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Strill	Posted - 2008.08.09 23:07:00 - [421] Originally by: Lusulpher Edit: Is the Hyperion name correct as to naming convention? Yes. Hyperion is Greek.
Kethry Avenger Krell-Korp	Posted - 2008.08.10 21:12:00 - [422] Yep still dreaming of a Khanid Battleship with at least the equivalent of 6 launcher hard points, and a good armor tank.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.11 06:37:00 - [423] I present the with the Oblivion Its all shiny and BLACK! I would love to see the Khanid scroll work on the side of an Abaddon, almost as much as I would love to see the deep gold and red accents for a Carthum based Abaddon. Though its all up to CCP at this point as to weather there will ever be ships like that.
Pheleus Federation of Freedom Fighters	Posted - 2008.08.11 09:33:00 - [424] Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Information Warfare Link III Logi 4 would seem to fit better unless you change the HAC skill to 5 also seems unblanced to require an extra 30 (guess) days of training for the threater ship. Phel godo idea though like a mini titan :))
S'vart Tseirgn Caldari	Posted - 2008.08.11 09:57:00 - [425] Wow! Op - That's some impressive work! Very nice idea - I'd like to see this one implemented for sure...and as prev stated it would be a nice step between BS & Caps. Excellent work on the balancing btw
Grarr Dexx Amarr Avenging United	Posted - 2008.08.11 11:33:00 - [426] The oblivion seems rather limited, and as a slow abaddon hull would barely be able to make anything of it's bonused torps as it would never be able to get within that 55-65km range...
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.11 15:32:00 - [427] Okay logoistics 4 is a fair assertion for ballance in skilling. Ill have to change that. The limitations on the oblivion are to make sure to dose not beat out the Raven for king of large missile throwers. Granted it is a tech 2 ship and has a very good tank on it, but i don't want the Raven diven to uselessness. It is already under heave siege from Navy Issue Raven and the Golem. Plus Amarr are kings of lasers not missiles. I'm sure that this ships abilities would be shown if it gets implemented into the game. AS for the 54k range of torpedos and the lack of anything getting there. Remeber that torpedos are the close range weapons for missiles, they have the same range issues that blaster/pulse lasers/auto cannons have. And those weapons do fine in PvP and PvE.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.11 16:12:00 - [428] Considering that all the other Tech 2 ships have the resistance bonus fro being Tech 2 on both their shields and armor, im going to change the flagship to reflect that. Currently they only have either shields or armor. Also have to change the highest resistance because of the recent change to all ship resistances. As in the change from a 0/60/40/20 to a 0/50/40/20 for shields and similar for armor.
Kal Shanai	Posted - 2008.08.12 00:44:00 - [429] Fully support the idea, you've put in some real effort in thinking up these ships, and theyre worthy of being put into the game.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.12 15:53:00 - [430] AMARR Name: Requiem Hull: Abaddon Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Carthum Conglomerate Carthum ships are the very embodiment of the Amarrian warfare philosophy. Possessing sturdy armor and advanced weapons systems, they provide a nice mix of offense and defense. On the other hand, their electronics and shield systems tend to be rather limited. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Energy Turret damage per level, 5% bonus armor Resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Capacitor Recharge Rate per level, 5% bonus to Large Energy Turret capacitor cost per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 20% bonus to Tracking Link and Tracking Computer effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 4 mid / 8 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 20700 CPU: 530 Hard points: 8 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 6850 Shield Resistances: 0/65/52.5/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 9000 Armor Resistances: 50/35/37.5/35 Hull HP: 8000 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 75m^3s Drone Bandwidth: 75 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6375 Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 80km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Radar 22 Signature Radius: 480m Scanner Resolution: 85 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Fusion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command I --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Amarr Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Amarr Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery IV --> Weapon Upgrade IV Name: Oblivion Hull: Abaddon Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Khanid Innovations In addition to robust electronics systems, the Khanid Kingdom's ships possess advanced armor alloys capable of withstanding a great deal of punishment. Generally eschewing the use of turrets, they tend to gear their vessels more towards close-range missile combat. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Torpedo velocity per level, 5% bonus to armor Resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Capacitor Recharge Rate per level, 3% bonus to effectiveness of Armored Warfare Links module per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 5 mid / 7 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 19500 CPU: 530 Hard points: 0 Turret/6 Launcher Shield HP: 7350 Shield Resistances: 0/65/52.5/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8400 Armor Resistances: 50/35/37.5/35 Hull HP: 8000 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3s Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6375 Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 80km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Radar 22 Signature Radius: 480m Scanner Resolution: 85 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Fusion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command I --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Amarr Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Amarr Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics IV -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Armored Warfare Link III
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.12 15:55:00 - [431] CALDARI Name: Bastion Hull: Rohk Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Ishukone Most of the recent designs off their assembly line have provided for a combination that the Ishukone name is becoming known for great long-range capabilities and shield systems unmatched anywhere else. Caldari Battleship Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range per level, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret damage per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 20% bonus to ECCM and Remote ECCM effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 14900 CPU: 750 Hard points: 7 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 9250 Shield Resistances: 0/50/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6750 Armor Resistances: 50/10/50/57.5 Hull HP: 7250 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command I --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Caldari Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Caldari Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery V --> Weapon Upgrade IV Name: Tsunami Hull: Rokh Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Kaalakiota As befits one of the largest weapons manufacturers in the known world, Kaalakiota's ships are very combat focused. Favoring the traditional Caldari combat strategy, they are designed around a substantial number of weapons systems, especially missile launchers. However, they have rather weak armor and structure, relying more on shields for protection. Cladari Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Missile Launcher explosion velocity per level, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Siege Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 7 mid / 5 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 13500 CPU: 750 Hard points: 0 Turret/6 Launcher Shield HP: 9250 Shield Resistances: 0/50/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6500 Armor Resistances: 50/10/50/57.5 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command I --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Caldari Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Caldari Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics IV -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Siege Warfare Link III
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.12 15:57:00 - [432] GALLENTE Name: Athena Hull: Hyperion Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Duvolle Labs Duvolle Labs manufactures sturdy ships with a good mix of offensive and defensive capabilities. Since the company is one of New Eden's foremost manufacturers of particle blasters, its ships tend to favor turrets and thus have somewhat higher power output than normal. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Hybrid Turrets damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Armor Hit Points per level, 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret falloff per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 15% bonus to Sensor Booster and Remote Sensor Booster effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 5 mid / 7 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 15650 CPU: 570 Hard points: 7 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 7000 Shield Resistances: 0/50/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8350 Armor Resistances: 50/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8900 Velocity: 130m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command I --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Gallente Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Gallente Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery V --> Weapon Upgrade IV Name: Artimus Hull: Hyperion Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: CreoDron As the largest drone developer and manufacturer in space, CreoDron has a vested interest in drone carriers. While sacrificing relatively little in the way of defensive capability, the Artimus can chew its way through surprisingly strong opponents - provided, of course, that the pilot uses top-of-the-line CreoDron drones. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 10% bonus to drone Hit Points and Damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Armor Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Information Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 14150 CPU: 570 Hard points: 5 Turret/2 Launcher Shield HP: 7000 Shield Resistances: 0/50/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8500 Armor Resistances: 50/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8750 Velocity: 130m/s Drone Bay: 175m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 125 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command I --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Gallente Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Gallente Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics IV -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Information Warfare Link III
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.12 15:58:00 - [433] MINMATAR Name: Firestorm Hull: Maelstrom Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Boundless Creations Boundless Creation's ships are based on the Brutor tribe's philosophy of warfare: simply fit as much firepower onto your ship as possible. Defense systems and electronics arrays therefore tend to take a back seat to sheer annihilative potential. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Projectile Turret damage per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Signature Radius reduction per level, 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret falloff per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 20% bonus to Target Painter effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 18700 CPU: 610 Hard points: 8 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 7650 Shield Resistances: 15/50/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8100 Armor Resistances: 75/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 115m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command I --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Minmatar Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Minmatar Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Electronics V -> Gunnery V --> Weapon Upgrade IV Name: Halberd Hull: Maelstrom Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Core Complexion Core Complexion's ships are unusual in that they favor electronics and defense over the "lots of guns" approach traditionally favored by the Minmatar. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Signature Radius reduction per level, 3% bonus to Skirmish Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 High / 7 Mid / 5 Low / 2 rig Power Grid: 18100 CPU: 610 Hard points: 5 Turret/2 Launcher Shield HP: 8300 Shield Resistances: 15/50/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 7350 Armor Resistances: 75/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7600 Velocity: 115m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command I --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Minmatar Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Minmatar Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics IV -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Skirmish Warfare Link III
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.12 16:09:00 - [434] Changes: The resistances for armor and shields have been fixed to make the ships more in line with other T2 ships. Minerva has its name changed back to Athena The resistances have been changed to reflect in game changes to base resistances for armor and shields. The Theater Command Ship has had its skill requirements reduced. It now requires Logistics IV instead of Logistics V Thanks for all the input guys. Hope to have more comments soon.
Somealt Ofmine	Posted - 2008.08.14 22:13:00 - [435] I could fly and build one of these on my main (and I'd love to) but totally imbalancing. The ships aren't really THAT overpowered, it's true, but if the materials ratio from tier 2 to tier 3 BS remained the same in the T2 variant, these guys would cost 1 - 1.2 billion a copy even after the price stablized a bit. A fleet of them would absolutely shred at T-1 BS fleet, and pretty much laugh at DDs. He with the most isk wins?
Jim Hazard	Posted - 2008.08.15 08:22:00 - [436] Originally by: Somealt Ofmine I could fly and build one of these on my main (and I'd love to) but totally imbalancing. The ships aren't really THAT overpowered, it's true, but if the materials ratio from tier 2 to tier 3 BS remained the same in the T2 variant, these guys would cost 1 - 1.2 billion a copy even after the price stablized a bit. A fleet of them would absolutely shred at T-1 BS fleet, and pretty much laugh at DDs. He with the most isk wins? If I take a fleet of T1 BS and put a fitting on each of those for a billion that fleet is gonna shred a T2 fitted BS fleet as well. Do we remove Officer / Faction stuff because of that?
Meuchelmorder C0LDFIRE	Posted - 2008.08.15 09:46:00 - [437] I would vote to increase requirements to Spaceship Command V and Advanced Spaceship Command 2 (to give players a reason to train adv spaceship command and get a bonus on something not quite a capital/freighter) I like Fleet Command 1, Warfare Link Spec IV is required for Command Ship. I would vote to Raise this to 5. You are giving caldari increases on shield amount per flagship level but gallente increases on armor when their links are information? Bad call. I think there needs to be an infowarfare bonus for gallente ships. Amarr should provide Armor amount bonuses. Might make the Amarr version the one to have ;-) IMO bonuses should be based on the command links the ships are specialized for. they are after all 'command ships.' That being said, I like the cap recharge time on amarr. and that alone would mean amarr would always lead the fleet. If you think all of those other bonuses would boost tank performance, imagine increased shield rep! Can you say triple rep BS? thanks for your time. Originally by: Zhulik I thought Premium graphics were supposed to fix that bug where people were trying to salvage Minmatar ships.
Somealt Ofmine	Posted - 2008.08.15 12:35:00 - [438] Edited by: Somealt Ofmine on 15/08/2008 12:39:31 Edited by: Somealt Ofmine on 15/08/2008 12:36:23 Originally by: Jim Hazard Originally by: Somealt Ofmine I could fly and build one of these on my main (and I'd love to) but totally imbalancing. The ships aren't really THAT overpowered, it's true, but if the materials ratio from tier 2 to tier 3 BS remained the same in the T2 variant, these guys would cost 1 - 1.2 billion a copy even after the price stablized a bit. A fleet of them would absolutely shred at T-1 BS fleet, and pretty much laugh at DDs. He with the most isk wins? If I take a fleet of T1 BS and put a fitting on each of those for a billion that fleet is gonna shred a T2 fitted BS fleet as well. Do we remove Officer / Faction stuff because of that? I'm guessing you haven't officer/faction fit a ship in a while. Tell me how you'd spend a billion and be superior to one of these with a T2 fit. Not to meantion the fact that you can't really mass produce officer/faction mods and make them the new fleet standard for the wealthy. If you could, they wouldn't be nearly as expensive as they are now, and you might actually see fleets using them.
Jim Hazard	Posted - 2008.08.15 14:00:00 - [439] Originally by: Somealt Ofmine Edited by: Somealt Ofmine on 15/08/2008 12:39:31 Edited by: Somealt Ofmine on 15/08/2008 12:36:23 Originally by: Jim Hazard Originally by: Somealt Ofmine I could fly and build one of these on my main (and I'd love to) but totally imbalancing. The ships aren't really THAT overpowered, it's true, but if the materials ratio from tier 2 to tier 3 BS remained the same in the T2 variant, these guys would cost 1 - 1.2 billion a copy even after the price stablized a bit. A fleet of them would absolutely shred at T-1 BS fleet, and pretty much laugh at DDs. He with the most isk wins? If I take a fleet of T1 BS and put a fitting on each of those for a billion that fleet is gonna shred a T2 fitted BS fleet as well. Do we remove Officer / Faction stuff because of that? I'm guessing you haven't officer/faction fit a ship in a while. Tell me how you'd spend a billion and be superior to one of these with a T2 fit. Not to meantion the fact that you can't really mass produce officer/faction mods and make them the new fleet standard for the wealthy. If you could, they wouldn't be nearly as expensive as they are now, and you might actually see fleets using them. Well.. you do not need a complete faction fit to have a superior fleet. Also you do not need the absolutely best equipment. Just as little expample Fleet A and B Both have 50 Abaddons each. Fleet A is fitting 2 Corpum A-Type eans on each abaddon and 1 DCU II + 4 1600mm Plates +3x T1 Trimarks. Each of those has 315k EHP. Fleet B is fitting T2 EANS Instead. Each of those has 250k EHP. (Both fleets with gang Bonus and no implants). Which fleet is going to win? Of course Fleet A because in Fleet A each ship has a lot more hitpoints. Also fleet A can use remote repair tactics with a much higher efficiancy because of a quite big difference in resistances. Fleet A: 85,7% EM 81,5% Therm 78,6% Kin 77,2% Exp Fleet B: 81,3% EM 75,7% Therm 71,9% Kin 70,1% Exp This would be a price difference of arround 1 Billion per ship (yes i know its a little bit more, but 200 million more or less do not really matter there in the end). And it makes quite a difference.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.15 15:02:00 - [440] Okay I have given a lot of thought to the possibility of putting Advanced Spaceship Command on these ships as a requirement. Requiring one or two levels would not add much to the total training time of the ships. The reason I have not done so is because that these ships were, at one point, aproaching 6 months of decicated training time. I would like to refine the training list a little bit more before I start adding in skills again. The reason for the fleet bonuses being the way they are, as in Amarr getting better cap recharge and so on, is because they were lifted directly from the Titans of each race. They are significantly less powerful then the versions on the Titans though. As for the ships laughing at a Titan's Doomsday Device? I would like to point out that a DD has a hard time dropping almost any Battleship is one hit. There are even some Battlecruisers that laugh at the DD. So as far as imbalance there I'm not sure I see what you are talking about. The bonuses on the ships as they are now are good for making the ships more survivable, along with the fleet surrounding them. Gallente have one of the ships that gives a bonus to Information Warfare links in the designs. The cost for construction on these ships is subject more towards market influences then anything els. I would like to note that the starting prices of Marauders and Black-Ops ships was hovering around a billion isk when they were fist released. I'm not saying that these ships are going to be cheep. That is part of the restriction on that ship. It is a way to prevent the ships from becomming too numerous too fast. Assuming that a group managed to get a fleet of these ships together, it would be rather easy and cheap to take them down. For every fitted Flagship, you could go on the market and buy and fit two to three Megathrons or some similar such ship. At that rate you are going to be outnumbering the flagships three to one and in this case the bigger blob wins. Not to mention the fact that with a fleet made up inly of Flagships they would be unable to effectively jam or tackle any ships that might come along. So if a iwas the fleet commander I would take maybe one of each race and call it a day with those class ships. And thats only if I was commanding a very large fleet that had at least 4 squads.
Kethry Avenger Krell-Korp	Posted - 2008.08.15 20:18:00 - [441] I disagree with adding advanced spaceship command, why would you train a skill on a ship that has no effect on it. ASC is for capital ships.
Jim Hazard	Posted - 2008.08.16 01:22:00 - [442] Originally by: Kethry Avenger I disagree with adding advanced spaceship command, why would you train a skill on a ship that has no effect on it. ASC is for capital ships. The advanced operation of spaceships. Grants a 5% Bonus per skill level to the agility of ships requiring Advanced Spaceship Command. Cannot be trained on Trial Accounts. Just because this only is the case for Caps so far, it does not mean it could not be applied to other ships as well.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.16 02:43:00 - [443] Several issues with giving these ships the access to the bonus from that skill is trying to deal with the effects of having a rely fast turning ship. One could make it less maneuverable to compensate for it but in all honesty i think thats a bit more complexity then is needed.
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2008.08.16 04:24:00 - [444] Hey mr Balor mind looking at my tenderships and weigh your opinion in if you got the time? New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister
Kethry Avenger Krell-Korp	Posted - 2008.08.16 05:15:00 - [445] Originally by: Jim Hazard The advanced operation of spaceships. Grants a 5% Bonus per skill level to the agility of ships requiring Advanced Spaceship Command. Cannot be trained on Trial Accounts. Just because this only is the case for Caps so far, it does not mean it could not be applied to other ships as well. Good point but I still disagree for adding any more skills to this, I think the BS 5 and level 4 command ship are well in line with requirements at this level. No need to add another x days to it just cause.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.16 19:54:00 - [446] Im going to use EVE MON to figure out the skilling times for most of the ships. That way I can show everyone how long from start to finish it will take.
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2008.08.16 23:52:00 - [447] Have you thought of your ship being used for roles other than fleet leadership? for example does this ship's performance able to rival faction battleships or the muraders? Also any backup alternative plans for the capture timers suggested for the 0.0 soverinty (the ones currently used in FW) New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.17 01:07:00 - [448] A lot of the timers and changes to soverinty is going to depend on what is implemented and how it is implemented. I'm not going to speculate on how this ship might change as a result of mechanics that are not in game yet. Yes I have done a lot of though to the Flagships being used in roles other then what they are intended for. They would make rather nice mission ships, however they are easily out DPSed by the Marauders and the standard tier 3 battleships. Their only advantage in missions is a more durable tank then both the Marauders and the standard Battleships. They would make rather poor solo PvP ships in the current version of EVE. They are rather slow and are far more expensive then the standard battleships which would do the job the same if not better. Honestly, the ships really do not have a chance to shine unless they are in a gang and assigned as the fleet bonus ship. If they are not then they become rather mundane in their ability to throw damage. For the price I would rather take an Abaddon out solo and lose it rather then a Requiem or Oblivion out and lose it. If I had a fleet around me then the choice changes a lot. A for non standard fit for the ships (Ships like the NosDom or the like style of fitting) I'm not sure I can predict what people will do with these ships to that level. I would fly a Requiem into a mission, but thats because I am not a fan of the Apocolypse/Paladin's look. I think the Abaddon is a much better looking hull and if I'm going to be staring at a ship for 3-5 hours at a time, mine as well be something I like looking at. The Paladin is far more effective at missioning then the Abaddon, that I have no doubt about. But again is more estetics then anything els. And before you ask i can and have flown both ships into L4s, the Paladin is better at the job.
Grarr Dexx Amarr Avenging United	Posted - 2008.08.17 12:07:00 - [449] Any ex-raven pilot is going to transcend into the Tsunami, as it takes the already existant missile skills, most of the caldari spaceship command skills and their shield skills. I'm just afraid the Oblivion will become an underpowered ship.
Dristra Amarr Shadows of the Dead Daisho Syndicate	Posted - 2008.08.17 14:27:00 - [450] To adress the many nay-sayers that claim flag ships will simply take over for other ship classes: Having a ship do a better job at something is just a logical step up in the tier based world of eve, look at the ship tiers, most of the time higher tier is simply better. Tech 2 ships are almost always better than their tech 1 counterpart in every aspect. And never forget cost vs effectivness. Support the introduction of well thought out Amarr solutions! I believe rats should avoid you if you have high standing with them.

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