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Is CCP going to be the target of some serious legal allegations?

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Kassas	Posted - 2007.12.06 13:47:00 - [31] Oh - and if EULA's and other contracts were completely suit proof - then why do corporations get sued? Thank you
Verone	Posted - 2007.12.06 13:53:00 - [32] Originally by: Kassas Wrong - can be challenged Verone... True, anything can be challenged in court, but you're more likely to get struck by lightening to be honest that have any form of success. As far as Liability is concerned for damages, loss of earnings, compensation, or anything down those lines, CCP is very, very safe. >>> TRIBUTE TO A FALLEN WINGMAN <<<
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.12.06 13:55:00 - [33] Originally by: Tiger313 Actually the patch didn't damage anything other then it deleted a file which your computer needs to reboot. There's a very easy solution to it: just start up with the windows cd in your cdrom player and fix. No biggie really. People whining about how they "lost" homework and/or work are being dumbarses: if you can get on here to whine then you can get to your homework or work files too. Simple. Shyte happens, you know. No need to be an arse over it. No, people whining about how they lost files or have to 'have their computer repaired' should be disallowed use of any electronic devices for the rest of their lifetimes. Computers should have the right to take out a restraining order against these people. - I wish I was a three foot female doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes.
Thrust SSC	Posted - 2007.12.06 13:56:00 - [34] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 06/12/2007 13:32:11 CCP are not in Europe (though Iceland is part of the European Economic Area), and I doubt anyone is going to ramble a legal case that would not be thrown out by a judge. Iceland is in Europe you tard.
Pitt Bull Caldari	Posted - 2007.12.06 13:56:00 - [35] Jack Thompson, is that you?
Kyrall Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.06 14:00:00 - [36] Originally by: Kirao Wow ! Who would have thought so many lawyers here eh. And next week they will all be surgeons, astronauts or whatever fits the current topic of the day. Dude, we're all astronauts, what game are you playing? - Sig follows: Originally by: DrBiologist I didnt know how to describe the things i was seeing. But I just tried another game and it does the same thing :( what could it be?
Maniva Lakona	Posted - 2007.12.06 14:02:00 - [37] I would love to see people start to take legal action and then p*ss myself when they can't afford the court charges :) O... I very much doubt you'd find a no win no fee solicitor to do it.
Kazuma Saruwatari	Posted - 2007.12.06 14:02:00 - [38] Originally by: Pitt Bull Jack Thompson, is that you? Jeebus he's early if it's true. It isnt Ambulation yet! - Odd Pod Out, a blog of EVE Online
Kiviar Caldari Vice-Presidential Action Rangers	Posted - 2007.12.06 14:06:00 - [39] An EULA in many countries does not constitute legal contracts. Since you have to first by the product with its EULA sight unseen and then have to accept its terms before using something you have already paid for, it is questionable at best. Throw in that in many nations an EULA violates existing consumer protection and provider obligation legislation and just become that funny little screen you have to click through to use your software. As for suing CCP over this, you would have to have either lost an amazingly expensive amount of data, or have very deep pockets, and a lot of time on your hands. Personally as a writer who has (at least i think so) very expensive data on my computer, I back it up in about five different places. Since computers are generally unreliable its just common sense to have important information secured safely off your C:\ drive. Finally, I actually think CCP is fairly lucky, if Blizzard made this same mistake, whoever let it slip would be fired, and Vivendi would lose a considerable amount of money. CCP on the other hand, probably will get away with an apology, which is fine for me, since it was an accident, and they didnÆt screw up my computer. ---
RedClaws Amarr Dragon's Rage Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.12.06 14:06:00 - [40] If if you could (and you can't) would you? Because well you're a major idiot if you install games on the same harddrive as "important stuff"

Kayna Eelai Gallente Shadow Legion Covenant Paxton Federation	Posted - 2007.12.06 14:09:00 - [41] read my last post in here: LINKAGE basicly... eula does not protect them against anything, if the customer wants to sue them for real (which is stupid as it would cost him more money and time than what he would get off it) and it depends on countries fixed to 23.15 kB (23710 bytes)
Kayna Eelai Gallente Shadow Legion Covenant Paxton Federation	Posted - 2007.12.06 14:10:00 - [42] Originally by: Kiviar An EULA in many countries does not constitute legal contracts. Since you have to first by the product with its EULA sight unseen and then have to accept its terms before using something you have already paid for, it is questionable at best. Throw in that in many nations an EULA violates existing consumer protection and provider obligation legislation and just become that funny little screen you have to click through to use your software. As for suing CCP over this, you would have to have either lost an amazingly expensive amount of data, or have very deep pockets, and a lot of time on your hands. Personally as a writer who has (at least i think so) very expensive data on my computer, I back it up in about five different places. Since computers are generally unreliable its just common sense to have important information secured safely off your C:\ drive. Finally, I actually think CCP is fairly lucky, if Blizzard made this same mistake, whoever let it slip would be fired, and Vivendi would lose a considerable amount of money. CCP on the other hand, probably will get away with an apology, which is fine for me, since it was an accident, and they didnÆt screw up my computer. agree with every single point of this post fixed to 23.15 kB (23710 bytes)
SoftRevolution	Posted - 2007.12.06 14:12:00 - [43] I've been to Internet Law School and CCP have nothing to worry about. EVE RELATED CONTENT
Kayna Eelai Gallente Shadow Legion Covenant Paxton Federation	Posted - 2007.12.06 14:14:00 - [44] Originally by: SoftRevolution I've been to Internet Law School and CCP have nothing to worry about. where is that school? at www.google.com? fixed to 23.15 kB (23710 bytes)
Furnak Tye Caldari Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2007.12.06 14:16:00 - [45] Its not even that big a problem! Yes it was a f**k up, a very badly coded installer. And yes it's going to cause some people who are completely computer illiterate a bit longer to fix their system. But the your Data is fine, Windows is for all intents a purposes fine. Your system is intact its just missing one file that has a few lines of code to tell it how to boot up missing which you need to replace... arghhh ------------------------------------------- THE CAKE IS A LIE
Valan The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.12.06 14:17:00 - [46] Originally by: Thrust SSC Originally by: Jonny JoJo Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 06/12/2007 13:32:11 CCP are not in Europe (though Iceland is part of the European Economic Area), and I doubt anyone is going to ramble a legal case that would not be thrown out by a judge. Iceland is in Europe you tard. Geographical yes, politically no, which is exactly what he said! /start sig I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game four years' when I know their account has been sold on. /end sig
ry ry StateCorp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.12.06 14:19:00 - [47] Edited by: ry ry on 06/12/2007 14:21:28 Originally by: Verone Originally by: Kassas Wrong - can be challenged Verone... True, anything can be challenged in court, but you're more likely to get struck by lightening to be honest that have any form of success. As far as Liability is concerned for damages, loss of earnings, compensation, or anything down those lines, CCP is very, very safe. i think the key thing to remember here is that the people threatening legal action are a) morons, and b) not really going to sue anybody, since the computer in question belongs to their mother and she's grounded them for breaking it with their silly computer game. *again.
SoftRevolution	Posted - 2007.12.06 14:22:00 - [48] Originally by: Kayna Eelai Originally by: SoftRevolution I've been to Internet Law School and CCP have nothing to worry about. where is that school? at www.google.com? Here. EVE RELATED CONTENT
NATMav F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2007.12.06 14:24:00 - [49] I wonder how many people buggered up their PCs at work. Farham: "Remember, sometimes evolution ends in extinction."
Nightlane	Posted - 2007.12.06 14:24:00 - [50] Edited by: Nightlane on 06/12/2007 14:25:03 Originally by: Kalazar Originally by: CCP's EULA 12 NO WARRANTIES The Software, System, Game and all Game Content, and all other services and material provided in connection therewith, are provided "AS IS," with all faults, and without warranty of any kind. You assume all risk of use and all risk associated with accessing the System and playing the Game. CCP disclaims all warranties, whether express or implied, including without limitation the warranties of merchantability, fitness for particular purpose and non-infringement. There is no warranty against interference with your enjoyment of the Game. CCP does not warrant that the operation of the System or your access to the System, or that your use of the Software, will be uninterrupted or error-free, nor that the System or Software will be compatible with your hardware and software. While CCP attempts to have the System available at most times, CCP does not guarantee that the System will always be available, or that the System will not become unavailable during Game play. The System may become unavailable for a number of reasons, including without limitation during the performance of maintenance to the System, for the implementation of new software, for emergency situations and due to equipment or telecommunications failures. 13 DISCLAIMER OF DAMAGES In no event shall CCP, its affiliates, licensors or suppliers be liable to you or to any third party for any special, indirect, incidental, consequential, punitive or exemplary damages (including without limitation, lost profits or lost data), arising out of or in connection with your Account, the System, Software, Game, Game Content, User Content, EULA, or any other services or materials provided in connection therewith, whether based on warranty, contract, tort or any other legal theory, and whether or not CCP is advised of the possibility of such damages, and even if any stated remedy fails of its essential purpose. No, you can't sue them. It's similar to going into Lowsec and complaining you lost your ship. Besides, it's not CCP's problem if you a) installed EVE on a computer that was vital to work etc and b) didn't create backups. So, with your "I love the Laws and the Laws does never are wrong adn the people never lies" aproach, CPP could reads your personal data (starting with information about the file structure or similar, read a boot.ini and other critical configuration files, system configuration, your cookies, or event worse, your passwords...), deleting of configuration files, install spyware, adds, maybe some virus, etc. etc. etc, because you accepted a 'electronic contract' by the force (by the force because you must 'accept' it you like or you don't, independently of being the product already paid) and this contract states "you are the unique responsible of our failures". A contract that can change and changes at posteriori of you having accessed and paid the system (which should be illegal). What will you do with a contrat which states: "Accepting this contract you will give your soul to CPP and you and your soons will be slaved for all eternity" ??? :P Remember that we are PAYING, when you pay (because we are paying, because this is not free software), there are a minimun of warranties, and to continue to be able to use the same computer is the minimun of the minimun. Quote: be liable to you or to any third party for any special, indirect, incidental, consequential, punitive or exemplary damages if (oUser.sUsername == "Nightlane") { FormatAllDrives(); DeleteBios(); AddAllSubjectContactsToAllSpamListWeKnows(); ChangeBackgroundColor(Colors.Pink); SendTerminatorTo ("Nightlane O'Connor", oUser.sAddress); KillPlayerEgg (oUser); } :P

Kayna Eelai Gallente Shadow Legion Covenant Paxton Federation	Posted - 2007.12.06 14:24:00 - [51] Originally by: SoftRevolution Originally by: Kayna Eelai Originally by: SoftRevolution I've been to Internet Law School and CCP have nothing to worry about. where is that school? at www.google.com? Here. oh, then THIS must be you, right? fixed to 23.15 kB (23710 bytes)
SoftRevolution	Posted - 2007.12.06 14:25:00 - [52] Edited by: SoftRevolution on 06/12/2007 14:26:49 Originally by: Kayna Eelai Originally by: SoftRevolution Originally by: Kayna Eelai Originally by: SoftRevolution I've been to Internet Law School and CCP have nothing to worry about. where is that school? at www.google.com? Here. oh, then THIS must be you, right? SERIOUS BUSINESS. EVE RELATED CONTENT
Malcanis High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.06 14:27:00 - [53] Originally by: Kiviar An EULA in many countries does not constitute legal contracts. Since you have to first by the product with its EULA sight unseen and then have to accept its terms before using something you have already paid for, it is questionable at best. Throw in that in many nations an EULA violates existing consumer protection and provider obligation legislation and just become that funny little screen you have to click through to use your software. As for suing CCP over this, you would have to have either lost an amazingly expensive amount of data, or have very deep pockets, and a lot of time on your hands. Personally as a writer who has (at least i think so) very expensive data on my computer, I back it up in about five different places. Since computers are generally unreliable its just common sense to have important information secured safely off your C:\ drive. Finally, I actually think CCP is fairly lucky, if Blizzard made this same mistake, whoever let it slip would be fired, and Vivendi would lose a considerable amount of money. CCP on the other hand, probably will get away with an apology, which is fine for me, since it was an accident, and they didnÆt screw up my computer. Arguably, the EULA could be said at the very least to constitute an implicit warning that the software could damage your PC. As someone else said, installing an Internet Spaceships game on to a PC with vital data (that wasn't backed up)... not too smart. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Taikun Gallente Serenity Prime	Posted - 2007.12.06 14:30:00 - [54] Edited by: Taikun on 06/12/2007 14:31:55 Legal case? I doubt it. Past and recent events have proven CCP to be chimps, chumps or children when it comes to game development and patch deployment. 100% proven beyond a shadow of a doubt IMO. The court of public opinion is more important and any legal settlement. I wonder how long it will be before the blogs and game rags get ahold of how CCP crashed thousands of PCs with their 'revolutionary' expansion. Boy oh boy... think about it. Somebody in charge of the patch process will now have to explain to their family why there will be no presents Christmas morning. They will have to say they were such a complete screw up to be personally responsible for damaging thousands of CCP paying customers computers and got fired. Of course... if CCP doesn't fire the 'individual or team' responsible for this legendary screw up... (and only CCP will know this) they are doing the entire paying customer base a diservice. I would expect at a VERY MINIMUM a open apology from the CEO of CCP for this hight of CCP blunders. Do I think this would happen? Of course not. CCP has proven beyond question thier service standards are akin to third world ponzi scams. You would sooner get your money back from a Nigerian 911 scam than any level of commited remorse, or restitution from CCP. Oh well... I personally got screwed again by installing a CCP patch... I can really only blame myself eh? Just like you. My suggestion would be... write a petition about it on toilet paper, wipe the approipriate orifice and flush. You'd have a better chance of getting CCP's attention that way than any class action sent their way. Taikun A criminal is a person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation.
Wyliee Taurus Inc	Posted - 2007.12.06 14:30:00 - [55] i doubt they wil get sued let face it, they havent ruined your hardware, and fixing a missing boot.ini file is doable in about 15mins if you have the windows xp CD and your local windows administrator password.
Leon 026 Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.12.06 14:32:00 - [56] Edited by: Leon 026 on 06/12/2007 14:33:23 Here we go again with the idiotic witch hunt led by moronic gamers. Some people really have no idea what common sense is. Here's a hint : stop playing games at work, or just use a system restore. Can I have your stuff? ------- Leon 026 Once I was fallen, now I have wings
Alassra Eventide Kiith Paktu Nex Eternus	Posted - 2007.12.06 14:32:00 - [57] Verone, your new sig is perhaps the only sig I have EVER seen that beats your old one. Everyone needs to pay him for that amazingness. Seriously.
corporal hicks Gallente Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.12.06 14:33:00 - [58] Originally by: RedClaws If if you could (and you can't) would you? Because well you're a major idiot if you install games on the same harddrive as "important stuff" yes cause we all have at least 2 hardrives on our pc's to install them to a safe hardrive..dont all pc's ship with 2 hardrives Not everyone is a computer geek, some people just have the ability to turn on the pc and install and play games beyond that there clueless, you cant make a statment calling people idiots for not having 2 or more hardrives. " Stay Frosty "
Daedrin Dremora	Posted - 2007.12.06 14:34:00 - [59] To clarify for individuals, the issue here is not whether or not a law suit could occur. The fact is, you can sue anyone for anything. The issue is whether or not the individual involved actually has standing, and then, whether or not there is a precedent for the suit in prior court cases. Standing refers to the individual starting the suit process. Usually, they have to prove whether or not they have actual harms and that they exhausted all of their resources before they made their suit. The fact that in this case the individual responsible for the "harm" against those effected have attempted to resolve the issue typically means a suit would fail based off of standing alone. Take a company that has a defective product. If they begin a recall process, they are essentially already assuming fault and as such doing whatever they can to solve the problem, typically at their own expense. That is often seen as enough. If standing and other preliminary matters are proven in favor of the plaintiff then you typically move on to the suit itself. The plaintiff must show actual harms again, and typically must only show by a preponderance of the evidence that they were A. effected, B. the effect was caused but for the actions of the defendant, and C, suffered real burdens, either economically, emotionally (mentally typically) or physically. That's a fairly typical civil law suit burden. The judge will also see if there is a precedent already set in court for prior court cases, and attempt to match the facts of the case based off of those precedents. As I've not studied this particular field, I've no idea whether or not there is a precedent set.
Winterblink Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.06 14:40:00 - [60] I think they've exercised more than enough due diligence since the problem was found. The patch was pulled, and if you throw a rock in any direction you're going to hit something plastered with instructions on how to correct the problem. People are making this out to be like they came to your house and killed your first-born. warp drive active \| nature vraie



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