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James Rockafella	Posted - 2007.12.13 12:31:00 - [31] Originally by: Hasak Rain lol at this thread. Nobody here has said anything that can't be read on any MMO message board in the world. I have played quite a few MMOs and it is always the same garbage over time. ""Company X" doesn't listen to us anymore....wah!" Quite frankly, I am glad that CCP {or anyone else} doesn't listen to the same 50-100 Forum whiners and their alts. The game is much better of because of it. I agree with this post fully.
Exiled One Amarr	Posted - 2007.12.13 12:47:00 - [32] The old CCP you say...the ** you know about old ccp. Bring back my gankgeddon, oh right. Cry me le ***** river.
Jaketh Ivanes Amarr Do Or Die And Live Or Try	Posted - 2007.12.13 13:00:00 - [33] In the beginning, us players replied to the devs in concise, polite, though through (mostly) arguments. Today, most player replies are vile, insulting, non-constructive, demanding anger attacks. I would personally not read nor reply to such garbage. That devs still do only shows that they are greater than me and havn't given up hope of finding one or two good posts.
Kastar Memphis Technologies Intergalactic Brotherhood	Posted - 2007.12.13 13:00:00 - [34] Edited by: Kastar on 13/12/2007 13:03:01 I bet all my stuff that the very reason for the situation the OP draws (if it exists) is in fact caused by all of these sucky whine and complaint posts. Just consider, whatever they would do, be it good or bad a change, people just complain. Most people that are into some form of people management or depend on interactivity with others will testify that with 95% of the individuals you can't do jack. All they're good for is fodder or to be pushed into the right direction. That's the exact same principle CCP is obliging to. If you ask people for feedback, people will state what's worng and whine instead of giving constructive reply. My 2 cents ... ? Quit these posts, give it some time and let them do their work. I wonder when all selfdeclared smart-asses will start to comprehend that it's in CCP's own interest to keep this game ok, so please give them some credit if they implement something that doesn't suit YOU. My oldest char is 4 years old. In the beginning I mined, shot people and had fun. Right now, I mine and still shoot people and have an equal amount of fun. I don't care how or by means of which flavour of the day. This game is about the friends you fly with. I'm no fanboi, I just want you to stop ruining the athmosphere of the game I and others like with your silly whines and cries for attention. I want the crybabies to go away. What kind of bloody masochists are most of the whiners I see these days, when they keep playing a game they obviously don't like. -----------------------------------------------
Malcanis High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.13 13:04:00 - [35] Originally by: Futher Bezluden Anyone remember long, long ago when CCP actually seemed to listen to player suggestions and recommendations, when they would post up potential changes with explanations behind what they were doing, or when they put something in then realized it was a really bad idea and rolled back the change? Anyone remember that CCP? Does it still exist? The entire Trinity release is filled with things created privately behind closed doors without any player input (other than complaints on the forums being ignored after players tested it on SISI) and put right into the game despite having not given any explanation as to why such changes were made. Moreso, no explanation of the rational behind leaving certain things alone. Myrm and Eos: explanation given ARM Script Addition: no explanation given, no other options that were tested shown. Sweeping Interdictor Changes: none given but poly/odj setups remain untouched. Cargo in ships not allowed in carriers/rorquals: no other reason than to force invention of 8 billion isk jump freighters -no delay period for alliances to attempt jump freighter invention and get them fielded. Community call to change polycarb/odj packed ships: ignored, ccp must love eve being nothing but nanogangs and blobs. Community call to limit Damps/TD's to their respective ewar ships: ARM Script added, they are just as useful as before on non-ewar ships due to the modules that counter them being scripted too. Amarr ships generally being the least used due to problems the community has asked CCP to address for the past year: ignored but the T2 "caldarified" Amarr ships got buffed -just keep training and grinding for isk, you'll get T2 amarr missile ships without cap issues. Uselessness of the AF: tons of ideas put up by community, AF unchanged. Yeah, I'm being a grumpy old **** and misery loves company. Sound off about other things CCP changed without explanation or completely ignored. Don't bother asking for stuff, I've already given it away. Given the fantastic volume and bitter intensity of the whining on these forums, I'm amazed that they ever read them at all. Seriously, the sense of entitlement projected by many posters is unbelievable. FoTMers who are entitled to have the best ship in class, Carebears who are entitled to make infinite amounts of ISK in perfect safety, Gankbears who are entitled to get 40 kills a night, Skillbears who are entitled to start with maxed learning skills and so on. Different play styles, but all of them having in common the rock-hard belief that they are the most important person in the game, all of them having in common the complete failure to be able to see the game from outside the most narrow, selfish, self-serving perspective. Unable to believe that any change isn't a personal attack aimed directly at them. Unable to believe that failing to get the changes they want made isn't a deliberate omission because CCP hate miners/pirates/PvPers/alliances/solo players/old players/new players/Amarr/Caldari/Gallante/Minmatar... in short: ME! I'd say that, collectively, we get exactly the CCP we deserve, if not better. To sum up: Unless we get Space Whales, I'm canceling my accounts CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Esmenet Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.13 13:06:00 - [36] Originally by: Hasak Rain lol at this thread. Nobody here has said anything that can't be read on any MMO message board in the world. I have played quite a few MMOs and it is always the same garbage over time. ""Company X" doesn't listen to us anymore....wah!" Quite frankly, I am glad that CCP {or anyone else} doesn't listen to the same 50-100 Forum whiners and their alts. The game is much better of because of it. Exactly. The game would be complete crap if they listened to all the whiners here with inflated egos and anger management problems. If you have ever played another mmo you will see that the communication from CCP is about 100 times better than most other mmo companies. I have played a lot of mmos and i have never seen this amount of dev posts anywhere. But one thing is true for all mmo's, their forums are full of whines, especially everytime something changes. At some point dev's are bound to realise practically nomatter what changes someone will whine. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Kreul Intentions ([email protected])
Lysianna	Posted - 2007.12.13 13:15:00 - [37] Edited by: Lysianna on 13/12/2007 13:19:15 You cannot Breast feed your kid forever. It's good that CCP is taking a bigger distance from it's community. People seem to think that because CCP is not posting on the forums, it's because they don't read them. However, I simply think that they don't always reply for simple reason such as "I"m busy working on the game" People need to realize that it's not actually easy to maintain a game and if you start trying to please a community that's breaking the 300K people, you're in for alot of talking and no work. CCP is pushing new technology and it's working quite fine. It has some issues for now but EVE 2003 wasn't better then today. I rather think people got spoiled by CCP and now they're acting like spoiled kids that didn't get their candy. I'm not saying they should quit but they should at least think about why CCP did those balance changes or why things are done like that. At the current moment, I haven't seen anything that was done out of proportion, everything made sense so far. It's not always cool but geez, it's not hard to find work around.
Kastar Memphis Technologies Intergalactic Brotherhood	Posted - 2007.12.13 13:16:00 - [38] Originally by: Malcanis To sum up: Unless we get Space Whales, I'm canceling my accounts Oh so signed Please give me a death ray. -----------------------------------------------
ry ry StateCorp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.12.13 13:16:00 - [39] Originally by: Talos Darkhart Eve is dead and has been for about a year what we are playing now is some semi aborted sequal designed to milk as much cash as they can before world of darkness is released. eve has been dead every day since before it was even released. yet it, and you, are still here. go figure. *again.
Sakura Nihil Stimulus	Posted - 2007.12.13 13:23:00 - [40] Originally by: Mnengli Noiliffe they just need to fire nozh and fendahl and bring Tuxford back. Its a sad day when this is actually sounding like a good idea ... Say no to knee-jerk additions and nerfs, mmkay?
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2007.12.13 13:31:00 - [41] Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes In the beginning, us players replied to the devs in concise, polite, though through (mostly) arguments. Today, most player replies are vile, insulting, non-constructive, demanding anger attacks. I would personally not read nor reply to such garbage. That devs still do only shows that they are greater than me and havn't given up hope of finding one or two good posts. This. I'm glad that CCP had a dedicated balance team instead of listening to the %5-%10 of the whiners on the forums. Remember the carrier nerf whine? Assuming that every carrier pilot has an average of two carriers they represent less than 10% of the playerbase, yet going by the forums you'd think that CCP was going around eating babies. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in ~~pink~~ Forum Warfare
Verone Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.12.13 13:39:00 - [42] Originally by: Futher Bezluden Amarr ships generally being the least used due to problems the community has asked CCP to address for the past year: ignored but the T2 "caldarified" Amarr ships got buffed -just keep training and grinding for isk, you'll get T2 amarr missile ships without cap issues. Amarr turret boats are fine. Been flying them for four years, there's no problem with them at all if you use your loaf when fitting them. >>> TRIBUTE TO A FALLEN WINGMAN <<<
Kastar Memphis Technologies Intergalactic Brotherhood	Posted - 2007.12.13 13:45:00 - [43] Originally by: Verone Originally by: Futher Bezluden Amarr ships generally being the least used due to problems the community has asked CCP to address for the past year: ignored but the T2 "caldarified" Amarr ships got buffed -just keep training and grinding for isk, you'll get T2 amarr missile ships without cap issues. Amarr turret boats are fine. Been flying them for four years, there's no problem with them at all if you use your loaf when fitting them. Stay on topic you, we were whining about the whining whiners (You're right though. I was even lucky enough to tackle an astarte in a pilgrim recently, so no complaints at all) -----------------------------------------------
Wild Rho Amarr GoonFleet	Posted - 2007.12.13 13:47:00 - [44] Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes In the beginning, us players replied to the devs in concise, polite, though through (mostly) arguments. Today, most player replies are vile, insulting, non-constructive, demanding anger attacks. I would personally not read nor reply to such garbage. That devs still do only shows that they are greater than me and havn't given up hope of finding one or two good posts. Agrred with Jaketh. Most of the stuff posted on the forums these days isn't worth responding to mostly because the player base has a strong tendancy to act like a spoiled brat making demands with little to no real valid reasoning or thought. Good threads are more a novelty these days rather than the standard.
Leon 026 Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.12.13 13:57:00 - [45] Yes, CCP = EA. Quit now and give me your stuff before its too late. THE SKY IS FALLING! OMG! ------- Leon 026 Once I was fallen, now I have wings
Garia666 Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E	Posted - 2007.12.13 14:16:00 - [46] i think there several changes.. In the beginning of EVE, CCP needed allot of players, This to keep out of the cost and mabe make a little proffit. They where more or less ineed of subscribers, and thats why they listend very carefully of what the community had to say. @the start off EVE it was not realy normal to pay an monthly fee to a game. And most people who played eve where mature adults trying to have some fun. Now a days CCP is a large company with allot of employees. EVE has over 200k subcribers. making it a multi million dollar company with a steady income. The eve player base has exploded and over time more and more people get used to the idea of paying a montly fee and younger and younger people started to play eve. Ever since the Goons arrised, communicating on the forums has fallen from an mature degree to an inmature and childish smack fest. And most People are getting MMO spoiled making them more inpatient and swallow less and less.. This and the fact that CCP is growing bigger and bigger makes it that there is less communication with the EVE community ->My Vids<-
Lucy Light	Posted - 2007.12.13 14:20:00 - [47] ccp is giving us a sandbox. but they decide which type of sands.. I like to eat one nutella sandwich for breakfast
Aya Otosaki	Posted - 2007.12.13 14:21:00 - [48] old ccp is probably working on that vampire game. ----- Ignorance is my strength.
DJ P	Posted - 2007.12.13 14:33:00 - [49] Originally by: Garia666 Ever since the Goons arrised, communicating on the forums has fallen from an mature degree to an inmature and childish smack fest. And most People are getting MMO spoiled making them more inpatient and swallow less and less.. Amen. I remember the good old days where a cruiser was HUGE investment. To make ISK so you can replace your frigate, you had to spit blood. Forums were fun to visit and read something productive. (No Concord or Sentry Guns). Today everyone (almost) makes easy isk safe, and has access to BS from the first month. They don't set targets to explore new things so the only solution is whine because there isn't something better to do. (There are, but they are LAZY to search). On the same way Rome fall. When they had the pure spirit and the motive of basic needs, like food, they conquer the world. When they fill their bellies easy enough downfall came. Solutions? Crunch the economy. Make the game harder. Whiners will still whine, but the rest 99% will continue/start enjoying the game once more.
Berand The Scope	Posted - 2007.12.13 14:45:00 - [50] The grass is always greener on the other side, or something like that. It's actually very interesting to me. I spent years as an admin on a large MUD, and we had this same phenomenon. Players complaining on the forums that five or ten years ago, things were SOO much better. I got a secret for you though: the good old days weren't all that. They were much the same as today actually. Heck, I remember one of the first times I considered leaving Eve was when the Devs refused to do anything about can looting in high sec, back before they caved and put in the current aggro flagging system. That was back in my newbie days when I actually used to mine, anyway. Basically, even "back then" there were good sides and bad sides, just like now. For some reason people just have this tendency to look back and see nothing but roses when they're trying to compare it to the ills of today. Must be one of those human nature things.
Valrandir Gallente Slacker Industries Cult of War	Posted - 2007.12.13 14:55:00 - [51] What a bunch of idiotics short-sighted biomass. -------------------------------- This has surpassed the Yarrdware specification and has been dubbed Uberware - Oveur
Valrandir Gallente Slacker Industries Cult of War	Posted - 2007.12.13 14:55:00 - [52] Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes In the beginning, us players replied to the devs in concise, polite, though through (mostly) arguments. Today, most player replies are vile, insulting, non-constructive, demanding anger attacks. I would personally not read nor reply to such garbage. That devs still do only shows that they are greater than me and havn't given up hope of finding one or two good posts. This -------------------------------- This has surpassed the Yarrdware specification and has been dubbed Uberware - Oveur
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Enuma Elish.	Posted - 2007.12.13 15:11:00 - [53] CCP devs got flamed off the forums. It's now a festering sinkhole of trolls, quickly and rapaciously tearing to shreds any post of quality or value. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? GMP and TNP
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Enuma Elish.	Posted - 2007.12.13 15:13:00 - [54] Originally by: Valrandir Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes In the beginning, us players replied to the devs in concise, polite, though through (mostly) arguments. Today, most player replies are vile, insulting, non-constructive, demanding anger attacks. I would personally not read nor reply to such garbage. That devs still do only shows that they are greater than me and havn't given up hope of finding one or two good posts. This I remain shocked and horrified that in ... actually I think it was the most recent discussion of a change. You must remember, it was the one to carriers. But anyway, someone actually made death threats to the dev concerned. Several someones in fact. That's just unacceptable behaviour IMO, and I'm almost ashamed to be a part of that kind of community. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? GMP and TNP
Snake Doctor MacroIntel United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2007.12.13 15:28:00 - [55] I've given up hope. The new changes suck. The game isn't really fun for me anymore. I'm not leaving, just not inclined to spend what limited time available to play Eve. I've put the Rifter Manual on hold, haven't been able to do any MacroIntel stuff, no new art. Nothing. I just fell out of love with the game. The new graphics aren't a big deal. I was happy with the old ones. There are some serious bugs and playability issues that need to be addressed, but never will be. CCP, please stop doing what you're doing before you end up with Star Wars Galaxies. Stop "improving" the game. All you're doing is breaking our addictions. Join MacroIntel!
Estephania	Posted - 2007.12.13 15:33:00 - [56] The main problem is that CCP's vision of the game is not shared with the community and community is left in the darkness about what to expect and why certain changes are taking place at all (latest carrier nerf only to make T2 mega-expensive Freighters useful, mineral compression changes, etc.). If I'd like to stay optimistic then the reason for that is the community growth to more than 200k ppl and it's impossible to continue with that "famliy" atmosphere of the good old Eve. If I slip into the pessimism, I'd say that it's because CCP wants to simply increase the $$$ influx either by encouraging alt play, not doing a thing against sweatshop farmers or trying to attract general MMO audience instead of the niche audience. Which is true - I don't know.
Greme Amarr Slacker Industries Cult of War	Posted - 2007.12.13 16:02:00 - [57] Originally by: Futher Bezluden Anyone remember long, long ago when CCP actually seemed to listen to player suggestions and recommendations, when they would post up potential changes with explanations behind what they were doing, or when they put something in then realized it was a really bad idea and rolled back the change? Anyone remember long, long ago when the EVE community listened to what the Devs were actually saying and didn't mindlessly whine at every single aspect?
HydroSan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.13 16:21:00 - [58] Edited by: HydroSan on 13/12/2007 16:22:29 My biggest concern isn't that they're changing things, it's that they're ramming through massive, sweeping changes all at once and not letting anyone know what their 'intent' is until a week before it goes live, and basically ignoring suggestions. "But CCP, there aren't any replacements for carrier logistics yet! What should we do?!" "CARRIERS != HAULERS, DEAL WITH IT." ARM scripts which have made every battleship sniper outclassed by the Rokh (Rokh tracks and does better damage than the Mega now, at better range). The Arazu and Lachesis entirely screwed over while Caldari ECM is once again king of the EW hill. Nerfing the already fragile and easy-to-kill interdictors for apparently no reason. Then there's stuff where it's like they don't even know what they're doing. Carriers were first nerfed by castrating their fighters, but then they decided the combat capabilities of carriers were fine and castrated the logistical capabilities. Then they say something about 'reconfiguring a carrier for logistics' and that gets everyone excited but then go "** it" and nerf carriers anyways, not to mention the proposed and implemented 'alternative' costing up to SIX BILLION ISK to produce just in materials, not including time spent, logistics costs, etc. How do they expect smaller alliances to cope with that? It's short sighted. And back on the subject of carriers, CCP has said they're going to "look into" fighters while probably means another heavy-handed nerf and probably the coup de grace on the carrier class as a whole, because one or two ****s get ganked in lowsec by a gatecamping carrier which therefore makes carriers "solo PvP pwnmobiles" despite the fact I've killed carriers in groups of seven or eight battleships. Yeah I'm a carrier pilot and I'm bitter.
Pitt Bull Caldari Naval Reserve	Posted - 2007.12.13 16:24:00 - [59] Originally by: Talos Darkhart Eve is dead and has been for about a year what we are playing now is some semi aborted sequal designed to milk as much cash as they can before world of darkness is released. This quote speaks truth.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Enuma Elish.	Posted - 2007.12.13 16:46:00 - [60] Originally by: Snake Doctor I've given up hope. The new changes suck. The game isn't really fun for me anymore. I'm not leaving, just not inclined to spend what limited time available to play Eve. I've put the Rifter Manual on hold, haven't been able to do any MacroIntel stuff, no new art. Nothing. I just fell out of love with the game. The new graphics aren't a big deal. I was happy with the old ones. There are some serious bugs and playability issues that need to be addressed, but never will be. CCP, please stop doing what you're doing before you end up with Star Wars Galaxies. Stop "improving" the game. All you're doing is breaking our addictions. Oddly enough, I don't actually care all that much about game changes. I quite enjoy EVE for the sake of the community, and ... well, y'know, new stuff is nice, and if something gets changed for balance reasons... so what? Figuring out a new solution to a problem is interesting. My major reason that EVE occasionally feels like it's 'going a bit wrong' (not that i'm in any danger of leaving any time soon) is the incipient souring of the community spirit. Thankfully, I know some other examples of communities within EVE, who serve to prove to me that it's a very definite vocal minority. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? GMP and TNP

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