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Futher Bezluden
Minmatar
ORIGIN SYSTEMS
Atlas Alliance
   |
Posted - 2007.12.13 02:46:00 -
[1]
Anyone remember long, long ago when CCP actually seemed to listen to player suggestions and recommendations, when they would post up potential changes with explanations behind what they were doing, or when they put something in then realized it was a really bad idea and rolled back the change?
Anyone remember that CCP? Does it still exist? The entire Trinity release is filled with things created privately behind closed doors without any player input (other than complaints on the forums being ignored after players tested it on SISI) and put right into the game despite having not given any explanation as to why such changes were made. Moreso, no explanation of the rational behind leaving certain things alone.
Myrm and Eos: explanation given
ARM Script Addition: no explanation given, no other options that were tested shown.
Sweeping Interdictor Changes: none given but poly/odj setups remain untouched.
Cargo in ships not allowed in carriers/rorquals: no other reason than to force invention of 8 billion isk jump freighters -no delay period for alliances to attempt jump freighter invention and get them fielded.
Community call to change polycarb/odj packed ships: ignored, ccp must love eve being nothing but nanogangs and blobs.
Community call to limit Damps/TD's to their respective ewar ships: ARM Script added, they are just as useful as before on non-ewar ships due to the modules that counter them being scripted too.
Amarr ships generally being the least used due to problems the community has asked CCP to address for the past year: ignored but the T2 "caldarified" Amarr ships got buffed -just keep training and grinding for isk, you'll get T2 amarr missile ships without cap issues.
Uselessness of the AF: tons of ideas put up by community, AF unchanged.
Yeah, I'm being a grumpy old **** and misery loves company. Sound off about other things CCP changed without explanation or completely ignored. Don't bother asking for stuff, I've already given it away.
THUKKER -Be Paranoid
Skeet Skeet L33t |
TardRusher
RennTech
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.13 03:00:00 -
[2]
Just give up. They don't give a **** anymore. Common sense doesn't apply to MMO's.
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Alski
Gallente
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.13 03:08:00 -
[3]
I just wish they’d tell us about all the changes they are planning on making before the changes actually hit the test server, so that we can pick apart the pros/cons and hopefully expose huge flaws in concept before any coding is done.
Actually, what would be better is if the devs could tell us WHY they are looking at changing something, recent example: carrier logistics change, prompted a threadnaught and forum spam of epic proportions full of people saying it was going to make 0.0 logistics way harder and more time consuming, followed by CCP basicley waiting till the last moment then whispering quietly "yeah we know, that was our intention"
Big changes in module/ship/game mechanics/balance should be preceded by the devs telling us what they are planning on doing and why, the why is probably more important than the what, because sometimes its almost impossible to see what it is they are trying to accomplish, not flameing, just saying 
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(combat) Patch belonging to CCP hits your drones, wrecking their liberty and freedom.
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Yohanes Flame
Point-Zero
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.13 03:29:00 -
[4]
The only thing the community wants is information. If something is changing and we do not have any say in it CCP should just say so. With a why.
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Erotic Irony
0bsession
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Posted - 2007.12.13 03:58:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Futher Bezluden
Anyone remember long, long ago when CCP actually seemed to listen to player suggestions and recommendations, when they would post up potential changes with explanations behind what they were doing, or when they put something in then realized it was a really bad idea and rolled back the change?
Anyone remember that CCP? Does it still exist? The entire Trinity release is filled with things created privately behind closed doors without any player input (other than complaints on the forums being ignored after players tested it on SISI) and put right into the game despite having not given any explanation as to why such changes were made. Moreso, no explanation of the rational behind leaving certain things alone.
Myrm and Eos: explanation given
ARM Script Addition: no explanation given, no other options that were tested shown.
Sweeping Interdictor Changes: none given but poly/odj setups remain untouched.
Cargo in ships not allowed in carriers/rorquals: no other reason than to force invention of 8 billion isk jump freighters -no delay period for alliances to attempt jump freighter invention and get them fielded.
Community call to change polycarb/odj packed ships: ignored, ccp must love eve being nothing but nanogangs and blobs.
Community call to limit Damps/TD's to their respective ewar ships: ARM Script added, they are just as useful as before on non-ewar ships due to the modules that counter them being scripted too.
Amarr ships generally being the least used due to problems the community has asked CCP to address for the past year: ignored but the T2 "caldarified" Amarr ships got buffed -just keep training and grinding for isk, you'll get T2 amarr missile ships without cap issues.
Uselessness of the AF: tons of ideas put up by community, AF unchanged.
Yeah, I'm being a grumpy old **** and misery loves company. Sound off about other things CCP changed without explanation or completely ignored. Don't bother asking for stuff, I've already given it away.
get used to the changes, stop ranting
___
Eve Players are not very smart.
Support Killmail Overhaul
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Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance
The Last Stand
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Posted - 2007.12.13 04:08:00 -
[6]
Can I have your stuff?
----------------
Tarminic - 29 Million SP in pink Forum Warfare |
Hannobaal
Gallente
Igneus Auctorita
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.12.13 04:14:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Futher Bezluden
The entire Trinity release is filled with things created privately behind closed doors without any player input (other than complaints on the forums being ignored after players tested it on SISI) and put right into the game despite having not given any explanation as to why such changes were made.
Explanations were given right here on the forums for most changes. I remember them. You just seem to have missed them.
And to be honest, I personally find the opinions of a lot of people on these forums rather ****ty, and shudder at the thought of CCP listening to them. (Unfortuantely it still happens as we saw with the massive nerbat swing to sensor dampeners after all the whining.)
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Futher Bezluden
Minmatar
ORIGIN SYSTEMS
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.13 06:19:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Hannobaal
Originally by: Futher Bezluden
The entire Trinity release is filled with things created privately behind closed doors without any player input (other than complaints on the forums being ignored after players tested it on SISI) and put right into the game despite having not given any explanation as to why such changes were made.
Explanations were given right here on the forums for most changes. I remember them. You just seem to have missed them.
And to be honest, I personally find the opinions of a lot of people on these forums rather ****ty, and shudder at the thought of CCP listening to them. (Unfortuantely it still happens as we saw with the massive nerbat swing to sensor dampeners after all the whining.)
Is that lipstick or koolaid stains? Yup, you drank the koolaid. Massive nerfbat... lolz. Balance would be Damp/TD with 60-70% affect only if you have the racially appropriate ewar ship and all other ships getting 10% and losing a lot of cap for their efforts not almost 50-55% STR (scripted) with a single rig on a non-ewar ship.
THUKKER -Be Paranoid
Skeet Skeet L33t |
Soulita
Gallente
Inner Core
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Posted - 2007.12.13 06:28:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Tarminic
Can I have your stuff?
Tarmac, you always ask for peeps stuff - must have a lot by now, do you?
Now give it all to me. I want all your stuff. NOW!
On topic - lots of players playing EVE nowadays, many more than when I started.
The more players we have, the more difficult it becomes for CCP to do interactive development.
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Kata Dakini
An Eye For An Eye
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.12.13 06:38:00 -
[10]
Personally, I like the carrier/logistics changes. Carriers (while aptly named for the task) shouldn't be for hauling.
As for AFs, they have a role, they just aren't used that way because people don't find usefulness in things unless it's bigger better faster more.
I honestly don't have a problem with any changes that have been made to Eve over the years. Eve has (and likely always will be) a one dimensional/flavor of the month game. If I were a dev, that would drive me nuts. Where are logistics ships in practice? Where are destroyers? Who uses BCs for their intended role?
So much of Eve is untouched it's silly.
For more enjoyment and greater efficiency, consumption is being standardized.
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Mnengli Noiliffe
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Posted - 2007.12.13 06:46:00 -
[11]
they just need to fire nozh and fendahl and bring Tuxford back.
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Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
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Posted - 2007.12.13 07:08:00 -
[12]
Of course they give a reason for ALL the changes: balance. They want to balance out things.
But that explanation is as good as no explanation at all and only empty words.
CCP must be careful that they got not blinded by their vision of Eve! It is good and nice to have some grand vision and how it would be great. But actually with 200k people now playing Eve maybe they should be a bit more open minded about their vision and adjust it to other peoples (the players) vision as well.
It is a lot to ask, surely. They did and do all the work through the long years in countless hours. But still, some more discussion about the direction of Eve might be nice (otherwise all the talk about Eve becomming more than just a game, that it became almost something alife is quite hollow talk). At the moment it is just that CCP sees its vision of Eve and is going to implement. If the players moan and dislike changes it is answered with 'it is because of the greater good for Eve' to 'balance it'. At best there are small changes or some delay in the implementation but no fundamental discussion happens.
No discussion about the direction. I am quite sure that CCP would find a lot of ideas and creativity amongst the players! They only need to ask!
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Vitrael
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.12.13 07:09:00 -
[13]
I'm curious, OP, how the Tempest got "nerfed" in Trinity?
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Karyuudo Tydraad
Caldari
Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services
The Acquisition
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Posted - 2007.12.13 07:23:00 -
[14]
I've seen a lot of those explanations that you list as missing stated by devs in forum posts, if not in dev blogs. |
Gripen
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.12.13 07:36:00 -
[15]
May be it's because CCP grew bigger? In the beginning there was only TomB who was behind all the game balance changes but now they probably have a sizable team in content development and design which is like a focus group on community itself. Every of them have it's own preferred race and play style so they are just consult with each other and don't need our opinion anymore.
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Nian Banks
Minmatar
Berserkers of Aesir
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Posted - 2007.12.13 07:55:00 -
[16]
I do believe there were two main turning points for CCP, One was when they realised they has the cash to buy White Wolf, that was pretty big and changed their attitude from nice and pleasant to arrogant and unpleasant. Then the next change was when they realised they could make another MMO and are in the works of creating it now, You know who cares about a few hundred thousand players when you can make a fantasy mmo based off white wolfs plethora of RPG's and will get millions of players.
So yes I can understand their attitude, its the very definition of greed, desire and all thats unpleasant in the world, and CCP's heading down that road right now, EvE will do as a cash cow, they will kill it eventually as the effort required to maintain such a good intelligent mmo and please the moderately intelligent player base is just not worth it, especially when you can crease an MMO fantasy that has a vast majority of its player base still yet to hit puberty. They are stupid and naive and are easy to keep quiet. So the perfect cash cows.
ôMoney is the root of all evil, and yet it is such a useful root that we cannot get on without it any more than we can without potatoes.ö Louisa May Alcott
So instead of throwing money at CCP, perhaps its time we threw potatoes at them.
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Hannobaal
Gallente
Igneus Auctorita
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.12.13 07:58:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Kata Dakini
Where are logistics ships in practice?
In many places. Two Guardians (or Basilisks, but not quite as much since more people tank armor) working together are awesome at keeping a small gang alive in battle. Nearly to the point of being overpowered.
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Ghyran
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Posted - 2007.12.13 08:10:00 -
[18]
I think CCP are tending to operate more towards telling us what we want instead of listening to what we want.
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Gone'Postal
Minmatar
Vengeance 8 Interceptors
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Posted - 2007.12.13 08:49:00 -
[19]
The OLD CCP were much better, Personal I think they have just picked up on the fact that, they don't have to listen to a single idea the playerbase has.
Eve is growing and with that, so what if they anger 50 or 100 players and they head for other games, whats that when there is nothing atm released that can counter CCP's single shard MMO space shooter?
All credit where it's due, CCP found a hole in teh gamers market and made something to fill it, and like most things, the die hard players will get shafted for the sake of more players.
Originally by: Tarminic
You honestly paid a hundred dollars to someone to fix this? Unless they gave you a blowjob for free afterwards, it wasn't worth it.
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DJ P
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Posted - 2007.12.13 09:02:00 -
[20]
Guys, CCP hear the player base.
If some people don't like some changes is their problem. Other companies don't even ask your opinion or talk to you like CCP. And you have to pay for those changes either way.
EVE today is way better than was back in 2004 I started. There are more things to do, more opportunities and better character specialization.
Regarding the Industrials/Carrier issue (because that's what most of the people complain about). I must say that a lot of people found it from the start bit odd and unrealistic.
Because something is convenient, doesn't mean is good for the game.
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Estephania
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Posted - 2007.12.13 09:21:00 -
[21]
CCP went all the way from a small bunch of guys who wanted to create a special MMO and fill a niche in on-line gaming to a full blown corporation where the vision is secondary and subs graph is a primary concern. It is not as bad as with SOE or Blizzard, but it's not the old good CCP any more.
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Gojyu
Ever Flow
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.12.13 09:22:00 -
[22]
Carrier nerf was repealed, as were a couple of others during rev II. Explanations were given and debate was held on all of the issues you list. If you didn't care enough before the expansion to look at these changes and read the discussions on them you do not deserve to be able to create a thread on them now
Now accepting signature commissions, contact me in-game for pricing |
Hasak Rain
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.12.13 09:55:00 -
[23]
lol at this thread.
Nobody here has said anything that can't be read on any MMO message board in the world. I have played quite a few MMOs and it is always the same garbage over time.
""Company X" doesn't listen to us anymore....wah!"
Quite frankly, I am glad that CCP {or anyone else} doesn't listen to the same 50-100 Forum whiners and their alts. The game is much better of because of it.
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Gaven Blands
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Posted - 2007.12.13 10:02:00 -
[24]
But we have nice graphics now.
And everybody knows that as long as it looks nice, and no attempt is made to make it play nice, it will be a winning product that will stand the test of time.
Dispensing with the sarcasm in five, four, three, two.... one.
--
Awwwww Diddums! Did I wardec your highsec alt recently or something? |
Xtreem
Gallente
Knockaround Guys Inc.
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.13 10:37:00 -
[25]
i must admit i am starting to lose the love for eve. :(
been playing for over 4 years, with only one break which was forced due to moving and no internet connection.
i get things are changed and balenced as they see fit, but i am feeling things are getting nerfed without reason after years of being just fine! thats the thing i really don't get, ok so a new ship comes out, they feel its slightly too powerful and change it, thats fine i can live with that, but changing things after say 3/4 years!!?? makes me sad.
though being a forum *****, i'm a member of several gaming forums, and other general forums and found several long term eve;ers on these sites, and unfortunatly this view is shared by these people and it is more known amoung the vets, to be given an easier time for the new players.
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Xtro 2
Caldari
Pre-nerfed Tactics
SOUL CARTEL
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Posted - 2007.12.13 10:56:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Xtro 2 on 13/12/2007 10:57:29
ive lost interest, mostly due to the lack of real new content, for me new shiny ships dont really do much for me, we need new things to do, like planetary flight/fights (which they had a rolling demoo of a while back and it looked sweet), add pos-alike resource structures on the planets themselves.
Have destroyed ships in planet atmospheres produce no can, instead they get sucked down to the planet surface, where someone can use their archaeology skills to try and salvage some of the parts.
I dont really care whats added tbh as long as its not ship after ship after ship, it lost its novelty value quite some time ago.
Eve players always makes the claim that eve is a harsh sandbox, tbh thats rubbish, its become a fluffy carebear land to suit the paying majority, fluffy eve gamer.
currently hibernating each of my accounts slowly atm, and might leave just the 1 active. (maybe).
Xtro 2 - Tactically Insane Tradesman.
Insanity, or madness, is a semi-permanent, severe mental disorder. |
Krxon Blade
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Posted - 2007.12.13 11:03:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Ghyran
I think CCP are tending to operate more towards telling us what we want instead of listening to what we want.
If you have everything you want life suddenly became boring :)
--
EVE offline game
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McFly
Path of Light
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.12.13 11:24:00 -
[28]
eve is on a wierd path, i just hope that someone at ccp realizes it and pulls it back on track with the good old days.
--
--my opinions do not reflect that of my corp nor my alliance-- |
UGWidowmaker
Caldari
Setenta Corp
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Posted - 2007.12.13 11:35:00 -
[29]
well i think ccp listens to the players, i know for afact that i asked for
1: some pos beacon where u could jump cap ships too.
2: archeoligy skills or how u spell it always forget.
both are now ingame.. im not saying thats its my credit they are, but i asked about this maybe 2 years ago and w00p ingame they are.
i do agree on nerfin thou.. heck look at the amarr its ******..
OMFG
I am the widowmaker stay tuned.
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Talos Darkhart
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Posted - 2007.12.13 12:19:00 -
[30]
Meh CCP have been slowly turning them selves into soe mk2 for awhile now it's been a long time since they cared about anything except the ISK.
You only have to look at a couple of threads that had less the glowing opinons on changes to the game over the last few years to see ccp say somthing along the lines of
"well yeah change X was not handled well and 10k of ppl quit BUT we got 12k of new subs so who gives a flying Fú$%"
After I saw a better spun version of that statement from wangler I knew it was time to get ready to bail.
Eve is dead and has been for about a year what we are playing now is some semi aborted sequal designed to milk as much cash as they can before world of darkness is released.
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James Rockafella
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Posted - 2007.12.13 12:31:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Hasak Rain
lol at this thread.
Nobody here has said anything that can't be read on any MMO message board in the world. I have played quite a few MMOs and it is always the same garbage over time.
""Company X" doesn't listen to us anymore....wah!"
Quite frankly, I am glad that CCP {or anyone else} doesn't listen to the same 50-100 Forum whiners and their alts. The game is much better of because of it.
I agree with this post fully.
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Exiled One
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.12.13 12:47:00 -
[32]
The old CCP you say...the **** you know about old ccp. Bring back my gankgeddon, oh right. Cry me le ******* river. 
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Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr
Do Or Die And Live Or Try
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Posted - 2007.12.13 13:00:00 -
[33]
In the beginning, us players replied to the devs in concise, polite, though through (mostly) arguments.
Today, most player replies are vile, insulting, non-constructive, demanding anger attacks.
I would personally not read nor reply to such garbage. That devs still do only shows that they are greater than me and havn't given up hope of finding one or two good posts.
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Kastar
Memphis Technologies
Intergalactic Brotherhood
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Posted - 2007.12.13 13:00:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Kastar on 13/12/2007 13:03:01
I bet all my stuff that the very reason for the situation the OP draws (if it exists) is in fact caused by all of these sucky whine and complaint posts.
Just consider, whatever they would do, be it good or bad a change, people just complain.
Most people that are into some form of people management or depend on interactivity with others will testify that with 95% of the individuals you can't do jack. All they're good for is fodder or to be pushed into the right direction. That's the exact same principle CCP is obliging to.
If you ask people for feedback, people will state what's worng and whine instead of giving constructive reply.
My 2 cents ... ? Quit these posts, give it some time and let them do their work.
I wonder when all selfdeclared smart-asses will start to comprehend that it's in CCP's own interest to keep this game ok, so please give them some credit if they implement something that doesn't suit YOU.
My oldest char is 4 years old. In the beginning I mined, shot people and had fun. Right now, I mine and still shoot people and have an equal amount of fun. I don't care how or by means of which flavour of the day. This game is about the friends you fly with.
I'm no fanboi, I just want you to stop ruining the athmosphere of the game I and others like with your silly whines and cries for attention. I want the crybabies to go away. What kind of bloody masochists are most of the whiners I see these days, when they keep playing a game they obviously don't like.
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Malcanis
High4Life
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.13 13:04:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Futher Bezluden
Anyone remember long, long ago when CCP actually seemed to listen to player suggestions and recommendations, when they would post up potential changes with explanations behind what they were doing, or when they put something in then realized it was a really bad idea and rolled back the change?
Anyone remember that CCP? Does it still exist? The entire Trinity release is filled with things created privately behind closed doors without any player input (other than complaints on the forums being ignored after players tested it on SISI) and put right into the game despite having not given any explanation as to why such changes were made. Moreso, no explanation of the rational behind leaving certain things alone.
Myrm and Eos: explanation given
ARM Script Addition: no explanation given, no other options that were tested shown.
Sweeping Interdictor Changes: none given but poly/odj setups remain untouched.
Cargo in ships not allowed in carriers/rorquals: no other reason than to force invention of 8 billion isk jump freighters -no delay period for alliances to attempt jump freighter invention and get them fielded.
Community call to change polycarb/odj packed ships: ignored, ccp must love eve being nothing but nanogangs and blobs.
Community call to limit Damps/TD's to their respective ewar ships: ARM Script added, they are just as useful as before on non-ewar ships due to the modules that counter them being scripted too.
Amarr ships generally being the least used due to problems the community has asked CCP to address for the past year: ignored but the T2 "caldarified" Amarr ships got buffed -just keep training and grinding for isk, you'll get T2 amarr missile ships without cap issues.
Uselessness of the AF: tons of ideas put up by community, AF unchanged.
Yeah, I'm being a grumpy old **** and misery loves company. Sound off about other things CCP changed without explanation or completely ignored. Don't bother asking for stuff, I've already given it away.
Given the fantastic volume and bitter intensity of the whining on these forums, I'm amazed that they ever read them at all.
Seriously, the sense of entitlement projected by many posters is unbelievable. FoTMers who are entitled to have the best ship in class, Carebears who are entitled to make infinite amounts of ISK in perfect safety, Gankbears who are entitled to get 40 kills a night, Skillbears who are entitled to start with maxed learning skills and so on. Different play styles, but all of them having in common the rock-hard belief that they are the most important person in the game, all of them having in common the complete failure to be able to see the game from outside the most narrow, selfish, self-serving perspective. Unable to believe that any change isn't a personal attack aimed directly at them. Unable to believe that failing to get the changes they want made isn't a deliberate omission because CCP hate miners/pirates/PvPers/alliances/solo players/old players/new players/Amarr/Caldari/Gallante/Minmatar... in short: ME!
I'd say that, collectively, we get exactly the CCP we deserve, if not better.
To sum up: Unless we get Space Whales, I'm canceling my accounts
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Esmenet
Gallente
|
Posted - 2007.12.13 13:06:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Hasak Rain
lol at this thread.
Nobody here has said anything that can't be read on any MMO message board in the world. I have played quite a few MMOs and it is always the same garbage over time.
""Company X" doesn't listen to us anymore....wah!"
Quite frankly, I am glad that CCP {or anyone else} doesn't listen to the same 50-100 Forum whiners and their alts. The game is much better of because of it.
Exactly. The game would be complete crap if they listened to all the whiners here with inflated egos and anger management problems.
If you have ever played another mmo you will see that the communication from CCP is about 100 times better than most other mmo companies. I have played a lot of mmos and i have never seen this amount of dev posts anywhere. But one thing is true for all mmo's, their forums are full of whines, especially everytime something changes. At some point dev's are bound to realise practically nomatter what changes someone will whine.
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Kreul Intentions ([email protected]) |
Lysianna
|
Posted - 2007.12.13 13:15:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Lysianna on 13/12/2007 13:19:15
You cannot Breast feed your kid forever. It's good that CCP is taking a bigger distance from it's community. People seem to think that because CCP is not posting on the forums, it's because they don't read them. However, I simply think that they don't always reply for simple reason such as "I"m busy working on the game"
People need to realize that it's not actually easy to maintain a game and if you start trying to please a community that's breaking the 300K people, you're in for alot of talking and no work.
CCP is pushing new technology and it's working quite fine. It has some issues for now but EVE 2003 wasn't better then today. I rather think people got spoiled by CCP and now they're acting like spoiled kids that didn't get their candy. I'm not saying they should quit but they should at least think about why CCP did those balance changes or why things are done like that. At the current moment, I haven't seen anything that was done out of proportion, everything made sense so far. It's not always cool but geez, it's not hard to find work around.
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Kastar
Memphis Technologies
Intergalactic Brotherhood
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Posted - 2007.12.13 13:16:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Malcanis
To sum up: Unless we get Space Whales, I'm canceling my accounts
Oh so signed  Please give me a death ray.
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ry ry
StateCorp
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2007.12.13 13:16:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Talos Darkhart
Eve is dead and has been for about a year what we are playing now is some semi aborted sequal designed to milk as much cash as they can before world of darkness is released.
eve has been dead every day since before it was even released.
yet it, and you, are still here. go figure.
*again. |
Sakura Nihil
Stimulus
|
Posted - 2007.12.13 13:23:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Mnengli Noiliffe
they just need to fire nozh and fendahl and bring Tuxford back.
Its a sad day when this is actually sounding like a good idea  ...
Say no to knee-jerk additions and nerfs, mmkay? |
Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance
The Last Stand
|
Posted - 2007.12.13 13:31:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes
In the beginning, us players replied to the devs in concise, polite, though through (mostly) arguments.
Today, most player replies are vile, insulting, non-constructive, demanding anger attacks.
I would personally not read nor reply to such garbage. That devs still do only shows that they are greater than me and havn't given up hope of finding one or two good posts.
This. I'm glad that CCP had a dedicated balance team instead of listening to the %5-%10 of the whiners on the forums.
Remember the carrier nerf whine? Assuming that every carrier pilot has an average of two carriers they represent less than 10% of the playerbase, yet going by the forums you'd think that CCP was going around eating babies.
----------------
Tarminic - 29 Million SP in pink Forum Warfare |
Verone
Veto Corp
|
Posted - 2007.12.13 13:39:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Futher Bezluden
Amarr ships generally being the least used due to problems the community has asked CCP to address for the past year: ignored but the T2 "caldarified" Amarr ships got buffed -just keep training and grinding for isk, you'll get T2 amarr missile ships without cap issues.
Amarr turret boats are fine. Been flying them for four years, there's no problem with them at all if you use your loaf when fitting them.
>>> TRIBUTE TO A FALLEN WINGMAN <<<
|
Kastar
Memphis Technologies
Intergalactic Brotherhood
|
Posted - 2007.12.13 13:45:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Verone
Originally by: Futher Bezluden
Amarr ships generally being the least used due to problems the community has asked CCP to address for the past year: ignored but the T2 "caldarified" Amarr ships got buffed -just keep training and grinding for isk, you'll get T2 amarr missile ships without cap issues.
Amarr turret boats are fine. Been flying them for four years, there's no problem with them at all if you use your loaf when fitting them.
Stay on topic you, we were whining about the whining whiners 
(You're right though. I was even lucky enough to tackle an astarte in a pilgrim recently, so no complaints at all)
-----------------------------------------------
|
Wild Rho
Amarr
GoonFleet
|
Posted - 2007.12.13 13:47:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes
In the beginning, us players replied to the devs in concise, polite, though through (mostly) arguments.
Today, most player replies are vile, insulting, non-constructive, demanding anger attacks.
I would personally not read nor reply to such garbage. That devs still do only shows that they are greater than me and havn't given up hope of finding one or two good posts.
Agrred with Jaketh. Most of the stuff posted on the forums these days isn't worth responding to mostly because the player base has a strong tendancy to act like a spoiled brat making demands with little to no real valid reasoning or thought.
Good threads are more a novelty these days rather than the standard.
|
Leon 026
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
|
Posted - 2007.12.13 13:57:00 -
[45]
Yes, CCP = EA.
Quit now and give me your stuff before its too late. THE SKY IS FALLING! OMG!
-------
Leon 026
Once I was fallen, now I have wings
|
Garia666
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
|
Posted - 2007.12.13 14:16:00 -
[46]
i think there several changes..
In the beginning of EVE, CCP needed allot of players, This to keep out of the cost and mabe make a little proffit. They where more or less ineed of subscribers, and thats why they listend very carefully of what the community had to say. @the start off EVE it was not realy normal to pay an monthly fee to a game. And most people who played eve where mature adults trying to have some fun.
Now a days CCP is a large company with allot of employees. EVE has over 200k subcribers. making it a multi million dollar company with a steady income.
The eve player base has exploded and over time more and more people get used to the idea of paying a montly fee and younger and younger people started to play eve.
Ever since the Goons arrised, communicating on the forums has fallen from an mature degree to an inmature and childish smack fest.
And most People are getting MMO spoiled making them more inpatient and swallow less and less..
This and the fact that CCP is growing bigger and bigger makes it that there is less communication with the EVE community
->My Vids<-
|
Lucy Light
|
Posted - 2007.12.13 14:20:00 -
[47]
ccp is giving us a sandbox.
but they decide which type of sands..
I like to eat one nutella sandwich for breakfast |
Aya Otosaki
|
Posted - 2007.12.13 14:21:00 -
[48]
old ccp is probably working on that vampire game.
-----
Ignorance is my strength. |
DJ P
|
Posted - 2007.12.13 14:33:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Garia666
Ever since the Goons arrised, communicating on the forums has fallen from an mature degree to an inmature and childish smack fest.
And most People are getting MMO spoiled making them more inpatient and swallow less and less..
Amen.
I remember the good old days where a cruiser was HUGE investment. To make ISK so you can replace your frigate, you had to spit blood. Forums were fun to visit and read something productive. (No Concord or Sentry Guns).
Today everyone (almost) makes easy isk safe, and has access to BS from the first month. They don't set targets to explore new things so the only solution is whine because there isn't something better to do. (There are, but they are LAZY to search).
On the same way Rome fall. When they had the pure spirit and the motive of basic needs, like food, they conquer the world. When they fill their bellies easy enough downfall came.
Solutions? Crunch the economy. Make the game harder.
Whiners will still whine, but the rest 99% will continue/start enjoying the game once more.
|
Berand
The Scope
|
Posted - 2007.12.13 14:45:00 -
[50]
The grass is always greener on the other side, or something like that.
It's actually very interesting to me. I spent years as an admin on a large MUD, and we had this same phenomenon. Players complaining on the forums that five or ten years ago, things were SOO much better. I got a secret for you though: the good old days weren't all that. They were much the same as today actually. Heck, I remember one of the first times I considered leaving Eve was when the Devs refused to do anything about can looting in high sec, back before they caved and put in the current aggro flagging system. That was back in my newbie days when I actually used to mine, anyway.
Basically, even "back then" there were good sides and bad sides, just like now. For some reason people just have this tendency to look back and see nothing but roses when they're trying to compare it to the ills of today. Must be one of those human nature things.
|
Valrandir
Gallente
Slacker Industries
Cult of War
|
Posted - 2007.12.13 14:55:00 -
[51]
What a bunch of idiotics short-sighted biomass.
--------------------------------
This has surpassed the Yarrdware specification and has been dubbed Uberware
- Oveur
|
Valrandir
Gallente
Slacker Industries
Cult of War
|
Posted - 2007.12.13 14:55:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes
In the beginning, us players replied to the devs in concise, polite, though through (mostly) arguments.
Today, most player replies are vile, insulting, non-constructive, demanding anger attacks.
I would personally not read nor reply to such garbage. That devs still do only shows that they are greater than me and havn't given up hope of finding one or two good posts.
This
--------------------------------
This has surpassed the Yarrdware specification and has been dubbed Uberware
- Oveur
|
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Enuma Elish.
|
Posted - 2007.12.13 15:11:00 -
[53]
CCP devs got flamed off the forums. It's now a festering sinkhole of trolls, quickly and rapaciously tearing to shreds any post of quality or value.
--
Crane needs more grid
249km locking?
GMP and TNP |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Enuma Elish.
|
Posted - 2007.12.13 15:13:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Valrandir
Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes
In the beginning, us players replied to the devs in concise, polite, though through (mostly) arguments.
Today, most player replies are vile, insulting, non-constructive, demanding anger attacks.
I would personally not read nor reply to such garbage. That devs still do only shows that they are greater than me and havn't given up hope of finding one or two good posts.
This
I remain shocked and horrified that in ... actually I think it was the most recent discussion of a change. You must remember, it was the one to carriers. But anyway, someone actually made death threats to the dev concerned. Several someones in fact.
That's just unacceptable behaviour IMO, and I'm almost ashamed to be a part of that kind of community.
--
Crane needs more grid
249km locking?
GMP and TNP |
Snake Doctor
MacroIntel
United Corporations Against Macros
|
Posted - 2007.12.13 15:28:00 -
[55]
I've given up hope.
The new changes suck. The game isn't really fun for me anymore.
I'm not leaving, just not inclined to spend what limited time available to play Eve.
I've put the Rifter Manual on hold, haven't been able to do any MacroIntel stuff, no new art. Nothing.
I just fell out of love with the game. The new graphics aren't a big deal. I was happy with the old ones. There are some serious bugs and playability issues that need to be addressed, but never will be.
CCP, please stop doing what you're doing before you end up with Star Wars Galaxies.
Stop "improving" the game. All you're doing is breaking our addictions.
Join MacroIntel! |
Estephania
|
Posted - 2007.12.13 15:33:00 -
[56]
The main problem is that CCP's vision of the game is not shared with the community and community is left in the darkness about what to expect and why certain changes are taking place at all (latest carrier nerf only to make T2 mega-expensive Freighters useful, mineral compression changes, etc.). If I'd like to stay optimistic then the reason for that is the community growth to more than 200k ppl and it's impossible to continue with that "famliy" atmosphere of the good old Eve. If I slip into the pessimism, I'd say that it's because CCP wants to simply increase the $$$ influx either by encouraging alt play, not doing a thing against sweatshop farmers or trying to attract general MMO audience instead of the niche audience. Which is true - I don't know.
|
Greme
Amarr
Slacker Industries
Cult of War
|
Posted - 2007.12.13 16:02:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Futher Bezluden
Anyone remember long, long ago when CCP actually seemed to listen to player suggestions and recommendations, when they would post up potential changes with explanations behind what they were doing, or when they put something in then realized it was a really bad idea and rolled back the change?
Anyone remember long, long ago when the EVE community listened to what the Devs were actually saying and didn't mindlessly whine at every single aspect?
|
HydroSan
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2007.12.13 16:21:00 -
[58]
Edited by: HydroSan on 13/12/2007 16:22:29
My biggest concern isn't that they're changing things, it's that they're ramming through massive, sweeping changes all at once and not letting anyone know what their 'intent' is until a week before it goes live, and basically ignoring suggestions. "But CCP, there aren't any replacements for carrier logistics yet! What should we do?!" "CARRIERS != HAULERS, DEAL WITH IT." ARM scripts which have made every battleship sniper outclassed by the Rokh (Rokh tracks and does better damage than the Mega now, at better range). The Arazu and Lachesis entirely screwed over while Caldari ECM is once again king of the EW hill. Nerfing the already fragile and easy-to-kill interdictors for apparently no reason.
Then there's stuff where it's like they don't even know what they're doing. Carriers were first nerfed by castrating their fighters, but then they decided the combat capabilities of carriers were fine and castrated the logistical capabilities. Then they say something about 'reconfiguring a carrier for logistics' and that gets everyone excited but then go "**** it" and nerf carriers anyways, not to mention the proposed and implemented 'alternative' costing up to SIX BILLION ISK to produce just in materials, not including time spent, logistics costs, etc. How do they expect smaller alliances to cope with that? It's short sighted. And back on the subject of carriers, CCP has said they're going to "look into" fighters while probably means another heavy-handed nerf and probably the coup de grace on the carrier class as a whole, because one or two ******s get ganked in lowsec by a gatecamping carrier which therefore makes carriers "solo PvP pwnmobiles" despite the fact I've killed carriers in groups of seven or eight battleships.
Yeah I'm a carrier pilot and I'm bitter.
|
Pitt Bull
Caldari Naval Reserve
|
Posted - 2007.12.13 16:24:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Talos Darkhart
Eve is dead and has been for about a year what we are playing now is some semi aborted sequal designed to milk as much cash as they can before world of darkness is released.
This quote speaks truth.
|
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Enuma Elish.
|
Posted - 2007.12.13 16:46:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Snake Doctor
I've given up hope.
The new changes suck. The game isn't really fun for me anymore.
I'm not leaving, just not inclined to spend what limited time available to play Eve.
I've put the Rifter Manual on hold, haven't been able to do any MacroIntel stuff, no new art. Nothing.
I just fell out of love with the game. The new graphics aren't a big deal. I was happy with the old ones. There are some serious bugs and playability issues that need to be addressed, but never will be.
CCP, please stop doing what you're doing before you end up with Star Wars Galaxies.
Stop "improving" the game. All you're doing is breaking our addictions.
Oddly enough, I don't actually care all that much about game changes. I quite enjoy EVE for the sake of the community, and ... well, y'know, new stuff is nice, and if something gets changed for balance reasons... so what? Figuring out a new solution to a problem is interesting.
My major reason that EVE occasionally feels like it's 'going a bit wrong' (not that i'm in any danger of leaving any time soon) is the incipient souring of the community spirit.
Thankfully, I know some other examples of communities within EVE, who serve to prove to me that it's a very definite vocal minority.
--
Crane needs more grid
249km locking?
GMP and TNP |
Malcanis
High4Life
SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.12.13 17:22:00 -
[61]
Originally by: HydroSan
Edited by: HydroSan on 13/12/2007 16:22:29
My biggest concern isn't that they're changing things, it's that they're ramming through massive, sweeping changes all at once and not letting anyone know what their 'intent' is until a week before it goes live, and basically ignoring suggestions. "But CCP, there aren't any replacements for carrier logistics yet! What should we do?!" "CARRIERS != HAULERS, DEAL WITH IT." ARM scripts which have made every battleship sniper outclassed by the Rokh (Rokh tracks and does better damage than the Mega now, at better range). The Arazu and Lachesis entirely screwed over while Caldari ECM is once again king of the EW hill. Nerfing the already fragile and easy-to-kill interdictors for apparently no reason.
Then there's stuff where it's like they don't even know what they're doing. Carriers were first nerfed by castrating their fighters, but then they decided the combat capabilities of carriers were fine and castrated the logistical capabilities. Then they say something about 'reconfiguring a carrier for logistics' and that gets everyone excited but then go "**** it" and nerf carriers anyways, not to mention the proposed and implemented 'alternative' costing up to SIX BILLION ISK to produce just in materials, not including time spent, logistics costs, etc. How do they expect smaller alliances to cope with that? It's short sighted. And back on the subject of carriers, CCP has said they're going to "look into" fighters while probably means another heavy-handed nerf and probably the coup de grace on the carrier class as a whole, because one or two ******s get ganked in lowsec by a gatecamping carrier which therefore makes carriers "solo PvP pwnmobiles" despite the fact I've killed carriers in groups of seven or eight battleships.
Yeah I'm a carrier pilot and I'm bitter.
At least your whine has some facts and information in it, I suppose.
I'm not really qualified to have an opinion on carriers. But it does seem odd to complain that a battleship with bonuses focused on range is better at sniping than battleships with bonuses focused on damage and tracking though.
But it seems that your major complaint is the CCP aren't communicating their intentions for game direction. Well, fair point, and I agree. I myself am somewhat puzzled by the need to make my poor Flycatchers even slower, and I'd very much like to have the reasoning explained to me. But consider the point made in this thread by myself and others: they don't WANT to talk to us because so many people act like spoiled brats with no manners who deserve, rather than Dev communication, a slap and being sent to bed without dinner. When the Devs do attempt to communicate with us, they're met with a hailstorm of abuse. Some incentive! You're in Goonswarm, I note, and therefore I will assume that you're well aware of the ability of forum postings to irritate, exasperate or outright enrage. I will say nothing of you personally, but you must concede that many of your alliance mates do little to improve the situation (to say the least).
If you have a point to make, make it in a measured, respectful, coherent fashion, in a structured post that provides correct information and ideally suggests a solution or an alternative. Respect breeds respect. Consideration will be met with consideration. And remember that everyone who posts without respect or consideration is also being disrespectful and inconsiderate to you for this reason. Everyone that is rude and aggressive and selfish colours the Devs' opinion of the playerbase as a whole, including you.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Futher Bezluden
Minmatar
ORIGIN SYSTEMS
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.12.13 17:37:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Vitrael
I'm curious, OP, how the Tempest got "nerfed" in Trinity?
I just saw the nerf brand gun and it screamed "I AM TEMPEST". couldn't help making the sig then. if it had looked more myrm-ish it'd read "WTF happened to my Myrmidon". lol.
THUKKER -Be Paranoid
Skeet Skeet L33t |
HydroSan
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2007.12.13 18:46:00 -
[63]
Edited by: HydroSan on 13/12/2007 18:49:08
Edited by: HydroSan on 13/12/2007 18:48:18
Originally by: Malcanis
At least your whine has some facts and information in it, I suppose.
I'm not really qualified to have an opinion on carriers. But it does seem odd to complain that a battleship with bonuses focused on range is better at sniping than battleships with bonuses focused on damage and tracking though.
But it seems that your major complaint is the CCP aren't communicating their intentions for game direction. Well, fair point, and I agree. I myself am somewhat puzzled by the need to make my poor Flycatchers even slower, and I'd very much like to have the reasoning explained to me. But consider the point made in this thread by myself and others: they don't WANT to talk to us because so many people act like spoiled brats with no manners who deserve, rather than Dev communication, a slap and being sent to bed without dinner. When the Devs do attempt to communicate with us, they're met with a hailstorm of abuse. Some incentive! You're in Goonswarm, I note, and therefore I will assume that you're well aware of the ability of forum postings to irritate, exasperate or outright enrage. I will say nothing of you personally, but you must concede that many of your alliance mates do little to improve the situation (to say the least).
If you have a point to make, make it in a measured, respectful, coherent fashion, in a structured post that provides correct information and ideally suggests a solution or an alternative. Respect breeds respect. Consideration will be met with consideration. And remember that everyone who posts without respect or consideration is also being disrespectful and inconsiderate to you for this reason. Everyone that is rude and aggressive and selfish colours the Devs' opinion of the playerbase as a whole, including you.
Regarding carriers and jump freighters, we already made a lot of informative and well-written posts about logistics and the timesink that it is in the various carrier nerfing threads. CCP's response to all of our words was "CARRIER != COMBAT SHIP", and then later "CARRIER != HAULER." They tried to explain to us, a 0.0 group, about how carriers could kill entire fleets and haul billions of minerals while at the same time being able to enter a fight and we told them they had the wrong idea about a carriers capabilities: we were met with silence, and then the nerf we're currently experiencing on TQ.
Now people who relied on carrier logistics for production and importation are either selling their carrier for a Rorqual or Dreadnought and basically ignoring Jump Freighters. The people who can't afford to buy a dreadnought are just quitting the business all together. The part-time player who worked hard to get a carrier can't even move his small array of weapons from one point to another even with expanders fitted, because the module size increase. Carrier fighters are 20m a pop for drones that can get popped in about ten seconds flat by a single battlecruiser, and the hauling capabilities are what made the carrier worth while: if you lost a whole rack of fighters to a couple of battlecruisers, you could haul some stuff and make some money to lay down another ~200m for another rack. Now you can't do that.
edit: This is getting off topic and it's a bit of a rant, but I just want to know why CCP would nerf one ship into oblivion, and then introduce a substitute which costs far too much and is very poor at what it does: how does this enrich the game? Why haven't CCP listened to our suggestions, or at least acknowledged listening to our suggestions? Why don't they explain their methodology when it comes to these kind of harsh nerfs that screw over many people? And when they do explain it and it turns out to be patently false, why don't they listen to experienced people who have actually used the ship in a live environment and not on a spreadsheet or on SiSi?
|
Malcanis
High4Life
SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.12.13 19:00:00 -
[64]
If I were to speculate, I would guess that CCP have decided that it is too easy for alliances to maintain a hold over huge areas of 0.0 and that they want alliances to have a tighter hold over smaller areas, with large gaps in between.
I'm sure there were some well-written carefully argued carrier posts, but I'm afraid they were drowned in a tidal wave of abusive ranting. That's exactly the effect I'm talking about.
I could mention some counter-examples, by the way. For instance, my beloved Viator got a nice boost - possibly as a consequence of the huge Blockade Runner thread in S&M.
For every person that says "hey, nice DPS buff for my torps" I see 20 that are crying about the compensating range nerf. CCP can infer that every decision they make is violently opposed by 95% of the players, or they can simply assume that the forums are mostly composed of unrepresentative crybabies and pretty much ignore them.
In all honesty, which would you do?
Now in your list, there are something I agree with (especially since I fly AFs and interdictors!), some I don't and others i just don't know enough to have an opinion on.
I don't want your stuff, by the way. I have stuff of my own and it suffices for my modest needs. You may have noticed that I'm not one of those who reflexively implies that anyone not happy with the game should.
You say "Anyone remember long, long ago when CCP actually seemed to listen to player suggestions and recommendations... Anyone remember that CCP? Does it still exist?" Well I only started playing Sept 06, so perhaps hat was before my time. Can you remember anything different about the forums in this era of Dev responsiveness?
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Estephania
|
Posted - 2007.12.13 19:03:00 -
[65]
I tend to agree with HydroSan here. The whole line of thinking and the reasoning for Carrier changes and mineral compression problem evades me, and not me alone. CCP arguments on those are either flawed or outright false. I have yet to hear any reasonable explanations on those nerfs. This is actually what this thread about.
|
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Enuma Elish.
|
Posted - 2007.12.13 19:20:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Estephania
I tend to agree with HydroSan here. The whole line of thinking and the reasoning for Carrier changes and mineral compression problem evades me, and not me alone. CCP arguments on those are either flawed or outright false. I have yet to hear any reasonable explanations on those nerfs. This is actually what this thread about.
Do you really think it's worth them posting, when people such as yourself have already prejudged them as having 'no clue'.
I mean, seriously? Even if you're not convinced they're right, a little common courtesy goes a really long way.
--
Crane needs more grid
249km locking?
GMP and TNP |
Mazupty
|
Posted - 2007.12.13 19:20:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Mazupty on 13/12/2007 19:21:53
Originally by: Estephania
I tend to agree with HydroSan here. The whole line of thinking and the reasoning for Carrier changes and mineral compression problem evades me, and not me alone. CCP arguments on those are either flawed or outright false. I have yet to hear any reasonable explanations on those nerfs. This is actually what this thread about.
I think Malcanis hit the nail: prevent ppl from controlling too vast an area.
At least until that area is fully developped with outposts and jump bridges, adding a big ISK sink.
|
Estephania
|
Posted - 2007.12.13 19:33:00 -
[68]
The reasoning on Carriers was at first that Carriers are awesome pwnmobiles and should be nerfed (which is not true since Carriers were killed regularly even by small battleship packs), then that Carriers are not haulers (when the provided alternative costs something between a Dreadnought and a Mothership) So I've yet to hear what Carriers are for?
On mineral compression it was said that the volume changes reflect the amount of minerals that can be refined out of the module. This is not true as medium gun takes more space than large gun, while it is clear that it should be quite the opposite. CCP also haven't considered any other solution to that problem, which for some reason they think is gamebreaking, and just increased volume sizes across the board by some random coefficient.
|
Crux Australis
MotorSaikol LadrUNZ
Privateer Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.12.13 19:52:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Garia666
Ever since the Goons arrised, communicating on the forums has fallen from an mature degree to an inmature and childish smack fest.
Sorry about the selective quoting, but I think that you are wrong about this statement.
WaahaaaNerf****posting was running rampant through the forums (and I am not speaking about caod) well before the goons entered eve.
I for one dislike goons a lot (well actually more than 'a lot') but this kind of generalization is, imho, wrong.
|
HydroSan
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2007.12.13 22:28:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Malcanis
If I were to speculate, I would guess that CCP have decided that it is too easy for alliances to maintain a hold over huge areas of 0.0 and that they want alliances to have a tighter hold over smaller areas, with large gaps in between.
I'm sure there were some well-written carefully argued carrier posts, but I'm afraid they were drowned in a tidal wave of abusive ranting. That's exactly the effect I'm talking about.
Except this line of thinking is entirely wrong. Large alliances that hold a lot of space will be able to afford tools like Jump Freighters, Rorquals, and Titans: smaller alliances will not. With POS Jump Bridges around, holding large areas of space has become significantly easier as well.
All this does is hurt the little guy and give more power to the alliances that can already afford the tools because they established before the tools ended up costing an arm and a leg (jump freighters, Titans). An alliance like GoonSwarm, Band of Brothers, Red Alliance, RAZOR or other larger space-holding entities that have their own capital ship fleets will be able to afford the tools to continue to meet the current status quo. But what about the small 500-man corp who only has a couple of carriers and maybe one Rorqual? How does CCP expect them to survive in true 0.0?
|
McFly
Path of Light
R0ADKILL
|
Posted - 2007.12.14 05:56:00 -
[71]
Earlier it was mentioned that perhaps the goal is to prevent alliances from holding such large areas of 0.0 space. ISK sinks like JBs and etc... all good stuff here, but it conflicts a bit.
If CCP wants to nerf alliances to be smaller, which would make room for others in 0.0 and etc... then why did they setup the large upgrade to POS warfare. Sov levels are designed to fill up the space in between the alliances, right? I mean why else would you anchor towers in a system none of your pilots use, except to rat in.
So it begs the question do they want to raise 0.0 population and shrink alliance claims. or something else, it's becoming hazy. But i think CCP will still listen eventually. The game isn't ending no one's going anywhere.
This big community is probably just going to shrink a little and then hopefully we'll have a good old way of things like before.
--
--my opinions do not reflect that of my corp nor my alliance-- |
HydroSan
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2007.12.14 10:12:00 -
[72]
Originally by: McFly
This big community is probably just going to shrink a little and then hopefully we'll have a good old way of things like before.
This isn't anywhere near the direction CCP is taking the game but thanks for posting stuff like this anyways.
Or if by "good old ways" you meant "only the battle-hardened mega alliances controlling any space because they can afford the tools to run their empires while smaller alliances cant" then sure, I guess you'd be on the right track. But reducing sov claims? No way no how.
|
Mad Mackem
The Illuminati.
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2007.12.14 10:30:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Verone
Originally by: Futher Bezluden
Amarr ships generally being the least used due to problems the community has asked CCP to address for the past year: ignored but the T2 "caldarified" Amarr ships got buffed -just keep training and grinding for isk, you'll get T2 amarr missile ships without cap issues.
Amarr turret boats are fine. Been flying them for four years, there's no problem with them at all if you use your loaf when fitting them.
Come on V use your loaf, only us northern monkies know what you mean when you say "use your loaf"
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Terro Deagas
Woopatang
The Red Skull
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Posted - 2007.12.14 10:39:00 -
[74]
BOO CCP DIAF PLZKTX
Seriously though, get out of the forums and play the game, change playstyles, join a new corp, adapt, do something other than whine about how things were so much better 3 years ago. Yeah I only started mid-'06, so what does my opinion matter, but I still manage to have fun (almost) every time I log in.
As for the uselessness of AFs, I just had an exhilarating one-on-one the other night in my Wolf that stirred feelings I haven't felt since my first solo kill, so maybe get out there and try to experience EVE instead of staying in station and complaining on the boards
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Verlaine Glariant
Knights of the Flame
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.12.14 10:50:00 -
[75]
Evolve with the game. Or leave.
PD. If you leave, can I have your stuff?
Verlaine Glariant. Tactical Weapons Specialist.
AMPHYSVENA WEBSITE COMING SOON |
Estephania
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Posted - 2007.12.14 10:59:00 -
[76]
Of course Amarr boats are fine if you have 30mill skill point with amarr specializations. The problem is, you can do the same and better with half as many skillpoints with other races' ships.
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Minmatar Citizen 4521577
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Posted - 2007.12.14 12:03:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Estephania
Of course Amarr boats are fine if you have 30mill skill point with amarr specializations. The problem is, you can do the same and better with half as many skillpoints with other races' ships.
Same reads for minmatar. Except that some are not so fine. And that you need 40M.
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Minmatar Citizen 4521577
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Posted - 2007.12.14 12:08:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Estephania
The reasoning on Carriers was at first that Carriers are awesome pwnmobiles and should be nerfed (which is not true since Carriers were killed regularly even by small battleship packs), then that Carriers are not haulers (when the provided alternative costs something between a Dreadnought and a Mothership) So I've yet to hear what Carriers are for?
Actually I bet they had jump freighters in their plans for quite a while. Not because they had a role that needed filling, but because they were a natural evolution of T1 ones and CCP wants to introduce new toys from time to time.
So, given the uh shoehorned introduction of jump freighters, you have to make them useful somehow. And which better way than to nerf carrier haulage.
CCP gets to introduce more ships, roles are more distributed.
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Liam Liam
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Posted - 2007.12.14 13:12:00 -
[79]
yes and if they'd waited to nerf carriers till you could actually build a jump frieghter and maybe even waited a month or two after that to give people a chance to train to fly one there'd would be less people unhappy with the nerf.
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Mnengli Noiliffe
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Posted - 2007.12.14 13:40:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Hasak Rain
lol at this thread.
Nobody here has said anything that can't be read on any MMO message board in the world. I have played quite a few MMOs and it is always the same garbage over time.
""Company X" doesn't listen to us anymore....wah!"
Quite frankly, I am glad that CCP {or anyone else} doesn't listen to the same 50-100 Forum whiners and their alts. The game is much better of because of it.
you are correct - this seem to happen to all MMOs.
at first devs work for their customers to provide fun content so that players would feel themselves like something special and powerful.
then when mmo grows big and there is seemingly neverending flow of new customers, devs start to think that they are some kind of gods of the world-realm they have create in 7 days, or something.
and so they start to think like "gods", become arrogant and start to decide what is "fun" for their players and what is not, no matter what the customers are trying to tell them.
this period usually means that the mmo in question is nearing its end so be careful with this attitude.
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Druadan
Gallente
Aristotle Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.12.14 14:03:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Druadan on 14/12/2007 14:04:27
This sky is falling *******s is... *******s. Quit injecting hyperbolae in a vain attempt to beef your argument up.
There are some serious problems with CCP, but when you say EVE is dying, what you mean is your playing experience is being harmed by a change. While that's serious, for an individual player, it is not indicative of the end of EVE.
The changes in Trinity that were recieved as abhorrent were the carrier cargo nerf and the wholesale introduction of these scripts. I think we all understood the need for making damps script-based, but there wasn't any need to take that idea and smash it into every other damn thing. Putting those scripts in sensor boosters made any sniper but the Rokh useless, and indicated that the dampeners weren't over powered in the first place, if you need to nerf their counter equally. As for the carrier logistics nerf, there were pages and pages of constructive arguments in opposition to the illogical, un-EVE cutting away of an entire role, which would have been better implemented by simply reducing effectiveness. All the playerbase got was a ''keep talking, we're listening'', except for when Eris Discordia came into the Five Fighters thread and insulted us all.
I don't think EVE is dying, so much, but it was pretty worrying reading the pontifications of Ganglieri, Nozh, and Zulupark, (Ganglieri especially, who seems totally disconnected from the game at large) and there were some real facepalm moments there, such as when the conversation turned to how useless 0.0 is, with the comparatively low ISK-making opportunities and removal of static complexes. One player put it like this, "The only reason for 0.0 aggression is to **** in other people's cornflakes" (paraphrased), to which one of the devs responded, "Is that something you think we should change?" I mean, seriously?
Bring back Tuxford and Oveur. They knew the score. These guys don't even know where the scoreboard is.
-Dru
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Neena Valdi
Art of War
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Posted - 2007.12.14 14:10:00 -
[82]
The only what 'today' CCP care about is to how earn more and more "real life ISK". Shame... least to say.
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