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Is CCP going to be the target of some serious legal allegations?

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Aldred Kes Minmatar Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.12.06 16:00:00 - [91] Originally by: Thebro Nobrunder You might as well sue microsoft. Who would ever create an OS where some random piece of software could destroy a vital system file? Every OS except MSoft is immune from this sort of thing. Ya, you keep on thinking that. A program run with admin level privilages can wreak havoc on any OS. Here's my 2 cents. 1. Can CCP Be Sued outside of iceland: Yes, first the product is sold world wide, mor eimportantly they have offices in London and Atlanta giving them physical presense in the UK and USA. 2. Would you win: Maybe, depends on the judge or jury, also I may be wrong but I think the UK uses the loser pays court costs system, so if you loose you will have to pay both your court costs and CCP's. 3. Would you even want to try unless you are a lawyer with a lot of free time: No, Because of the limited amount of damages you could possibly get you'll have a hard time finding a lawyer to take the case based on being paid off the damages awarded, so you'd probably be on retainer or standard hourly billing. Also the case won't even see the inside of an american court room until some time circa 2010-2011, add to that CCP's ability to sandbag you, and making you take time out of your life to go to wherever they summon you to to be deposed. So if you want to spend years of your life, untold thousands of dollars on legal representation, and the possibilty that if you loose they will counter sue for to recover their costs, sure go ahead.
Naridos Caldari IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2007.12.06 16:02:00 - [92] Originally by: lolzor For al we know the removal of the boot.ini is a feature, the fact that you installed this software makes you liable for the damages caused. Absolutely. The fact that it was your fault for downloading the patch to begin with is your own damn fault. Quit with the ***ing about lawsuits. It is not CCPs fault for this because it was caused by you agreeing that any software or releases of CCP are not liable for any damage done to your computer, softwar, or OS for that matter. Quote:** Pandas are the PWN of Eve. Pandas!
Marcus Ailichi Lonely Maple Prospecting Group	Posted - 2007.12.06 16:03:00 - [93] I'm sorry, but anyone who even THINKS about suing CCP over this needs to take a chill pill, and if it doesn't work just self destruct please.
Kiviar Caldari Vice-Presidential Action Rangers	Posted - 2007.12.06 16:05:00 - [94] Originally by: Marcus Ailichi I'm sorry, but anyone who even THINKS about suing CCP over this needs to take a chill pill, and if it doesn't work just self destruct please. Shh, thats rational thought. Rational people don't post on forums. ---
Daedrin Dremora	Posted - 2007.12.06 16:09:00 - [95] Originally by: Volkovic This "situation" has nothing to do with "company" or corporate law. All Eve users are "consumers" (I will stick here to the EU region, which has - generally speaking - very similar statues concerning consumer protection). Since consumers are generally protected by special laws, these laws have to be applied regarding the relationship between CCP and the affected user. Taking this into account, it can generally be said, that the so called "EULA" is not going to hold up in any court I have been in or know of. This takes not into account the other valid arguments made in this tread (already paid product e.g.). All codes of law include some minimal protection for consumers, which cannot be "overruled" by any contract, especially not by some EULA. From a legal perspective this could be an interestig case, it contains some interesting "first timers", for example the seat of CCP is in Iceland, the affected user is not (the majority at least), so issues regarding the place of venue are to be taken into account. By what kind of contract is the relationship between CCP snd user is governed by? It surely is not an license agreement (even if it is dubbed this way), more like some rental agreement. I will stop know, If a consumer sues a company or organization, CCP in this case, then the judge looks toward precedents set on corporations before. I'm not talking about administrative law FOR corporations, I'm talking about laws regarding how corporations should act, behave, reprieve, help, create ethical guidelines, etc. Laws regarding consumer interaction and protection with corporations would fit under this definition as the behavior set forth in any code of law. Your first sentence is wrong, and your second is merely splitting hairs. Further, your second paragraph is also wrong.
Swift Wind 6rasshopper Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.06 16:10:00 - [96] Originally by: Tiger313 Actually the patch didn't damage anything other then it deleted a file which your computer needs to reboot. There's a very easy solution to it: just start up with the windows cd in your cdrom player and fix. No biggie really. People whining about how they "lost" homework and/or work are being dumbarses: if you can get on here to whine then you can get to your homework or work files too. Simple. Shyte happens, you know. No need to be an arse over it. Exactly... Anywhere, Anytime.
Daedrin Dremora	Posted - 2007.12.06 16:13:00 - [97] Originally by: Naridos Originally by: lolzor For al we know the removal of the boot.ini is a feature, the fact that you installed this software makes you liable for the damages caused. Absolutely. The fact that it was your fault for downloading the patch to begin with is your own damn fault. Quit with the *****ing about lawsuits. It is not CCPs fault for this because it was caused by you agreeing that any software or releases of CCP are not liable for any damage done to your computer, softwar, or OS for that matter. Unfortunately, people don't realize what the definition of liability or fault is. It requires a critical thinking process that people who were detrimentally effected by this problem don't have.
parrowdox Caldari Vitai Lampada	Posted - 2007.12.06 16:15:00 - [98] i support CCP, it was a mistake yes but for CCP to go under would be the last of my wishes and i cant even play with the new graphics, im happy as they wre so this is how i will continue :D - BoxFresh Killer - Vitai Lampada - Mercs for Hire
Jenna Shame	Posted - 2007.12.06 16:17:00 - [99] Originally by: Syri Taneka Edited by: Syri Taneka on 06/12/2007 13:40:55 My question is... why does an OS allow a third party program to delete its BOOT file? If anyone should be sued, it's Microsoft, for not properly protecting their OS files. Also, yeah, anything and everything you install is at your own risk. If you can't be bothered to properly back up your files, it's your fault, no one else's. And if people really do have EVE installed on work PCs and now can't use them... have fun explaining that to your boss. Take pictures. CCP is in so deep with Microsoft I wouldn't be shocked if this was just a ploy to get Vista some good press finally. Surprised yes, but shocked no
Drasked North Face Force	Posted - 2007.12.06 16:18:00 - [100] Originally by: Daedrin Dremora Originally by: Naridos Originally by: lolzor For al we know the removal of the boot.ini is a feature, the fact that you installed this software makes you liable for the damages caused. Absolutely. The fact that it was your fault for downloading the patch to begin with is your own damn fault. Quit with the *****ing about lawsuits. It is not CCPs fault for this because it was caused by you agreeing that any software or releases of CCP are not liable for any damage done to your computer, softwar, or OS for that matter. Unfortunately, people don't realize what the definition of liability or fault is. It requires a critical thinking process that people who were detrimentally effected by this problem don't have. This.
FHPhantom Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.12.06 16:22:00 - [101] Edited by: FHPhantom on 06/12/2007 16:23:14 Edited by: FHPhantom on 06/12/2007 16:22:39 Originally by: Ardemire Or do they have class action scramblers? Will the eula protect them? Because personaly I would hate to see CCP go under, even if this is possibly the biggest MMO botch ever. thats why from reuters to every loacal media org have been contacted. No they cant sweep it away now or ban us paid players for speaking truth this will only aid our defense of this invasion of privacy. and destruction of our pc's and lost data pictures that will never be replaced.
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.12.06 16:23:00 - [102] yes yes! lets sue ccp for a 233kb txt file they deleted by accident! I need that extra 233kb on my harddrive for very small ** and of course we will have to prove none of us has ever made a typo, because otherwise our case is sunk Originally by:** Cecil Montague They should change that warning on entering low sec to: "Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
Daedrin Dremora	Posted - 2007.12.06 16:25:00 - [103] Originally by: FHPhantom Edited by: FHPhantom on 06/12/2007 16:23:14 Edited by: FHPhantom on 06/12/2007 16:22:39 Originally by: Ardemire Or do they have class action scramblers? Will the eula protect them? Because personaly I would hate to see CCP go under, even if this is possibly the biggest MMO botch ever. thats why from reuters to every loacal media org have been contacted. No they cant sweep it away now or ban us paid players for speaking truth this will only aid our defense of this invasion of privacy. and destruction of our pc's and lost data pictures that will never be replaced. See the post below yours.
FHPhantom Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.12.06 16:27:00 - [104] Originally by: FHPhantom Edited by: FHPhantom on 06/12/2007 16:23:14 Edited by: FHPhantom on 06/12/2007 16:22:39 Originally by: Ardemire Or do they have class action scramblers? Will the eula protect them? Because personaly I would hate to see CCP go under, even if this is possibly the biggest MMO botch ever. thats why from reuters to every loacal media org have been contacted. No they cant sweep it away now or ban us paid players for speaking truth this will only aid our defense of this invasion of privacy. and destruction of our pc's and lost data pictures that will never be replaced. same aholes like u said the holocost never exisited. I'm serious as a heart attack we will get answers and have the authorties investigate to see if anything else was compromised. no go do your homework noob. Don't assume every player here is a snot nosed kid.
Apocryphai Caldari	Posted - 2007.12.06 16:28:00 - [105] Originally by: FHPhantom thats why from reuters to every loacal media org have been contacted. No they cant sweep it away now or ban us paid players for speaking truth this will only aid our defense of this invasion of privacy. and destruction of our pc's and lost data pictures that will never be replaced. ROFL do tell us what Reuters and "every loacal media org" said in reply to you! Can't wait to see this in the newspapers... oh wait, they'll just laugh at you. ________________________________________________________________ Originally by: Victor Valka What the skull-chick said.
Verone	Posted - 2007.12.06 16:29:00 - [106] Originally by: Tortun Nahme and of course we will have to prove none of us has ever made a typo, because otherwise our case is sunk I jhave nevre maed a typo inm y lief! >>> TRIBUTE TO A FALLEN WINGMAN <<<
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.12.06 16:29:00 - [107] Originally by: FHPhantom Originally by: FHPhantom Edited by: FHPhantom on 06/12/2007 16:23:14 Edited by: FHPhantom on 06/12/2007 16:22:39 Originally by: Ardemire Or do they have class action scramblers? Will the eula protect them? Because personaly I would hate to see CCP go under, even if this is possibly the biggest MMO botch ever. thats why from reuters to every loacal media org have been contacted. No they cant sweep it away now or ban us paid players for speaking truth this will only aid our defense of this invasion of privacy. and destruction of our pc's and lost data pictures that will never be replaced. same aholes like u said the holocost never exisited. I'm serious as a heart attack we will get answers and have the authorties investigate to see if anything else was compromised. no go do your homework noob. Don't assume every player here is a snot nosed kid. lmao trolling yourself is rarely effective, 1/10 Originally by: Cecil Montague They should change that warning on entering low sec to: "Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
FHPhantom Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.12.06 16:30:00 - [108] Originally by: Apocryphai Originally by: FHPhantom thats why from reuters to every loacal media org have been contacted. No they cant sweep it away now or ban us paid players for speaking truth this will only aid our defense of this invasion of privacy. and destruction of our pc's and lost data pictures that will never be replaced. ROFL do tell us what Reuters and "every loacal media org" said in reply to you! Can't wait to see this in the newspapers... oh wait, they'll just laugh at you. not to me ahole im not powerfull enough to some of my freinds you wont be privy to the text.
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.12.06 16:30:00 - [109] Edited by: Rells on 06/12/2007 16:34:47 Edited by: Rells on 06/12/2007 16:32:36 Ridiculous. If this was possible Microsoft would have been out of business long ago. People are just posturing to prove that Internet Anonymity makes some people complete morons. Not only would you have to prove that you lost something, which they could torpedo easily with the fix procedures, you would have to prove that they did it through gross negligence rather than the more likely scenario that a typo such as './' should have been used rather than '/'. Numerous superior courts in the EU and USA have concluded that software bugs that are correctible without loss can not be considered grounds for damages. Originally by: FHPhantom Originally by: Apocryphai Originally by: FHPhantom thats why from reuters to every loacal media org have been contacted. No they cant sweep it away now or ban us paid players for speaking truth this will only aid our defense of this invasion of privacy. and destruction of our pc's and lost data pictures that will never be replaced. ROFL do tell us what Reuters and "every loacal media org" said in reply to you! Can't wait to see this in the newspapers... oh wait, they'll just laugh at you. not to me ahole im not powerfull enough to some of my freinds you wont be privy to the text. Get off the computer and go back to primary school before your parents catch you. Your statements are so far off reality that you are just making a fool of yourself. Four years is long enough to leave the corp interface broken!
Tiberious Marz Industrial Services INC	Posted - 2007.12.06 16:32:00 - [110] So are we getting a christmas gift this year?
Agguire	Posted - 2007.12.06 16:34:00 - [111] Couple years ago Shadowbane had a patch that did a similar thing to PC's. Not sure on the scale.
Kharadran Sullath Caldari Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.12.06 16:34:00 - [112] It's the end of the wo-orld as-we-know-it! It's the end of the wo-orld as-we-know-i-it! ------ Originally by: Graveyard Tan I call bull** and troll. If you are deaf**, how are you even able to read this or type replies?
Valan The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.12.06 16:35:00 - [113] I have a solution. Give out free play time just as a good will gesture. Take a canvas of all unhappy people who want to sue and compensate them for time their computer was offline. Then delete their characters and ban the IPs. This will sa***uard from non-technical people suing them in the future. I laugh at people who think media organisations care about a handful of nerds struggling to connect to a game. It'll make the gaming sites. Can't see the BBC running it as a serious story. /start sig I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game four years' when I know their account has been sold on. /end sig
Tyralon	Posted - 2007.12.06 16:35:00 - [114] It's obviously unfortunate that some people have lost files and money because of the patch, but people should think carefully about it before suing. If CCP was made bankrupt because of legal action and we all lost Eve it would be an even greater tragedy. I doubt there are many Eve users who lost enough due to the patch to want this to happen.
FHPhantom Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.12.06 16:36:00 - [115] Originally by: Rells Ridiculous. If this was possible Microsoft would have been out of business long ago. People are just posturing to prove that Internet Anonymity makes some people complete morons. Not only would you have to prove that you lost something, which they could torpedo easily with the fix procedures, you would have to prove that they did it through gross negligence rather than the more likely scenario that a typo such as './' should have been used rather than '/'. Numerous superior courts in the EU have concluded that software bugs that are correctible without loss can not be considered grounds for damages. no one is pointing fingers. Ask yourself this is you employ a bus driver and he comes to work and crashes the bus and kills everyone who is responsable. you make ccp proud you loyal as can be, yet u pay them. Your a bastian of CCP's integrity. Youralso not thinking this hurt alot of players we pay just as you. And why is that so hard for u to understand. So next time you goto the store and buy something tell them to break first before they give it to you and say nothing. The ginger magician scandel, to the stolen bpu's etc to now, what next ok, can we just know if its safe to play this anymore. a formal investigation is nessasary before we all get fucccccccckeed here.
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.12.06 16:36:00 - [116] we should sue the NYT for this! I mean they did an article when the patch was being released but didn't tell us it would be harmfull! Originally by: Cecil Montague They should change that warning on entering low sec to: "Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
Nephilyte	Posted - 2007.12.06 16:37:00 - [117] Originally by: Verone Originally by: EULA 13. DISCLAIMER OF DAMAGES In no event shall CCP, its affiliates, licensors or suppliers be liable to you or to any third party for any special, indirect, incidental, consequential, punitive or exemplary damages (including without limitation, lost profits or lost data), arising out of or in connection with your Account, the System, Software, Game, Game Content, User Content, EULA, or any other services or materials provided in connection therewith, whether based on warranty, contract, tort or any other legal theory, and whether or not CCP is advised of the possibility of such damages, and even if any stated remedy fails of its essential purpose. 14. LIMITATION OF LIABILITY Except as set forth below, CCP's maximum liability for any and all claims arising out of or in connection with your Account, the Software, System, Game, Game Content, User Content, EULA, and any other services or materials provided in connection therewith, shall not exceed an amount equal to the value of one (1) month's subscription fees. Nuff Said. Your sig won the argument lock stock and barrel. NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM...
FHPhantom Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.12.06 16:43:00 - [118] Originally by: FHPhantom Originally by: Rells The burden of gross negligence is quite high and a likely typo would not qualify. This is analogous to a bulb blowing on your car because it was faulty and you knowing that the bulb was blown and having a fix chose not to employ it and got in a car accident. they paying you to debunk this or not rells. bro dont know you from the man in the moon but if you think this was nothing you have some bad ethics. or mayby get beat up alott in school. Sorry bro but when im wronged or others I stand up for the truth and fact, not your bs fictional attempt to assighn yourself official CCP debunker, cause you think it will get you respect or a free month play.
Razer Morphis Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.12.06 16:44:00 - [119] This is an EPIC PR failure, yes. This is an EPIC programming failure, yes. Every detail will be swept to under a very deep Icelandic rug. Most likely. Move along, nothing to see, bite your tongue and proceed... ----------------------
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.12.06 16:44:00 - [120] new desktop, thank you crumplecorn, its epic lol Originally by: Cecil Montague They should change that warning on entering low sec to: "Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."

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