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shinsushi	Posted - 2007.12.11 13:10:00 - [151] Originally by: Erotic Irony somewhere lost in these pages of pyramid quotes someone summarize what the vaga nerf looks like from shins angle Couldn't resists I guess.. Hi my names Erotic Irony, I have nothing useful to add at all, so I will simply reply with stupid 1 liners or character attacks. Kthnxbye. An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument.
Ione Hunt 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.12.11 13:15:00 - [152] Originally by: shinsushi Originally by: Erotic Irony somewhere lost in these pages of pyramid quotes someone summarize what the vaga nerf looks like from shins angle Couldn't resists I guess.. Hi my names Erotic Irony, I have nothing useful to add at all, so I will simply reply with stupid 1 liners or character attacks. Kthnxbye. Dude, you're the last person who should say anything about character attacks. Just check out how much of the things you wrote in your answers to my posts is censored _______________
Erotic Irony 0bsession	Posted - 2007.12.11 13:16:00 - [153] Originally by: shinsushi Originally by: Erotic Irony somewhere lost in these pages of pyramid quotes someone summarize what the vaga nerf looks like from shins angle Couldn't resists I guess.. Hi my names Erotic Irony, I have nothing useful to add at all, so I will simply reply with stupid 1 liners or character attacks. Kthnxbye. I never said that tbqh besides you like to talk, enlighten us what the solution is ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
JaxxFunk Minmatar	Posted - 2007.12.11 13:17:00 - [154] oh my word... This thread is ridiculous, please make it stop. The vaga is probably the worst HAC of the lot (poor DPS, poor Tank, poor number of hits due to tracking). -----------END OF THREAD----------- You aint seen me...right
Victor Ivanov Minmatar The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.12.11 13:19:00 - [155] Originally by: JaxxFunk oh my word... This thread is ridiculous, please make it stop. The vaga is probably the worst HAC of the lot (poor DPS, poor Tank, poor number of hits due to tracking). -----------END OF THREAD----------- Quoted. dramatic silence For truth. ----------------------
Darth Pimp Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.11 13:19:00 - [156] Vagabond is probably the most balanced ship ingame. It's a nice heavy tackler and anti-support ship. Nothing else. I laugh at those Damage calculation in that thread. You guys should sometimes undock and stop fighting on paper. Thread is over. End of discussion. -- "Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." Antoine de Saint-Exupery (1900 - 1944)
Odium47	Posted - 2007.12.11 13:22:00 - [157] Please STOOOOOP stupid EFT fitters, go in game and play. I've had it... ...and when you look at a kill board, please see if the kill is made alone or in a gang !
Captain Dralisz	Posted - 2007.12.11 13:22:00 - [158] Edited by: Captain Dralisz on 11/12/2007 13:22:22 Originally by: Darth Pimp Vagabond is probably the most balanced ship ingame. It's a nice heavy tackler and anti-support ship. Nothing else. I laugh at those Damage calculation in that thread. You guys should sometimes undock and stop fighting on paper. Thread is over. End of discussion. With no paper: My ishtar is started killing a rat it taked 30 sec to kill a BC for the Ogres and a Vaga comed here and killed the same type bc under 5 sec.... lol ye paper... In game the vaga more powerful than in paper
JaxxFunk Minmatar	Posted - 2007.12.11 13:24:00 - [159] Originally by: Captain Dralisz Edited by: Captain Dralisz on 11/12/2007 13:22:22 Originally by: Darth Pimp Vagabond is probably the most balanced ship ingame. It's a nice heavy tackler and anti-support ship. Nothing else. I laugh at those Damage calculation in that thread. You guys should sometimes undock and stop fighting on paper. Thread is over. End of discussion. With no paper: My ishtar is started killing a rat it taked 30 sec to kill a BC for the Ogres and a Vaga comed here and killed the same type bc under 5 sec.... lol ye paper... In game the vaga more powerful than in paper Oh my god... a) He had more SP than you b) He had more damage mods than you c) He had more RL skill than you d) You suck You aint seen me...right
Darth Pimp Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.11 13:25:00 - [160] Originally by: Captain Dralisz My ishtar is started killing a rat it taked 30 sec to kill a BC for the Ogres and a Vaga comed here and killed the same type bc under 5 sec.... lol ye paper... In game the vaga more powerful than in paper Maybe you should switch the Drone Damage type, like the vaga probably did with their ammo? Stop posting that kind of bs dude. You have obviously no clue what you are talking about. -- "Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." Antoine de Saint-Exupery (1900 - 1944)
Captain Dralisz	Posted - 2007.12.11 13:25:00 - [161] Originally by: JaxxFunk Originally by: Captain Dralisz Edited by: Captain Dralisz on 11/12/2007 13:22:22 Originally by: Darth Pimp Vagabond is probably the most balanced ship ingame. It's a nice heavy tackler and anti-support ship. Nothing else. I laugh at those Damage calculation in that thread. You guys should sometimes undock and stop fighting on paper. Thread is over. End of discussion. With no paper: My ishtar is started killing a rat it taked 30 sec to kill a BC for the Ogres and a Vaga comed here and killed the same type bc under 5 sec.... lol ye paper... In game the vaga more powerful than in paper Oh my god... a) He had more SP than you b) He had more damage mods than you c) He had more RL skill than you d) You suck My drone skills nearly the best... oh please
JaxxFunk Minmatar	Posted - 2007.12.11 13:27:00 - [162] Originally by: Darth Pimp Originally by: Captain Dralisz My ishtar is started killing a rat it taked 30 sec to kill a BC for the Ogres and a Vaga comed here and killed the same type bc under 5 sec.... lol ye paper... In game the vaga more powerful than in paper Maybe you should switch the Drone Damage type, like the vaga probably did with their ammo? Stop posting that kind of bs dude. You have obviously no clue what you are talking about. and this You aint seen me...right
Captain Dralisz	Posted - 2007.12.11 13:28:00 - [163] Ask the ccp to make a test room for 1vs1 with lvl5 skilled probe pilotes to test the ships and etc. u will see then vaga is better than all.
JaxxFunk Minmatar	Posted - 2007.12.11 13:29:00 - [164] Originally by: Captain Dralisz Ask the ccp to make a test room for 1vs1 with lvl5 skilled probe pilotes to test the ships and etc. u will see then vaga is better than all. No. You aint seen me...right
Captain Dralisz	Posted - 2007.12.11 13:30:00 - [165] Originally by: JaxxFunk Originally by: Darth Pimp Originally by: Captain Dralisz My ishtar is started killing a rat it taked 30 sec to kill a BC for the Ogres and a Vaga comed here and killed the same type bc under 5 sec.... lol ye paper... In game the vaga more powerful than in paper Maybe you should switch the Drone Damage type, like the vaga probably did with their ammo? Stop posting that kind of bs dude. You have obviously no clue what you are talking about. and this pfff... Iam saw what i saw!!! I killed the serpentis rats so they are have less kinetic and thermal resist.
Damned Force	Posted - 2007.12.11 13:32:00 - [166] Originally by: Odium47 Please STOOOOOP stupid EFT fitters, go in game and play. I've had it... ...and when you look at a kill board, please see if the kill is made alone or in a gang ! 1st.... i think a made more kills in a Vaga than u can count 2nd.... yes mostly in gangs, in gangs where 70% of the ships was Vaga's. Donno if u realized, but solopvp is very rear. And a Vaga is much powerful in gangs. More powerful than alone. It can tackle the enemy easy, and in gang u have enough dps to kill most enemies. The annoying on the Vaga is the versatility of the ship... Tackling, killing and safe. In worst case u still can run away. The Hyena would make Vaga's falling more, but if u compare just the HAC's than the Vaga and Sacri are the clear winners....
JaxxFunk Minmatar	Posted - 2007.12.11 13:32:00 - [167] Originally by: Captain Dralisz Originally by: JaxxFunk Originally by: Darth Pimp Originally by: Captain Dralisz My ishtar is started killing a rat it taked 30 sec to kill a BC for the Ogres and a Vaga comed here and killed the same type bc under 5 sec.... lol ye paper... In game the vaga more powerful than in paper Maybe you should switch the Drone Damage type, like the vaga probably did with their ammo? Stop posting that kind of bs dude. You have obviously no clue what you are talking about. and this pfff... Iam saw what i saw!!! I killed the serpentis rats so they are have less kinetic and thermal resist. And now in English... You aint seen me...right
Matrixcvd Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.11 13:37:00 - [168] Originally by: shinsushi OH there is a gigantic difference netweem loosing something and loosing nothing. LEts say a vaga has 10 encounters where it looses (i.e.runs)... no biggie, you still have the vaga. Now reverse it, 10 times loosing against a vaga means loosing 10 ships.... If you cannot see the difference there, your bias is getting in the way. Are you counting yourself in the additional 9 encounters? Are you saying you have died 10 times to a solo vag? Who cares what happens after your encounter, not everyone is going to catch on and if they get killed by a solo vaga, they probably would get killed by a solo arbi, ruppy, heron, velator. your looking to right other peoples wrongs. The vaga is a good ship and in the hands of a skilled, merciless pilot it spells utter doom, but then again so would a fork in a fat man's hands at thanksgiving. You need the proper perspective. There are plenty of ways to catch kill and loot a vaga. But if you get caught doing something stupid, boo hoo, you lose
Damned Force	Posted - 2007.12.11 14:14:00 - [169] Originally by: Matrixcvd Originally by: shinsushi OH there is a gigantic difference netweem loosing something and loosing nothing. LEts say a vaga has 10 encounters where it looses (i.e.runs)... no biggie, you still have the vaga. Now reverse it, 10 times loosing against a vaga means loosing 10 ships.... If you cannot see the difference there, your bias is getting in the way. Are you counting yourself in the additional 9 encounters? Are you saying you have died 10 times to a solo vag? Who cares what happens after your encounter, not everyone is going to catch on and if they get killed by a solo vaga, they probably would get killed by a solo arbi, ruppy, heron, velator. your looking to right other peoples wrongs. The vaga is a good ship and in the hands of a skilled, merciless pilot it spells utter doom, but then again so would a fork in a fat man's hands at thanksgiving. You need the proper perspective. There are plenty of ways to catch kill and loot a vaga. But if you get caught doing something stupid, boo hoo, you lose Yes, thats why if 10man Tri gang is around from this 6-7 fly a Vaga :)
Ione Hunt 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.12.11 14:24:00 - [170] Speed is one of the last counters against the blob. If you fight behind enemy lines like a lot of corps do, speed is necessary stand at least a small chance to survive "the blob". What is really funny is that the speed trick works really well against most alliances...since most are to friggin' stupid to adapt and add 1-2 Huginns to their defense gangs, or neut-ships. Instead they come here to whine about how overpowerd the Vaga is instead of using the counters CCP HAS PUT IN PLACE. Hell, you have Vaga pilots like me who TELL you how to beat them, but you still continue to whine because it's probably easier for you to have CCP nerf something than to adapt. Why don't you all go play X3 the singleplayer game. If it gets too hard and you are too lazy to adapt, just enter a cheat code and play in god mode. _______________
Dromidas Shadowmoon Minmatar Uraniumcore	Posted - 2007.12.11 14:30:00 - [171] New kill mails show damage done, my vaga does as much damage as a prophecy tanked to gate gank (ie, permatank turrets AND still kill people). Real DPS is determinable now people, stop using EFT or quickfit or whatever it is newbies use now and go look at the new kill mails.
Odium47	Posted - 2007.12.11 15:51:00 - [172] F1 to F8 lovers whine about vaga because its a lot of trouble to kill. No Rapier/hugin pilots has complained about it or a Curse/Pilgrim. Only people who play pushing F1 to F8 buttons will always complain. Nerfing nano ships or any other ship with special skills that poses difficulties for an easy kill will turn Eve-online in a type of game where 10 people meet another 10 people. Who calls first the target, who tanks better and who has better dps wins ! Even then, they wont be happy. They will try to use cheats.
Plaetean Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.12.11 16:30:00 - [173] Originally by: Quintano Uninstall EFT and play the bloody game. THIS THIS THIS. THIS. If you spent more time actually playing the ******* game maybe you would learn to fly the ships, and stop crying about nerfing them. -----
Zanarkand Gallente Enterprise Estonia	Posted - 2007.12.11 17:20:00 - [174] Edited by: Zanarkand on 11/12/2007 17:21:54 Edited by: Zanarkand on 11/12/2007 17:20:25 Originally by: Darth Pimp Vagabond is probably the most balanced ship ingame. It's a nice heavy tackler and anti-support ship. Nothing else. I laugh at those Damage calculation in that thread. You guys should sometimes undock and stop fighting on paper. Thread is over. End of discussion. ~300 dps at 15km-20km with the best cruiser speed with Dual LSEt2 is... excellent for cruiser sized ships. Hail+RF EMP dps at <5km is very good for a hac as well, don't say vagabond should never be used at 0km... there are plenty of real pvp scenarios where that is perfectly sane. Ability to choose damage types and the speed to escape means it the best choice for roaming (gangs). More and more people train Minmatar cruiser 5... Vagabond is FOTM, we all know what happens to FOTM ships/modules... -2 for vagabond would be fine as a nerf in my opinion... would balance it a bit.
Ione Hunt 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.12.11 17:43:00 - [175] Originally by: Zanarkand Edited by: Zanarkand on 11/12/2007 17:21:54 Edited by: Zanarkand on 11/12/2007 17:20:25 Originally by: Darth Pimp Vagabond is probably the most balanced ship ingame. It's a nice heavy tackler and anti-support ship. Nothing else. I laugh at those Damage calculation in that thread. You guys should sometimes undock and stop fighting on paper. Thread is over. End of discussion. ~300 dps at 15km-20km with the best cruiser speed with Dual LSEt2 is... excellent for cruiser sized ships. Hail+RF EMP dps at <5km is very good for a hac as well, don't say vagabond should never be used at 0km... there are plenty of real pvp scenarios where that is perfectly sane. Ability to choose damage types and the speed to escape means it the best choice for roaming (gangs). More and more people train Minmatar cruiser 5... Vagabond is FOTM, we all know what happens to FOTM ships/modules... -2 for vagabond would be fine as a nerf in my opinion... would balance it a bit. No competent Vaga pilot will EVER enter webrange unless the target is half dead. Hail sounds nice in theory, but unless you're in a huge gang where chances are the target dies fast anyway, you will NOT get in Hail range. A lot of races can chose damage types, so that's not an argument either. The fact that a lot of ppl train for it is largely because they hear how "all Vagas are sooooo cool because they go 12km/s and hit targets up to 30km with barrage will doing great damage". Of course it goes fast, it's the only advantage it has because the tank and damage output are sub-par. People like it because speed is the best counter against blobs, and the blob mentality has increased A LOT in EVE recently. Take away speed, and the blob will forever dominate EVE PVP...good times _______________
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2007.12.11 17:57:00 - [176] /facepalm --- planetary interaction idea!
Odium47	Posted - 2007.12.11 18:00:00 - [177] Dear Zanarkand, The moment I read "Hail" i know you don't have the slightest idea of how to fly a Vaga. I am seriously asking myself if you ever seen one ?
shinsushi	Posted - 2007.12.11 18:10:00 - [178] Edited by: shinsushi on 11/12/2007 18:12:20 Originally by: Ione Hunt Speed is one of the last counters against the blob. If you fight behind enemy lines like a lot of corps do, speed is necessary stand at least a small chance to survive "the blob". What is really funny is that the speed trick works really well against most alliances...since most are to friggin' stupid to adapt and add 1-2 Huginns to their defense gangs, or neut-ships. Instead they come here to whine about how overpowerd the Vaga is instead of using the counters CCP HAS PUT IN PLACE. Hell, you have Vaga pilots like me who TELL you how to beat them, but you still continue to whine because it's probably easier for you to have CCP nerf something than to adapt. Why don't you all go play X3 the singleplayer game. If it gets too hard and you are too lazy to adapt, just enter a cheat code and play in god mode. Hmm... ok so this is what you mean. "Speed allows me to fight very outnumbered, meaning that my one setup is worth 2-3 normal ones. I know this sounds overpowered, but its not, because I say so. The blob is evil, and I am supposed to be able to take out multiple players with my i-win setup. I try to talk about playing a multiplayer game, but *** as soon as people team up and call it blobbing. I will hold on too my overpowered ship as hard as I can, I will call it an anti-blob too much like overpowered ships of the past were. Now I will say, LOL Noobs... there are counters all over, when this has been proven wrong time and again. Being a**abond pilot I forget the only real counter to my speed is 3 EW minnie craft. " How about the EFT whiners, they're premise is that somehow numbers are wrong, and should not be used to MEASURE PERFORMANCE. I know, its strange isn't it? They cannot come up with a decent rebuttal, and I guess figure that saying "get out of EFT" is just that. How about I say, "start using EFT" ? Maybe being ignorant isn't a good postition to take is it? An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2007.12.11 18:17:00 - [179] Originally by: shinsushi Edited by: shinsushi on 11/12/2007 18:12:20 Originally by: Ione Hunt Speed is one of the last counters against the blob. If you fight behind enemy lines like a lot of corps do, speed is necessary stand at least a small chance to survive "the blob". What is really funny is that the speed trick works really well against most alliances...since most are to friggin' stupid to adapt and add 1-2 Huginns to their defense gangs, or neut-ships. Instead they come here to whine about how overpowerd the Vaga is instead of using the counters CCP HAS PUT IN PLACE. Hell, you have Vaga pilots like me who TELL you how to beat them, but you still continue to whine because it's probably easier for you to have CCP nerf something than to adapt. Why don't you all go play X3 the singleplayer game. If it gets too hard and you are too lazy to adapt, just enter a cheat code and play in god mode. Hmm... ok so this is what you mean. "Speed allows me to fight very outnumbered, meaning that my one setup is worth 2-3 normal ones. I know this sounds overpowered, but its not, because I say so. The blob is evil, and I am supposed to be able to take out multiple players with my i-win setup. I try to talk about playing a multiplayer game, but *** as soon as people team up and call it blobbing. I will hold on too my overpowered ship as hard as I can, I will call it an anti-blob too much like overpowered ships of the past were. Now I will say, LOL Noobs... there are counters all over, when this has been proven wrong time and again. Being a**abond pilot I forget the only real counter to my speed is 3 EW minnie craft. " How about the EFT whiners, they're premise is that somehow numbers are wrong, and should not be used to MEASURE PERFORMANCE. I know, its strange isn't it? They cannot come up with a decent rebuttal, and I guess figure that saying "get out of EFT" is just that. How about I say, "start using EFT" ? Maybe being ignorant isn't a good postition to take is it? sorry, but your reply... /facepalm --- planetary interaction idea!
Ione Hunt 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.12.11 18:22:00 - [180] Originally by: shinsushi Edited by: shinsushi on 11/12/2007 18:12:20 Originally by: Ione Hunt Speed is one of the last counters against the blob. If you fight behind enemy lines like a lot of corps do, speed is necessary stand at least a small chance to survive "the blob". What is really funny is that the speed trick works really well against most alliances...since most are to friggin' stupid to adapt and add 1-2 Huginns to their defense gangs, or neut-ships. Instead they come here to whine about how overpowerd the Vaga is instead of using the counters CCP HAS PUT IN PLACE. Hell, you have Vaga pilots like me who TELL you how to beat them, but you still continue to whine because it's probably easier for you to have CCP nerf something than to adapt. Why don't you all go play X3 the singleplayer game. If it gets too hard and you are too lazy to adapt, just enter a cheat code and play in god mode. Hmm... ok so this is what you mean. "Speed allows me to fight very outnumbered, meaning that my one setup is worth 2-3 normal ones. I know this sounds overpowered, but its not, because I say so. The blob is evil, and I am supposed to be able to take out multiple players with my i-win setup. I try to talk about playing a multiplayer game, but *** as soon as people team up and call it blobbing. I will hold on too my overpowered ship as hard as I can, I will call it an anti-blob too much like overpowered ships of the past were. Now I will say, LOL Noobs... there are counters all over, when this has been proven wrong time and again. Being a**abond pilot I forget the only real counter to my speed is 3 EW minnie craft. " How about the EFT whiners, they're premise is that somehow numbers are wrong, and should not be used to MEASURE PERFORMANCE. I know, its strange isn't it? They cannot come up with a decent rebuttal, and I guess figure that saying "get out of EFT" is just that. How about I say, "start using EFT" ? Maybe being ignorant isn't a good postition to take is it? Your paraphrasing of my posts sucks. If you don't acknowledge that there are countless counters even after reading hundreds of help posts, or if you are too stupid to use them, I can't help you. The only thing speed allows the Vaga to do is run. It won't help kill more targets...so no, it's not worth 2-3 ships. EFT is a good program, but it does NOT reflect actual gameplay 100% accurately. It has NOT been proven that the mentioned counters don't work. If they don't work for you, YOU are doing something wrong. But chances are you're just a troll because so far you haven't really brought up a single argument that hasn't been totally destroyed by other posters. Read Grimpak's last post _______________

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