sec you failed to heed the warning of what being in low sec means, after all, even a newbie knows better then to zip around in Asteroid fields in low sec. Finaly if you died while your corp was at war, flying alone was your first mistake. Its quite easy to avoid getting ganked, but your obviously the type of player that takes risks by going into 0.0, ratting, doing low sec missions, mining or whatever the case may be and while I applaud that you have balls to do it (many people don't), when you take risks and garner the rewards, you can't come here and complain that things didn't work out and the 'game' should be fixed just because you got poped in the process. The game is fine, you need to fix your tactics, plain and simple. sigh.. thanks for the nice words.. although the main problem is not if i do or do not get killed... here is a example, at big ops we bring every one even the miners that barely have the skills to use a frigate with turrets, every one need to be at the gate.. why?!? because in eve numbers counts for everything, if you can outgank the others you don't have to worry about anything else... THAT is where eve fail miserably, numbers shouldn't be the most impotent thing. we have been a mini fleet of badgers taking out a vegabond, we have seen swarms of frigates multi pawning fleets of bs's, why?! simply the amount of people, sp/RL skills/ship types, count for nothing if you have or don't have a big to enormous blob of people... (often sitting at a gate somewhere just waiting and waiting and waiting some more until at some point the other part get tired and leave or jump though right at a specific static spot)
Drasked North Face Force	Posted - 2007.12.04 12:10:00 - [49] Originally by: Buyerr Edited by: Buyerr on 04/12/2007 11:13:05 i am in a 0.0 alliance ;) so it is not the problem and i don't care about losing isk and ships, and i don't care about having to use scout or if you can highsec gank, and low sec piratecy. i think it is all a good thing, what i think i REALLY bad is the LACK of any pvp, which is the reason i am writing this, unless you want to lose ship upon ship without gaining anything then you will have to do the gank, scout use 10 hours for each succesfull pvp hit. what i am talking about is to fix the fact that 99% (random high number) of the pvp you will see will be really unfair fights, that have nothing really to do with pvp and more to do with a gang-raping of some others... so i know all about how you do successful pvp, but the fact is still that the pvp in eve as it is now is one big ganking and in between hours upon hours of waiting, it have more to do with who have the most patients and can sit there looking at the screen for hours upon hours without doing anything but waiting, then it is about who have the best skills or ships for that matter ^^. hehe i don't need a flame suit but thank you very much ^^ Its kind of obvious that you suck majorly at pvp, you state that you are in an alliance and with that think that you are somehow making your whine legit, proves even more that your just a mindless follower of some FC. Your stating you have problems finding pvp, and that you have to lose ship upon ship to find pvp and that it normally takes 10 hours of gameplay for you to find pvp, this again proves the ammount of suck at pvp. Also your stating that 99% of the fights in eve are unfair, this is the direct result of the victim sucking at pvp. In the end you claim that you know all about succesfull pvp, wich gets kind of killed by everything you wrote. And as a closing statement you give a brief discription of what pvp is for you; "but the fact is still that the pvp in eve as it is now is one big ganking and in between hours upon hours of waiting, it have more to do with who have the most patients and can sit there looking at the screen for hours upon hours without doing anything but waiting, then it is about who have the best skills or ships for that matter" This last statement again proves that your a mindless follower when it comes to pvp and that you have no actual understanding of pvp other then "primairy target xyz" "align xyz" "f1, f2, f3, etc"
Dravin Dread	Posted - 2007.12.04 12:11:00 - [50] It's sad that the point of the OP has to be lost to chest beating. Eve should be more than laggy gank blobs online.

Sister Impotentata Elite Angels Of Death	Posted - 2007.12.04 12:14:00 - [51] Originally by: Buyerr THAT is where eve fail miserably, numbers shouldn't be the most impotent thing. I might initially be tempted to agree with you. But you need to understand that blob is not a game mechanic. It's a universal fact. It transcends game mechanics. See: cannon fodder, DoS, protest rally. ----- TANSTAAFL Originally by: Psycho John Petrucci If there's any point where you feel it's too difficult, then just stop. Because you just, you don't have it, you're just not good.
000Hunter000 Gallente Magners Marauders	Posted - 2007.12.04 12:18:00 - [52] Well like it or not this is how it is in EVE. if u can't win, just bring a bigger gang. I lolled a while back when someone in an unnamed alliance told me they almost had a fight on their hands but then decided to stay docked, all 200 of them.. the reason.. the enemy outnumbered them.. by ONE... (and yes this was a joke btw, i think they were outnumbered by 50 give or take ) CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!! Magners is now recruiting, evemail me or Dagazbo ingame.
Kyusoath Orillian Northern Intelligence Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.12.04 12:20:00 - [53] when 1- of us sit at a gate in 0.0 and blast to hell the shuttles and t1 frigs that fly thru , every time i do this i think , 'no one is gonna be stupid enough to come thru on there own in a frig or shuttle , no way, no one is that dumb' time and time again i see it happen, i still can't believe how stupid these people are , and i really wish some one would try and break the camp with 10+ bc's or something. but instead its 20+ frigs per day one at a time. absolutely no chance of survival. just damn crazy how these people keep doing it. the gate is camped 23/7 yet people keep trying, on there own. YOU are that guy OP , i will never be that guy .
Nianda SeCann	Posted - 2007.12.04 12:20:00 - [54] Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 04/12/2007 11:47:36 Originally by: Nianda SeCann Originally by: Mark Lucius [ ]Use scouts. [ ]Don't fly alone. [ ]Get your friends. [x]Waaah waaah. wow 10 words and no spelling mistakes, must be a 1st for your level of intellect. Let me guess you'll only fly in a 10 man gang, so PvP againest 1 is OK for YOU? Nevermind, but seriously the age level for EVE is supposed to be higher than yer normal arcade junkie and yet the most constructive answer you can come up with this!! The OP has a point, don't lower yerself to the bottom of the pond to reply, use that gray matter between yer ears Bad spelling underlined (you did comment on it, so enjoy), italics are for bad sentence construction. Damn, picked up on slang . Point taken on againest. My old Teacher will be saying "Told you so" Cpt Branko, I agree with your post and most of the replies here, EVE is a hostile place and fair fights are hard to find, but I wouldn't have EVE anyother way thank you. However I stand by my point of constructing a reply rather than typing a quick "bash them while they're down" style quip
Chrysalis D'lilth	Posted - 2007.12.04 12:24:00 - [55] Wait a minute, i thought stealth bombers put an end to blobbing ???
Whineroy	Posted - 2007.12.04 12:24:00 - [56] OP is right... It is almost funny how doing things like 10:1 gatecamps and running away at first sign of possible danger is called "tactics" and "playing smart", while avoiding said gatecamped system entirely results in endless amount of whines about "stupid carebears who should play WoW if they can't stand PvP" from chest-thumping little ganker nerds. Ah well, can't expect anything else but pure hypocrisy from brats who lack a pair.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.12.04 12:24:00 - [57] Originally by: Dravin Dread It's sad that the point of the OP has to be lost to chest beating. Eve should be more than laggy gank blobs online. But EvE is about warfare in space. In war of any sort, tactics, strategy and equipment, of course, nice, but having double the numbers, logistics and ability to replace your stuff twice over the other guy wins out Originally by: Buyerr although the main problem is not if i do or do not get killed... (my personally main problem(the most known reason i die) is that i don't really have the patients to sit 6 hours at a gate waiting for them to jump though or leave) here is a example, at big ops we bring every one even the miners that barely have the skills to use a frigate with turrets, every one need to be at the gate.. why?!? because in eve numbers counts for everything, if you can outgank the others you don't have to worry about anything else... THAT is where eve fail miserably, numbers shouldn't be the most impotent thing. That's what's beautiful about EvE. Unlike WoW which you cited (where a level 70 character can kill 500 level 5 chars), 500 people will basically always beat that one guy. That is the beautiful part - a 2003 char can't sit at a gate and just wtfpwn everyone because they made their char in 2007. In most other MMOs, this is possible (ofc, in most other MMOs you can't steal people's loot aftewards). The beauty and ultimately realism of EvE is that 100 people will beat two on the head, nomatter how good these two are (and they suck, because they should've known better then to try to fight 100 people). If you don't like gate-camping for hours on end, then don't do it - go to low sec and roam around, for example. There are plenty of options. If you have chosen guard duty and find sitting for 8 hours waiting for something to pop up boring, then it's obviously not for you. It doesn't make in any less necessary or broken, though. Rifters!
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2007.12.04 12:25:00 - [58] Edited by: Danton Marcellus on 04/12/2007 12:28:09 Originally by: IntegralHellsing get a gang of 10 and engage another gang of 10 then. simple. Problem is the other gang of 10 won't engage seeing even numbers and you would've wasted another 9 peoples time. If you somehow can bait them with 3 ships able to tank to hell and back then maybe... Hopefully they'll come up with something along with factional warfare to encourage actual see-saw engagements. Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Drasked North Face Force	Posted - 2007.12.04 12:34:00 - [59] Originally by: Danton Marcellus Edited by: Danton Marcellus on 04/12/2007 12:28:09 Originally by: IntegralHellsing get a gang of 10 and engage another gang of 10 then. simple. Problem is the other gang of 10 won't engage seeing even numbers and you would've wasted another 9 peoples time. If you somehow can bait them with 3 ships able to tank to hell and back then maybe... Hopefully they'll come up with something along with factional warfare to encourage actual see-saw engagements. Your making it sound like baiting peolpe is hard?
Buyerr	Posted - 2007.12.04 12:35:00 - [60] Originally by: Drasked Originally by: Buyerr Edited by: Buyerr on 04/12/2007 11:13:05 Its kind of obvious that you suck majorly at pvp, you state that you are in an alliance and with that think that you are somehow making your whine legit, proves even more that your just a mindless follower of some FC. Your stating you have problems finding pvp, and that you have to lose ship upon ship to find pvp and that it normally takes 10 hours of gameplay for you to find pvp, this again proves the ammount of suck at pvp. Also your stating that 99% of the fights in eve are unfair, this is the direct result of the victim sucking at pvp. In the end you claim that you know all about succesfull pvp, wich gets kind of killed by everything you wrote. And as a closing statement you give a brief discription of what pvp is for you; "but the fact is still that the pvp in eve as it is now is one big ganking and in between hours upon hours of waiting, it have more to do with who have the most patients and can sit there looking at the screen for hours upon hours without doing anything but waiting, then it is about who have the best skills or ships for that matter" This last statement again proves that your a mindless follower when it comes to pvp and that you have no actual understanding of pvp other then "primairy target xyz" "align xyz" "f1, f2, f3, etc" that is so annoying... no i don't state that. so don't but words in my mouth TY. i nearly pointed some facts out because of what people said. i am not saying anything about my whine being more valid because i am in a 0.0 alliance, just that i have tried the things in the game from a to z. i am not saying i have a hard time finding pvp, just saying that if you want to pvp, you better do it in a BIG group, the bigger the better, and trying to do it solo, you better use a freaking nano ship or be rdy to lose a lot of ships doing it (unless using your alt scout of cause). wuu your so smart, ehh you figured all that out?! let me guess it is your psychic powers that told you all that about me, from your wrongly "translated" version of my words?! YOU SO AWESOME loled... Originally by: Sister Impotentata Originally by: Buyerr THAT is where eve fail miserably, numbers shouldn't be the most impotent thing. I might initially be tempted to agree with you. But you need to understand that blob is not a game mechanic. It's a universal fact. It transcends game mechanics. See: cannon fodder, DoS, protest rally. you don't use blob warfare irl if that is what your outpointing, since it will be WAY too easy to destroy. and actually technology as more impotent then numbers in our RL wars... nuclear where our last big invention, which still have major power since every one fears it and with good reason... blob warfare is very ineffective and you will lose a very high amount of people to take out a very low amount by doing it, instead of tactical groups.

Minmatar Citizen 4521577	Posted - 2007.12.04 12:36:00 - [61] Originally by: Kyusoath Orillian Edited by: Kyusoath Orillian on 04/12/2007 12:26:47 when 10 of us sit at a gate in 0.0 and blast to hell the shuttles and t1 frigs that fly thru , every time i do this i think , 'no one is gonna be stupid enough to come thru on there own in a frig or shuttle , no way, no one is that dumb' time and time again i see it happen, i still can't believe how stupid these people are , and i really wish some one would try and break the camp with 10+ bc's or something. but instead its 20+ frigs per day one at a time. absolutely no chance of survival. Yea, cause you obviously don't have a scout one ahead to let you know when to get the **** out of the gate. Right.
Buyerr	Posted - 2007.12.04 12:39:00 - [62] Originally by: Drasked Originally by: Danton Marcellus Edited by: Danton Marcellus on 04/12/2007 12:28:09 Originally by: IntegralHellsing get a gang of 10 and engage another gang of 10 then. simple. Problem is the other gang of 10 won't engage seeing even numbers and you would've wasted another 9 peoples time. If you somehow can bait them with 3 ships able to tank to hell and back then maybe... Hopefully they'll come up with something along with factional warfare to encourage actual see-saw engagements. Your making it sound like baiting peolpe is hard? it can be very hard if not dealing with noobss but once again it all comes down to patient and who have the most time to wasted waiting
Cailais Amarr VITOC	Posted - 2007.12.04 12:42:00 - [63] I have to agree with the general thrust of the OPs argument. Gate Camps have relatively skill involved, and I think its hard to term them 'pvp' in the sense of combat. However I think its important that 'pvp' begins before you leave station, where you intend to go and in what ship. Gate Camping is more akin to mining, than say a roaming fleet/gang. Its pretty static and not particularly exciting - however it can be very profitable. Id like to see more "travel" options within Eve as a whole, secret gates that link the current systems in a differing configuration of routes. C. Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Dehumanisation - griefers are cool and if you are not a griefer, you do not belong here.
Katharina Gorbacheva Amarr Soviet Star Federation Celestial Frontier	Posted - 2007.12.04 12:50:00 - [64] Highest lvl is 126, not 70, if you have to compare then at least get it right!
iiOs	Posted - 2007.12.04 12:52:00 - [65] ALERT
Maximillian Power Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.12.04 12:54:00 - [66] Originally by: Chrysalis D'lilth Wait a minute, i thought stealth bombers put an end to blobbing ??? brilliant
Drasked North Face Force	Posted - 2007.12.04 12:56:00 - [67] Originally by: Buyerr Originally by: Drasked Originally by: Danton Marcellus Edited by: Danton Marcellus on 04/12/2007 12:28:09 Originally by: IntegralHellsing get a gang of 10 and engage another gang of 10 then. simple. Problem is the other gang of 10 won't engage seeing even numbers and you would've wasted another 9 peoples time. If you somehow can bait them with 3 ships able to tank to hell and back then maybe... Hopefully they'll come up with something along with factional warfare to encourage actual see-saw engagements. Your making it sound like baiting peolpe is hard? it can be very hard if not dealing with noobss but once again it all comes down to patient and who have the most time to wasted waiting It can be verry hard if your noob, indeed. And from everything you wrote in this thread i can tell your epic fail at pvp, your mistaking your attpemts at pvp for actual pvp.
Raneru Darwin With Attitude oooh Shiny	Posted - 2007.12.04 13:01:00 - [68] Originally by: Chloey Rans EvE is this, Eve is that. Wonder where you all know this from? The way Eve is played is just according to a set of rules the Devs give us. And the Devs didn't give us weapons of mass destruction. If there would be a nuclear torpedo in EvE, blobs at gates would not exist. Huh? Doomsday Devices, Bombs and the poor mans DD exist.
kurg Amarr Science Production And NuKing Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.04 13:12:00 - [69] Originally by: Buyerr I am so sick and tired of the so called pvp. Ganked 10V1 is NOT PVP. Killing a defenceless ship is NOT pvp! It have around the same pvp element as me jumping some one from behind with a baseball bat and celling it a ôfightö afterwards. You gotta change the lame and extremely stupid way gates and pvp works. Or you will end up with nothing but gankers! I am so sick and tired of getting ganked and I am so sick and tired of having to gank. There is freaking more pvp and tactic in freaking WORLD OF WARCRAFT. How big do you think that game would be if lvl 70 could stand around killing lvl 5Æs all day?! (which is kind of the same odds when ganking some one). Get your head out of you buttholes and do some work on the pvp section of the game so pvp will Actually become pvp and not just a freaking gang-*****of some oneà Sigh FFS.. canÆt be that freaking hard.. I hear you, i know what you mean and its even worse for new players that end up with missions which take them thru low-sec systems for cargo missions. What i find even more comical is the fact that even if it took 10+ people to kill 1 single shuttle they still call it "a fight" and post the killmail as if they accomplished something great!. The problem isnt gankers, the problem is the core mechanics of PvP in eve, the loss is too harsh, so no one wants to lose. and Unless they know they will NOT lose then the next best option is to be in a large group which will most likely ensure they will not lose hence PvP in Eve the bigger the blob the higher the chance you have to win and not lose. Its that simple, no real tactics no real skill except a roll of dice in hopes of having a fitting thats better then the opponent OR simply out number your opponent so its overwelming, again no real skill or tactics. Its abit sad and most Eve fanboys will never admit to this and post "it take skill to pvp" yeah ok... sure
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Military Industrial Research	Posted - 2007.12.04 13:23:00 - [70] I wish people like the OP weren't playing this great game with me.

Rakshasa Taisab Caldari Sane Industries Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.04 13:30:00 - [71] I collect stuff in 0.0 and move it to empire. PvP for me means making sure I don't get ganked and lose hundreds of millions in isk. It's PvP by my definition, and I _enjoy_ it. When I get ganked it wasn't a fair fight, and most likely I got unlucky or did something stupid.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.12.04 13:31:00 - [72] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 04/12/2007 13:36:28 Originally by: kurg Its that simple, no real tactics no real skill except a roll of dice in hopes of having a fitting thats better then the opponent OR simply out number your opponent so its overwelming, again no real skill or tactics ... is why you need to outblob to win. I mean, seriously. You can't get a fair fight? Boo-hoo. People who are after your stuff might not care about fair. Don't want to play the 0.0 game? Go to low-sec, groups are typically smaller there. Want fair 1v1s? Well, make contests in high-sec like Curzon does, or something. Claiming that PvP is no skill and just numbers and roll of the dice reminds me of how some people actually fight. Nothing like beating people who think that way in a 5v2 fight and scooping their loot ;) Rifters!
Skjorta	Posted - 2007.12.04 13:38:00 - [73] Uh oh, somebody got popped. I'm pretty sure that tactic is used irl too, not just WOW. "omg, 10 ships can take on my one? no ******* way" Sorry, it's hard not to troll this post.
kurg Amarr Science Production And NuKing Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.04 14:03:00 - [74] Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 04/12/2007 13:36:28 Originally by: kurg Its that simple, no real tactics no real skill except a roll of dice in hopes of having a fitting thats better then the opponent OR simply out number your opponent so its overwelming, again no real skill or tactics ... is why you need to outblob to win. I mean, seriously. You can't get a fair fight? Boo-hoo. People who are after your stuff might not care about fair. Don't want to play the 0.0 game? Go to low-sec, groups are typically smaller there. Want fair 1v1s? Well, make contests in high-sec like Curzon does, or something. Claiming that PvP is no skill and just numbers and roll of the dice reminds me of how some people actually fight. Nothing like beating people who think that way in a 5v2 fight and scooping their loot ;) Need i say more PS. Thanks for making my point!
ry ry StateCorp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.12.04 14:05:00 - [75] Originally by: Buyerr I am so sick and tired of the so called pvp. Ganked 10V1 is NOT PVP. Killing a defenceless ship is NOT pvp! It have around the same pvp element as me jumping some one from behind with a baseball bat and celling it a ôfightö afterwards. You gotta change the lame and extremely stupid way gates and pvp works. Or you will end up with nothing but gankers! I am so sick and tired of getting ganked and I am so sick and tired of having to gank. There is freaking more pvp and tactic in freaking WORLD OF WARCRAFT. How big do you think that game would be if lvl 70 could stand around killing lvl 5Æs all day?! (which is kind of the same odds when ganking some one). Get your head out of you buttholes and do some work on the pvp section of the game so pvp will Actually become pvp and not just a freaking gang-*****of some oneà Sigh FFS.. canÆt be that freaking hard.. freaking much? Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Cyrilis	Posted - 2007.12.04 14:27:00 - [76] In reality the problem is EVE is too real. I would assume you live ina nice safe place where nothing really bad ever happens. In places like Darfur where roving gangs can kill at will with impunity bad things happen. Without people banding together to form govenments to protect thier own intrests: safety, security a way to address grievences withtout violence. Bad things can and will happen. When you leave the heavly protected space you need to be prepared for the worst.
Buyerr	Posted - 2007.12.04 14:38:00 - [77] Originally by: Cyrilis In reality the problem is EVE is too real. I would assume you live ina nice safe place where nothing really bad ever happens. In places like Darfur where roving gangs can kill at will with impunity bad things happen. Without people banding together to form govenments to protect thier own intrests: safety, security a way to address grievences withtout violence. Bad things can and will happen. When you leave the heavly protected space you need to be prepared for the worst. yup, but this is a game not RL, if i wanted the real **** and annoying element of RL i would just go out the door and not use time in a game ;) althought that is not completely true, since in real life some rules are made really fast and even in the worst countries there are some unwritten roles since you can't just get a clone when you die... which let people do whatever without any consequence... although the main thing with this tread is not that it is too harsh (i have no problem with that), but that pvp is as it is.
Haniblecter Teg F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2007.12.04 14:41:00 - [78] My 12 man gang took on at least 30 actives in a 70 count local. Bring friends and have no fear...cheaper ships helps too. ----------------- Friends Forever
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Military Industrial Research	Posted - 2007.12.04 14:42:00 - [79] Have you considered the idea that maybe this game works fine but just isn't the right game for you?
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.12.04 14:42:00 - [80] Gatecamps, deadspace ganks, being gangf*cked in belts. Welcome to the life of a soloist in lowsec and 0.0. The moment you undock alone in a freefire zone, you're a guppy in a pool full of pirahna. Working in 0.0 isn't about glory, its about survival. The first casualty of survival is pride. Just because you can undock in 0.0 doesn't entitle you to be there unbothered. You earn the right through your guns or your brains. You either fight your way through, or you slip your way through. VERY very few alliances will give you a free pass, and those that do, you treat like gold.

Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2007.12.04 14:52:00 - [81] Originally by: Janu Hull Gatecamps, deadspace ganks, being gangf*cked in belts. Welcome to the life of a soloist in lowsec and 0.0. The moment you undock alone in a freefire zone, you're a guppy in a pool full of pirahna. Working in 0.0 isn't about glory, its about survival. The first casualty of survival is pride. Just because you can undock in 0.0 doesn't entitle you to be there unbothered. You earn the right through your guns or your brains. You either fight your way through, or you slip your way through. VERY very few alliances will give you a free pass, and those that do, you treat like gold. there you have it. I've been playing since 2003, running missions in low-sec since 2004. number of ships lost during missions in low-sec: 5. it's just a matter of losing your pride and think about survival first. Pride kills, gentleman. Pride kills. --- planetary interaction idea!
Commander Prishe Caldari The LoneStar Corp Edge Of Sanity	Posted - 2007.12.04 15:03:00 - [82] Originally by: Buyerr I am so sick and tired of the so called pvp. Ganked 10V1 is NOT PVP. Killing a defenceless ship is NOT pvp! It have around the same pvp element as me jumping some one from behind with a baseball bat and celling it a ôfightö afterwards. You gotta change the lame and extremely stupid way gates and pvp works. Or you will end up with nothing but gankers! I am so sick and tired of getting ganked and I am so sick and tired of having to gank. There is freaking more pvp and tactic in freaking WORLD OF WARCRAFT. How big do you think that game would be if lvl 70 could stand around killing lvl 5Æs all day?! (which is kind of the same odds when ganking some one). Get your head out of you buttholes and do some work on the pvp section of the game so pvp will Actually become pvp and not just a freaking gang-***of some oneà Sigh FFS.. canÆt be that freaking hard.. You hit the nail on the head there. This is the exact reason 80% of EVE players dont leave high sec. Who the ** wants to get ganked by 10 ships lol. The reality is most mmo players prefer to play solo with the occasional group (gang) play, this is mainly due to not having the time to group up for long periods, and im afraid solo fair pvp for the average player is almost impossible in EVE.
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.12.04 15:07:00 - [83] Edited by: Janu Hull on 04/12/2007 15:07:24 The other side of scrapping pride is getting used to the occassional explosion and Podkill Express ride. I've lost more Ravens, Drakes and Rokhs than I can remember. Annoying, yes, but then again, I've got a fully kit up Rokh in empire, an efficiently set up Raven in low sec on a 0.0 border, and enough money to put a third ship in space if the spirit moved me. My alt has been set up with two Covetors in 0.0 and a Hulk (in empire, obviously) so he can make some additional money mining. All of this financed by 0.0 ratting in full acceptance of the occassional arsebeating at the hands of the local wolfpacks. Thankfully, I survive more than I die (I don't dare use the word "win" for now), and it keeps me going.
UMEE	Posted - 2007.12.04 15:34:00 - [84] Originally by: Buyerr I am so sick and tired of the so called pvp. Ganked 10V1 is NOT PVP. Killing a defenceless ship is NOT pvp! It have around the same pvp element as me jumping some one from behind with a baseball bat and celling it a ôfightö afterwards. You gotta change the lame and extremely stupid way gates and pvp works. Or you will end up with nothing but gankers! I am so sick and tired of getting ganked and I am so sick and tired of having to gank. There is freaking more pvp and tactic in freaking WORLD OF WARCRAFT. How big do you think that game would be if lvl 70 could stand around killing lvl 5Æs all day?! (which is kind of the same odds when ganking some one). Get your head out of you buttholes and do some work on the pvp section of the game so pvp will Actually become pvp and not just a freaking gang-*****of some oneà Sigh FFS.. canÆt be that freaking hard.. i actually prefer WoW PVP myself simply cuz if i feel like PVPing, i'll go and PVP. in EVE, i have to look for a fight...sometimes for a long time and chances of winning can be quite slim those arent even my issues though. what bothers me the most is that PVP happens either at gates, asteroid belts (if you feel like ganking someone), and, if ure lucky to be in a war-decced corp, at outposts/POSs. but mostly at gates. without warp disruption bubbles, and with the warp to 0km feature, gate PVP wont even happen. so there's nothing "free" about LOOKING for PVP....cuz u may not get any for hours. EVE PVP is garbage essentially (simply because it's not structured and has no objectives...unless you roleplay and make your own) BUT it looks good, has cool toys, and it's the only thing in space =) so yea, I'll play EVE, but I definitely go back to WoW all the time.
Sky Grunthor Minmatar Core Element	Posted - 2007.12.04 15:40:00 - [85] Originally by: kurg Its that simple, no real tactics no real skill except a roll of dice in hopes of having a fitting thats better then the opponent OR simply out number your opponent so its overwelming, again no real skill or tactics Kurg I have been in a fight of 8 vs 4. We where the 8, they where the 4 and they won. They controlled the battlefield. Determined engagements. and wiped out our asses for us. They did this even though we where all experienced and semi experienced pvpr's because we chose to duke it out and they chose to duke it out and they had the better tactics and plan. This game can be about blob versus blob but it is only that way if both sides choose that. I have rarely been in a blob vs blob fight. (I dont consider 8 on one side being a blob) but I have been in many small gang fights. Gang fights are great. they are fun and exciting and get your heart racing. I get on eve quite often and go out with my gang of around 6 usually looking for a fight. Whether that fight is with 1, 2, 3 or 10 people it doesn't matter. what matters is wether we think we can win. not know we can but think we can. its a decision we made that getting out and fighting is more important and enjoyable than protecting your assetts by only fighting with overwhelming advantage. If you are not finding that kind of opponent then you must not be in low sec all that much. We find that kind of fight pretty regularly. And we all have fun doing it. And we get a special kick by doing it to a person with a stick up there .... well you understand. :D Search: Sky Grunthor
UMEE	Posted - 2007.12.04 15:52:00 - [86] Originally by: Buyerr Originally by: Cyrilis In reality the problem is EVE is too real. I would assume you live ina nice safe place where nothing really bad ever happens. In places like Darfur where roving gangs can kill at will with impunity bad things happen. Without people banding together to form govenments to protect thier own intrests: safety, security a way to address grievences withtout violence. Bad things can and will happen. When you leave the heavly protected space you need to be prepared for the worst. yup, but this is a game not RL, if i wanted the real **** and annoying element of RL i would just go out the door and not use time in a game ;) althought that is not completely true, since in real life some rules are made really fast and even in the worst countries there are some unwritten roles since you can't just get a clone when you die... which let people do whatever without any consequence... although the main thing with this tread is not that it is too harsh (i have no problem with that), but that pvp is as it is. I totally agree. in addition, EVE PVP has NO OBJECTIVES... the real objective of the game is to make cash and get better at using your ship so that you CAN PVP. however, there are no situations that throw you in the middle of PVP; you can chill in 0.0 or empire just PVE'ing without anyone bothering you, and there is no concrete reason to PVP. in a way, we have to "use our imagination" to justify PVP, or make up reasons to pvp, and this bores me. - create missions that require you to PVP (bounty is lame because it just gives you money) - have maybe half a dozen regions (not the entire freaking world) over which players have a good reason to fight; this would concentrate PVP and make it more exciting - remove gates (will never happen), remove warp to 0km; black ops and jump drives are not the right moves because most people don't have these ships; and won't. - YES, have structured SCENARIOS that put you and the opposing side in one solar system; one team to take over some base, deliver top secret data, assassinate an NPC, whatever, and the other team has to prevent this. so great. we have these sick capital ships, carriers, the works. why? wtf is the point? so you can dominate the other side? why? what are you fighting for? resources? outposts? meh, i'll go somewhere else. so once you have these resources and outposts, what then? you can dock and/or earn the same isk you could have earned running lvl 4's. PVP has to be truly mandatory. it's not in EVE. pirates and gankers are manifestations of people TRYING really hard to PVP
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.12.04 16:05:00 - [87] Piracy and ganking are simply the lowest common denominators of PvP. They're not the only form, but you'll see it more often than not because its the form of PvP most focused on seeking unwilling targets. Its the easiest method of PvPing with the most immediate return on investment. When it comes to alliances, you may not see the point of towers, stations and sovreignty, but call'em crazy, they do. You don't see it much because its VERY goal oriented. You don't blob the caps for a grins and giggles night raiding the belt ratters, you bring them out to make another alliance very nervous about their survival odds. If there's a form of PvP that needs a desperately overdue boost, its anti-pirate PvP. People who would protect others from player pirates are hammered for daring to do it in low sec empire with security status hits that aren't in their best interests. Its not that there's no interest in playing the "good guys", the mechanics of the game just do not support it adequately, to say nothing of the fact that its largely a losing proposition from an income standpoint.
Cyrilis	Posted - 2007.12.04 16:12:00 - [88] Originally by: UMEE Originally by: Buyerr Originally by: Cyrilis In reality the problem is EVE is too real. I would assume you live ina nice safe place where nothing really bad ever happens. In places like Darfur where roving gangs can kill at will with impunity bad things happen. Without people banding together to form govenments to protect thier own intrests: safety, security a way to address grievences withtout violence. Bad things can and will happen. When you leave the heavly protected space you need to be prepared for the worst. yup, but this is a game not RL, if i wanted the real **** and annoying element of RL i would just go out the door and not use time in a game ;) althought that is not completely true, since in real life some rules are made really fast and even in the worst countries there are some unwritten roles since you can't just get a clone when you die... which let people do whatever without any consequence... although the main thing with this tread is not that it is too harsh (i have no problem with that), but that pvp is as it is. I totally agree. in addition, EVE PVP has NO OBJECTIVES... the real objective of the game is to make cash and get better at using your ship so that you CAN PVP. however, there are no situations that throw you in the middle of PVP; you can chill in 0.0 or empire just PVE'ing without anyone bothering you, and there is no concrete reason to PVP. in a way, we have to "use our imagination" to justify PVP, or make up reasons to pvp, and this bores me. - create missions that require you to PVP (bounty is lame because it just gives you money) - have maybe half a dozen regions (not the entire freaking world) over which players have a good reason to fight; this would concentrate PVP and make it more exciting - remove gates (will never happen), remove warp to 0km; black ops and jump drives are not the right moves because most people don't have these ships; and won't. - YES, have structured SCENARIOS that put you and the opposing side in one solar system; one team to take over some base, deliver top secret data, assassinate an NPC, whatever, and the other team has to prevent this. so great. we have these sick capital ships, carriers, the works. why? wtf is the point? so you can dominate the other side? why? what are you fighting for? resources? outposts? meh, i'll go somewhere else. so once you have these resources and outposts, what then? you can dock and/or earn the same isk you could have earned running lvl 4's. PVP has to be truly mandatory. it's not in EVE. pirates and gankers are manifestations of people TRYING really hard to PVP If people who had sovrenty used it to protect people entering thier system, setup trade and protect it, charge taxes for this etc etc. Their would need to be some mechanics for this like a distress call perhaps that sends your warp to location to sovrenty holding members in a system so they can help you.
Doomed Predator Xoth Inc Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.12.04 16:21:00 - [89] Edited by: Doomed Predator on 04/12/2007 16:21:27 I hope the OP got podded too with some expensive impplants. It's too hard to have a scout or support or a cloak, or WCS or ECM or a mwd or nanos or .... Besides,do not undock in something you cannot afford to lose. Now give stuff or the bunny gets it
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.12.04 16:31:00 - [90] Most alliances that set up sovreignty have zero interest in allowing anyone but their alliance members using their systems. Consider. An average territorial alliance is 800 members. Average alliances control maybe a handful of systems, say 10. Now, not everyone in the alliance is on all the time, so say only half the alliance is active at any given time. That's still about 40 people per system, if there's not a pressing matter requiring the alliance to gather into a fleet. Point being, most alliances have the built in ability to maximally use the space they've taken. Its not always going to be in their best interests to let anyone else use it, because why else would they secure it for themselves? 0.0 isn't like empire at all. You can see a hundred people in an empire system every day of the year like its nothing. You see a hundred people in a 0.0 system, your ass starts looking for a safe spot. That many people in one place is either an alliance's home system, or some serious sh*t is about to happen/is happening. Its a totally different dynamic, and its very self oriented. If an alliance gives you a pass to work their space, they typically expect something from you in return.

Wacoede Amarr Allied Combat Team Endless Horizon	Posted - 2007.12.04 16:40:00 - [91] See Sig _______________________________ Originally by: Avery Fatwallet when someone sez "eve is too tuff" standard reply is "can i have stuff?"
Mark Lucius The Vinlanders SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.04 16:43:00 - [92] Originally by: Nianda SeCann However I stand by my point of constructing a reply rather than typing a quick "bash them while they're down" style quip You're absolutely correct. Normally I refrain from posting like this, but the rant in the OP (it is not even an argument) got me fired up. Had the OP been any more constructive I would have replied as calmly as most of the others in this thread. I apologize, sir. --- Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.04 16:46:00 - [93] Originally by: UMEE i actually prefer WoW PVP myself simply cuz if i feel like PVPing, i'll go and PVP. So, why are you here?
Shar'Tuk TheHated	Posted - 2007.12.04 17:02:00 - [94] PVP stands for player vs player if you forgot so yes indeed it tech is PVP. Now its not very fair PVP but PVP none the less. People do it because it makes sense to save assets.. in real battle you wouldnt make things fair to give the other side a fair fight, no that wouldnt be too smart now would it. How can you compair WoW PVP with EVE PVP, you cant actually loose anything in WoW and what are these tactics you were talking about? Anyhow... DRINK RUM It fights scurvy & boosts morale! THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES!
Wu Jiun	Posted - 2007.12.04 19:27:00 - [95] Originally by: Ares Lightfeather Originally by: Rjaiajik Kajvoril What the hell do you think Trinity is you dumb ****? Trinity is specifically adding the Black Ops Battleship and Jump Freighters so people don't have to go through the damn gates. It'll mean people will need to rethink pirating. Don't say it !!! The usual carebear, errr ganker pirate forum troll still didn't understand that it's possible to bypass any gatecamp now. Don't tell them, they might start to whine about it ! Thats already possible you bitter little victim. Ever heard about carriers? The point is a good pirate knows that the usual carebear won't adapt to game mechanics anyway. So effectively people like the op will always find a way to get ganked no matter what.
Kryss Darkdust	Posted - 2007.12.04 20:20:00 - [96] Originally by: Janu Hull Piracy and ganking are simply the lowest common denominators of PvP. They're not the only form, but you'll see it more often than not because its the form of PvP most focused on seeking unwilling targets. Its the easiest method of PvPing with the most immediate return on investment. When it comes to alliances, you may not see the point of towers, stations and sovreignty, but call'em crazy, they do. You don't see it much because its VERY goal oriented. You don't blob the caps for a grins and giggles night raiding the belt ratters, you bring them out to make another alliance very nervous about their survival odds. If there's a form of PvP that needs a desperately overdue boost, its anti-pirate PvP. People who would protect others from player pirates are hammered for daring to do it in low sec empire with security status hits that aren't in their best interests. Its not that there's no interest in playing the "good guys", the mechanics of the game just do not support it adequately, to say nothing of the fact that its largely a losing proposition from an income standpoint. I agree this boils down to victims of piracy having some proper recourse against pirates. I personaly think that bounties should lower sec rating. There are a number of ways it could work but the basic idea is to make Bounties a viable system. Something like this might work. If you kill someone in Low Sec, the person that has kill rights can set a bounty. The amount of money he adds has an affect on the pirates Sec rating. The more he pays the more the sec rating is lowered. That persons sec rating rises at a reduced rate until he pays of the 'debt'. The pirates corp that the pirate belongs to has the oppertunity to war dec their victims corp for free and can maintain that war dec for free indefinitly until either the victim removes the bounty or the pirate willingly lifts the war dec. Furthermore I would make the bounties corp specific meaning when you set a bounty you can select from a drop list the corps or alliances you can collect that bounty ensuring that reputable corps get picked and scammers do not. Just an idea. Are you are gamer? www.playhardliveeasy.blogspot.com
Allan Robertson Gallente Azure Horizon Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.12.04 20:31:00 - [97] Originally by: Mark Lucius [ ]Use scouts. [ ]Don't fly alone. [ ]Get your friends. [x]Waaah waaah. Not everybody has access to these things. --- The Cake is a Lie! Say YES! to Mining Cargo Holds on barges!
Allan Robertson Gallente Azure Horizon Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.12.04 20:32:00 - [98] Originally by: Karlemgne Can I have your stuff? There are plenty of optional PvP games out there, bud. Try WoW. sigh sigh sigh sigh sigh --- The Cake is a Lie! Say YES! to Mining Cargo Holds on barges!
UMEE	Posted - 2007.12.04 20:44:00 - [99] Edited by: UMEE on 04/12/2007 20:47:07 Originally by: Hannobaal Originally by: UMEE i actually prefer WoW PVP myself simply cuz if i feel like PVPing, i'll go and PVP. So, why are you here? im actually here for the cool ships and the sci-fi factor. this is the best it gets unfortunately. dont get me wrong, i have tried and still PVP in EVE....but i prefer's WoW's PVP structure. because there actually is structure - PVP is always there, can be solo or group oriented, has objectives, is forgiving and fun. my issue is that i dont like alliances. so that takes away most of the fun PVP for me. my problem with alliances is that sovereignty and "EVE politics" have no ultimate purpose or objective. people just make em up as they go along, for no purposeful reason. galaxy domination is a lame objective. oh and also: there are more than enough resources for all. making isk is really easy, so fighting over high quality resource nodes is pointless. imo, what they need to do it take away 80% of what's out there and make everyone fight over the rest. then pvp would have an objective to it.
Ignatius Armitage	Posted - 2007.12.04 20:45:00 - [100] pvp is a means to end for many. Why force your sportmanship into war?

Cyrilis	Posted - 2007.12.04 20:47:00 - [101] Originally by: Kryss Darkdust Originally by: Janu Hull Piracy and ganking are simply the lowest common denominators of PvP. They're not the only form, but you'll see it more often than not because its the form of PvP most focused on seeking unwilling targets. Its the easiest method of PvPing with the most immediate return on investment. When it comes to alliances, you may not see the point of towers, stations and sovreignty, but call'em crazy, they do. You don't see it much because its VERY goal oriented. You don't blob the caps for a grins and giggles night raiding the belt ratters, you bring them out to make another alliance very nervous about their survival odds. If there's a form of PvP that needs a desperately overdue boost, its anti-pirate PvP. People who would protect others from player pirates are hammered for daring to do it in low sec empire with security status hits that aren't in their best interests. Its not that there's no interest in playing the "good guys", the mechanics of the game just do not support it adequately, to say nothing of the fact that its largely a losing proposition from an income standpoint. I agree this boils down to victims of piracy having some proper recourse against pirates. I personaly think that bounties should lower sec rating. There are a number of ways it could work but the basic idea is to make Bounties a viable system. Something like this might work. If you kill someone in Low Sec, the person that has kill rights can set a bounty. The amount of money he adds has an affect on the pirates Sec rating. The more he pays the more the sec rating is lowered. That persons sec rating rises at a reduced rate until he pays of the 'debt'. The pirates corp that the pirate belongs to has the oppertunity to war dec their victims corp for free and can maintain that war dec for free indefinitly until either the victim removes the bounty or the pirate willingly lifts the war dec. Furthermore I would make the bounties corp specific meaning when you set a bounty you can select from a drop list the corps or alliances you can collect that bounty ensuring that reputable corps get picked and scammers do not. Just an idea. Variation on this might be the ability to assign your kill rights with a contract to a person/corp/alliance or Allow your bounty to be collactable without concord interfernce basically making your kill rights public. Of course this only matters in high sec.
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.04 21:03:00 - [102] PAIN "Pain" is Eve's Blessing, and its curse. Strange as it may sound, ôpainö is the central attraction of Eve. It is often painful to die in Eve. It can be even more painful to be a victim of theft. In 0.0, there are many Player Owned Stations (POS). Some cost billions. Player Owned Outposts cost even more (over 20 billionà). A player can lose such things, and do lose them. Ships with well over a billion isk worth of Officer modules are not horribly uncommon. Some ships would cost multiple billions to replace. Folks fly such ships into combat and lose them. Risk and Pain. In short, the struggles in Eve have more emotional ôimpactö than in less ôpainfulö games. It is this ôimpactö that is the attraction. Successfully getting 10,000,000,000+isk value worth of cargo successfully delivered to a deep 0.0 destination has a real satisfying feel to it. The rush of winning a high stakes battle is intense. Even losing a high stakes battle that is well fought can be a rush. As stated above, "Pain" is Eve's Blessing, and its curse. Pain gives Eve its "impact", but it also makes that impact more rare. There is not, and never will be, a solution for this, only a balance. The "Balance" has NOTHING to do with how hard it is to make kills. The "Balance" has everything to do with how painful it is to lose a fight. You want more frequent fights? Then make them less painful. NOT a solution I recommend. The ôstrugglesö among the major pvp groups are ôseriousö high stakes fights. It might be ôjust a gameö, but so is the Superbowl / World Cup. The moment you enter 0.4, and especially 0.0, you enter their world, and they will trample you without a thought, and rightly so. The stakes they play for are far too serious for them to go around you. While many are happy to get a chance to use their guns on any uninvited guests to 0.0, many donÆt enjoy shooting strangers, but they all WILL shoot strangers and rightly so. Not doing so would doom them. Anything not æconfirmed friendlyÆ is a threat. Then there are the Non-PvPers. In addition to the PvP struggles in this game, the non-PvPers also have struggles of their own. As much as some small minded fools whine otherwise, it is not easy to become a major economic player in this game. It takes work, people skills, and more work (if you think six months of serious play is enough, think again. Six months of serious and dedicated play will get your foot in the door, but only if you donÆt whine or do other stupid crapà) Play nice while you butcher each other.


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