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Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.12.12 02:02:00 - [1] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 12/12/2007 02:11:31 Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 12/12/2007 02:02:45 Ok so ccp nerfed the racial ew for amarr recons, the nos. Nos only works when your cap is lower then the enemy cap. So at equal cap amarr recon racial stops working. Hmm How would gallente feel if they could only damp their targets down to their own scan resolution and not below that? How would caldari feel if they only could jam people down to the amount of targets they are locking themselves at that moment? How would minmatar feel if they only could slow down ships to their own speed with ranged web? They would all feel that ccp had broken their racial ew. Anyone else think ccp should fix amarr recon ew? Fix nos? --------------------------------------------- [Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2007.12.12 02:03:00 - [2] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Ok so ccp nerfed the racial ew for amarr recons, the nos. Nos only works when your cap is lower then the enemy cap. So at equal cap amarr recon racial stops working. Hmm How would gallente feel if they could only damp their targets down to their own scan resolution and not below that? How would caldari feel if they only could jam people down to the amount of targets they are locking themselves at that monent? How would minmatar feel if they only could slow down ships to their own speed with ranged web? They would all feel that ccp had broken their racial ew. I don't know how I would feel if the above proposed changes took place, but I do know that I would feel great if you would just STFU. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I
PathetiQ Gallente Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.12 02:05:00 - [3] nos have been nerf... ya right , my domi suffer a little bit! ecm have already been nerf... damp just got nerf and yeah gallente recon so we all feel it!! ::Killing Space Monkey Since 1969::
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.12.12 02:05:00 - [4] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Ok so ccp nerfed the racial ew for amarr recons, the nos. Nos only works when your cap is lower then the enemy cap. So at equal cap amarr recon racial stops working. Hmm How would gallente feel if they could only damp their targets down to their own scan resolution and not below that? How would caldari feel if they only could jam people down to the amount of targets they are locking themselves at that monent? How would minmatar feel if they only could slow down ships to their own speed with ranged web? They would all feel that ccp had broken their racial ew. I don't know how I would feel if the above proposed changes took place, but I do know that I would feel great if you would just STFU. Oh did my post make you sad? Poor baby... --------------------------------------------- [Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.12.12 02:06:00 - [5] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 12/12/2007 02:07:01 Originally by: PathetiQ nos have been nerf... ya right , my domi suffer a little bit! ecm have already been nerf... damp just got nerf and yeah gallente recon so we all feel it!! But why should amarr racial, the nos, stop working when your cap is equal but gallante racial, the damp, should be able to damp someone below your own scan resolution? It doesnt make sense. So no, I dont think you feel the suckage of nos. --------------------------------------------- [Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2007.12.12 02:07:00 - [6] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Ok so ccp nerfed the racial ew for amarr recons, the nos. Nos only works when your cap is lower then the enemy cap. So at equal cap amarr recon racial stops working. Hmm How would gallente feel if they could only damp their targets down to their own scan resolution and not below that? How would caldari feel if they only could jam people down to the amount of targets they are locking themselves at that monent? How would minmatar feel if they only could slow down ships to their own speed with ranged web? They would all feel that ccp had broken their racial ew. I don't know how I would feel if the above proposed changes took place, but I do know that I would feel great if you would just STFU. Oh did my post make you sad? Poor baby... Sad? No. Annoyed? No. Pity that you're so lame? Yep. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.12.12 02:08:00 - [7] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Ok so ccp nerfed the racial ew for amarr recons, the nos. Nos only works when your cap is lower then the enemy cap. So at equal cap amarr recon racial stops working. Hmm How would gallente feel if they could only damp their targets down to their own scan resolution and not below that? How would caldari feel if they only could jam people down to the amount of targets they are locking themselves at that monent? How would minmatar feel if they only could slow down ships to their own speed with ranged web? They would all feel that ccp had broken their racial ew. I don't know how I would feel if the above proposed changes took place, but I do know that I would feel great if you would just STFU. Oh did my post make you sad? Poor baby... Sad? No. Annoyed? No. Pity that you're so lame? Yep. Ok deal, you can be my favorite troll. I'll give you cookies and pet you every night...so you dont have to cry. --------------------------------------------- [Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice
Boran Tisk	Posted - 2007.12.12 02:15:00 - [8] Tracking disrupters? energy neuts? I'll admit it...Im confused
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.12.12 02:20:00 - [9] Originally by: Boran Tisk Tracking disrupters? energy neuts? I'll admit it...Im confused Each races recon gets a combo ew. (except caldari get dual bonus ecm) Gallente: Damps+Scramble range Caldari: ECM range+strength Minmatar: TP+Web range Amarr: Nos+TDs The sum of each racial ew working together should be balanced. Now gallente use damps to disable ships, caldari ecm and minmatar webs. Amarr uses a combo of nos and TDs. Problem is nos/neuts dont really work for disabling ships like they used to and add that up with TDs behind pretty sub par it makes the amarr recon ew total pretty poor. Nos needs to work like the pre nerf nos on amarr recons and EAS. Easy fix. --------------------------------------------- [Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2007.12.12 02:23:00 - [10] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 12/12/2007 02:11:31 Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 12/12/2007 02:02:45 Ok so ccp nerfed the racial ew for amarr recons, the nos. Nos only works when your cap is lower then the enemy cap. So at equal cap amarr recon racial stops working. Hmm How would gallente feel if they could only damp their targets down to their own scan resolution and not below that? How would caldari feel if they only could jam people down to the amount of targets they are locking themselves at that moment? How would minmatar feel if they only could slow down ships to their own speed with ranged web? They would all feel that ccp had broken their racial ew. Anyone else think ccp should fix amarr recon ew? Fix nos? It doesnt seem like ccp wanted to nerf the curse and pilgrim,but the domi...However since the curse and pilgrim did get nerfed i would propose that they be changed(better neut power or some different form of nos bonus)rather then nerf all ewar ships as they are the ones that should NOT be nerfed.
Vaal Erit	Posted - 2007.12.12 02:24:00 - [11] Hey, Nos and Neuts are high slot modules while RSDs and jammers are mid slot modules. That's hardly fair isn't it. Hell you have 150m3 drone bay and caldari recons have 0m3, that's not fair. P.S. You are an idiot P.P.S. I fly Minmatar, want to switch NOS/NEUT/TD bonus for target painter bonus? P.P.P.S. If you think the Curse is broken you are dumb, Pilgrim could use a good fix though.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.12.12 02:24:00 - [12] Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 12/12/2007 02:11:31 Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 12/12/2007 02:02:45 Ok so ccp nerfed the racial ew for amarr recons, the nos. Nos only works when your cap is lower then the enemy cap. So at equal cap amarr recon racial stops working. Hmm How would gallente feel if they could only damp their targets down to their own scan resolution and not below that? How would caldari feel if they only could jam people down to the amount of targets they are locking themselves at that moment? How would minmatar feel if they only could slow down ships to their own speed with ranged web? They would all feel that ccp had broken their racial ew. Anyone else think ccp should fix amarr recon ew? Fix nos? It doesnt seem like ccp wanted to nerf the curse and pilgrim,but the domi...However since the curse and pilgrim did get nerfed i would propose that they be changed(better neut power or some different form of nos bonus)rather then nerf all ewar ships as they are the ones that should NOT be nerfed. I totally agree. --------------------------------------------- [Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.12.12 02:26:00 - [13] Originally by: Vaal Erit Hey, Nos and Neuts are high slot modules while RSDs and jammers are mid slot modules. That's hardly fair isn't it. Hell you have 150m3 drone bay and caldari recons have 0m3, that's not fair. P.S. You are an idiot P.P.S. I fly Minmatar, want to switch NOS/NEUT/TD bonus for target painter bonus? P.P.P.S. If you think the Curse is broken you are dumb, Pilgrim could use a good fix though. No youre dumb, if you think i wouldnt make rapier/huggin amarr ships and curse/pilgrim minmatar ships if i could do magic youre dead wrong. Nos on amarr recons and eas should work like the old nos. --------------------------------------------- [Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice
Tai Paktu Kiith Paktu Nex Eternus	Posted - 2007.12.12 02:26:00 - [14] Unless I missed a patch, the Amarr e-war bonus on the Curse and Pilgrim apply to both neutralizers and nos. When CCP introduced the nos nerf, it added the neut bonus (unless it was already there, I can't remember). So now you have 3 racial ewar. ZOMG! Amarr has more than everyone else at something! Oh, and damps just got teh nerf, target painting is only a half-decent ewar and ECM just got boosted from about a year and a bit of nerfage. We all learn to deal with the changes in the game and poasting in the forums rarely helps with the coping. Unless this is like the 12 stages of grief. In which case, let 'er rip. __________________________ Sig Starts here! Don't even start. Originally by: ISD Santiago Cortes Cleaned Please try and keep the flamage to a minimum, failing that, at least raise the quality.
Xequecal	Posted - 2007.12.12 02:27:00 - [15] Curse was overpowered with the old NOS and is still really good now. Yeah, the Pilgrim is a pile of suck now, but then again so are the Rook, Arazu, and Lachesis.
Xequecal	Posted - 2007.12.12 02:28:00 - [16] Edited by: Xequecal on 12/12/2007 02:28:36 Originally by: Vaal Erit Hey, Nos and Neuts are high slot modules while RSDs and jammers are mid slot modules. That's hardly fair isn't it. Hell you have 150m3 drone bay and caldari recons have 0m3, that's not fair. P.S. You are an idiot P.P.S. I fly Minmatar, want to switch NOS/NEUT/TD bonus for target painter bonus? P.P.P.S. If you think the Curse is broken you are dumb, Pilgrim could use a good fix though. However, this post is funny. You do realize the Huginn could have every bonus except for the web one stripped and it would still be the best recon, right? Hell, it could have 3x penalties added in place of the three non-web bonuses and it would still be the best recon.
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.12.12 02:30:00 - [17] Yes by all means, restore Nos to its former dual cap generating/cap destroying abilities. It's not like it was grossly overpowered the way it was, right? In other news, the Amarr lost their solopwnmobile named Curse, so what? --- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.12.12 02:30:00 - [18] Originally by: Tai Paktu Unless I missed a patch, the Amarr e-war bonus on the Curse and Pilgrim apply to both neutralizers and nos. When CCP introduced the nos nerf, it added the neut bonus (unless it was already there, I can't remember). So now you have 3 racial ewar. ZOMG! Amarr has more than everyone else at something! Oh, and damps just got teh nerf, target painting is only a half-decent ewar and ECM just got boosted from about a year and a bit of nerfage. We all learn to deal with the changes in the game and poasting in the forums rarely helps with the coping. Unless this is like the 12 stages of grief. In which case, let 'er rip. You have no clue about nos/neut warfare have you? Have you flown curse/pilgrim or even an arbitrator? The issue is a curse and pilgrim hurt themselves by trying to disabling an enemy ship. Wich other recons ew slaps them back in the face when they try to use it against an enemy ship? Thought so... --------------------------------------------- [Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.12.12 02:32:00 - [19] Originally by: Ogul Yes by all means, restore Nos to its former dual cap generating/cap destroying abilities. It's not like it was grossly overpowered the way it was, right? In other news, the Amarr lost their solopwnmobile named Curse, so what? Uhm excuse me but isnt that what damps, webs and ecm do? DAMPS TANK YOU WEBS TANK YOU ECM TANKS YOU just like nos tanks the curse and pilgrim. mkay? kkthxbai. --------------------------------------------- [Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice
hellsknights RennTech SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.12 02:32:00 - [20] The difference between NOS and Damps......Nos the most cripling EW in the game a curse/pilgrim could NOS you try and a very short period of time. Same with the old Damps, it was a huge advantage. But now, NOS is simple keep you cap low drain your enenmy dry, then cap boost yourself to continue the fight, seems legit. Damps well you chose right lock speed/lock distance and if your victim is fast he can easily counter your lock distance. TBH locking time is only usefull in very limited situations.
ArmyOfMe Exotic Dancers Club Nocturnal Legion	Posted - 2007.12.12 02:35:00 - [21] learn to play with what you got or train for something else. dont let your fail affect everyone else on the forums tho.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.12.12 02:36:00 - [22] Originally by: hellsknights The difference between NOS and Damps......Nos the most cripling EW in the game a curse/pilgrim could NOS you try and a very short period of time. Same with the old Damps, it was a huge advantage. But now, NOS is simple keep you cap low drain your enenmy dry, then cap boost yourself to continue the fight, seems legit. Damps well you chose right lock speed/lock distance and if your victim is fast he can easily counter your lock distance. TBH locking time is only usefull in very limited situations. No, neuts powered by own cap booster doesnt work in pvp where everyone fits cap boosters. Thats one of the reasons nos needs to work old school, because of cap booster use. I mean how can a pilgrim disable a battleship with a large booster and huge cap? By neuting him with a medium cap booster? Pilgrim would run out of boosters before hurting the battleship. But wait, the other recons can disable a battleship. How is this balanced again? Yeah.... --------------------------------------------- [Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.12.12 02:37:00 - [23] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Ogul Yes by all means, restore Nos to its former dual cap generating/cap destroying abilities. It's not like it was grossly overpowered the way it was, right? In other news, the Amarr lost their solopwnmobile named Curse, so what? Uhm excuse me but isnt that what damps, webs and ecm do? DAMPS TANK YOU WEBS TANK YOU ECM TANKS YOU just like nos tanks the curse and pilgrim. mkay? kkthxbai. No if you are looking for an analogue try lasers that damage your opponent while at the same time repairing your armor. And for your capital letter madness: reps tank you, hardeners tank you - Nerf them all!! --- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.12.12 02:37:00 - [24] Originally by: ArmyOfMe learn to play with what you got or train for something else. dont let your fail affect everyone else on the forums tho. Yea, I only fly the good amarr ships. Im not touching curse and pilgrim until they fix it. --------------------------------------------- [Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.12.12 02:40:00 - [25] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 12/12/2007 02:40:59 Originally by: Ogul Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Ogul Yes by all means, restore Nos to its former dual cap generating/cap destroying abilities. It's not like it was grossly overpowered the way it was, right? In other news, the Amarr lost their solopwnmobile named Curse, so what? Uhm excuse me but isnt that what damps, webs and ecm do? DAMPS TANK YOU WEBS TANK YOU ECM TANKS YOU just like nos tanks the curse and pilgrim. mkay? kkthxbai. No if you are looking for an analogue try lasers that damage your opponent while at the same time repairing your armor. And for your capital letter madness: reps tank you, hardeners tank you - Nerf them all!! No there is nothing wrong with the analogy. Damps disable a ship AND tank the gallente recon pretty much ECM disables a ship AND tanks the caldari recon completely Webs disable a ship AND tank the minmatar recon to some degree Its not much to ask that nos fuels the amarr recon tank and cripples the enemy at the same time. --------------------------------------------- [Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice
Tai Paktu Kiith Paktu Nex Eternus	Posted - 2007.12.12 02:42:00 - [26] Edited by: Tai Paktu on 12/12/2007 02:43:42 ninja edit for failing at distinguishing between are and aren't First off, you've already flamed someone for being a troll. And yet, at the first sign of dissenting opinions, it's time to get start bashing n00bs who don't understand your argument. So play nice. Moving on, no, I have not flown a Curse. I have flown a large number of ships with nos and neuts fitted and they all work on the same mechanic, the difference is how good they are at it (range, amound drained, etc.) Yes, neuts drain your cap. Yes, nos only works when your targets cap is above yours. So maybe a good plan is to wait til you stop getting the benefit from nos and then hit the neuts since you know it means his cap is low, then get the nos benefit again when your target boosts. But what do I know, I'm just a silly n00b who has never flown a Curse and therefore have no idea how to fly a ship with neuts and nos like a Domi or a Vexor properly. You're also sidestepping the issue of multiple e-war systems and the fact that recons aren't solopwnmbiles, at least they weren't meant to be and are being hemmed in that direction. If you want to say that TDs now suck too post Trinity, fine. But then I should go make a damp whine thread too. Lastly, I could find you a number of posts in theser forums by accomplished PvPers claiming that the Curse, and even the Pilgrim, can be effective PvP ships when fitted and flown to their strengths, same as any recon. I await your counterflame. __________________________ Sig Starts here! Don't even start. Originally by: ISD Santiago Cortes Cleaned Please try and keep the flamage to a minimum, failing that, at least raise the quality.
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.12.12 02:44:00 - [27] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer I mean how can a pilgrim disable a battleship with a large booster and huge cap? By neuting him with a medium cap booster? Pilgrim would run out of boosters before hurting the battleship. But wait, the other recons can disable a battleship. How is this balanced again? Yeah.... You are absolutely right, it's not like a medium neut on a pilgrim is more effective AND more efficient than a large neut on a battleship, is it? --- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec.
Wrayeth Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.12.12 02:45:00 - [28] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Gallente: Damps+Scramble range Caldari: ECM range+strength Minmatar: TP+Web range Amarr: Neuts+Nos+TDs Fixed. Please note the only race that gets 3 EW types. -Wrayeth n00b Extraordinaire "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.12.12 02:46:00 - [29] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 12/12/2007 02:45:50 Originally by: Tai Paktu First off, you've already flamed someone for being a troll. And yet, at the first sign of dissenting opinions, it's time to get start bashing n00bs who don't understand your argument. So play nice. Moving on, no, I have not flown a Curse. I have flown a large number of ships with nos and neuts fitted and they all work on the same mechanic, the difference is how good they are at it (range, amound drained, etc.) Yes, neuts drain your cap. Yes, nos only works when your targets cap is above yours. So maybe a good plan is to wait til you stop getting the benefit from nos and then hit the neuts since you know it means his cap is low, then get the nos benefit again when your target boosts. But what do I know, I'm just a silly n00b who has never flown a Curse and therefore have no idea how to fly a ship with neuts and nos like a Domi or a Vexor properly. You're also sidestepping the issue of multiple e-war systems and the fact that recons are solopwnmbiles, at least they weren't meant to be and are being hemmed in that direction. If you want to say that TDs now suck too post Trinity, fine. But then I should go make a damp whine thread too. Lastly, I could find you a number of posts in theser forums by accomplished PvPers claiming that the Curse, and even the Pilgrim, can be effective PvP ships when fitted and flown to their strengths, same as any recon. I await your counterflame. Go fit a vexor, i assume youre gallente, with nos/neuts + drones. No blasters or rails. Then you go try fight something bigger then you, like a bc. Youll understand how nos/neut thing doesnt work. Youll get raped before you can "wait until nos has done its thing and switch to neut". It doesnt work. Im sorry but other recons can disable a battleship without disabling themselves, same should be the case from pilgrim and curse. --------------------------------------------- [Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.12.12 02:49:00 - [30] Originally by: Ogul Edited by: Ogul on 12/12/2007 02:47:40 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer I mean how can a pilgrim disable a battleship with a large booster and huge cap? By neuting him with a medium cap booster? Pilgrim would run out of boosters before hurting the battleship. But wait, the other recons can disable a battleship. How is this balanced again? Yeah.... You are absolutely right, it's not like a medium neut on a pilgrim is more effective AND more efficient than a large neut on a battleship, is it? Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Its not much to ask that nos fuels the amarr recon tank and cripples the enemy at the same time. The sad thing is that it is not your stupidity talking here, you are trolling on purpose. Bring back the simple times where more nos equalled win? Now that would be fun... Please explain to me why other recons can disable a battleship without hurting themselves while amarr recons would struggle and even if they succeed burning all their cap and boosters? --------------------------------------------- [Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice
Wrayeth Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.12.12 02:58:00 - [31] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Does it matter? 3xsuck is <<<< 1ximba webber/ecm You've never gotten neutralized to the point where you couldn't run your tank or anything else, have you? -Wrayeth n00b Extraordinaire "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Tai Paktu Kiith Paktu Nex Eternus	Posted - 2007.12.12 02:58:00 - [32] Why would I try to solo something I know my shop can't handle, unless it was for fun? That's just silly. I have fitted my Vexor with only nos/neuts and a speed fit as well as other fits with tanks, relying on my drones for damage. Know what I found? That I wish my ship had a range bonus to nos and neuts so I could do my cap warfare outside web range. ECM can disable a battleship solo. Except for one with FoFs Yes, I agree. I can fly Caldari recons and I love my jammers, even before the boost. Are they above and beyond other e-war now, I'd say that's a fairly accurate statement. Nerf cycles are terrible though, and a boost to the other e-wars would be a better plan. Back to ECM. Yeah, I'll survive the BS' but I don't have the dps to break his tank and even when he runs out of boosters my missiles will be slow eating his armour or shield. Eventually I'll either miss a cycle or his friends come. Damps, well they were able to obliterate a BS' lock time and range, and with enough of them you still can. But again, the DPS just isn't there from the Lachesis or the Arazu. Rapier/Huginn are fun to screw with nanogangs but they'll have a tough time solo'ing a BS as well. An Amarr recon, well you can remove the targets active tank quicker than we can by forcing him to cap boost and use those charges. Which means although your DPS is by no means phenomenal (they're recons after all), you can evade his turrets, stay out of web range and whittle his cap away. Does this solve the issue of recons being less effective solo than they were pre-nos nerf? No. But then again, when ECM got nerfed the first time it was because a multispec was a filler mod, something you put in because you knew it'd get jams no matter what it was on. ECM never stopped working on the dedicated ships and while I can see your argument that nos isn't working the way it did before on your dedicated ships, it is still viable, unlike fitting a multispec on my Vexor and hoping for anything more than 1 jam in a fight. As for the solo'ing of a BS, all those recons will probably survive. Unless it's a torp raven with FoFs. Because then they're all equally screwed. /me waits for the Caldari Online flames to start. __________________________ Sig Starts here! Don't even start. Originally by: ISD Santiago Cortes Cleaned Please try and keep the flamage to a minimum, failing that, at least raise the quality.
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.12.12 02:59:00 - [33] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Please explain to me why other recons can disable a battleship without hurting themselves while amarr recons would struggle and even if they succeed burning all their cap and boosters? Please explain to me what you mean by disabling first. Caldari and Gallente recons affect the ability to lock targets. Minmatar recons affect movement. The pre-nosnerf Amarr recons affected damage dealing abilities AND tanking abilities AND movement while at the same time increasing their tanking abilities AND movement. The post-nosnerf Amarr recons are no longer guaranteed to kill battleships on their own - just like every other recon in the game. --- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.12.12 03:03:00 - [34] Originally by: Ogul Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Please explain to me why other recons can disable a battleship without hurting themselves while amarr recons would struggle and even if they succeed burning all their cap and boosters? Please explain to me what you mean by disabling first. Caldari and Gallente recons affect the ability to lock targets. Minmatar recons affect movement. The pre-nosnerf Amarr recons affected damage dealing abilities AND tanking abilities AND movement while at the same time increasing their tanking abilities AND movement. The post-nosnerf Amarr recons are no longer guaranteed to kill battleships on their own - just like every other recon in the game. Disabling meaning that they cant hurt anyone around them. Wich is what all the other recons do. All the other recons simply remove enemies from a fight. This is ccps fault in a way. They constructed pilgrim and curse more like a solo vessel then a gang vessel. After they nerfed their main weapon they feel very roleless. --------------------------------------------- [Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.12.12 03:04:00 - [35] Originally by: Tai Paktu As for the solo'ing of a BS, all those recons will probably survive. Unless it's a torp raven with FoFs. Because then they're all equally screwed. WTB FoF torps. (Yes, I know you meant cruise.) --- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.12.12 03:04:00 - [36] Originally by: Tai Paktu Why would I try to solo something I know my shop can't handle, unless it was for fun? That's just silly. I have fitted my Vexor with only nos/neuts and a speed fit as well as other fits with tanks, relying on my drones for damage. Know what I found? That I wish my ship had a range bonus to nos and neuts so I could do my cap warfare outside web range. ECM can disable a battleship solo. Except for one with FoFs Yes, I agree. I can fly Caldari recons and I love my jammers, even before the boost. Are they above and beyond other e-war now, I'd say that's a fairly accurate statement. Nerf cycles are terrible though, and a boost to the other e-wars would be a better plan. Back to ECM. Yeah, I'll survive the BS' but I don't have the dps to break his tank and even when he runs out of boosters my missiles will be slow eating his armour or shield. Eventually I'll either miss a cycle or his friends come. Damps, well they were able to obliterate a BS' lock time and range, and with enough of them you still can. But again, the DPS just isn't there from the Lachesis or the Arazu. Rapier/Huginn are fun to screw with nanogangs but they'll have a tough time solo'ing a BS as well. An Amarr recon, well you can remove the targets active tank quicker than we can by forcing him to cap boost and use those charges. Which means although your DPS is by no means phenomenal (they're recons after all), you can evade his turrets, stay out of web range and whittle his cap away. Does this solve the issue of recons being less effective solo than they were pre-nos nerf? No. But then again, when ECM got nerfed the first time it was because a multispec was a filler mod, something you put in because you knew it'd get jams no matter what it was on. ECM never stopped working on the dedicated ships and while I can see your argument that nos isn't working the way it did before on your dedicated ships, it is still viable, unlike fitting a multispec on my Vexor and hoping for anything more than 1 jam in a fight. As for the solo'ing of a BS, all those recons will probably survive. Unless it's a torp raven with FoFs. Because then they're all equally screwed. /me waits for the Caldari Online flames to start. I understand what youre saying. What needs to be done is either make curse/pilgrim as useful as the other recons in gangs or give curse/pilgrim their old unique roles back. Solo recons. --------------------------------------------- [Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.12.12 03:05:00 - [37] Originally by: Ogul Originally by: Tai Paktu As for the solo'ing of a BS, all those recons will probably survive. Unless it's a torp raven with FoFs. Because then they're all equally screwed. WTB FoF torps. (Yes, I know you meant cruise.) lol --------------------------------------------- [Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice
Ulstan	Posted - 2007.12.12 03:07:00 - [38] If you don't understand why NOS was nerfed you fail at EVE.
KD.Fluffy The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.12.12 07:16:00 - [39] Edited by: KD.Fluffy on 12/12/2007 07:20:21 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Ok so ccp nerfed the racial ew for amarr recons, the nos. Nos only works when your cap is lower then the enemy cap. So at equal cap amarr recon racial stops working. Hmm How would gallente feel if they could only damp their targets down to their own scan resolution and not below that? How would caldari feel if they only could jam people down to the amount of targets they are locking themselves at that monent? How would minmatar feel if they only could slow down ships to their own speed with ranged web? They would all feel that ccp had broken their racial ew. I don't know how I would feel if the above proposed changes took place, but I do know that I would feel great if you would just STFU. Oh did my post make you sad? Poor baby... Sad? No. Annoyed? No. Pity that you're so lame? Yep. Ok deal, you can be my favorite troll. I'll give you cookies and pet you every night...so you dont have to cry. dude your whole thread is a troll. amarr still have neuts. Stop crying and get over it. Quote: I understand what youre saying. What needs to be done is either make curse/pilgrim as useful as the other recons in gangs or give curse/pilgrim their old unique roles back. Solo recons. uhm what are you smoking because I want some of it. A curse will still cap ships out faster then you can say 'what just happened to my cap' If you fit it right. Same goes for the pilgrim. You just have to be smart about it. Stop crying and adapt. Boost The Eagle!
Trigos Trilobi Man-Eating Village Idiots	Posted - 2007.12.12 07:20:00 - [40] Edited by: Trigos Trilobi on 12/12/2007 07:23:44 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Ok so ccp nerfed the racial ew for amarr recons, the nos. Nos only works when your cap is lower then the enemy cap. So at equal cap amarr recon racial stops working. Hmm How would gallente feel if they could only damp their targets down to their own scan resolution and not below that? How would caldari feel if they only could jam people down to the amount of targets they are locking themselves at that moment? How would minmatar feel if they only could slow down ships to their own speed with ranged web? They would all feel that ccp had broken their racial ew. Anyone else think ccp should fix amarr recon ew? Fix nos? Neuts seem to care diddly squat about the opponent cap vs your cap so your argument fails right there at the beginning. Also, I assume you'd then want webs both slow the enemy AND speed yourself up? Tracking disruptors that disrupt opponents tracking and increase yours? Damps that improve your own lock range and speed at the expense of opponents? I think you didn't really think this through at all.. Only thing you imo managed to prove there was that it's neuts you should compare to other ew since nos works fundamentally different as it both hinders the enemy AND gives you a boost, and incindentally that was probably one of the main reasons nos got nerfed. There really isn't a nos-equivalent option for other ew so it's pointless to compare. Come back again once they improve webs that give you a speed boost while slowing down the enemy.
Kadoes Khan	Posted - 2007.12.12 07:51:00 - [41] I'd like to see a reduction in neut activation cost on amarr recons so they can actually run neuts without murdering their own cap at the same time. -=^=- "Someday the world will recognize the genius in my insanity."
shinsushi	Posted - 2007.12.12 08:05:00 - [42] Ok, where to begin... #1 Neuts: Hey these things are really great for kill cap, both yours and your enemies. The downside is that use of this modules more or less guarantees that your NOS will be useless for the duration of the fight. Cap boosters > Neuts on capless weapon ships (more than 50% of the ships in eve.) As soon as the enemy boosts, he can swallow all the cap he will need until the next boost, and as such your Neut hurts you and you alone. #2 Nos: This module is good for the first few seconds of a fight. Why not just overrun your ship and guarantee you will be lower on cap? Well, when the opponent does run dry, you are a sitting duck, a sitting duck with more cap need than a booster is going to provide. #3 TDs: This EW is the most limited in the game. It only works on turrets, and the optimal script is really only useful against lasers. All other forms of EW effect ALL ships, regardless of weapon selection or fit-out. Add to this a horrible range (useless for fleet distances) and you have a very pathetic EW on your hands. Counter arguments: #1 "Hey damps got nerfed too.": yes they did, but they are still very effective. 3 damps on a non-rigged Arazu will bring a 100km BS down to 17km, a 75km BS/BC/cruiser down to 13km (overloaded web range) and a 45km cruiser class ship down to 7 km. Damps can still operate at sniping ranges, and they will now with reduced sniping ranges thanks to the Sensor Booster Nerf. #2 "I was pwned by a Curse, they rock!": This means nothing, we have no data on the ship fitout, the progress of the fight or even what you had fitted. You could suck as a pilot. Imperical data > hearsay. #3 "I hate you" Join the fan club. An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument.
Elenath Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2007.12.12 08:16:00 - [43] Lyria, honestly, what's your goal with spamming the forums with these threads asking for nerfs? What is it you want? In other news, I like that new leash that I can see in Shinsushi's portrait! Keeps him from barking.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.12.12 13:01:00 - [44] Originally by: Ulstan If you don't understand why NOS was nerfed you fail at EVE. I do know but you dont know, mr I-dont-have-balls-to-troll-with-my-main. They wanted to nerf nos domi and pretty much everyone using nos that werent supposed to use it as a main weapon. Same reason they nerfed ecm, damps, tds. ccp unwillingly nerfed our recons in the process and now they have to fix them. --------------------------------------------- [Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.12.12 13:03:00 - [45] Originally by: Kadoes Khan I'd like to see a reduction in neut activation cost on amarr recons so they can actually run neuts without murdering their own cap at the same time. Yes this is the whole point. If ccp wants to kill the nos recon sure, but give the recons atleast doubled neut activation bonus. --------------------------------------------- [Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.12.12 13:04:00 - [46] Originally by: Elenath Edited by: Elenath on 12/12/2007 08:26:34 Lyria, honestly, what's your goal with spamming the forums with these threads asking for nerfs? What is it you want? I like to complain about a product Ive bought and isnt satisfying enough compared to what others have gotten with the same amount of money. --------------------------------------------- [Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice
Bruce Deorum Minmatar Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.12 13:40:00 - [47] The Amarr Recons are still the best "solo-pwn" Recons in the game. The only ships that come close to this role could be the Minmatar ones, but still they can solo ships that are un-tanked or way smaller than cruisers. Since nano is an all-out trend, and these are the best "anti-nano" ships, its clear to see why they are preferred over Amarrians...They are best suited for roaming /anti-roaming gangs and the Torp changers really boosted the neglected TP to some usage, as it'll complement Ravens more than enough. Gallente are still the best tacklers and can damp effectively ships - just not in close range encounters. Damps are still mean against long range fittings tho, along with the sensor booster changes. Just opt for the right script. Locking time should not be neglected against BSs with locking range SB scripts. Caldari - hmm...I thing these were strong enough before Trinity. Recons get really powerful bonuses, and the rig + low slot amplifier bonuses are pretty strong on-top of these! Still they cannot effectively gang anything, nor tank unless they compromise their ewar fitting...but thats was fair to be honest. Far from underpowered! Some one could say that Amarr, Gallente and Minmatar Recons are actually best suited to fight against their own race. Gallente push the envelope away from close range, blaster fitted Gallente ships, Minmatar fight back their own race's hit n run ships with Webs and TPs while NOS/Neuts and TD's couldn't hurt any race more than Amarr! So it's not the Amarr Recons that suck (or don't suck efficiently enough)...it's just that Curse/Pilgrim pilots cannot find much more than ravens and drakes NPCer to hunt down! Cause against Ratting Amarr or even Gallente NPCers in the BS/BC class they would have better chances I am he, the bornless one
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Enuma Elish.	Posted - 2007.12.12 13:44:00 - [48] Now you are just trolling. Noses got nerfed for a GOOD REASON. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? GMP and TNP
Blue Rider Thanos and Killjoy Productions Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.12.12 14:34:00 - [49] I think it has been set correctly or very close to. Gallente, Caldari, Minmatar EW ships all *hinder* the prey. So it should be and looks to be with Amarr now. The problem, as most know, before was that an Amarr recon being successful meant (with few exceptions) completely disabling the prey. All active modules would be inoperable: tanking, ew, dps (hybrid & laser), escape (speed and warp). So both offense and defense are affected of the prey in more than once category by only one of its ew mods. The only other race to affect offense and defense with one of its ew is Matari but only one aspect (speed).
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.12.12 15:54:00 - [50] Originally by: Blue Rider The only other race to affect offense and defense with one of its ew is Matari but only one aspect (speed). And that is why minmatar recons are the best recons atm. --------------------------------------------- [Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice
Dillius Archania Amarr The Aegis Militia Aegis Militia	Posted - 2007.12.12 16:15:00 - [51] Here's the real issue as I see it: Curse/Pilgrim don't have enough cap to run BOTH Neuts and a Tank. Therefore, we assume that they are meant to defend themselves using Ewar, not Tank. PROBLEM: Turret Disruptors are now very weak, not useless but bad, and 2 of 4 weapon types require no energy to fire (Projectile and Missiles) making the idea of neutralizing cap as a form of defense useless. Of these 2, 1 is not affected AT ALL by turret disruptors (Missiles). What method of defense from missiles do the Curse/Pilgrim have? Nano-speed? Don't have the cap to run both a MWD and the neuts. Furthermore, the turret disruptors only work so well, requiring multiple on any single ship to truly prevent it from hitting. Truly, the only ships that the AMARR recons butcher are, ironically, AMARR laser boats, as they are the only ships you can defend yourself from with cap drain and turret disruption combined. But hey, I am still some days from being able to pilot them, so take my assessment with a grain of salt.
Kruel Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2007.12.12 16:24:00 - [52] I still think a sig radius based fix would've been a better nerf for nos, since it was mostly small ships that were effected. Or even the nos down to 25% like was mentioned in a dev blog long ago. The way it works now is just stupid, and feels like a rushed fix in order to quell the forum whiners. Amarr recons have taken 4 hits from the nerfbat recently: -1. Nos -2. Drone shield regen gone -3. Less drone bandwidth (effects Pilgrim mostly) -4. Damps/TDs nerfed +1. Bigger drone bay The 100+ extra pg on the Pilgrim helped, but not enough. That's -1 mid for EW, and the cargo bay is just lulz for carrying cap charges. The nos nerf destroyed the Pilgrim.
Ulstan	Posted - 2007.12.12 16:31:00 - [53] Quote: Now you are just trolling. Noses got nerfed for a GOOD REASON. This. Every reasonable person I've seen who has even a shaky understanding of balance understands why the NOS nerf was necessary. But not Lyria, apparently! She obviously doesn't understand why nos was nerfed, as she suggests that other e-war need the same nerf.
Dromidas Shadowmoon Minmatar Uraniumcore	Posted - 2007.12.12 16:32:00 - [54] You have 2 racial mods, both nos and neuts, everyone else gets 1 as you so pointed out. Give us a second racial 'specialty' and then sure, nerf one of them.
Alyth Gallente Dichotomy Total Comfort	Posted - 2007.12.12 16:34:00 - [55] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 12/12/2007 02:11:31 Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 12/12/2007 02:02:45 Ok so ccp nerfed the racial ew for amarr recons, the nos. Nos only works when your cap is lower then the enemy cap. So at equal cap amarr recon racial stops working. Hmm How would gallente feel if they could only damp their targets down to their own scan resolution and not below that? How would caldari feel if they only could jam people down to the amount of targets they are locking themselves at that moment? How would minmatar feel if they only could slow down ships to their own speed with ranged web? They would all feel that ccp had broken their racial ew. Anyone else think ccp should fix amarr recon ew? Fix nos? 1. Nos aren't amarrs sole EW try looking at Tracking Disruptors which are now awesome. In fact nos aren't Ewar at all but cap management. 2. Damps and nos got nerfed for one reason. They were 100% effective 100% of the time no matter what ship they were fitted on. Thats a tad overpowered and as such damps were brought in line with other Ewar mods and Nos had it coming to them. I hear Neut's are rather useful try playing with them.
Trevor Warps	Posted - 2007.12.12 16:36:00 - [56] omg ... OP please go to bed. Sick of this nerf crying madness. /start Quote CCP changed something and I want it back as it was because it fits ME better. /end Quote Forums are pointless now anyways. Whiners killed it. Guess i had enough, i'm out of here.
Reto The Last Resort	Posted - 2007.12.12 16:41:00 - [57] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 12/12/2007 02:11:31 Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 12/12/2007 02:02:45 Ok so ccp nerfed the racial ew for amarr recons, the nos. Nos only works when your cap is lower then the enemy cap. So at equal cap amarr recon racial stops working. Hmm How would gallente feel if they could only damp their targets down to their own scan resolution and not below that? How would caldari feel if they only could jam people down to the amount of targets they are locking themselves at that moment? How would minmatar feel if they only could slow down ships to their own speed with ranged web? They would all feel that ccp had broken their racial ew. Anyone else think ccp should fix amarr recon ew? Fix nos? no i do not think the devs should buff nos again because: dedicated amarr recon ships or elite EW frigates with nos and cap neutralizers can singlehandeley kill ships much bigger in size without any risk by utilizing their NOS/Neut bonuses and drones. they can sustain their whole setups capwise and use mods which are less effective on other races ships. a amarr eas for example can do the following without cap problems: -mwd at 4000m/s -neutralize 40cap/s at ~18km distance -deal up to 70dps with its more than large drone arsenal -warp disrupt at ~24km -decreasing an enemy's turret tracking by ~70% AND it can do all of the above at the same time. this means that (dispite the fact that nos was made less cap destructive) amarr ew ships still pose the most dangerous threat to ships which: -actively tank using capconsuming modules -use weapons which need cap -use turrets in general -do not have a sufficient drone capacities to fend off the amar ew ships -are not as agile and fast as the amarr recon/eas nos was changed for a reason. u didnt understand this reason so far. i think amarr ew is more than just balanced. in some cases i would even say that the amarr eas and recon needs a rethinking as it can do too many things on its own and has too much advantages and too less disadvantages. u on the otherside just whined in a immature way without factual knowledge. threads like this are flamebait. Originally by: s4mp3r0r "Hey man, you're mom has a cruise missile".
Bruce Deorum Minmatar Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.12 17:11:00 - [58] Originally by: Dromidas Shadowmoon You have 2 racial mods, both nos and neuts, everyone else gets 1 as you so pointed out. Give us a second racial 'specialty' and then sure, nerf one of them. That's not very reasonable to say... NOS/Neuts are pretty much 2 sides of the same coin...if there is just one hi-slot module that could instantly adapt to the scripts changes, that would be the NOS/Neuts...would you prefer having 2 deferent modules instead of just one you could optimize with scripts for each situation? Like either a range reduction dampener and a locking time dampener? I agree that pre-Nerf NOS was a no-brainer slot filler, with WIN-WIN attributes. Overpowered in any ship larger than you are (most BS), so also overpowered when generously bonused = Amarr Recons. That was fixed and the "changes" are fair IMHO. But, lets face the fact: * Amarr Recons CANNOT shut down other ships, offensive or defensive capabilities. They can effectively come close to doing so in Amarr Laser boats that cannot effectively put on a Cap Booster (like a Geddon for example) and TD a portion of the dmg taken by other Turret ships - but not nearly effectively enough. * Mostly used Caldari ships are either totally immune to Curses/Pilgrims (like a passive Drake where both tank and gang are capless), or at least fire their weapons and/or field Neuts that can reach out and harm the Curse/Pilgrim - Raven. TDs are a joke to anything but a Rokh perhaps, but rarely you'll see them closer than in snipping ranges = TDs are for them too. * Minmatar also field capless weapons that are immune to NOS/Neus, while their close range weapons are also TD resilient due their good tracking. * Both TDs and Neuts can be fought with modules that are pretty much standard fit in many setups, like tracking computers and Cap boosters. The same can be said for Sensor Boosters vs. damps. Few ships can spare a slot for ECCM and Amarr ships are both cap and mid slot "short" to leave a cap booster off for it... So, in real case scenarios, there are very few ships you can actually NOS/Neut to a point you can out-tank and out-gang it - and that's after the TD effect! In real case scenarios a Pilgrim/Curse cannot stop even a slow BS/BC from re-approaching a gate. In fact just a Minie recon can do it, crippling not just it's speed mods, but also preventing it from reaching its base top speed, while at the same time its fast enough to evade some dmg while running, the same thing a pilgrim cannot do even with TDs! And that goes for ALL ships, not cap resilient tanking or ganking or just missile spamming ones...for all. The same goes for ECM that is effective against ALL races and ships, for Target Painters, for range bonused scrams and for sensor dampeners. In fact Amarr Recons are the only ones blessed with "so many" bonused Ewar modules, that actually have so limited applications against a yet limited type of ships...cause even more-and-more Amarr ships are jumping into the Khanid game I am he, the bornless one
Jan Ars The Thrill Kill Club	Posted - 2007.12.12 17:29:00 - [59] Originally by: Kruel I still think a sig radius based fix would've been a better nerf for nos, since it was mostly small ships that were effected. Or even the nos down to 25% like was mentioned in a dev blog long ago. The way it works now is just stupid, and feels like a rushed fix in order to quell the forum whiners. Amarr recons have taken 4 hits from the nerfbat recently: -1. Nos -2. Drone shield regen gone -3. Less drone bandwidth (effects Pilgrim mostly) -4. Damps/TDs nerfed +1. Bigger drone bay 1) Balance 2) This was apparently unintended, and is therefore a bug fix. 3) Yeah, this sucks. 4) Attempt at balance, though perhaps a bit overboard on the TD's. ECM Specialist
Rialtor Amarr Yarrrateers	Posted - 2007.12.12 17:37:00 - [60] Personally as an Amarrian I feel the nos nerf was the best thing to happen to Amarr. The main ships effected on the Amarrian side are the Arbitrator, Pilgrim, Curse. The Arbitrator and Curse are flexible enough to overcome the nerf, but the pilgrim is in a sad state due to its design. Why is it good for Amarr then? Because now that cap warfare is no longer a pre-req for combat, it opens up more of our ships on the pvp front. The Harbinger, Geddon, and Abaddon live and die by Cap, and they were very sensitive to even the slightest bit of cap warefare. Now with less cap warfare mods equipped on pvp setups it means that Amarrian laser ships are more effective. The only ship really neutered is the Pilgrim. In exchange our laser boats are able to be fielded with better success than before. Nos was broken it got nerfed. Damps were broken it got nerfed. ECM was broken it got nerfed (but then boosted, but still under where it was). But I don't think any other module is as broken as those things were in their playing field. ---- sig ---- Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world... Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.12.12 21:11:00 - [61] Originally by: Trevor Warps omg ... OP please go to bed. Sick of this nerf crying madness. /start Quote CCP changed something and I want it back as it was because it fits ME better. /end Quote Forums are pointless now anyways. Whiners killed it. Guess i had enough, i'm out of here. Get some balls and post with main. --------------------------------------------- [Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice
sdthujfg	Posted - 2007.12.13 03:34:00 - [62] bump for oompf.
McFly Path of Light R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.12.13 06:05:00 - [63] I fly a curse in gang quite often, and to be honest, I would of course like the old nos back, i don't think there's anyone around that doesn't...but the curse can be effective in some situations, like gang. The recon's are primarily for EW, at least that's what they've were intended I think. So much like a logistics cruiser they aren't there to kill anything, they are there to disable a target. In the curse's example I fly one commonly, I almost always passive tank it and I never fit scramblers or anything like that because I try to keep my distance from the fight. With 3x Med Neut II's and 2x Med Nos II's It's practically impossible to maintain your cap, if you fit rigs it would help but the problem with neuting a target is two cycles and you are capped out no matter what your regen has gotten up to. So you are unable to rep, or really do much of anything except wait to get your cap up. Maintaining a low cap is difficult because you are setting up your ship to be able to regen. So what's the main way to drop your cap? neut or rep. But if you don't have any damage why rep? and if you neut ur nos is ineffective, practically pointless. From my experience having three neuts is pretty much required, especially if you run into a BS or a small gang of AFs/Intys/HACs.... So in the end of this long winded post, I fly a curse it can be very effective, but when I undock it, just like a flycatcher I know I'm not going to come back with it, because... - I will be primarried - I cant tank if I want to be effective for the gang - It's a pretty ship, pretty ships always go boom... :( Do I still fly it? Yes Is it worth it? Probably Not Did I run out of money after losing a few? Yup Do I consider it Broken? No, I think all recons should be like this, if they want to perform they should be vulnerable. Any ship that can cripple another should not be able to sit back and relax, the pilot should be worried, his ship is very powerful at what it does and should not be able to shut down a ship (or multiple) and sit happy if he isn't protected. And the pilgrim, well a solowtfbbqpwnmobile like it was is just not cool, There's no reason a cruiser should be able to cripple a BS and kill it without help. K sorry I kept talking I'm out, trolls do your thing.... -- --my opinions do not reflect that of my corp nor my alliance--
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.12.13 10:14:00 - [64] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: hellsknights The difference between NOS and Damps......Nos the most cripling EW in the game a curse/pilgrim could NOS you try and a very short period of time. Same with the old Damps, it was a huge advantage. But now, NOS is simple keep you cap low drain your enenmy dry, then cap boost yourself to continue the fight, seems legit. Damps well you chose right lock speed/lock distance and if your victim is fast he can easily counter your lock distance. TBH locking time is only usefull in very limited situations. No, neuts powered by own cap booster doesnt work in pvp where everyone fits cap boosters. Thats one of the reasons nos needs to work old school, because of cap booster use. I mean how can a pilgrim disable a battleship with a large booster and huge cap? By neuting him with a medium cap booster? Pilgrim would run out of boosters before hurting the battleship. But wait, the other recons can disable a battleship. How is this balanced again? Yeah.... Yeah, I mean a Huggin can just TP it to hell... oh, wait. Rifters!
Thorek Ironbrow Ironbrow Industries Co. Empire Research	Posted - 2007.12.13 10:19:00 - [65] I didn't know that's how Nos worked. I thought it only worked when your cap was below half. Making it only go as low as yours is stupid. _____________________________ Thorek Ironbrow of Ironbrow Industries Co. Part of the Empire Research Alliance Look us up in Nomaa or Itamo to join!
Bruce Deorum Minmatar Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.13 16:02:00 - [66] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer No, neuts powered by own cap booster doesnt work in pvp where everyone fits cap boosters. Thats one of the reasons nos needs to work old school, because of cap booster use. I mean how can a pilgrim disable a battleship with a large booster and huge cap? By neuting him with a medium cap booster? Pilgrim would run out of boosters before hurting the battleship. But wait, the other recons can disable a battleship. How is this balanced again? Yeah.... Lyria,It's not that bad with Neuts. Neuts are not the problem, tanking is. With proper skills = Recon at a minimum IV, a pilgrim can "kill" 288% more cap than it uses - that's with best named or T2 Med Neuts. With Recon V efficiency is boosted to 320%. Off course Energy Emission skill is maxed. If we "isolate" this figures and translate them in capacitor charges, where: A = ships capacitor without batteries after skills B = charges in the cap booster C = charges in cagrohold we have with maxed cap skills: Pilgrim = A-1563/800 + B-1x800 + C-9x800 = roughly 12 x 800 Megathron = A-7331/800 + B-2 + C-20 = roughly 31 x 800 Now, the Pilgrim can kill effectively up to 320%x12 = 38.4 x 800 cap charges! That means it's capable of killing the Mega's cap even with Recon at IV. where 288%x12 = 33.6 800 charges. Add in the NOS which DEFINITELY is going to work for at least a few circles, if you time your neuts / cap booster right, its more than doable. What's impossible to do, is tank a Mega effectively, and surely you cannot TD this tracking beast effectively. The same goes for a Raven, or an AC Tempest etc...you cannot tank them long enough in order to dry them, and if you do dry them, you won't make it cause either you will be dead before that, or their guns will be cap independent and overtime their buffer will last longer than your tank. As for the other recons, especially minmmatar, nough said. Just imagine a drained ship coming to full stop. It should, it doesn't. That said, it would be fair if Webs affected MWD/AB speed bonuses ONLY. That would be up to par with NOS changes, and 100% fair IMHO. I am he, the bornless one

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