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Boost output for adv.materials

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
Neon Neya	Posted - 2007.12.10 23:04:00 - [1] Edited by: Neon Neya on 10/12/2007 23:05:13 With release of new ships and especially T2BS Jump.Frght. consumption of adv.mat. will rise the 2nd problem is negative ME on all BPC around -5 that rise demand even more. After a while the demand for adv.mat. will be so high which will increase prices for all T2 ships and mods.CCP we need to boost output of adv.mat. in reactors just тo compensate occurrence of these new monsters that you have created aka T2 BS and T2 Jump.Frght.
Horchan Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.10 23:09:00 - [2] Edited by: Horchan on 10/12/2007 23:09:12 And why is the price of T2 increasing a bad thing? Why should this be exempt from the rules of supply and demand? (edit: grammar) --- Originally by: VJ Maverick Jita is closed on Sundays. It's a holy day.
Pizi Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.10 23:13:00 - [3] naja a t2 jumpfrighter for 8-10 bis a bit insane hope the doctor watches the prices and if he finds there is a hole in aviable moones CCP will react _______________________________________________ EVEpedia[Deutsch] Sign this to bring EvE TV back
Lara Dantreb New Horizons	Posted - 2007.12.10 23:21:00 - [4] Dysprosium : 60000 pu atm reactors cost now 50000 isks to produce. say hello to the good old time when Cerberus and Ishtars worthed 250 Mil because it's coming again and soon, nothing will stop the process, a cartel controls Dysprosium prices and it's gonna kill something in the production process
Killian Darkwater Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.10 23:47:00 - [5] The material prices spike every time theres new t2 content released and once the initial demand is met they tend to return to 'normal.' Even if they don't it isn't necessarily a bad thing, the rise in prices makes moon mining more profitable and more people will start doing it. Which provides more supplies of materials and forces sellers to be more competative in their prices. Its hardly the end of the world. Oh, and to make a point regarding the jump freighters: a ship that can carry well in excess of 200k m3 cargo, move through empire space and use a jump drive to travel in almost complete safety through lowsec and 0.0 is worth the 5-10billion isk people complaining about. People have always had to pay through the nose for the best gear in eve, and this is no different.
Lara Dantreb New Horizons	Posted - 2007.12.11 00:00:00 - [6] Originally by: Killian Darkwater The material prices spike every time theres new t2 content released and once the initial demand is met they tend to return to 'normal.' Even if they don't it isn't necessarily a bad thing, the rise in prices makes moon mining more profitable and more people will start doing it. Which provides more supplies of materials and forces sellers to be more competative in their prices. Its hardly the end of the world. I agree with you except that all Dysprosium moons are harvested yet, do you imagine seriously that something which makes 1 Bil per week would be ignored ? (lols) the supply of Dysprosium is not enough OR simply too many people involved in T2 production considering the demand for these fine ships.
Na'amah	Posted - 2007.12.11 04:15:00 - [7] Originally by: Lara Dantreb Originally by: Killian Darkwater The material prices spike every time theres new t2 content released and once the initial demand is met they tend to return to 'normal.' Even if they don't it isn't necessarily a bad thing, the rise in prices makes moon mining more profitable and more people will start doing it. Which provides more supplies of materials and forces sellers to be more competative in their prices. Its hardly the end of the world. I agree with you except that all Dysprosium moons are harvested yet, do you imagine seriously that something which makes 1 Bil per week would be ignored ? (lols) the supply of Dysprosium is not enough OR simply too many people involved in T2 production considering the demand for these fine ships. Or certain people are stocking said Dysprosium supplies for their own reaction chains/T2 production.... or waiting to dump a massive quantity on the market once the price peaks.
iNOX Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.11 09:12:00 - [8] Originally by: Killian Darkwater The material prices spike every time theres new t2 content released and once the initial demand is met they tend to return to 'normal.' Even if they don't it isn't necessarily a bad thing, the rise in prices makes moon mining more profitable and more people will start doing it. Which provides more supplies of materials and forces sellers to be more competative in their prices. Its hardly the end of the world. Oh, and to make a point regarding the jump freighters: a ship that can carry well in excess of 200k m3 cargo, move through empire space and use a jump drive to travel in almost complete safety through lowsec and 0.0 is worth the 5-10billion isk people complaining about. People have always had to pay through the nose for the best gear in eve, and this is no different. It's not just a price spike for materials it's quite natural rise in demand and price for materials.Just go and сompare need for materials between HAC's and T2 BS on some components you need 10 times more then for HAC's and that not just armor plates.I remember a similar situation after release of new ships CCP boosted output for materials but that was long ago.I think nobody want to pay 200kk for some HAC's or 200+ for CS and even more for T2 BS.
Karanth Gallente Eve's Brothers of Destiny Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2007.12.11 09:24:00 - [9] Originally by: Lara Dantreb Originally by: Killian Darkwater The material prices spike every time theres new t2 content released and once the initial demand is met they tend to return to 'normal.' Even if they don't it isn't necessarily a bad thing, the rise in prices makes moon mining more profitable and more people will start doing it. Which provides more supplies of materials and forces sellers to be more competative in their prices. Its hardly the end of the world. I agree with you except that all Dysprosium moons are harvested yet, do you imagine seriously that something which makes 1 Bil per week would be ignored ? (lols) the supply of Dysprosium is not enough OR simply too many people involved in T2 production considering the demand for these fine ships. Again, WHY is it bad? Cost is cost, and once it passes your limit, buy other ships. I think there are about 150 or so different ships. All that's left... There is only one sig hijack that matters, the orginal and only member of the hijack squad. me. -Eris. ps Black russians are better then beer. Well, there's not many of us left! -Rauth
Lara Dantreb New Horizons	Posted - 2007.12.11 14:06:00 - [10] Originally by: Karanth Again, WHY is it bad? Cost is cost, and once it passes your limit, buy other ships. I think there are about 150 or so different ships. It's bad because ALL T2 ships are going to be VERY expansive it's bad because a game is fun when it's balanced. Ships too cheap or too expansive is not balanced. Why ? : not enough moon materials, and a cartel controls Dysprosium prices

Daerkannon Shimmerscale Gallente Paxton Industries Paxton Federation	Posted - 2007.12.11 15:36:00 - [11] Originally by: Lara Dantreb Why ? : not enough moon materials, and a cartel controls Dysprosium prices Repeat after me: there is no Dysprosium cartel. There is no Dysprosium cartel. Sure, there are people manipulating the market, but that's only possible because of the increased demand for this moon mineral combined with a one-two punch of recent supply disruption. There is not, however, some great hegemony or OPEC like entity that is trying to drive up and keep the price at a certain level. The market will ultimately stabilize at a fair price. The market manipulators do not have infinitely deep pockets and if one of the larger alliances were to suddenly have their logistics problems solved and dumped a lot on the market there could be a lot of said manipulators left holding the proverbial bag. In the meantime relax, enjoy the ride and don't sell your products for less than build cost. --- Honest officer, the dwarf was on fire when I got here! Can't find a mechanical engineering agent? Need a non-Caldari Navy agent? http://www.eve-agents.com/ for all your agent needs!
Nar Shear	Posted - 2007.12.11 15:44:00 - [12] welcome to supply and demand? gas price isn't rising and falling IRL because of new vehicals. This is balanced.....
Pizi Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.11 16:09:00 - [13] Edited by: Pizi on 11/12/2007 16:13:24 Originally by: Nar Shear welcome to supply and demand? gas price isn't rising and falling IRL because of new vehicals. This is balanced..... gasprice is rising because there IS a Cartel (that influences the price also that it doesnt get to high , because it would kill their bussines but also for falling to low something thats missing in EvE) and the price of oil rises because of huge speculation and the demand of china and others _______________________________________________ EVEpedia[Deutsch] Sign this to bring EvE TV back
Benvie Benvie Enterprises	Posted - 2007.12.11 17:47:00 - [14] Originally by: Pizi Edited by: Pizi on 11/12/2007 16:13:24 Originally by: Nar Shear welcome to supply and demand? gas price isn't rising and falling IRL because of new vehicals. This is balanced..... gasprice is rising because there IS a Cartel (that influences the price also that it doesnt get to high , because it would kill their bussines but also for falling to low something thats missing in EvE) and the price of oil rises because of huge speculation and the demand of china and others This is a myth. Yeah there's OPEC, but the reason OPEC doesn't increase production is because they CAN'T. 5 member nations of OPEC are officially DECLINING in oil production. There's only a handful of nations left in the entire world that are able to increase production each year, the vast majority are DECREASING each year. It's a lot more similar to dysprosium than most people think. Except its worse. Imagine that after a while of mining a moon it started to give less materials. This is what happens with oil fields. At this point we only find 1 new barrel of oil in new fields for every 6 we burn up in our cars. There isn't going to be more oil, there is going to be less. And it's going to keep being less every year. Look up "Peak Oil" for more infos.
Pizi Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.11 18:39:00 - [15] im fully aware that thewre isnt infinite oil, but also that OPEC isnt running at 100 % so to say not so long ago a economist said thet the worldwide economy "could" live with a barrel price of 200 so there is noo need to react _______________________________________________ EVEpedia[Deutsch] Sign this to bring EvE TV back
Nar Shear	Posted - 2007.12.11 18:50:00 - [16] Originally by: Pizi Edited by: Pizi on 11/12/2007 16:13:24 Originally by: Nar Shear welcome to supply and demand? gas price isn't rising and falling IRL because of new vehicals. This is balanced..... gasprice is rising because there IS a Cartel (that influences the price also that it doesnt get to high , because it would kill their bussines but also for falling to low something thats missing in EvE) and the price of oil rises because of huge speculation and the demand of china and others market research before posting please....mmmkthnx For those who didn't know, Russia is currently the worlds most untouched oil reserve in the world. As the poster above me stated, China is becomming in abit of a mess, as well as a few other countries, they are depleting the available oil from thier fields. Demand of Oil goes up....Supply of oil go down....price goes up. Lets take a look back at the early 80's.... Demand of Oil going up.....high surplus of oil....companies (even the huge "cartel" OPEC) fight for best price to get thier quantities sold. Now, on a EVE note to bring this into perspective. Low quantity of T2 materials.......high and rapidly increasing demand.....HIGH PRICE. (oh my god, this is 7th grade economics here...) Now, just as the poster above me stated....and what would be seriously interesting is what happens when the materials run out? well, I think that would be game over for t2. Can anyone guess what would happen then Thats correct class! The prices would go UPUPUP! Why Right again! Low quantity + High Demand = Price Gouging! Who wants a star?
Pizi Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.11 18:57:00 - [17] all oil aside =) i think what happend is some are speculeting with the materials, there must be huge quantities stored buy now it will get released when they think the price is peaked or they run out of money (not likley) so in the end it will be business as usual or if the availible moons are too few CCP wil alow moonmining in 0.4 and 0.5 and so on _______________________________________________ EVEpedia[Deutsch] Sign this to bring EvE TV back
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.11 19:58:00 - [18] Originally by: Nar Shear welcome to supply and demand? gas price isn't rising and falling IRL because of new vehicals. This is balanced..... You mean that some billion of Chinese people getting cars don't influence the market?
Darth Nerf	Posted - 2007.12.11 20:28:00 - [19] Instead of whining you filthy rich industrialists should get together, hire some serious firepower and take control of some dysprosium-sources yourselves.
iNOX Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.11 21:36:00 - [20] Edited by: iNOX on 11/12/2007 21:36:45 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=651891 Nice one.Anyone want to place a bet how much prices for all T2 will increase?

Qual Gallente Cornexant Research	Posted - 2007.12.12 10:03:00 - [21] Originally by: iNOX Edited by: iNOX on 11/12/2007 21:36:45 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=651891 Nice one.Anyone want to place a bet how much prices for all T2 will increase? Not much. Well ok, for about two weeks yes, but after that it will stabalize +/- 20% of pre patch prices. The thing is that if you look at the market you can already see teh prices starting to fall. Why is this? Well a lot of people expected the prices to rise, so huge volumes have been stocked to make a profit during the goldrush. Now these people see the prices stopping to rise, so they want to check in now. Caldari reactor cores was 130k yesterday morning, they are less than 100 now. That will continue. The really clever people are the ones like the one you link to, who have stocked up pre patch, and are now building the ships at a pure isk cost of less than 500M, but are pricing the ships based on the current gold rush market. They are looking at 1B profit per ship. Yes, I know the argument: "But the materials are worth what you could sell them for on market!" Sure! You just can sell that much materials at the price... So in short, people who planed ahead got everything shopped way before patch, stand to make alot of ISK in the gold rush. Unless: So many T2 ships are build so it gets to be the buyers market. "The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf
Ione Hunt 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.12.12 10:36:00 - [22] The market will regulate itself...no need for CCP intervention. As in RL, you no mystical being will just show up and say "here, I just trippled the total oil reserves on earth...enjoy, I hope you're happy you don't have to pay as much anymore!!". _______________
Lara Dantreb New Horizons	Posted - 2007.12.12 13:01:00 - [23] Originally by: Daerkannon Shimmerscale Originally by: Lara Dantreb Why ? : not enough moon materials, and a cartel controls Dysprosium prices Repeat after me: there is no Dysprosium cartel. There is no Dysprosium cartel. Sure, there are people manipulating the market, but that's only possible because of the increased demand for this moon mineral combined with a one-two punch of recent supply disruption. There is not, however, some great hegemony or OPEC like entity that is trying to drive up and keep the price at a certain level. The market will ultimately stabilize at a fair price. The market manipulators do not have infinitely deep pockets and if one of the larger alliances were to suddenly have their logistics problems solved and dumped a lot on the market there could be a lot of said manipulators left holding the proverbial bag. In the meantime relax, enjoy the ride and don't sell your products for less than build cost. 1) If you throw a look at dysprosium price history, you will see that these prices are under influence since around 3 month 2) OK I admit there might no be a cartel. Anyway I've been int he Moon materials/pos/T2 business for long enough to say that there is NOT ENOUGH dysprosium supply and maybe other raw materials aswell. 3) The demand for materials/T2 component is huge, I doubt strongly that there will be a big demand for these ships at these rates (Colsup made a mistake announcing their prices too early)
Admiral Nova Strike Team Nova	Posted - 2007.12.12 17:01:00 - [24] You can't really compare oil to moon mins, because there is a fixed 'total' amount of oil in the ground, when it goes it goes. So if you slow your pumping, you can get higher prices now, and higher prices later. Moon materials there is a fixed amount generated per hour, always, you can't stuff some back into the moon for later. (Though I guess you can hold onto some). They will never 'run out' though, there will always be the same amount (roughly) generated per hour. This will let 'x' many T2 ships be built, prices will go up and will only be released by people stopping their purchase of T2 ships because they are too expensive again. In this patch invented ships actually now use alot less of these materials, but of course there are alot more of them being invented, soon the invention itself won't be making much difference to the build price, but the extra wastage will.

CCP Chronotis	Posted - 2007.12.12 23:56:00 - [25] We do agree that the demand for components will only increase due to invention removing the limiting factor of a fixed original blueprint supply and new tech II ships being introduced. This has warranted a fresh look at the moon mining and construction component processes which has been ongoing for a while since we first confirmed we were introducing so many new ships and also making some big changes to invention which have lead to a very in-depth look at the industry from top to bottom. Nothing has been decided as yet, basing anything on the short term fluctuations of a post trinity market would be a knee-jerk response at best as to whether or not the answer to the question, "Do we need to increase supply rates of components?" is yes. Our current long term view is indeed that certain materials like dysprosium and promethium are somewhat limited and we should investigate possible options for boosting the output in some way or decreasing their demand. To share some of our oberservations from looking in depth at moon minerals to start some discussion: To start with, a focus in the specific current main problem: Dysprosium & Promethium vs. Thulium and Neodymium It is particularly interesting when comparing dysprosium and promethium to the other two equally rare moon materials thulium and neodymium which have much lower demand rates and much lower moon occupancy. This indicates one possible avenue for us which is to switch some of the demand between them which can be done at any of the stages of the component manufacturing process. Reactors and Sensor Clusters Reactors and sensor clusters both require either hypersynaptic fibers, ferrogel or fermionic condensates which require dysprosium or promethium in turn. Some of you may of noticed with jump freighters we changed the ratio of armor plates to reactor or sensor clusters in the blueprints for example and part of the aim of this was to reduce the reliance on the most limited advanced materials whilst scaling the costs appropriately for capital sized vessels and their components being similarly sized. This related change also brings another possible solution which is to revisit the ratio of 'cheaper' advanced materials to the reactors and sensor clusters in all tech II ships as an alternative which is to lower demand and increase subsequent demand for less cost-effective moons currently. More wider observations: Moon material distribution and 'mud'! Mud is the technical term we use to describe the model distribution of moon materials, it is much like panning for gold, lots of mud and very few nuggets. However this is fundamentally different to traditional asteroid ore and minerals where we require large quantities of common materials and less of the rarer ones. With moon mining we require very little of the mud like atmospheric gases since the scaling of common to rare material comes at the complex reaction stage rather than the initial extraction stage such as in the case of ore mining and tech I demand. This does present some other possible avenues of change by making the 'mud' useful which is introduce new reactions which require lots of mud and produce some quantity of the advanced materials. Complex moon materials and constant supply Several ideas both here and internally have mentioned more complex distributions of moon materials which moons both having a limited supply or regeneration rate of the materials and being more complex in their structure such as every moon having some mud, some metal and a portion of rare materials so instead of one to four constant products, you get a varying supply rate and much more diverse supply range. Summary Most of this is my own opinions and nothing is set in stone (usual disclaimer) but it would be nice to see what everyone thinks of moon mining and component supply and what you would like the future to hold for it.

Caligulus Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.12.13 00:16:00 - [26] Altering the build material requirements to lay the burden across a broader range of existing materials is the way to go. Not only does this reduce the bottle-neck but it also reduces the impact of a short term stoppage of a specific moon mineral impacting the entire market. Further more it spreads the wealth around a little more which means more money to go shooty-shooty with which makes EvE go round. ------------------------------------------------- ** Name ONE thing that your windows comp can do that my MAC cant ** Right click.
diskONE Caldari Macabre Votum Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.12.13 01:25:00 - [27] i like the idea of having moons produce small amounts of the rare metals, etc. This would give greater amounts of dyspourium and promethium in the system, while preserving the rare moons that have an abundance of the rarest metals. I think that would be a great thing to do with moon mining ____________________________________________
Braaage eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.13 01:32:00 - [28] How about starting by seeding Tech II moon Harvesters, they been in the database for so long but for some unknown reason never seeded. -- eve-guides.com All about POSs, Outposts, Exploration, Mining, EVE Database + much more!!
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2007.12.13 01:53:00 - [29] Quote: ...would be a knee-jerk response at best as to whether or not the answer to the question, "Do we need to increase supply rates of components?" is yes. Thank god the Dev's realise that :) Some pretty cool ideas there though. Complex moons would be interesting, though what would happen with existing moon setups? They'd suddenly start manufacturing stuff in addition to the 100 of X they get every hour? Or they'd suddenly get less than 100 X every hour. Either way, if that became the solution a few peoples plans would suddenly skew. Improve Market Competition!
Arric Rohr The Knights Templar Pure.	Posted - 2007.12.13 02:52:00 - [30] Having items with a fixed, limited supply is a problem in any MMO. CCP clearly recognized this with the T2 bpo's, and introduced invention to counter it. The original bpo owners can still make money, which they deserve, but newer players who weren't even around when most of the bpo's were distributed can get in the T2 production game through a different channel. This is a Good Thing. So, I would suggest addressing moon mining in a similar way. Here are some wild hair ideas, none of which might work, but show the way to how I think the issue be resolved... 1) Have moons produce variable output. You have to keep scanning them, maybe with a POS mounted scanner. Materials can be found, mined, then run out, perhaps to be found again. After all, moons are big. 2) Introduce moon material gathering to the exploration system. Lost moons, I like the sound of it. Have them stay around long enough to put up a POS, or create a limited mining platform. 3) Open up high sec moon mining. Still, all the good moons have been discovered, and people are waiting for this to be done. So maybe not so good. 4) Introduce planet mining. How, I have no idea. I'll edit if I can come up with more. By the way, I do some moon mining to a limited extent, and would do more if there was more mystery to it. Every moon in the two regions my alliance lives in has been scanned. What fun is that? AR Where do I get one of those cool signatures?



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