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Murtala
Mushin Market
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Posted - 2007.12.11 14:22:00 -
[1]
I started a topic a few days ago and it managed to not get flamed to death. Linkage
I have a dream that an alliance creates within 3 to 4 regions of 0.0 space, a thriving economic and social empire full of carebears mining and trading under there protection. A jita in 0.0
If a killmail is shown that one of carebears has broken the rules of the empire, then he is asked to compensate the victim otherwise they are set red. How it finally works can be debated later but itĘs the principle I am talking about.
The BoB attitude of "Nice region, we'll take it!" is ok, but does not consider what to do with the regions once they get it. Goons attitude of lets kill BOB is ok, but does not consider what to do afterwards if they kill BOB. The other alliances simply takes sides or try to be neutral but do not seem to have a real big goal of what they would like to achieve in EVE beyond the next war.
Many decent alliances own regions of 0.0. Why can't one, think beyond pew-pew and create or do something with the region. Maybe invite a carebear alliance to create a market in the region. The pew-pew will come to you and the carebears will help maintain your POSes.
Think about it.
---
Goons - Real Goons - Goons Titans |
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.12.11 14:30:00 -
[2]
Big blue did it and it worked for awhile.
Originally by: ISD Cortes You're at liberty to use the rolling sig you had, as long as there's no chimeras covering the nether regions of voluptuous females. |
bitters much
Nekkid Inc.
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Posted - 2007.12.11 14:30:00 -
[3]
CYVOK is that you ?
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.12.11 14:31:00 -
[4]
So, basically, you miss ASCN?
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Rukaz
Endgame.
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Posted - 2007.12.11 14:31:00 -
[5]
Like ASCN?
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BuIIseye
Amarr Pax Amarria Corp
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Posted - 2007.12.11 14:32:00 -
[6]
I had a dream, of a three some
------------------------------ Yes i am hax0r
Because of the name I have a higher chance of a wrecking shot, please don't tell the GM's or they'll nerf me =/ |
Murtala
Mushin Market
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Posted - 2007.12.11 14:58:00 -
[7]
I am not CYVOK nor miss ASCN. But if they or anyone else has tried and failed, then we can learn from there mistakes. if it was easy, many would have done it.
Ultimately no alliance can conquer EVE. Nor even come close to conquering eve.
Therefore an alliance has to have a goal other than wardecing there neighbours because they will quickly run out of neighbours. So what is BoB goal or the Goons or RA or AAA or TRI or the hundreds of other alliances in EVE.
My suggestion is the obvious long term goal for any alliance wanting to use the tools CCP have provided in EVE to the max.
Goons - Real Goons - Goons Titans |
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.12.11 15:08:00 -
[8]
Im gonna conquer all of 0.0
Originally by: ISD Cortes You're at liberty to use the rolling sig you had, as long as there's no chimeras covering the nether regions of voluptuous females. |
Malcanis
High4Life SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.11 15:16:00 -
[9]
It's an interesting idea, but has the following fatal flaws:
(1) You need to find a large group of players with sufficient combat capability to take and hold this area of space yet who are also willing to let the carebears reap the profits.
(2) The place will be infested almost instantly with ISK-farmers.
(3) The consequent drop in the prices of 0.0 produce will earn you the emnity of every other 0.0 miner in EvE
(4) Every "pirate" alliance and corp will gleefully hunt this rich source of carebears unless the PvPers mentioned in (1) are prepared to continually and effectively protect them. These PvPers will surely want compensating for their time, and will demand that non-contributers be kicked.
In other words, within a few months at most, your "New Idea" alliance will look exactly like every other alliance in 0.0
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Jotan Veer
HUN Corp. HUN Reloaded
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Posted - 2007.12.11 15:18:00 -
[10]
It will not work for two reasons.
1. Market: everyone and their little sister will have a market price fixing alt sitting in the region buying up everything and reselling the stuff with a nice markup.
This is viable since the expensive and time consuming nature of 0.0 logistics prohibits unlimited supply, thus someone will always have a large enough wallet to screw the whole population over.
2. PVP: cool dudes with large guns (and a cloak) will always be tempted by such a carebear paradise. One would need a prohibitively large standing army to discourage roaming gangs and cloaking griefers. However sooner or later your large standing army will start to lose members because they get bored. Doing nothing but patrolling your home region, hunting cloakers and nano gangs will drive pvp'ers away to more fun alliances and territories.
HUN Corp. recruitment info (Hungarian players only) |
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flaming phantom
Minmatar Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION
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Posted - 2007.12.11 15:21:00 -
[11]
there was someone a long time ago who had the same idea, a good read actually its really funny.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=370209
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Daerkannon Shimmerscale
Gallente Paxton Industries Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2007.12.11 15:24:00 -
[12]
Sooo.... basically you mean like the CVA and Providence? --- Honest officer, the dwarf was on fire when I got here! Can't find a mechanical engineering agent? Need a non-Caldari Navy agent? http://www.eve-agents.com/ for all your agent needs! |
Angor
The JORG Corporation Terra Incognita.
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Posted - 2007.12.11 15:28:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Daerkannon Shimmerscale Sooo.... basically you mean like the CVA and Providence?
lol i was going to say that... well the old ISS also. _______________________________ [ 2007.06.07 21:07:22 ] FrankyWave > ransom me guys I am joining XElas !!! |
Sidrat Flush
Caldari Ore Mongers R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.12.11 15:31:00 -
[14]
Jotan hit the biggest point on the button.
Lack of FUN. Okay, the ratters, industrialists are having a ball, but the PvP contingency will get bored unless they can roam and get named/t2 items for cost, and then of course theirs the actual consumers. Do you blue everyone and give everyone docking access? How fun will that be for the standing army, when one market privateer can sweep in and resale everything on the market for a couple hundred percent markup.
0.0 is different, depending on who controls it anyway. That is a good thing. A rich market at affordable prices is good, but better corps (because there's a major lack of alliance side mechanics) supply and produce their own items and sell what they don't need to strangers in Jita (or anywhere else for that matter, why everyone crowds that 4-4 station in that system, I don't know) anyway...
The last alliance that did either of the above got rumbled, because the care bears left in droves usually with most/all of their assets and left the combateers to defend a region that was dwindling on resources and people to defend. Oh and in the other I'm remembering they got into politics favouring both sides and one side took exception to that and brought in the dreads and sieged the pos's and took their stations.
Without PvP, industrialists would be selling pve equipment to pve'rs who are unfortunate enough to get stuck on a roid or something. In essence, the whole demand side of the equation would run down and then CCP might as well turn the servers off.
Life is about memories the more the better. End Slavery. |
Murtala
Mushin Market
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Posted - 2007.12.11 15:31:00 -
[15]
Protection is not an issue as I believe MC is currently unemployed. See the film "The Magnificent Seven"
There are many mercenaries around to spearhead the defence of the region if the defending alliance cannot do it themselves. And pew-pew close to home is good especially if your industry is nearby to provide replacements. At moment it is a logistic nightmare running to jita with an alt to replace your lost ship in 0.0
But as anyone got a better suggestion of a goal for their alliance? Does anyone posting here or reading this know what they are going to do with themselves once there current campaign is over?
---
Goons - Real Goons - Goons Titans |
Cippalippus Primus
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.12.11 15:33:00 -
[16]
To be honest no one flies to Jita to get a new ship every time.
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Plutoinum
German Cyberdome Corp Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.12.11 15:36:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Plutoinum on 11/12/2007 15:36:40
Originally by: Murtala
I have a dream that an alliance creates within 3 to 4 regions of 0.0 space, a thriving economic and social empire full of carebears mining and trading under there protection. A jita in 0.0
The problems with such dreams is that once they become true, someone appears on the scene, stomps everything into the ground, points the finger at you, says nelson-like 'Haha !' and you may just end bitter.
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The Mittani
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.12.11 15:50:00 -
[18]
i thought about it and came to the conclusion that,
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munchy
Alcatraz Inc. Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2007.12.11 16:02:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Murtala
So what is BoB goal or the Goons or RA or AAA or TRI or the hundreds of other alliances in EVE.
aahhh, see, these alliances often have very strange goals... their leaders must be madmen as i hear alot of them have the goal of..... "having fun". a crazy concept i know, but it seems to be a commonly overlooked possibilty. ---
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munchy
Alcatraz Inc. Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2007.12.11 16:10:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Murtala
But as anyone got a better suggestion of a goal for their alliance? Does anyone posting here or reading this know what they are going to do with themselves once there current campaign is over?
---
oh... also...
they will likely kill each other, as is the nature of the game ---
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shivan
Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.12.11 16:27:00 -
[21]
Look at CVA. They have been doing just that for the last couple of years to very great effect. Station Ping Pong |
Laura Baretta
Minmatar Cult of the Skulls
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Posted - 2007.12.11 16:36:00 -
[22]
There are a few problems with this idea:
First, If such an alliance existed in 0.0, it would have to offer something for all other alliances... something valuable enough to not have them destroy the alliance.
Second, If that alliance really has something like that to offer to any alliance, it will be in direct conflict with alliances that are at war with alliances that benefit from this.
Therefore, you become a target.
Third, if you created a Jita like economy in 0.0, you would become vulnerable to blackmailing. Powerful entities could simply control the market by dictating traffic and sovereignity.
Lastly, for this to work, you would have to become friends with ALL other entities in this game, wich simply doesnt work.
And aslong as you are sitting between hardened war fronts this will never happen.
So yes, this is destined to fail before it takes off.
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WraithFire
Cassandra's Light Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.12.11 17:29:00 -
[23]
So basically, the OP wants ACSN 2.0
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Boom ChickaBoom
Caldari Friendly Pod Poppers
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Posted - 2007.12.11 17:47:00 -
[24]
CVA has been doing this in providence for a while now. Although there market isnt the best they do not put restrictions on what people bring up there to sell and im sure they would welcome a bigger market in the area. Also im not sure about the stability up there right now because of the recent war dec from Tri. If someone has some better info on the Tri/CVA war can you start some kind of new thread to keep the rest of us updated?
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Splagada
Minmatar Tides of Silence Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.11 18:02:00 -
[25]
many now hardcore pvpers corp/alliances started under ISS wing, or near UK/CVA space, or in Big Blue
dunno about ASCN but i went in iss, uk and big blue space and it was pretty fun to learn the ropes of 0.0 ------
Proud Janitor of Tides of Silence
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Grimpak
Gallente Trinity Nova
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Posted - 2007.12.11 18:13:00 -
[26]
Originally by: WraithFire So basically, the OP wants ACSN 2.0
I am xASCN, and I can tell that if it was in somewhat similar to the ASCN between the EC-P8R siege and the BoB war...
please no ---
planetary interaction idea! |
killerco
Gallente The Flying Dutchmen Antesignani Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.11 18:15:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Murtala I have a dream that an alliance creates within 3 to 4 regions of 0.0 space, a thriving economic and social empire full of carebears mining and trading under there protection. A jita in 0.0
you are describing ascn my friend. Which failed due too the fact that there were too many carebears who ****** it up for the rest because they didn't do a damm thing beside filling there pockets. Your dream is an illusion!
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SecondaryisPrimary
Crusador Industries
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Posted - 2007.12.11 18:20:00 -
[28]
If you truely want to try this idea i would suggest trying to set this up in an area of low sec. You will have the same issues of security etc. as you will have in 0.0, but you will not have to worry about POS war fare, or someone kicking you out of your territory. You would just need to do this in an area that has easy access to true 0.0 (where you can possible get an agreement to allow you to mine in their space) and easy access to trade lanes.
In any case good luck with your idea.
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CARY
Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.12.11 18:32:00 -
[29]
Well I have pretty good insight of this game and a little of its politics.
After BOB and yes there will be an after Bob, let call it the AB= After BOB ok.
When we go AB I think there will not be any major wars for a while, there will be some corp vs corp wars and alliance vs alliance wars but no major offensives. There will be a few corps and alliances getting revenge on each other. Over all peace in our time.
But if I was to guess over time where the next major war will come I see it happening in the Fountain Regions and the Fade Regions. I also see there will possible be a big war to break out in Drone Regions which will end quicky however. Curse and the Great Wildland will alway be a no-mad place. Beyond these points who knows where the war will come and who. There might even be a sleeper in this game that is yet to come, there might even be 2 old long time enemies to merge into a super alliance...who really knows.
CARY (Specialization, Executive Commander)
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TylerJames
Damage Unlimited Inc Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2007.12.11 18:35:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Angor
Originally by: Daerkannon Shimmerscale Sooo.... basically you mean like the CVA and Providence?
lol i was going to say that... well the old ISS also.
Don't forget CFS
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Vogue
Seven. Enuma Elish.
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Posted - 2007.12.11 18:46:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Vogue on 11/12/2007 18:47:14 Seems like anything beyond the emergent behaviour with the current game mechanics is communism. You cant have such central planning against the torrent of how the game works now. Lets say RL 100 years is 2 years of EVE time. Communism lasted 70ish years and ASCN far less ASCN had its wonderfull marketplace and then was the time it was poundland after BOB wtfpwned them. Then they flogged so much T2 for uber cheap prices it was wicked.
Indeed to go against this thinking there should be an ebb and flow of region status around empire. 0.5 regions should drop to 0.4 once in a while and the other way round. Regular 0.4 empire pirate camp spots could get higher region status and other yellow, green status areas could go lower.
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Mi Lai
The Black Dragon Society
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Posted - 2007.12.11 18:56:00 -
[32]
If people just want to carebear in 0.0, they can simply choose to become renters / pets or whatever you want to call it (I like the term vassals). That way the host has benefit from accepting the parasites in their body (rent, taxes, whatever) and the para... uhm, PVE'ers have the benefit of having protection.
Considering how much easier it is to make ISK while PVE'ing vs PVP'ing, even with tax it will be a mutual beneficial aggreement if you can stand being called names on internet forums.
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Vile rat
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.12.11 19:19:00 -
[33]
Originally by: CARY Well I have pretty good insight of this game and a little of its politics.
After BOB and yes there will be an after Bob, let call it the AB= After BOB ok.
When we go AB I think there will not be any major wars for a while, there will be some corp vs corp wars and alliance vs alliance wars but no major offensives. There will be a few corps and alliances getting revenge on each other. Over all peace in our time.
But if I was to guess over time where the next major war will come I see it happening in the Fountain Regions and the Fade Regions. I also see there will possible be a big war to break out in Drone Regions which will end quicky however. Curse and the Great Wildland will alway be a no-mad place. Beyond these points who knows where the war will come and who. There might even be a sleeper in this game that is yet to come, there might even be 2 old long time enemies to merge into a super alliance...who really knows.
CARY (Specialization, Executive Commander)
Who the hell are you and why do we let you post?
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Boom ChickaBoom
Caldari Friendly Pod Poppers
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Posted - 2007.12.11 19:36:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Mi Lai If people just want to carebear in 0.0, they can simply choose to become renters / pets or whatever you want to call it (I like the term vassals). That way the host has benefit from accepting the parasites in their body (rent, taxes, whatever) and the para... uhm, PVE'ers have the benefit of having protection.
Considering how much easier it is to make ISK while PVE'ing vs PVP'ing, even with tax it will be a mutual beneficial aggreement if you can stand being called names on internet forums.
I disagree. The OP was not talking about renting space from another alliance. He was talking about a regional NRDS where anyone who wanted to enter the area and be a carebear could. Renting space from someone else would be counter productive in trying to establish a market hub that was meant for the general public. If concord shot everyone that didnt pay them rent would jita be like it is? It seems like your just trying to flame carebears try to keep this topic on track.
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Baxalusx
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.12.11 20:06:00 -
[35]
why bother --------- ~THE ARTIST FORMERLY KNOWN AS ICORION~ |
Laura Baretta
Minmatar Cult of the Skulls
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Posted - 2007.12.11 20:08:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Mi Lai If people just want to carebear in 0.0, they can simply choose to become renters / pets or whatever you want to call it (I like the term vassals). That way the host has benefit from accepting the parasites in their body (rent, taxes, whatever) and the para... uhm, PVE'ers have the benefit of having protection.
Considering how much easier it is to make ISK while PVE'ing vs PVP'ing, even with tax it will be a mutual beneficial aggreement if you can stand being called names on internet forums.
If both sides benefit from it, you can't call PVE'rs Parasites ;) They are only parasites if they don't give the PvPers something back (like manufactured war equipment). As long as they do this, i think they would best be described as symbionts.
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Laura Baretta
Minmatar Cult of the Skulls
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Posted - 2007.12.11 20:11:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Laura Baretta on 11/12/2007 20:11:20 You know what actually would be cool with ambulation. To run a bar in 0.0 where everyone would be allowed to enter and hang out. Unfortunately this would only work in a NPC station atm i think, since If Station ownership changes im not sure what happens to the owners and their real estate on stations. But damn a cantina where all the bad, good and the ugly meet up would be fun :)
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The Mittani
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.12.11 20:39:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Vile rat
Originally by: CARY Well I have pretty good insight of this game and a little of its politics.
After BOB and yes there will be an after Bob, let call it the AB= After BOB ok.
When we go AB I think there will not be any major wars for a while, there will be some corp vs corp wars and alliance vs alliance wars but no major offensives. There will be a few corps and alliances getting revenge on each other. Over all peace in our time.
But if I was to guess over time where the next major war will come I see it happening in the Fountain Regions and the Fade Regions. I also see there will possible be a big war to break out in Drone Regions which will end quicky however. Curse and the Great Wildland will alway be a no-mad place. Beyond these points who knows where the war will come and who. There might even be a sleeper in this game that is yet to come, there might even be 2 old long time enemies to merge into a super alliance...who really knows.
CARY (Specialization, Executive Commander)
Who the hell are you and why do we let you post?
wow 'over all peace in our time' wtc
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Lochmar Fiendhiem
Caldari International Multi-Player Consortium Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.12.11 22:40:00 -
[39]
This is so easy guys.
The op wants to get all the alliances go do a stop on pos warfare to a certain point. no station taking outside of that alliances region or area (there are massive expanses in 0.0 space where there are no stations). If pos warfare stopped, and the mad pos buildup you can create in your home region would allow the alliance to focus on ships and ships alone.
Lots of pew pew from roaming gangs, and jumpbridges solve a lot of the 0.0 transportation issues (gang arrives a lot sooner, more pew pew).
The basic idea is doing what most of the north has done. they seem to be enjoying it, as you dont need to defend the ratters, just go roaming and kill their ratters, find their fleets.
Something similar to a ROE, or our (real world)Geneva Conventions.
It is possible if everyone agrees.
Originally by: Halkin bob is dead, goons are great, cheese is cheesy, there we go no need for any more threads
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Swamp Ziro
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.12.11 22:57:00 -
[40]
Originally by: The Mittani
Originally by: Vile rat
Originally by: CARY Well I have pretty good insight of this game and a little of its politics.
After BOB and yes there will be an after Bob, let call it the AB= After BOB ok.
When we go AB I think there will not be any major wars for a while, there will be some corp vs corp wars and alliance vs alliance wars but no major offensives. There will be a few corps and alliances getting revenge on each other. Over all peace in our time.
But if I was to guess over time where the next major war will come I see it happening in the Fountain Regions and the Fade Regions. I also see there will possible be a big war to break out in Drone Regions which will end quicky however. Curse and the Great Wildland will alway be a no-mad place. Beyond these points who knows where the war will come and who. There might even be a sleeper in this game that is yet to come, there might even be 2 old long time enemies to merge into a super alliance...who really knows.
CARY (Specialization, Executive Commander)
Who the hell are you and why do we let you post?
wow 'over all peace in our time' wtc
That alliance will be BTLS and they will reign supreme in 0-w and u69
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Janu Hull
Caldari Terra Incognita Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.12.11 23:14:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Lochmar Fiendhiem
It is possible if everyone agrees.
Point of failure identified.
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Murtala
Mushin Market
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Posted - 2007.12.11 23:29:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Murtala on 11/12/2007 23:34:05
Originally by: Janu Hull
Originally by: Lochmar Fiendhiem
It is possible if everyone agrees.
Point of failure identified.
Not everyone has to agree in EvE, just your alliance.
Define your borders and hold in and start carebearing. The most common argument against the idea is pew-pew, but thatĘs what we want. Let the pew-pew come to you. Build up a massive military force.
Remember that he path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
EDIT: Let other alliances continue with POS spam and maintainace many jumps from nowhere. You can decided not to continuue to do so.
Goons - Real Goons - Goons Titans |
Rocka Stargirl
Hugs for the Hug Throne
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Posted - 2007.12.11 23:30:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Janu Hull
Originally by: Lochmar Fiendhiem
It is possible if everyone agrees.
Point of failure identified.
well done. ---
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Gamesguy
Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.12.12 00:05:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Murtala Edited by: Murtala on 11/12/2007 23:34:05
Originally by: Janu Hull
Originally by: Lochmar Fiendhiem
It is possible if everyone agrees.
Point of failure identified.
Not everyone has to agree in EvE, just your alliance.
Define your borders and hold in and start carebearing. The most common argument against the idea is pew-pew, but thatĘs what we want. Let the pew-pew come to you. Build up a massive military force.
Remember that he path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
EDIT: Let other alliances continue with POS spam and maintainace many jumps from nowhere. You can decided not to continuue to do so.
At which point you become a paper tiger. You look impressive in terms of member count and perhaps fleet size, but all the good pvpers and FCs have all left because all you have them do is camp your systems and guard ratters.
Then an alliance much smaller than you will decide to attack you, and after a couple of engagements where their 100 man fleet wtfpwn your 300 raven fleets, your carebears will stop ganging up and within a month you will have lost your stations.
Thats why this will never work.
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Murtala
Mushin Market
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Posted - 2007.12.12 00:12:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Murtala on 12/12/2007 00:13:23 I mentioned somewhere that MC are currently unemployed. Get a good merc force to spearhead defence of your area. See the film, The Magnificent Seven
Quote Village Boy 2: We're ashamed to live here. Our fathers are cowards. O'Reilly: Don't you ever say that again about your fathers, because they are not cowards. You think I am brave because I carry a gun; well, your fathers are much braver because they carry responsibility, for you, your brothers, your sisters, and your mothers. And this responsibility is like a big rock that weighs a ton. It bends and it twists them until finally it buries them under the ground. And there's nobody says they have to do this. They do it because they love you, and because they want to. I have never had this kind of courage. Running a farm, working like a mule every day with no guarantee anything will ever come of it. This is bravery. That's why I never even started anything like that... that's why I never will.
from the film, the Magnificent Seven
Goons - Real Goons - Goons Titans |
Laura Baretta
Minmatar Cult of the Skulls
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Posted - 2007.12.12 00:17:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Murtala Edited by: Murtala on 12/12/2007 00:13:23 I mentioned somewhere that MC are currently unemployed. Get a good merc force to spearhead defence of your area. See the film, The Magnificent Seven
Quote Village Boy 2: We're ashamed to live here. Our fathers are cowards. O'Reilly: Don't you ever say that again about your fathers, because they are not cowards. You think I am brave because I carry a gun; well, your fathers are much braver because they carry responsibility, for you, your brothers, your sisters, and your mothers. And this responsibility is like a big rock that weighs a ton. It bends and it twists them until finally it buries them under the ground. And there's nobody says they have to do this. They do it because they love you, and because they want to. I have never had this kind of courage. Running a farm, working like a mule every day with no guarantee anything will ever come of it. This is bravery. That's why I never even started anything like that... that's why I never will.
from the film, the Magnificent Seven
Your little empire would have to make ALOT of money to be able to afford the MC 24/7 for multiple months.
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Zaphod Jones
Minmatar Infinitus Odium The Church.
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Posted - 2007.12.12 00:42:00 -
[47]
stuff ASCN, bring back Xetic
Save EvE TV |
Kaaii
Caldari Kaaii-Net Research Labs
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Posted - 2007.12.12 00:57:00 -
[48]
The only reason this will never work
"It is far easier to destroy than create.................."
According to Oveur, existing LSAA's already anchored will stay there. kieron Director of Community Relations,
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Murtala
Mushin Market
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Posted - 2007.12.12 01:02:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Murtala on 12/12/2007 01:10:11
Originally by: Zaphod Jones stuff ASCN, bring back Xetic
maybe BoB or Goons or RA or AAA can have a go. Create something really big. NOL = New Jita
--------- Goons - Real Goons - Goons Titans |
Gamesguy
Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.12.12 01:17:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Murtala Edited by: Murtala on 12/12/2007 00:13:23 I mentioned somewhere that MC are currently unemployed. Get a good merc force to spearhead defence of your area. See the film, The Magnificent Seven
Quote Village Boy 2: We're ashamed to live here. Our fathers are cowards. O'Reilly: Don't you ever say that again about your fathers, because they are not cowards. You think I am brave because I carry a gun; well, your fathers are much braver because they carry responsibility, for you, your brothers, your sisters, and your mothers. And this responsibility is like a big rock that weighs a ton. It bends and it twists them until finally it buries them under the ground. And there's nobody says they have to do this. They do it because they love you, and because they want to. I have never had this kind of courage. Running a farm, working like a mule every day with no guarantee anything will ever come of it. This is bravery. That's why I never even started anything like that... that's why I never will.
from the film, the Magnificent Seven
There is no way you'd be able to afford to hire MC everytime someone decides to attack you.
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xCOUNTx
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2007.12.12 01:45:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Murtala Edited by: Murtala on 12/12/2007 01:10:11
Originally by: Zaphod Jones stuff ASCN, bring back Xetic
maybe BoB or Goons or RA or AAA can have a go. Create something really big. NOL = New Jita
---------
what's in it for us?
The Free Trade Zone experiment tried this in a way but as it turns out there's not much to gain by bringing in empire folk. They will strip your belts, relist your market (or undercut 0.01 isk) and they'll be the first to run back to Jita when push comes to shove since they have no loyalty to your alliance. __________ Up untill I read that Goonswarm post all my 9-11 anger was directed towards Muslim terrorists. I guess I have expand the targets for my own anger. |
dmosbarge1
DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.12.12 01:53:00 -
[52]
Goons did this, for a while, with the free trade zone.
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Vasili Z
Beasts of Burden YouWhat
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Posted - 2007.12.12 03:12:00 -
[53]
Originally by: BuIIseye I had a dream, of a three some
hahaha win -------
Everything I say represents my corporation and their views. |
Rhatar Khurin
Minmatar Sten Industries
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Posted - 2007.12.12 03:29:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Laura Baretta Edited by: Laura Baretta on 11/12/2007 20:11:20 You know what actually would be cool with ambulation. To run a bar in 0.0 where everyone would be allowed to enter and hang out. Unfortunately this would only work in a NPC station atm i think, since If Station ownership changes im not sure what happens to the owners and their real estate on stations. But damn a cantina where all the bad, good and the ugly meet up would be fun :)
Like Babylon 5 or Deepspace 9. Indeed it would be cool.
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Lowanaera
Amarr Celestial Janissaries Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.12 04:27:00 -
[55]
CVA are the only (so far) successful example of this kind of ideology, having established Providence as NRDS and open to anyone who can follow the rules (which basically consists of "don't pewpew what isn't hostile"). However, we are a unique example, and there are a number of reasons why our case isn't applicable to 0.0 at large.
First, we live in quite possibly the worst 0.0 region in Eve. Low-sec roids, 500k BS rats, not many good moons and no dyspro moons, etc. This means that none of the major powers who could steamroll the region and claim it themselves or install pets actually would, because there's nothing to gain from it. So, while everybody and their brother loves to come here in roaming gank gangs, there's not been much contention of sov since we drove U'K out and secured all of Providence under our/allied banners 7 months ago. While we remain ever vigilant and prepared with the expectation that one day someone will come for us, it does allow the region some degree of stability compared to more valuable areas.
Second, we're RPers, which means we have loyalties both to the alliance and region beyond that of most alliances. We're more willing to defend the space with everything we've got, we have a more stable membership with better retention of high-SP players, and we're less likely to suffer from morale "failure cascades" when things turn ugly. Our regional allies who aren't RP entities themselves have years-old ties to the area, and so are likewise committed.
Third, we're next to Empire, with four direct Empire access points as well as the nearby Catch entrance via HED. This makes it easy for neutrals to get in and out of our space, and it also enables us to fund ourselves via Empire-based production, missioning, etc rather than having to directly compete with neutrals for the poor resources in Providence. Those in deeper 0.0 regions have to pretty much rely on ratting and mining locally to sustain themselves at a membership level, and so allowing neutrals to come in and compete for those resources hurts the alliance.
Fourth, we don't tout ourselves as carebears or creators of a "safe haven for all", as others have done. 0.0 is not a safe place no matter what you do, and we try to make it clear to any neutrals who come that we are not CONCORD and their safety is their own responsibility, our only promise is that we won't shoot any peaceful people for just being here. The aforementioned easy access to Providence makes it a breeding ground for hostiles. Nobody who joins CVA has any illusions about how peaceful it's going to be, Providence is the favorite hunting ground for a lot of the south, all manner of empire-based gankers, and various roaming entities (CI for example, who merged into Tri and have brought their new friends down here now). The constant combat makes us stronger and also discourages those neutral leeches who are incapable and unwilling to provide for their own security, allowing the rest to thrive. Compare that to other historical organizations who have actively encouraged out-and-out carebears to come and live in their space with a "we'll keep you safe" motto, while having little military strength of their own, and not getting enough day-to-day combat to convince PvPers to stay in the alliance, leading to a massive crushing defeat when properly tested in the slightest.
A strong PvP alliance in good 0.0 space has little real incentive to open their space to outsiders, and if they choose to do so, would likely find themselves losing membership due to boredom from lack of fighting, frustration over resource competition, the headaches caused by operating NRDS (it is definitely inconvenient compared to NBSI, and game mechanics actively work against it), and general stagnation from having to babysit whiny neutral carebears with entitlement complexes. Providence is a unique exception to the rule, not a proof that the idea is universally feasible.
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LUH 3471
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Posted - 2007.12.12 07:10:00 -
[56]
posting in an epic cyvok thread
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Kyrie Elaison
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2007.12.12 08:33:00 -
[57]
Why? Successful alliances mix fighting and building without overdoing either. You're essentially arguing for a welfare check, in the form of 0.0 rewards, for those unwilling or unable to take their own space. Your dream is cute, but you really need to try visiting more regions. Some areas already have thriving markets, considering the number of people around, without this type of suggestion.
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Phoenix Pryde
Caldari 3-I Area 42
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Posted - 2007.12.12 09:54:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Zaphod Jones stuff ASCN, bring back Xetic
\o/
TRUST sales management |
Gibson Rothman
HOMELESS. Band of Bums
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Posted - 2007.12.12 10:11:00 -
[59]
Spare change? More Heads, More Silver
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Vile rat
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.12.12 14:47:00 -
[60]
Why do some people seem to think that the best rewards in the game should be readily available to those who have neither the desire nor ability to ensure that availability?
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Iratus Caelestis
KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.12 15:25:00 -
[61]
There was talk back in 2004 that one of the things sovereignty would eventually bring would be the ability to raise the security status of systems and install gate guns.
This is the only way you're way is practical, as by a logical extension you could get to the point where you hire NPC guards like Concord in space you've established as an alliance.
I think this would be a cool extension of the non pvp aspects of the game and would make eve as a whole a much richer experience, but you need ways to displace people still, even if its not practical through brute force.
So maybe before you could do this to a region you'd have to become a public limited company, your logic being that Concord wouldn't permit a standing army for a company that wasn't accountable to shareholders.
Then the way to take over that Sovereignty level 6712 space could be through co-ordinated stock manipulation and hostile takeovers. Now that'd be pretty fricking cool. Would give our resident economist a real playing field too.
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Arcuied
The Really Awesome Players
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Posted - 2007.12.12 18:15:00 -
[62]
To op - simple answer - stop posting about it and DO it - a thread like this comes up every while - but no one tries - take some initiative and go ahead.
No point hiding behind an alt and saying "ha guys why dont you do this and this......." Covert operative/High Risk hauler
All operations considered, hard/near impossible ones just cost more.... |
ardik
TunkbwahCorp
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Posted - 2007.12.12 18:34:00 -
[63]
Why would anyone go to 0.0 to make isk? You make far, far more in high sec.
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TroNaaR
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.12 18:41:00 -
[64]
Poasting in a thread about a three-way
Good luck to those on the bottom! Wherever you go... There you are...
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Martin VanBuren
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.12.12 18:47:00 -
[65]
Guys I have this great idea I will found an alliance in 0.0 that operates on NRDS, is established in bad-space so it won't be that desirable to conquer, and will endlessly post on eve-o about the wonderful market we are creating and our dream of bringing Empire to 0.0.
Also whenever we get in trouble we will just hire the MC they will save us ^_^
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Dafuzz
Gallente Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.12.13 01:46:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Martin VanBuren Guys I have this great idea I will found an alliance in 0.0 that operates on NRDS, is established in bad-space so it won't be that desirable to conquer, and will endlessly post on eve-o about the wonderful market we are creating and our dream of bringing Empire to 0.0.
Also whenever we get in trouble we will just hire the MC they will save us ^_^
x me up
I am tired of being a pirate
--
-If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets.. |
Ostr0mir
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2007.12.13 04:33:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Ostr0mir on 13/12/2007 04:33:59 Edited by: Ostr0mir on 13/12/2007 04:33:15 It won't work, because carebears cannot fight for themselves.
Moreover, such "Jita unleashed" is going to attract PLENTY of strong PvP corporations. That will enjoy their piece of cake, of course.
Who's going to profit from this institution, after all?
^^^^ Posting with my main. For the Brutor tribe! |
128th ABC123
Eve Liberation Force Sylph Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.13 11:58:00 -
[68]
Define carebear.
Having some insight or lacking ADHD and being able to sit still in a station to manage the market or take the time to collect some resources doesn't make people a carebear IMHO.
I do exploration, mining, i have blueprints etc.
But I do pvp alot too, and no I don't get owned all the time.
I think to respond to the OP (because I doubt he put it up to get flamed, but expecting some constructive feedback or criticism.) CVA has something similair allready ongoing, if you have behave and follow their NRDS rules providence is open to you. Their stations and services are open to anyone. However the problem is that you cannot expect nor rely on an alliance like CVA to police it's space 24/7.
In this case the population in providence (some people lovingly call them CVA pet corps) gang up on intruders. However they lack the organization and experience to tackle any of the big invaders, like now with the Tri Invasion.
You're Utopia has been tried and tested, ASCN showed it's a system that will not work. It crumbles upon it's own inactivity and disorganization. Involvement of members in crucial.
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes |
Corphus
The NewOrder
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Posted - 2007.12.13 14:52:00 -
[69]
the idea of ascn was to create a selfsufficient empire in 0.0. it failed due to many things such as inflitration, treason, leechery, lack of leadership, greed, intrigue, lack of military skill, etc.
ascn was that type of alliance that needed a strong and powerful military alliance to compensate its lack of warmachine in exchange for its enourmous industrial power. ascn generated trillions of isk and was expanding insaneley fast. bob felt itself endangered by such a neighbor, and acted preemptively resulting in an invasion lasting over 5 months and leading to ascns downfall.
i think that there must been big personal differences between cyvok and his staff and the bob leadership which hindered the relations between those factions. it would be interesting to know what happened if ascn and bob would have allied.
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Sanctus Maleficus
Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.12.13 16:43:00 -
[70]
I've personally always been a big fan of this idea.
For it to work, I think the biggest key would be having very excellent diplomats, having a lot to offer would-be enemies, and having your guests in the region limited to certain areas, and charge them a small fee.
I've always thought that people don't value peace or trade enough, in Eve. People turn to war far too easily. There is great power in true diplomacy.
However, it is just a game. ;)
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Aiolos Caci
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.12.13 18:32:00 -
[71]
Does anyone ever read CAOD posts past the first page? LOL I know I don't :)
To the OP: Such utopia, if ever implemented, would result in Chinese Yuan farmers taking over the region (Hi KOS). It would rely explicitly on a simple principle of non-aggression to be recognized by every single member of EVE player base. When you figure out how to do it, call me, I'll come guns ablazing :) |
Kai Zion
Amarr The Zion Accounts
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Posted - 2007.12.13 23:12:00 -
[72]
Murtala your idea is flawed from inception, interesting and noble as it is. It's flawed for pretty much the same reason that alliances like CFS, Xetic and ASCN fell apart:
Sheperds and Sheep.
The moment you split individuals into just one of those roles is the moment you make them lose a vital part of their independence. Vital in terms of lasting success, that is. To put it more dramatically, it's the moment you turn them into what are ultimately, when it matters, useless slaves.
In a situation of co-dependency you cannot build people into self-reliant fighter-industrialists, can you? You cannot build a successful and more importantly, a lasting foundation on that. Eventually that little house of cards will come down.
Look at the entities of Eve where each individual member is capable of looking after themselves both economically and militarily. It's no coincidence that they see the lasting successes they do. You can't break them anywhere near as easily as a tiered co-dependent structure: - There is no weak point, no foundational layer of soft targets that you can attack. When you fight them you are fighting their scientists alongside their fleet commanders, their production and refining experts alongside the battle-hardened soldiers. In your crosshairs you see only a fleet of willing combatants perpetually at the ready to fight. - There is no Fighter/Industrialist dichotomy to weaken them, no in-fighting to be exploited between the various "classes". No fighters claiming they "do all the work" and no industrialists claiming "they're never appreciated".
And so on...but not only are they hard to defeat, they're also concurrently achieving things at a far more efficient rate than a split, tiered system can. If lasting success is what you ultimately judge an entity by, not fleeting moments of glory - then you can see what I mean by "efficient" here. Not necessarily the biggest or the baddest - but a system built to last from the atomic level (each individual, in this case, represents the "atom").
So no, you can't "invite a carebear alliance" to space you claim to police and protect and build some lasting empire. If any group in the empire you build is dependent upon anyone other than themselves for their survival, eventually it will break down. It can take a long time, but it will always happen. Eventually there will come a day when there's more wolves than there are sheperds and it will get quite bloody indeed... ^,..,^
It's no coincidence that Star Fraction visited your previous thread, by the way. When it comes to successful approaches to the sorts of things you seek, they're one of the only ones in this whole cluster with an answer that has stood the test of time and hardship. One of the things that makes them unique amongst that small group is that they'll share those "secrets" with anyone who cares to listen, they're quite proud of them and I'd say rightly so. Quite a few have listened too, over the years. It's why I'm telling you this now, in fact. I started a thread much like this a long time ago and I ended up finding out the things I'm telling you now that way.
We have a little circle of life going on here...
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Dose One
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.12.13 23:53:00 -
[73]
Originally by: BuIIseye I had a dream, of a three some
^^^ A dream proudly lived. ^^^
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Kaaii
Caldari Kaaii-Net Research Labs
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Posted - 2007.12.14 20:19:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Dose One
Originally by: BuIIseye I had a dream, of a three some
^^^ A dream proudly lived. ^^^
Family members, don't count
According to Oveur, existing LSAA's already anchored will stay there. kieron Director of Community Relations,
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