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Futher Bezluden Minmatar ORIGIN SYSTEMS Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.13 02:46:00 - [1] Anyone remember long, long ago when CCP actually seemed to listen to player suggestions and recommendations, when they would post up potential changes with explanations behind what they were doing, or when they put something in then realized it was a really bad idea and rolled back the change? Anyone remember that CCP? Does it still exist? The entire Trinity release is filled with things created privately behind closed doors without any player input (other than complaints on the forums being ignored after players tested it on SISI) and put right into the game despite having not given any explanation as to why such changes were made. Moreso, no explanation of the rational behind leaving certain things alone. Myrm and Eos: explanation given ARM Script Addition: no explanation given, no other options that were tested shown. Sweeping Interdictor Changes: none given but poly/odj setups remain untouched. Cargo in ships not allowed in carriers/rorquals: no other reason than to force invention of 8 billion isk jump freighters -no delay period for alliances to attempt jump freighter invention and get them fielded. Community call to change polycarb/odj packed ships: ignored, ccp must love eve being nothing but nanogangs and blobs. Community call to limit Damps/TD's to their respective ewar ships: ARM Script added, they are just as useful as before on non-ewar ships due to the modules that counter them being scripted too. Amarr ships generally being the least used due to problems the community has asked CCP to address for the past year: ignored but the T2 "caldarified" Amarr ships got buffed -just keep training and grinding for isk, you'll get T2 amarr missile ships without cap issues. Uselessness of the AF: tons of ideas put up by community, AF unchanged. Yeah, I'm being a grumpy old ** and misery loves company. Sound off about other things CCP changed without explanation or completely ignored. Don't bother asking for stuff, I've already given it away. THUKKER -Be Paranoid Skeet** Skeet L33t
TardRusher RennTech SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.13 03:00:00 - [2] Just give up. They don't give a **** anymore. Common sense doesn't apply to MMO's.
Alski Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.13 03:08:00 - [3] I just wish they’d tell us about all the changes they are planning on making before the changes actually hit the test server, so that we can pick apart the pros/cons and hopefully expose huge flaws in concept before any coding is done. Actually, what would be better is if the devs could tell us WHY they are looking at changing something, recent example: carrier logistics change, prompted a threadnaught and forum spam of epic proportions full of people saying it was going to make 0.0 logistics way harder and more time consuming, followed by CCP basicley waiting till the last moment then whispering quietly "yeah we know, that was our intention" Big changes in module/ship/game mechanics/balance should be preceded by the devs telling us what they are planning on doing and why, the why is probably more important than the what, because sometimes its almost impossible to see what it is they are trying to accomplish, not flameing, just saying - (combat) Patch belonging to CCP hits your drones, wrecking their liberty and freedom.
Yohanes Flame Point-Zero SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.13 03:29:00 - [4] The only thing the community wants is information. If something is changing and we do not have any say in it CCP should just say so. With a why.
Erotic Irony 0bsession	Posted - 2007.12.13 03:58:00 - [5] Originally by: Futher Bezluden Anyone remember long, long ago when CCP actually seemed to listen to player suggestions and recommendations, when they would post up potential changes with explanations behind what they were doing, or when they put something in then realized it was a really bad idea and rolled back the change? Anyone remember that CCP? Does it still exist? The entire Trinity release is filled with things created privately behind closed doors without any player input (other than complaints on the forums being ignored after players tested it on SISI) and put right into the game despite having not given any explanation as to why such changes were made. Moreso, no explanation of the rational behind leaving certain things alone. Myrm and Eos: explanation given ARM Script Addition: no explanation given, no other options that were tested shown. Sweeping Interdictor Changes: none given but poly/odj setups remain untouched. Cargo in ships not allowed in carriers/rorquals: no other reason than to force invention of 8 billion isk jump freighters -no delay period for alliances to attempt jump freighter invention and get them fielded. Community call to change polycarb/odj packed ships: ignored, ccp must love eve being nothing but nanogangs and blobs. Community call to limit Damps/TD's to their respective ewar ships: ARM Script added, they are just as useful as before on non-ewar ships due to the modules that counter them being scripted too. Amarr ships generally being the least used due to problems the community has asked CCP to address for the past year: ignored but the T2 "caldarified" Amarr ships got buffed -just keep training and grinding for isk, you'll get T2 amarr missile ships without cap issues. Uselessness of the AF: tons of ideas put up by community, AF unchanged. Yeah, I'm being a grumpy old **** and misery loves company. Sound off about other things CCP changed without explanation or completely ignored. Don't bother asking for stuff, I've already given it away. get used to the changes, stop ranting ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2007.12.13 04:08:00 - [6] Can I have your stuff? ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in ~~pink~~ Forum Warfare
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.13 04:14:00 - [7] Originally by: Futher Bezluden The entire Trinity release is filled with things created privately behind closed doors without any player input (other than complaints on the forums being ignored after players tested it on SISI) and put right into the game despite having not given any explanation as to why such changes were made. Explanations were given right here on the forums for most changes. I remember them. You just seem to have missed them. And to be honest, I personally find the opinions of a lot of people on these forums rather ****ty, and shudder at the thought of CCP listening to them. (Unfortuantely it still happens as we saw with the massive nerbat swing to sensor dampeners after all the whining.)
Futher Bezluden Minmatar ORIGIN SYSTEMS Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.13 06:19:00 - [8] Originally by: Hannobaal Originally by: Futher Bezluden The entire Trinity release is filled with things created privately behind closed doors without any player input (other than complaints on the forums being ignored after players tested it on SISI) and put right into the game despite having not given any explanation as to why such changes were made. Explanations were given right here on the forums for most changes. I remember them. You just seem to have missed them. And to be honest, I personally find the opinions of a lot of people on these forums rather **ty, and shudder at the thought of CCP listening to them. (Unfortuantely it still happens as we saw with the massive nerbat swing to sensor dampeners after all the whining.) Is that lipstick or koolaid stains? Yup, you drank the koolaid. Massive nerfbat... lolz. Balance would be Damp/TD with 60-70% affect only if you have the racially appropriate ewar ship and all other ships getting 10% and losing a lot of cap for their efforts not almost 50-55% STR (scripted) with a single rig on a non-ewar ship. THUKKER -Be Paranoid Skeet** Skeet L33t
Soulita Gallente Inner Core	Posted - 2007.12.13 06:28:00 - [9] Originally by: Tarminic Can I have your stuff? Tarmac, you always ask for peeps stuff - must have a lot by now, do you? Now give it all to me. I want all your stuff. NOW! On topic - lots of players playing EVE nowadays, many more than when I started. The more players we have, the more difficult it becomes for CCP to do interactive development.
Kata Dakini An Eye For An Eye Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.12.13 06:38:00 - [10] Personally, I like the carrier/logistics changes. Carriers (while aptly named for the task) shouldn't be for hauling. As for AFs, they have a role, they just aren't used that way because people don't find usefulness in things unless it's bigger better faster more. I honestly don't have a problem with any changes that have been made to Eve over the years. Eve has (and likely always will be) a one dimensional/flavor of the month game. If I were a dev, that would drive me nuts. Where are logistics ships in practice? Where are destroyers? Who uses BCs for their intended role? So much of Eve is untouched it's silly. For more enjoyment and greater efficiency, consumption is being standardized.
Mnengli Noiliffe	Posted - 2007.12.13 06:46:00 - [11] they just need to fire nozh and fendahl and bring Tuxford back.
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2007.12.13 07:08:00 - [12] Of course they give a reason for ALL the changes: balance. They want to balance out things. But that explanation is as good as no explanation at all and only empty words. CCP must be careful that they got not blinded by their vision of Eve! It is good and nice to have some grand vision and how it would be great. But actually with 200k people now playing Eve maybe they should be a bit more open minded about their vision and adjust it to other peoples (the players) vision as well. It is a lot to ask, surely. They did and do all the work through the long years in countless hours. But still, some more discussion about the direction of Eve might be nice (otherwise all the talk about Eve becomming more than just a game, that it became almost something alife is quite hollow talk). At the moment it is just that CCP sees its vision of Eve and is going to implement. If the players moan and dislike changes it is answered with 'it is because of the greater good for Eve' to 'balance it'. At best there are small changes or some delay in the implementation but no fundamental discussion happens. No discussion about the direction. I am quite sure that CCP would find a lot of ideas and creativity amongst the players! They only need to ask!
Vitrael Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.12.13 07:09:00 - [13] I'm curious, OP, how the Tempest got "nerfed" in Trinity?
Karyuudo Tydraad Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services The Acquisition	Posted - 2007.12.13 07:23:00 - [14] I've seen a lot of those explanations that you list as missing stated by devs in forum posts, if not in dev blogs.
Gripen Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.12.13 07:36:00 - [15] May be it's because CCP grew bigger? In the beginning there was only TomB who was behind all the game balance changes but now they probably have a sizable team in content development and design which is like a focus group on community itself. Every of them have it's own preferred race and play style so they are just consult with each other and don't need our opinion anymore.
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2007.12.13 07:55:00 - [16] I do believe there were two main turning points for CCP, One was when they realised they has the cash to buy White Wolf, that was pretty big and changed their attitude from nice and pleasant to arrogant and unpleasant. Then the next change was when they realised they could make another MMO and are in the works of creating it now, You know who cares about a few hundred thousand players when you can make a fantasy mmo based off white wolfs plethora of RPG's and will get millions of players. So yes I can understand their attitude, its the very definition of greed, desire and all thats unpleasant in the world, and CCP's heading down that road right now, EvE will do as a cash cow, they will kill it eventually as the effort required to maintain such a good intelligent mmo and please the moderately intelligent player base is just not worth it, especially when you can crease an MMO fantasy that has a vast majority of its player base still yet to hit puberty. They are stupid and naive and are easy to keep quiet. So the perfect cash cows. ôMoney is the root of all evil, and yet it is such a useful root that we cannot get on without it any more than we can without potatoes.ö Louisa May Alcott So instead of throwing money at CCP, perhaps its time we threw potatoes at them.
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.13 07:58:00 - [17] Originally by: Kata Dakini Where are logistics ships in practice? In many places. Two Guardians (or Basilisks, but not quite as much since more people tank armor) working together are awesome at keeping a small gang alive in battle. Nearly to the point of being overpowered.
Ghyran	Posted - 2007.12.13 08:10:00 - [18] I think CCP are tending to operate more towards telling us what we want instead of listening to what we want.
Gone'Postal Minmatar Vengeance 8 Interceptors	Posted - 2007.12.13 08:49:00 - [19] The OLD CCP were much better, Personal I think they have just picked up on the fact that, they don't have to listen to a single idea the playerbase has. Eve is growing and with that, so what if they anger 50 or 100 players and they head for other games, whats that when there is nothing atm released that can counter CCP's single shard MMO space shooter? All credit where it's due, CCP found a hole in teh gamers market and made something to fill it, and like most things, the die hard players will get shafted for the sake of more players. Originally by: Tarminic You honestly paid a hundred dollars to someone to fix this? Unless they gave you a blowjob for free afterwards, it wasn't worth it.
DJ P	Posted - 2007.12.13 09:02:00 - [20] Guys, CCP hear the player base. If some people don't like some changes is their problem. Other companies don't even ask your opinion or talk to you like CCP. And you have to pay for those changes either way. EVE today is way better than was back in 2004 I started. There are more things to do, more opportunities and better character specialization. Regarding the Industrials/Carrier issue (because that's what most of the people complain about). I must say that a lot of people found it from the start bit odd and unrealistic. Because something is convenient, doesn't mean is good for the game.
Estephania	Posted - 2007.12.13 09:21:00 - [21] CCP went all the way from a small bunch of guys who wanted to create a special MMO and fill a niche in on-line gaming to a full blown corporation where the vision is secondary and subs graph is a primary concern. It is not as bad as with SOE or Blizzard, but it's not the old good CCP any more.
Gojyu Ever Flow Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.12.13 09:22:00 - [22] Carrier nerf was repealed, as were a couple of others during rev II. Explanations were given and debate was held on all of the issues you list. If you didn't care enough before the expansion to look at these changes and read the discussions on them you do not deserve to be able to create a thread on them now Now accepting signature commissions, contact me in-game for pricing
Hasak Rain Amarr	Posted - 2007.12.13 09:55:00 - [23] lol at this thread. Nobody here has said anything that can't be read on any MMO message board in the world. I have played quite a few MMOs and it is always the same garbage over time. ""Company X" doesn't listen to us anymore....wah!" Quite frankly, I am glad that CCP {or anyone else} doesn't listen to the same 50-100 Forum whiners and their alts. The game is much better of because of it.
Gaven Blands	Posted - 2007.12.13 10:02:00 - [24] But we have nice graphics now. And everybody knows that as long as it looks nice, and no attempt is made to make it play nice, it will be a winning product that will stand the test of time. Dispensing with the sarcasm in five, four, three, two.... one. -- Awwwww Diddums! Did I wardec your highsec alt recently or something?
Xtreem Gallente Knockaround Guys Inc. Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.13 10:37:00 - [25] i must admit i am starting to lose the love for eve. :( been playing for over 4 years, with only one break which was forced due to moving and no internet connection. i get things are changed and balenced as they see fit, but i am feeling things are getting nerfed without reason after years of being just fine! thats the thing i really don't get, ok so a new ship comes out, they feel its slightly too powerful and change it, thats fine i can live with that, but changing things after say 3/4 years!!?? makes me sad. though being a forum *****, i'm a member of several gaming forums, and other general forums and found several long term eve;ers on these sites, and unfortunatly this view is shared by these people and it is more known amoung the vets, to be given an easier time for the new players.
Xtro 2 Caldari Pre-nerfed Tactics SOUL CARTEL	Posted - 2007.12.13 10:56:00 - [26] Edited by: Xtro 2 on 13/12/2007 10:57:29 ive lost interest, mostly due to the lack of real new content, for me new shiny ships dont really do much for me, we need new things to do, like planetary flight/fights (which they had a rolling demoo of a while back and it looked sweet), add pos-alike resource structures on the planets themselves. Have destroyed ships in planet atmospheres produce no can, instead they get sucked down to the planet surface, where someone can use their archaeology skills to try and salvage some of the parts. I dont really care whats added tbh as long as its not ship after ship after ship, it lost its novelty value quite some time ago. Eve players always makes the claim that eve is a harsh sandbox, tbh thats rubbish, its become a fluffy carebear land to suit the paying majority, fluffy eve gamer. currently hibernating each of my accounts slowly atm, and might leave just the 1 active. (maybe). Xtro 2 - Tactically Insane Tradesman. Insanity, or madness, is a semi-permanent, severe mental disorder.
Krxon Blade	Posted - 2007.12.13 11:03:00 - [27] Originally by: Ghyran I think CCP are tending to operate more towards telling us what we want instead of listening to what we want. If you have everything you want life suddenly became boring :) -- EVE offline game
McFly Path of Light R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.12.13 11:24:00 - [28] eve is on a wierd path, i just hope that someone at ccp realizes it and pulls it back on track with the good old days. -- --my opinions do not reflect that of my corp nor my alliance--
UGWidowmaker Caldari Setenta Corp	Posted - 2007.12.13 11:35:00 - [29] well i think ccp listens to the players, i know for afact that i asked for 1: some pos beacon where u could jump cap ships too. 2: archeoligy skills or how u spell it always forget. both are now ingame.. im not saying thats its my credit they are, but i asked about this maybe 2 years ago and w00p ingame they are. i do agree on nerfin thou.. heck look at the amarr its ******.. OMFG I am the widowmaker stay tuned.
Talos Darkhart	Posted - 2007.12.13 12:19:00 - [30] Meh CCP have been slowly turning them selves into soe mk2 for awhile now it's been a long time since they cared about anything except the ISK. You only have to look at a couple of threads that had less the glowing opinons on changes to the game over the last few years to see ccp say somthing along the lines of "well yeah change X was not handled well and 10k of ppl quit BUT we got 12k of new subs so who gives a flying Fú$%" After I saw a better spun version of that statement from wangler I knew it was time to get ready to bail. Eve is dead and has been for about a year what we are playing now is some semi aborted sequal designed to milk as much cash as they can before world of darkness is released.

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