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Slingshoot
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Posted - 2007.12.06 01:46:00 -
[1]
Got a question, are we suppose to not use torps anymore? My raven doesnt hit targets that are more then 14 km away from me, might be a bugg or i might have missed something?!
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Endless Subversion
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Posted - 2007.12.06 01:51:00 -
[2]
You missed a few things.
Test server, the hundreds of threads on torp changes, the dev blog, the patch notes and trinity patch.
From the range you quote it also looks like you missed a few skill trains for them. Missile projection, missile bombardment and caldari battleship ranks all improve range on your raven's torps as do the appropriate rigs.
They announced this change over a month ago and there has been massive community discussion and debate regarding it...
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Slingshoot
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Posted - 2007.12.06 01:58:00 -
[3]
Thx,
ye ive seen it but i didnt get that the nerf was goin to be this massiv.
skillwise, bs 5 torp 5 missile bomb 5, missile proj is the skill that is the lowest only 2 there.. but i thought the missiles were suppose to hit targets like 30km away from you..
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Plausable Swap
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Posted - 2007.12.06 02:10:00 -
[4]
You just have missed the part about torps launching faster too.
It's a buff, not a nerf.
++
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ThaDollaGenerale
Questionable Intentions
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Posted - 2007.12.06 03:23:00 -
[5]
I've been seeing the massive whine tidal wave approachign about torps. So many people in local are asking "Why aren't my torps hitting anything." Give me a break people and read your damn mail.
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes |
zayanka
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Posted - 2007.12.06 03:51:00 -
[6]
what is the range of torps, Bs lvl5, bomb and proj to lvl4 ?
Are there any rigs to improve the range, if so what rigs should I fit and what range would I get ?
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Apollyonn
Caldari
Synergy.
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.12.06 03:58:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Slingshoot
Got a question, are we suppose to not use torps anymore? My raven doesnt hit targets that are more then 14 km away from me, might be a bugg or i might have missed something?!
Train your missile support skills. Hit at about 48KM for beast damage. End of story. |
NCP S2
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Posted - 2007.12.06 04:21:00 -
[8]
Haven't had the joy of getting on post patch yet *stupid army and making me work* but when I do, I should be able to hit in the high 20's with torps and my skills. Most of my support skills are at lvl 4, so is Caldari BS. I might even be able to hit close to 30km, which would be awesome.
The buff for torps was a long time coming, and very welcome from my point of view. Let me see any other BS pilots get up close and friendly when I'm rocking Torps and see how they like the new change also :)
Some other races ships get a nice buff also, the Tempest, I think it is, the split weapons Minnie BS... whichever it is, will be even more of a beast at close range. Large AC's and Torps... good combination.
Thanks to Santiago Cortes for tossing me to this thread :) Just wanted to rub it in how awesome this change is. Sure, can't hit BS's in missions out past 30k with torps, but is it THAT much of an issue? Cruises worked for me just fine in missions. And it's not like this wasn't known about a long time ago, or at least, long enough to prepare for. If you missed it, that's on you.
To the OP, 14km should be pretty much the max on everything except for a Raven. Raven pilots will get a nice chunk further due to our bonusses, and 30k isn't too hard to hit, although it will take some work.
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Marcuis
Caldari
M. Corp
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2007.12.06 04:26:00 -
[9]
Well All uses newbie Caldri pilots stop complaining about Torps, if you had skills and know how fly your ship correctly, you notice that the Torps have been improve a great deal, I pitty any fool who gets in my 30km range of my torps. if you dont like the range of torps then switch to cruise missles or even traing your additional skills in missiles..all your mission running raven *****s grow up, learn to tank your raven if you goin fly in at 30km it can be easly done. And by the way I am cadlri pilot who fly missile boats So I do know what Im talking about...
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Justin Marr
Macabre Votum
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.12.06 04:44:00 -
[10]
Torp range should be, flight time x missle velocity or some such like that.
Ignorance is Curable, Stupidity is Forever.
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Kouki Satori
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Posted - 2007.12.06 05:03:00 -
[11]
Your kind of post is the absolute trash I can't stand.
Want to REALLY look smart? Don't SAY "It can be done". PROVE it can be done, and done so more effectively. A nerf is when overall the change sucks. A buff is when overall the change is a benifit.
If this is more in line with blasters, then why do I still have ammo thats flying at around 2300 m/s? Why do I have ammo that can't use one CRUCIAL skill needed for anything besides a carrier-sized vessel?? All that crap combined makes that very few thou extra KM's of range over blasters USELESS, since the ship you're attacking doesn't stop as soon as your torp launches. But no, thats not all...
The other problem with siege launchers over blaster/etc - their grid/cpu requirements. I'd be okay IF I COULD FIT AN AB/MWD, but on average a siege launcher required 50% more cpu/grid. I can deal with the cap needs due to CCC's and faction boosters and such, but thats for PvE, and non-LOW-SEC PvE. Its not bright to run a ship in which it plus one mod puts you over a billion ISK. One more thing about cap - it recharges once you turn your MWD off. CPU/Grid does not...
One last question. If anyone else says torps have become PvP i-win-buttons, then I'll give you a million ISK for each and every person who will choose them now over guns. Torps only have high alpha-strikes if you can waltz not only YOUR SHIP over to the enemy, but also YOUR AMMO to their hull before they hit & run.
So in conclusion, I ask HOW torps' new benifits outweigh the nerfs. Where are the benifits over the old system? What is an effective 33.3% DPS worth when you can't get your ammo to their hull in time? Be a wise man and not a wise-a** and by proving it, not simply declairing it. 
BTW There are so many torp-using carebears that will be gravely hurt by this that I'm sure SOME additional concesion will be awarded in less than 2 months. I'm just glad I've been training hybrid skills...
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pandymen
Caldari
Red Dwarf Mining Corporation
space weaponry and trade
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Posted - 2007.12.06 05:12:00 -
[12]
Edited by: pandymen on 06/12/2007 05:13:43
Torp 5, 3 days remaining. I was very excited about this when I heard about the change and i've been training for it since.
Edit: Kouki, think a bit about setups that can take advantage. Unfortunately with the damp nerf, the damp raven isn't as good as it would have been, but still, there are quite a few possibilities for torps.
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Arazel Chainfire
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Posted - 2007.12.06 05:16:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Kouki Satori
Your kind of post is the absolute trash I can't stand.
Want to REALLY look smart? Don't SAY "It can be done". PROVE it can be done, and done so more effectively. A nerf is when overall the change sucks. A buff is when overall the change is a benifit.
If this is more in line with blasters, then why do I still have ammo thats flying at around 2300 m/s? Why do I have ammo that can't use one CRUCIAL skill needed for anything besides a carrier-sized vessel?? All that crap combined makes that very few thou extra KM's of range over blasters USELESS, since the ship you're attacking doesn't stop as soon as your torp launches. But no, thats not all...
The other problem with siege launchers over blaster/etc - their grid/cpu requirements. I'd be okay IF I COULD FIT AN AB/MWD, but on average a siege launcher required 50% more cpu/grid. I can deal with the cap needs due to CCC's and faction boosters and such, but thats for PvE, and non-LOW-SEC PvE. Its not bright to run a ship in which it plus one mod puts you over a billion ISK. One more thing about cap - it recharges once you turn your MWD off. CPU/Grid does not...
One last question. If anyone else says torps have become PvP i-win-buttons, then I'll give you a million ISK for each and every person who will choose them now over guns. Torps only have high alpha-strikes if you can waltz not only YOUR SHIP over to the enemy, but also YOUR AMMO to their hull before they hit & run.
So in conclusion, I ask HOW torps' new benifits outweigh the nerfs. Where are the benifits over the old system? What is an effective 33.3% DPS worth when you can't get your ammo to their hull in time? Be a wise man and not a wise-a** and by proving it, not simply declairing it.
BTW There are so many torp-using carebears that will be gravely hurt by this that I'm sure SOME additional concesion will be awarded in less than 2 months. I'm just glad I've been training hybrid skills...
PvP raven setup
6 Seige missile launchers
ab/mwd/nothing + cap booster + webber + warp jammer + 2 target painters
lows - either an armor repair setup or a plate setup
rigs - either trimark rigs, armor repair amount rigs, or missile damage rigs
No, i haven't tested this yet - i don't have enough money to risk a battleship in pvp yet. However, this will not work solo - you can't catch anything. The webber and warp jammer are there solely for when you tackler's are popped. The problem that YOU have is you are thinking solo. There is a signature in the forums - choose two of the following; pvp, solo, success. With caldari, you can't solo pvp anywhere near as effectively as minmatar, because of the difficulty in choosing your targets rather than being chosen as a target. So no, this change isn't the new omgwtfpwn weapon. But now caldari have an effective pvp missile weapon at the battleship weapon - aka, something that can do more than 600dps max. If you're target warps away before your missiles can hit it, you're tacklers aren't doing their job.
-Arazel
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Kouki Satori
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Posted - 2007.12.06 05:22:00 -
[14]
I want to double-post because this is a different angle on this, something that also makes CCP go against something they're saying they are trying to fix.
NEED FOR SPEED.
How the F*** can this decrease mission times? I now need to activate an afterburner in a mission to get near EACH mission rat. It wouldn't be a problem if A) I could even use a MWD in deadspaces, and B) rats didn't orbit on average well beyond 20k and C) at speeds nearing my skill-buffed afterburner speeds. And to do lvl4 missions, I either have to waste time finding a buddy (and waste more time splitting profits), or decrease DPS by ~15% by remove a launcher just to add that afterburner. Thats also assuming I *have* a slot I can give to an afterburner. Currently I need my raven's mids for a painter (to use the torps effectively), hardeners, and booster/amp. Remove one of those, and my ship is borked for lvl4 w/torps. No matter HOW you look at it, this will make lvl4 mission MORE TIME CONSUMING.
I can and do use cruise missiles for lvl4's, but its only for missions with butt-loads of HACs, and doubles my time on battleship rats. Missiles have always had the trade off for their range, which is the time needed to get there. Now that they are short range, where is the velocity bonus?????
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Paulo Damarr
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Posted - 2007.12.06 05:26:00 -
[15]
I was slightly miffed that torps would no longer be as viable for missions but my excitement that one day I might be able to use my Raven in pvp with torps was greater.
Originally by: Tortun Nahme
CCP also condones thinking, I suggest you try it from tiem to time
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Kyra Felann
Gallente
Red Eye .Inc.
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Posted - 2007.12.06 05:28:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Kouki Satori
I want to double-post because this is a different angle on this, something that also makes CCP go against something they're saying they are trying to fix.
NEED FOR SPEED.
How the F*** can this decrease mission times? I now need to activate an afterburner in a mission to get near EACH mission rat. It wouldn't be a problem if A) I could even use a MWD in deadspaces, and B) rats didn't orbit on average well beyond 20k and C) at speeds nearing my skill-buffed afterburner speeds. And to do lvl4 missions, I either have to waste time finding a buddy (and waste more time splitting profits), or decrease DPS by ~15% by remove a launcher just to add that afterburner. Thats also assuming I *have* a slot I can give to an afterburner. Currently I need my raven's mids for a painter (to use the torps effectively), hardeners, and booster/amp. Remove one of those, and my ship is borked for lvl4 w/torps. No matter HOW you look at it, this will make lvl4 mission MORE TIME CONSUMING.
I can and do use cruise missiles for lvl4's, but its only for missions with butt-loads of HACs, and doubles my time on battleship rats. Missiles have always had the trade off for their range, which is the time needed to get there. Now that they are short range, where is the velocity bonus?????
WTF are you talking about? "Need for speed" means optimizing the game for better performance.
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Kouki Satori
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Posted - 2007.12.06 05:56:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Paulo Damarr
I was slightly miffed that torps would no longer be as viable for missions but my excitement that one day I might be able to use my Raven in pvp with torps was greater.
When something is the mainstay for a large chunk of community, a change as drastic as this makes no sense. Torps were already on the verge - taking forever to reach the distant target, taking up lots of cpu/grid, not using an important 'ballistic ammunition' skill, needing an additional module to work on non-BS ships.
And btw, since the NFS imperitive is to reduce server load, I think I was wrong about the torp nerf not helping. I know I won't be playing lvl4's as much if it takes me 25-50% more time to complete missions, and I know others certainly won't. Reducing the active user count by 5-15% should yeild a vast reduction in server load. Some are already long enough where I can't play them - I'm not a 12yr old who has unlimited time to spend on the PC. I play to enjoy the game a certain way, and this greatly disrupts how I can play.
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Marcuis
Caldari
M. Corp
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2007.12.06 06:11:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Kouki Satori
Your kind of post is the absolute trash I can't stand.
Want to REALLY look smart? Don't SAY "It can be done". PROVE it can be done, and done so more effectively. A nerf is when overall the change sucks. A buff is when overall the change is a benifit.
If this is more in line with blasters, then why do I still have ammo thats flying at around 2300 m/s? Why do I have ammo that can't use one CRUCIAL skill needed for anything besides a carrier-sized vessel?? All that crap combined makes that very few thou extra KM's of range over blasters USELESS, since the ship you're attacking doesn't stop as soon as your torp launches. But no, thats not all...
The other problem with siege launchers over blaster/etc - their grid/cpu requirements. I'd be okay IF I COULD FIT AN AB/MWD, but on average a siege launcher required 50% more cpu/grid. I can deal with the cap needs due to CCC's and faction boosters and such, but thats for PvE, and non-LOW-SEC PvE. Its not bright to run a ship in which it plus one mod puts you over a billion ISK. One more thing about cap - it recharges once you turn your MWD off. CPU/Grid does not...
One last question. If anyone else says torps have become PvP i-win-buttons, then I'll give you a million ISK for each and every person who will choose them now over guns. Torps only have high alpha-strikes if you can waltz not only YOUR SHIP over to the enemy, but also YOUR AMMO to their hull before they hit & run.
So in conclusion, I ask HOW torps' new benifits outweigh the nerfs. Where are the benifits over the old system? What is an effective 33.3% DPS worth when you can't get your ammo to their hull in time? Be a wise man and not a wise-a** and by proving it, not simply declairing it.
BTW There are so many torp-using carebears that will be gravely hurt by this that I'm sure SOME additional concesion will be awarded in less than 2 months. I'm just glad I've been training hybrid skills...
Are You telling me your first comment was it directed at Me.. to prove how the Torps are alot better now or how you can tank in raven missions, or even used Ravens in pvp with torps....?
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Yaggher Xanuben
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Posted - 2007.12.06 06:22:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Kouki Satori
Reducing the active user count by 5-15% should yeild a vast reduction in server load.
Are you referring to macro missioners?
Yes, they cannot grind that fast as they used to.
Use cruises for missions. You will need no painter to hit cruisers/frigs and get an additional med slot for tank.
Fit a missile damage rig and you're fine.
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Laerelyn Love
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Posted - 2007.12.06 06:23:00 -
[20]
I think caldari are not supposed to use torps anymore. Everyone else will find them to be much more fun. BS sized rocket launcher i guess. Raven + torps= bad juju. minnie+torps = an actual use for those launcher points.
It sucks. It's done. Get over it. They'll just nerf something else to compensate. No big whoop.
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Don Juanito
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Posted - 2007.12.06 06:27:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Kouki Satori
Originally by: Paulo Damarr
I was slightly miffed that torps would no longer be as viable for missions but my excitement that one day I might be able to use my Raven in pvp with torps was greater.
When something is the mainstay for a large chunk of community, a change as drastic as this makes no sense. Torps were already on the verge - taking forever to reach the distant target, taking up lots of cpu/grid, not using an important 'ballistic ammunition' skill, needing an additional module to work on non-BS ships.
And btw, since the NFS imperitive is to reduce server load, I think I was wrong about the torp nerf not helping. I know I won't be playing lvl4's as much if it takes me 25-50% more time to complete missions, and I know others certainly won't. Reducing the active user count by 5-15% should yeild a vast reduction in server load. Some are already long enough where I can't play them - I'm not a 12yr old who has unlimited time to spend on the PC. I play to enjoy the game a certain way, and this greatly disrupts how I can play.
can i have your stuff?
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UniqueOne
Caldari
Mining Bytes Inc.
Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.12.06 06:30:00 -
[22]
The new torps are a joke outside of pvp. Many players have lost ability to make income from this change.
Before this change was introduced CCP really needed to think about the situation. They obviously never fly caldari.
The best solution would be one of the following...
1. Add an extra mid slot and grid so that an afterburner can be fitted. All other races with short range weapons have mid slots to use. The raven does not have any free if you want any tank.
2. Increase raven's top speed so that rats do not move faster then them. Also bringing the ship in line with the other battleships that use short range weapons.
3. Decrease rat orbit distance to something reasonable.
Without one of the above fixes, caldari and ravens have been totally screwed for anything outside of PVP.
End of story.
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Forando
Interstellar Cowards
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Posted - 2007.12.06 06:31:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Forando on 06/12/2007 06:34:43
If I just finished Torpedoes V and bought a rack of officer launchers for my Carebear Navy Raven, this would be the thread to utter my disgust in, yes?
I feel for the torp mission runners...
...No wait, it was just the tingling sensation of laughter!
Now, how would you like if a Blasterthron could shoot at 100km range? Sounds slightly overpowered, yes? That's kinda like what torps has been able to do for quite a while now.
Nah, the Torpedo changes are quite fair. And from a PvP point of view, adds some good flavor now. I'm looking forward to how things are going to turn out: Torp damage buffed and more agile Caldari ships!
EDIT:
Added smiley!
Enjoy, and fly safe..
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Marcuis
Caldari
M. Corp
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2007.12.06 06:40:00 -
[24]
Originally by: UniqueOne
The new torps are a joke outside of pvp. Many players have lost ability to make income from this change.
Before this change was introduced CCP really needed to think about the situation. They obviously never fly caldari.
The best solution would be one of the following...
1. Add an extra mid slot and grid so that an afterburner can be fitted. All other races with short range weapons have mid slots to use. The raven does not have any free if you want any tank.
2. Increase raven's top speed so that rats do not move faster then them. Also bringing the ship in line with the other battleships that use short range weapons.
3. Decrease rat orbit distance to something reasonable.
Without one of the above fixes, caldari and ravens have been totally screwed for anything outside of PVP.
End of story.
Laughs...You my friend are a noob when comes to raven pvp, there is nothing wrong with torps, they are alot better now then before...did you forge caldri only race who do all damages types not to mention dont need powegrid to fire your missiles unlike the turrents...6 mid slot is enough to put a tank on your raven with 5lows slots....simple get to know your ship.....
end of story
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Marcuis
Caldari
M. Corp
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2007.12.06 06:46:00 -
[25]
Originally by: UniqueOne
The new torps are a joke outside of pvp. Many players have lost ability to make income from this change.
Before this change was introduced CCP really needed to think about the situation. They obviously never fly caldari.
The best solution would be one of the following...
1. Add an extra mid slot and grid so that an afterburner can be fitted. All other races with short range weapons have mid slots to use. The raven does not have any free if you want any tank.
2. Increase raven's top speed so that rats do not move faster then them. Also bringing the ship in line with the other battleships that use short range weapons.
3. Decrease rat orbit distance to something reasonable.
Without one of the above fixes, caldari and ravens have been totally screwed for anything outside of PVP.
End of story.
Laughs...You my friend are a noob when comes to raven pvp, there is nothing wrong with torps, they are alot better now then before...did you forge caldri only race who do all damages types not to mention dont need powegrid to fire your missiles unlike the turrents...6 mid slot is enough to put a tank on your raven with 5lows slots....simple get to know your ship.....
end of story
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Marcuis
Caldari
M. Corp
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2007.12.06 06:47:00 -
[26]
Originally by: UniqueOne
The new torps are a joke outside of pvp. Many players have lost ability to make income from this change.
Before this change was introduced CCP really needed to think about the situation. They obviously never fly caldari.
The best solution would be one of the following...
1. Add an extra mid slot and grid so that an afterburner can be fitted. All other races with short range weapons have mid slots to use. The raven does not have any free if you want any tank.
2. Increase raven's top speed so that rats do not move faster then them. Also bringing the ship in line with the other battleships that use short range weapons.
3. Decrease rat orbit distance to something reasonable.
Without one of the above fixes, caldari and ravens have been totally screwed for anything outside of PVP.
End of story.
Laughs...You my friend are a noob when comes to raven pvp, there is nothing wrong with torps, they are alot better now then before...did you forge caldri only race who do all damages types not to mention dont need powegrid to fire your missiles unlike the turrents...6 mid slot is enough to put a tank on your raven with 5lows slots....simple get to know your ship.....
end of story
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Kouki Satori
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Posted - 2007.12.06 06:51:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Forando
Now, how would you like if a Blasterthron could shoot at 100km range? Sounds slightly overpowered, yes? That's kinda like what torps has been able to do for quite a while now.
Nah, the Torpedo changes are quite fair. And from a PvP point of view, adds some good flavor now. I'm looking forward to how things are going to turn out: Torp damage buffed and more agile Caldari ships!
How would you like it if your blasterthon's was was nerfed to that below a raven's and then they gave hybrid ammo a velocity of 1500 m/s? It would be poetic justice to try chasing a MWD'd torp raven, not being able to hit it, while being pwnd to a killmail. Thats why this nerf is so sickning.
Its also because it doesn't balance PvE, it rips it a new one and goes a step further. This is effectively an 80% range nerf in lieu of a 33.3% DPS buff.
Can anyone tell remember why the MUSKET 'died'? Because it's a short-range, high-calibur, inaccurate weapon. A torp has a short range, hits hard, and can't use Guided Missile Precision.
Originally by: Don Juanito
can i have your stuff?
You have no idea. I'm currently adding up how much $$ I can conver this into buy selling everything, getting GTC's, and selling those legit. I'm either going PvP if I can do it with my part-time eve staus, or I'm buying my car a nice, big turbocharger.
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Marcuis
Caldari
M. Corp
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2007.12.06 06:51:00 -
[28]
Originally by: UniqueOne
The new torps are a joke outside of pvp. Many players have lost ability to make income from this change.
Before this change was introduced CCP really needed to think about the situation. They obviously never fly caldari.
The best solution would be one of the following...
1. Add an extra mid slot and grid so that an afterburner can be fitted. All other races with short range weapons have mid slots to use. The raven does not have any free if you want any tank.
2. Increase raven's top speed so that rats do not move faster then them. Also bringing the ship in line with the other battleships that use short range weapons.
3. Decrease rat orbit distance to something reasonable.
Without one of the above fixes, caldari and ravens have been totally screwed for anything outside of PVP.
End of story.
Laughs...You my friend are a noob when comes to raven pvp, there is nothing wrong with torps, they are alot better now then before...did you forge caldri only race who do all damages types not to mention dont need powegrid to fire your missiles unlike the turrents...6 mid slot is enough to put a tank on your raven with 5lows slots....simple get to know your ship.....
end of story
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Admiral Pelleon
Caldari
White Shadow Imperium
Burning Horizons
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Posted - 2007.12.06 07:13:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Slingshoot
Got a question, are we suppose to not use torps anymore? My raven doesnt hit targets that are more then 14 km away from me, might be a bugg or i might have missed something?!
Oh my GOD NO WAY.
You know, I've seen failure before, but this takes on a whole new level.
________
"It's a good day to die!"
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isomo gelard
Gallente
White Shadow Imperium
Burning Horizons
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Posted - 2007.12.06 07:16:00 -
[30]
whine some more why dont you, they will change it! they will!
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