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7shining7one7 Quafe Paladins	Posted - 2007.12.12 19:54:00 - [1] "Tricks and treachery are the practice of fools that don't have brains enough to be honest" - Benjamin Franklin
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.12.12 19:59:00 - [2] Stop posting. The worst enemy of the Ron Paul campaign is his own absurdly fanatical supporters. 23 Member EVE Video makers: save bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! (updated)
7shining7one7 Quafe Paladins	Posted - 2007.12.12 20:01:00 - [3] why don't you just let his own words speak for themselves, that's what i do.
SoftRevolution	Posted - 2007.12.12 20:04:00 - [4] Youtube is serious business. EVE RELATED CONTENT
Lola Lollipop Gallente Snakeskin Ind.	Posted - 2007.12.12 20:04:00 - [5] no,u.
7shining7one7 Quafe Paladins	Posted - 2007.12.12 20:06:00 - [6] you should really watch this too softcore it makes no fundamental difference on the message if you see him on cnn or if you see a ripped vid format posted on youtube.
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.12.12 20:20:00 - [7] Originally by: 7shining7one7 why don't you just let his own words speak for themselves, that's what i do. Because it is a populist appeal with no discussion of the knock-on effects. No one likes paying taxes but consider some of the effects abolishing it would have. - You'd put a huge set of people out of work. The whole IRS. Tax attorneys. Accountants (lots of them). What do they do next? You are talking hundreds of thousands perhaps millions of people. - You need to decrease the budget by 1/3. Fine. How? Exactly? He mentioned getting rid of entitlements. Ok. Which ones? He mentioned reducing the military so we are not the world's police force. Ok but to what effect? Europeans may despise the US for its foreign policies on things like Iraq but like it or not the US is a stabilizing force in the world. European countries have militaries just sufficient to guard their own borders and cannot project meaningful power. Iran would almost certainly co-opt Iraq in short order. China may well have at Taiwan. North Korea may have at South Korea. Russia...who knows...they may go back to some of their old ways. Whatever the case the world becomes a far more uncertain place. - State governments would almost certainly raise taxes after the IRS was abolished. Arguing that their citizens now have more money they will feel comfortable taking some of what the US government did for themselves. Probably not as much as the federal taxes did but expect to see not so much of your new found savings as you might expect. Those are just off the top of my head but need answering. Maybe he has good answers to all that. I do not know. But simple catch phrases like "Abolish the IRS" is a disservice.
lofty29 Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.12 20:26:00 - [8] Underageb& oh, wait, no sorry. Politics B&. Gtfo. --- Latest Video : FAT- Camp
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2007.12.12 20:28:00 - [9] Quote: Stop dreaming Stop hallucinating. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in ~~pink~~ Forum Warfare
7shining7one7 Quafe Paladins	Posted - 2007.12.12 20:29:00 - [10] Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 12/12/2007 20:34:11 ok first of all, you totally underestimate the military power of europe. so let's get that straight you also seem to totally misunderstand how europeans feel about the US messing in other peoples business without sufficient evidence. which has never showed up. and you also underestimate how us policies on lowered liberty and personal freedom has limited also the european countries. let's just say ppl aren't too happy about that. what the media tells you about how europeans feel about it is complete bollox which you see if you go out and talk to people in real life. now about the irs, i'm assuming you work as such, and i totally understand your concern. "- State governments would almost certainly raise taxes after the IRS was abolished. Arguing that their citizens now have more money they will feel comfortable taking some of what the US government did for themselves. Probably not as much as the federal taxes did but expect to see not so much of your new found savings as you might expect." no, less income tax (the income tax is inconstitutional and irs shouldn't even exist, even ppl who work in the irs have come forth and said that there is no law that says that you even should pay income tax ) = less debt = less overspending = less state debt = room for improvements such as medical care, social security and many other things that are essential. however. if you have a system that is not necessary, that has it's part in creating higher prices and such, then if it is not beneficial it has to go. and yes some will be out of a job in that sector, but you gotta weigh the greater good, and these moneys can then be spent on reeducating them in a profession they desire. Obviously you don't just remove it without taking care of the ppl standing without jobs..
7shining7one7 Quafe Paladins	Posted - 2007.12.12 20:30:00 - [11] Originally by: Tarminic Quote: Stop dreaming Stop hallucinating. stop trolling. somehow your name seems familiar, could it be that it's cause you've been called a proper troll on more than just 1 occation? only not be me, that is untill now anyways.
lofty29 Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.12 20:31:00 - [12] Originally by: 7shining7one7 Originally by: Tarminic Quote: Stop dreaming Stop hallucinating. stop trolling. somehow your name seems familiar, could it be that it's cause you've been called a proper troll on more than just 1 occation? only not be me, that is untill now anyways. Occation, untill. These are the kind of people who support Ron Paul. 'Nuff said. --- Latest Video : FAT- Camp
Magnus Nordir Caldari	Posted - 2007.12.12 20:33:00 - [13] Originally by: 7shining7one7 Originally by: Tarminic Quote: Stop dreaming Stop hallucinating. stop trolling. somehow your name seems familiar, could it be that it's cause you've been called a proper troll on more than just 1 occation? only not be me, that is untill now anyways. laern 2 grammer kthxbai o & u sux poltitycs 2. Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it. ~Andre Gide
7shining7one7 Quafe Paladins	Posted - 2007.12.12 20:37:00 - [14] Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 12/12/2007 20:39:16 Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: 7shining7one7 Originally by: Tarminic Quote: Stop dreaming Stop hallucinating. stop trolling. somehow your name seems familiar, could it be that it's cause you've been called a proper troll on more than just 1 occation? only not be me, that is untill now anyways. Occation, untill. These are the kind of people who support Ron Paul. 'Nuff said. let's see you text up 500 words in german, or swedish or norwegian, and then i'll tear them apart for syntax and semantics. you might a a big kahuna here in eve online, but out of pod you seem rather like an obnoxious arrogant and quite ignorant guy. try having some respect for a change, or eventually you'll find someone bigger than you that doesn't like the crap your spewing and teach you it. nuff said..
lofty29 Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.12 20:40:00 - [15] Originally by: 7shining7one7 Occation, untill. These are the kind of people who support Ron Paul. 'Nuff said. let's see you text up 500 words in german, or swedish or norwegian, and then i'll tear them apart for syntax and semantics. nuff said.. I didn't grow up around German, Swedish or Norwegian speaking people, wheras you grew up around alot of people who speak in English. Mainland Europe learns English from the age they can speak pretty much. The UK does 3 years of one or two languages, and then the majority go '**** that' and drop them. English is all I will ever need. Prove me wrong. --- Latest Video : FAT- Camp
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2007.12.12 20:41:00 - [16] Originally by: 7shining7one7 no, less income tax = less debt = less overspending = less state debt = room for improvements such as medical care, social security and many other things that are essential. Er...what? I really don't understand your logic here. Could you explain this a bit more thoroughly? ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in ~~pink~~ Forum Warfare
lofty29 Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.12 20:43:00 - [17] Edited by: lofty29 on 12/12/2007 20:42:58 Originally by: 7shining7one7 no, less income tax = less debt = less overspending = less state debt = room for improvements such as medical care, social security and many other things that are essential. Yeah, what does personal debt have to do with overspending? Less income tax = less government money = MORE overspending = MORE state debt = LESS room for improvements. You're an idiot. End yourself. --- Latest Video : FAT- Camp
7shining7one7 Quafe Paladins	Posted - 2007.12.12 20:44:00 - [18] Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 12/12/2007 20:47:09 Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: 7shining7one7 Occation, untill. These are the kind of people who support Ron Paul. 'Nuff said. let's see you text up 500 words in german, or swedish or norwegian, and then i'll tear them apart for syntax and semantics. nuff said.. I didn't grow up around German, Swedish or Norwegian speaking people, wheras you grew up around alot of people who speak in English. Mainland Europe learns English from the age they can speak pretty much. The UK does 3 years of one or two languages, and then the majority go '**** that' and drop them. English is all I will ever need. Prove me wrong. what you need or don't need is irrelevant in this regard, what matters is that you do not grammar troll someone who does not have english as their native language, and then falsely use that as some sort of meassuring of their intelligence. especially since you would most likely look like a 5 year old if you were to text up something in a european language. yet i wouldn't disrepect you for that, or use it against you. think it over
7shining7one7 Quafe Paladins	Posted - 2007.12.12 20:46:00 - [19] Originally by: lofty29 Edited by: lofty29 on 12/12/2007 20:42:58 Originally by: 7shining7one7 no, less income tax = less debt = less overspending = less state debt = room for improvements such as medical care, social security and many other things that are essential. Yeah, what does personal debt have to do with overspending? Less income tax = less government money = MORE overspending = MORE state debt = LESS room for improvements. You're an idiot. End yourself. economics 101. increased spending incurs increased debt. what an arrogant little ***** you are, i'm liking you less and less, you sure don't grow on people, and no i don't think i want to "get" you either.
lofty29 Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.12 20:48:00 - [20] Originally by: 7shining7one7 economics 101. increased spending incurs increased debt. what an arrogant little ***** you are, i'm liking you less and less, you sure don't grow on people, and no i don't think i want to "get" you either. Logic 101, if you have more money to spend, you won't run into debt. --- Latest Video : FAT- Camp
7shining7one7 Quafe Paladins	Posted - 2007.12.12 20:49:00 - [21] Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: 7shining7one7 economics 101. increased spending incurs increased debt. what an arrogant little ***** you are, i'm liking you less and less, you sure don't grow on people, and no i don't think i want to "get" you either. Logic 101, if you have more money to spend, you won't run into debt. so tell me, do you have any loans?
lofty29 Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.12 20:50:00 - [22] Originally by: 7shining7one7 Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: 7shining7one7 economics 101. increased spending incurs increased debt. what an arrogant little ***** you are, i'm liking you less and less, you sure don't grow on people, and no i don't think i want to "get" you either. Logic 101, if you have more money to spend, you won't run into debt. so tell me, do you have any loans? Being 16, it's quite hard to find a reason. Listen, you just argued that because people had more money in their pockets, they would spend more and run themselves into even greater debt. Increased income does not = increased debt, ever. God damn --- Latest Video : FAT- Camp
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2007.12.12 20:53:00 - [23] Originally by: lofty29 Listen, you just argued that because people had more money in their pockets, they would spend more and run themselves into even greater debt. Increased income does not = increased debt, ever. God damn This. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in ~~pink~~ Forum Warfare
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.12.12 20:54:00 - [24] Originally by: 7shining7one7 Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 12/12/2007 20:34:11 ok first of all, you totally underestimate the military power of europe. so let's get that straight Not at all. They have very professional and well equipped forces and invading them would be quite painful for an attacker. They also have almost no ability to project power in any substantial way. The Brits are probably most able yet going after the Falkland Islands was even a bit of a stretch for them. So if trouble happens far away from their borders they are largely helpless to send their military in to correct things (assuming they wanted to). Quote: you also seem to totally misunderstand how europeans feel about the US messing in other peoples business without sufficient evidence. which has never showed up. and you also underestimate how us policies on lowered liberty and personal freedom has limited also the european countries. let's just say ppl aren't too happy about that. what the media tells you about how europeans feel about it is complete bollox which you see if you go out and talk to people in real life. I am aware that Europeans are not happy with the current US administration (not that any are very popular but this one is particularly reviled). Hell, I join them in that assessment. But while they may not admit to it explicitly they also benefit from the US playing the boogeyman in world politics. It draws the ire of terror groups towards the US and they need not spend vast amounts of money on a military. Again, imagine the US withdrew and became 100% isolationist and let the rest of the world to itself. Then imagine Iran gains control of all mid-east oil. China takes over SE Asia. The Russians re-acquire states that peeled off after the USSR broke up. Would be a mess. Quote: now about the irs, i'm assuming you work as such, and i totally understand your concern. I hate the IRS as much as the next guy and certainly do not work for them. Quote: no, less income tax (the income tax is inconstitutional and irs shouldn't even exist, even ppl who work in the irs have come forth and said that there is no law that says that you even should pay income tax ) = less debt = less overspending = less state debt = room for improvements such as medical care, social security and many other things that are essential. I'm with Tarminic on this. I would like to see the logical gymnastics needed to make that work. Quote: however. if you have a system that is not necessary, that has it's part in creating higher prices and such, then if it is not beneficial it has to go. and yes some will be out of a job in that sector, but you gotta weigh the greater good, and these moneys can then be spent on reeducating them in a profession they desire. Obviously you don't just remove it without taking care of the ppl standing without jobs.. Well...in general I'd love to not pay taxes again. I just think you are glossing over other effects this would have. Re-train a 45 year old tax accountant? To do what? He'd be starting as a newbie on any other field.
7shining7one7 Quafe Paladins	Posted - 2007.12.12 20:55:00 - [25] Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: 7shining7one7 Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: 7shining7one7 economics 101. increased spending incurs increased debt. what an arrogant little ***** you are, i'm liking you less and less, you sure don't grow on people, and no i don't think i want to "get" you either. Logic 101, if you have more money to spend, you won't run into debt. so tell me, do you have any loans? Being 16, it's quite hard to find a reason. Listen, you just argued that because people had more money in their pockets, they would spend more and run themselves into even greater debt. Increased income does not = increased debt, ever. God damn no i didn't you see what you don't understand is that it is among other things taxes that increases the price of items you buy, because everyone from production and manufacturing up to the sales has to get the various components that are in themselves artificially raised in price due to tax and inflation (which correlate on several levels) so this means you pay more for each item, and this also means that you will incur greater debt each time you want to buy something big. an eve analogy: base mineral price vs production and sales price. now impose an income tax on top of all this and u'll understand where i'm going with this. everything becomes more expensive.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2007.12.12 20:58:00 - [26] Edited by: Tarminic on 12/12/2007 20:58:21 Originally by: 7shining7one7 no i didn't you see what you don't understand is that it is among other things taxes that increases the price of items you buy, because everyone from production and manufacturing up to the sales has to get the various components that are in themselves artificially raised in price due to tax and inflation (which correlate on several levels) so this means you pay more for each item, and this also means that you will incur greater debt each time you want to buy something big. So how will removing personal income tax change any of that? ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in ~~pink~~ Forum Warfare
lofty29 Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.12 21:00:00 - [27] Originally by: 7shining7one7 an eve analogy: base mineral price vs production and sales price. now impose an income tax on top of all this and u'll understand where i'm going with this. everything becomes more expensive. So if you do what you and Ron Paul want, and remove income taxes, prices will drop. Uhuh, debt is much easier to get into when you have more money AND things are cheaper! --- Latest Video : FAT- Camp
7shining7one7 Quafe Paladins	Posted - 2007.12.12 21:02:00 - [28] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h good stuff yeah definately, no executed plan without preparation and due logic implicated in this preparation. that is offcourse a must. but it's doable, the banks just don't like it cause u'll then lend less money from them. yes i know there will be some inherent side effects of that, but this is hardly any different than a few big companies that go bankrupt (due to mass dept and over investment i might add) and then ppl will have to find out what they can then do with their lives this is hardly any news, this happens all the time, you just may or may not hear about it much. what if companies wouldn't have to overspend so much with so high risk of bankrupcy and the likes, you gotta weigh the benefit of all against the benefit of few, but offcourse provide a transition plan for this (using some of the money not spend on the irs for instance). the way i see it the goal is not that the irs employees should be left out on the street, but reintegrated into doing something they prefer to do instead. and the irs isn't the only place that deals with economics.. you can't tell me they cannot be reschooled to do another thing without loosing all their assets. i think that would be underestimating the common intelligence of people in general.
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.12.12 21:02:00 - [29] Originally by: 7shining7one7 no i didn't you see what you don't understand is that it is among other things taxes that increases the price of items you buy, because everyone from production and manufacturing up to the sales has to get the various components that are in themselves artificially raised in price due to tax and inflation (which correlate on several levels) so this means you pay more for each item, and this also means that you will incur greater debt each time you want to buy something big. As I understand it he wants to abolish personal income taxes. Sales taxes would still remain (especially since a large part of those taxes are locally applied). Oh, just occurred to me with no federal income tax companies may well see fit to cut salaries. Maybe not as much as you lost in taxes but they could argue that you are taking more home so they should have to pay you less. Certainly it would depress salaries and in the end we may all find our take home pay the same as it is today. The winners of course being the investors who get even more wealthy furthering the split between the have's and have nots.
7shining7one7 Quafe Paladins	Posted - 2007.12.12 21:05:00 - [30] Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: 7shining7one7 an eve analogy: base mineral price vs production and sales price. now impose an income tax on top of all this and u'll understand where i'm going with this. everything becomes more expensive. So if you do what you and Ron Paul want, and remove income taxes, prices will drop. Uhuh, debt is much easier to get into when you have more money AND things are cheaper! with all due respect lofty, when u get a little older you'll understand how things connect much easier, because you'll have more knowledge of how things work. the more money and things are cheaper scenario you are suggesting, is a false image of what will happen. in fact you'll have less money but the prices will also be less. it will balance itself out. offcourse over consumption is what the banks prey on. so if you want to go down that road, that's a personal choice. but from a hollistic viewpoint it would balance out inflation very nicely to do such a thing. or what ron paul calls inflation tax. (which is what i've talked about above, offcourse not in sufficient detail, but just enough to get the idea about what it means)

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