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Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2007.12.13 21:54:00 - [1] This is a simple idea for a new class of Command ships based off of the Tier 3 battleship. Now before everyone freaks out and starts spaming me with how much it would do this or that, I'm just putting forth the idea, that is all. What purpose would it serve to gap? What niche would this ship fit in, why it would be simple, its a bigger version and slightly more survivable form of the basic command ship. What i was intending to do with it is make Battleships combat effective against other T2 ships like Heavy Assault Ships and Command Ships, but at the same time don't make them instant wind buttons for eve.
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2007.12.13 21:55:00 - [2] Flagship Flagships are designed for use in large fleet combat situations, Designed to be the central command vessel for entire fleets in a single system. They relay on their massive defenses to make sure that they stay in the fight and support the fleet for as long as possible. Ships of these types are expensive to field but give a fleet unprecedented tactical advantages. Not to mention superior firepower and combat capabilities.
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2007.12.13 21:56:00 - [3] AMARR Name: Requiem Hull: Abaddon Role: Fleet Command Ship Developer: Carthum Conglomerate Carthum ships are the very embodiment of the Amarrian warfare philosophy. Possessing sturdy armor and advanced weapons systems, they provide a nice mix of offense and defense. On the other hand, their electronics and shield systems tend to be rather limited. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Energy Turret damage per level, 5% bonus armor Resitances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% reduction in Large Energy Turret Capacitor cost per level, 5% bonus to Large Energy Turret rate of fire Command Ship Bonus: 99% reduction in cpu cost for warfare link moduels Fitting slots: 8/4/8/2 Power Grid: 2100 CPU: 560 Hardpoints: 8 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 6850 Shield Resitances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8750 Armor Resitances: 60/35/37.5/35 Hull HP: 8000 Velocity: 120m/s Drone Bay: 75m^3s Drone Bandwith: 75 Mgbits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capcity: 6375 Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec Name: Oblivion Hull: Abaddon Role: Fleet Command Ship Developer: Khanid Inovations In addition to robust electronics systems, the Khanid Kingdom's ships possess advanced armor alloys capable of withstanding a great deal of punishment. Generally eschewing the use of turrets, they tend to gear their vessels more towards close-range missile combat. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 10% bonus to Torpedo velocity per level, 5% bonus to armor Resitances per level Flagship Bonus: 10% bonus to armor hit points per level, 3% bonus to effectiveness of armored warfare links moduel per level Command Ship Bonus: 99% reduction in cpu cost for warfare link moduels, activate 3 warfare link moduels simultaniously Fitting slots: 8/5/7/2 Power Grid: 2100s CPU: 560s Hardpoints: 2 Turret/8 Launcher Shield HP: 7350s Shield Resitances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8150s Armor Resitances: 60/20/25/35s Hull HP: 8000 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3s Drone Bandwith: 100 Mgbits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capcity: 6375s Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2007.12.13 21:58:00 - [4] CALDARI Name: Tsuname Hull: Rokh Role: Fleet Command Ship Developer: Kaalakiota As befits one of the largest weapons manufacturers in the known world, Kaalakiota's ships are very combat focused. Favoring the traditional Caldari combat strategy, they are designed around a substantial number of weapons systems, especially missile launchers. However, they have rather weak armor and structure, relying more on shields for protection. Cladari Battleship Bonus: 10% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range per level, 5% bonus to shield Resitances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret rate of fire per level, 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret capacitor requirement per level Command Ship Bonus: 99% reduction in cpu cost for warfare link moduels Fitting slots: 8/6/5/2 Power Grid: 15000 CPU: 780 Hardpoints: 8 Turret/2 Launcher Shield HP: 9000 Shield Resitances: 15/60/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6500 Armor Resitances: 60/10/25/45 Hull HP: 8000 Velocity: 115m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwith: 50 Mgbits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capcity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Name: Oni Hull: Rohk Role: Fleet Command Ship Developer: Ishukone Most of the recent designs off their assembly line have provided for a combination that the Ishukone name is becoming known for: great long-range capabilities and shield systems unmatched anywhere else. Caldari Battleship Bonus: 10% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range per level, 5% bonus to shield Resitances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range per level, 3% bonus to seige warfare link moduel effectiveness per level Command Ship Bonus: 99% reduction in cpu cost for warfare link moduels, activate 3 warfare link moduels simultaniously Fitting slots: 8/6/5/2 Power Grid: 15000 CPU: 780 Hardpoints: 8 Turret/4 Launcher Shield HP: 9000 Shield Resitances: 15/60/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6750 Armor Resitances: 60/10/25/45 Hull HP: 7750 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwith: 50 Mgbits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capcity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2007.12.13 21:59:00 - [5] GALLENTE Name: Athena Hull: Hyperion Role: Fleet Command Ship Developer: Duvolle Labs Duvolle Labs manufactures sturdy ships with a good mix of offensive and defensive capabilities. Since the company is one of New Eden's foremost manufacturers of particle blasters, its ships tend to favor turrets and thus have somewhat higher power output than normal. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turrets damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret damage per level, 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret falloff per level Command Ship Bonus: 99% reduction in cpu cost for warfare link moduels Fitting slots: 8/5/7/2 Power Grid: 15750 CPU: 600 Hardpoints: 8 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 7000 Shield Resitances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8350 Armor Resitances: 60/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8650 Velocity: 130m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwith: 100 Mgbits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capcity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Name: Artimus Hull: Hyperion Role: Fleet Command Ship Developer: CreoDron As the largest drone developer and manufacturer in space, CreoDron has a vested interest in drone carriers. While sacrificing relatively little in the way of defensive capability, the Artimus can chew its way through surprisingly strong opponents - provided, of course, that the pilot uses top-of-the-line CreoDron drones. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turrets damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: +25m/3 to drone bay size per level, 3% bonus to information warfare link moduel effectiveness per level Command Ship Bonus: 99% reduction in cpu cost for warfare link moduels, activate 3 warfare link moduels simultaniously Fitting slots: 8/6/6/2 Power Grid: 15750 CPU: 600 Hardpoints: 8 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 7000 Shield Resitances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8500 Armor Resitances: 60/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8500 Velocity: 130m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwith: 100 Mgbits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capcity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2007.12.13 22:00:00 - [6] MINMATAR Name: Confligration Hull: Maelstrom Role: Fleet Command Ship Developer: Boundless Creations Boundless Creation's ships are based on the Brutor tribe's philosophy of warfare: simply fit as much firepower onto your ship as possible. Defense systems and electronics arrays therefore tend to take a back seat to sheer annihilative potential. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret arte of fire per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost ammount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret damage per level, 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret falloff per level Command Ship Bonus: 99% reduction in cpu cost for warfare link moduels Fitting slots: 8/6/6/2 Power Grid: 21000 CPU: 640 Hardpoints: 8 Turret/3 Launcher Shield HP: 7500 Shield Resitances: 15/60/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8000 Armor Resitances: 70/10/25/35 Hull HP: 8500 Velocity: 115m/s Drone Bay: 100m/3 Drone Bandwith: 100m^3 Cargo Bay: 550 m^s Capacitor Capcity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Name: Halbred Hull: Maelstrom Role: Fleet Command Ship Developer: Core Complexion Core Complexion's ships are unusual in that they favor electronics and defense over the "lots of guns" approach traditionally favored by the Minmatar. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret arte of fire per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost ammount per level Flagship Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret trcaking velocity per level, 3% bonus to scermish warfare link moduel effectiveness per level Command Ship Bonus: 99% reduction in cpu cost for warfare link moduels, activate 3 warfare link moduels simultaniously Fitting slots: 8/7/5/2 Power Grid: 21000 CPU: 640 Hardpoints: 8 Turret/3 Launcher Shield HP: 8150 Shield Resitances: 15/60/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 7350 Armor Resitances: 70/10/25/35 Hull HP: 8500 Velocity: 115m/s Drone Bay: 100m/3 Drone Bandwith: 100m^3 Cargo Bay: 550 m^s Capacitor Capcity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec
Rjaiajik Kajvoril Amarr Autonomous Systems	Posted - 2007.12.13 22:14:00 - [7] I must say, a nice idea. They would bridge a gap I see between Command Ships and Carriers. I can see these things being really very useful. RickRoll Avoidance Trolling EVE Knowledge
Rashmika Sky	Posted - 2007.12.13 22:19:00 - [8] Edited by: Rashmika Sky on 13/12/2007 22:20:31 Originally by: Balor Haliquin AMARR Name: Requiem Hull: Abaddon Role: Fleet Command Ship Developer: Carthum Conglomerate Carthum ships are the very embodiment of the Amarrian warfare philosophy. Possessing sturdy armor and advanced weapons systems, they provide a nice mix of offense and defense. On the other hand, their electronics and shield systems tend to be rather limited. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Energy Turret damage per level, 5% bonus armor Resitances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% reduction in Large Energy Turret Capacitor cost per level, 5% bonus to Large Energy Turret rate of fire Command Ship Bonus: 99% reduction in cpu cost for warfare link moduels Fitting slots: 8/4/8/2 Power Grid: 2100 CPU: 560 Hardpoints: 8 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 6850 Shield Resitances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8750 Armor Resitances: 60/35/37.5/35 Hull HP: 8000 Velocity: 120m/s Drone Bay: 75m^3s Drone Bandwith: 75 Mgbits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capcity: 6375 Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec Name: Oblivion Hull: Abaddon Role: Fleet Command Ship Developer: Khanid Inovations In addition to robust electronics systems, the Khanid Kingdom's ships possess advanced armor alloys capable of withstanding a great deal of punishment. Generally eschewing the use of turrets, they tend to gear their vessels more towards close-range missile combat. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 10% bonus to Torpedo velocity per level, 5% bonus to armor Resitances per level Flagship Bonus: 10% bonus to armor hit points per level, 3% bonus to effectiveness of armored warfare links moduel per level Command Ship Bonus: 99% reduction in cpu cost for warfare link moduels, activate 3 warfare link moduels simultaniously Fitting slots: 8/5/7/2 Power Grid: 2100s CPU: 560s Hardpoints: 2 Turret/8 Launcher Shield HP: 7350s Shield Resitances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8150s Armor Resitances: 60/20/25/35s Hull HP: 8000 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3s Drone Bandwith: 100 Mgbits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capcity: 6375s Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec The 5% reduction to laser cap on the Requiem should be 10%, that's the standard for that bonus. Also, the powergrid on both of these ships should be 21000, not 2100. Both of these ships are scary - Abaddon with 8 lows and a rate of fire bonus, with or without the -10% to cap/level? Or an Abaddon with launchers (no cap use) and 5 mid slots, and +50% armor? I'd hate to run into any of the Flagships (for any race) by myself in probably any ship. I think it's likely your designs are overpowered - Command ships aren't, because they don't do battleship level damage. These things surpass battleship damage and tank and provide bonuses on top of it... -Rash
Korran Minare Gallente Spaced Cowboys	Posted - 2007.12.13 22:21:00 - [9] Edited by: Korran Minare on 13/12/2007 22:24:49 very very well thought out and laid out. /signed Although the Drone bandwith on the CreoDrone ship should be 125 mgbits/sec and drone bay should be 125m3 to start with due to it being made by CreoDrone as they are the big drone company, otherwise these things would be wicked on the battlefield Originally by: Korran Minare what would you put on space pizza anyway????
Rjaiajik Kajvoril Amarr Autonomous Systems	Posted - 2007.12.13 22:28:00 - [10] I would agree with the above post. Bandwidth and Drone Bay should probably increase for those ships. RickRoll Avoidance Trolling EVE Knowledge
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2007.12.13 22:31:00 - [11] My appologies, the abaddon should say 21000 power grid. Th reason i didn't want to give the the CreDron ship more Mgbits/sec than 100 was to prevent it from being the gank ship of the world. With 125 it could field nothing but heavies, so instead i gave it a sustanible flow of drones. And yes my intention was to bridge the gap between Command ships and Capital class ships. The combat ready one for dreads, and the electronics one for carriers.
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2007.12.13 22:53:00 - [12] I would like to avoid making the be all end all ship, maybe take on two Battleships at once and have a good chance of comming out on top. Or even two other command ships, but not be a fleet destroying solo ship. Thats why i left all the fitting stats the way they were, so people don't build instant win ships unless they dump a load of cash into the ship. And Here is the suggested Skill tree for the Flagship. Of course its going to have to change per the ship and the requirements there of. Primary Skill required > Heavy Command Ship I -> Battleship V -> Command Ship IV -> Spaceship Command V --> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Cruiser V ---> Assault Ship IV ---> Frigate V Secondary Skill required > Leadership V -> Weapon Upgrade V -> Advanced Weapon Upgrade III --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Gunnery/Missle V Tertiary Skill required > Navigation V > Evasive Maneuvering V > Long Ranger Targeting V > Targeting V
Rjaiajik Kajvoril Amarr Autonomous Systems	Posted - 2007.12.13 23:10:00 - [13] I would consider adding the following skill requirements to these Behemoths. Warfare Link Specialist V Fleet Command I - Wing Command V This would make the ships become what it really should be and that's a Fleet Ship. No-one will train Leadership V, Wing Command V, Warfare Link Specialist V and Fleet Command if they're not going to be leading a fleet. It will make them fulfill a role as opposed to just being bigger and better battleships. Something to think about at least. RickRoll Avoidance Trolling EVE Knowledge
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2007.12.13 23:15:00 - [14] good point, that would make sence, "Wing Command V" and "Fleet Command I" will do
Rjaiajik Kajvoril Amarr Autonomous Systems	Posted - 2007.12.13 23:22:00 - [15] Edited by: Rjaiajik Kajvoril on 13/12/2007 23:23:30 I hope CCP takes a serious look at this topic now because honestly this is one of the best ideas I've seen in this forum in a good long while. This will make fleet warfare more tactical, something that CCP have always said they have wanted and provide an end point other than a capital ship for someone to aim for. PS: Kudos on the names. Very nice. I particularly like the Amarr names, as an Amarr pilot I feel the names have to feel just right, and these certainly do. RickRoll Avoidance Trolling EVE Knowledge
Sanctus Maleficus Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.12.13 23:34:00 - [16] Edited by: Sanctus Maleficus on 13/12/2007 23:36:03 I like this idea alot. I do have a few suggestions. First of all, as with T2 BC's, the two command ships should differ in their skill requirements. The Fleet style command ships should lean more on leadership skills, while the more combat oriented ships should lean more on combat skills, of course. Also, I think it would be nice if the Fleet-style ones had a better bonus to gang modules. Something like: 5% bonus to <race-related> warfare link modules per level, 2% bonus to <another races> warfare link modules per level. May run 5 modules at one time. I think these ships should tank like CRAZY but not really deal out too much damage (they wont with that many gang mods running anyway). I think they should be at that grey area of where they're valuable enough to call primary, but its ALMOST not worth it because of how tough they are.
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2007.12.13 23:44:00 - [17] this was exactly my intention, they are tough, but not imortal. As far as DPS they are about 15% better then standard Battleship and about 10% more than a Command Ship. I was going to try and do all the skill requirements for all of the ships but as it took me about 6 hours of calculating all the stats based off of the Battle Cruiser to Command Ship leap. And doing that for all the races plus balancing bonuses . I decided to just do basic skills that prity much all of the Heavy Command Ships would need. I'll have the full skill requirements that i can come up with as soon as i have free time. Thanks for the complement on the names. The only one im not happy with is the Minmatar fleet ship, the Halbred just does not seem to do it justice.. was gonna call it the Standard, as in Battle Standard. But alass i went with Halbred for some reason.
Rjaiajik Kajvoril Amarr Autonomous Systems	Posted - 2007.12.13 23:52:00 - [18] I actually agree with the warfare link module idea. I think it would make them yet more specialised. Maybe have the following as the Flagship bonuses for each race. Amarr - +20% to Armoured Warfare skill bonus per level. 5% bonus to Armoured Warfare link modules per level. Caldari - +20% to Siege Warfare skill bonus per level. 5% bonus to Siege Warfare link modules per level. Gellente - +20% to Information Warfare skill bonus per level. 5% bonus to Information Warfare link modules per level. Minmatar - +20% to Skirmish Warfare skill bonus per level. 5% bonus to Skirmish Warfare link modules per level. If you had the skill Flagship V (I think a better name than Heavy Command Ship V). You would be getting double the bonus for your racial warfare skill and a 25% bonus to your racial warfare link modules, making your race now come into play a little more as well. What do people think. Interesting change? RickRoll Avoidance Trolling EVE Knowledge
Rjaiajik Kajvoril Amarr Autonomous Systems	Posted - 2007.12.13 23:55:00 - [19] Originally by: Balor Haliquin Thanks for the complement on the names. The only one im not happy with is the Minmatar fleet ship, the Halbred just does not seem to do it justice.. was gonna call it the Standard, as in Battle Standard. But alass i went with Halbred for some reason. Perhaps the name Ensign would work. It's the name for the flag that a standard bearer carries into war. RickRoll Avoidance Trolling EVE Knowledge
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2007.12.14 00:03:00 - [20] to be perfectly honest i would like to avoid the bonuses above, im a believer of the K.I.S.S enginieering principle. Or the Keep It Simple Stupid idea. Its a good idea but way to much hassle to balance.
Rjaiajik Kajvoril Amarr Autonomous Systems	Posted - 2007.12.14 00:11:00 - [21] Well it's standardized so it's not exactly unbalancing for any one race and it gives massive fleet bonuses which is what a fleet ship should do. Example. Having any other ship leading an Amarr fleet into battle with full Armoured Warfare skill will provide a bonus, passed down to the Wingmen of +10% to Armour HP. If he's in a flagship this becomes a +20% to Armour HP bonus. Now unless the Wingmen are also in Flagships the Squad Commanders and normal Soilders will still only be getting +10% to Armour HP (assuming the Wingmen also have that same skill). I can see it being a big advantage, but not hugely unbalancing. Also it stops the Flagship from being a better damage dealer than the Battleships. It should lead by moral not superior firepower. It should make the whole fleet as a whole seem better and more powerful, not just be a scary big ship in the middle that everyone has to gank. That's just my opinion though. I think it would be very interesting to see if they would work. Especially as it would be impossible to get all 4 racial bonuses on any one fleet. Only one guy can lead the fleet so only one Flagship can pass on the bonuses, meaning you have to choose. It'll add a new dynamic I think. RickRoll Avoidance Trolling EVE Knowledge
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2007.12.14 00:18:00 - [22] Good point, but i think the way i have setup the ships will make it easier for CCP to look at and consider. Besides if trends in pricing for tech 2 ships are to be continued. You are looking at a 500,000,000isk to 750,000,000isk ship. So even more exclusive, but priced right between a tier 3 Battleship (180,000,000isk Abaddon) and a Dreadnought (about 1,000,000,000isk Revelation) of course these pricea are aproximate and subject to huge variability.
Rjaiajik Kajvoril Amarr Autonomous Systems	Posted - 2007.12.14 00:25:00 - [23] I would value them at the 350-550mil ISK mark based on capabilities and use. Fleet ships costing more than that would be too big an investment. Besides the real investment isn't the ISK it's the time spent on all those skills. So many level 5 skills, you'd be looking at spending 200+ days training to get one of those ships... that's pretty close to the training time needed for a dreadnought. These ships don't need to be expensive because it would take someone of a specific drive to want to go for them. A normal lone person would be more likely to train for a dreadnought or carrier as they have more PvP/Fleet/Corp potential for only another month spent training. Really it's a moot point though as I'm sure CCP would price it up themselves based on a much more sophisticated equation. RickRoll Avoidance Trolling EVE Knowledge
Korran Minare Gallente Spaced Cowboys	Posted - 2007.12.14 05:04:00 - [24] Originally by: Balor Haliquin My appologies, the abaddon should say 21000 power grid. Th reason i didn't want to give the the CreDron ship more Mgbits/sec than 100 was to prevent it from being the gank ship of the world. With 125 it could field nothing but heavies, so instead i gave it a sustanible flow of drones. And yes my intention was to bridge the gap between Command ships and Capital class ships. The combat ready one for dreads, and the electronics one for carriers. ok i can understand that, but if you keep it at 100, then a standard T1 Domi can field more drones than this one and out damage it. However by giving it 125 then it could field the same ammount as a domi but still only be able to have 2 flights of heavies with skills maxed by the way and that would take time. Or swap hulls and have the CreoDrone ship be based off of the Domi hull instead of the Hyperion, thoughts?? Originally by: Korran Minare what would you put on space pizza anyway????
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2007.12.14 05:58:00 - [25] As far as hull choice, i wanted to keep it in line with other T2 ships of the same type. I would consider doing the upgrade on the Artimus to 125m^3 and 125 Mgbits/sec but i don't want them to become instant gank mobiles that rule everything. Keeping the ship from having the massive wing of drones and ensuring a very good tank makes sure the ship survives longer to do its job in supporting the other ships in its fleet. The Dominix is already used in the sin. wanted to do it for the Tier 3 battleships.
Rjaiajik Kajvoril Amarr Autonomous Systems	Posted - 2007.12.14 06:25:00 - [26] With all fairness, the Artimus is supposed to be a tech 2 Gellente battleship. If there's one thing that Gellente do better than anyone else it's drones and considering this ship is actually designed by a drone manufacturing company it would make sense that it was better at using drones than any other Flagship. It doesn't have to be perfect. It having only enough room for one set of Heavy drones would be good, but being able to actually field a full set of Heavies makes sense. RickRoll Avoidance Trolling EVE Knowledge
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2007.12.14 10:43:00 - [27] Edited by: Eleana Tomelac on 14/12/2007 10:44:44 This is not a bad idea, but everything seems to focus much on firepower... Overpowered may be the word maybe, But I have no idea of their survival abilities and the overall damage output, would need to be checked closer. Originally by: Balor Haliquin And Here is the suggested Skill tree for the Flagship. Of course its going to have to change per the ship and the requirements there of. I think you mistaked a bit in the required skill tree, the three prerequired are not build as usual, here is a new one that should be eve-compliant : Primary Skill required > Heavy Command Ships I ->Command Ships IV -->Battlecruisers V --->Spaceship Command IV -->Warfare Link Specialist IV --->Leadership V -->Spaceship Command V (up to here, it's the command ships skill tree) (from here, the other needed skills for Heavy Command ships skill, anythign can be added) ->Fleet Command IV (as being a flagship) -->Wing Command V --->Leadership V ->Warfare link specialist V (as being a big link ship) -->Leadership V (Can add other things from AWU 5 to advanced spaceship command, but this doesn't sound too releveant) (This is the Battleship 5 requirement which is different on every heavy command ship) Secondary skill required >Racial Battleship V ->Spaceship command IV ->Racial cruiser IV -->Spaceship command III -->Racial frigate IV --->Spaceship command I Tertiary Skill required (the field/fleet command ship difference, one level higher than the command ship) >Logistics V ->Spaceship Command III ->Signature Analysis V -->Electronics I ->Long Range Targeting V -->Electronics II OR >Heavy Assault Ships V ->Assault Ships IV -->Spaceship Command III -->Engineering V -->Mechanic V ->Weapon Upgrades V -->Gunnery II ->Spaceship Command V -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Say hello to my tiny friends !
CynoCyber	Posted - 2007.12.14 12:05:00 - [28] extra 5% bonus for range at rokh hull is better can be changed to 5% damage. its has already very long range so no need 1 more bonus.
7shining7one7 Quafe Paladins	Posted - 2007.12.14 12:08:00 - [29] Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 14/12/2007 12:10:57 sounds like a great idea. nice writeup. if ccp picked up quicker on some of the ideas in the forums from time to time, and discarded the undocumented epic whine posts, eve would be 10x better than it currently is. oh yeah and they need to stop fracking trying to making another game untill eve is a LOT better..
Pacal Balan Minmatar Encina Technologies Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.12.14 12:34:00 - [30] Hmmm? Yes, I'm also on the band wagon thinking this is a very good idea. Let us hope the teflon-heads in the CCP are taking a good look at this thread and playing with it as a possibility. ThereÆs good reasoning for this idea and I'm all for specialisation, it gives pilots in EVE something to really work for and not just be a clone of another pilot. Nothing worse than listening to someone bleating on about how many ships they can pilot because of easy training. This kind of idea here deals with just this, and that can only make EVE even more special a place. Lastly, when you look at the additions of ships in Trinity, I think the CCP understands fully well that there is a want for specialisation, so why not this area too? Nice one Balor. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Rauth Kivaro ([email protected]) " Cizin's fire speaks to us...his chosen, Pero no pudieron matar nuestras rafces, for we cannot die!ö
Xzar Fyrarr Minmatar State War Academy Glory	Posted - 2007.12.14 12:59:00 - [31] I like this idea very much. It will not be another "O my gawd guise Ima twain phor tha l33t Heavy Command ship phor SoLo pee vee pee oWntage." but it will be something that enhances fleet combat, which a player who likes leading fleets would like to train. I like the idea of having flagships and thus. It brings a sense of pride and/or motivation to the fleet your flying with. IE:Its already bad enough in the now if your fleet commander gets killed, but with the new flagship bonus, it can quite possibly be drastically bad if your fleet commander gets killed. And maybe the idea of limiting flagships per fleet down to maybe 5 or 4? This might make it so Command ships can really be in "command" of one of there sqaudrons or wings. My last thought on this is : I was really disappointed with the command ship's of the now for the longest time. I would enter lowsec and every 7 or so systems, including high sec, I would see COMMAND ship after COMMAND ship. People fight solo in these types of ship's, which really make the word "Command" not needed for some of them , more so the field command ship. But then I came to realize there is hardly no solo-ing in this game, so the command ship was with a gang of 2 or 3 maybe more people :] Just my 3cents on this topic. Amen to a good idea. CCP there is beer and babes in this thread, a MUST read.
Rjaiajik Kajvoril Amarr Autonomous Systems	Posted - 2007.12.14 13:23:00 - [32] It looks like this idea has plenty of support. Hopefully we'll have CCP's opinion on this as a possibility soon. RickRoll Avoidance Trolling EVE Knowledge
Korran Minare Gallente Spaced Cowboys	Posted - 2007.12.14 15:00:00 - [33] agreed, and in a fleet setting i can see having one of these Flagships commanding a wing, with the smaller command ships taking care of squadrons and such, with a Carrier or Mom overseeing the entire fleet. Thoughts? Originally by: Korran Minare what would you put on space pizza anyway????
Rjaiajik Kajvoril Amarr Autonomous Systems	Posted - 2007.12.14 18:12:00 - [34] Yep Korran, pretty much what I was imagining for the EXTREMELY big fleet battles however I'd also see it as something to run the smaller fleet battles. The ones that don't have capitals taking part or because all your alliances carriers are in other wars many jumps away. There are a few possible uses for it within a fleet. It all depends on how you want to use it. If it ends up with the racial warfare skill bonuses I suggested then it may actually be worth having the Flagship leading the fleet and have two or three carriers leading wings, after all, you'd want the carriers to have the biggest bonuses. RickRoll Avoidance Trolling EVE Knowledge
Korran Minare Gallente Spaced Cowboys	Posted - 2007.12.14 18:49:00 - [35] very true Originally by: Korran Minare what would you put on space pizza anyway????
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2007.12.14 20:15:00 - [36] The advantages i thin these ships have 1. They are command oriented ships and thus will help any fleet that is connected to them no matter how big or small. 2. They are more powerful versions of battleships but not overpowered to the point were nothing can kill them. 3. They are very good well rounded platfrom that will help them do the command job they were desighned for. the disadvatages 1. They will be expensive to buy, train and field properly. 2. They are most certainly going to become the primary target, so keeping them well guarded is going to be a fteets top priority 3. Though they have a slightly better tank and weapon damage, they have no upgradded powergrid and CPU, so you still have the same fitting prblems of the tech 1 versions of the ships. 4. Because of their intrinsic cost they will be a somwhat exclusive ship. And if they are under the "only inventable" theme that CCP is doing, they will be even rarer.
Serenity Black	Posted - 2007.12.14 20:17:00 - [37] i dont like the rokh version. first of all it has only 11 mid/low all others have 12, so i assume its a mistake? secondly u gave it a 5% range? normal is 10% and u can easily reach 250km with the given rokh one. also like everytime other ships have the same amount of turrents but much more dronebay double in this case. and why are the gallente ships faster than the minmatar ones? and the amarr torp one get a range bonus that doesn¦t make sense and 8 torps are way too much. and torp would be better for the field command one and not for the fleet one. these ships are too powerfull and also to much damage orientated. give them more tanking but less ganking for their fleet role
Rjaiajik Kajvoril Amarr Autonomous Systems	Posted - 2007.12.14 20:31:00 - [38] They can do less damage than a capital ship and more than a battleship. I think they fulfill the role put to them quite well however you're right about the missing low/mid slot in the upgraded Rohk and the Minmatar ships should be the fastest ones. As for the Amarr torpedo boat. Amarr rarely make Missile ships however when they do they are always extremely focused on Missiles. This ship fits the theme that Amarr go for. (also as I recall, it's 2 Turrets and 6 Missiles isn't it). RickRoll Avoidance Trolling EVE Knowledge
Serenity Black	Posted - 2007.12.14 20:50:00 - [39] no it has 8 launcher and yes amarr has some missile ships but normally with short range missile, so maybe 6or7/2 laucher/turrents and instead of torp velocity 5% damage thats more amarr i think. but that ship can have such a huge tank, 5% resistance and 10% hitpoints damn thats to good to be true i want it (u forgot better base resistances on that ship) and u gave the caldari ships better resists on em and not kin
Rjaiajik Kajvoril Amarr Autonomous Systems	Posted - 2007.12.14 20:56:00 - [40] Actually that is more thematic of the respective nations. Something to think about when fine tuning the designs hey Balor. RickRoll Avoidance Trolling EVE Knowledge
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2007.12.14 21:01:00 - [41] here are the revised ships from the list on the previous page that i did up, they have skill requirments now.
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2007.12.14 21:02:00 - [42] AMARR Name: Requiem Hull: Abaddon Role: Fleet Command Ship Developer: Carthum Conglomerate Carthum ships are the very embodiment of the Amarrian warfare philosophy. Possessing sturdy armor and advanced weapons systems, they provide a nice mix of offense and defense. On the other hand, their electronics and shield systems tend to be rather limited. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Energy Turret damage per level, 5% bonus armor Resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% reduction in Large Energy Turret Capacitor cost per level, 5% bonus to Large Energy Turret rate of fire Command Ship Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 10% bonus to Armored Warfare Link module effectiveness Fitting slots: 8/4/8/2 Power Grid: 21000 CPU: 560 Hard points: 8 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 6850 Shield Resistances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8750 Armor Resistances: 60/35/37.5/35 Hull HP: 8000 Velocity: 115m/s Drone Bay: 75m^3s Drone Bandwidth: 75 Mgbits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6375 Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 80km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Radar 22 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 85 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Fusion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Heavy Command Ship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Amarr Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Amarr Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery III --> Weapon Upgrade V Name: Oblivion Hull: Abaddon Role: Fleet Command Ship Developer: Khanid Innovations In addition to robust electronics systems, the Khanid Kingdom's ships possess advanced armor alloys capable of withstanding a great deal of punishment. Generally eschewing the use of turrets, they tend to gear their vessels more towards close-range missile combat. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Torpedo velocity per level, 5% bonus to armor Resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to armor hit points per level, 3% bonus to effectiveness of Armored Warfare Links module per level Command Ship Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, activate 3 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8/5/7/2 Power Grid: 21000 CPU: 560 Hard points: 4 Turret/6 Launcher Shield HP: 7350 Shield Resistances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8150 Armor Resistances: 60/20/25/35s Hull HP: 8000 Velocity: 115m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3s Drone Bandwidth: 100 Mgbits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6375 Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 80km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Radar 22 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 85 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Fusion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Heavy Command Ship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Amarr Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Amarr Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signiture Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Armored Warfare Link V
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2007.12.14 21:03:00 - [43] CALDARI Name: Tsunami Hull: Rokh Role: Fleet Command Ship Developer: Kaalakiota As befits one of the largest weapons manufacturers in the known world, Kaalakiota's ships are very combat focused. Favoring the traditional Caldari combat strategy, they are designed around a substantial number of weapons systems, especially missile launchers. However, they have rather weak armor and structure, relying more on shields for protection. Cladari Battleship Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range per level, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret rate of fire per level, 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret capacitor requirement per level Command Ship Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 10% bonus to Siege Warfare Link module effectiveness Fitting slots: 8/7/5/2 Power Grid: 15000 CPU: 780 Hard points: 8 Turret/2 Launcher Shield HP: 9000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6500 Armor Resistances: 60/10/25/45 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 115m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 Mgbits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 500m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Heavy Command Ship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Caldari Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Caldari Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery III --> Weapon Upgrade V Name: Oni Hull: Rohk Role: Fleet Command Ship Developer: Ishukone Most of the recent designs off their assembly line have provided for a combination that the Ishukone name is becoming known for: great long-range capabilities and shield systems unmatched anywhere else. Caldari Battleship Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range per level, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret damage per level, 3% bonus to Siege Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Command Ship Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, activate 3 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8/6/6/2 Power Grid: 15000 CPU: 780 Hard points: 8 Turret/4 Launcher Shield HP: 9000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6750 Armor Resistances: 60/10/25/45 Hull HP: 7250 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 Mgbits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 500m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Heavy Command Ship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Caldari Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Caldari Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signiture Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Siege Warfare Link V
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2007.12.14 21:03:00 - [44] GALLENTE Name: Athena Hull: Hyperion Role: Fleet Command Ship Developer: Duvolle Labs Duvolle Labs manufactures sturdy ships with a good mix of offensive and defensive capabilities. Since the company is one of New Eden's foremost manufacturers of particle blasters, its ships tend to favor turrets and thus have somewhat higher power output than normal. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turrets damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret damage per level, 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret falloff per level Command Ship Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 10% bonus to Information Warfare Link module effectiveness Fitting slots: 8/5/7/2 Power Grid: 15750 CPU: 600 Hard points: 8 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 7000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8350 Armor Resistances: 60/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8650 Velocity: 130m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 Mgbits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 485m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Heavy Command Ship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Gallente Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Gallente Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery III --> Weapon Upgrade V Name: Artimus Hull: Hyperion Role: Fleet Command Ship Developer: CreoDron As the largest drone developer and manufacturer in space, CreoDron has a vested interest in drone carriers. While sacrificing relatively little in the way of defensive capability, the Artimus can chew its way through surprisingly strong opponents - provided, of course, that the pilot uses top-of-the-line CreoDron drones. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turrets damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: +25m/3 to drone bay size per level, 3% bonus to Information Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Command Ship Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, activate 3 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8/6/6/2 Power Grid: 15750 CPU: 600 Hard points: 8 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 7000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8500 Armor Resistances: 60/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8500 Velocity: 130m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 125 Mgbits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 485m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Heavy Command Ship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Gallente Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Gallente Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signiture Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Information Warfare Link V
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2007.12.14 21:04:00 - [45] MINMATAR Name: Conflagration Hull: Maelstrom Role: Fleet Command Ship Developer: Boundless Creations Boundless Creation's ships are based on the Brutor tribe's philosophy of warfare: simply fit as much firepower onto your ship as possible. Defense systems and electronics arrays therefore tend to take a back seat to sheer annihilative potential. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret arte of fire per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret damage per level, 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret falloff per level Command Ship Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 10% bonus to Skirmish Warfare Link module effectiveness Fitting slots: 8/6/6/2 Power Grid: 21000 CPU: 640 Hard points: 8 Turret/3 Launcher Shield HP: 7500 Shield Resistances: 15/60/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8000 Armor Resistances: 70/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 120m/s Drone Bay: 100m/3 Drone Bandwidth: 100m^3 Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 460m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Heavy Command Ship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Minmatar Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Minmatar Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Electronics V -> Gunnery III --> Weapon Upgrade V Name: Halberd Hull: Maelstrom Role: Fleet Command Ship Developer: Core Complexion Core Complexion's ships are unusual in that they favor electronics and defense over the "lots of guns" approach traditionally favored by the Minmatar. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret arte of fire per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Flagship Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret tracking velocity per level, 3% bonus to Skirmish Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Command Ship Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, activate 3 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8/7/5/2 Power Grid: 21000 CPU: 640 Hard points: 8 Turret/3 Launcher Shield HP: 8150 Shield Resistances: 15/60/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 7350 Armor Resistances: 70/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 120m/s Drone Bay: 100m/3 Drone Bandwidth: 100m^3 Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 460m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Heavy Command Ship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Minmatar Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Minmatar Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signiture Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Skirmish Warfare Link V
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2007.12.14 21:07:00 - [46] A small note , the Hyperion base speed is higher than any of the other battleships, so thats why its not the fastest. I forgot to add one slot to the caldari ships, my apologies and thanks for catching that. A changed out a lot of the bonuses to try and make them not so uber any more. And i increased the minmatar by about 5m/s or 10m/s.
Korran Minare Gallente Spaced Cowboys	Posted - 2007.12.14 22:18:00 - [47] very nice, they look more well rounded now Originally by: Korran Minare what would you put on space pizza anyway????
Rjaiajik Kajvoril Amarr Autonomous Systems	Posted - 2007.12.14 22:24:00 - [48] They're looking much better. Hell, this is why you posted them right? To get other opinions and fine tune your designs so that CCP may take them as a serious option, now just to make sure this stays as a hot topic, and discuss any other possible issues until we get an official CCP opinion. I think we're succeeding here honestly. The ships look well designed and balanced. I just hope to see these ships in a future patch. RickRoll Avoidance Trolling EVE Knowledge
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2007.12.14 22:28:00 - [49] Thats why i put this up, i would rather it not be an excersise in futility. please tell others to look at this and give their ideas and thoughts, i would like some more constructive critticism. I, as well, hope to see these in a future patch
Rjaiajik Kajvoril Amarr Autonomous Systems	Posted - 2007.12.14 22:41:00 - [50] One thing that would be a nice feature. Especially as these are Flagships is if, for these ships only, we could have a customized texture. Now normally I'm against custom textures as they would greatly increase lag, however, these would be rare ships so wouldn't appear all that often, having a negligible effect of lag (you could even have the same thing available for Capital Ships maybe). My basic idea is this. In a visible area on the ships hull you have the alliance or corporate logo. As though it's been painted onto the ship. This would make the ships more iconic in battle and a more impressive sight to be seen outside of combat. Could you imagine seeing a Flagship with FREGE or BRUCE written on it in huge letters in their specific logo. It would look amazing. RickRoll Avoidance Trolling EVE Knowledge
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2007.12.14 22:50:00 - [51] Im not so sure, i would rather just to the stander colors for the specific factions. Ill honestly take what i can get from CCP. Plus i would rather not threaten lag upon the world of eve.
Rjaiajik Kajvoril Amarr Autonomous Systems	Posted - 2007.12.14 23:11:00 - [52] It would only cause lag if it was on common ships. Every ship loads a texture, now if all of them had there own texture lag would be awful. However if you only have 2 or 3 flagships on the screen... then you'll likely be loading 2 or 3 textures anyway so it'll make no difference. The only way it would cause lag is if loads of different corps all had their flagships in the same system at the same time, and what's the chances of there being that many flagships honestly (we're talking 30+ before it would make a difference). I just think the idea of being able to put the corp/alliance logo on important ships would make them more individual and imposing. Plus, think about the moral. RickRoll Avoidance Trolling EVE Knowledge
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2007.12.14 23:25:00 - [53] An idea, but again i would just like to see these shi[s make it through to the game before talking about tags on the side of them.
Rjaiajik Kajvoril Amarr Autonomous Systems	Posted - 2007.12.14 23:28:00 - [54] Agreed. It's just a nice additional point to think about as well. My priority with this thread is to bring it to CCP's attention and hopefully get this new class of ship considered. I just wish we had a little more support. RickRoll Avoidance Trolling EVE Knowledge
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2007.12.14 23:36:00 - [55] Sread the word on EVE. That is what i have been doing, invite people to join the discussion.
Rjaiajik Kajvoril Amarr Autonomous Systems	Posted - 2007.12.14 23:45:00 - [56] I would but I can't log into my client at the moment. I think my graphics card is screwed. Whenever I log in I get 5 mins of play max and then my computer reboots, as though it's overheating. I'm going to get my room-mate to take a look at it. He works in PC repair so he may be able to figure it out. Seems like a hardware problem to me but I'm a software person myself, not that up on hardware. Anyway. I'll mention it where possible to others who may be interested. RickRoll Avoidance Trolling EVE Knowledge
Eka Maladay	Posted - 2007.12.15 00:20:00 - [57] Waaay over powered. The ammar one for example, it will have about 90% resistance across the board, and tanks with cap stable at 2000 dps. The massive amount of drone bay will also make it one of those solo pwn mobile which is the reason CCP didn't make Heavy assault BS or command BS =/ I would love one, but it will be way too powerful.
Rjaiajik Kajvoril Amarr Autonomous Systems	Posted - 2007.12.15 00:37:00 - [58] Not really. It's powerful compared to other ships however when you consider you need a level of skill approaching that of a capital ship to pilot it it's really not that powerful when you really think about it. Look at a dread or carrier, they have hundreds of thousands of HP where as the average battleship has what about 8 thousand... that's without tanking at all. If you can justify something with the "health" (for lack of a better word) of more than 200 battleships then you should be able to justify this ship for a very similar level of skill training. RickRoll Avoidance Trolling EVE Knowledge
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2007.12.15 02:31:00 - [59] I would like to know how you came up with the numbers of 90% across the board and 2000DPS tank. I don't want to insult but mearly improve the desighne of the ships. The drone bays on the ships are actualy the same or only slightly bigger than the standard versions of the ships. So as fars as getting a huge boost to DPS i relay can not see adding more than 200 to a ships DPS. Now as far as fitting, realize that ships get an extra slot to play with but do not get a boost in their PG or CPU to make that slot a real advantage to the ship. One would eb able to put something with low fitting requirements but thats it. Also allong with fittings the pilot would still have to make a choice between combat, tank, and support. Note that as far as i can tell, and please point it out if i am mistaken, each ship only gets two bonuses to its damage output. It gets at least one to its tank, and one for any misclianios or racial specific mod. So i realy can not see how it would get out of control on any of the stats. I gave none of the ships any hit point boost save the Minmatar ones. The Maelstrom had the lowest hit points to beginwith so i gave them 500 i think. Some of the ships got a speed boost. And all of them got their two racial resistances boosted by 15 for the primary and 12.5 for the seconday. The only one that scares me and i will probably attack its stats in the future is the Artimus that has the massive drone bay of doom. But their are point for and against that being the way it is. These ships would make prity poor solo ships because of their size and speed. Their element is in a fleet or small gang. AS i said before they are on average 15% better tank and 15% better damage. Nothing compared to the HAC and Command Ship.
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2007.12.16 02:47:00 - [60] looking for more input into the idea. Please post reactions and suggestions.
CptEav1s Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.16 05:12:00 - [61] Very nice I must say this is interesting. But, and I must say this, firstly some ships have useless bonuses (eg: Gallente Flagship with 100mb drone bandwidth getting 25m3 of drone space is a complete waste) Other than that there are a few minor inconsistancies with the bonuses (eg: the standard for turret falloff and some other bonuses is 10% not 5%) Just some collective criticism. Cheers - CptEavis Sarge "Hey, Grif chupathingy how bout it? I like it got a ring to it" I BRAKE FOR PUMAS!
delta phi	Posted - 2007.12.16 07:29:00 - [62] /sighned
Rashmika Sky	Posted - 2007.12.16 07:31:00 - [63] Originally by: Rjaiajik Kajvoril As for them being overpowered, I don't think they are. I think they are Flagships. Exactly what they should be, only barely below capital ships in force. They should be the kind of things that can take on 3-4 battleships singlehandedly and win hands down. Originally by: Rjaiajik Kajvoril Not really. It's powerful compared to other ships however when you consider you need a level of skill approaching that of a capital ship to pilot it it's really not that powerful when you really think about it. Look at a dread or carrier, they have hundreds of thousands of HP where as the average battleship has what about 8 thousand... that's without tanking at all. If you can justify something with the "health" (for lack of a better word) of more than 200 battleships then you should be able to justify this ship for a very similar level of skill training. There is a huge difference between battleships and capitals - and between these ships and capitals, because all these are, are battleships with extra bonuses. There is nothing "capital" about these ships, in terms of their role in combat, so comparing them to capital ships, or describing them as a bridge between battleships and capitals, is inaccurate. The thing with capital ships is, they don't get those extra hundreds of thousands of hitpoints, or their extra damage, or any of the other things they get, because of the skillpoints invested in them. They get it because of their increased size, basically, and they receive many disadvantages along with the advantages. They are slower, less maneuverable, have longer locking times, have greatly reduced effectiveness against sub-capital sized targets... These ships receive no such penalties, and simply become better battleships. You said one should be able to defeat 3-4 battleships - "hands down", in other words they don't even have to raise a hand to defeat them. So it'd be necessary to have 5 battleships to even have a chance to beat it, and it'd still probably destroy most of them, if not all. Welcome to Flagships Online. You know a ship is overpowered when you have to justify its power by comparing it to the next ship size up, or by high prices or long training times. Neither a pricetag or training time balances the effect a ship has once you undock in it. When balancing a ship, the skillpoints or isk required to use them is irrelevant. If that weren't the case, frigates would lose to everything, cruisers would lose to everything larger than a frigate, and so on. Instead everything has or is meant to have a niche. These ships could have a niche - I think the idea of Flagships is great, but I think the proposed implementation is overpowered. Personally, I would make Flagships capital sized. They'd tank far, far better, without having any chance of being solo ships, which is good because Flagships should be leading fleets. But as is? These ships are so overpowered, you could kill a fleet just by linking the blueprints in Local. -Rash
marie claude	Posted - 2007.12.16 07:45:00 - [64] have to say i like that how about make them incapable of locking a frigate? make the 2.5 x bigger than a battle ship? only 3 turret hard points. the other high slots are for logistics. it is supposed to be a logistic ship isnt it? say a range bonus to remote reps and not guns lasers ect.top speed say 89 mps. trinity = EPIC FAIL
Rjaiajik Kajvoril Amarr Autonomous Systems	Posted - 2007.12.16 08:06:00 - [65] Some interesting points, perhaps making the ships less combat capable would balance them, I'm not sure. As I suggested I would prefer for leadership skill and gang assist module bonuses as I described earlier. RickRoll Avoidance Trolling EVE Knowledge
Korran Minare Gallente Spaced Cowboys	Posted - 2007.12.17 14:59:00 - [66] giving them more of a command role is a good idea, possibly limit the number of weapons turrets to be able to fit link modules and such? Originally by: Korran Minare what would you put on space pizza anyway????
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2007.12.17 16:43:00 - [67] What my intention was with these ships was not to make a new PvP gank platfrom, but i can not say that people in the game would use them as such. What i was thinking they would be used for is 3 fold. One was to be used in a role as the flagship or command ship of a fleet or small gang. As such the ship must be suriviable enough to make sure that the ships its is supporting with its modules can save the ship if the flagship is declared primary target. So i decided to give the ship a better tank to help it survival. Also required for the role of flagships, it needed to be able to fulfill the role of a command ship. So i gave the ship the needed bonuses to using warfare link modules. Second was the idea of the ship being used in high sec wars in the assitance of taking down player owned stations. In that light the ship had to have a way of dealing damage, so it got a bonus to its damage or rate of fire. Either way i made the ships do more damage. Final was the idea that these ships are evolutions of their base ships. So to show that they are better able to do the job given they got another damage bonus of some kind for some , or another kind of bonus to some part of the ships systems. As for ensuring that they are balanced, i made sure to keep all of the bonuses to what the base ship was and then look at the command ship bonuses for each race and gave the flagships the same style bonus. There were some changes to the bonuses given to each ship but all in all they are the same. I then went through and made sure that anywhere it said "10% bonus" it was reduced to "5% bonus" Another comment; it is in my opinion imposible not to compare and contrast between exsiting and proposed ships. I wanted to provide people with examples in a way that i thought would help in the discussion. If one would like a reasoning why these ships have a valid reason to be in the game, then let me try my best to give a reason. I belive that these ships would provide an important role in the gang and feet warfare area. They are designed to be support ships in the same concept as command ships. These ships are not designed to be just another Heavy Assault Ship. U wanted to create something that would go along with CCP's continuing desire to move away from solo combat and toward groups of ships working together. AS far as these ships being a step between battleships and dreadnoughts, i was refering to the skills required instead of actual power of the ship. These ships are powerful and could take on 1 or 2 dedicated PvP battleships and stand a good chance of winning. But, i belive that the flagship would be more likely to loose engagements, because of how valuble a target it is. In referance to limiting the number of turret and launcher hard points on the ship. I would rather not. I like the idea of versatility over extreme specialization. Versatility has its own massive failures when it comes to combat. For example, setting up you ship for one sircumstance and then finding youself in another gets your ship destroyed.
Korran Minare Gallente Spaced Cowboys	Posted - 2007.12.17 18:16:00 - [68] These would be good for high sec pos warfare since you cant take dreds and cap ships into empire space, then these ships would be the leaders of the fleets Originally by: Korran Minare what would you put on space pizza anyway????
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2007.12.17 18:36:00 - [69] One of the jobs i had invisioned for them.
Danjira Ryuujin Caldari	Posted - 2007.12.18 02:23:00 - [70] Edited by: Danjira Ryuujin on 18/12/2007 02:24:42 It seems like what you've really done is made battleships obsolete for anyone who has the skills and isk to fly these. More gank, more tank, no real downside. I think everyone is so excited because they want new toys to play with, and these seem like damn fine toys, I'll admit that. How does your design combat the battleship deflation that I think would happen if these were released? You stated "value" of their kill as one possible reason. What else? Amarr - Annoying the Eve Community since 2005
Stakhanov Metafarmers	Posted - 2007.12.18 03:10:00 - [71] Edited by: Stakhanov on 18/12/2007 03:15:05 Edited by: Stakhanov on 18/12/2007 03:14:39 Command ships weren't meant to become gank platforms , yet they are mainly trained for their T2 aspects , not their bonus to warfare links. Look at the number of sleipnirs around. Command BS would "suffer" (balance wise) from the same issue. Current T2 BS are heavily pre-nerfed , yet many people will train for them just because they're better than T1 and possibly do something faction BS can't. Besides , I don't see the point of that class. Interdictors are very different from interceptors , HACs are much more powerful than assault frigates (people already complain about their lack of role) Electronic Attack Frigates seem slightly redundant to me considering combat recons , but at least they have significantly different attributes. Command ships are slow , so would be command BS. For very long , the difference between a myrmidon and a dominix was rather thin , both typically using the same weapon systems (5 heavy drones and 6 med guns , or nos) and strong tank for their classes. T2 BS should have powerful special abilities nothing else has. Black ops' were predictable , not bad in themselves but nothing too thrilling tactically. Marauders look funny , but since CCP sells them as mission running ships , more power to them The last class of T2 BS should have something shockingly new. I'm sure there are a few good ideas for that burried in this forum somewhere. Please , bring something original.
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2007.12.18 04:08:00 - [72] I don't think battleships would become obsolite because of this ship class. Yes this ship is more powerful and yes it has some greater capabilities that a standard battleship. But two things in my opinion will prevent the battleship from becoming obsolite. First, these ships will be very expensive to get, insure, and fly properly. If anyone is willing to risk a ship like that for every little gank they go on, they have more money that i can possibly imagine. Second, battleships are still very competent ships when flown by people who have the skills to do so. I have no desire to get myself into a Paladin, frankly from what i have scene the Abaddon i fly is a better platform for mission running and, if i could afford to, ganking. As far as the Black-Ops ship is concerned, it nice but not on my list of got to haves. Battleships provide a very good reliable and relitivley cheep way of palying eve. As far as balance goes, Black-Ops ships have their own very unique set of areas where they are second to none. I was atempting to make a ship that could attempet to be used in a fleet situation, and because of it being a very good target for the rest of the opposing fleet, i was trying to give the ships a reasonable chance of survival. As you will note some of the bonuses i gave to the ships are not a s good as the ships base hull. I would argue that if one was to make a ship that was nothing but bonuses to gang modules and thats it. No one would fly it because it would die faster than a frigate. Making the ships skill requirements geared toward fleet and wing command was a way of forcing the person skilling for the ship to get into the whole command idea. Not a solo gank platform. To be honest i have no way of saying that people will not use these ships for anything other than what they are intended for. But that is true of any ship put forth by CCP. All i can do is make a ship that is geared towards a particular job and go from there.
Korran Minare Gallente Spaced Cowboys	Posted - 2007.12.18 19:17:00 - [73] bump, trying to keep this one up near the top as it is one of the most detailed and thought out threads about a new ship that i have seen so far Originally by: Korran Minare what would you put on space pizza anyway????
Danjira Ryuujin Caldari	Posted - 2007.12.18 21:23:00 - [74] Originally by: Balor Haliquin To be honest i have no way of saying that people will not use these ships for anything other than what they are intended for. But that is true of any ship put forth by CCP. All i can do is make a ship that is geared towards a particular job and go from there. You could reduce the dps to less than their t1 counterparts. Carriers are supposed to fulfill this role you know. Huge capital ships that have insane tanks compared to non-capitals, yet (supposed to ) have very little damage potential unless their fighters are supporting other ships. The reason their damage potential is supposed to be low is to keep them from being an attack ship. You've essentially created a battleship with more dps, and a rediculous tank, and you've pretty much guaranteed That people will use it as an attack ship. Amarr - Annoying the Eve Community since 2005
Korran Minare Gallente Spaced Cowboys	Posted - 2007.12.18 21:25:00 - [75] but carriers arent allowed in empire space, this ship would take over the carrier role when carriers are unavaliable Originally by: Korran Minare what would you put on space pizza anyway????
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2007.12.18 23:07:00 - [76] A second issue with carriers is the growing debate about what their actual role is. As many people know about the changes that CCP wished to instill upon the carriers about 2 months ago now. They were going to reduce the use of the fighters and also make them less capable of transporting ships and gear in and out of low sec. To be honest reducing the DPS on these ships means that they may make it into the game but they will almost certainly never be used by players in a widespread manner. I would like these ships to be able to defend themselves and even be able to fight back. Reducing their DPS would ensure that they would be nothing more than over sized and, due to their increased signiture radius and there for the larger amount of damage they would take, very vulnurable targets. I belive that these ships as they are currently designed are close to filling the role that they are ment for. That is as a command ships and evolution to the battleship platform. But their primary use would be for command and control of fleets. and as such they need to be able to take and deal some damage. Considering there are bound to be ships in the opposing fleet which could wipe the floor with them. I'm speaking of other battleships, which I'm sure would be found in much larger numbers, and even command ships and battlecruisers. One on one the Combat varients are more than likely to kill a battleship of the same hull, i can admit to that. But the issue is still that of numbers. As i have seen and learned in PvP, there are very few times where the battle is one on one, and when it is, it is very few times that it is the same class verses the same class. I am starting to like the idea of reducing the number of hard points on the ships that are more directed toward warfare links. Maybe force them to put a gang link of some kind on. But then again, that might have the opposite effect and make people not want to fly that particular varient of the ship. Hope to hear more ideas about the ships, thanks for the responses so far.
Rjaiajik Kajvoril Amarr Autonomous Systems	Posted - 2007.12.18 23:14:00 - [77] Originally by: Korran Minare but carriers arent allowed in empire space, this ship would take over the carrier role when carriers are unavaliable Agreed. Also this isn't a capital ship meaning its a solid aim for corps too small to realistically consider capital ships yet. It's also useful for high sec mining/missioning corps. RickRoll Avoidance Trolling EVE Knowledge
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2007.12.18 23:44:00 - [78] Sorry i just had this horrible mental image, when i read minning, of a Flagship decked out with civilian mining lasers. But yes this is one of the markets that this ship is aimed at.
Rjaiajik Kajvoril Amarr Autonomous Systems	Posted - 2007.12.18 23:56:00 - [79] I was thinking more of someone sitting in a Flagship with 3 Mining Barges, a Cruiser Bodyguard (to kill rats) and an Industrial ship hauling the goods. Sitting there with Gang Assist modules and Mining Foreman/Leadership bonuses in effect. RickRoll Avoidance Trolling EVE Knowledge
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2007.12.19 00:03:00 - [80] Ahh good point, the ship has more uses than i intended.
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2007.12.19 01:12:00 - [81] I just noticed that the Athena has 2 of the same bonuses. I need to change this.
Rjaiajik Kajvoril Amarr Autonomous Systems	Posted - 2007.12.19 04:11:00 - [82] I've always seen these as being leadership boat, not all groups are combat. I personally feel that these ships would get a better overall response without combat bonuses. As nice as they are, they shouldn't out-gun a battleship, not really. They should support better than anything. I think all of the ships should get the Command Ship Bonus: "99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, activate 3 warfare link modules simultaneously." I don't see why you've only given this to half of the ships. I would consider these change to the designs for each ship; I've also included a new max speed which I think makes sense. These ships should be slow, they lead the fleets, they don't charge on ahead into battle so they don't need to be fast. AMARR Requiem - Amarr Battleship Bonus : +20% to Armoured Warfare skill bonus per level. 5% bonus to armour resistances per level Max Velocity : 90m/s Signature Radius : 540 Oblivion - Amarr Battleship Bonus : +20% to Armoured Warfare skill bonus per level. 2% bonus to capacitor capacity per level Max Velocity : 90m/s Signature Radius : 540 CALDARI Tsunami - Caldari Battleship Bonus : +20% to Siege Warfare skill bonus per level. 5% bonus to shield resistances per level Max Velocity : 90m/s Signature Radius : 540 Oni - Caldari Battleship Bonus : +20% to Siege Warfare skill bonus per level. 2% bonus to lock on range per level Max Velocity : 85m/s Signature Radius : 540 GELLENTE Athena - Gellente Battleship Bonus : +20% to Information Warfare skill bonus per level. 10% bonus to drone HP per level Max Velocity : 95m/s Signature Radius : 540 Artemus - Gellente Battleship Bonus : +20% to Information Warfare skill bonus per level. 2% bonus all resistances per level Max Velocity : 100m/s Signature Radius : 540 MINMATAR Conflagration - Minmatar Battleship Bonus : +20% to Skirmish Warfare skill bonus per level. 10% reduction to shield recharge rate per level Max Velocity : 110m/s Signature Radius : 540 Halberd - Minmatar Battleship Bonus : +20% to Skirmish Warfare skill bonus per level. 5% reduction to signature radius per level Max Velocity : 110m/s Signature Radius : 540 I've made them less of a weapons platform and more of a fleet/assist ship this way. They've all become slower (and Minmatar are the fastest which is how it should be as they prefer speed over anything else). And finally the 50 point increase to Signature Radius I calculated as a 0.25 factor increase between Battleships and Dreadnoughts. In effect what it means is they're easier to hit than Battleships and take slightly more damage from Large/Capital Weapons, making them less likely to want to go into combat solo. What do people think of these suggested alterations? RickRoll Avoidance Trolling EVE Knowledge
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2007.12.19 17:01:00 - [83] These are good ideas, however they do suffer from some problems. First they do not fallow what has been the traditional way CCP has done their ship bonuses. With few exceptions it is primarily the tech 1 ship's bonus plus a new set of bonuses from the varient type. Second the speed change on the ships dose not match with the ships they are based off of. The reason that some of the battleships are faster or slower than the racial normal speed is because they use different tactics to fly. For example the, the Maelstrom is an artillery platform and dose not need speed to close and do damage. The Hyperion on the other hand is set up as a blaster ship, so it needs speed to close. This is not to say that either ship is stuck in that role. The ideas for the bonuses are already on the ships in some form. The issue becomes the survivability of the ship in combat. Putting a good tank on a ship ensures that it can tank more damage, but if the ship is unable to return fire effectively than it is a good as dead. Im going to be redoing all the ships soon and will post the new stats. If anyone knows a way to make the stats the front page or put in a link in the new ship stats please tell me.
Rjaiajik Kajvoril Amarr Autonomous Systems	Posted - 2007.12.19 17:22:00 - [84] The reason I made the new speeds and signature radius is that remember it's only based on the Hull of the battleship, all the guts have been pulled out meaning it can legitimately have an entirely different propelling system in place. I'd like to hear what other people think of my suggested bonus. I know they're not like the normal bonuses people would be used to however they are very much characterful for these ships at least. Much more so than any weapon bonus... As for changing the first posts, there should be an edit button in the top right corner of each of your posts. RickRoll Avoidance Trolling EVE Knowledge
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2007.12.20 13:58:00 - [85] Im going to take some of the suggestions for the ships and redo all of the ship stats. Im going to be removing hard points for most of the ships to get people flying them to use gang warfare links. Also the Tsunami is going to become a missle boat. Other than that all of the ships are getting around 100 powergrid removed to make the fitting of an all guns flagship difficult. The last part im very hesitant on because of the already extremely tight fittings on the ships. The bonuses for the Athena and a couple of pther ships will be changed to eat into their DPS. At best the new stats will make the Flagship have anly about 5%-10% better DPS than their standard hulls. Before anyone cries wolf, not that now people would have to make a prity hard desison between the 3 main roles of the ship. Are they going to fit it primarily for Gank and forego a good tank and fleet assitance modules, or put a tank on and try to inrease ones survivability that way. Im trying not to force pleayers into one area or another by the fitting requirements. That is one of the main reasons i hate the new Murauders. So im trying to make something that, though not forcing, is suggesting that theses ships be used more for fleet command rather than gank central.
Korran Minare Gallente Spaced Cowboys	Posted - 2007.12.20 14:48:00 - [86] sounds like a good idea Originally by: Korran Minare what would you put on space pizza anyway????
Rjaiajik Kajvoril Amarr Autonomous Systems	Posted - 2007.12.20 16:17:00 - [87] Sounds good. I still think that increasing signature radius would have a good effect, it would make it a much less useful gank boat. RickRoll Avoidance Trolling EVE Knowledge
Rjaiajik Kajvoril Amarr Autonomous Systems	Posted - 2007.12.21 17:50:00 - [88] I don't want this idea forgotten and dropped into the ether. So, I guess... BUMP RickRoll Avoidance Trolling EVE Knowledge
RUSSBLADEZ	Posted - 2007.12.21 18:21:00 - [89] I really like this idea. alot of thought was put into this. now if you dont mind make me a gallente version plz, very interested to see how it turns out.
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2007.12.21 19:04:00 - [90] CALDARI Name: Tsunami Hull: Rokh Role: Fleet Command Ship Developer: Kaalakiota As befits one of the largest weapons manufacturers in the known world, Kaalakiota's ships are very combat focused. Favoring the traditional Caldari combat strategy, they are designed around a substantial number of weapons systems, especially missile launchers. However, they have rather weak armor and structure, relying more on shields for protection. Cladari Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Cruise Missle velocity per lever, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to Cruise Missle Launcher rate of fire per level, 2% bonus to Capacitor Capacity per level Command Ship Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 10% bonus to Siege Warfare Link module effectiveness Fitting slots: 8/7/5/2 Power Grid: 14900 CPU: 770 Hard points: 3 Turret/6 Launcher Shield HP: 9000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6500 Armor Resistances: 60/10/25/45 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 115m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 Mgbits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Heavy Command Ship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Caldari Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Caldari Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery III --> Weapon Upgrade V Name: Oni Hull: Rohk Role: Fleet Command Ship Developer: Ishukone Most of the recent designs off their assembly line have provided for a combination that the Ishukone name is becoming known for: great long-range capabilities and shield systems unmatched anywhere else. Caldari Battleship Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range per level, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret damage per level, 3% bonus to Siege Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Command Ship Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, activate 3 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8/6/6/2 Power Grid: 14900 CPU: 770 Hard points: 7 Turret/3 Launcher Shield HP: 9000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6750 Armor Resistances: 60/10/25/45 Hull HP: 7250 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 Mgbits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Heavy Command Ship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Caldari Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Caldari Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signiture Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Siege Warfare Link V
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2007.12.21 19:05:00 - [91] GALLENTE Name: Athena Hull: Hyperion Role: Fleet Command Ship Developer: Duvolle Labs Duvolle Labs manufactures sturdy ships with a good mix of offensive and defensive capabilities. Since the company is one of New Eden's foremost manufacturers of particle blasters, its ships tend to favor turrets and thus have somewhat higher power output than normal. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turrets damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: 2% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret tracking speed per level, 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret falloff per level Command Ship Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 10% bonus to Information Warfare Link module effectiveness Fitting slots: 8/5/7/2 Power Grid: 15650 CPU: 590 Hard points: 7 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 7000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8350 Armor Resistances: 60/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8650 Velocity: 130m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 Mgbits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Heavy Command Ship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Gallente Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Gallente Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery III --> Weapon Upgrade V Name: Artimus Hull: Hyperion Role: Fleet Command Ship Developer: CreoDron As the largest drone developer and manufacturer in space, CreoDron has a vested interest in drone carriers. While sacrificing relatively little in the way of defensive capability, the Artimus can chew its way through surprisingly strong opponents - provided, of course, that the pilot uses top-of-the-line CreoDron drones. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turrets damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: +25m/3 to drone bay size per level, 3% bonus to Information Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Command Ship Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, activate 3 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8/6/6/2 Power Grid: 15650 CPU: 590 Hard points: 7 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 7000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8500 Armor Resistances: 60/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8500 Velocity: 130m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 125 Mgbits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Heavy Command Ship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Gallente Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Gallente Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signiture Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Information Warfare Link V
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2007.12.21 19:06:00 - [92] MINMATAR Name: Conflagration Hull: Maelstrom Role: Fleet Command Ship Developer: Boundless Creations Boundless Creation's ships are based on the Brutor tribe's philosophy of warfare: simply fit as much firepower onto your ship as possible. Defense systems and electronics arrays therefore tend to take a back seat to sheer annihilative potential. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret arte of fire per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret damage per level, 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret falloff per level Command Ship Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 10% bonus to Skirmish Warfare Link module effectiveness Fitting slots: 8/6/6/2 Power Grid: 20900 CPU: 630 Hard points: 8 Turret/2 Launcher Shield HP: 7500 Shield Resistances: 15/60/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8000 Armor Resistances: 70/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 120m/s Drone Bay: 100m/3 Drone Bandwidth: 100m^3 Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Heavy Command Ship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Minmatar Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Minmatar Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Electronics V -> Gunnery III --> Weapon Upgrade V Name: Halberd Hull: Maelstrom Role: Fleet Command Ship Developer: Core Complexion Core Complexion's ships are unusual in that they favor electronics and defense over the "lots of guns" approach traditionally favored by the Minmatar. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret arte of fire per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Flagship Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret tracking velocity per level, 3% bonus to Skirmish Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Command Ship Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, activate 3 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8/7/5/2 Power Grid: 20900 CPU: 630 Hard points: 7 Turret/3 Launcher Shield HP: 8150 Shield Resistances: 15/60/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 7350 Armor Resistances: 70/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 120m/s Drone Bay: 100m/3 Drone Bandwidth: 100m^3 Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Heavy Command Ship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Minmatar Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Minmatar Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signiture Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Skirmish Warfare Link V
Rjaiajik Kajvoril Amarr Autonomous Systems	Posted - 2007.12.22 15:29:00 - [93] I still think the Flagship bonus shouldn't be a combat bonus, having bonuses to any weapon type makes them too solo capable. I say give them a more supportive bonus or a tanking bonus as their flagship bonus. So people won't use them for what Marauders are supposed to be used for now. RickRoll Avoidance Trolling EVE Knowledge
Rjaiajik Kajvoril Amarr Autonomous Systems	Posted - 2007.12.23 12:58:00 - [94] Just bumping this topic, making sure it doesn't get lost in the obscurity. RickRoll Avoidance Trolling EVE Knowledge
Lita F	Posted - 2007.12.23 13:02:00 - [95] No more shield boost bonus to matar k thnx bye. (maelstorm is kinda meh ship anyway and i hope that someday it actually gets resistance / anything else bonus than shield boost)
BiggestT	Posted - 2007.12.23 13:08:00 - [96] Edited by: BiggestT on 23/12/2007 13:12:47 a Originally by: Balor Haliquin CALDARI Name: Tsunami Hull: Rokh Role: Fleet Command Ship Developer: Kaalakiota As befits one of the largest weapons manufacturers in the known world, Kaalakiota's ships are very combat focused. Favoring the traditional Caldari combat strategy, they are designed around a substantial number of weapons systems, especially missile launchers. However, they have rather weak armor and structure, relying more on shields for protection. Cladari Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Cruise Missle velocity per lever, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to Cruise Missle Launcher rate of fire per level, 2% bonus to Capacitor Capacity per level Command Ship Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 10% bonus to Siege Warfare Link module effectiveness Fitting slots: 8/7/5/2 Power Grid: 14900 CPU: 770 Hard points: 3 Turret/6 Launcher Shield HP: 9000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6500 Armor Resistances: 60/10/25/45 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 115m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 Mgbits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Heavy Command Ship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Caldari Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Caldari Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery III --> Weapon Upgrade V Name: Oni Hull: Rohk Role: Fleet Command Ship Developer: Ishukone Most of the recent designs off their assembly line have provided for a combination that the Ishukone name is becoming known for: great long-range capabilities and shield systems unmatched anywhere else. Caldari Battleship Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range per level, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret damage per level, 3% bonus to Siege Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Command Ship Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, activate 3 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8/6/6/2 Power Grid: 14900 CPU: 770 Hard points: 7 Turret/3 Launcher Shield HP: 9000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6750 Armor Resistances: 60/10/25/45 Hull HP: 7250 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 Mgbits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Heavy Command Ship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Caldari Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Caldari Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signiture Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Siege Warfare Link V Yeah those bonus's are better, lol i trolled with out looking at balor's better version of the caldari flagship, so i edited this message mmk. Definately use this for cal, rails wld be too non-cal
Nemtar Nataal	Posted - 2007.12.23 14:28:00 - [97] Originally by: Rjaiajik Kajvoril I still think the Flagship bonus shouldn't be a combat bonus, having bonuses to any weapon type makes them too solo capable. I say give them a more supportive bonus or a tanking bonus as their flagship bonus. So people won't use them for what Marauders are supposed to be used for now. I totally agree if you intend to make this a fleet flag ship the dammage bonus is not the place to focus. It would be defensive bonuses as you want the bonus avalible for as long as posible. So extended tanking or resistance bonuses. At the same time if you want people to put more thought into boosting gangs giving this ships 8 high slots and allow people to fit all 8 with guns/launchers is a really bad idear. This ships should not have that big of a dammage potential. I would suggest removing 30-40% of the turret/launcher hartpoints to force people to fit the gang modules as this is the intended use of the ship. Honestly with this ships current configuration they look more like high powered fleet battleships then a battleship size commandship. One more thought. Wount this ship type make the commandships redundend? although fare more expendible...
Rjaiajik Kajvoril Amarr Autonomous Systems	Posted - 2007.12.23 15:42:00 - [98] It probably would make the command ship redundant if the flagship was done as intended however this would make fleet combat more interesting as it would make the market value of the ships drop, this means more people would jump at the chance to grab one because let's face it, a tech two ship is always wanted. I think it will be interesting to see how the changes would effect the market. I do think my suggestions for bonuses are much more suited and I agree that you should drop probably 2 of the turret/launcher hardpoints. RickRoll Avoidance Trolling EVE Knowledge
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2007.12.23 21:24:00 - [99] I actualy have been thinking about removing one of the damage bonuses on the ships for a fleet bonus. Right now I'm trying to get the whole concept evened out in my brain, so expect there to be a new set of stats. Basicaly give the ships something like 3% bonus to Capacitor Recharge rate to all ships in the fleet under the flagships command. Basicely have the bonus effect only the ships directly under the flagship. Per the usual way bonuses work in fleets, or at least thats how i think they work. Let me know what you think. Amarr = 3% bonus to fleet Capacitor Recharge rate per level Caldari = 3% bonus to fleet Shield Recharge rate per level Gallente = 3% bonus to fleet Armor Hit Points per level Minmatar = 3% bonus to fleet Ship Speed per level These bonuses would be under the Flagship Bonus section and replace one of the damage boosters. By the way, thanks for keeping this forum string alive.
Rjaiajik Kajvoril Amarr Autonomous Systems	Posted - 2007.12.23 23:25:00 - [100] Amarr = 3% bonus to fleet Armor Hit Points rate per level Caldari = 3% bonus to fleet Shield Recharge rate per level Gallente = 3% reduction to fleet Signature Radius per level Minmatar = 3% bonus to fleet Ship Speed per level I think this would make more sense personally. Amarr are supposed to be the best armour producers in the universe after all. It's definately a much better idea though. RickRoll Avoidance Trolling EVE Knowledge
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2007.12.23 23:42:00 - [101] Actualy if you look at it, i got these stats from the logistics ships and the titans. And as far as that goes this fallows the races very closely. Thats why i did it the way i did. I agree that the Amarr should get the armor bonus. But copnsidering the capacitor use of most Amarr ships, the cap recharge makes more sense for the group. Also consider that Amarr ships get the bonus to Armor Warfare Link modules. Thus they are better tankers than any other race. This would only make the Amarr more survivable. Secondly, the reduction in the Gallente signiture radius is not consitant with that races bonuses.
Rjaiajik Kajvoril Amarr Autonomous Systems	Posted - 2007.12.24 00:25:00 - [102] True, the signature radius doesn't quite fit, I was trying to come up with something balanced. I suppose it does fit to have cap recharge for Amarr but it means Gellente become the Armour tankers... it's irritating. RickRoll Avoidance Trolling EVE Knowledge
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2007.12.24 01:12:00 - [103] I would disagree, just because they would get a max of 15% more hit points per ship dose not make the Gallente the armor tanking race of eve. It simply means they have more hit points to run through. Amarr get a much better resistance spread (more evenly distributed) and thus have a batter resistances across the board, and as a general rule they get the resistance bonus. All of which in my opinion makes them better tankers. A bonus to the cap recharge rate would allow them to run an active tank more effectively. All things considered, these bonuses are on the Titans of the respective races, all though they are significantly higher. I think they will do well to reduce the direct combat effectiveness of the Flagship but make the fleet under them a whole lot more dangerous.
Rjaiajik Kajvoril Amarr Autonomous Systems	Posted - 2007.12.24 10:32:00 - [104] Agreed. RickRoll Avoidance Trolling EVE Knowledge
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2007.12.24 22:13:00 - [105] AMARR Name: Requiem Hull: Abaddon Role: Fleet Command Ship Developer: Carthum Conglomerate Carthum ships are the very embodiment of the Amarrian warfare philosophy. Possessing sturdy armor and advanced weapons systems, they provide a nice mix of offense and defense. On the other hand, their electronics and shield systems tend to be rather limited. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Energy Turret damage per level, 5% bonus armor Resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 3% bonus to fleet member's Capacitor Recharge Rate per level, 5% bonus to Large Energy Turret capacitor cost per level Command Ship Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 10% bonus to Armored Warfare Link module effectiveness Fitting slots: 8/4/8/2 Power Grid: 20900 CPU: 550 Hard points: 8 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 6850 Shield Resistances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8750 Armor Resistances: 60/35/37.5/35 Hull HP: 8000 Velocity: 115m/s Drone Bay: 75m^3s Drone Bandwidth: 75 Mgbits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6375 Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 80km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Radar 22 Signature Radius: 480m Scanner Resolution: 85 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Fusion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Heavy Command Ship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Amarr Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Amarr Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery III --> Weapon Upgrade V Name: Oblivion Hull: Abaddon Role: Fleet Command Ship Developer: Khanid Innovations In addition to robust electronics systems, the Khanid Kingdom's ships possess advanced armor alloys capable of withstanding a great deal of punishment. Generally eschewing the use of turrets, they tend to gear their vessels more towards close-range missile combat. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Torpedo velocity per level, 5% bonus to armor Resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 3% bonus to fleet member's Capacitor Recharge Rate per level, 3% bonus to effectiveness of Armored Warfare Links module per level Command Ship Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, activate 3 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8/5/7/2 Power Grid: 20900 CPU: 550 Hard points: 3 Turret/6 Launcher Shield HP: 7350 Shield Resistances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8150 Armor Resistances: 60/20/25/35s Hull HP: 8000 Velocity: 115m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3s Drone Bandwidth: 100 Mgbits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6375 Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 80km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Radar 22 Signature Radius: 480m Scanner Resolution: 85 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Fusion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Heavy Command Ship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Amarr Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Amarr Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Armored Warfare Link V
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2007.12.24 22:14:00 - [106] CALDARI Name: Tsunami Hull: Rokh Role: Fleet Command Ship Developer: Kaalakiota As befits one of the largest weapons manufacturers in the known world, Kaalakiota's ships are very combat focused. Favoring the traditional Caldari combat strategy, they are designed around a substantial number of weapons systems, especially missile launchers. However, they have rather weak armor and structure, relying more on shields for protection. Cladari Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Cruise Missle Launcher rate of fire per lever, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 3% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Points per level, 5% bonus to Cruise Missle velocity per level Command Ship Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 10% bonus to Siege Warfare Link module effectiveness Fitting slots: 8/7/5/2 Power Grid: 14900 CPU: 770 Hard points: 2 Turret/7 Launcher Shield HP: 9000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6500 Armor Resistances: 60/10/25/45 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 115m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 Mgbits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Heavy Command Ship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Caldari Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Caldari Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery III --> Weapon Upgrade V Name: Oni Hull: Rohk Role: Fleet Command Ship Developer: Ishukone Most of the recent designs off their assembly line have provided for a combination that the Ishukone name is becoming known for: great long-range capabilities and shield systems unmatched anywhere else. Caldari Battleship Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range per level, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 3% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Pionts per level, 3% bonus to Siege Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Command Ship Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, activate 3 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8/6/6/2 Power Grid: 14900 CPU: 770 Hard points: 7 Turret/2 Launcher Shield HP: 9000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6750 Armor Resistances: 60/10/25/45 Hull HP: 7250 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 Mgbits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Heavy Command Ship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Caldari Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Caldari Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Siege Warfare Link V
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2007.12.24 22:14:00 - [107] GALLENTE Name: Athena Hull: Hyperion Role: Fleet Command Ship Developer: Duvolle Labs Duvolle Labs manufactures sturdy ships with a good mix of offensive and defensive capabilities. Since the company is one of New Eden's foremost manufacturers of particle blasters, its ships tend to favor turrets and thus have somewhat higher power output than normal. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turrets damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: 3% bonus to fleet member's maximum Armor Hit Pionts per level, 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret falloff per level Command Ship Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 10% bonus to Information Warfare Link module effectiveness Fitting slots: 8/5/7/2 Power Grid: 15650 CPU: 590 Hard points: 7 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 7000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8350 Armor Resistances: 60/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8650 Velocity: 130m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 Mgbits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Heavy Command Ship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Gallente Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Gallente Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery III --> Weapon Upgrade V Name: Artimus Hull: Hyperion Role: Fleet Command Ship Developer: CreoDron As the largest drone developer and manufacturer in space, CreoDron has a vested interest in drone carriers. While sacrificing relatively little in the way of defensive capability, the Artimus can chew its way through surprisingly strong opponents - provided, of course, that the pilot uses top-of-the-line CreoDron drones. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turrets damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: 3% bonus to fleet member's maximum Armor Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Information Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Command Ship Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, activate 3 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8/6/6/2 Power Grid: 15650 CPU: 590 Hard points: 7 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 7000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8500 Armor Resistances: 60/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8500 Velocity: 130m/s Drone Bay: 125m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 125 Mgbits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Heavy Command Ship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Gallente Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Gallente Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Information Warfare Link V
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2007.12.24 22:15:00 - [108] MINMATAR Name: Conflagration Hull: Maelstrom Role: Fleet Command Ship Developer: Boundless Creations Boundless Creation's ships are based on the Brutor tribe's philosophy of warfare: simply fit as much firepower onto your ship as possible. Defense systems and electronics arrays therefore tend to take a back seat to sheer annihilative potential. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret arte of fire per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Flagship Bonus: 3% bonus to fleet member's Signiture Radius reduction per level, 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret falloff per level Command Ship Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 10% bonus to Skirmish Warfare Link module effectiveness Fitting slots: 8/6/6/2 Power Grid: 20900 CPU: 630 Hard points: 8 Turret/2 Launcher Shield HP: 7500 Shield Resistances: 15/60/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8000 Armor Resistances: 70/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 120m/s Drone Bay: 100m/3 Drone Bandwidth: 100m^3 Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Heavy Command Ship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Minmatar Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Minmatar Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Electronics V -> Gunnery III --> Weapon Upgrade V Name: Halberd Hull: Maelstrom Role: Fleet Command Ship Developer: Core Complexion Core Complexion's ships are unusual in that they favor electronics and defense over the "lots of guns" approach traditionally favored by the Minmatar. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret arte of fire per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Flagship Bonus: 3% bonus to fleet member's Signature Radius reduction per level, 3% bonus to Skirmish Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Command Ship Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, activate 3 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8/7/5/2 Power Grid: 20900 CPU: 630 Hard points: 7 Turret/3 Launcher Shield HP: 8150 Shield Resistances: 15/60/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 7350 Armor Resistances: 70/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 120m/s Drone Bay: 100m/3 Drone Bandwidth: 100m^3 Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Heavy Command Ship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Minmatar Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Minmatar Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Skirmish Warfare Link V
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2007.12.24 22:19:00 - [109] Here is the revised mission statement for the Flagship (Heavy Command Ship) FLAGSHIP Flagships are designed for use in large fleet combat situations, Designed to be the central command vessel for entire fleets in a single system. They realey on their massive defences to make sure that they stay in the fight and support the fleet for as long as possible. Ships of these types are expensive to field but give a fleet unpresidented tactical advantages. These ships are the pride of any navy in the field.
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2007.12.26 16:15:00 - [110] bump Just trying to keep this thread on the front couple of pages. Looking for more input on this subject from new people.
Korran Minare Gallente Spaced Cowboys	Posted - 2007.12.26 19:16:00 - [111] Even after the changes that some have suggested these ships still deserve to be kept on the front page, Good job Balor Originally by: Korran Minare what would you put on space pizza anyway????
Rjaiajik Kajvoril Amarr Autonomous Systems	Posted - 2007.12.26 20:55:00 - [112] I still like these ships... More publicity needed. RickRoll Avoidance Trolling EVE Knowledge
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2007.12.27 03:49:00 - [113] Then spread the word please. The only way that any idea has a chance to be recognized is to have people see it and comment on it.
Solomun Gendy Gallente Dire Trucking	Posted - 2007.12.27 05:10:00 - [114] basically i have two comments to put in: first, i agree with your thought about not having damage bonuses for the flagship bonuses. we can look at the command ships that already exist and see that people use them most often for a gank role, and we want these to be used for a command role. it was also stated in the last open dev blog that ccp's working on finding a way to fix high-sec pos warfare, so trusting them we can do away with this as a possible role for the new ships. second, and balor knows i'm a nut for this particular subject, lets try and turn one of them (at least the fleet command version) into more of a support ship, giving them a bonus similar to those found in the logistics frigates (one bonus however, not two). This would allow us to make a larger difference between the two ships in the class, and also fill in a logistics role for larger ship sizes in fleet combat. besides that, however, keep up the good work B
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2007.12.27 17:27:00 - [115] Well sol, the concept behind the ships is as a bigger command ship, but more oriented toward command than gank. They are not much better at dealing damage (as far as i can tell) but they make the fleet around them much more dangerous. Turning a set of them into logistics ships would go against the concept of the ships themselves. I'm not saying battleships size logistic ships would be about the nastiest thing to have off your starboard bow, its not a role that these ships can fill. They are ship designed to to be at the core of the command structure of a fleet. As far as high sec POS warfare is concerned, it would give the fleet the edge to actualy do some damage to a POS in high sec. Considering what the ships were originaly and what they are now. They are much more fleet oriented. My feeling is that turning one into a logistics ship is a job better served by another hull and bonus setup. (Sol... Logistics Domi) Thanks for the input though, to you and to everyone.
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2007.12.28 16:42:00 - [116] As far as i can tell, the way i have the ships currently setup means they will last longer in battle but have very little difference to the overall DPS that they put out over their base hull. To make a good gank platform out of one of these ships looks like it will require the sacrifice of a low slot or two to get the ship to fit good weapon systems. And considering that the only ship in the entire group able to mount a full rack of Guns is the Requiem, and even then its going to sacrifice its bonus low for a module to get the full rack, its realy no different as far as DPS from the standard Abaddon. If there are any other ideas on how to balance the ships. Please join the conversation. But please point out what is broken and why you think it is.
Korran Minare Gallente Spaced Cowboys Dread Sovereign	Posted - 2007.12.28 21:19:00 - [117] bump, just tryin to keep this one near the top of the pile, would really like to see these ships considered Originally by: Korran Minare what would you put on space pizza anyway????
TranquilityOne	Posted - 2007.12.28 23:10:00 - [118] What the heck is all I can say. Has anyone else supporting or not supporting these ships realize that these are giant hacs? Which was exactly what the marauder was supposed to avoid? The baddon one gets a double damage bonus WITH a cap bonus and retains the armor +% bonus WITH T1.5 (since not as extreme as HACs) resists. Expensive, long to train for, super damage, amazing tank... hey you know what? That almost sounds like the carrier cept.. it uses guns to deliver damage and can operate in empire space. The last thing we need are giant HACs dealing double damage for the super small elite population that will actually fly these ships.
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2007.12.30 06:42:00 - [119] I would like to know what version of the ships you are looking at. The current versions of the ships have the same bonuses, with few exceptions, as their bas ships, plus bonuses that give their fleets more tank and better combat capabilites. Saying that these ships are nothing more than giant HACs is as far as I can tell rather unwarented. The comparison to a carrier as far as training time and cost is as far as i can tell not fair considering the intrinsic cost of training to a carrier and getting all the components put the ship cost well past 2 billion Isk. Also the training time on the ship though long is not nearly as long as that of a carrier. To be honest i would realy like to see the math behind the claim that the current versions of the ships are capable of dealing double damage over their base hulls. At best they do the same or a little more damage.
Korran Minare Gallente Spaced Cowboys Dread Sovereign	Posted - 2007.12.31 16:36:00 - [120] Back to the top of the pile with this one, Me has a special place in my hangar for the two Gallente versions Originally by: Korran Minare what would you put on space pizza anyway????
Druadan Gallente Aristotle Enterprises	Posted - 2007.12.31 21:45:00 - [121] Edited by: Druadan on 31/12/2007 21:50:33 I don't think there should be two for each race. If you're trying to fulfil a role, try to fulfil it with one ship per race. Where two of a type exist (e.g. covert ops [covops and stealth bomber], recon ships [force and combat]), it's because they're roled differently. These even have the same role name between the two ships. This shouldn't be the case, as it's just introducing ships for ships' sake. Also, their roles should not be Fleet Command Ship. Yes they're commanding a fleet, but we already have Fleet Command Ships, so just give them the role Flagship, or something. I like how the idea of these ships has progressed further into the fleet role, but they're still way to similar to the big HAC that CCP tried to avoid. The resist bonus needs to stay, or the opposition will lose little time taking them out and your billion ISK investment in gang superiority will disappear quickly. It's the damage bonus that's a problem. It needs to go. Replace it with a 2% per level bonus to gang rate of fire? I choose RoF because it boosts DPS but you have to pay for it with cap as usual. Gang bonuses help to reduce the solo ability, so it might be a good idea, when considering any bonus for these ships, to think about how that effects the ships solo abilities, and what sort of gang bonus could replace that. The bonuses to repair amount are useless. Why? Because repair amount means nothing in a fleet battle. You can fit yourself together a faction tank at the moment, take it into a fleet battle, and then when you get the focus of the enemy fleet you'll get maybe one cycle off before you're dead. Fleet battles are all about HP, and that means buffer tank. So that bonus needs to be a serious boost to HP or a boost to resistances. It's looking very good though, and I'm glad to see a suggestions thread without flames. Over in General Discussion it would be a different story.
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2008.01.02 01:58:00 - [122] My initial concept of the ships was to have some veriety for the ships. The Amarr and Caldari get a unique ship in the for of a missle boat and a regular gun boat. For the Minmatar and Gallente its a bit more difficult. Thrying to make two unique varients of the ships and preventing one from becoming a very overpowered version of the base hull is hard. I would like to point out that with some minor bonus exceptions and a few other stat changes these ships fallow the progression for the Command Ships very well. AS for the damage bonuses that the ships get. I would like to point out that each ship, again with some minor exceptions, fallow the base hull bonuses for each race fairly consistantly. I would also like to note that as far as solo capabilities go. I would rather not risk my Requiem costing in excess of 500,000,000, in a solo environment. I would however like to use my 150,000,000 isk Abaddon instead. I think that considering the limited, or more limited, fitting stats for the ship, making them a solo platform would net a ship that no single pilot would be willing to fly without the support of a fleet. Also about the Gallente armor bonus. I honestly can not think of a better bonus that would not make the Amarr armor bonus look like crap. And considering that Amarr are supposed to be the best armor tankers out there, i would rather not continue to nerf a race that has a handful of good ships.
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2008.01.03 17:18:00 - [123] I am considering changing the bonus on the Minmatar's Conflagration to be "5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret optimal range per level" instead of to its falloff. Another change may be the rewrite of the roles for the ships. Under the current heading all they say is "Fleet Command Ship". I would like to be more specific and help stress the difference between the front line combat version, and the more fleet oriented version. The roles will change to the fallowing, or something close to it. Role: Field Heavy Command Ship Role: Fleet Heavy Command Ship Also, i would like to know weather people would like them to be known as "Heavy Command Ships" or "Flagships" i will have to change the skill name to match the ship class name. Just some minor technical stuff for now. And as always your sugestions are more than welcome.
Tzesaeia	Posted - 2008.01.03 20:09:00 - [124] I must say that I haven't read your hole idea. But it is mutch and I need a critical Information it doesn't give right in the beginning. Have you thought about what command ships would be useful than? After the intorduction of your Battleship sized command ship? Normal Command ships need an incredible ammount of training time no one would like to see all his Skill Points useless for Bc lvl5 for example. What skills would your BS command need? It is not at all a good idea to just fit in a sorta BS command ship to fill the gab between flying a BS and a carrier. I once suggested to introduce a capital command ship that is not that good for dmg or drones as dreads or carriers but can fit capital warfare link modules that do benefit capitals and their modules only. In this idea you would not need BS lvl5 or large guns lvl5 but BC lvl5* and a special capital ship skill only for command capital ships aswell as one special skill for the modules. But I lost the link ot the thread I gonna put a new thread up rightr away though maybe wanna look into it i gonna give the link here later. * BC and BS habe the same rank and need exactly the same training time so this is not at all imbalanced.
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2008.01.04 03:01:00 - [125] I would Invite you to read further and also use the links at the beginning to look at the latest version of the ships.
Korran Minare Gallente Spaced Cowboys Dread Sovereign	Posted - 2008.01.04 22:10:00 - [126] back to the top Originally by: Korran Minare what would you put on space pizza anyway????
Karrade Krise	Posted - 2008.01.05 02:38:00 - [127] Wow, great write up this idea is sound! Now....with these being basically FlagShips...Do you think that there should only be one allowed per Fleet? Or maybe you can allow multiple flagships, but designate only one as the FlagShip for the fleet-where it gets specific fleet bonuses, whereas the secondary flagships give a smaller bonus to their squad/wing... It would be just like designating the Fleet/Squad/Wing Boosters, Boss, and stuff like that. Sig locked, I will not make fun of the forum mods
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2008.01.05 15:55:00 - [128] I was considering only allowing one flagship per fleet. But, several problems came up with that idea. First, only allowing a single Flagship per fleet seemed extremely artifical in the sense that there is some unwritten rule that dose not work with the in-game fluff or statistics. Yes, there are some items in EVE which are very artificial, like not allowing Dreadnoughts and Carriers into high sec. That ruines the flow of the game in my opinion and I wanted to avoid that if I could. Designating the ship as a Fleet/Wing/Squad commander means that the ships fleet bonuses will then come into effect. Now I'm not sure how the fleet system works but I'm reasonably sure that a fleet commander only effects those ships directly under his command and not to the entire fleet. And a wing commander only affects those directly in his wing, and so on. Pleas correct me if I am wrong.
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2008.01.06 07:00:00 - [129] AMARR Name: Requiem Hull: Abaddon Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Carthum Conglomerate Carthum ships are the very embodiment of the Amarrian warfare philosophy. Possessing sturdy armor and advanced weapons systems, they provide a nice mix of offense and defense. On the other hand, their electronics and shield systems tend to be rather limited. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Energy Turret damage per level, 5% bonus armor Resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 3% bonus to fleet member's Capacitor Recharge Rate per level, 5% bonus to Large Energy Turret capacitor cost per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 10% bonus to Armored Warfare Link module effectiveness Fitting slots: 8/4/8/2 Power Grid: 20900 CPU: 550 Hard points: 8 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 6850 Shield Resistances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8750 Armor Resistances: 60/35/37.5/35 Hull HP: 8000 Velocity: 115m/s Drone Bay: 75m^3s Drone Bandwidth: 75 Mgbits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6375 Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 80km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Radar 22 Signature Radius: 480m Scanner Resolution: 85 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Fusion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Amarr Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Amarr Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery III --> Weapon Upgrade V Name: Oblivion Hull: Abaddon Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Khanid Innovations In addition to robust electronics systems, the Khanid Kingdom's ships possess advanced armor alloys capable of withstanding a great deal of punishment. Generally eschewing the use of turrets, they tend to gear their vessels more towards close-range missile combat. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Torpedo velocity per level, 5% bonus to armor Resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 3% bonus to fleet member's Capacitor Recharge Rate per level, 3% bonus to effectiveness of Armored Warfare Links module per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, activate 3 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8/5/7/2 Power Grid: 20900 CPU: 550 Hard points: 3 Turret/6 Launcher Shield HP: 7350 Shield Resistances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8150 Armor Resistances: 60/20/25/35s Hull HP: 8000 Velocity: 115m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3s Drone Bandwidth: 100 Mgbits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6375 Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 80km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Radar 22 Signature Radius: 480m Scanner Resolution: 85 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Fusion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Amarr Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Amarr Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Armored Warfare Link V
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2008.01.06 07:01:00 - [130] CALDARI Name: Tsunami Hull: Rokh Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Kaalakiota As befits one of the largest weapons manufacturers in the known world, Kaalakiota's ships are very combat focused. Favoring the traditional Caldari combat strategy, they are designed around a substantial number of weapons systems, especially missile launchers. However, they have rather weak armor and structure, relying more on shields for protection. Cladari Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Missile Launcher rate of fire per lever, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 3% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Points per level, 5% bonus to Missile velocity per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 10% bonus to Siege Warfare Link module effectiveness Fitting slots: 8/7/5/2 Power Grid: 14900 CPU: 770 Hard points: 2 Turret/7 Launcher Shield HP: 9000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6500 Armor Resistances: 60/10/25/45 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 115m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 Mgbits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Caldari Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Caldari Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery III --> Weapon Upgrade V Name: Oni Hull: Rohk Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Ishukone Most of the recent designs off their assembly line have provided for a combination that the Ishukone name is becoming known for: great long-range capabilities and shield systems unmatched anywhere else. Caldari Battleship Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range per level, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 3% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Siege Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, activate 3 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8/6/6/2 Power Grid: 14900 CPU: 770 Hard points: 7 Turret/2 Launcher Shield HP: 9000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6750 Armor Resistances: 60/10/25/45 Hull HP: 7250 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 Mgbits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Caldari Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Caldari Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Siege Warfare Link V
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2008.01.06 07:01:00 - [131] GALLENTE Name: Athena Hull: Hyperion Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Duvolle Labs Duvolle Labs manufactures sturdy ships with a good mix of offensive and defensive capabilities. Since the company is one of New Eden's foremost manufacturers of particle blasters, its ships tend to favor turrets and thus have somewhat higher power output than normal. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turrets damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: 3% bonus to fleet member's maximum Armor Hit Points per level, 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret falloff per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 10% bonus to Information Warfare Link module effectiveness Fitting slots: 8/5/7/2 Power Grid: 15650 CPU: 590 Hard points: 7 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 7000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8350 Armor Resistances: 60/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8650 Velocity: 130m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 Mgbits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Gallente Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Gallente Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery III --> Weapon Upgrade V Name: Artimus Hull: Hyperion Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: CreoDron As the largest drone developer and manufacturer in space, CreoDron has a vested interest in drone carriers. While sacrificing relatively little in the way of defensive capability, the Artimus can chew its way through surprisingly strong opponents - provided, of course, that the pilot uses top-of-the-line CreoDron drones. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 10% bonus to drone Hit Points and Damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: 3% bonus to fleet member's maximum Armor Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Information Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, activate 3 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8/6/6/2 Power Grid: 15650 CPU: 590 Hard points: 7 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 7000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8500 Armor Resistances: 60/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8500 Velocity: 130m/s Drone Bay: 125m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 125 Mgbits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Gallente Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Gallente Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Information Warfare Link V
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2008.01.06 07:02:00 - [132] MINMATAR Name: Conflagration Hull: Maelstrom Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Boundless Creations Boundless Creation's ships are based on the Brutor tribe's philosophy of warfare: simply fit as much firepower onto your ship as possible. Defense systems and electronics arrays therefore tend to take a back seat to sheer annihilative potential. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret arte of fire per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Flagship Bonus: 3% bonus to fleet member's Signature Radius reduction per level, 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret falloff per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 10% bonus to Skirmish Warfare Link module effectiveness Fitting slots: 8/6/6/2 Power Grid: 20900 CPU: 630 Hard points: 8 Turret/2 Launcher Shield HP: 7500 Shield Resistances: 15/60/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8000 Armor Resistances: 70/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 120m/s Drone Bay: 100m/3 Drone Bandwidth: 100m^3 Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Minmatar Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Minmatar Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Electronics V -> Gunnery III --> Weapon Upgrade V Name: Halberd Hull: Maelstrom Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Core Complexion Core Complexion's ships are unusual in that they favor electronics and defense over the "lots of guns" approach traditionally favored by the Minmatar. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret arte of fire per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Flagship Bonus: 3% bonus to fleet member's Signature Radius reduction per level, 3% bonus to Skirmish Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, activate 3 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8/7/5/2 Power Grid: 20900 CPU: 630 Hard points: 7 Turret/3 Launcher Shield HP: 8150 Shield Resistances: 15/60/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 7350 Armor Resistances: 70/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 120m/s Drone Bay: 100m/3 Drone Bandwidth: 100m^3 Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Minmatar Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Minmatar Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Skirmish Warfare Link V
Ghostess United Mining Corporation	Posted - 2008.01.06 17:54:00 - [133] I'd like to know what kind of costs these ships would have to have to be balanced with their abilities.
duger	Posted - 2008.01.06 17:54:00 - [134] i like the new plans m8, you might want to consider increasing their max targeting range, the marauders have more than your ships do in that spot.
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2008.01.06 18:37:00 - [135] The cost as far as ISK per ship is unfortunately up to the markets of EVE. But as for a base cost i would assume it would fallow the trends of the tech 2 ships and be around 500,000,000ISK to 750,000,000ISK. As for mineral costs, i am a combat pilot and have no clue how to begin to wrap my brain around the mineral costs of the ships. The reason that i made the Flagship have less lock-on range then the Murauders is because the simple fact i would rather not propose a ship that is doing the job of a Murauder better than a Murauder. These ships could do missions but i would rather not render a recently introduced class of ships to the game, completely and utterly obsolete.
Korran Minare Gallente Spaced Cowboys Dread Sovereign	Posted - 2008.01.07 20:43:00 - [136] Love the new setup for the flagships Balor, and back to the top with this one in hopes that a dev will glance over it Originally by: Korran Minare what would you put on space pizza anyway????
Rezerwowy Pies	Posted - 2008.01.07 21:28:00 - [137] /signed
Korran Minare Gallente Spaced Cowboys Dread Sovereign	Posted - 2008.01.08 21:32:00 - [138] back to the top Originally by: Korran Minare what would you put on space pizza anyway????
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2008.01.09 03:14:00 - [139] Thanks for the remarks. im studying the methods behind mineral costs for ship. I hope to have some numbers for the ships as far as cost and required minerals. It is probably going to take me a while to full understand the methods behind CCP's madness. No offence to CCP of course. In addition I will make re referance sheet for people to look at the exact changes that I have done stat wise for the ships.
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2008.01.09 18:12:00 - [140] The Changes to the base ships. Tech 2 resistance bonuses +15% and +12.5% to the races main tank area. As in, Amarr and Gallente get it to their armor, while Minmatar and Caldari get it to their shields. Ship bonuses All ships get a bonus from their base ship with some minor exeptions (Artimus, Oblivion, Tsunami). All ships also gain a role and flagship skill bonus. They are labeled as such. Fitting Bonus All ships gain a fitting slot in either their mids or lows. All ships loose 100 power grid and 10 CPU. Ships also loose hard points for launchers and turrets, though the exact number and specific hard points lost are specific per ship. Stats Bonus All ships have a larger signature radius and slightly lower sensor capabilities. Their maximum targets number is reduced by one to 6 targets locked at once. After those blanket modifications each ship should be observed for its own unique bonuses and stats.
xStaRx	Posted - 2008.01.09 20:47:00 - [141] i'll add my 5 cent When T2 BS were annonced CCP WERY dissapointed me... No Next in Line CommanShip no REAL T2 resistance (i men real T2 HAC/Command like) So T2 Flagship should get FULL T2 resistance and apear in 2 types 1 DDealer (Next in Absolution line) 2 Supporter (think about next in Damnation line) and more all Flagship's CANNOT fit rail's/Beam's/CruiseMissileLancher's Close combatian only* :) that is my view of REAL T2 BattleShip PS. thry not to think what cost such and monster ;)
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2008.01.09 21:16:00 - [142] Well consider this. If i had designed the ships with full tech 2 resistances, the ships would be almost imposible to kill. ensuring that the ships have better resistances makes them tougher but not a wall. Their job is not to be uber gank platforms. They are fleet support ships. As such they come in two versions. The Frontline Command Ships, which is more for getting into the mix with other battleships and combat ready ships. And the second is the Theater command ship, more oriented toward fleet support and does not have the massive combat ability of the front line command ship or even a battleship. As far as the evolution of the Command Ship, in my opinion these ships do a better job than the command ship at supporting the fleet. The Requiem is not a carbon copy of the Absolution, given a new body, but rather an evolution of the concept of a command ship. The power of these ships is not in their solo capability but in their fleet. The fleet around them is going to be much more powerful with one of theses ships commanding the fleet. And that is the intention of the ships. With one of these ships in command of a fleet with a competent pilot, high sec POS assaults become a feasible venture for even the smallest of corperations. And even then the ship is not and can not replace what a standard battleship can do. The battleships is still going to be a better gank platform due to its cost, ease of fitting, and simplicity to skill for. The Flagship is not intended to be a replacement, but rather and adaptation for a more specific role. As far as limiting the exact weapons that a ship can fit, it is almost imposible by the current version of EVE. All anyone can do is encorage the pilot to fit one type over another.
Thargat Caldari North Star Networks Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.09 22:08:00 - [143] All the suggested ships should have atleast adv spaceship command as a requirement (I dunno if there's a mistype since I can see that spaceship command appears twice on some ships). Secondly it would be nice to see a variant of these with more role specific bonuses (say fleet-bonuses for probing, EW and so forth). otherwise a quite good idea, I'd love to go in a roaminggang with a couple of these (nanoed and polycarboned to insanity of course) There's only one sig that matters... and that's Radius.
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2008.01.09 23:40:00 - [144] I was considering doing some more specific fleet bonuses but nothing has struck me as a very systematic way of doing it. As of right now these ships are more oriented to ensuring a fleets survivability rather than their hunting ability. I agree that ships with the bonuses like E-War would be nice, but they would also have to be very closely ballanced. Some of the skills are mention twice because that is the method that eve uses for skill trees. They make no logical sence to me but thats they way they are done.
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2008.01.11 05:37:00 - [145] Bump trying to keep the topic on top. Thanks to everyone who commented.
ZiYauRen Gallente SDOD Security Sang Do Oligarchic Democracy	Posted - 2008.01.11 10:06:00 - [146] Hmmm... the ew mods seem to be going too far w/the concept here actually. A better way to take care of this might be to use an existing ship that is complimentary but has no current t2 version. Say black ops command ship based on the Myrmidon n such.
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2008.01.11 17:26:00 - [147] I would have to agree. I tried to get the ships to work with a new, and somewhat unique, bonus system for e-war. It became way to hard to balance the ships in and out of the group. The idea for a complementary ship for a fleet, like a e-war based recon battlecruiser would work well. But for these ships i have to agree that they have no buisness going into the electronics warfare sector. As for designing and making specifications for the battlecruiser recon ships, im currently trying to get the Flagship seen and hopefully implemented by CCP. Someone els can tackle those ships.
Kaydakulla Defur	Posted - 2008.01.12 20:37:00 - [148] I would like to say that this is a very good idea and more people should post here in support of it.
Sethile	Posted - 2008.01.12 22:51:00 - [149] This has been a pleasure to read. These ideas have been worth thought out and some considerable work has gone into them. I would like to add some constructive criticism, but after reading all 5 pages the best I can add is my support. I hope that this is read by the powers that be. The only improvement would be calling one of the Amarrian ships a Harlequin, in honour of Balor if this does indeed go ahead. Cheers
Rhatar Khurin Minmatar Sten Industries	Posted - 2008.01.12 23:11:00 - [150] Nice, Although i think the Apocalypse should be the Amarr flagship type because of it's history. _
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2008.01.13 01:16:00 - [151] I was considering that but one problem comes with making the flagship based off of the Tier 2 hulls. It steps squarely on the toes of the Murauders. That is something i want to avoid, a ship that dose prity much the same job (mission running) as the "ultimate" mission runner. Someone had sugested that the Caldari Flagship be the raven, but the same issue came up so i think is best to keep them in their own unique hull type.
Nova Fox	Posted - 2008.01.13 03:55:00 - [152] Edited by: Nova Fox on 13/01/2008 04:01:35 Have you thought adding in a field generator? something that makes a field based on the script inserted? Like reinforcement fields to add resistances repair fields to fix all those near or a recharger field or webber field for being more offensive or a a force field to give the gang a few extra seconds to get the screen loaded at a fleet battle. just my ideas for making something not run of the mill.
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2008.01.13 06:09:00 - [153] An interesting concept, but i think that would be more oriented to a module. For the ships as they are, they have the use of the warfare link modules. That will help in dealing with giving ships in its fleet better resistances and the like.
Nova Fox	Posted - 2008.01.14 05:04:00 - [154] what better way to expand thier fleet use with none other a additional situational field generator that can be deployed when the situation calls for it? getting bombarded bad and need to get out? force field push all the guys off of yours and get the heck out of there. everyone's hulls burining? repper field! need extra long range deploy the tactical net field and increase thier tracking and the sort.
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2008.01.14 05:31:00 - [155] As i said before, thats an awesome idea for a mod but not a ship function. These ships are to be used for bonuses to fleets and the like. These ships are supposed to make ones fleet more powerful and durable. A system to do as you propose is not in the ships abillites and would be completely out of the current version of EVE's realm.
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2008.01.15 05:02:00 - [156] bump looking for more people to comment on the subject and hopefully approve it. Please keep the responces comming.
Korran Minare Gallente Spaced Cowboys Dread Sovereign	Posted - 2008.01.15 15:46:00 - [157] double bump, i do like the idea of that field generator, making it another warfare link mod would probly be the best way to do it Originally by: Korran Minare what would you put on space pizza anyway????
Taki Kenirou	Posted - 2008.01.15 16:40:00 - [158] The only thing I disagree with is that some have 3 warfare links role bonus. if they are advanced command ships, based on a hybrid of a BS size and the command form of the command ship, then they should all receive this bonus. example, why even put a command device on the Hyperion based ship if you have to sacrifice its ability to do anything with command processors in the mids. I would say make it a static role bonus, such as the command form version of the command ships. 3 warfare links strait up, and 99% reduction. otherwise, the Hyperion based one will just be a tech II ganking battleship. imagine a Megathron with better resistances than a Marauder.
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2008.01.15 17:04:00 - [159] As I have said, I like the idea of the bubble but it is more of a module than a ship, and is realy off topic for the concept here. Please by all means make a new thread based around this concept but please keep the discussion on topic. One of the major sticking points I had was trying to make the Flagships versetile while still keeping them centered in their roles. One way of doing this was to give them slightly different bonuses. For example, the gallente versions of the Flagships have two styles to them. There is the combat oriented "Frontline Command Ship" and the more logistics and rear guard "Theater Command Ship" As such they have to be more oriented for there respective places. The "Frontline Command Ship" is more of a combat and direct fire ship. It is designed to sit of the combat line with its fleet and slug it out with the enemy. As such it dose not have an electronics and support system that is as effective in the fleet support role. This is why these ships get a bonus oriented to combat and have a massive bonus to just one warfare link. But also realize that they are no more effective in combat as far as damage output than a standard battleship of the same hull class. The "Theater Command Ship" is more reliant on its supporting fleet to make sure it survives the encounter. More often than not I expect these ships to be in the rear of the lines making sure their fleet is more survivable and deadly in combat. These ships have, by simply putting all the warfare links on their ship, a much better and more effective combat value not only to themselves but to the fleet they support. Their main failure in combat is that they are not as powerful as a standard battleship in combat. If caught alone or with a small fleet they are vulnerable to being overrun. So in short th reason the two ships have different bonuses is to ballance them within the group, i would like people to use both for their intended purpose and not just one exclusively. A good point to make about the bonuses non the less.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.15 21:00:00 - [160] A thought about the "Frontline Command Ship", they are not as oriented to the command function as i think players would like. I think rather than giving them the same role bonus as the "Theater Command Ship", as in the ability to activate 3 warfare links at once, it should be changed on the role bonus so that they get 10% bonus to any warfare link they put on, as aposed to the current race specific version. So they are better at the overall command function but the "Theater Command Ship" remains the better overall Flagship.
Taki Kenirou	Posted - 2008.01.15 21:24:00 - [161] I actually apologize for the post. I was skimming so fast through the thread i misread the two classes of ships. I am on board with the idea.
Xangetzu Kenirou Gallente Southern Cross Incorporated	Posted - 2008.01.15 21:39:00 - [162] The only question i still have is what is your thought on the whole marauder thing. Now that they have established themselves as expensive PVE ships, they still offer the slug fest front line thing that it seems the font line tech II BS your suggesting does, with a slightly weaker tank as the resistances are not quite tech II. are we defining the difference as it having no secondary ability such as webbing, and slightly less firepower? or what. is there a way to make it more unique so that there is room for the marauder, and it does not make it completely, worthless.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.16 03:45:00 - [163] The difference between a Marauder and a "Frontline Command Ship" version of a Flagship is a rather important one. Marauders are an established ship in the universe of eve so there fore the Frontline Flagship has to work around it. Marauder are very mission oriented and, as far as I can tell PvP wise, they are extremely damage oriented. They do more damage and can deal with fast ships much better than the Frontline Flagship could ever hope to do. For missioning, they are probably second to none. I say probably because i have yet to fly one and try it for my self. Frontline Flagships on the other hand are more combat oriented versions of the Flagships. But their true job is still very much fleet support. The power of the ship is not oriented around its firepower but rather its tank and its support capabilities. Granted I have no way of quantifying the true difference between the two. But I think I have done a good job in making sure that the two ships are able to their own seperate jobs. Note that for missions the Marauder would be fare more capable of soloing the mission given the fallowing. The Marauders are capable of tanking specificly for the mission. The Marauder is also capable of dealing with ships via its web and other functions, the Frontline Flagship is incapable of doing this as effectively as a Marauder. So as far as missions go I belive a Marauder is the best for missioning.
Xangetzu Kenirou Gallente Southern Cross Incorporated	Posted - 2008.01.16 15:00:00 - [164] I agree with you and thinking about it i see the difference, but here is my worry. You may be able to achieve the same function as the marauder. if you think about it this way. A Deimos for example, 6 lows, tech II tank. repair, damage control, nano and explosive... fit the same tank on this flagship and you have 3 low slots to put damage on if you wanted to. The marauder, well it could do the same but have a much more insufficient tank. I am just concerned that it may not be used for its intended purpose. Again though I do like this idea. it is very intriguing. I think of a jacked up Eos or Astarte... and that to say the least sounds sexy. a machine with an impressive tank, coupled with a machine of impressive power, couple with other machines, their tech I variants, for extra damage, and of course or fellow recon, ceptor, and hac pilots. This makes for a fleet which can engage and defend at great efficiency.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.16 16:05:00 - [165] Here is the fundamental issue facing anyone designing a ship in EVE, you can not force a person to use a ship for its intended purpose, you can only influence the player to use it that way. I have been talking to people in game and they have made some suggestions to do just that. I am going to increase the bonus given by the ships to warfare links from 3% to 5%. They are supposed to be batter at the fleet job than command ships, I suppose I should make them so. Second i will be upping the bonus given to Frontline Command Ships from "10% to (race specific) warfare links" to "15% to warfare links". This should influence players to use the ships for command and control rather than Missioning. There is no way I can possibly prevent the Flagship from being used in Missions. I honestly hope it is, but used in the fassion of supporting Marauders in L5s. But if i was to try and prevent the Flagship from being used in missions i belive it would become so horribly crippled by highly restrictive fitting stats and ocward bonuses that no one would fly them. I'm trying to make a usable ship for EVE, not a one off special. Not to say anyone was suggesting anything of the sort.
Ceanthar Cerbera Minmatar Lone Gunmen	Posted - 2008.01.16 16:06:00 - [166] Edited by: Ceanthar Cerbera on 16/01/2008 16:08:27 Edited by: Ceanthar Cerbera on 16/01/2008 16:06:54 I dont really understand this need. Just seem like just another "uber-pvp" ship to me.. Nobody even seem to use command links anyway. Also the current command ships fill that role very well. Furthermore there are already "big command ships" in game. They are called; Carriers, Motherships and Titans edit: I would however welcome the ability to fit command modules on dreads (sacrificing either one weapon or the siege module if one chooses to fit it)
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.16 16:16:00 - [167] To be honest i was trying to make a ship that a small corperation could use in high sec for their command and control abilities. I don't see these as uber PvP ships, they may have good tanks but are not more dangerous than their Tier 3 base hulls. As for a purpose for these ships, i think they have a few. High sec POS takedowns, fleet command and control, evolution to the battleship (in the same way a command ship is for the battlecruiser), stepping stone for the future dreadnought and carrier pilots (in the same way assault ships and heavy assault ships are for battleships, a lot of the skills needed make the battleships much better), and giving a massive boost to combat fleets in small or large fleet battles.
Ceanthar Cerbera Minmatar Lone Gunmen	Posted - 2008.01.16 22:31:00 - [168] Originally by: Balor Haliquin To be honest i was trying to make a ship that a small corperation could use in high sec for their command and control abilities. I don't see these as uber PvP ships, they may have good tanks but are not more dangerous than their Tier 3 base hulls. As for a purpose for these ships, i think they have a few. High sec POS takedowns, fleet command and control, evolution to the battleship (in the same way a command ship is for the battlecruiser), stepping stone for the future dreadnought and carrier pilots (in the same way assault ships and heavy assault ships are for battleships, a lot of the skills needed make the battleships much better), and giving a massive boost to combat fleets in small or large fleet battles. Not sure I see why the current command ships dont fill that role? In fact people hardly seem to use the fleet command ships as it is. Why would they use another command ship for bossting of fleets if the current ships arent used at all? Lets face it people use the field command ships just because they are uber-pvp ships. The fate of the Eos proves this in a very significant way. Once they took away the 2 blasters it almost halfed in price (ie demand) because it no longer was uber-pvp. Now its in line with the other fleet ships and filling its role as fleet booster. And so noone use it. And looking at your proposed ships ideas they strike me as being the field command version. And as such they will be thought of and used as pvp-mobiles . Not as fleet ships.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.17 05:31:00 - [169] I am curious as to which version of the Flagships you are looking at. The very first ones are nothing but uber gank platforms, they have since been highly retooled.
Penelope Perminas	Posted - 2008.01.17 05:35:00 - [170] Wow, this an awseme idea. +1 for Devs to take note. Give this man a medal or a job in Iceland. I like the stepping stone approach of this betfore Captial ships. If you specialise in Cammand ships (or head down that path), this gives you something else to aspire to as well.
Ceanthar Cerbera Minmatar Lone Gunmen	Posted - 2008.01.17 14:17:00 - [171] Originally by: Balor Haliquin I am curious as to which version of the Flagships you are looking at. The very first ones are nothing but uber gank platforms, they have since been highly retooled. Ill agree that i havent been following the entire thread. Tbh I werent all that interested after reading the first ship layouts. Seeing the thread growing to 6 pages I still felt it was worth looking at. Took a look at the latest incarnation and they do look better. But. I still cant see what these ships add over the current commandships. Can you put it in a few gathered words why these ships are needed and why the job cant be done by the current command ships? And at a price of 500-800 million they fall very close to that of carriers (at least atm) so i wouldnt see them as something for small corporations. Also i wonder, is pos warfare really something for small corps to do? Also why would these ships be used over the current commandships? I mean since the current command ships (the "real" ones the fleet command) arent being used? (personally thats a problem with the command links in my view but still like to hear your opinion). Its not that Im totally against ideas like this. But I have a hard time seeing what role they will fill. Also I must object to the idea of assault ships being a stepping stone to bs. They are not. In fact cruiser is the last stepping stone before BS (you dont need battlecruiser to fly one). I can agree though that there is something missing between BS and dread/carrier. Although you now have the marauder that could be viewed as filling that hole. But I still cant escape the feeling that the current fleet command ship is doing its job and doing exactly what the command ships are meant to do.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.17 18:27:00 - [172] Fist of all I would like to thank you for giving me a good argument on the subject. POS warfare: I think one of the areas that these ships could help any fleet take down a POS because of the bonuses it gives to the fleet and the added benefit of a battleship tank. As for smaller corperations and alliance it gives them the option of attempting to take down a POS. Ships like the Flagship also make High sec POS take downs a more viable and practical operation, giving the ships in their fleets a better chance of surviving against such targets. An Evolution to the Command Ship: These ships would be an evolution to the command ships currently in the game. What would they do better? They are far more command and control oriented than the current command ships. They are also based on larger hulls than the original command ships. I belive that makes them an evolution of both the Command Ship and the Battleship. Another item to consider is the fact that the Flagship has a bonus that is given to the fleet regardless to weather or not there are any Warfare Link Modules attached, the command ship does not do this. Cost: True a Flagship would cost close to 750mil isk, but it is not nearly as much as a carrier or dreadnought. The overall cost to train, build, and outfit a Dreadnought at least is running close to 1.5 to 2 billion isk. The Flaaship would at max (by my estimation) run a person only 900mil to skill, build, and fit. And thats assuming rigs and all tech to fittings. Flagship Verses Carrier: The carrier is a big combat/logistics/command ship. It dose suffer some drawbacks that the Flagship does not. Carriers are so far not allowed in high sec space, and thus are not able to command. Carriers do not get the command ship role bonus, which Flagships do. And lastly carriers do not get a ship based bonus to any and all ships in their fleet, the Flagship does. So as far as command and control are concerned, the Flagship can do a much better job. Replace or Enhance: As far as my experience with command ships has gone, though it may be very limited, they seem to be nothing more than enhanced Battlecruisers out to gank everything they come across. Even the field command ships seem to be used toward this end. I am trying to make a ship that will be used by the fleet commander to aid in his fleets ability to deal with the functions of war. To that end i have tried to give the ships bonuses that encourage the use of warfare links. And even reduced the ability of players to fit the ships out as solo gank platforms. For what they are intended for and what players will use them for is beyond my control. I can only hope that commander swill see the value of these ships for what they are designed for.
Ceanthar Cerbera Minmatar Lone Gunmen	Posted - 2008.01.17 21:34:00 - [173] Edited by: Ceanthar Cerbera on 17/01/2008 21:35:40 Ok. Ill try and give a more constructive take on this. First off I agree that the current commandships are broken. The field command ship is are used as big HACs and the fleet command isnt used at all. But I dont necessarily view it as a problem with the ships, rather a problem with the warfare links. So my suggestion is first to reconsider the links. I have been over and over this. The the whole idea of having racial links is abit off to me. Why not make the links general purpouse links instead. Also more links should be available for more modulation and specialization. Breaking it down I can see a number of links; Hull (amount, resistance) Armor (amount, resistance, repair amount, repaire cap use, repair duration) Shield (amount/recharge, resistance, boost amount, boost cap use, boost duration) Capacitor (size, recharge) Sensors/Targeting (sens str, targeting range, resolution, signature size) Movement (agility, speed, boost amount, cap use) These are only examples. But I do feel these are the areas the links should be working (ie enhancing ship inherent attributes). Things that enhance modules other than repairers/boosters and ab/mwd I dont feel are necessary. (ir no ecm boost or dampeners or what ever). And not necessarily race specific at all. Or a limited variant (like support for one specific link like armor res for amarr, boost amount for gallente, shield res for caldari and shield boost for minmatar or similar). I think changing the links would make a difference when it comes to people using them. they must not only feel that they give a reasonable boost. They should also be fair to everyone and flexible enough to give everyone the same chance at niche their fleet. Now the ships. The current command ships are doing exactly what they are ment to do. That is the fleet command ship. Thery have strong defenses, limited weaponry to allow for the links. They are not dmg dealers and are not supposed to be. They fill a supportive role and are there to boost and coordinate the fleet. Perhaps, being a battle cruiser they arent sturdy enough. But they still can take some beating. Also having less signature radius they take less dmg than bs making them stronger than they might appear. So to the field ship. For sure we dont need another field commandship that is going to be used as a big HAC. I hope we can agree to that? As such there is only need for one ship. Further it should build on the same concept as the fleet command. Ie a big fleet command ship. Or if you like the fleet command ship, opening for the current commandships to become the wing command ships or similar. (with the availability for more versatile command links this could make for truly powerful boosted fleets). So what should this ship do? Looking at the fleet command ships we get some clues. Primary - boost the fleet trough warfare links Secondary - Be sturdy and tough to make for a recilient command platform Tertiary - Provide supportive fire So we many high slots for the links. this goes agains (3) but could be solved by the new direction of limited guns with large dmg bonus. So we could maybe have 3 weapon slots with 100% dmg. Freeing up 5 slots for add-on links or other gang assist modules. Also it should free up pwg and pcu so that you can fit all the links. Weapons should also be set for fairly long distance since the ship is not primarily for the front battles. Also they should have a supportive role. And as such should not be the main damagers. But maybe it could have the dmg output as a tier 3 bs. Or perhaps slightly less to avoid overpowering the ship. (especially since it will have the strong tank) Sturdy is self explainatory. A reasonable HP and resistance. As for a fixed fleet bonus as bonus im not enterily sure. It seems a bit off to me. But it would depend on the bonus i guess. So what do you think?
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.18 00:49:00 - [174] First off I agree totally that the last thing EVE needs is a bigger HAC. We have all seen what the Field Command Ship is really used for and what its capabilities are. For the way the Warfare Links work, I really think they do need a rework. They seem to provide very little incentive on their own to putting them on a ship. Only on ships that give the bonuses do they really come into their own. As for what the modules should be and how they work, that is a discussion for a different thread, which I would be happy to join. On to your proposal, now i mean no harm by anything here just retort and constructive criticism. The setup you suggest for the ships as far as requirements is almost exactly what the current designs are capable of. With few exceptions to the exact method of the ship in question they are all Command oriented/good tank/long range. They do the same if not less damage than the base hull they are based off of. Your deigns remind me of the marauders that I'm trying to avoid making obsolete. The method you used is almost exactly the concept behind the Marauders, High damage from a few guns/good tank. One of the main reasons that I did two versions of the same class of ship was because of ensuring there was diversity in the ships. One version of the ship is not going to be able to fill all of the roles that the ship might be tasked with doing. So to ensure that players have options on what the ships can do, and instead of trying to make a Flagship that dose everything, I made two more specialized versions of the ships. For what they are they both are not that much more impressive than the Hull they are based off of with one exception. Their command ability makes them more powerful when the player equips it. Which fills all the roles you have put forth. There are some changes that I am going to do to them, one of which I am almost certain of is increasing the bonus that all the ships get for their race specific fleet bonus from 3% per level to 5% per level. Second I'm going to change the role bonus on the Frontline Command Ship to 10% to warfare link modules instead of the race specific ones. Overall very good criticisms of the ships so far.
Ceanthar Cerbera Minmatar Lone Gunmen	Posted - 2008.01.18 10:36:00 - [175] Edited by: Ceanthar Cerbera on 18/01/2008 10:41:54 The problem i see with having two different types of ships is that the more dmg oriented, the one you call front line ship, is the one that people are gonna use. Lets face it people like being the one on the killmail and so they want to do all the dmg them selfs. The number of logistics pilots you see in the game reflects this fact and so does the popularity of the fleet command ships. That is why I think its a problem having two versions of the flagship. If you do have two versions the should be equal in role and just offer different weapon platforms. One short range and one long range for each race (or in the case of caldari missiles and rails). Also I suggsted the marauder idea just to avoid the case of people just fitting all their high slots with weapons and leave the links out. That is what you see in game atm with the command ships and the low level of multilateral thinking you have from most players in this game would result in the same usage of the flagships. Using 3 weapon slots for weaponry you will have a average dmg output and as such not compete with the four slots of the marauders. Also it will force people to fill those remaining 5 slots with supportive modules instead of weaponry. The ships will have the same pre-req as marauders so why not use the same weapon system?
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.18 16:42:00 - [176] By copying the Marauders in form i am afraid that the Flagship will fallow in function. As in the flagship will replace the Marauder in the mission running buisness. Limmiting the ability of players to fit modules is by far one of the most frustraiting and annoying things i have ever seen in eve. Versatility is survivability. As for the short range and long range versions of the ships for each race i would like to point out that 3 of the races, their versions have different ways of doing damage. For the Amarr; their second ship is a torpedo boat, for the Caldari; they get a rail and missle boat, for the Gallente; they get a rail and a drone boat. I have been trying to think of something creative for the Minmatar but nothing has come to mind. So the ship varients are much more than, one has more damage output than the other. In fact when you get down to it, neither varient really has more damage output than the other. They both get one for of a damage bonus, and thats it. I think highly restricting the hard points and then giving the ship a massive bonus to damage makes little sence. It seems to me that all it would be doing is threatening the exsitance of the Marauders.
Ceanthar Cerbera Minmatar Lone Gunmen	Posted - 2008.01.18 19:37:00 - [177] Try this then. A kind of siege module-light. Ive seen another suggestion here on forums that works in the line of creating a new "light dread". One problem of course is the fact that the siege module is high slot. But there shouldnt be much reason the light module could not be midslot. Possibly a totally new ship model could be used in that case also. I still must say though that one ship is enough. And from the looks of it others have said the same in the post. There really is no need for two kinds of ships. Also i cant see how these ships would treathen marauders. They wont have tractor beam bonus or the extended cargo bay. And i still maintain that it would be a mistake to allow the ships the possibility of a full weapon rack. 5-6 weapon mounts at most.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.18 22:21:00 - [178] Flagship are not meant to be "Light Dreadnoughts" in my design. That is a topic for another discussion. The risk of any ship being used fore something other than its intended purpose is a risk that every ship has when it is created. For a light dreadnought and associated modules are a little more complex than theses ships were ever intended to be. Also, as a light dreadnought it would potentialy out damage even a Marauder, but most certainly a standard Battleship. All things considered and adding in what the flagship already dose , I think that the ships would become a seficiantly more dangerous ship than either of intend to have. As for having two versions, this is assuming a lot from CCP. If they are ever incorperated into the game. And honestly, if I had to dump the two version idea, I would take the bonuses from both and try and make some sort of ship out of that. But working with the Amarr ones, because I know Amarr best, all I have come up with are ships that are super nerfed or amazing too good. I am working on the next version of the ships and i can tell you this, i have removed more hard point for most of the ships. I will probably have them up by monday.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.20 04:14:00 - [179] CALDARI Name: Tsunami Hull: Rokh Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Kaalakiota As befits one of the largest weapons manufacturers in the known world, Kaalakiota's ships are very combat focused. Favoring the traditional Caldari combat strategy, they are designed around a substantial number of weapons systems, especially missile launchers. However, they have rather weak armor and structure, relying more on shields for protection. Cladari Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Missile Launcher rate of fire per lever, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Points per level, 5% bonus to Missile velocity per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 10% bonus to Warfare Link module effectiveness Fitting slots: 8/7/5/2 Power Grid: 14900 CPU: 770 Hard points: 1 Turret/7 Launcher Shield HP: 9000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6500 Armor Resistances: 60/10/25/45 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 115m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Caldari Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Caldari Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery III --> Weapon Upgrade V Name: Oni Hull: Rohk Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Ishukone Most of the recent designs off their assembly line have provided for a combination that the Ishukone name is becoming known for: great long-range capabilities and shield systems unmatched anywhere else. Caldari Battleship Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range per level, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Siege Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, activate 3 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8/6/6/2 Power Grid: 14900 CPU: 770 Hard points: 7 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 9000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6750 Armor Resistances: 60/10/25/45 Hull HP: 7250 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Caldari Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Caldari Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Siege Warfare Link V
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.20 04:17:00 - [180] GALLENTE Name: Athena Hull: Hyperion Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Duvolle Labs Duvolle Labs manufactures sturdy ships with a good mix of offensive and defensive capabilities. Since the company is one of New Eden's foremost manufacturers of particle blasters, its ships tend to favor turrets and thus have somewhat higher power output than normal. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turrets damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Armor Hit Points per level, 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret falloff per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 10% bonus to Warfare Link module effectiveness Fitting slots: 8/5/7/2 Power Grid: 15650 CPU: 590 Hard points: 7 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 7000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8350 Armor Resistances: 60/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8650 Velocity: 130m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Gallente Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Gallente Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery III --> Weapon Upgrade V Name: Artimus Hull: Hyperion Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: CreoDron As the largest drone developer and manufacturer in space, CreoDron has a vested interest in drone carriers. While sacrificing relatively little in the way of defensive capability, the Artimus can chew its way through surprisingly strong opponents - provided, of course, that the pilot uses top-of-the-line CreoDron drones. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 10% bonus to drone Hit Points and Damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Armor Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Information Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, activate 3 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8/6/6/2 Power Grid: 15650 CPU: 590 Hard points: 7 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 7000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8500 Armor Resistances: 60/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8500 Velocity: 130m/s Drone Bay: 125m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 125 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Gallente Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Gallente Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Information Warfare Link V
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.20 04:20:00 - [181] MINMATAR Name: Conflagration Hull: Maelstrom Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Boundless Creations Boundless Creation's ships are based on the Brutor tribe's philosophy of warfare: simply fit as much firepower onto your ship as possible. Defense systems and electronics arrays therefore tend to take a back seat to sheer annihilative potential. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret arte of fire per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Signature Radius reduction per level, 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret falloff per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 10% bonus to Warfare Link module effectiveness Fitting slots: 8/6/6/2 Power Grid: 20900 CPU: 630 Hard points: 8 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 7500 Shield Resistances: 15/60/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8000 Armor Resistances: 70/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 120m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Minmatar Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Minmatar Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Electronics V -> Gunnery III --> Weapon Upgrade V Name: Halberd Hull: Maelstrom Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Core Complexion Core Complexion's ships are unusual in that they favor electronics and defense over the "lots of guns" approach traditionally favored by the Minmatar. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret arte of fire per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Signature Radius reduction per level, 3% bonus to Skirmish Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, activate 3 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8/7/5/2 Power Grid: 20900 CPU: 630 Hard points: 6 Turret/5 Launcher Shield HP: 8150 Shield Resistances: 15/60/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 7350 Armor Resistances: 70/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 120m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Minmatar Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Minmatar Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Skirmish Warfare Link V
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.21 17:43:00 - [182] bump Changes from previous version of the ships Corrected a stat error in the minmatar ships when it came to their drone bay Removed hard points from all ships except the Requiem. So now all ships can have a maximum of 8 weapons on a ship. Changed Frontline Command Ship role bonus to read "10% bonus to warfare link effectiveness" Changed all ships Flagship bonus from "3% bonus to race specific fleet modifier" to "5% bonus to race specific fleet modifer" Just so you guys know what happned.
Kevalan Cruentus	Posted - 2008.01.21 17:51:00 - [183] Make it 5 cmd modules on the fleet ships, and allow three on the non-fleet ships. Take more hardpoints off the fleet ships and make em harder. =) my 2c
Ceti Lomax Minmatar Encina Technologies Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2008.01.21 18:17:00 - [184] Nice work Balor I can see you have put a lot of effort into these proposed new ships. For what it's worth, here is my two cents on how flag ships should work: - Something is needed to differential these ship more from Command ships and from other T2 Battleships. - I suggest that only 1 Flagship is required per race. - damage output should be nerfed. Maybe only 4 turrets or bays per ship. - Fleet command attributes should be enhanced. Allow 1 warfare link module per Flagship level (up to 5). - Add a role bonus of %10 effectivness to warfare link modules. - Add a unique role bonus. Something like the ability to use warfare link modules while cloaked, or warfare link modules affect any gang member in system, not just in grid. - This ship should be the definitive ship to have when leading a gang, but be relatively week for missioning or solo combat. (we've got other ships to do that). Just my two cents. Fire Seeks Fire ... Namtz'aar K'in
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.21 19:02:00 - [185] Interesting ideas, i am completely against reducing the number of hard points any more than they are now. I feel that if the ships had any less turrets or launchers they would not be able to even defend themselves effectively. Nor would they be able to contribute more to a combat situation. The idea of making them more fleet oriented must be looked at with caution. It would be very easy to make the ships so powerful in that manner that the ship and its associated fleet would become almost indestructable. Im very hesitant on reducing the number of varients. I have a hard time trying to figure out how to make the two varients advantages and disadvatages work in on ship without becoming a ship with a massive amount of bonuses and drawbacks. As far as missioning is concerned, these ships would be no better if not slightly worse than a standard tier 3 battleship. I will work on a single flagship design that dose the job of both the Frontline and Theater Command ship.
Ceanthar Cerbera Minmatar Lone Gunmen	Posted - 2008.01.22 13:06:00 - [186] Originally by: Ceti Lomax Nice work Balor I can see you have put a lot of effort into these proposed new ships. For what it's worth, here is my two cents on how flag ships should work: - Something is needed to differential these ship more from Command ships and from other T2 Battleships. - I suggest that only 1 Flagship is required per race. - damage output should be nerfed. Maybe only 4 turrets or bays per ship. - Fleet command attributes should be enhanced. Allow 1 warfare link module per Flagship level (up to 5). - Add a role bonus of %10 effectivness to warfare link modules. - Add a unique role bonus. Something like the ability to use warfare link modules while cloaked, or warfare link modules affect any gang member in system, not just in grid. - This ship should be the definitive ship to have when leading a gang, but be relatively week for missioning or solo combat. (we've got other ships to do that). Just my two cents. This is pretty much what Ive been saying also, more or less. I could see something like this working. Only problem is that the ship bonus would overlap the link bonus. But I still think warfare links should be changed according to what I said earlier. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Large energy Turret damage per level, 5% bonus to armor Resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% reduction to Large energy turret capacitor use, 5% bonus to fleet members armor hitpoint per level, activate 1 extra warfare lin module per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 15% bonus to effectiveness of Armored Warfare Links module Fitting slots: 8/5/7/2 Power Grid: 20900 CPU: 550 Hard points: 6 turrets Shield HP: 7000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 9000 Armor Resistances: 60/20/25/35s Hull HP: 8000 Velocity: 115m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3s Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6375 Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 80km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Radar 22 Signature Radius: 480m Scanner Resolution: 85 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Fusion 8 Caldari Battleship Bonus: 10% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range per level, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Points per level, 10% large hybrid turret optimal range per level, activate 1 extra warfare lin module per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 15% bonus to Siege Warfare Link module effectiveness Fitting slots: 8/6/6/2 Power Grid: 14900 CPU: 770 Hard points: 5 Turret/ 5 Launcher Shield HP: 9000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 7000 Armor Resistances: 60/10/25/45 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Gallente Battleship Bonus: +5% large hybrid damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's armor repair amount per level, +50m3 drone bay per level, activate 1 extra warfare lin module per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, +15% information warfare link effectivenes. Fitting slots: 8/6/6/2 Power Grid: 15650 CPU: 590 Hard points: 6 Turret Shield HP: 7500 Shield Resistances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8500 Armor Resistances: 60/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8500 Velocity: 130m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 125 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.22 20:01:00 - [187] The ship designs which you have put forth are extremely powerful. Not in th respect of DPS, but the shier tank these ships are going to be capable of, and by the nature of warfare links, be able to give to the fleet they are commanding. It would not be hard to see ships with tech 2 fittings with tanks that have near 95% resistances, and those with innate armor bonuses to have close to 98%. My math is not 100% correct because I do not know the exact mechanism that CCP uses to calculate such things. My logic however is the fallowing for the Amarr. A Requiem with max skills for tanking and to pilot the ship, not unreasonable, with 3x Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane IIs, plus 5x Passive Defence Armored Warfare Links. To my calculations that equils aproximately 99%EM 97.5%Explosive 97%Kinetic 97%Thermal. That make a tank on a ship that is very hard to beat even with a fleet pounding it. Second problem that I desperately want to avoid is the huge amount of bonuses that your ship deigns have. One real easy way to make sure a ship is ballanced is to make the bonus list short and simple. You have 7 bonuses per ship, some Capital ship do not have that many. Also the fleet bonuses do not match what CCP has show to be the presidence for each race. That being Amarr have cap recharge, Gallente have armor hit points, Caldari have shield hit points, and Minmatar have signature radius reduction. I do not mean to sound like I am trying to flame you it is simply that I feel you designs are very powerful.
Ceanthar Cerbera Minmatar Lone Gunmen	Posted - 2008.01.23 12:14:00 - [188] Edited by: Ceanthar Cerbera on 23/01/2008 12:14:51 Originally by: Balor Haliquin Also the fleet bonuses do not match what CCP has show to be the presidence for each race. That being Amarr have cap recharge, Gallente have armor hit points, Caldari have shield hit points, and Minmatar have signature radius reduction. This is wrong. Look at the different commandlinks and you see that they are Amarr (Armored warfare) - armor resistance, repair boost cycletime, and repair boost energy reduction Caldari (Siege warfare) - shield resistance, shield boost enrgy reduction, shield amount Gallente (Information warfare) - sensor strength, range of EW modules, strength of EW modules Minmatar (Skirmish warfare) - Reduce signature radius, increase AB/MWD boost amount, decrease AB/MWD cap need Furthermore the Caldari ships have shield resist bonus (Moa, Ferox, Drake, Rokh) Amarr ships have armor resistance bonus (Prophecy, Maller, Abbadon) and the Augoror share the armor amount with the Damnation Gallenteships have armor repair amount bonus (Myrmidon, Brutix, Hyperion) And drone bonuses (Vexor, Myrmidon, Dominix, Eos) Minmatar have shield boost amount (Cyclone, Maelstrom) Also the ships have certain qualities shared troughout the ships. Amarr have their armor as main tank and the most armor hp and low slots as a result. Caldari have shield as main tank, the most shield and many midslots. Gallente Have no main tank per say. The use a rmor repair amount bonus or none at all, they do have the biggest hull hp of all races. Minmatar have small signatures and fast ships and a jack of all trades (some ship use shield others armor). There are other qualities also. The c=mmandships have as special ability Amarr - armor hp amount (wich it shares with the Augoror) Caldari - Just builds on the Ferox shield resist Gallente - Armor boost amount and drone bay Minmatar - Builds on the shield boost of cyclone As for the Amarr capacitor bonus it is a weapon dmg bonus!? It sounds strange but in reality it is similar to a rate of fire or dmg bonus since it allows for more sustained weapon usage. So it is not more of a "ship" or "race" bonus than the many minmatar ships that have rate of fire. Wether weapon bonuses should be included in warfare link is a well asked question. Views might differ here but my personal belief is that weapon bonuses should not be included. But I can agree with you that my examples might be excessive. But I have also stated that I really dont see a need for more commandships in the game. But if you really feel the need for a flagship it should be special. Your examples just arent that,Im sorry. Like you say it might be hard to find an acceptable middle ground. People will never accept a "real" commandship since noone wants to be that passive role. People want to gank. The supportive role that command ships have, and should have, means people wont be interested unless they can fit a full rack of weapons. I (and more with me it would seem) dont think the ships should be able to fit a full rack of weapons. As for the actual bonuses I put out theyre just examples. Maybe some could be removed. two t1 bonuses, two t2 bonuses and 2 role bonuses seem to be the norm. Although motherships have 9. But then again carriers and motherships are the "big commandships". Albeit without the specialized command bonus of the commandships Aeon Amarr Carrier Skill Bonuses: 50% bonus to Capital Energy and Armor transfer range per level 5% bonus to all Armor resistances per level 99% reduction in CPU need for Clone Vat Bay 99% reduction in CPU need for Warfare Link modules 99% reduction in CPU need for Projected Electronic Counter Measures modules 99% reduction in CPU need for Tactical Logistics Reconfiguration modules Can deploy 3 additional Fighters per level Can fit 1 additional Warfare Link module per level 200% bonus to Fighter control range Immune to all forms of Electronic Warfare
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.23 16:34:00 - [189] I would like to point out that where i got the concept for the fleet bonuses was not based on the Warfare Link Modules at all, but instead from each race's Titan. I understand what each race specializes as far as Warfare Link Modules are concerned. Im sorry i forgot to specify where i got the fleet bonuses that ships get. And as far is that is concerned the bonuses fallow the presidence for the race. One of the major issues with giving the flagships the bonus of having 1 additional active warfare link and a bonus to the effectiveness of the link is that they will be the absolute best at the job. Im not sure that is what CCP wants or EVE needs. Limiting the number of warfare links that can be active but making them better allows the ship to be more versitile in a dynamic combat situation. A reduction or bonus to cap use by no means means a bonus to rate of fire. They are two seperate bonuses which have completely different consoquences. An ROF bonus will increase the DPS of a ship but also eat up capacitor faster because of the increased rate of fire. Cap reduction only servers to ensure that cap use is a little more stable and the cap can last longer. Their is no increased damage rate from this. So therefore cap usage is a reduction in the cost of a weapon system not a bonus to its damage. Just because you may be able to fire the weapons for a more sustained period of time dose not make the weapons more powerful. It is the unfortunate truth that any ship that is ever made will have its fans and critiques. I think that EVE could use a ship that specilizes in the command role, is allowed in high sec, and is based of a battleship chassie. But again that is my opinion. I would like to gank, but in combat i would rather asure the fell victory rather than have a personal kill and have my fleet be completely destroyed. I can honestly say that i belive that these ship have a place in EVE. I can honestly see what you mean when you say that you think their is no place for a bigger command ship. You raise some very valid points. But i am trying to make an entire class of ships and trying to ballance them with the game mechanics and players styles, not to say you are not trying to do the same. Even then, realize that all this may be a fools earned. It is still up to CCP to look at this an do something with it. I was thinking of an idea to make them even less gank oriented, by giving all the ships a -25% to Large Turret Tracking.
Seetesh Caldari Imperial Reseach	Posted - 2008.01.24 00:10:00 - [190] Signed, i love the idea of the flagship. I hope ccp takes notice.
Nemtar Nataal	Posted - 2008.01.24 08:52:00 - [191] Edited by: Nemtar Nataal on 24/01/2008 08:52:41 Originally by: Rjaiajik Kajvoril It probably would make the command ship redundant if the flagship was done as intended however this would make fleet combat more interesting as it would make the market value of the ships drop, this means more people would jump at the chance to grab one because let's face it, a tech two ship is always wanted. ... To protect the roles of the diffrent ships, then maybe CCP should consider that certent shots in a fleet could only be filled by a few ships. This is the current command structure (from what i remember): Fleet Commander Wing Commander Squard Commander So what if the position of the fleet commander and the wing commander was limited to specific ships? It would play with the over all theam of the game, cause you would need more advanced command modules to keep track of all the members in the fleet and the diffrent bonuses bieng delegated. A ship command structure could look somthing like this: <Ship> - <Fleet position> Battlecruiser - Wing Commander Carreier - Wing Commander Commandship - Wing Commander, Fleet commander Mothership - Wing commander, Fleet Commander Flagship - Fleet Commander Titan - Fleet Commander (why only this, well there added gang bonus is so big that there potential is to great if you get more then one titan gang bonus).
Buyerr	Posted - 2008.01.24 15:21:00 - [192] need another role... but would really like to see the hac type bs-... could give it 4 weaponslots and let it use cap seize weapon, make it a cap ship killer I declare war on stupidity
Kerfira University of Caille	Posted - 2008.01.24 19:03:00 - [193] While the idea is interesting...... ....it is first of all a solution looking for a problem. Secondly, and far more important, it'll create inflation! Not monetary inflation, but feature inflation! One of the most common mistakes by MMOG developers is that they want their stuff to be nber, and instead of making them unique/special in some way, they simply go and make them better than what is there already. This is VERY bad for any MMOG, and CCP is not immune to doing it either. Putting in better stuff means that the stuff that just got superseded will not get used, so they'll have to get buffed at some point. Their dev's want them to be nber so they over-buff them, leading to a feature death-spiral. The same for these. Looking at the suggested ships, they're clearly better than anything else their size in space. They're formidable battleships in themselves, and better than command ships in a fleet command role. So while the OP has put a lot of work into this, he hasn't got anything remotely like a small clue about how to balance features in a MMOG! Whenever you add something beneficial, generally you have to make some other thing deficient. These ships don't have ANY disadvantages! Implementing too-good things, like these ships, are one of the things that eventually can lead to the death of a MMOG. So, I'd predict CCP wouldn't consider something like this, and rightly so for the good of the game! Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.25 00:53:00 - [194] Wow, that was increadibly harsh sir. I would like people to suggest ways that they could be changed and not simply say that theses ships are completely overpowered. I would have to disagree with you on the point of the Flagship being far better than anything els in the area of tech 2 battleships. The Marauders out damage the Flagship by a rather significant amount. The Flagships may or may not be able to out tank the Marauders but I really have no real world way of testing that. A quick question have you looked at the most recent versions of the ships. They are significantly different and restricted by comparison. And there may yet be more reduction in power. Also consider that it is going to be very hard for any of the ships to fit a full rack of weapons systems on the ships because of the reduced fitting stats. I am no expert on MMORPGs but I would appreciate a little less in the way calling me a complete fool for balancing and design. I am meerly putting forth an idea. As for the Flagships job, I can see them as more than just command ships but not as uber gank platforms. They are simply ill suited for the role of solo gank. The base hulls are for more effective and cheeper. I will probably be reducing the fitting stats and putting in more disadvantages in a future version. But I would rather not throw some random modifier on the ships and not even bother to see if it works for what I intend it to do.
Thargat Caldari North Star Networks Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.25 01:08:00 - [195] Give them little or very weak offensive capabilities (except for a small racial boost) and implement some good bonuses to remote tracking links and other support features. Lower the resists (so their more in line with ships of the same size). But boost their initial HP by a very large amount so that they'r really slow to kill (this would need a lowering of the shield recharge to prevent passive tank ala faction rattlesnake). And give them some nice static (built in) gangbonuses wich are not included in their gangmodule bonus. These should be very specific ships and not something people swing around for small gang pvp (like the commandships are used today). There's only one sig that matters... and that's Radius.
Kerfira University of Caille	Posted - 2008.01.25 09:05:00 - [196] Originally by: Balor Haliquin I would like people to suggest ways that they could be changed and not simply say that theses ships are completely overpowered. ...doesn't matter much when you also say (in another post): Originally by: Balor Haliquin i am completely against reducing the number of hard points any more than they are now. Originally by: Balor Haliquin I would have to disagree with you on the point of the Flagship being far better than anything els in the area of tech 2 battleships. The Marauders outdamage the Flagship by a rather significant amount. Ehem.... just for example The Golem has an effective 8 weapon highslots, no damage modifiers other than the explosion velocity. Your caldari ship has: 8 weapon highslots, with a 25% RoF increase for 7 of them. The other ones are just as bad! How you can translate that to "Marauders outdamage the Flagship by a rather significant amount" is beyond me! Your statement is a flat-out lie! Originally by: Balor Haliquin quick question have you looked at the most recent versions of the ships. Yes. They're completely unbalanced! Originally by: Balor Haliquin ...reduced fitting stats. And another flat-out lie! What 'reduced fitting stats'? Your caldari ship: Fitting slots: 8/7/5/2 Power Grid: 14900 CPU: 770 CNR (can't really compare to Marauders because of bonuses): Fitting slots: 8/6/5/3 Power Grid: 9500 (!) CPU: 720 (!) Originally by: Balor Haliquin I am no expert on MMORPGs but I would appreciate a little less in the way calling me a complete fool for balancing and design. I'm an outspoken guy, and as I've just demonstrated, you idea IS completely foolish and overpowered! Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.25 16:52:00 - [197] First of all, theses ships are not based off of the tier 2 ships but off of the tier 3 ships. So comparing the fitting stats to a Caldari Navy Raven to a Rohk based ship is going to make them look completely unballanced. That ship and its missle bonuses im a little unsure of, it originaly had 6 Launchers hard points at one point, i'm not sure what explosion velocity or missle velocity dose exactly. I have said that i am against reducing the hard points on ships. but i have done it for all versions of the ships at least once since people suggested that. And considering how much people are complaining about it i am proabably going to do it again. Noting how some of the ships do the exact same damage as the Marauders and i thought i had avoided that. Noting how the missles for the launchers for the missle boats require a lot less to fit, i have to further reduce the fitting costs of the ships that use only missles. If some one could tell me exactly what the missle bonuses do to a ship then i can have an idea of what bonuses are needed where. I will try and get the new ships up soon.
Kerfira University of Caille	Posted - 2008.01.25 18:30:00 - [198] Point taken about the Raven, but lets look at it compared to the Rokh: Your Oni: Fitting slots: 8/6/6/2 Power Grid: 14900 CPU: 770 Rokh: Fitting slots: 8/6/5/3 Power Grid: 15000 CPU: 780 You've basically taken the Rokh, made a few cosmetic changes to the fitting stats, added a whole bunch of new uber stuff, and calls that balanced You even replaced the Rokh's 'Optimal Range' bonus (which is nice but not uber), and replaced it with one of THE top bonus', the RoF increase (making your 7 turrets the equivalent of having 8.75 turrets on a Rokh, plus the extra missile slot, and even giving an extra low slot for an RC2)!! And again, your still presenting a solution without a problem. Just creating something bigger and better isn't good game design! We already have command ships for this role, which they're very nicely balanced for. They give all the nice bonus to their fleet-mates, and have a good tank and defense against smaller ships. But when all is said and done, they're still BC's. So their advantage is countered by a similar sized disadvantage (ie. they're vulnerable to BS fire). Besides, command ships SHOULDN'T be able to defend themselves well. They're fleet support ships, and should in turn be supported and protected by their fleet. In that aspect your ships also fail since a command ship don't need to defend against battleships, but needs to defend against cruiser or less sized ships to break free of scramblers and warp out. Thus your heavy BS sized armament only serves one purpose, to make these BS sized HAC's, with extra resists and more firepower... This is why your designs are unbalanced and BAD. You just add nice stuff, but don't put in any similar sized disadvantages. Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.25 21:46:00 - [199] I am just making a suggestion for eve. It is a concept that I had for a ship. You don't have to like it or even believ that it is solving a problem at all. All I am doing is putting an idea forth for a ship class, nothing more or nothing less. I have also included a set of possible jobs that i might be able to do. As I said before I am working on the concept and will have some new designs up. If you think the designs are bad and useless, then why do you post here. I already understand you think they are useless and unballanced, there is no need to say it in every post.
Korran Minare Gallente Spaced Cowboys Dread Sovereign	Posted - 2008.01.25 22:03:00 - [200] me thinks this is still a superbly uber idea, i linked it in a post i made earler today to one of the devs in hopes that it will get noticed, also put a link in my sig Originally by: Korran Minare what would you put on space pizza anyway???? Support Flagships
Kerfira University of Caille	Posted - 2008.01.25 23:52:00 - [201] Originally by: Balor Haliquin I am just making a suggestion for eve. It is a concept that I had for a ship. You don't have to like it or even believ that it is solving a problem at all. All I am doing is putting an idea forth for a ship class, nothing more or nothing less. I have also included a set of possible jobs that i might be able to do. As I said before I am working on the concept and will have some new designs up. If you think the designs are bad and useless, then why do you post here. I already understand you think they are useless and unballanced, there is no need to say it in every post. There are some things that leads to good game design, and some that don't. Good game design generally come from these preconditions: 1. There is a niche in the game that is not filled 2. You create content for that niche 3. You make sure that content will not imping on other niche's 4. You make sure it is balanced, with proper advantages/disadvantages Bad game design generally comes from this: 1. "Wouldn't this be great!" You show quite a bit of inventiveness and if I can get you 'on' to how game design works best, then you'll probably make valuable contributions to EVE. I'm very direct when speaking, and if an idea is bad/useless/unbalanced, I use those exact words instead of ***footing around. Don't take my choice of words too seriously, but think about the points I make. Big and better actually isn't.... Originally by:** CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.26 16:55:00 - [202] Note these next few ship designs are not the ones I am going for, they are just to see if I am heading in the right direction. I may even completely remove some versions because the ships are becoming way to similer for their to be a second class. Guess people were right about that plan.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.26 16:55:00 - [203] AMARR Name: Requiem Hull: Abaddon Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Carthum Conglomerate Carthum ships are the very embodiment of the Amarrian warfare philosophy. Possessing sturdy armor and advanced weapons systems, they provide a nice mix of offense and defense. On the other hand, their electronics and shield systems tend to be rather limited. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Energy Turret damage per level, 5% bonus armor Resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Capacitor Recharge Rate per level, 5% bonus to Large Energy Turret capacitor cost per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 10% bonus to Warfare Link module effectiveness Fitting slots: 8/4/8/2 Power Grid: 20500 CPU: 530 Hard points: 7 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 6850 Shield Resistances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8750 Armor Resistances: 60/35/37.5/35 Hull HP: 8000 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 75m^3s Drone Bandwidth: 75 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6375 Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 80km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Radar 22 Signature Radius: 480m Scanner Resolution: 85 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Fusion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Amarr Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Amarr Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery III --> Weapon Upgrade V Name: Oblivion Hull: Abaddon Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Khanid Innovations In addition to robust electronics systems, the Khanid Kingdom's ships possess advanced armor alloys capable of withstanding a great deal of punishment. Generally eschewing the use of turrets, they tend to gear their vessels more towards close-range missile combat. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Torpedo velocity per level, 5% bonus to armor Resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Capacitor Recharge Rate per level, 3% bonus to effectiveness of Armored Warfare Links module per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, activate 3 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8/5/7/2 Power Grid: 19500 CPU: 530 Hard points: 0 Turret/6 Launcher Shield HP: 7350 Shield Resistances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8150 Armor Resistances: 60/20/25/35s Hull HP: 8000 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3s Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6375 Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 80km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Radar 22 Signature Radius: 480m Scanner Resolution: 85 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Fusion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Amarr Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Amarr Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Armored Warfare Link V
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.26 16:56:00 - [204] CALDARI Name: Tsunami Hull: Rokh Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Kaalakiota As befits one of the largest weapons manufacturers in the known world, Kaalakiota's ships are very combat focused. Favoring the traditional Caldari combat strategy, they are designed around a substantial number of weapons systems, especially missile launchers. However, they have rather weak armor and structure, relying more on shields for protection. Cladari Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Missile Launcher explosion velocity per lever, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Points per level, 5% bonus to Missile velocity per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 10% bonus to Warfare Link module effectiveness Fitting slots: 8/7/5/2 Power Grid: 13500 CPU: 750 Hard points: 0 Turret/6 Launcher Shield HP: 9000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6500 Armor Resistances: 60/10/25/45 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Caldari Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Caldari Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery III --> Weapon Upgrade V Name: Oni Hull: Rohk Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Ishukone Most of the recent designs off their assembly line have provided for a combination that the Ishukone name is becoming known for: great long-range capabilities and shield systems unmatched anywhere else. Caldari Battleship Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range per level, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Siege Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, activate 3 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8/6/6/2 Power Grid: 14700 CPU: 750 Hard points: 7 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 9000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6750 Armor Resistances: 60/10/25/45 Hull HP: 7250 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Caldari Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Caldari Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Siege Warfare Link V
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.26 16:58:00 - [205] GALLENTE Name: Athena Hull: Hyperion Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Duvolle Labs Duvolle Labs manufactures sturdy ships with a good mix of offensive and defensive capabilities. Since the company is one of New Eden's foremost manufacturers of particle blasters, its ships tend to favor turrets and thus have somewhat higher power output than normal. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Hybrid Turrets damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Armor Hit Points per level, 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret falloff per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 10% bonus to Warfare Link module effectiveness Fitting slots: 8/5/7/2 Power Grid: 15450 CPU: 570 Hard points: 7 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 7000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8350 Armor Resistances: 60/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8650 Velocity: 130m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Gallente Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Gallente Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery III --> Weapon Upgrade V Name: Artimus Hull: Hyperion Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: CreoDron As the largest drone developer and manufacturer in space, CreoDron has a vested interest in drone carriers. While sacrificing relatively little in the way of defensive capability, the Artimus can chew its way through surprisingly strong opponents - provided, of course, that the pilot uses top-of-the-line CreoDron drones. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 10% bonus to drone Hit Points and Damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Armor Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Information Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, activate 3 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8/6/6/2 Power Grid: 14150 CPU: 570 Hard points: 5 Turret/2 Launcher Shield HP: 7000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8500 Armor Resistances: 60/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8500 Velocity: 130m/s Drone Bay: 125m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 125 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Gallente Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Gallente Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Information Warfare Link V
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.26 17:00:00 - [206] MINMATAR Name: Conflagration Hull: Maelstrom Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Boundless Creations Boundless Creation's ships are based on the Brutor tribe's philosophy of warfare: simply fit as much firepower onto your ship as possible. Defense systems and electronics arrays therefore tend to take a back seat to sheer annihilative potential. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Projectile Turret arte of fire per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Signature Radius reduction per level, 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret falloff per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 10% bonus to Warfare Link module effectiveness Fitting slots: 8/6/6/2 Power Grid: 18500 CPU: 610 Hard points: 7 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 7500 Shield Resistances: 15/60/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8000 Armor Resistances: 70/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 115m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Minmatar Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Minmatar Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Electronics V -> Gunnery III --> Weapon Upgrade V Name: Halberd Hull: Maelstrom Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Core Complexion Core Complexion's ships are unusual in that they favor electronics and defense over the "lots of guns" approach traditionally favored by the Minmatar. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Projectile Turret arte of fire per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Signature Radius reduction per level, 3% bonus to Skirmish Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, activate 3 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8/7/5/2 Power Grid: 18100 CPU: 610 Hard points: 5 Turret/2 Launcher Shield HP: 8150 Shield Resistances: 15/60/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 7350 Armor Resistances: 70/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 115m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Minmatar Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Minmatar Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Skirmish Warfare Link V
Korran Minare Gallente Spaced Cowboys Dread Sovereign	Posted - 2008.01.28 14:22:00 - [207] start of the week bump to the top Originally by: Korran Minare what would you put on space pizza anyway???? Support Flagships
Frances Ducoir Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.01.28 21:55:00 - [208] only read until 3. page... if it was asked before, sorry. wouldnt these ships make BC based CS obsolete? imo this is bad because we already have lots of ships in eve which are barely used and have no role (eos, ferox, AFs, to a certain degree: ships which rely on RSD + TD, brutix, cyclone, prophecy, gallente eas + recons (totaly useless compared to ecm and since HICs have been introduced) snip Signiture remoted because it contained profanity - hutch
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.29 22:23:00 - [209] Not really considering that the current command ships and battlecruisers are used much more for gank than the command role that CCP intended. The Flagship is rapidly becoming less and less gank oriented.
Korran Minare Gallente Spaced Cowboys Dread Sovereign	Posted - 2008.01.30 19:27:00 - [210] bump back to the top Originally by: Korran Minare what would you put on space pizza anyway???? Support Flagships
Frances Ducoir Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.01.30 19:48:00 - [211] Edited by: Frances Ducoir on 30/01/2008 19:51:58 i would support this idea if they would be more support oriented. for example using the dominix as base ship, removing all its damage bonus and give it command bonus as well as bonus to t2 logistics and ew drones. for amarr it could be a mix of command bonus and remote rep bonus. caldari: shield transfer & command boni minmatar: dont know ^^ your proposed bonus like 5% cap recharge and signature reduction would make titans obsolete. a second aspect is, that all the gallente warfare links and boni have to be reviewed. they are barely used, they have almost no effect and are by far the worst of all. no one bothers to train for them. imo info warfare links should be scraped. new warfare links could be: warfare links for more damage (drone, missile, turret) or warfare links for drone stuff (speed, hp, damage/repair amount)). these ships should not be able to do any damage at all and they should have lots of prerequisite skills (Logistics V, BS V, CS IV). they would not make logistics and command ships obsolete because: - logistics are much faster to train for and used on alts most time... they will still be used. - command ships are being used as mission running ships & gank ships a lot snip Signiture remoted because it contained profanity - hutch
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.01 00:33:00 - [212] Sorry folks i have been very buissy at work and have not had the time to work on the concepts. I will be looking into what people have suggested and trying to get them into working concepts.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.04 17:28:00 - [213] bump I will have new versions of the ships up soon. Gonna probabaly remove the second class of ships because they two versions are rapidly becoming far too similar in spec and capabilities.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.06 17:39:00 - [214] AMARR Name: Requiem Hull: Abaddon Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Carthum Conglomerate Carthum ships are the very embodiment of the Amarrian warfare philosophy. Possessing sturdy armor and advanced weapons systems, they provide a nice mix of offense and defense. On the other hand, their electronics and shield systems tend to be rather limited. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Energy Turret damage per level, 5% bonus armor Resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Capacitor Recharge Rate per level, 5% bonus to Large Energy Turret capacitor cost per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 10% bonus to Warfare Link module effectiveness Fitting slots: 8/4/8/2 Power Grid: 20500 CPU: 530 Hard points: 7 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 6850 Shield Resistances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8750 Armor Resistances: 60/35/37.5/35 Hull HP: 8000 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 75m^3s Drone Bandwidth: 75 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6375 Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 80km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Radar 22 Signature Radius: 480m Scanner Resolution: 85 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Fusion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Amarr Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Amarr Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery III --> Weapon Upgrade V Name: Oblivion Hull: Abaddon Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Khanid Innovations In addition to robust electronics systems, the Khanid Kingdom's ships possess advanced armor alloys capable of withstanding a great deal of punishment. Generally eschewing the use of turrets, they tend to gear their vessels more towards close-range missile combat. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Torpedo velocity per level, 5% bonus to armor Resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Capacitor Recharge Rate per level, 3% bonus to effectiveness of Armored Warfare Links module per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, activate 3 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8/5/7/2 Power Grid: 19500 CPU: 530 Hard points: 0 Turret/6 Launcher Shield HP: 7350 Shield Resistances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8150 Armor Resistances: 60/20/25/35s Hull HP: 8000 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3s Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6375 Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 80km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Radar 22 Signature Radius: 480m Scanner Resolution: 85 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Fusion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Amarr Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Amarr Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Armored Warfare Link V
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.06 17:41:00 - [215] CALDARI Name: Tsunami Hull: Rokh Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Kaalakiota As befits one of the largest weapons manufacturers in the known world, Kaalakiota's ships are very combat focused. Favoring the traditional Caldari combat strategy, they are designed around a substantial number of weapons systems, especially missile launchers. However, they have rather weak armor and structure, relying more on shields for protection. Cladari Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Missile Launcher explosion velocity per lever, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Points per level, 5% bonus to Missile velocity per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 10% bonus to Warfare Link module effectiveness Fitting slots: 8/7/5/2 Power Grid: 13500 CPU: 750 Hard points: 0 Turret/6 Launcher Shield HP: 9000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6500 Armor Resistances: 60/10/25/45 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Caldari Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Caldari Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery III --> Weapon Upgrade V Name: Bastion Hull: Rohk Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Ishukone Most of the recent designs off their assembly line have provided for a combination that the Ishukone name is becoming known for: great long-range capabilities and shield systems unmatched anywhere else. Caldari Battleship Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range per level, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Siege Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, activate 3 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8/6/6/2 Power Grid: 14700 CPU: 750 Hard points: 7 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 9000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6750 Armor Resistances: 60/10/25/45 Hull HP: 7250 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Caldari Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Caldari Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Siege Warfare Link V
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.06 17:42:00 - [216] GALLENTE Name: Valkyrie Hull: Hyperion Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Duvolle Labs Duvolle Labs manufactures sturdy ships with a good mix of offensive and defensive capabilities. Since the company is one of New Eden's foremost manufacturers of particle blasters, its ships tend to favor turrets and thus have somewhat higher power output than normal. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Hybrid Turrets damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Armor Hit Points per level, 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret falloff per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 10% bonus to Warfare Link module effectiveness Fitting slots: 8/5/7/2 Power Grid: 15450 CPU: 570 Hard points: 7 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 7000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8350 Armor Resistances: 60/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8650 Velocity: 130m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Gallente Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Gallente Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery III --> Weapon Upgrade V Name: Artimus Hull: Hyperion Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: CreoDron As the largest drone developer and manufacturer in space, CreoDron has a vested interest in drone carriers. While sacrificing relatively little in the way of defensive capability, the Artimus can chew its way through surprisingly strong opponents - provided, of course, that the pilot uses top-of-the-line CreoDron drones. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 10% bonus to drone Hit Points and Damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Armor Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Information Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, activate 3 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8/6/6/2 Power Grid: 14150 CPU: 570 Hard points: 5 Turret/2 Launcher Shield HP: 7000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8500 Armor Resistances: 60/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8500 Velocity: 130m/s Drone Bay: 125m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 125 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Gallente Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Gallente Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Information Warfare Link V
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.06 17:44:00 - [217] MINMATAR Name: Conflagration Hull: Maelstrom Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Boundless Creations Boundless Creation's ships are based on the Brutor tribe's philosophy of warfare: simply fit as much firepower onto your ship as possible. Defense systems and electronics arrays therefore tend to take a back seat to sheer annihilative potential. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Projectile Turret arte of fire per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Signature Radius reduction per level, 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret falloff per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 10% bonus to Warfare Link module effectiveness Fitting slots: 8/6/6/2 Power Grid: 18500 CPU: 610 Hard points: 7 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 7500 Shield Resistances: 15/60/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8000 Armor Resistances: 70/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 115m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Minmatar Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Minmatar Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Electronics V -> Gunnery III --> Weapon Upgrade V Name: Halberd Hull: Maelstrom Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Core Complexion Core Complexion's ships are unusual in that they favor electronics and defense over the "lots of guns" approach traditionally favored by the Minmatar. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Projectile Turret arte of fire per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Signature Radius reduction per level, 3% bonus to Skirmish Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, activate 3 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8/7/5/2 Power Grid: 18100 CPU: 610 Hard points: 5 Turret/2 Launcher Shield HP: 8150 Shield Resistances: 15/60/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 7350 Armor Resistances: 70/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 115m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Minmatar Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Minmatar Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Skirmish Warfare Link V
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.06 17:53:00 - [218] The Cap and Signature bonus would not make Titans obsolete. Titans can do a whole lot more when it comes to eve then just command and control. Also they have a bigger bonus to their respective bonus to cap recharge and signature radius (7.5% instead of 5%). I am really starting to hit a road block with unique ideas for the ships, i would like them to stay in the command and control area of design and not venture too much into the logistical end of the spectrum. I keep running into a problem with trying to combine the ships so that their is only one Flagship per race. The issue being is that the ships are to unique in their bonuses and design that it becomes very hard to ballance them in their group and outside of the group. They either become over nerfed or way over powered.
Korran Minare Gallente Spaced Cowboys Dread Sovereign	Posted - 2008.02.07 22:01:00 - [219] lookin good Balor, i agree that its tough to try and combine the two to make just one flagship for each race, either its uber nerfed or uber powered, the search for the delicate balance is on, and bump back to the top Originally by: Korran Minare what would you put on space pizza anyway???? Support Flagships
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.09 19:53:00 - [220] Bump Looking for comments.
Soltueur Gallente Joint Strike Squad	Posted - 2008.02.11 16:34:00 - [221] Well dont know if this has been asked before, but why can the theater command ship only use 3 active warfare links(as role bonus)? I know that each type(armor,shield,speed,ecm?) only has 3 diffrent mods and that this could be the reason. But this makes them only just as good as the normal command ships(okey they can probly tank more and do more dmg). But warfare link wise they will be the same as the command ship. Why not give em 4/5/6? This would kinda point them into useing the warfare links more often as you can boost allot. Or would this totaly screw it up? ---------------------------------------- "It is only by fate that any life ends, and only by chance that it is yours... not mine" New vid
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.11 17:32:00 - [222] Yah, you are right about the flagship having the same command ability as the Command ships, ill try and come up with a clever way to deal with this.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.13 22:40:00 - [223] bump
Kirjava Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.02.14 16:54:00 - [224] Interesting proposals.....I can see myself training for the Theater Command ship. Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007.
Gekigami	Posted - 2008.02.14 18:58:00 - [225] Main Gun ship. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=691408
Korran Minare Gallente Spaced Cowboys Dread Sovereign	Posted - 2008.02.18 17:39:00 - [226] start of the week bump Originally by: Korran Minare what would you put on space pizza anyway???? Support Flagships
Vordek Rei	Posted - 2008.02.18 22:56:00 - [227] A Free bumb for this Brilliant Idea - perhaps now I can use my soon to be 5 million SP in leadership
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.20 03:44:00 - [228] I hope to have some concepts soon. Ill try to have them up for tomorrow.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.20 16:16:00 - [229] AMARR Name: Requiem Hull: Abaddon Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Carthum Conglomerate Carthum ships are the very embodiment of the Amarrian warfare philosophy. Possessing sturdy armor and advanced weapons systems, they provide a nice mix of offense and defense. On the other hand, their electronics and shield systems tend to be rather limited. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Energy Turret damage per level, 5% bonus armor Resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Capacitor Recharge Rate per level, 5% bonus to Large Energy Turret capacitor cost per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 10% bonus to Warfare Link module effectiveness, activate 2 warfare links simultaniously Fitting slots: 8 high / 4 mid / 8 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 20500 CPU: 530 Hard points: 7 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 6850 Shield Resistances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8750 Armor Resistances: 60/35/37.5/35 Hull HP: 8000 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 75m^3s Drone Bandwidth: 75 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6375 Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 80km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Radar 22 Signature Radius: 480m Scanner Resolution: 85 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Fusion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Amarr Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Amarr Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery III --> Weapon Upgrade V Name: Oblivion Hull: Abaddon Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Khanid Innovations In addition to robust electronics systems, the Khanid Kingdom's ships possess advanced armor alloys capable of withstanding a great deal of punishment. Generally eschewing the use of turrets, they tend to gear their vessels more towards close-range missile combat. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Torpedo velocity per level, 5% bonus to armor Resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Capacitor Recharge Rate per level, 3% bonus to effectiveness of Armored Warfare Links module per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, activate 3 warfare link modules simultaneously, Warfare Links effect the entire system that the Flagship is in Fitting slots: 8 high / 5 mid / 7 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 19500 CPU: 530 Hard points: 0 Turret/6 Launcher Shield HP: 7350 Shield Resistances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8150 Armor Resistances: 60/20/25/35s Hull HP: 8000 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3s Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6375 Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 80km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Radar 22 Signature Radius: 480m Scanner Resolution: 85 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Fusion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Amarr Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Amarr Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Armored Warfare Link V
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.20 16:17:00 - [230] CALDARI Name: Tsunami Hull: Rokh Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Kaalakiota As befits one of the largest weapons manufacturers in the known world, Kaalakiota's ships are very combat focused. Favoring the traditional Caldari combat strategy, they are designed around a substantial number of weapons systems, especially missile launchers. However, they have rather weak armor and structure, relying more on shields for protection. Cladari Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Missile Launcher explosion velocity per lever, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Points per level, 5% bonus to Missile velocity per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 10% bonus to Warfare Link module effectiveness, activate 2 warfare links simultaniously Fitting slots: 8 high / 7 mid / 5 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 13500 CPU: 750 Hard points: 0 Turret/6 Launcher Shield HP: 9000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6500 Armor Resistances: 60/10/25/45 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Caldari Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Caldari Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery III --> Weapon Upgrade V Name: Bastion Hull: Rohk Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Ishukone Most of the recent designs off their assembly line have provided for a combination that the Ishukone name is becoming known for: great long-range capabilities and shield systems unmatched anywhere else. Caldari Battleship Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range per level, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Siege Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, activate 3 warfare link modules simultaneously, Warfare Links effect the entire system that the Flagship is in Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 14700 CPU: 750 Hard points: 7 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 9000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6750 Armor Resistances: 60/10/25/45 Hull HP: 7250 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Caldari Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Caldari Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Siege Warfare Link V
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.20 16:18:00 - [231] GALLENTE Name: Valkyrie Hull: Hyperion Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Duvolle Labs Duvolle Labs manufactures sturdy ships with a good mix of offensive and defensive capabilities. Since the company is one of New Eden's foremost manufacturers of particle blasters, its ships tend to favor turrets and thus have somewhat higher power output than normal. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Hybrid Turrets damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Armor Hit Points per level, 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret falloff per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 10% bonus to Warfare Link module effectiveness, activate 2 warfare links simultaniously Fitting slots: 8 high / 5 mid / 7 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 15450 CPU: 570 Hard points: 7 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 7000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8350 Armor Resistances: 60/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8650 Velocity: 130m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Gallente Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Gallente Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery III --> Weapon Upgrade V Name: Artimus Hull: Hyperion Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: CreoDron As the largest drone developer and manufacturer in space, CreoDron has a vested interest in drone carriers. While sacrificing relatively little in the way of defensive capability, the Artimus can chew its way through surprisingly strong opponents - provided, of course, that the pilot uses top-of-the-line CreoDron drones. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 10% bonus to drone Hit Points and Damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Armor Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Information Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, activate 3 warfare link modules simultaneously, Warfare Links effect the entire system that the Flagship is in Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 14150 CPU: 570 Hard points: 5 Turret/2 Launcher Shield HP: 7000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8500 Armor Resistances: 60/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8500 Velocity: 130m/s Drone Bay: 125m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 125 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Gallente Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Gallente Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Information Warfare Link V
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.20 16:20:00 - [232] MINMATAR Name: Conflagration Hull: Maelstrom Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Boundless Creations Boundless Creation's ships are based on the Brutor tribe's philosophy of warfare: simply fit as much firepower onto your ship as possible. Defense systems and electronics arrays therefore tend to take a back seat to sheer annihilative potential. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Projectile Turret arte of fire per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Signature Radius reduction per level, 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret falloff per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 10% bonus to Warfare Link module effectiveness, activate 2 warfare links simultaniously Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 18500 CPU: 610 Hard points: 7 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 7500 Shield Resistances: 15/60/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8000 Armor Resistances: 70/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 115m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Minmatar Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Minmatar Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Electronics V -> Gunnery III --> Weapon Upgrade V Name: Halberd Hull: Maelstrom Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Core Complexion Core Complexion's ships are unusual in that they favor electronics and defense over the "lots of guns" approach traditionally favored by the Minmatar. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Projectile Turret arte of fire per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Signature Radius reduction per level, 3% bonus to Skirmish Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, activate 3 warfare link modules simultaneously, Warfare Links effect the entire system that the Flagship is in Fitting slots: 8 High / 7 Mid / 5 Low / 2 rig Power Grid: 18100 CPU: 610 Hard points: 5 Turret/2 Launcher Shield HP: 8150 Shield Resistances: 15/60/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 7350 Armor Resistances: 70/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 115m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Minmatar Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Minmatar Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Skirmish Warfare Link V
Korran Minare Gallente Spaced Cowboys Dread Sovereign	Posted - 2008.02.21 16:18:00 - [233] Edited by: Korran Minare on 21/02/2008 16:18:20 ohhhhhhhhhh, new versions look sexy, btw i still have a space picked out for the Artimus Originally by: Korran Minare what would you put on space pizza anyway???? Support Flagships
Emrys Ap'Morgravaine Caldari Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion	Posted - 2008.02.21 23:34:00 - [234] I just found this topic through someone else's sig - one of those rare articles that I'll actually read from beginning to end, frankly I love the concept - I once floated an idea briefly of a long range tactical assault boat - which seems to pretty much coincide with the theater option thats posited here, I'd love to see these in game (if only because I massively love the Rokh) though frankly I'd prefer to see the missile option on the Theater, and Blasters on the frontline, perhaps with a range bonus for torps? (I realise CCP nerfed torps to become the close range partner to cruise, ala heavy assault's//heavies, but its an option never the less) Emrys. Your sig is too big. Send an e-mail to [email protected] when it meets the forum signature guidelines.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.22 03:32:00 - [235] I might consider making the change that you suggested, it is a rather simple operation, swap roles and you are done. I'm a little worried that the Theater Command Ship might be a bit too powerful. Might have to nerf it at some point.
Nova Fox	Posted - 2008.02.22 07:07:00 - [236] Your ships are too traditional to much of thier roles are already existent ingame or it means to replace currently existing roles of smaller prequesitit ships. We dont need another assault frigate.
Kirgan	Posted - 2008.02.22 14:21:00 - [237] This is one of the best ideas I have seen as of yet. My 2 cents on the subject; To keep these from becoming used for unintended purposes and getting them nerfed as a result; they could be short range damage only. New weapons (modules/skills) could be added (i.e.: Tactical Torpedoes/Missiles /Defensive Charges /Strike Drones) with a 25km max range at level 5 skill, also increase the tank and support roles. They would be devastating close range but useless solo at medium to long range, yet able to withstand an intense attack for a decent length of time. More skills to train for new weapons and fittings could make them further specialized. A static speed as well (no modules/rigs can change it) to further limit it's offensive capabilities.
Dors Venabily	Posted - 2008.02.22 15:35:00 - [238] Originally by: Rjaiajik Kajvoril I actually agree with the warfare link module idea. I think it would make them yet more specialised. Maybe have the following as the Flagship bonuses for each race. Amarr - +20% to Armoured Warfare skill bonus per level. 5% bonus to Armoured Warfare link modules per level. Caldari - +20% to Siege Warfare skill bonus per level. 5% bonus to Siege Warfare link modules per level. Gellente - +20% to Information Warfare skill bonus per level. 5% bonus to Information Warfare link modules per level. Minmatar - +20% to Skirmish Warfare skill bonus per level. 5% bonus to Skirmish Warfare link modules per level. If you had the skill Flagship V (I think a better name than Heavy Command Ship V). You would be getting double the bonus for your racial warfare skill and a 25% bonus to your racial warfare link modules, making your race now come into play a little more as well. What do people think. Interesting change? As a gallente get porkes bonus no thx change the command ships one to this proposed bonuses as well pls finally the gall comand ships would be worth flying again
PtolemaiosPlato Solomon Gallente Trinitas Inc. Phoenix Allianz	Posted - 2008.02.22 17:09:00 - [239] I like the idea, too. Massive defense. But maybe lesser offensive capabilities. But giving some advantages to the fleet associated with it (some attribute enhancements). A flagship should be at risk when being alone, but inside a fleet, it is well protected and enhances the combat attributes. A flagship should be richly decorated and be more a presentation ship than a purely functional common fleet ship. It resembles the high command of a fleet. These are just my ideas. Greetings, thanks for reading, Sven Location: 18¦ 0'33.80"N - 76¦46'52.66"W - Elevation 344 ft Your sig lacks visible EVE-related content. Email us at [email protected] for more information -HornFrog
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.22 21:00:00 - [240] The command bonuses are the way they are because the Flagships was intended originaly to be an upgrade for the Command Ships. They have since changed a lot from that, however. As far as the command and warfare link modules for Gallente are concerned , they do have their place in combat, granted they are not nearly as univrsely good as some of the other races warfare links but they are good for a lot in combat. Making ECM and other electronic warfare modules more effective and boosting the ability of ships in the fleet to lock and engage at greater range. Ill take the Gallente Flagship in a fleet of sniper ships any day.
Revan Crow Minmatar Freeworlds United Inc Southern Connection	Posted - 2008.02.23 17:42:00 - [241] hmm...no CCP response yet ? they gotta see this...its awesome
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.24 00:50:00 - [242] Thanks for the vote of confidence, I truely hope that CCP at least glances at the designs. Other than that i don't know what I can do to make them simply look at them other than hope for the best.
Gekigami	Posted - 2008.02.24 01:01:00 - [243] Good idea. I would like to see something that, say, significantly improves fleet accuracy by linking computer tracking systems. Realistically, multiple starships should be able to coordinate fire control since having 2 or 3 ships means that you have multiple reference bases for targeting. Essentially, I am stating that triangulation from within a fleet should be initiated to boost firing accuracy. It would be nice also if Flagships were done up in very shiny colors... prestige and all (plus since you'll be the target of any decent fleet with a brain you might as well look good when you explode)
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.24 02:34:00 - [244] HMM, that sounds like a cool bonus to have, ill have to see if i can find some way of working that in.
BlackDeej Aquila Astralis	Posted - 2008.02.24 19:09:00 - [245] Awesome Idea - would love to see these ships (or something very similar) in the game !! Hope CCP are listening to (reading) this thread Quote: Light is faster than sound, this is why some people appear bright until they speak.
Korran Minare Gallente Spaced Cowboys	Posted - 2008.02.25 18:39:00 - [246] start of the week bump Originally by: Korran Minare what would you put on space pizza anyway???? Support Flagships
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.25 19:01:00 - [247] I have taken some of the suggestions and there are going to be some changes to the latest versions of the ships. 1. The Cladari Flagships are going to be trades places and roles, the Bastion will become the new Frontline Command Ship and the Tsunami will be the new Theater Command Ship 2. The Valkyrie will be renamed the Minerva, because there is already a Ship/Drone by the same name. 3. The Bastion had a bad bonus that did not fit with the ship as it was setup, Instead of a missile bonus it will now get "3% bonus to Large Hybred Turret damage per level" 4. All of the Theater Command Ships role bonus will be changed from "Warfare Links effect the entire system" to "Warfare Links work while in warp" this is because warfare links already effect the entire system, my mistake on thinking they just effect the grid. 5. The Minmatar Flagships are going to get bonuses that are geared toward either Autocannons or Artillery. They will no longer have the same bonuses for each ship. This is to help the varience between the two. 6. The missile boats (Oblivion, Bastion) will be getting a more restricted fitting for powergrid and CPU. I hope to have the newer versions up soon.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.26 20:45:00 - [248] AMARR Name: Requiem Hull: Abaddon Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Carthum Conglomerate Carthum ships are the very embodiment of the Amarrian warfare philosophy. Possessing sturdy armor and advanced weapons systems, they provide a nice mix of offense and defense. On the other hand, their electronics and shield systems tend to be rather limited. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Energy Turret damage per level, 5% bonus armor Resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Capacitor Recharge Rate per level, 5% bonus to Large Energy Turret capacitor cost per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 10% bonus to Warfare Link module effectiveness, activate 2 warfare links simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 4 mid / 8 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 20500 CPU: 530 Hard points: 7 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 6850 Shield Resistances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8750 Armor Resistances: 60/35/37.5/35 Hull HP: 8000 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 75m^3s Drone Bandwidth: 75 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6375 Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 80km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Radar 22 Signature Radius: 480m Scanner Resolution: 85 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Fusion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Amarr Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Amarr Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery III --> Weapon Upgrade V Name: Oblivion Hull: Abaddon Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Khanid Innovations In addition to robust electronics systems, the Khanid Kingdom's ships possess advanced armor alloys capable of withstanding a great deal of punishment. Generally eschewing the use of turrets, they tend to gear their vessels more towards close-range missile combat. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Torpedo velocity per level, 5% bonus to armor Resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Capacitor Recharge Rate per level, 3% bonus to effectiveness of Armored Warfare Links module per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 3 warfare link modules simultaneously, Warfare Links do not deactivate in warp Fitting slots: 8 high / 5 mid / 7 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 19500 CPU: 530 Hard points: 0 Turret/6 Launcher Shield HP: 7350 Shield Resistances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8150 Armor Resistances: 60/20/25/35s Hull HP: 8000 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3s Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6375 Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 80km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Radar 22 Signature Radius: 480m Scanner Resolution: 85 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Fusion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Amarr Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Amarr Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Armored Warfare Link V
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.26 20:47:00 - [249] Edited by: Balor Haliquin on 26/02/2008 20:47:25 CALDARI Name: Bastion Hull: Rohk Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Ishukone Most of the recent designs off their assembly line have provided for a combination that the Ishukone name is becoming known for: great long-range capabilities and shield systems unmatched anywhere else. Caldari Battleship Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range per level, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret damage per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 10% bonus to Warfare Link module effectiveness, activate 2 warfare links simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 14700 CPU: 750 Hard points: 7 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 9000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6750 Armor Resistances: 60/10/25/45 Hull HP: 7250 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Caldari Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Caldari Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery III --> Weapon Upgrade V Name: Tsunami Hull: Rokh Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Kaalakiota As befits one of the largest weapons manufacturers in the known world, Kaalakiota's ships are very combat focused. Favoring the traditional Caldari combat strategy, they are designed around a substantial number of weapons systems, especially missile launchers. However, they have rather weak armor and structure, relying more on shields for protection. Cladari Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Missile Launcher explosion velocity per lever, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Siege Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 3 warfare link modules simultaneously, Warfare Links do not deactivate in warp Fitting slots: 8 high / 7 mid / 5 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 13500 CPU: 750 Hard points: 0 Turret/6 Launcher Shield HP: 9000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6500 Armor Resistances: 60/10/25/45 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Caldari Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Caldari Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Siege Warfare Link V
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.26 20:49:00 - [250] GALLENTE Name: Minerva Hull: Hyperion Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Duvolle Labs Duvolle Labs manufactures sturdy ships with a good mix of offensive and defensive capabilities. Since the company is one of New Eden's foremost manufacturers of particle blasters, its ships tend to favor turrets and thus have somewhat higher power output than normal. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Hybrid Turrets damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Armor Hit Points per level, 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret falloff per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 10% bonus to Warfare Link module effectiveness, activate 2 warfare links simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 5 mid / 7 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 15450 CPU: 570 Hard points: 7 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 7000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8350 Armor Resistances: 60/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8650 Velocity: 130m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Gallente Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Gallente Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery III --> Weapon Upgrade V Name: Artimus Hull: Hyperion Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: CreoDron As the largest drone developer and manufacturer in space, CreoDron has a vested interest in drone carriers. While sacrificing relatively little in the way of defensive capability, the Artimus can chew its way through surprisingly strong opponents - provided, of course, that the pilot uses top-of-the-line CreoDron drones. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 10% bonus to drone Hit Points and Damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Armor Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Information Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 3 warfare link modules simultaneously, Warfare Links do not deactivate in warp Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 14150 CPU: 570 Hard points: 5 Turret/2 Launcher Shield HP: 7000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8500 Armor Resistances: 60/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8500 Velocity: 130m/s Drone Bay: 125m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 125 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Gallente Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Gallente Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Information Warfare Link V
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.26 20:50:00 - [251] MINMATAR Name: Conflagration Hull: Maelstrom Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Boundless Creations Boundless Creation's ships are based on the Brutor tribe's philosophy of warfare: simply fit as much firepower onto your ship as possible. Defense systems and electronics arrays therefore tend to take a back seat to sheer annihilative potential. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Autocannon damage per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Signature Radius reduction per level, 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret falloff per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 10% bonus to Warfare Link module effectiveness, activate 2 warfare links simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 18500 CPU: 610 Hard points: 7 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 7500 Shield Resistances: 15/60/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8000 Armor Resistances: 70/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 115m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Minmatar Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Minmatar Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Electronics V -> Gunnery III --> Weapon Upgrade V Name: Halberd Hull: Maelstrom Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Core Complexion Core Complexion's ships are unusual in that they favor electronics and defense over the "lots of guns" approach traditionally favored by the Minmatar. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Artillery rate of fire per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Signature Radius reduction per level, 3% bonus to Skirmish Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 3 warfare link modules simultaneously, Warfare Links do not deactivate in warp Fitting slots: 8 High / 7 Mid / 5 Low / 2 rig Power Grid: 18100 CPU: 610 Hard points: 5 Turret/2 Launcher Shield HP: 8150 Shield Resistances: 15/60/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 7350 Armor Resistances: 70/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 115m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Minmatar Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Minmatar Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Skirmish Warfare Link V
Nova Fox	Posted - 2008.02.26 20:59:00 - [252] to many guns ><
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.27 04:57:00 - [253] I realy don't know what to say, the ships are pritty poor at DPS now and their volley damage is also much lower than the standard versions of the ships. Honestly most of the ships are going to be very hard to turn into solo gank machines. Im going to try and reduce the power grid and CPU of the ships to try and make them less so.
Lelulie Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.02.27 13:06:00 - [254] Ridiculously skill intensive. ------------------------------------
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.27 16:28:00 - [255] The skills required are to reflect both the difficulty and nessescity of a pilot who basicaly wants to fly a ship that is going to be used for command and control purposes. There are a lot of skills, but realize that most of the skills are the same ones that are needed to fly a Command ship. So in reality the Flagship is not that much more skill intensive to fly. It certainly dose look like a lot of skills.
Velox Idolon	Posted - 2008.02.27 18:33:00 - [256] I think you have the warfare link amount bonuses the wrong way round, look at the trend on damnation/absolution, also maybe give the tanky ones some mad hp bonuses :) so they can have big buffer tanks, but maybe grid gimp them so they cannot have uber active tanks
AizenSousuke Gallente Gear Ratio Black-Out	Posted - 2008.02.28 17:55:00 - [257] Originally by: Lelulie Ridiculously skill intensive. Not at all. Remember these are advanced battleships. I don't think the OP designed them to be flown in blobs by every single person on Eve. To the OP: Really good idea, would make fleet ops a bit more interesting. We could use more specialized ships like this. I'm going to follow this post and see how this develops. -------------------------------------------------- "With hard work and focus ye shall achieve."
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.28 21:59:00 - [258] Not sure that warfare links would make the Flagship massively more tankable. The ships unfotunately are going to be rather hard to kill because they are more often than not going to be called as thew primary in most fleet operations. So they need to be survivable.
Marmios	Posted - 2008.02.29 14:53:00 - [259] Have you guys checked the EVEmon lately? There is a skill called "Flagships - Skill at operating Wing Command Carriers. Can not be trained on Trial Accounts." I cant remember since when this skill appeared. Comments anyone?
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.29 16:36:00 - [260] I do not have EVEmon yet, my system throws a fit every time i try and install it. I would laugh if the Devs were testing something like these ships on their personal server or in Jovian space. I'm not quite so sure about a Flagship being based on a carrier hull. Seems to me it is a very quick and easy way to make standard carriers obsolete.
Marmios	Posted - 2008.02.29 17:01:00 - [261] Edited by: Marmios on 29/02/2008 17:03:40 Maybe it has something to do with these new carrier roles they spoke about in a devblog last year. Could be a kind of gang boost carrier as the skill prequisite show that you need wing command lvl 5 to train this skill. That wouldnt make the standard carriers useless in my opinion, they just need to decrease the amount of fighters u can carry with these "Flagships" and add some wing command bonuses. Voila theres your "Wing Command Carrier".
Korran Minare Gallente Spaced Cowboys	Posted - 2008.02.29 17:04:00 - [262] hmmmmm the skill is there, you need spaceship command at v, leadership v, and wing command v to get it, but it currently shows no ships enabled by the skill, it must be around since evemon hasnt been updated in a while, last update i remember was sometime after rev 2, cant remember if it was updated for trinity or not Originally by: Korran Minare what would you put on space pizza anyway???? Support Flagships
Marmios	Posted - 2008.02.29 17:06:00 - [263] Originally by: Korran Minare hmmmmm the skill is there, you need spaceship command at v, leadership v, and wing command v to get it, but it currently shows no ships enabled by the skill, it must be around since evemon hasnt been updated in a while, last update i remember was sometime after rev 2, cant remember if it was updated for trinity or not It was updated. All new Trinity ships can be selected in EVEMon.
Valeo Galaem New Eden Advanced Reconnaissance Unit	Posted - 2008.02.29 17:41:00 - [264] Originally by: Marmios Have you guys checked the EVEmon lately? There is a skill called "Flagships - Skill at operating Wing Command Carriers. Can not be trained on Trial Accounts." I cant remember since when this skill appeared. Comments anyone? Flagships have been in the DB for almost 2 years, maybe before carriers were developed. IIRC they were one of the earlier T2 BS concepts. I'm really amazed at the amount of effort that has been put into these. Personally I've been waiting for Flagships for a while. I hope your thread helps to move them along. What I'm more interested in is the relevance of this news item - "Mordu's Legion Launches Flagship Vessel" from last summer. I had thought this would have been about the T2 BS coming in Trinity but we all know they turned out being different classes of ship. Although the news items refers to them as "capital class" so who knows. Thar be Pirates You are not authorised to hack into CONCORD's mainframe Your Wallet has been emptied! CONCORD Encryption Methods
Marmios	Posted - 2008.02.29 17:48:00 - [265] So theres still something in the pipe :D
Korran Minare Gallente Spaced Cowboys	Posted - 2008.02.29 17:53:00 - [266] excelent Originally by: Korran Minare what would you put on space pizza anyway???? Support Flagships
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.03.01 06:19:00 - [267] In my opinion, as scewed as it is, I would personaly like to see flagships be made out of Battleship hulls instead of carrier hulls. But, considering I came up with the designs for the thread its no wonder. I am not against T2 carriers or whatever my come of that, but I think a command version of a battleship is what the doctor ordered.
Merfio	Posted - 2008.03.01 10:26:00 - [268] Im with you Balor. There are enough Capitals ingame and EVE shouldnt be Capitals Online....
SoulOfAnnihilation Amarr Four Rings Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.01 15:34:00 - [269] I'm digging, it, and it isnt a capital, its like a command ship version of the Muraders. PS i got all the skills for the amarr and caldari ones ^^ SoulOfAnnihilation Four Rings PvP Wing PA FC
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.03.01 18:59:00 - [270] Back to the topic at hand, anybody have some sugestions for reducing the PG and CPU of the Flagships so they are a little harder to fit? I'm looking to make them more difficult to turn into gank platforms of doom.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.03.03 17:03:00 - [271] Bump
Korran Minare Gallente Spaced Cowboys	Posted - 2008.03.03 19:36:00 - [272] you could mabey try what they did with the marauders and reduce the number of hardpoints, not highslots but hardpoints, will have to look at latest version to see what the current ratio of highslots to hardpoints is, but that would be one way of making sure they dont become uber gankers Originally by: Korran Minare what would you put on space pizza anyway???? Support Flagships
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.03.05 02:34:00 - [273] Already been reduced to max weapons of 7 and 8 highs. I don't want to reduce that any more because i don't want them to be exactly like Marauders.
Korran Minare Gallente Spaced Cowboys	Posted - 2008.03.05 21:46:00 - [274] yea that is a good point there, hmmmm /sits back and ignores world while thinking about flagship balance problem Originally by: Korran Minare what would you put on space pizza anyway???? Support Flagships
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.03.07 02:47:00 - [275] Honestly looking at the ships I really don't think they can be lowered in their DPS any more then they already have. Most of the Frontline Command Ships are doing only about 75% of what their T1 base ship can do for DPS and Volley. They are restrictive on fittings but I don't know if they could use a little more tweaking.
Korran Minare Gallente Spaced Cowboys	Posted - 2008.03.09 17:40:00 - [276] back to the top Originally by: Korran Minare what would you put on space pizza anyway???? Support Flagships
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.03.10 05:51:00 - [277] It seems CCP Hammerhead mentioned something about Flagships comming soon. He was talking about it being based on the Tier 3 battleships. Here to hoping they saw this forum thread.
Ikonz Coristati Red Republic	Posted - 2008.03.10 09:19:00 - [278] Originally by: Rjaiajik Kajvoril Edited by: Rjaiajik Kajvoril on 13/12/2007 22:30:23 I would agree with the above post. Bandwidth and Drone Bay should probably increase for those ships. As for them being overpowered, I don't think they are. I think they are Flagships. Exactly what they should be, only barely below capital ships in force. They should be the kind of things that can take on 3-4 battleships singlehandedly and win hands down. We need ships like these in EVE. The jump from Battleship to Capital Ship is much to big, we need something that is an effective middle ground, and this is it. Every missioner would be flying this ship,
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.03.10 15:38:00 - [279] Could you explain why you feel that way. The current ships are able to do damage and hold their own but a Marauder can definately out DPS and volly a Flagship. The Flagships are really much more fleet dependent now.
000Hunter000 Gallente Missiles 'R' Us	Posted - 2008.03.10 18:43:00 - [280] Now, allthough i like the idea on to itself, does this mean the flagship has to remain on grid to work? otherwise it will just be sitting at a pos. Also, if it has to be on grid, it will obviously be called primary almost instantly no doubt, and no tank in the universe will save it. So, heres a suggestion for a specialized role and mod for the ship. Give it a 'camouflage' role and an acompanying camouflage module. what it does is make the ship look like any other standard battleship, and only shipscanner or direct attack will reveal it as a flagship. _______________________________________________________ CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!!
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.03.10 19:09:00 - [281] Honestly, the issue of a Flagship sitting at a POS is real but i would probably say that it is very unlikely. First of all, any support ships that have the ability to support a fleet in a system without having to be in direct contact will do the same thing. Also, the flagship is going to either be on the offensive or defensive. If offensive, then the ship most likely not going to have a friendly POS in the location to hide at. The very point of the flagship is to offer the fleet bonuses as it moves from system. If defensive, if again is not going to be able to hid at a POS, at least not for very long. If it comes down to the fleet being engages the Flagship is going to give its bonuses. If that fleet is defeated, it most likely dose not matter if its at a POS or not. Its function has been nullified. Personaly i would put the Flagship on the front line or defending some rear position. The tank makes it a good for defensive postures and they still have a good punch on them. To keep them at a POS is a rather poor use or resorces. The idea of the camoflage module is kinda cool, however its a bit outside the realm of this thread. Though the mental image of people screaming over Team Speak "Shoot the Abaddon... NOT THAT ONE THE OTHER ONE!" made me laugh.
Korran Minare Gallente Spaced Cowboys	Posted - 2008.03.11 17:30:00 - [282] camo mod would be very interesting and throw a lot of people off Originally by: Korran Minare what would you put on space pizza anyway???? Support Flagships
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.03.11 20:05:00 - [283] No more new ships(especially fleet oriented) until lag is fixed. Deal?
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2008.03.13 19:24:00 - [284] Fair enough, but that is an issue the is far beyond the issues discused here.
Balor Haliquin Dire Trucking Varangian Syndicate	Posted - 2008.03.16 02:25:00 - [285] bump
Seth Ruin Galactic Exploration and Mining Corporation Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2008.03.16 07:24:00 - [286] Originally by: Foocurr No more new ships(especially fleet oriented) until lag is fixed. Deal? Dear GM (BMW, Mitsubishi, etc...): Please do not make any new cars until the traffic jam problem in most major cities is fixed. Deal? (The lag issue is essentially unsolvable. There's no good reason to halt content development because of lag )
Illwill Bill Boennerup Banden	Posted - 2008.03.17 16:47:00 - [287] Excellent idea! ____________________ Honk if you think that I'm a n00b
Balor Haliquin Dire Trucking Varangian Syndicate	Posted - 2008.03.17 16:56:00 - [288] I would like to think that CCP would continue to develope ships based on need an inovation, and not be constrained by lag. That being said lag is a part of life that every MMORPG has to deal with at some point in its life time. CCP has to deal with it more often simply because of the scale that it works on. I would also like to think that the Flagship has a place in eve. It has been mentioned before i ever wrote this thread, so CCP has thought about the idea. I can only hope that i can be the lucky person, along with everyone who has contributed, to be instramental in comming up with the working design.
Korran Minare Spaced Cowboys	Posted - 2008.03.18 21:25:00 - [289] bumpage Originally by: Korran Minare what would you put on space pizza anyway???? Support Flagships
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2008.03.21 05:22:00 - [290] no word from CCP about weather they plan to make flagships or not. Here is to hoping they do. And here is to the continued life of this forum thread.
Galcray Sacred Templars DeStInY.	Posted - 2008.03.21 06:12:00 - [291] bump for tech 2 hyperion _____________ I have ridden the mighty moon worm.
Balor Haliquin Dire Trucking Varangian Syndicate	Posted - 2008.03.21 18:38:00 - [292] The orgiinal versions of the Flagships were nothing more than bigger command ships. But it quickly became aparent that the ships would be very overpowered. So in order to make them more ballancend and a bit more pallatable for CCP, they were reduced in their combat ability and made to be more oriented for Command and Control roles. The difference between the two versions of the ships is actualy rather large for the most part. The Frontline Command Ship is much more combat oriented and has only slightly more capabek command and control systems. The Theater Command Ship is far more command oriented but sacrifices its bonuses for that role. The reason they both are limited on turrets is because i didn't want the Marauders to become obsolete. So in order to do that the Flagships' damage output is less then that of the Marauders. The unfotunate side effect is that the ships are not capable of the damage output of the ships they are based on. The difference between the Frontline and Theater command ships may not seem to have many differences but they are reay geared toward two different ends of the command spectrum. Also please look at the latest versions, they are significantly different than the original designs. Thanks for the support
Balor Haliquin Dire Trucking Varangian Syndicate	Posted - 2008.03.25 03:52:00 - [293] bump looking for input or signatures...
Corcha TiDaghain Bulgarian Mafia Squad Sons of Tangra	Posted - 2008.03.27 12:35:00 - [294] We keep talking, that our goal is to deliver all the ship types on the battlefield. But the Flag and Command ships are by default used by the fleet commanders. They are not used by fleet boosters, who are docked on the POS. So. What is the ship type ,that a fleet commander would love to use. What does the fleet commander need? Here are my proposals for The Theater Flag Ship: ºMaximum Targeting Range: it is impossible for a single ship to tank the damage of 50 + battle ships. But the fleet commander must survive such a battle û to its end. So the targeting range of 200 + kilometers will guarantee the FC the minimum comfort on the battle field. This means, that the flagship must be separated from the main fleet and this ship must warp on its own. ºScanner resolution: if the fleet commander wants to tag the target, he must be able to lock on this target before the battle is over. Sometimes the fleet or the wing commander calls targets not only for the battle ships, but for the anti-support. ºSensor Strength: the flag ship becomes useless when is jammed or dampened. I think that this ship will need maximum sensor strength. I am sure that even in ôreal lifeö nobody loves the idea to have its flagship jammed and the constructors have to solutions to keep this flag ship working with maximum sensor strength. ºMaximum lock: the flagship has to be able to lock on 8 + targets. The fleet commander takes decisions for a second and if by mistake he has locked the wrong target, he will need 50 more seconds to stop the locking process in the most crucial moment. In such case the FC will find all his locking slots filled with targets, some of them û wrong. Locking and unlocking while the lag fest is running is a challenge for everyone. ºResistances: we talk about T2 ship. T2 ships are expensive ºTank Bonus /shield or armor/: this is another feature, crucial for its survival. When this ship is a part of a small gang, the FC can jump through the gate without getting worried that the 10 BS on the other side will destroy him in 10 seconds. The Theater Flag Ship does not need bonuses for tracking, optimal range, damage, etc. They are useless for a ship, which wants to play the role of a Theater Flag Ship. The other engineering characteristics, the gang module bonuses and the skills, needed to operate on such ship, are a question of a balance. The Frontline Flag Ship must work as the Field Command Ship û a lot of tank and a lot of damage without worrying, that the damage will be more than the damage of the Marauder. I think that the Marauder has different role in the gang, compared to the role of The Frontline Flag Ship.
Balor Haliquin Dire Trucking Varangian Syndicate	Posted - 2008.03.27 19:28:00 - [295] Though I tend to agree that the Frontline Command Ship should be much more like the Field Command ship in role and designe there has been a significant back lash to the idea of a completely combat oriented Flagship. Even after all of the nerfing that I did to make them significantly less powerful than the original there were people calling for them to be reduced in power even further. So they lossed a turret and got their damage bonus reduced. I'm not sure I want to step on the toes of the Marauders. Making the Flagship more powerful in both DPS and tank would spell the doom for that class of ship unfortunatley. So in order to prevent that I removed the massive DPS the Flagships were going to be capable of. I'm thinking about putting the extra turret slot back on the Frontline Command Ships though. They will not get the regular bonus to the guns damage, I'm going to keep the lesser version. The whole point of these ships is to be more command and control oriented than simply gank and win ships. Without the ability to do any real testing on these by using EFT for fitting or something like it, i can't really say what the ships would be capable of. But thank you for the input I'll see what I can do.
Janus Ovellian Encina Technologies Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2008.03.27 20:25:00 - [296] Currently we have... Quote: Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Racial Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Racial Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Racial Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Electronics V -> Gunnery III --> Weapon Upgrade V Quote: Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Racial Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Racial Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Racial Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Racial Warfare Link V Purely from a view of the skillpoints required, the latter needs significantly more. Admittedly some of them are skills that pretty much everyone looking to fly these ships will already have, but the same can be said of the first lot of tertiary skills too. Also.. the tertiary skill list doesn't really follow any kind of ingame logic. What these really are is a bunch of other skills which are also required to fly the ship - not a third skill and it's pre-requisites. These 'tertiary skill's are the only place where any differences arise and there we have: Heavy Assault IV - 271,530 sp Assault IV - 181,020 sp Gunnery III - 8,000 sp Weapon Upgrade V - 512,000 sp = 972,550 sp compared to : Logisitics V - 1,536,000 sp Signature Analysis V - 512,000 sp Long Range Targeting V - 512,000 sp Racial Warfare Link (which I've assumed is the rank 5 racial warfare specialisation skill and not the rank 2) - 1,280,000 sp (or 512,000 sp if I'm wrong) = 3,840,000 sp (or 3,072,000 sp) Quite obviously unbalanced. Basically, I think the first one should also require Command Ships V as it's tertiary skill. That adds about 1,685,960 sp to bring it to a total of 2,658,510. So then even if I'm wrong with the racial warfare link bit, the skillpoint totals are a little closer (in fact it's better if I'm wrong!). As skill intensive as these are anyway, Command Ships V is liable to go a lot faster than the charisma intensive leadership specialisation skills. So you could probably do with adding some other rank 5 or more Per/Will skill on the first one. As unpopular as that may be. Or... reduce the number of lvl V's in the second list. Interesting times await...
Balor Haliquin Dire Trucking Varangian Syndicate	Posted - 2008.03.28 16:51:00 - [297] Okay, here are some changes I'm working on for the ships. As pointed out, there is a disparity between the skill time and cost between the Frontline Command Ship and the Theater Command Ship. As in the Theater Command Ship has more than 3 times the SP required to fly it. So to fix this, here is what I plan to do. The Frontline Command Ship will have Gunnery go from a 3 to a 5, Assault Ships to 5, and Heavy Assault Ships to 5. Theater Command Ship will have Racial Warfare Link reduced to 4. That should even the ships out as far as SP required. The second change is going to be to the Minmatar Flagships. They are going to lose some of their individuality. I can not find a clever way of making the two ships more different. If anyone has a sugestion please let me know. What I mean by different is that, for example, Amarr have two different weapons types (Lasers and Missiles) Caldari have Hybreds, and Gallente have Hybreds and Drones. But so far the Minmatar have artillery. Finally I'm going to increase the number of weapons hard points on the Frontline command ship to reflect the fact that they will be in much more heavy engagement situations. Their DPS will still be lower than the base ships and they are still going to have highly restrictive fittings. But the fittings are going to get a boost, not so much that they are going to have the base ships PG and CPU mind you. I will try and have the new ships up soon. Aiming for the weekend. If there is anyone out there who can help me with some of the math involved for fitting (EFT style stuff) your help is apreciated.
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2008.03.29 18:38:00 - [298] AMARR Name: Requiem Hull: Abaddon Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Carthum Conglomerate Carthum ships are the very embodiment of the Amarrian warfare philosophy. Possessing sturdy armor and advanced weapons systems, they provide a nice mix of offense and defense. On the other hand, their electronics and shield systems tend to be rather limited. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Energy Turret damage per level, 5% bonus armor Resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Capacitor Recharge Rate per level, 5% bonus to Large Energy Turret capacitor cost per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 10% bonus to Warfare Link module effectiveness, activate 2 warfare links simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 4 mid / 8 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 20700 CPU: 530 Hard points: 8 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 6850 Shield Resistances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8750 Armor Resistances: 60/35/37.5/35 Hull HP: 8000 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 75m^3s Drone Bandwidth: 75 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6375 Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 80km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Radar 22 Signature Radius: 480m Scanner Resolution: 85 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Fusion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Amarr Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Amarr Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship V --> Assault Ship V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery V --> Weapon Upgrade V Name: Oblivion Hull: Abaddon Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Khanid Innovations In addition to robust electronics systems, the Khanid Kingdom's ships possess advanced armor alloys capable of withstanding a great deal of punishment. Generally eschewing the use of turrets, they tend to gear their vessels more towards close-range missile combat. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Torpedo velocity per level, 5% bonus to armor Resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Capacitor Recharge Rate per level, 3% bonus to effectiveness of Armored Warfare Links module per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 3 warfare link modules simultaneously, Warfare Links do not deactivate in warp Fitting slots: 8 high / 5 mid / 7 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 19500 CPU: 530 Hard points: 0 Turret/6 Launcher Shield HP: 7350 Shield Resistances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8150 Armor Resistances: 60/20/25/35s Hull HP: 8000 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3s Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6375 Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 80km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Radar 22 Signature Radius: 480m Scanner Resolution: 85 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Fusion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Amarr Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Amarr Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Armored Warfare Link IV
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2008.03.29 18:39:00 - [299] CALDARI Name: Bastion Hull: Rohk Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Ishukone Most of the recent designs off their assembly line have provided for a combination that the Ishukone name is becoming known for: great long-range capabilities and shield systems unmatched anywhere else. Caldari Battleship Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range per level, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret damage per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 10% bonus to Warfare Link module effectiveness, activate 2 warfare links simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 14900 CPU: 750 Hard points: 7 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 9000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6750 Armor Resistances: 60/10/25/45 Hull HP: 7250 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Caldari Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Caldari Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship V --> Assault Ship V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery V --> Weapon Upgrade V Name: Tsunami Hull: Rokh Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Kaalakiota As befits one of the largest weapons manufacturers in the known world, Kaalakiota's ships are very combat focused. Favoring the traditional Caldari combat strategy, they are designed around a substantial number of weapons systems, especially missile launchers. However, they have rather weak armor and structure, relying more on shields for protection. Cladari Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Missile Launcher explosion velocity per lever, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Siege Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 3 warfare link modules simultaneously, Warfare Links do not deactivate in warp Fitting slots: 8 high / 7 mid / 5 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 13500 CPU: 750 Hard points: 0 Turret/6 Launcher Shield HP: 9000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6500 Armor Resistances: 60/10/25/45 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Caldari Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Caldari Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Siege Warfare Link IV
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2008.03.29 18:40:00 - [300] GALLENTE Name: Minerva Hull: Hyperion Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Duvolle Labs Duvolle Labs manufactures sturdy ships with a good mix of offensive and defensive capabilities. Since the company is one of New Eden's foremost manufacturers of particle blasters, its ships tend to favor turrets and thus have somewhat higher power output than normal. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Hybrid Turrets damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Armor Hit Points per level, 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret falloff per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 10% bonus to Warfare Link module effectiveness, activate 2 warfare links simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 5 mid / 7 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 15650 CPU: 570 Hard points: 7 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 7000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8350 Armor Resistances: 60/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8650 Velocity: 130m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Gallente Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Gallente Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship V --> Assault Ship V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery V --> Weapon Upgrade V Name: Artimus Hull: Hyperion Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: CreoDron As the largest drone developer and manufacturer in space, CreoDron has a vested interest in drone carriers. While sacrificing relatively little in the way of defensive capability, the Artimus can chew its way through surprisingly strong opponents - provided, of course, that the pilot uses top-of-the-line CreoDron drones. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 10% bonus to drone Hit Points and Damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Armor Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Information Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 3 warfare link modules simultaneously, Warfare Links do not deactivate in warp Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 14150 CPU: 570 Hard points: 5 Turret/2 Launcher Shield HP: 7000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8500 Armor Resistances: 60/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8500 Velocity: 130m/s Drone Bay: 125m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 125 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Gallente Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Gallente Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Information Warfare Link IV
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2008.03.29 18:42:00 - [301] MINMATAR Name: Conflagration Hull: Maelstrom Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Boundless Creations Boundless Creation's ships are based on the Brutor tribe's philosophy of warfare: simply fit as much firepower onto your ship as possible. Defense systems and electronics arrays therefore tend to take a back seat to sheer annihilative potential. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Projectile Turret damage per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Signature Radius reduction per level, 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret falloff per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 10% bonus to Warfare Link module effectiveness, activate 2 warfare links simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 18700 CPU: 610 Hard points: 8 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 7500 Shield Resistances: 15/60/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8000 Armor Resistances: 70/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 115m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Minmatar Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Minmatar Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship V --> Assault Ship V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Electronics V -> Gunnery V --> Weapon Upgrade V Name: Halberd Hull: Maelstrom Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Core Complexion Core Complexion's ships are unusual in that they favor electronics and defense over the "lots of guns" approach traditionally favored by the Minmatar. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Signature Radius reduction per level, 3% bonus to Skirmish Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 3 warfare link modules simultaneously, Warfare Links do not deactivate in warp Fitting slots: 8 High / 7 Mid / 5 Low / 2 rig Power Grid: 18100 CPU: 610 Hard points: 5 Turret/2 Launcher Shield HP: 8150 Shield Resistances: 15/60/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 7350 Armor Resistances: 70/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 115m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Minmatar Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Minmatar Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Skirmish Warfare Link IV
Korran Minare	Posted - 2008.04.01 17:45:00 - [302] start of the month bump, keep up the good work Balor, im likeing the direction these are going, man 11 pages and still no ccp response yet, whats wrong with that Originally by: Korran Minare what would you put on space pizza anyway???? Support Flagships
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2008.04.02 17:19:00 - [303] I am hoping to get more input on the designs. I truely think that the ships have a place in EVE and would be a valueble addition to the game. As far as CCP not yet responding to the thread, they will get to it in their own time. I'm not going to make this threads exsistance based on a responce from CCP. Though in the end it is the goal, i.e. the hopeful application of the ships into the game. Having CCP respond would be nothing more then vindication, I would much rather have implimentation.
Korran Minare Spaced Cowboys	Posted - 2008.04.02 17:51:00 - [304] true true, im hoping that they have at least looked at it even though they havent responded. im gonna try and take a look in evemon if i get a chance and compare the latest versions of the flagships to their BS bretheren and command ship cousins as well, but since im at work who knows. Originally by: Korran Minare what would you put on space pizza anyway???? Support Flagships
Balor Haliquin Dire Trucking Varangian Syndicate	Posted - 2008.04.04 17:44:00 - [305] Wait, there are Flagships in Evemon? I thought only the skill book was in the system. If thats the case ill have to check this out my self. Please let me know if you find them.
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2008.04.07 15:43:00 - [306] I could not find any Flagships skill on eve mon. It dose appear on battle clinic though. This is very strange.

CCP Abathur C C P	Posted - 2008.04.08 09:22:00 - [307] Originally by: Balor Haliquin As far as CCP not yet responding to the thread, they will get to it in their own time. Quite right. Thanks for the work you've put into this thread and we'll certainly consider some of these ideas when it's time to implement the Tier 3 T2 battleships. That's not to say that this concept will be what they end up being, but nothing is being ruled out. As for the 'Flagship' moniker, it's been tossed around for a while and is not currently locked into a particular class of ship. Personally, I think battleships are a bit... small for such a name. Abathur Game Designer

Kagura Nikon Infinity Enterprises Odyssey.	Posted - 2008.04.08 12:23:00 - [308] For lat time we do NOT need more warfare link ships!! We already have commadn ships, battlecruisers, carrier, mothership and Titans that can use them. We don't need MORE OF THE SAME! Eve need different ships!! Warfare link Battleships is FAIL!! ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Velox Idolon State War Academy	Posted - 2008.04.08 16:38:00 - [309] Originally by: CCP Abathur Originally by: Balor Haliquin As far as CCP not yet responding to the thread, they will get to it in their own time. Quite right. Thanks for the work you've put into this thread and we'll certainly consider some of these ideas when it's time to implement the Tier 3 T2 battleships. That's not to say that this concept will be what they end up being, but nothing is being ruled out. As for the 'Flagship' moniker, it's been tossed around for a while and is not currently locked into a particular class of ship. Personally, I think battleships are a bit... small for such a name. blatantly that name should go for t2 carriers, but meh :) (where MoM is one type and carrier is another) juggernaught for t2 dread monolith for t2 titan (this one I have thought about least, by which I mean under 20 seconds ^^)
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2008.04.08 18:13:00 - [310] Not wanting to sound harsh, as you've clearly put a lot of thought into the detail of the ships, but you haven't really defined a new concept, a unique role for these ships. You have taken two existing roles (the command ship gang bonus, and the Titan gang bonus) and bolted them onto a new hull. Now I'm not saying my idea's where better, I didn't go too far into ship specifics, but there was a concept, a unique role there (T2 Battleships boosting the effectiveness of spider tanks and fleet firepower). T2 ships need to be based around unique concepts; otherwise you simply replace another class of ship. -------------- Video - 'War-Machine'
Seth Ruin Galactic Exploration and Mining Corporation	Posted - 2008.04.08 18:24:00 - [311] Originally by: Kagura Nikon For lat time we do NOT need more warfare link ships!! We already have commadn ships, battlecruisers, carrier, mothership and Titans that can use them. We don't need MORE OF THE SAME! Eve need different ships!! Warfare link Battleships is FAIL!! Haven't read every page in this massive thread, but I'll have to say I agree. Warfare Link Modules are probably the most over-used role bonus in the game. Admittedly, I can't think of a good bonus off-hand. Perhaps something to do with sensors and scanning (especially when local goes bye-bye... which is inevitable)
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.04.09 14:46:00 - [312] The idea that Warfare Link Module bonuses is over used is, I think, over-exagerating the extent of the use of the modules. Of the six ships classes that have the bonus to fitting warfare links (i.e. 99% reduction CPU requirments to warfare link modules) only 4 of them get to activate more than 1, and only 2 of them get an actual bonus to their activation. Of those ships only one class of ships has both a bonus to the number of links, and a bonus to the effect of the link. So six ships out of the aproximately 46 different ships that are avalible to each race specificaly. This dose not count faction ships of both the race and pirate groups. So to say that there is an exsesive proliferation of Warfare Link Module bonuses on ships is wrong. The concept that its a forgone conclusion that a Flagship should be based on a Carrier is not forgone at all. This is a design based on a battleship. I'm sure there is a thread out there that is talking about Carriers being flagships. But as far as my design and a lot of effort by the people who have responded to this thread has been toward making a Flagship out of a tier 3 Battleship. I understand that the Command Ships are the current and have the current position of a fleet command ship. However, as I have seen and others have observed that Command Ship are more often then not used for single ship actions and are much more gank oriented then the Flagship designs currently are. I was looking to make a ship that was much more command and control oriented then the command ships. If I have failed to do so, then I am willing to listen to alternitives. And though I may completely disagree with you on concept history has shown that I have changed the designs because that persons argument made sence. To be perfectly honest CCP was nice enough to respond to this thread. No one from the company had to say anything about this. All i can hope is that CCP looks at the idea here and desides that tech 2 tier 3 battleships would be neat and might be cool to have some of the ideas featured here. So lets please keep the idea and the discussion going in a positive direction and not simply write that the idea sucks and not give any possibilities of how to change it.
Ghost Reaper Shinra Shinra Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.09 15:50:00 - [313] i think its a good idea for it, but you should add one adjustment, these ships are meant to be the command platforms for fleets. I suggest given them the ability to use a module called 'Target Marker' This is much like the target painter, however this module wen activates on a ship will tag it and that person will then appear on the overiew taged, or on a seperate overview. Make a setting on the overview that only shows 'Marked Targets'. That way the person in the flag ship would tag the targets being called, and keep adding new targets as more die. This would be a awesome FC tool, but the ship themself would need to take a lot of fire, as they would probaly be primaried constantly. What you think?? gr
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.04.12 01:20:00 - [314] While a valid concept for a mod i think it lacks a place, as described, in the current EVE universe. EVE already has a system for a commander to designate targets that the fleet is to focus on. The user interface is a little clunky but that will change I am sure. I'm not sure I like the idea of giving a ship exclusive rights to a specific module. It seems to me to be a bit of a stretch to make a ship viable only for the use of a single module. I may be wrong in this assumption. As a note, I am exteremly unhappy with the ammount of skills required for the ability to fly the ships. I am going to be removing a large ammount of them. These ships almost cost as much as a dreadnought to fly. So to bring them in line with other ships of their class I will look into reducing their skill requirements.
Marlona Sky Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.04.13 00:32:00 - [315] Edited by: Marlona Sky on 13/04/2008 00:32:55 I guess what everyone is really wanting is something that is unique. What that is I don't know. Maybe something like a ship that will benifit or hinder a specific aspect of all ships around it. I don't know like a force field, or maybe one a (insert new module here) is turned on anyone in a specific radius of the ship, their speed is reduced by 50% or increased, I don't know. A ship that with specific standings towards faction rats will spawn a gang of them that will attack the enemy to sway the odds in your favor. Or a ship that can fire some gun that is like the remote ecm burst but it lowers everyones (insert specific resistance) by like 80% thus making certain damage type hurt more. Again just random stuff I am putting here. I tried to put some epic thread about this new bonus ship class and it got 'meh' replies because I finally realized I was not really trying to indroduce something new, it felt like a cookie cutter idea. That of course is no way intended to delute Balor's idea here, but if we could infuse it in a way to really get the, "Ohhh WOW!!!" feeling when someone was to see what one could do with it. Its the same thing as to when people first saw some ground breaking movie that just broke all the rules/barriers and left you just thinking about it. This... is what a Flag Ship class should do. Leave both the pilots who have one and the ones who don't really respect what it can do for the game. /me climbs off soapbox.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.04.14 16:09:00 - [316] When I first started designing the Flagship, I wanted to make something that fit into a specific role in the game. So the logic I fallowed was that the ships had to fallow presidence, in other words they had to work within the bounds of ships similar to it. The ships had to have a very specific purpose, as in they had to have a role that they were particular for. The ships had to be versatile, to prevent the ships from becoming completely obsolete in their role as the game dynamic changes with new ships and content. And finally the ships had to be able to preform their job better than another ship not designed for the role, why bother spending 500,000,000.00 Isk on just the ship when you can soend that on a fully fitted tech 1 ship. To that end it has been a lot harder to make the ships fall into those peramiters than I thought. Add to the complexity trying to make the ships not preform a task as good or better than another class of ship's job, and you have one long prosses. I am constantly trying to make these ships more unique but at the same time not so unique as to make them too good or too specialized and thus obsolete. I have been toying around with the idea of givivng some of the Flagships a bonus to target painters, making them more effective. But I have to do more research on the subject. I would like to thank everyone on helping with the evolution of the ships for the past 6 months or so. Please keep up with the sugestions.
Korran Minare Gallente Spaced Cowboys	Posted - 2008.04.14 18:47:00 - [317] sry Balor but didnt see your response to my post about checkin evemon untill today, no what i ment was to look at the specs you have for the latest version of the ships and compare them to what evemon currently has for the Battleships and Command Ships, sry if i confused you there, but yes there is a skill in evemon for flagships just dont know whats gonna come out of it. And im also glad to know that CCP is workin on something like this for the new tier 3 ships
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.04.14 20:55:00 - [318] Here is to hope that they are going to be awesome ships, whatever they might be.
Marlona Sky Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.04.14 23:25:00 - [319] Originally by: CCP Abathur Originally by: Balor Haliquin As far as CCP not yet responding to the thread, they will get to it in their own time. Quite right. Thanks for the work you've put into this thread and we'll certainly consider some of these ideas when it's time to implement the Tier 3 T2 battleships. That's not to say that this concept will be what they end up being, but nothing is being ruled out. As for the 'Flagship' moniker, it's been tossed around for a while and is not currently locked into a particular class of ship. Personally, I think battleships are a bit... small for such a name. Maybe a ship size and functionality somewhere between the size of the battleship and capital?? CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you and... scouts, logistic ships, people to web you, alts with bonuses, not fitting nice gear, avoiding trafic hubs, etc... easy right??
Marlona Sky Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.04.14 23:29:00 - [320] Would a target range of 200km base be way over abused? Only reason is because it seems you can only broadcast targets if it is within your ships locking range. Fleet command ship should be on the battlefield but not in the thick of it like a King in a game of chess. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you and... scouts, logistic ships, people to web you, alts with bonuses, not fitting nice gear, avoiding trafic hubs, etc... easy right??
Odizzido	Posted - 2008.04.15 00:19:00 - [321] For the gallente ship Artimus, I noticed that even though it is considered a drone ship, it offers very little drone space. I am a drone user, and 175 is the absolute minimum space a drone ship should have. I would suggest more than 175 though as a drone boat it should have at least 300 space IMO.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.04.15 00:56:00 - [322] A longer lock on range might help with its ability to do fleet command but has the potential to be very badly abused. For example, load up the Requiem (Amarr Front Line Command Ship) with Heat Sink IIs and Tracking Computer IIs with Lock Speed script, you have probably one of, if not the best sniuper ship in the game, something that the ship is not meant to be but has the potentila of becoming. The reason I reduced the Artimus's drone capacity is because i wanted to make sure that the ship could not just send wave after wave of Oger IIs to assault helpless enemies. I may increase the size some but I don't want to turn it into a mini Carrier. Who knows what CCP intends to do for the final Flagship design. It is all up to them in the end. All we can do is try our best to have an idea make it all the way to being placed in the game.
Odizzido	Posted - 2008.04.15 07:56:00 - [323] 175 is the min needed for 5 heavy/sentry and 5 medium drones, which is why I said any drone boat needs that amount of space min. But then you get no replacements which is kinda a pain IMO.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.04.16 15:11:00 - [324] Good point, I will change this in a future developement of the ships. Thanks for pointing this out.
Blackbolt	Posted - 2008.04.17 04:08:00 - [325] Why not keep Warfare Modules and their bonuses with the Command Ships - after all, that's their primary role, and it's already well developed. As for what special sauce T3T2 BS's get - think up something new. Loved the work that went into the descriptions, but I hate the idea of yet more warfare sit @ 225k and smoke a x.x while everyone engages. Fleet Command should mean just that - a ship that pwns and leads the charge, or a ship that has special tactical manipulations that provide a significant (if only brief) advantage in combat. For BS-class ships, skill requirements should be significant, but rewards should mirrior this. This will be hard to balance without beocming another useless T2 ship. The T3T2 BS should be capable of putting some significant hurt on targets, espcially focused firepower on Cap ships. Right now everyone and their cousin can sit @ range and plink each other until DT without any significant advantage, assuming like-sized forces. The prevalence for tank over gank needs to swing back to pure DPS platform with added bonuses to firepower, specifically in Fleet engagements. Perhaps limiting those firepower bonuses to gang size restrictions - i.e. they don;t kick in until you have 25 or 50 players, and you have to be either Wing or Fleet commander. My .02c.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.04.18 17:13:00 - [326] Okay, so I am working on an idea to completely change the nature of the Frontline Command Ship. I am going to remove the majority of their warfare link bonuses; except for the 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules. Instead they will get a bonus to modules that will make them or the fleet they are with more capable of dealing damage or dealing with electronic warfare. Amarr - Target Painter Caldari - ECCM/Remote ECCM Gallente - Sensor Booster/Remote Sensor Booster Minmatar - Tracking Link/Tracking Computer These bonuses will make the frontline command ship have to be just that, on the front line. Making the fleet harder to lock down with electronic warfare, and making them more dangerous in a fleet command role.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Odyssey.	Posted - 2008.04.18 20:28:00 - [327] My fresh new idea Get tier 3 ships. Give recon resists so they can live a bit more. Now.. add the following capability 75% resistance to DD of type X to any ship within 15km. 50% resit to DD of types not X to ship within 15 km. But ONLY TO DOOMSDAYS Type X being EM to matari Explo to amarr etc... Idea. solve the excessive usage of titans. These ships could make a small group of ships ALMOST imune to titans. That force titans to have a sniper fleet go and try kill it before it tries to DD. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Odyssey.	Posted - 2008.04.20 11:02:00 - [328] Secodn Idea of mine. Besides fleet fire the other role BS serve is RR battleships fgangs. So.. improve those! Get current tier 3 ships. Exchange their tank bonus to a Remote repair bonus. The extra 2 new bonuses might be : 20% range to RR (armor or shield dependign on type) range per level. Other bonus may be varied per ship, like falloff for minmatar, cap usage for abaddon etc... Also stick recon levle resist on them for this. Well CCP didnt wanted marauders to be SOLO powmobiles. Well THIS ship is nothign but a NON solo ship. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
CptEav1s Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.20 15:08:00 - [329] Hey nice post, but just a little suggestion on my part: I only checked out the Gallente BS cause those are the ships I fly and the "Artimus" with 125m^3 dronebay as a drone ship is an insult to every drone pilot out there. I personally would recommend either replacing the Fleet Command bonus to information links with a bonus to dronebay or, even easier to do would be increase the standard dronebay to between 325m^3 - 350m^3. This will allow it to fit a decent amount of drones while still keeping it in check with other drone carriers. Because it already has reduced turret slots and no bonuses to large turrets it would not overpower. Anyway those are my suggestions for Gallente, other than that /signed Cheers - CptEav1s Sarge "Hey, Grif chupathingy how bout it? I like it got a ring to it" I BRAKE FOR PUMAS!
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.04.21 15:58:00 - [330] AMARR Name: Requiem Hull: Abaddon Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Carthum Conglomerate Carthum ships are the very embodiment of the Amarrian warfare philosophy. Possessing sturdy armor and advanced weapons systems, they provide a nice mix of offense and defense. On the other hand, their electronics and shield systems tend to be rather limited. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Energy Turret damage per level, 5% bonus armor Resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Capacitor Recharge Rate per level, 5% bonus to Large Energy Turret capacitor cost per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 10% bonus to Target Painter effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 4 mid / 8 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 20700 CPU: 530 Hard points: 8 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 6850 Shield Resistances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8750 Armor Resistances: 60/35/37.5/35 Hull HP: 8000 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 75m^3s Drone Bandwidth: 75 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6375 Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 80km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Radar 22 Signature Radius: 480m Scanner Resolution: 85 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Fusion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Amarr Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Amarr Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery IV --> Weapon Upgrade IV Name: Oblivion Hull: Abaddon Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Khanid Innovations In addition to robust electronics systems, the Khanid Kingdom's ships possess advanced armor alloys capable of withstanding a great deal of punishment. Generally eschewing the use of turrets, they tend to gear their vessels more towards close-range missile combat. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Torpedo velocity per level, 5% bonus to armor Resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Capacitor Recharge Rate per level, 3% bonus to effectiveness of Armored Warfare Links module per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 3 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 5 mid / 7 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 19500 CPU: 530 Hard points: 0 Turret/6 Launcher Shield HP: 7350 Shield Resistances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8150 Armor Resistances: 60/20/25/35s Hull HP: 8000 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3s Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6375 Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 80km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Radar 22 Signature Radius: 480m Scanner Resolution: 85 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Fusion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Amarr Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Amarr Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Armored Warfare Link III
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.04.21 15:59:00 - [331] CALDARI Name: Bastion Hull: Rohk Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Ishukone Most of the recent designs off their assembly line have provided for a combination that the Ishukone name is becoming known for: great long-range capabilities and shield systems unmatched anywhere else. Caldari Battleship Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range per level, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret damage per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 10% bonus to ECCM and Remote ECCM effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 14900 CPU: 750 Hard points: 7 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 9000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6750 Armor Resistances: 60/10/25/45 Hull HP: 7250 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Caldari Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Caldari Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery V --> Weapon Upgrade IV Name: Tsunami Hull: Rokh Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Kaalakiota As befits one of the largest weapons manufacturers in the known world, Kaalakiota's ships are very combat focused. Favoring the traditional Caldari combat strategy, they are designed around a substantial number of weapons systems, especially missile launchers. However, they have rather weak armor and structure, relying more on shields for protection. Cladari Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Missile Launcher explosion velocity per lever, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Siege Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 3 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 7 mid / 5 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 13500 CPU: 750 Hard points: 0 Turret/6 Launcher Shield HP: 9000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6500 Armor Resistances: 60/10/25/45 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Caldari Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Caldari Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Siege Warfare Link III
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.04.21 16:01:00 - [332] GALLENTE Name: Minerva Hull: Hyperion Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Duvolle Labs Duvolle Labs manufactures sturdy ships with a good mix of offensive and defensive capabilities. Since the company is one of New Eden's foremost manufacturers of particle blasters, its ships tend to favor turrets and thus have somewhat higher power output than normal. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Hybrid Turrets damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Armor Hit Points per level, 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret falloff per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 10% bonus to Sensor Booster and Remote Sensor Booster effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 5 mid / 7 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 15650 CPU: 570 Hard points: 7 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 7000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8350 Armor Resistances: 60/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8650 Velocity: 130m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Gallente Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Gallente Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery V --> Weapon Upgrade IV Name: Artimus Hull: Hyperion Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: CreoDron As the largest drone developer and manufacturer in space, CreoDron has a vested interest in drone carriers. While sacrificing relatively little in the way of defensive capability, the Artimus can chew its way through surprisingly strong opponents - provided, of course, that the pilot uses top-of-the-line CreoDron drones. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 10% bonus to drone Hit Points and Damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Armor Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Information Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 3 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 14150 CPU: 570 Hard points: 5 Turret/2 Launcher Shield HP: 7000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8500 Armor Resistances: 60/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8500 Velocity: 130m/s Drone Bay: 175m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 125 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Gallente Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Gallente Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Information Warfare Link III
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.04.21 16:02:00 - [333] MINMATAR Name: Conflagration Hull: Maelstrom Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Boundless Creations Boundless Creation's ships are based on the Brutor tribe's philosophy of warfare: simply fit as much firepower onto your ship as possible. Defense systems and electronics arrays therefore tend to take a back seat to sheer annihilative potential. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Projectile Turret damage per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Signature Radius reduction per level, 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret falloff per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 10% bonus to Tracking Link and Tracking Computer effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 18700 CPU: 610 Hard points: 8 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 7500 Shield Resistances: 15/60/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8000 Armor Resistances: 70/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 115m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Minmatar Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Minmatar Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Electronics V -> Gunnery V --> Weapon Upgrade IV Name: Halberd Hull: Maelstrom Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Core Complexion Core Complexion's ships are unusual in that they favor electronics and defense over the "lots of guns" approach traditionally favored by the Minmatar. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Signature Radius reduction per level, 3% bonus to Skirmish Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 3 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 High / 7 Mid / 5 Low / 2 rig Power Grid: 18100 CPU: 610 Hard points: 5 Turret/2 Launcher Shield HP: 8150 Shield Resistances: 15/60/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 7350 Armor Resistances: 70/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 115m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Minmatar Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Minmatar Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Skirmish Warfare Link III
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Odyssey.	Posted - 2008.04.21 22:26:00 - [334] No offense man. But your propositions dont improve any field of operation of battleships. Battleships are not used as gang bonus ships, that is work of another ton of ships. And when those are not capital ships they usually hide durign combat or they simply vanish. No one will brign a 1 bil battleship to do this job if a CS can already do it for less isk. Also bonus that make them good missions runners just screw marauders etc.. To suggest a new ship type you need to annalyse how fleet warfare is fought nowadays and find where some designers woudl focus to move their battleships. If you chsck current warfare you will see battleships are simply outdated by capital ships or nano gangs. Their only real of operation are both SNIPER and remote repair gangs. Both these roles now suffer very heavily with the omnipotence of capital ships, specially titans. So looking at that coudl be a better way of finding out a good and desirable ship. Making possible a sniper to survive let say 2 DD, but not making it overpowered on normal single combat. That could be a goal. Or making a very good RR gang battleship. Or find soemthign else, but just tryign to push more of what we already have won 't cut it. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Nova Fox Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.22 03:20:00 - [335] In comment about the devs statment on the flagships size. A flagship in a real navy is smaller than most carriers and even the battleship itself but somewhat larger than most destroyers/cruisers (real navy has them at the same size almost just one is meant to destroy oceanic threats and the other long range and above surface threats) The issue with 'real navy' battlecruiser sized flagships are is that majority of the sapce on the ship set aside for the mission, is almost entirely dedicated to command and control very little room for weapons or anything else. If the ship is the size of a battleship it may provide the ability to fit larger weapon systems to defend itself or provide limited offensive support. However if the ship is going to be a flag ship it should be able to have a few things tailored form the real ships. 1. Superior Electronics, these ships should be the hardest to dampen, jam, or limit thier ability to target or provide firing solutions for other ships (in other words target painting bonuses and very fast locking speeds for a battleship) in an eve era however extended resistances against other various ewars such as webbing and being painted itself. 2. Fleet Support, these class of ships provide a fleet wide bonuses for its extended 'knowledge' of the battlefield, so it would possibly be a good idea to have a fleet wide bonus to offensive abilities such as fall off (minmatar), optimal (caldari), tracking(gallente), and cap use(amarr), gang link modules fitting are in order BUT they shoudln't be bonused leaving the job to more capable and purposed roled ships.. 3. Advanced warning support, these class of ships would be able to prove a heads up on incoming threats this may be tied in with a secondary role such as advanced astrometrics (possible anti cloak probing but not going to cover that) this can also be interpeted with current bonuses for fleet wide support. Also would like to see a higher defensive ability than a murader greatly increasing thier survivability incase of primaried. Not sure if youd take any of my ideas into consideration. How to make feel low sec feel like low sec
alden good	Posted - 2008.04.22 03:49:00 - [336] maybe to make it just not a natural pwn ship u could add a siege mode of some sort so that it only really pwns once in that mode? that way you could only use this in certain tactical situations instead of just jumping in one of these real quick and popping people but thats my idea
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.04.25 15:54:00 - [337] a quick bump because I have not had time to respond.
Bruce Efcee	Posted - 2008.04.26 01:56:00 - [338] Edited by: Bruce Efcee on 26/04/2008 01:56:04 some loose ideas about flagships being t2 carriers: -bonus to being remote repped by other ships, the flagship will be often primary so its survivability will depend on support from the rest of the fleet -powerful gang bonus based on the flagship skill limited to grid the flagship is on, forcing the ship to stay in combat and centering combat around it. Bonus will have a stacking penalty with other present flagships in the same gang -immunity to ewar, being jammed the entire battle in a 7b isk ship wont be any fun -t2 resists -maybe something to let it deploy even more fighters
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.04.28 15:38:00 - [339] Carriers are already the most versitile of the capital ships. I think using them to make a T2 ship would be a mistake right now. Though I'm not trying to discourage the concept from being discussed. This thread is about T2 Tier 3 battleships as flagships. As for other bonuses, I'm very hesitant to belive that giving the Flagships what ammounts to be a logistics bonus would make them more flagship oriented. Flagships are, in my opinion, the command ship of the fleet. The ship that the commander of the entire navy might be stationed on. Traditionaly, thats all that a flagship has been. So the command bonuses are a given. Other than that, any bonus to improve the fleets overall effectiveness was a must by what i can figure.
Ellaine TashMurkon CBC Interstellar The Unseen Company	Posted - 2008.04.28 15:47:00 - [340] I see a tank problem here. A ship designed to command fleets will be primaried, by nature. In fleet scale, this means 30k DPS and more - insane damage to be tanked. If flagship can't tank it, but is expensive and gives good bonuses, it will be primaried and pop in the beginning of every battle. If it can tank it, it will become some absolute uberness in pve and small/medium gangs, a ship that cannot really be killed by anything below blob or a good bunch of capitals. For a variation (likely - T2 version) of a BS, you'd need some alternative way to survive concentrated fire.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.04.28 16:10:00 - [341] In large fleet operations, I would assume that there would be some from of logistic ship in the fleet. If not one, then multiple ships. This would go a long way to ensuring the survivablity of the ship. I do agree that trying to make it survive a massive fleet battle is very hard to do. And just giving it more tank is a bad plan for the reasons you have pointed out.
Kirgan Caldari Pyrognome	Posted - 2008.04.28 21:36:00 - [342] Maybe give the ship a damage modifier that reduces the percentage of damage based on the amount of DPS its taking. Very high DPS would do a small fraction of damage, but lower DPS would do a larger percentage of damage. They wouldnÆt be invulnerable, but they would be hard to take down without overpowering in small gangs. The Support Ships/Fleet would need to be all but destroyed to mount an affective attack on a Flagship. It would make them pointless to target at the beginning of a large engagement and also limit their effectiveness in small engagements.
Nova Fox Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.29 08:14:00 - [343] How about a bonus of increased resistance per ship attacking it? Decent resits against a gang of 10-20ish but in fleets in hundreds its be nearly invincible. smarter players would however just have a dedicated group to take out the flagship but like i said only a smarter FC would do it. Oh make sure it doenst get abused by getting shot by thier own fleet or friendlies. How to make feel low sec feel like low sec
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.04.30 15:00:00 - [344] Interesting ideas, however they suffer one problem. Note that the resistances would be based on the number of ships engaging it. So if i was to take my flagship and pop into a 10/10 complex. I could theoreticaly tank the entire complex with this system. Not to mention the fact that missioning would be a simple matter because I'm not going to die when I aggro the whole room. This bonus, I think, would have the nasty effect of removing Marauders from their place as the mission ships of eve. The problem with these ships is that in order to make them powerful enough to survive fleet engagements, one must make them very good at combat. Which in turn makes them awesome mission ships. I think that a slight increase in the base resitances might help. But other than that these ships are really ment for command and control. So in order to truely exploit their full capabilities, I want people to fleet up with them. Thus having the bonus to Cap Recharge/Armor HP/Shield HP/Sig radius forces people into a fleet to get its benefit. The Frontline Command Ship's bonus to anti E-War mods also helps in making sure that the ships are able to engage even if they are being locked down. While the Theater Command Ship is able to make the fleet around it much more dangerous. By no means are these designs perfect. Many people over the life of this thread have pointed out major flaws with the designs. Trying to ballance major game aspects for the ships is a lot more difficult than I thought. Other than giving them a mod specificaly for the ships, I can not think of any other way to truely make them more unique, at least not at this time.
Kirgan Caldari Pyrognome	Posted - 2008.04.30 22:31:00 - [345] Very good point, I didnÆt consider its use beyond what itÆs intended for. If it couldnÆt enter complexes and wasnÆt able to use warp gates, those problems might be alleviated as it isnÆt meant for anything beyond fleet battles. Gates can already exclude ships, so that change shouldnÆt be too difficult to implement. I havenÆt done Complexes for the most part, the few I did have had warp gates to get to them, and if all did then the gate ship exclusion should work. Quote: I'm overweight and I take karate. If you have a problem with that, I can really whale on you.
Nova Fox Gallente	Posted - 2008.05.01 00:20:00 - [346] you could have it so it only applies to pod piloted ships (players) but wed have a hard time trying to explain that one (maybe they got hackers screwing up the neocom of pod pilots onboard thus causing enemy fire to miss thier mark) Tender Ship's Logistics Sister Ship
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.05.05 16:28:00 - [347] Im not sure that making such a specific rule about such a very specific tank option. I don't think the database could take something like that. Plus imagine the petitions that would come in from people who are using in to "rat" saying things like "the system bugged and i was taking max damage from a serp battleship but not the fleet that came to eat me." I have been thinking about a module exclusively for the ship. might help out on the tank and dealing with blobs.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.05.08 15:18:00 - [348] I am going to be posting newer versions of the flagships soon. Changes will include giving the Frontline Command Ship a larger role bonus for their anti-ewar modules. Also going to change around which ship gets what bonuses. Not sure how i am going to go about doing that quite yet. I am also considering how i am going to increase the tank on the ships. Trying to make sure that they will live for a good amount of time in combat. Probably will restult in an increase in hit points overall.
Altaica Amur	Posted - 2008.05.08 21:26:00 - [349] Few comments... 1. Why does the Requiem have a TP bonus given the racial ecm for Amaar is the tracking disruptor? Also given the tracking that lasers usually get a TP dosen't seem incredibly useful for an amaar slanted force. 2. Why does the Bastion lose one of it's turret hard points, given the Requiem by comparison keeps it's own this dosen't seem to make tons of sense since it seems to be the firepower oriented Caldari Flagship, alternatively giving it more mids to effectively use it's ECCM bonuses would be very good at allowing it to preform strongly in one of those roles. 3. Minerva seems to have the same issue as the Bastion with hard points though I suspect it's 5 mid slots are sufficient for being effective with it's ecm given it dosen't have to tank with those slots. 4. I'm a bit concerned over the rather unique bonuses afforded the Amaar and Minmatar where the Caldari and Gallente simply get hp bonuses, it could be fine but it could also very easy be overpowered with their across the board benefit to every ship in the fleet. Otherwise these seem like well thought out and decently effective ships that would provide enough of a bump over command ships and battleships as to justify their hefty price tags without making them into unstoppable killing machines.
Karash Amerius Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.08 23:20:00 - [350] TBH, there are too many bonuses. The "Flagships" need something more unique that Command Ships and Carriers don't already do. This can/should be an entirely different gameplay mechanic in my opinion. ____________________________________________ "Fighting Broke" - An Ex-Merc Blog
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.05.09 16:53:00 - [351] The problem with the Target Painters for Amarr and Tracking Computers/Tracking Links for Minmatar will be adressed. The Bastion has one less turret because I did not want it to become a solo sniper platform of doom. Having the damage bonus and the range bonus means that the Rokh would become useless for sniping being out damaged and out ranged by a ship that was not intended to do either. The Minerva has reduced fittings to make sure it dose not become a solo gank ship. Having the ability to throw 8 blasters at a target and the added bonus for the sensor boosters means that the ship is already very dangerous 1 on 1. So I'm trying to make sure that the only thing it has on its side as any real advantage is its tank. The uniqueness of the bonuses on the flagships are not that unique. I ripped them directly from each races titan. They are litteraly the same bonus only not as powerful. Each races group of ships have their own unique advantages and disadvatages. I would disagree with the too many bonus point of view. Note the most T2 ships have as few as 4 and as many as 6. most of the capital ships have 6 or more. I am trying to reduce the number of bonuses though.
Altaica Amur	Posted - 2008.05.09 19:07:00 - [352] If that's your goal you might want to consider taking the 8th turret slot out of the Amaar and Minmatar ships to balance things out a bit I also suspect that the sheer cost of these ships would make people reluctant to employ them as snipers or as solo gankers.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.05.09 20:44:00 - [353] Note that the Amarr Requiem would have the same or close to the same dps as other ships in its class with the 8th turret slot. Lasers are massively cap hungery and also lack good dps compared to other turret classes. Thats why I gave that ship the 8th slot. The Minmatar Confligation gets an 8th slot because even though it would get massive DPS it would have poor range and tracking on its own, or great range and high volly but horrible tracking and aweful DPS. I think it ballances out. I will do some math to see what I can get.
Travis Shireen Gallente Ligue des Droits de L'Homme	Posted - 2008.05.13 05:00:00 - [354] What about making the Super Command ship for the gallenties a drone carrior (like the myrmadon)? - Player Action Points: A suppliment to Faction Warfare
Khyenn LaNayeur	Posted - 2008.05.13 06:07:00 - [355] Originally by: Balor Haliquin In large fleet operations, I would assume that there would be some from of logistic ship in the fleet. If not one, then multiple ships. This would go a long way to ensuring the survivablity of the ship. I do agree that trying to make it survive a massive fleet battle is very hard to do. And just giving it more tank is a bad plan for the reasons you have pointed out. What about if it gave the fleet a bonus to remote repair amount? or is that overpowered :P
DuPuy ELINT	Posted - 2008.05.13 08:53:00 - [356] Edited by: DuPuy on 13/05/2008 08:54:04 Additional idea: (haven't read all pages to see if it has already been suggested) Dual-pod control - One pod flies the ship and controls the weapons - One pod controls the fleet command functions. Anyone involved in even medium-scale combat would know how difficult it is to fight and command at the same time... Along the lines of dual-seat combat aircraft...
Aleis Minmatar Playboy Enterprises Dark Taboo	Posted - 2008.05.14 03:09:00 - [357] Edited by: Aleis on 14/05/2008 03:12:16 It's an interesting idea and the ability for a ship to give a passive bonus to a gang much like the leadership skills does give it a different role than other ships. However your giving them too much, specificly the ability to fit Gang link modules. Quote: Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Signature Radius reduction per level, 3% bonus to Skirmish Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: Ability to activate 3 warfare link models You have right there just made Fleet Command ships obsolete. heck made the entire reson for Battle cruisers to be the Fleet support as a secondary role obsolete. and it was already bad enough with carriers having the ability. Pick one or the other, passive bonus or gang links. (Give you a hint if you want my endorsment pick the origanal idea) Gang Assist Guide
Darth Felin	Posted - 2008.05.14 10:00:00 - [358] Originally by: Aleis gang bonuses work for anyone in the entire system, the Flagship doesn't have to be anywhere near the actual battlefield. Warp into the system then have your flaghisp pilot run off to a safespot, there you go all the tank you need, and it offers a good fleet support role of a safe place to run to when things go south. Gang bonuses work this way currently but it is good to remember that devs planned to change it to work on-grid only.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.05.14 16:05:00 - [359] I'm sure that the bonus to remote reps and shield transfers for this size ship with the bonuses it already has would effectively kill the Logistics Cruiser. Having a bonus to large remote reps would be awesome but i think it would cause more harm to the game then good. Good point on the possibility of the Theater Command Ship over running the Fleet Command Ship in form and function. I will try and change the bonuses as to make sure that dose not happen. The Gallente have a proposed super drone carrier, its called the Artimus. Dual pod control is probably not going to happen, i remeber one of the devs saying that the code was hard wired and could not be run as such. I hope to have the new designs up soon.
procurement specialist	Posted - 2008.05.14 17:03:00 - [360] why a t2 ship and not just a larger size? from crusier to battle cruiser sort of issue. Figure them at roughly 200-500m in mins for the hull which is still less than caps. Then a t2 variant of those could be these flag ships. The big brother to command ships. I just want a bs than can put on war links for a start. Just 1 like on my bc would be nice.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.05.14 17:30:00 - [361] I thought about that long and hard and i tried many concepts, but in the end i came to the conclusion that a ship of that type might in fact be orphaned by the shear difficulty of skilling for it. and the fact that simply skilling in other directions would net you more agile or more powerful ships. The T2 system is tried, tested and proven. I don't think there is a need to rock the boat on that.
procurement specialist	Posted - 2008.05.14 17:47:00 - [362] Edited by: procurement specialist on 14/05/2008 17:54:24 a caldari ops (operations platform ship) would take like caldari bs 3/4 and ops skill to 3/4. much less than training command ships imo. Edit. the idea is a slightly beefier tank and fitting to support the warlinks like a bc > a normal cruiser not a command ship > bc
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.05.16 16:53:00 - [363] Your idea seems interesting and may have some valid points. But, this thread in the forum is dedicated to the concept of Tech 2 Tier 3 battleships. Why not try and make your own forum thread and have people work on your idea?
procurement specialist	Posted - 2008.05.19 17:40:00 - [364] sorry. i didn't mean to derail your thread.
Kethry Avenger Krell-Korp	Posted - 2008.05.19 19:43:00 - [365] Any way that an Amarr Tech II ship can use enough missile hard points to let me have a way to fly my faction and not suck at Gurista and Angel missions sounds like a great idea to me. Not to mention a black Abaddon would be awesome.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.05.21 04:11:00 - [366] No problem, I just wanted to keep things focused. Thanks for the input though.
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2008.05.21 15:57:00 - [367] AMARR Name: Requiem Hull: Abaddon Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Carthum Conglomerate Carthum ships are the very embodiment of the Amarrian warfare philosophy. Possessing sturdy armor and advanced weapons systems, they provide a nice mix of offense and defense. On the other hand, their electronics and shield systems tend to be rather limited. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Energy Turret damage per level, 5% bonus armor Resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Capacitor Recharge Rate per level, 5% bonus to Large Energy Turret capacitor cost per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 20% bonus to Tracking Link and Tracking Computer effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 4 mid / 8 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 20700 CPU: 530 Hard points: 8 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 6850 Shield Resistances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 9000 Armor Resistances: 60/35/37.5/35 Hull HP: 8000 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 75m^3s Drone Bandwidth: 75 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6375 Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 80km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Radar 22 Signature Radius: 480m Scanner Resolution: 85 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Fusion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Amarr Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Amarr Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery IV --> Weapon Upgrade IV Name: Oblivion Hull: Abaddon Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Khanid Innovations In addition to robust electronics systems, the Khanid Kingdom's ships possess advanced armor alloys capable of withstanding a great deal of punishment. Generally eschewing the use of turrets, they tend to gear their vessels more towards close-range missile combat. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Torpedo velocity per level, 5% bonus to armor Resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Capacitor Recharge Rate per level, 3% bonus to effectiveness of Armored Warfare Links module per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 5 mid / 7 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 19500 CPU: 530 Hard points: 0 Turret/6 Launcher Shield HP: 7350 Shield Resistances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8400 Armor Resistances: 60/20/25/35s Hull HP: 8000 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3s Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6375 Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 80km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Radar 22 Signature Radius: 480m Scanner Resolution: 85 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Fusion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Amarr Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Amarr Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Armored Warfare Link III
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2008.05.21 15:59:00 - [368] CALDARI Name: Bastion Hull: Rohk Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Ishukone Most of the recent designs off their assembly line have provided for a combination that the Ishukone name is becoming known for great long-range capabilities and shield systems unmatched anywhere else. Caldari Battleship Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range per level, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret damage per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 20% bonus to ECCM and Remote ECCM effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 14900 CPU: 750 Hard points: 7 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 9250 Shield Resistances: 0/60/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6750 Armor Resistances: 60/10/25/45 Hull HP: 7250 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Caldari Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Caldari Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery V --> Weapon Upgrade IV Name: Tsunami Hull: Rokh Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Kaalakiota As befits one of the largest weapons manufacturers in the known world, Kaalakiota's ships are very combat focused. Favoring the traditional Caldari combat strategy, they are designed around a substantial number of weapons systems, especially missile launchers. However, they have rather weak armor and structure, relying more on shields for protection. Cladari Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Missile Launcher explosion velocity per level, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Siege Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 7 mid / 5 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 13500 CPU: 750 Hard points: 0 Turret/6 Launcher Shield HP: 9250 Shield Resistances: 0/60/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6500 Armor Resistances: 60/10/25/45 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Caldari Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Caldari Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Siege Warfare Link III
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2008.05.21 16:00:00 - [369] GALLENTE Name: Minerva Hull: Hyperion Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Duvolle Labs Duvolle Labs manufactures sturdy ships with a good mix of offensive and defensive capabilities. Since the company is one of New Eden's foremost manufacturers of particle blasters, its ships tend to favor turrets and thus have somewhat higher power output than normal. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Hybrid Turrets damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Armor Hit Points per level, 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret falloff per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 15% bonus to Sensor Booster and Remote Sensor Booster effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 5 mid / 7 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 15650 CPU: 570 Hard points: 7 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 7000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8350 Armor Resistances: 60/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8900 Velocity: 130m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Gallente Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Gallente Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery V --> Weapon Upgrade IV Name: Artimus Hull: Hyperion Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: CreoDron As the largest drone developer and manufacturer in space, CreoDron has a vested interest in drone carriers. While sacrificing relatively little in the way of defensive capability, the Artimus can chew its way through surprisingly strong opponents - provided, of course, that the pilot uses top-of-the-line CreoDron drones. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 10% bonus to drone Hit Points and Damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Armor Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Information Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 14150 CPU: 570 Hard points: 5 Turret/2 Launcher Shield HP: 7000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8500 Armor Resistances: 60/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8750 Velocity: 130m/s Drone Bay: 175m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 125 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Gallente Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Gallente Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Information Warfare Link III
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2008.05.21 16:02:00 - [370] MINMATAR Name: Conflagration Hull: Maelstrom Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Boundless Creations Boundless Creation's ships are based on the Brutor tribe's philosophy of warfare: simply fit as much firepower onto your ship as possible. Defense systems and electronics arrays therefore tend to take a back seat to sheer annihilative potential. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Projectile Turret damage per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Signature Radius reduction per level, 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret falloff per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 20% bonus to Target Painter effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 18700 CPU: 610 Hard points: 8 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 7650 Shield Resistances: 15/60/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8100 Armor Resistances: 70/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 115m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Minmatar Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Minmatar Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Electronics V -> Gunnery V --> Weapon Upgrade IV Name: Halberd Hull: Maelstrom Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Core Complexion Core Complexion's ships are unusual in that they favor electronics and defense over the "lots of guns" approach traditionally favored by the Minmatar. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Signature Radius reduction per level, 3% bonus to Skirmish Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 High / 7 Mid / 5 Low / 2 rig Power Grid: 18100 CPU: 610 Hard points: 5 Turret/2 Launcher Shield HP: 8300 Shield Resistances: 15/60/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 7350 Armor Resistances: 70/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7600 Velocity: 115m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Minmatar Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Minmatar Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Skirmish Warfare Link III
procurement specialist	Posted - 2008.05.21 16:32:00 - [371] my 2 problems with this are 1) there is currently no bs that can fit a warlink to base this ability off of. 2) the training to to get into command ships is horrendous and now a bs V requirement as well just seems like it would take so long to train for new people might as well train for a carrier.
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2008.05.24 20:52:00 - [372] I understand that there are no battleships that have the role bonus. However, if i wanted to make the ships capable of using warfare link modules i had to give them the bonus in order to make them fit on the ship. The skill requirements are more for a time sink than anything. The skills are ares to help people who want to make the jump to Carriers and or Dreadnought have a good majority of the skills they will need at the levels they would need them at. The only skills that the ship dose not require are the ones specific to capital ships.
Siigari Kitawa The Aduro Protocol	Posted - 2008.05.24 21:43:00 - [373] Yeah so I just got done reading this entire thread faints Okay. You have excellent, excellent ideas here. Consider this: The ship you are trying to create has the feeling of awe to it. You want perhaps one or two in a fleet being guarded by a massive swarm of protectors etc. Well, here's the thing. You have seemed to come to an impasse as to whether or not you want them to be harbingers of destruction or gigantic tanks. Which naturally is creating a dichotomy in your design. So, how do you solve that? Have one flagship be a dps mofo that focuses on giving the fleet gank and focus on the other one that gives the fleet tank. By doing that you balance the nature of the ship. The bonuses should be minimal... keep in mind a 5% increase in dps amongst an entire fleet brings HUGE dps overall. Same goes for a tank.. however that could be a different story. I like what I see. I also like the name flagship, unlike other posters who disagree. A flagship is commonly a ship that can travel around being accompanied by its fleet. Keep the name. Looking good :) www.siigarikitawa.com
Nova Fox	Posted - 2008.05.25 00:03:00 - [374] would it hurt to make something entirely new like the covert ops did with its covert cyno (about to gain a role by opeining cynos in jammed systems) New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2008.05.26 00:39:00 - [375] First of all, Siigari: take a break, eat some food, drink something. It must have been a chore and a half to read all of this thread front to back. Second, you idea is very interesting, but I see one flaw with it. Giving one ship fleet tank bonuses and the other fleet gank bonuses would be very dangerous. Imagive what would happen if both were in a fleet. The fleet would get a nice tank and gank bonus that would be out of control powerful in large fleets. Even in a small gang it would be amazingly powerful and hard to deal with. Even the bonus of only 5% tops would be amazing if the pilots in the fleet were highly skilled. Its a danger that I think might just be enough to scare CCP off. Not that it was not a good idea.
Siigari Kitawa The Aduro Protocol	Posted - 2008.05.26 02:04:00 - [376] Well, I meant the 5% per level. Keep in mind that old-school command ships brought about HUGE changes to fleets. Almost everyone had one in their gang and you noticed it. Ships were becoming awesome and incredible. Throw that onto a tech 2 battleship and you have omg wow. www.siigarikitawa.com
procurement specialist	Posted - 2008.05.27 02:17:00 - [377] are you thinking of a weak titan bonus? caldari would give like 2% shield hp per level so that on top of the other bonuses frome leadership your tank would get even bigger. then the damage specialist would get like 2% rof increase for all missile launchers? keep in mind the current max with implant is 15% shield hp and 2% 6 1.5 1.5 (base seige warfare V +500% * warfare link specialist V 150% * implant 150%) for 15% more shield hp and 27% resists (vulture gives 15% more bonus for 31% bonus) that all together gives about 1.5 Times effective shield hp if i did all that right. It is a really big bonus already at least in 1 area.
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2008.05.27 20:25:00 - [378] Remember that stacking penelties still apply. Also I want to avoid directly modifying the damage a fleet can put out. There are to many ways to use the bonus in a way thats not intended. The current designs have the titan bonus for each race on them but it less than what the titans give. That bonus is only useful in fleet so therefore is not nearly that dangerous. the difference between the two classes is that one is a Anti-Ewar and direct fire ship, the other is a support and mostly long range fire ship.
procurement specialist	Posted - 2008.05.27 20:58:00 - [379] i thought stacking penatlies apply per module and that the gang bonus warlinks and ship internal bonuses were not stacking penalized. i thought the drake and rohk shield resist bonus, warlink bonus and total module resist(with penalty figured on only modules) are cumulative.
Fofalus Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2008.05.27 21:11:00 - [380] Kind of off topic but you should remove the wall of edits from the op lol. Quote: Edited by: Balor Haliquin on 21/05/2008 16:07:54 Edited by: Balor Haliquin on 21/05/2008 16:07:28 Edited by: Balor Haliquin on 21/04/2008 16:14:31 Edited by: Balor Haliquin on 29/03/2008 18:44:58 Edited by: Balor Haliquin on 26/02/2008 20:53:09 Edited by: Balor Haliquin on 20/02/2008 16:26:03 Edited by: Balor Haliquin on 06/02/2008 17:57:41 Edited by: Balor Haliquin on 20/01/2008 04:25:04 Edited by: Balor Haliquin on 11/01/2008 05:37:37 Edited by: Balor Haliquin on 06/01/2008 07:05:59 Edited by: Balor Haliquin on 03/01/2008 17:21:56 Edited by: Balor Haliquin on 24/12/2007 22:16:54 Edited by: Balor Haliquin on 21/12/2007 19:07:57
procurement specialist	Posted - 2008.05.27 21:18:00 - [381] still saying we need a tech 1 vessel class between current bs and capitals to get this. I think balancing a t2 bs commandship versus the current t2 bs will just be too hard.
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2008.05.28 16:34:00 - [382] As far as i know, stacking penelties start with the first item that adds a bonus in addition to a part of the ship that already has a bonus on it. I'm not sure how that relates to gang bonuses but I'm sure its close to the same. As for a Rokh having a massive tank on it. Consider that the Titans have been flying around EVE for a couple of years now with much more potent versions of the bonuses that are currently on the Flagships. CCP has shown no intrest in changing out those bonuses. A Rohk with 25% more shield HP is definatly harder to kill but not at all impossible to kill. Focused fire from 2 battleships fitted properly will more than beat the Rokh's tank very quickly. These ships will help the fleet around them, thats what they are designed to do. AS for the huge pile of update labels, I have just been a little to lazy in cleaning that part up. Sorry.
procurement specialist	Posted - 2008.05.28 18:44:00 - [383] Originally by: Balor Haliquin As far as i know, stacking penelties start with the first item that adds a bonus in addition to a part of the ship that already has a bonus on it. I'm not sure how that relates to gang bonuses but I'm sure its close to the same. As for a Rokh having a massive tank on it. Consider that the Titans have been flying around EVE for a couple of years now with much more potent versions of the bonuses that are currently on the Flagships. CCP has shown no intrest in changing out those bonuses. A Rohk with 25% more shield HP is definatly harder to kill but not at all impossible to kill. Focused fire from 2 battleships fitted properly will more than beat the Rokh's tank very quickly. These ships will help the fleet around them, thats what they are designed to do. AS for the huge pile of update labels, I have just been a little to lazy in cleaning that part up. Sorry. I will try and check that out tonight then. a 27% stacking penalised to 10% is not that big. also titans are huge and expensive so it would be hard to get enough of them to blow fleet fights more than the DD already does.
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2008.06.02 15:51:00 - [384] bump Sorry i have not had time to respond to post new ideas lately.
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2008.06.08 16:10:00 - [385] It seems that the bonuses from ships are added either as the first bonus on the ship so are 100% effective or are uneffected by stacking penalties. But I still do not see how such bonuses would be game breaking.
Antaiir Eat My Shorts Inc. Freelancer Coalition	Posted - 2008.06.09 12:07:00 - [386] Great idea Balor, i like it Anta
Cyrus duBois	Posted - 2008.06.13 06:00:00 - [387] Nice work Balor. be nice to take one for a test drive
KingOzar Brute Strength THORN Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.13 06:13:00 - [388] Imo, Fleet Command 3 is way too much. I can see Wing Command 3 or 4, but anything above that and it isn't worth training for.
Sanadis Second Rising	Posted - 2008.06.13 06:22:00 - [389] These ships have been very well thought out. They would be nice for warfare, so their training time would be well worth it.
KingOzar Brute Strength THORN Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.13 06:33:00 - [390] Originally by: Sanadis These ships have been very well thought out. They would be nice for warfare, so their training time would be well worth it. Fleet Command 3? That's not worth any ship unless it's a tech 2 capital maybe. No ship with anything under a sub-capital tank is worth that much training.
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2008.06.13 23:26:00 - [391] Thanks for pointing that out. The requierments are not supposed to be Fleet Commander III it supposed to be Fleet Commander I. I'll change that as soon as I get a list built for things that need to be changed.
Balor Haliquin	Posted - 2008.06.18 15:23:00 - [392] bump
procurement specialist	Posted - 2008.06.18 17:09:00 - [393] fleet command 1 requires wing command V. that is the problem i beleive. More of a wing command 4 thing and save fleet command for use with titans and motherships.
Rogen DarHeel Rogen's Heroes	Posted - 2008.06.18 17:21:00 - [394] A flagship should not be a BS.. A flag ships should be a dread, carrier, mothership, Titan kind of ship
El Yatta Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.06.18 23:01:00 - [395] What is the point of these ships except to undermine command ships, carriers and titans? I would prefer t2 tier3s with a ROLE. I have proposed my own the tactical environments thread, but I dont think that is a definitive version. Its certainly better than the OP of this though. _______________________________________________ Mercenary Forces
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.06.29 14:42:00 - [396] What a flagship should or should not be is not really the focus here. I called them flagships to give them a name, thats really it. They are simply tech 2 tier 3 battleships designed for the fleet support and command and control end of the fleet. I don't see how these ships would undermine the abilities and capabilities of a titan/mother ship/carrier. Those ships are so much more than just command and control ships. As for underminning the command ships, I would need a bit more information on how you see these designs underminning the those ships.
Terex193 Amarr Heretic Army Heretic Nation	Posted - 2008.07.02 15:16:00 - [397] My $0.02 Flagships should be a sort of Tier 2 Dreadnaught or t2 Dread. Cause' if u think of it, Flagships are the lead of the fleet, so even a Tech 3 bc >:) or tier 3 command(Like a t2 Harbinger!) But yea i like the idea of flagships, just don't think of it as a battleship. I like t2 Tier 2 bcs, or dreadnaughts... Well thats my $0.02
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.07.10 17:00:00 - [398] Going to take sugestions that have been made over the past couple of weeks and put up new ships stats. Thanks for the input everyone. I should have them up in a couple of days.
Nova Fox Gallente	Posted - 2008.07.10 17:53:00 - [399] There are talks about some things of factional warfare leaking over to 0.0 warfare. Like gatecapturing in order to change system sov and other factors. Are you considering any of these possibilities for your ships. IE a presence of a flag ship in the control zone cranks up the timer instead of pausing when contested when defending? Also it would make sense if these ships are superior data linking ships being able to handle tonns of information all at once including fire control solutions, any purposed plans to have offensivly based fleet wide bonuses instead of the defensive ones that the titans have? Gallente Sensors, Caldari Radius of guns and munitions, Minmatar Tracking, Amarr Rate of fire just for simple suggestions. New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.07.12 22:01:00 - [400] HMMMMMMmmmmmm I say returns to drawing board and scribbles furiously
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2008.07.13 04:25:00 - [401] Well its always easier for me to come up with ships whose roles currently dont exist its almost like being a kid in a candy store room to expand and little to be compared against and toe stepping on. New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister
NanDe YaNen The Funkalistic	Posted - 2008.07.13 05:08:00 - [402] Originally by: Darth Felin Gang bonuses work this way currently but it is good to remember that devs planned to change it to work on-grid only. If this is the case, there's a major issue of how to have a high-influence asset on the battlefield that doesn't have to be tanked to a ridiculous extreme. It would be very boring for the fight to revolve around who can kill the enemy booster first or whether you can protect your own booster ship. More DPS/tank per second == win? Decouple the ship's ability to tank capital sized damage and survivability. Give it some decoy probes that prevent cap-ships from being able to achieve lock but still leave it having to tank ships with faster sensors. High resits == high HP buffer and very effective carrier support, making it potentially a bad decision to try and take out the booster ship first. A very good way to have a flagship that doesn't die instantly and doesn't have to be a Titan++ to have any lifetime on the battlefield.
Korran Minare Gallente Spaced Cowboys	Posted - 2008.07.14 21:24:00 - [403] waits eagerly for balors new set of specs, and looks longinly at the empty spots in my hangar reserved for the Gallente versions Originally by: Korran Minare what would you put on space pizza anyway???? Support Flagships
Xzar Fyrarr Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2008.07.15 04:25:00 - [404] Nice I like it :D I remember bringing up this idea a couple months or so ago as I didn't see a thread on the topic yet. Question:Seeing as how Flagships seem to be a very specialized ship, why not make one of the requirement for skills to be CommandShips lvl 5? I mean, it is a specialized ship, and right now at this day and age, it seems like most people can fly commandships? Also, should the Flagships have a stacking penalty -per ship- or should the fleet be limited to only* one Flagship* - seeing as how they are "Flagships"- per fleet? I mean, imagine 3 Artimus being in the same fleet composed of mainly gallente ships with some other races ships here and there. That would be 150% bonus to drone hitpoints per lvl PLUS the bonus the said fleet members get from their own ships. I can see that being incredibly overpowered should people take the time to invest in the skills. I didn't read through all of the 14 pages because of time but I'll read through it tomorrow
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.07.16 02:14:00 - [405] Okay, quick clarification. The reason I don't have the requirements for the skills at 5 is because doing so would make them prohibitively long in skilling. Plus fallowing the presidence set by CCP with other tech 2 ships that are based off the abilities of other T2 ships. For example an Assault Ship requires level 5 racial frigate, a Heavy Assault Ship requires Assault Ship 4, a Command Ship requires Heavy Assault Ship 5. So thats the idea that I was working off. As for fleet bonuses, they work off whomever has the highest bonus. And that effect trickles down from the top. So there is no fleet stacking bonus. The issue with limiting the number of ships of a class in a fleet is that EVE is not setup to do such a thing. So even though its called a flagship, it may not even be in the fleet command position or even piloted by the boss. Also note that these ships are called flagships for now, if they ever make it into the game they could be called something completely different. I have no power over that. Im working on updates for the ships which should be up soon. Thanks for all the input.
La Merovingian	Posted - 2008.07.18 06:19:00 - [406] Signed. I think this is a fantastic idea. Either as a Tier 3 T2 Battleship, or even a Tier 2 T2 Battlecruiser. I'd happily fly one. What about something like the Heavy Interdictors? Gets mad bonuses to tanks and can give mad bonuses to the gang, but it's immobile when the new special command modules are activated? Just a thought...
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2008.07.20 22:35:00 - [407] Roleplay wise There are already two flagships in the game, the mordus honor and the mordus glory, scorpion and raven respectfully, thier role is unknown but nobody ever challenged them or ever seen the ships since thier debute. New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.07.23 15:32:00 - [408] Im having some issues trying to figure out a way to give a universal damage bonus (Rate of fire, Damage) to the frontline command ships. Any sugestions are welcome, i want to keep it low so as to prevent the ship from completely over shadowing other command and control ships in the game.
Patrice Macmahon Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.01 02:31:00 - [409] Edited by: Patrice Macmahon on 01/08/2008 02:32:31 Ignore my comment. Skills are appropriately adressed.... bump - The Intakies have the obligation to the Federation to defend citizenship and liberties. But that defence does not nessicarrily warrant an act of agression.
Hawkster222	Posted - 2008.08.01 03:35:00 - [410] uh... say hello to our new 1-2 years in training ship... :)
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.01 15:34:00 - [411] Yah I noticed that from the start its going to take a while to skill for these ships. And noting that the other two tech 2 battleships are much easier on skills I,ll have to look into that. Still working on the new versions of the ships though, will be done soon I hope.
d3vo The Space BorderLine United For 0rder	Posted - 2008.08.01 16:29:00 - [412] I don't think this ship is a good idea. At the moment, T1 Battleships are the most valued in the game (besides capitals) and it should stay that way. __________ \(^.^)/
Munio Veritas	Posted - 2008.08.02 00:26:00 - [413] Edited by: Munio Veritas on 02/08/2008 00:26:48 Just in case it wasn't pointed out before, you spelled "Artemis" wrong. Not to be a jerk or anything...
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.02 01:24:00 - [414] I did? How dose one spell it?
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.09 19:23:00 - [415] GALLENTE Name: Minerva Hull: Hyperion Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Duvolle Labs Duvolle Labs manufactures sturdy ships with a good mix of offensive and defensive capabilities. Since the company is one of New Eden's foremost manufacturers of particle blasters, its ships tend to favor turrets and thus have somewhat higher power output than normal. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Hybrid Turrets damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Armor Hit Points per level, 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret falloff per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 15% bonus to Sensor Booster and Remote Sensor Booster effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 5 mid / 7 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 15650 CPU: 570 Hard points: 7 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 7000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8350 Armor Resistances: 60/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8900 Velocity: 130m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command I --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Gallente Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Gallente Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery V --> Weapon Upgrade IV Name: Artimus Hull: Hyperion Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: CreoDron As the largest drone developer and manufacturer in space, CreoDron has a vested interest in drone carriers. While sacrificing relatively little in the way of defensive capability, the Artimus can chew its way through surprisingly strong opponents - provided, of course, that the pilot uses top-of-the-line CreoDron drones. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 10% bonus to drone Hit Points and Damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Armor Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Information Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 14150 CPU: 570 Hard points: 5 Turret/2 Launcher Shield HP: 7000 Shield Resistances: 0/60/40/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8500 Armor Resistances: 60/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8750 Velocity: 130m/s Drone Bay: 175m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 125 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command I --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Gallente Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Gallente Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Information Warfare Link III
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.09 19:25:00 - [416] MINMATAR Name: Firestorm Hull: Maelstrom Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Boundless Creations Boundless Creation's ships are based on the Brutor tribe's philosophy of warfare: simply fit as much firepower onto your ship as possible. Defense systems and electronics arrays therefore tend to take a back seat to sheer annihilative potential. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Projectile Turret damage per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Signature Radius reduction per level, 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret falloff per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 20% bonus to Target Painter effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 18700 CPU: 610 Hard points: 8 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 7650 Shield Resistances: 15/60/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8100 Armor Resistances: 70/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 115m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command I --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Minmatar Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Minmatar Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Electronics V -> Gunnery V --> Weapon Upgrade IV Name: Halberd Hull: Maelstrom Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Core Complexion Core Complexion's ships are unusual in that they favor electronics and defense over the "lots of guns" approach traditionally favored by the Minmatar. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Signature Radius reduction per level, 3% bonus to Skirmish Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 High / 7 Mid / 5 Low / 2 rig Power Grid: 18100 CPU: 610 Hard points: 5 Turret/2 Launcher Shield HP: 8300 Shield Resistances: 15/60/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 7350 Armor Resistances: 70/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7600 Velocity: 115m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command I --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Minmatar Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Minmatar Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Skirmish Warfare Link III
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.09 19:49:00 - [417] I reduced the skill requirments on all the ships have been reduced to make it more in line for skilling time. I also corrected some spelling mistakes and other such errors that people kindly pointed out. I'm trying to figure out how to make the combat bonuses for the Frontline Command Ship. Here are my ideas. AMARR - 3% bonus to Turret optimal range per level. Caldari - 3% bonus to Missile flight time per level Gallente - 3% bonus to Turret falloff per level Minmatar - 3% bonus to Turret tracking per level
Strill	Posted - 2008.08.09 21:49:00 - [418] Originally by: Balor Haliquin GALLENTE Name: Minerva Hull: Hyperion Role: Frontline Command Ship Minerva does sound better, but shouldn't it be "Athena"? All the Gallente ships named after Greko-Roman deities currently use the Greek names.
Lusulpher Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2008.08.09 22:32:00 - [419] Edited by: Lusulpher on 09/08/2008 22:33:22 I thought this was going to be overpowered but I see genuine attempt to balance. Got my support. Like how the skills half-sync with carriers, but diverge enough to make sure not all carrier pilots will have one of these playthings to roll around in. This will about fill the last ship class needed for EVE(besides mini-freighter). A great idea sitting here CCP. Edit: Is the Hyperion name correct as to naming convention? Live and Let Die...All of it...null
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.09 22:50:00 - [420] The Minerva was originaly called the Athena. But after having a huge debate with other Gallente pilots turned up the name Minerva and thats the one being used ever since. I could change it back to Athena, if that is the opinion of the public.
Strill	Posted - 2008.08.09 23:07:00 - [421] Originally by: Lusulpher Edit: Is the Hyperion name correct as to naming convention? Yes. Hyperion is Greek.
Kethry Avenger Krell-Korp	Posted - 2008.08.10 21:12:00 - [422] Yep still dreaming of a Khanid Battleship with at least the equivalent of 6 launcher hard points, and a good armor tank.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.11 06:37:00 - [423] I present the with the Oblivion Its all shiny and BLACK! I would love to see the Khanid scroll work on the side of an Abaddon, almost as much as I would love to see the deep gold and red accents for a Carthum based Abaddon. Though its all up to CCP at this point as to weather there will ever be ships like that.
Pheleus Federation of Freedom Fighters	Posted - 2008.08.11 09:33:00 - [424] Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics V -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Information Warfare Link III Logi 4 would seem to fit better unless you change the HAC skill to 5 also seems unblanced to require an extra 30 (guess) days of training for the threater ship. Phel godo idea though like a mini titan :))
S'vart Tseirgn Caldari	Posted - 2008.08.11 09:57:00 - [425] Wow! Op - That's some impressive work! Very nice idea - I'd like to see this one implemented for sure...and as prev stated it would be a nice step between BS & Caps. Excellent work on the balancing btw
Grarr Dexx Amarr Avenging United	Posted - 2008.08.11 11:33:00 - [426] The oblivion seems rather limited, and as a slow abaddon hull would barely be able to make anything of it's bonused torps as it would never be able to get within that 55-65km range...
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.11 15:32:00 - [427] Okay logoistics 4 is a fair assertion for ballance in skilling. Ill have to change that. The limitations on the oblivion are to make sure to dose not beat out the Raven for king of large missile throwers. Granted it is a tech 2 ship and has a very good tank on it, but i don't want the Raven diven to uselessness. It is already under heave siege from Navy Issue Raven and the Golem. Plus Amarr are kings of lasers not missiles. I'm sure that this ships abilities would be shown if it gets implemented into the game. AS for the 54k range of torpedos and the lack of anything getting there. Remeber that torpedos are the close range weapons for missiles, they have the same range issues that blaster/pulse lasers/auto cannons have. And those weapons do fine in PvP and PvE.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.11 16:12:00 - [428] Considering that all the other Tech 2 ships have the resistance bonus fro being Tech 2 on both their shields and armor, im going to change the flagship to reflect that. Currently they only have either shields or armor. Also have to change the highest resistance because of the recent change to all ship resistances. As in the change from a 0/60/40/20 to a 0/50/40/20 for shields and similar for armor.
Kal Shanai	Posted - 2008.08.12 00:44:00 - [429] Fully support the idea, you've put in some real effort in thinking up these ships, and theyre worthy of being put into the game.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.12 15:53:00 - [430] AMARR Name: Requiem Hull: Abaddon Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Carthum Conglomerate Carthum ships are the very embodiment of the Amarrian warfare philosophy. Possessing sturdy armor and advanced weapons systems, they provide a nice mix of offense and defense. On the other hand, their electronics and shield systems tend to be rather limited. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Energy Turret damage per level, 5% bonus armor Resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Capacitor Recharge Rate per level, 5% bonus to Large Energy Turret capacitor cost per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 20% bonus to Tracking Link and Tracking Computer effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 4 mid / 8 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 20700 CPU: 530 Hard points: 8 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 6850 Shield Resistances: 0/65/52.5/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 9000 Armor Resistances: 50/35/37.5/35 Hull HP: 8000 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 75m^3s Drone Bandwidth: 75 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6375 Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 80km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Radar 22 Signature Radius: 480m Scanner Resolution: 85 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Fusion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command I --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Amarr Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Amarr Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery IV --> Weapon Upgrade IV Name: Oblivion Hull: Abaddon Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Khanid Innovations In addition to robust electronics systems, the Khanid Kingdom's ships possess advanced armor alloys capable of withstanding a great deal of punishment. Generally eschewing the use of turrets, they tend to gear their vessels more towards close-range missile combat. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Torpedo velocity per level, 5% bonus to armor Resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Capacitor Recharge Rate per level, 3% bonus to effectiveness of Armored Warfare Links module per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 5 mid / 7 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 19500 CPU: 530 Hard points: 0 Turret/6 Launcher Shield HP: 7350 Shield Resistances: 0/65/52.5/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8400 Armor Resistances: 50/35/37.5/35 Hull HP: 8000 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3s Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6375 Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 80km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Radar 22 Signature Radius: 480m Scanner Resolution: 85 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Fusion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command I --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Amarr Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Amarr Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics IV -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Armored Warfare Link III
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.12 15:55:00 - [431] CALDARI Name: Bastion Hull: Rohk Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Ishukone Most of the recent designs off their assembly line have provided for a combination that the Ishukone name is becoming known for great long-range capabilities and shield systems unmatched anywhere else. Caldari Battleship Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range per level, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret damage per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 20% bonus to ECCM and Remote ECCM effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 14900 CPU: 750 Hard points: 7 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 9250 Shield Resistances: 0/50/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6750 Armor Resistances: 50/10/50/57.5 Hull HP: 7250 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command I --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Caldari Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Caldari Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery V --> Weapon Upgrade IV Name: Tsunami Hull: Rokh Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Kaalakiota As befits one of the largest weapons manufacturers in the known world, Kaalakiota's ships are very combat focused. Favoring the traditional Caldari combat strategy, they are designed around a substantial number of weapons systems, especially missile launchers. However, they have rather weak armor and structure, relying more on shields for protection. Cladari Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Missile Launcher explosion velocity per level, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Siege Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 7 mid / 5 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 13500 CPU: 750 Hard points: 0 Turret/6 Launcher Shield HP: 9250 Shield Resistances: 0/50/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6500 Armor Resistances: 50/10/50/57.5 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command I --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Caldari Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Caldari Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics IV -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Siege Warfare Link III
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.12 15:57:00 - [432] GALLENTE Name: Athena Hull: Hyperion Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Duvolle Labs Duvolle Labs manufactures sturdy ships with a good mix of offensive and defensive capabilities. Since the company is one of New Eden's foremost manufacturers of particle blasters, its ships tend to favor turrets and thus have somewhat higher power output than normal. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Hybrid Turrets damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Armor Hit Points per level, 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret falloff per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 15% bonus to Sensor Booster and Remote Sensor Booster effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 5 mid / 7 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 15650 CPU: 570 Hard points: 7 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 7000 Shield Resistances: 0/50/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8350 Armor Resistances: 50/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8900 Velocity: 130m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command I --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Gallente Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Gallente Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery V --> Weapon Upgrade IV Name: Artimus Hull: Hyperion Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: CreoDron As the largest drone developer and manufacturer in space, CreoDron has a vested interest in drone carriers. While sacrificing relatively little in the way of defensive capability, the Artimus can chew its way through surprisingly strong opponents - provided, of course, that the pilot uses top-of-the-line CreoDron drones. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 10% bonus to drone Hit Points and Damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Armor Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Information Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 14150 CPU: 570 Hard points: 5 Turret/2 Launcher Shield HP: 7000 Shield Resistances: 0/50/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8500 Armor Resistances: 50/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8750 Velocity: 130m/s Drone Bay: 175m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 125 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command I --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Gallente Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Gallente Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics IV -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Information Warfare Link III
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.12 15:58:00 - [433] MINMATAR Name: Firestorm Hull: Maelstrom Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Boundless Creations Boundless Creation's ships are based on the Brutor tribe's philosophy of warfare: simply fit as much firepower onto your ship as possible. Defense systems and electronics arrays therefore tend to take a back seat to sheer annihilative potential. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Projectile Turret damage per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Signature Radius reduction per level, 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret falloff per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 20% bonus to Target Painter effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 18700 CPU: 610 Hard points: 8 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 7650 Shield Resistances: 15/50/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8100 Armor Resistances: 75/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 115m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command I --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Minmatar Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Minmatar Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Electronics V -> Gunnery V --> Weapon Upgrade IV Name: Halberd Hull: Maelstrom Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Core Complexion Core Complexion's ships are unusual in that they favor electronics and defense over the "lots of guns" approach traditionally favored by the Minmatar. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Signature Radius reduction per level, 3% bonus to Skirmish Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 High / 7 Mid / 5 Low / 2 rig Power Grid: 18100 CPU: 610 Hard points: 5 Turret/2 Launcher Shield HP: 8300 Shield Resistances: 15/50/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 7350 Armor Resistances: 75/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7600 Velocity: 115m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command I --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Minmatar Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Minmatar Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics IV -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Skirmish Warfare Link III
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.12 16:09:00 - [434] Changes: The resistances for armor and shields have been fixed to make the ships more in line with other T2 ships. Minerva has its name changed back to Athena The resistances have been changed to reflect in game changes to base resistances for armor and shields. The Theater Command Ship has had its skill requirements reduced. It now requires Logistics IV instead of Logistics V Thanks for all the input guys. Hope to have more comments soon.
Somealt Ofmine	Posted - 2008.08.14 22:13:00 - [435] I could fly and build one of these on my main (and I'd love to) but totally imbalancing. The ships aren't really THAT overpowered, it's true, but if the materials ratio from tier 2 to tier 3 BS remained the same in the T2 variant, these guys would cost 1 - 1.2 billion a copy even after the price stablized a bit. A fleet of them would absolutely shred at T-1 BS fleet, and pretty much laugh at DDs. He with the most isk wins?
Jim Hazard	Posted - 2008.08.15 08:22:00 - [436] Originally by: Somealt Ofmine I could fly and build one of these on my main (and I'd love to) but totally imbalancing. The ships aren't really THAT overpowered, it's true, but if the materials ratio from tier 2 to tier 3 BS remained the same in the T2 variant, these guys would cost 1 - 1.2 billion a copy even after the price stablized a bit. A fleet of them would absolutely shred at T-1 BS fleet, and pretty much laugh at DDs. He with the most isk wins? If I take a fleet of T1 BS and put a fitting on each of those for a billion that fleet is gonna shred a T2 fitted BS fleet as well. Do we remove Officer / Faction stuff because of that?
Meuchelmorder C0LDFIRE	Posted - 2008.08.15 09:46:00 - [437] I would vote to increase requirements to Spaceship Command V and Advanced Spaceship Command 2 (to give players a reason to train adv spaceship command and get a bonus on something not quite a capital/freighter) I like Fleet Command 1, Warfare Link Spec IV is required for Command Ship. I would vote to Raise this to 5. You are giving caldari increases on shield amount per flagship level but gallente increases on armor when their links are information? Bad call. I think there needs to be an infowarfare bonus for gallente ships. Amarr should provide Armor amount bonuses. Might make the Amarr version the one to have ;-) IMO bonuses should be based on the command links the ships are specialized for. they are after all 'command ships.' That being said, I like the cap recharge time on amarr. and that alone would mean amarr would always lead the fleet. If you think all of those other bonuses would boost tank performance, imagine increased shield rep! Can you say triple rep BS? thanks for your time. Originally by: Zhulik I thought Premium graphics were supposed to fix that bug where people were trying to salvage Minmatar ships.
Somealt Ofmine	Posted - 2008.08.15 12:35:00 - [438] Edited by: Somealt Ofmine on 15/08/2008 12:39:31 Edited by: Somealt Ofmine on 15/08/2008 12:36:23 Originally by: Jim Hazard Originally by: Somealt Ofmine I could fly and build one of these on my main (and I'd love to) but totally imbalancing. The ships aren't really THAT overpowered, it's true, but if the materials ratio from tier 2 to tier 3 BS remained the same in the T2 variant, these guys would cost 1 - 1.2 billion a copy even after the price stablized a bit. A fleet of them would absolutely shred at T-1 BS fleet, and pretty much laugh at DDs. He with the most isk wins? If I take a fleet of T1 BS and put a fitting on each of those for a billion that fleet is gonna shred a T2 fitted BS fleet as well. Do we remove Officer / Faction stuff because of that? I'm guessing you haven't officer/faction fit a ship in a while. Tell me how you'd spend a billion and be superior to one of these with a T2 fit. Not to meantion the fact that you can't really mass produce officer/faction mods and make them the new fleet standard for the wealthy. If you could, they wouldn't be nearly as expensive as they are now, and you might actually see fleets using them.
Jim Hazard	Posted - 2008.08.15 14:00:00 - [439] Originally by: Somealt Ofmine Edited by: Somealt Ofmine on 15/08/2008 12:39:31 Edited by: Somealt Ofmine on 15/08/2008 12:36:23 Originally by: Jim Hazard Originally by: Somealt Ofmine I could fly and build one of these on my main (and I'd love to) but totally imbalancing. The ships aren't really THAT overpowered, it's true, but if the materials ratio from tier 2 to tier 3 BS remained the same in the T2 variant, these guys would cost 1 - 1.2 billion a copy even after the price stablized a bit. A fleet of them would absolutely shred at T-1 BS fleet, and pretty much laugh at DDs. He with the most isk wins? If I take a fleet of T1 BS and put a fitting on each of those for a billion that fleet is gonna shred a T2 fitted BS fleet as well. Do we remove Officer / Faction stuff because of that? I'm guessing you haven't officer/faction fit a ship in a while. Tell me how you'd spend a billion and be superior to one of these with a T2 fit. Not to meantion the fact that you can't really mass produce officer/faction mods and make them the new fleet standard for the wealthy. If you could, they wouldn't be nearly as expensive as they are now, and you might actually see fleets using them. Well.. you do not need a complete faction fit to have a superior fleet. Also you do not need the absolutely best equipment. Just as little expample Fleet A and B Both have 50 Abaddons each. Fleet A is fitting 2 Corpum A-Type eans on each abaddon and 1 DCU II + 4 1600mm Plates +3x T1 Trimarks. Each of those has 315k EHP. Fleet B is fitting T2 EANS Instead. Each of those has 250k EHP. (Both fleets with gang Bonus and no implants). Which fleet is going to win? Of course Fleet A because in Fleet A each ship has a lot more hitpoints. Also fleet A can use remote repair tactics with a much higher efficiancy because of a quite big difference in resistances. Fleet A: 85,7% EM 81,5% Therm 78,6% Kin 77,2% Exp Fleet B: 81,3% EM 75,7% Therm 71,9% Kin 70,1% Exp This would be a price difference of arround 1 Billion per ship (yes i know its a little bit more, but 200 million more or less do not really matter there in the end). And it makes quite a difference.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.15 15:02:00 - [440] Okay I have given a lot of thought to the possibility of putting Advanced Spaceship Command on these ships as a requirement. Requiring one or two levels would not add much to the total training time of the ships. The reason I have not done so is because that these ships were, at one point, aproaching 6 months of decicated training time. I would like to refine the training list a little bit more before I start adding in skills again. The reason for the fleet bonuses being the way they are, as in Amarr getting better cap recharge and so on, is because they were lifted directly from the Titans of each race. They are significantly less powerful then the versions on the Titans though. As for the ships laughing at a Titan's Doomsday Device? I would like to point out that a DD has a hard time dropping almost any Battleship is one hit. There are even some Battlecruisers that laugh at the DD. So as far as imbalance there I'm not sure I see what you are talking about. The bonuses on the ships as they are now are good for making the ships more survivable, along with the fleet surrounding them. Gallente have one of the ships that gives a bonus to Information Warfare links in the designs. The cost for construction on these ships is subject more towards market influences then anything els. I would like to note that the starting prices of Marauders and Black-Ops ships was hovering around a billion isk when they were fist released. I'm not saying that these ships are going to be cheep. That is part of the restriction on that ship. It is a way to prevent the ships from becomming too numerous too fast. Assuming that a group managed to get a fleet of these ships together, it would be rather easy and cheap to take them down. For every fitted Flagship, you could go on the market and buy and fit two to three Megathrons or some similar such ship. At that rate you are going to be outnumbering the flagships three to one and in this case the bigger blob wins. Not to mention the fact that with a fleet made up inly of Flagships they would be unable to effectively jam or tackle any ships that might come along. So if a iwas the fleet commander I would take maybe one of each race and call it a day with those class ships. And thats only if I was commanding a very large fleet that had at least 4 squads.
Kethry Avenger Krell-Korp	Posted - 2008.08.15 20:18:00 - [441] I disagree with adding advanced spaceship command, why would you train a skill on a ship that has no effect on it. ASC is for capital ships.
Jim Hazard	Posted - 2008.08.16 01:22:00 - [442] Originally by: Kethry Avenger I disagree with adding advanced spaceship command, why would you train a skill on a ship that has no effect on it. ASC is for capital ships. The advanced operation of spaceships. Grants a 5% Bonus per skill level to the agility of ships requiring Advanced Spaceship Command. Cannot be trained on Trial Accounts. Just because this only is the case for Caps so far, it does not mean it could not be applied to other ships as well.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.16 02:43:00 - [443] Several issues with giving these ships the access to the bonus from that skill is trying to deal with the effects of having a rely fast turning ship. One could make it less maneuverable to compensate for it but in all honesty i think thats a bit more complexity then is needed.
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2008.08.16 04:24:00 - [444] Hey mr Balor mind looking at my tenderships and weigh your opinion in if you got the time? New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister
Kethry Avenger Krell-Korp	Posted - 2008.08.16 05:15:00 - [445] Originally by: Jim Hazard The advanced operation of spaceships. Grants a 5% Bonus per skill level to the agility of ships requiring Advanced Spaceship Command. Cannot be trained on Trial Accounts. Just because this only is the case for Caps so far, it does not mean it could not be applied to other ships as well. Good point but I still disagree for adding any more skills to this, I think the BS 5 and level 4 command ship are well in line with requirements at this level. No need to add another x days to it just cause.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.16 19:54:00 - [446] Im going to use EVE MON to figure out the skilling times for most of the ships. That way I can show everyone how long from start to finish it will take.
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2008.08.16 23:52:00 - [447] Have you thought of your ship being used for roles other than fleet leadership? for example does this ship's performance able to rival faction battleships or the muraders? Also any backup alternative plans for the capture timers suggested for the 0.0 soverinty (the ones currently used in FW) New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.17 01:07:00 - [448] A lot of the timers and changes to soverinty is going to depend on what is implemented and how it is implemented. I'm not going to speculate on how this ship might change as a result of mechanics that are not in game yet. Yes I have done a lot of though to the Flagships being used in roles other then what they are intended for. They would make rather nice mission ships, however they are easily out DPSed by the Marauders and the standard tier 3 battleships. Their only advantage in missions is a more durable tank then both the Marauders and the standard Battleships. They would make rather poor solo PvP ships in the current version of EVE. They are rather slow and are far more expensive then the standard battleships which would do the job the same if not better. Honestly, the ships really do not have a chance to shine unless they are in a gang and assigned as the fleet bonus ship. If they are not then they become rather mundane in their ability to throw damage. For the price I would rather take an Abaddon out solo and lose it rather then a Requiem or Oblivion out and lose it. If I had a fleet around me then the choice changes a lot. A for non standard fit for the ships (Ships like the NosDom or the like style of fitting) I'm not sure I can predict what people will do with these ships to that level. I would fly a Requiem into a mission, but thats because I am not a fan of the Apocolypse/Paladin's look. I think the Abaddon is a much better looking hull and if I'm going to be staring at a ship for 3-5 hours at a time, mine as well be something I like looking at. The Paladin is far more effective at missioning then the Abaddon, that I have no doubt about. But again is more estetics then anything els. And before you ask i can and have flown both ships into L4s, the Paladin is better at the job.
Grarr Dexx Amarr Avenging United	Posted - 2008.08.17 12:07:00 - [449] Any ex-raven pilot is going to transcend into the Tsunami, as it takes the already existant missile skills, most of the caldari spaceship command skills and their shield skills. I'm just afraid the Oblivion will become an underpowered ship.
Dristra Amarr Shadows of the Dead Daisho Syndicate	Posted - 2008.08.17 14:27:00 - [450] To adress the many nay-sayers that claim flag ships will simply take over for other ship classes: Having a ship do a better job at something is just a logical step up in the tier based world of eve, look at the ship tiers, most of the time higher tier is simply better. Tech 2 ships are almost always better than their tech 1 counterpart in every aspect. And never forget cost vs effectivness. Support the introduction of well thought out Amarr solutions! I believe rats should avoid you if you have high standing with them.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.18 00:06:00 - [451] The important thing is to make sure that the Tech 2 ships are better then their base ships, but due to cost or other factors, they are not overshadowing them. Thats the hard part about the designs.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.22 17:41:00 - [452] bump
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2008.09.03 18:34:00 - [453] Have you possibly thought about dearming these ships and cranking them more twoards the fleet support role? New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister
Dapanman1 Amarr Beets and Gravy Syndicate The InterBus Initiative	Posted - 2008.09.03 19:31:00 - [454] Started reading the proposals, recording points I would address in my response, after Amarr and Caldari I closed notepad. Too much wrong in my opinion. Do not want. Sig removed for inappropriate content.~~~Applebabe
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.03 20:36:00 - [455] Flagships are not intended for the fleet support role in the same way a Logistics ship dose it. They are more geared to be used for giving bonuses to the entire fleet. They operate much like Command Ships, Carriers, Mother Ships, and most like a Titan. Motherships and Carriers can do the logistics job because they are designed to have a small punch relative to their size. Command Ships and Titans are more geared, the command ship more so then the titan, toward giving the bonuses and being able to dish out punishment. Thrying to make a ship that can do all 3 fleet operations, namely give bonuses provide logistics and fire at targets, makes the ship either poor in its bonuses or makes it have far too many bonuses to make up for that. Doing a Logistics style ship should be another class of ship all together.
Yokko Kanno	Posted - 2008.09.05 16:08:00 - [456] Balor, The Flagships are a marvelous fit in bridging the gap between battleships and capitals. The breakdown for the "Frontline Command Ship" and "Theatre Command Ship" roles are a natural for EVE. The tactical advantages would be awesome and a great conclusion/reward to the skills tree. Imagine the pride in flying one these outstanding creations into battle with your corp/alliance shipmates, you and they knowing their survivability has made a quantum jump. I wish to thank Balor for his creative ideas and his courageous efforts (just read all 16 pages...can I have a drink please) in the face of criticism be it constructive, or less than. <applaud here> I'd like to go on and thank everyone who has thoughtfully added their time and effort in helping Balors Flagships mature and hopefully get into play (Pay attention here CCP). I can't wait to to park a Requiem in my hangar.
Thomas Prinivil	Posted - 2008.09.06 06:06:00 - [457] Balor as stated before skill balancing will be key. They should be just under capital skill points requirements (skill levels) with a major leanings to leadership. The stacking penalty vs bonus I think are fine. Only testing will reveal what the best mix should be. A Balancing option could be a stat bump as fleet flagship/wing commander. It would make the ship most effective in its intended role. Not sure how that might be implemented. The weapons mixes are fine I like the lower potential dps to help guide them more into a command role. With the mid and low slot additions you may find some very tough tanks but again offset by lower dps. I was going to suggest maybe adding a point of warp stability as in blockade runners. It would force the use of dedicated tacklers. It could be a bit much and not sure how to offset that advantage skill point wise or offsetting drawback.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.06 19:37:00 - [458] Putting a point of warp stabilization on the ship might be a bit too much. Not that I'm saying that I would not love a ship that could fly free even if a Crow or some other interceptor managed to tag me. There really is no good justification for putting a point on the ship that you can not apply to other ships and ship classes. As far as skills, I'm trying to come up with a list that is good for getting a good majority of the skills needed for flying either a dreadnought or carrier. But also keeping the list short enough to prevent people from simply skipping the ships and going straight for the dreadnought or carrier.
NanDe YaNen The Funkalistic	Posted - 2008.09.06 20:42:00 - [459] Alternative to tanking the flagship I don't see CCP ever introducing a massively tanked BS. If you look at typical active tanks, they can never perform much better than the damage output of ships at their tier. Sure an officer rigged Nighthawk with a Vulture in gang can blah blah blah, but that's far from the norm. What you're looking at is ending up with a ship that tanks massively for its tier and can tank three BS's... Damage reduction through other means is a far better rout to go for this ship. Any viable flagship needs to dodge most BS fire and up while having enough EHP to not insta-pop. You've got the second part, but need the first to have a meaningful ship. Otherwise it's going to be nothing more than a fireworks display on a busy overview as it gets trashed by 100 BS's. Straight tanking alone won't scale well with fleet battles. My 2￥ --------------------------------------- Originally by: Red Raider A happy gamer isnt on the forums, they are playing the game unless they have an idea that they honestly think is helping out.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.07 00:12:00 - [460] Making battleships that speed tank, which as far as I can tell is what you are proposing, will only lead to more problems than its worth. Battleships are not meant to be fast an speedy ships. If they were then there would be a lot more to worry about then a nanod vagabond or some such. The devs killed the nanophoon for a reason, no one could catch it and it was practicly imune to all incomming fire. The ships do have serious tanks on them but are no slouches in the damage department either. Lets face it, if a group of pilots really wants to kill you, there is little you can do to stop your ship from turning into scrap. Making the flagship go faster will reduce the incomming damage, that much is certain. But the opposite is true, so all outgoing damage will be reduced as well. There is one huge exception to this and thats missile throwing boats. They will be able to engage no matter the speed they are moving. And what that ends up doing is making some very powerful ships and the rest are crap because they are not capable of doing full damage at speed. Battleships and their base ships are fine at their movement speed. Speed is not going to solve tanking, it is only going to generate more problems then its worth. If one of these ships is caught out without a supporting fleet, I'm more then willing to say it deserves to die.
NanDe YaNen The Funkalistic	Posted - 2008.09.07 01:47:00 - [461] Originally by: Balor Haliquin The ships do have serious tanks on them but are no slouches in the damage department either. Have to ask you if you're really proposing anything except a heavy assault BS You're overlooking a huge difference between AB speed tanking and MWD speed tanking. MWD is not by nature a speed tanking module against turrets. Period. You get some bonus, but that's because of acceleration control skill, not the base speed bonus of the module. Damage curves with MWD on or off are almost identical. Everything else comes from either having a small sig radius (smaller hull) or extra speed mods (nano's, overdrives, snakes, claymore etc) AB is a speed tanking module. You go much slower than with a MWD, but gain much more damage mitigation. Sacrifice absolute speed for relative speed as far as turrets are concerned. An AB based speed tanking BS will not be achieving even MWD BS speed, but will be achieving it's speed without signature increase, and will thereby have a huge capability to mitigate damage from its own tier of weaponry. Calling a ship with stellar AB performance a potential nano-menace is far exaggerated considering that it will get outrun by a MWD BS. It can surely be caught by any nano-HAC. It has not the tactical freedom afforded by a MWD. How much DPS of a tank is your latest revision shooting for btw? --------------------------------------- Originally by: Red Raider A happy gamer isnt on the forums, they are playing the game unless they have an idea that they honestly think is helping out.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.07 15:56:00 - [462] I'm just curios to see what version of the Flagships, that I have proposed, you have seen. And if their is any doubt about these ships being for fleet command rather than super hacks I would lik4e to point out that all the ships have at least 2 fleet bonuses. These are either directly for fleet use or through the use of Warfare Links. And when I said that they were 'no slouch in the DPS department' I was making sure that you understood that these thing were not just a brick wall with no guns. First of all you never mentioned strictly afterburners as the tank. Even then this is a discussion about the designs here, I am wore then willing to place my opinions on your Flagship designs, but please do not take offence when I would like to keep my ship designs on my thread and yours on yours. At least for now. My expected tank for these ships should be in the neighborhood of 1,000 to 2,000. This is of course depending heavily on mods fit and the skill levels of the pilots. But that is for an active tank. Effective HP for the ships should be in the range of 170,000 to 200,000. That is a lot of HP for a battleship size ship to be running around with. You assert that MWD are not tanking modules. I would like to point out that if this were true then their would be no nanoing. The huge problem with MWDs today is that though they were never intended to be a tanking module. Pilots are now using them to remain nearly immune to all incoming fire. Afterburners on the other hand can not get you up to the speed nessessary to dodge fire. To clarify I am talking about current settings for MWDs and ABs. I'm not going to go speculate on what they might do in a patch that has no release date or even finalized changes.
NanDe YaNen The Funkalistic	Posted - 2008.09.07 18:26:00 - [463] Can't say these are separate conversations. We're both talking about designs that give fleet bonuses and have every reason to be primaried. Speed/sig tanking them is the way to go. They don't need to be able to dodge every HAC, Command Ship, and Sniper at optimal. No ship in Eve performs stellar at a sniper's optimal. No ship of a larger hull class can dodge fire from lower tier weaponry all that well. After the nano-nerf, there will be almost no exceptions. Originally by: Balor Haliquin You assert that MWD are not tanking modules. I would like to point out that if this were true then their would be no nanoing. The huge problem with MWDs today is that though they were never intended to be a tanking module. Pilots are now using them to remain nearly immune to all incoming fire. Afterburners on the other hand can not get you up to the speed nessessary to dodge fire. To clarify I am talking about current settings for MWDs and ABs. I'm not going to go speculate on what they might do in a patch that has no release date or even finalized changes. Look at damage curves. They'll make you a believer. An AB Stiletto could theoretically tank half of Eve, but then it's not going 10km/s, which is what it needs to be catching other ships for the rest of the gang. Speed ships use MWD's so they can fulfill tactical roles like tackling and getting away, not so they can mitigate damage. The fast base speed of HAC's and independent speed bonuses from all their other speed mods is what made them have fast speed relative to their sig radius. Takes 5s to become a believer. Rig up a Vagabond in EFT and set accel control to untrained. Set up a DPS graph against a BS, HAC, etc. Turn the MWD on. Vagabond will be taking little damage at most ranges at 100% transverse. Turn MWD off. Exact same damage curve. Now compare that damage curve to a vagabond with accel control V. The gains will be minimal. Now set up the same vagabond with a 10MN AB. It will tank Jove. AB's are fa superior tanking modules than MWD's, they just don't go fast enough to get away or to catch people, and in PVP, most people prefer the tactical advantage of MWD's for their role over the better damage mitigation of AB's. Back to the whole issue of sig radius, look at sig radii of Logistics. Tiny. About the size of a ceptor with MWD on. This was done to keep Logistics from getting flattened all the time. Looking at damage curves against logistics, you can quickly see how effective this sig reduction becomes. Untrained sig radius of a MWD using Cruiser: ~1000m2 Untrained sig radius of an AB using BS: ~400m2 See what's going on? A BS doesn't actually need the same transverse as a cruiser using a MWD. Compare even a regular unbonused BS using an AB to a MWD using BS. The AB user will out-perform at all ranges. Anyway, I believe you'll have a lot of success with an AB bonus. Yes, it's still impossible to tank cruiser guns in a BS, but twenty support ships and interceptors aren't the ones instapopping you before logistics can come into play. It's the BS's with 6k alphas on long range guns. Mitigate that (excepting optimal, which they don't have the option to warp in at all the time) and you'll have a BS tank in a Cruiser world. --------------------------------------- Originally by: Red Raider A happy gamer isnt on the forums, they are playing the game unless they have an idea that they honestly think is helping out.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.08 17:49:00 - [464] Okay, here is the issue that you are not seeming to understand. MWDs do increase the signature radius of the ship by a fair amount, and afterburners do not. On paper or on EFT this makes the AB look potential like a more viable PvP speed booster then the MWD. But the reality is that the MWD can do something that an AB never could. MWDs get a ship moving so fast that, at a rather long range, nothing can possibly hit the ship using them. Despite the fact that the ship has the signature radius of a small moon. If that moon is orbiting you at 4,000 m/s there is no hope of your guns tracking to it and little chance of you missiles catching the ship either with their speed or the explosion velocity. And Nano ships can use weapon systems that do not care about transversal velocity, like missiles and drones. An ABed ship is moving faster then normal but it is still getting hit a lot. Thats why most AB fit ships will have an active tank on them. They can not run like a Nanoed ship and use their speed to basicly make them invulnerable. You propose on you designs that an AB with a 100% speed bonus could tank far better then just a straight tank buff. This is completely wrong. Remeber that in order to keep this speed tank up you would have to orbit the target as fast as possible. But in order to do that you have to be very far out from the target and thus effectively nullifying your speed tank. Why so far out? Because of the ships mass it can not turn very well thus it has to slow down its speed the closer it gets to the target. At the range where its transversal is optimal for tanking so are many guns and missiles for tracking. The guns may not be at optimal range but they sure can start doing a lot of damage. So what would you need to do to make the speed tanked battleship work? Well you would have to reduce the mass for one so it can turn and move in less time. That way you can close the orbital distance and make the speed tank slightly effective. Then you would need to increase the base movement of the ship to about 150m/s so the AB bonus is not a waste of time. And finally you would have to fit the ship out for nanoing. The you would have a battleship that, with an AB, could provide a good enough amount of damage mitigation to warrent the bonus to ABs. But at that point, why not Nano it and run it like a nanophoon? Here is the point. In order to make a ship class with the kind of damage mitigation that you would need to survive a fleet action, you would have to basicly turn it into a solo gank machine. A battlship that moves so fast that no ship can track it or catch it. And those that can, can't break its massive tank. You have to make a choice speed, tank, or gank? You can not have all 3. EFT is exactly that, an EVE Fitting Tool. It dose a really good job of telling you whats going to fit on the ship, and thats about it. As far as it telling you align times and speed. I have noticed so many inconsitancies between the game and EFT. Not to mention the fact that the DPS and Volly damage are based of best case situations. Those numbers are a good referance for comparing other ships to each other in EFT. But they have little to do with what actually happens in EVE as a whole. If you have not flown against or in a Nano fleet, then belive me when i tell you this. It is the one thing in eve that desperately needs fixing for a reason. And making ships that basicly fly like nano ships defeats the purpose of the PROPOSED changes.
NanDe YaNen The Funkalistic	Posted - 2008.09.08 18:40:00 - [465] Damage Curves: AB vs MWD Case in point. Top curve is vs MWD. Middle curve is AB. No speed mods on either ship. Max skills. Last curve is an AB Domi with a few speed mods. Apoc is setup for fairly general fleet sniping. Using T2 long range ammo. Radio produces much tighter curves with its lack of a tracking penalty, but usually less DPS at sniping range. A BS with 100% AB bonus can run transverse to a Sniper blob at 20km and tank them probably indefinitely unless they're setup for tracking. Basically it's up to support to pop the ship unless they can pin it and then warp in a sniper blob at 100km+ Would require good coordination to take down. AB is a better speed tanking mod. --------------------------------------- Originally by: Red Raider A happy gamer isnt on the forums, they are playing the game unless they have an idea that they honestly think is helping out.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.08 19:29:00 - [466] Once again you have proven that sniper battleships are good only for snipping. Your argument about the use of ABs and MWDs is not part of this design nor is it even part of this forum board. There are some massive problems with your argument, one of which is testing AB and MWD transversals on a single ship and then relating them to blob warfare. As you have pointed out its very hard for a sniper ship to warp in at its optimal. but it is very easy for nano ships to warp in at their best orbiting range and grind someone to dust. Lets face it, one on one PvP battles are becoming more and more rare as the days go on. So to try and point out how a single ABed battleship could avoid a single sniper ships makes your argument look really good on paper. But remember eve has a random number generator making sure that there is a chance of hitting something outside your range or faster then your transversal. If this is a bonus that you would like on your ships designs then go ahead and do so. But as far as my experience and understanding of the game goes, I have not intention of putting a bonus like that on my ships at this point. I am more then willing to talk with you about it on your designs but please keep the discussion here to the ships featured here.
NanDe YaNen The Funkalistic	Posted - 2008.09.08 21:52:00 - [467] Originally by: Balor Haliquin Once again you have proven that sniper battleships are good only for sniping. Your argument about the use of ABs and MWDs is not part of this design nor is it even part of this forum board. There are some massive problems with your argument, one of which is testing AB and MWD transversals on a single ship and then relating them to blob warfare. As you have pointed out its very hard for a sniper ship to warp in at its optimal. but it is very easy for nano ships to warp in at their best orbiting range and grind someone to dust. Lets face it, one on one PvP battles are becoming more and more rare as the days go on. So to try and point out how a single ABed battleship could avoid a single sniper ships makes your argument look really good on paper. But remember eve has a random number generator making sure that there is a chance of hitting something outside your range or faster then your transversal. azn face If one setup does zero damage on a ship, 100 ships at the same warp in will also be doing zero damage. Look at most gang warps. All ships end up mostly clumped together. Also, the point is only to dodge BS fire, thus placing the BS tank in a cruiser world, where the alphas and DPS aren't as large. No instapopping. Time to heal wounds with carriers etc. That's a perfectly viable strategy to tie up the enemy. Your argument about the nano's shredding it (if there are enough of them and not enough logistics/carriers on the tank) is quite correct, but you're proving another point: A nice little speed edge on your BS would take the snipers out of the picture when it comes time to dealing with it, placing the load on support, who aren't as well equipped to do the job. What it means for my gang? My support is free to chew on their support while they try to catch my flagship. I'm talking specifically about blob warfare. Not 1vs1. Put 50 snipers in a 30km ball and watch them all struggle to hit the ship at a lot of ranges. Carrier/logistics support would completely nullify the efforts of those snipers. That's a huge waste of resources you can force on an opponent. In that case, the ship does its job even if it does eventually goes pop. My Fleet Marshall originally started out on this forum, and like I said, I think it's a good idea for any new T2 BS to have good survivability, especially if it has a good reason to be shot aka a useful T2 role. 100% relevant to this topic. It seems like you're applying nano-theory whereas I'm talking about basic speed tanking. Nano-theory attempts to take ~0 damage in most cases. This is about damage mitigation from the bulk of fleet damage dealing. The residual damage is much easier to tank. BC's and down will still be hitting for full damage, but that kind of is the point when you're talking about cruiser weapons against a BS. --------------------------------------- Originally by: Red Raider A happy gamer isnt on the forums, they are playing the game unless they have an idea that they honestly think is helping out.
Zero Invention	Posted - 2008.09.08 23:01:00 - [468] Dont tech 2 ships have a base resistance to there enemy... so amarr would have a decent explosive say 68 and Kinetic 60... but if u look at all other tech 2 ships they have racial damage assists... so ye.. :)
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.08 23:09:00 - [469] Okay, in blob warfare, at least as far as i have experienced it, the blobs thend to fall into one another to the point where no ships is going to have transversal to all ships in the fleet. At best you are going to hope for 10% of the fleet with good transversal. Someone on that blob is going to have optimal firing position on you. Even so, if a pile of people are firing at you in the Flagship and you don't go down in the first 3 vollies, then a good fleet commander will change out the targets. I find little point in trying to make a sub capital ships that can survive a blob encounter. Too many of the factors depend on items and events that are far outside the control of the pilot in the Flagship. And in many cases, there are more then just battleships trying to take you down. Not to mention that turrets are not the only thing that are coming at the ship at any given time. The Flagship will simply wither under the firepower. As for putting support ships on it. Why would the fleet commander simply to go for the support ships first? And a second issue is that there is a very real possibility of these ships flying without capital support on them. Such as high sec or null sec that have cyno field inhibitors. These are first strike ships and thus would need to have a good tank to make sure they can survive for more then 30 seconds. That I'm sure we can both agree on. But an AB is not they way to go, its not the right tool for the job. It just dose not get the BS moving fast enough even with the 100% to it that you propose. Honestly the best speed I could see them going, considering my designs are heavier, would be about 800m/s. Thats not enough to dodge much of anything. Maybe a sniper ship with no tracking mods or scripts at about 30kms. And even then you are not far enough away from the other sniper ship to dodge his fire. Its just not meant to be. I understand what you are saying but there is no practical way that a Battleship class ship can move fast enough to dodge battleship fire. Battleships are meant to tank other battleships, thats why the have the pile of tanking slots.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.08 23:11:00 - [470] Ironey among ironies; when I was doing the research for these ships I found that that is in fact not true. Its strange how its done but the best way to see is if you go an look at the difference between the base cruisers and something like the HACs you will see that two resitances are way higher then the others. Those are the race specific resistance.
Zero Invention	Posted - 2008.09.08 23:14:00 - [471] they are on AS to... and Command ships... soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo racial resists shhould apply
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.09 00:04:00 - [472] Edited by: Balor Haliquin on 09/09/2008 00:05:23 Ohh you are talking about their overall strength. The reason they are not as high as the Assault Ships and Heavy Assault Ships is because of a good deal of prenerfing by me. This is to prevent them from becoming solo machines because small fleets can not break their tanks. This is also intended to make the the designs a bit more eatable for the Devs and other CCP people. But that is completely up to them about weather or not they put these ships in. The resistances are there but they are much less then what you woul normaly see on T2 ships. They are more along the lines of the other T2 battleships.
NanDe YaNen The Funkalistic	Posted - 2008.09.09 02:28:00 - [473] Seems like you're talking more about dodging completely and I'm only shooting to mitigate incoming damage for the vast majority of cases. Don't believe it's mathematically possible to have an average transverse of 50% to all hostiles in any kind of distribution. Using a really theoretically bad case, where you're surrounded on all sides with a uniformly dispersed blob, you're on average at 50% transverse. For a lot of cases, where there are two major blobs, there exists a solution to be at 100% transverse to both blobs. A good pilot can easily spot the most major distributions and fly tangential to them to complicate sniping. In the majority of small gang fights, there's a primary damage dealer or group of damage dealers to be concerned with. Running tangential to them while performing duties doesn't require a large stretch of the imagination. Using a few neuts and drones on the most pressing support ships and avoiding getting tackled by random short range BS's is also not a huge issue. Any good pilot will avoid those situations sufficiently to get out of them. Of course, all said and done, nothing can stop the pilots of Flagships from strapping AB's on themselves. However small the unbonused speed increase may be, anything will help a ship that needs to stay alive to do its job In my case, I see them having some decent tools for staying out of trouble in a lot of cases and just enough for a crafty pilot to avoid certain doom when he see's it coming. Warp out. Live to WTZ again I'm panning around the idea of the whole active stealth thing as a high-slot for either desperate clinging to dear life or for when the ship needs to fly at a low transverse to do its job. Balance by limiting weapon activation. You might look at that as well. Imagine a blob trying to shoot a Scimitar, or better yet put it into EFT and check out the damage curves, and you'll quickly see what I mean. We're both in agreement that no straight tank in the game will save an insta-primary BS. I would seriously consider giving a fleet booster ship more tools to stay alive. --------------------------------------- Originally by: Red Raider A happy gamer isnt on the forums, they are playing the game unless they have an idea that they honestly think is helping out.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.09 23:59:00 - [474] If you are talking about the module that reduced a ships signature radius by something like 500% that was being shown around in trinity. That device alone would account for a large portion of the incoming DPS mitigation. Im not convinced by any means that a bonus to one module would provide a significant enough DPS mitigation to warrent it being put on the ships. And as you have said, what prevents any pilot from slapping a 100mn Afterburner onto any battkleship and buzzing around in it. Yes, according to EFT you can get some rather significant DPS reduction from one ship. But again the issue is not one ship but 5 or more opening up on you. Why waste a bonus on afterburners when you can use it for making the ship a more effective command ship or having have a batter base tank? As it is i don't like the ships having 6 bonuses (2 Racial Battleship, 2 Flagship, 2 Role). Giving the ships a 100% bonus to ABs would make them tank better in blobs potentialy but in everything els they will still suffer from being a battleship. Getting them with armor and shielding bonuses makes them a lot more versitile.
NanDe YaNen The Funkalistic	Posted - 2008.09.10 00:14:00 - [475] Originally by: Balor Haliquin If you are talking about the module that reduced a ships signature radius by something like 500% that was being shown around in trinity. That device alone would account for a large portion of the incoming DPS mitigation. Im not convinced by any means that a bonus to one module would provide a significant enough DPS mitigation to warrent it being put on the ships. And as you have said, what prevents any pilot from slapping a 100mn Afterburner onto any battkleship and buzzing around in it. Yes, according to EFT you can get some rather significant DPS reduction from one ship. But again the issue is not one ship but 5 or more opening up on you. Why waste a bonus on afterburners when you can use it for making the ship a more effective command ship or having have a batter base tank? As it is i don't like the ships having 6 bonuses (2 Racial Battleship, 2 Flagship, 2 Role). Giving the ships a 100% bonus to ABs would make them tank better in blobs potentialy but in everything els they will still suffer from being a battleship. Getting them with armor and shielding bonuses makes them a lot more versitile. I know I'm being unsupportive, but I'm just going to have to argue with you on that one. --------------------------------------- Originally by: Red Raider A happy gamer isnt on the forums, they are playing the game unless they have an idea that they honestly think is helping out.
Davik Rendar	Posted - 2008.09.10 00:25:00 - [476] NanDe: What happens if one of your ships jumps into a close range gatecamp?
Fullmetal Jackass	Posted - 2008.09.10 00:51:00 - [477] I've stayed away from this topic, but I just now noticed it was stickied so maybe I'll poke at it a bit. I seem to recall the devs saying they didn't want the T2 battleships to be bigger Heavy Assault Ships (no such thing as a HAC). Sounds to me like that's what you all want here. Granted you want a command ship to survive, but at the moment damage reduction is a moot point. You can park a bonus giving ship anywhere in system and then active it's modules. I'd think you'd want it to have more agility so you could bounce safe spots easier. Just a refresher on the non commital responce from CCP. And for the record, I'd say any admiral worth his salt would pick a titan as his "flag ship". Originally by: CCP Abathur Originally by: Balor Haliquin As far as CCP not yet responding to the thread, they will get to it in their own time. Quite right. Thanks for the work you've put into this thread and we'll certainly consider some of these ideas when it's time to implement the Tier 3 T2 battleships. That's not to say that this concept will be what they end up being, but nothing is being ruled out. As for the 'Flagship' moniker, it's been tossed around for a while and is not currently locked into a particular class of ship. Personally, I think battleships are a bit... small for such a name.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.10 01:45:00 - [478] These ships are far from super HACs, the latest versions tank better then the standard version of the battleship but don't do nearly the DPS. And even then their tanks do not make them invulnerable. Please no that the current versions of the ships are linked on the first entry of this thread. You have every right to disagree about the effects of a module on ships, NanDe YaNen.
NanDe YaNen The Funkalistic	Posted - 2008.09.10 05:19:00 - [479] Originally by: Davik Rendar NanDe: What happens if one of your ships jumps into a close range gatecamp? Design is thus far aimed at aiding short range BS's in dealing with tactical disadvantages to snipers. Against an RR close range camp, that's already a pretty favorable situation for the campers, and besides the "should have had a scout" argument, it's not particularly adept at doing the work of the gang it's designed to work with, so it shouldn't be found solo very often except for niche combo tag-team work. While a BS has tools for dealing with smaller support pretty handily (neuts etc) getting tackled by a BS is much more problematic. In the case of short range BS's like the blaster Mega, they have full PvP slots, good tracking, especially when webbing, and lots of DPS. How to survive jumping into them? Don't. Not without lots of tools for dealing with them, which basically boils down to trying to jam/tackle enough of them while kiting to warp disruptor range unless set up for the same situation. Any gang is in trouble in that situation without the right tools. While the ship has tools for staying out of trouble beyond a typical BS, nothing can save a pilot who jumps right into it. Thinking of bumping my thread on this forum and then making some final changes on the assembly hall thread depending on response. Mainly pandering the idea of a high-slot active stealth mod that turns off weapons. A sort of extra tool available for when the ship especially needs to cut its damage intake drastically. Sorry for the ongoing thread-jack. --------------------------------------- Originally by: Red Raider A happy gamer isnt on the forums, they are playing the game unless they have an idea that they honestly think is helping out.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.10 05:47:00 - [480] Honestly man no problem. You have answered the question a bit better then i could. And despite our debate you are cool about it. therefore I have no issues with you. All I can say about the bonus you propose is this. When and if the speed nerf comes out it may look totally different then what either you or I could imagine. So lets wait till they come up with a better idea of what the nerf is going to look like in the form of actual patch notes. By then it may change the face of battle significatly, and then lets hit the topic of a possible AB boost. There are just too many thing that could change how combat works in the patch to warrent a look in that direction. I say stick with what is rather basic tanking philosophy. And if you want any input on your forum threads I would be happy to comment and help keep ideas alive.
Rogerano Minmatar Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2008.09.10 07:57:00 - [481] Currently BC based command ships are high priority targets, for a variety of reasons. They cost about 5-6 times as much as their t1 counterpart. These two points are offset somewhat by the increased survivability of the ships, though this is debatable. Certainly the damnation and possibly the two caldari CSes are survivable. The others have decent tanks. If these flagships see the light of day, they too will be high priority targets. But without the extra protection. If their cost follows in the footsteps of their CS cousins and the recent marauders, then it would be hard to justify putting these ships on the front line. Given the above, their flagshipy bonuses won't justify the effort and cost. The ships just aren't that good. If you don't paint these as t2 battleships and the cost is therefore near to or slightly higher than their plain counterparts, it might be ok. I don't mind paying for and enjoy using my damnation, abso, claymore and sliep because I know they're highly capable ships. --- Not happy with something in EVE? An emo whine will doubtless help your cause.
Hugh Ruka Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2008.09.10 08:35:00 - [482] if you want a flag ships, than add a gang/fleet aiding exclusive ability, like target handoff or similar .. f.e. you stack the flag ship with sensor boosters and lock faster than other ships and when boradcasting a primary, the target will appear for all ships as already locked and they can fire instantly. this makes the ship actualy appear on the battlefield and on the front line while giving a unique fleet oriented role and bonus. --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed !
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.15 19:08:00 - [483] These ships do have a more beefy tank on them. There is a fine line between a better tank and an invulnerable tank. Thats the fine line I am trying to find and walk. Yes the ships will be rather expensive to get. But thats the price you pay to have a ship that can provide bonuses in high sec that are usually reserved for low sec and null sec. One has to remember that capital ships are great but lack the ability to fly into high sec. The fact that these ships do not suffer the restriction is huge. As far as I know, having the fleet bonus ship lock something faster then anything els in the fleet dose not mean that all the other ships in the fleet instant lock the target ship. But to have a target hand-off in the game is something that I think the game can not handle. But that is really something for the Devs to talk about.
Sardukarr	Posted - 2008.09.15 21:27:00 - [484] will we get all new models or just a recoloring? "no more damn DESERTS!"
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.15 23:02:00 - [485] Yah know I loved some of the older T2 ships because they have unique models but they are still flavors of their base ships. Its really to bad that all CCP has managed to do for the newer T2s is recolor them and not give them some interesting looks. I would love to see the Abaddon with a communication tower on one of its castles (the parts that stick above the armor on the tops and bottoms) or some extra engines. Even on the Hyperion you could do some really neat stuff with the models and not make them too complex. I'm all for 'upgraded' models as well as new paint jobs.
NanDe YaNen The Funkalistic	Posted - 2008.09.16 00:16:00 - [486] That broadcast idea is probably the strongest idea for a T2 role I've seen yet as far as making FC's function better. --------------------------------------- Originally by: Red Raider A happy gamer isnt on the forums, they are playing the game unless they have an idea that they honestly think is helping out.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.16 01:40:00 - [487] My only fear is that it will lead to making the Gallente Flagship a super pwn mobile. Because as they are set now, the Athena gets a bonus to sensor boosters, so all that you would need to do is load up on information warfare links and some sensor boosters and you have a ship the locks pods instantly and hands it over to the dread thats in siege mode for dispatching. It is a neat idea foir a mechanic but one that needs to have huge restrictions and tweaking.
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2008.09.16 06:04:00 - [488] Currently the ships 'combat' value is high enough to get it on the field The ships 'threat' value' is respectful enough for warrent it However the ships 'finacial' is imo out of porportion. This however cant be avoided, despite this players may not take such a heavy value ship that its own price rivals probably the more effective carrier in terms of endearing effects where as the flagship would be instant vaporware. There needs to be some sort of solution that allows the flagship to withstand escalation so that it wont be uber poweful in smaller sutations while in larger situations its benifits are on par with the threat being handeled. Pre Order your Sisters of Eve ship today!!!
Rogerano Minmatar Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2008.09.16 06:14:00 - [489] Originally by: Balor Haliquin One has to remember that capital ships are great but lack the ability to fly into high sec. The fact that these ships do not suffer the restriction is huge. Errr. WTF? Nobody I know uses gang links on their capital ships. The high slots are reserved for neuts, smarties, and reppers. Fleet bonuses come from mind-linked clones in specially fitted fleet command ship(s). Non-titan caps do not offer bonuses different to command ships. Are you referring to the single gang-member bonus conveyed by the titan as the bonus not available to high-sec gangs? That single bonus they convey isn't available "normally" because most of your low-sec and 0.0-sec players aren't in gangs with titan+pilot fleet commanders (yet :P). Also, titans are kinda pricey and so the bonus they give - which is like fitting an officer mod or something - is justified by the effort required to sit in and field the ship. --- Not happy with something in EVE? An emo whine will doubtless help your cause.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.16 16:07:00 - [490] When i was talking about gang warfare links on capital, pilots have the choice on putting them on or not. Just because many don't is no reason to discount the fact that in low and null sec, more ships classes are open that can fit warfare links. And your point is very correct, many pilots don't. Also the fact that though the population of titans has grown to somewhere in the neighborhood of 50 to 100 total. Thats a very very small chance that you will be getting into a gang that has one. The Flagship offers the titan fleet bonus in a small, high sec capable, and much cheaper hull. Granted the bonus is not at the same level as the Titan's bonus (5% on the Flagship verses 7.5% on the Titan). Assuming that you will spend 750 million on the Flagship and 250 million on the fitting (I'm being very liberal with the fitting cost) you have a billion Isk ship. Compared to a Titan witch alone will cost a single pilot in the neighborhood of 75 billion Isk to get. Flagships make the survivable fleet command ship avalible to smaller corperations and alliances. And the upkeep coast is far less then Titan. The only thing the titan has that the Flagship dose not is the ability to jump, use a Jump Bridge, use Cloning Vats, and use a Doomsday Device. Witch honestly make the Titan still useful. The Flagship can fly into high sec, can dock, and can use jump gates. I think its a nice trade off between the two. Cost will be high but i think its cheep compared to what you would have to do to get the same abilities on another ship.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.23 03:19:00 - [491] Im considering changing some of the stats for the Gallente and Caldari. People have pointed out to me that they do not seem to fallow the general theme of Gallente and Caldari, especialy their special design firms. Any suggestions on how are welcome. The basic issue is that they seem to not fallow the themes of the majority of the designs fathered by the firms. I'm not sure I can change them much to make them more oriented toward these issues without making them far more powerful. For example the Athena is on turret down and people have said that that is not what Duvolle dose to their ships. But adding the turret may make the ship far more effective as a combat solo machine then I want it to ever be. There are a few other minor issues. But overall it seems that i nee to redo some of the designs.
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2008.09.23 03:44:00 - [492] Well I can point out the gallente ones Duvolle Labs is all about assault assault assault! Go in and rip them a new one assault. Cedrodon corporation is electronics supeirority though enhanced computer abilities (aka drone controls, ewar, covert ops) Rhoden Shipyards is a caldari wanna be but it really needs a mk2 done to it a series of ships that focuses on ROF missiles no range bonus or something. Pre Order your Sisters of Eve ship today!!!
NanDe YaNen The Funkalistic	Posted - 2008.09.23 03:50:00 - [493] Originally by: Balor Haliquin My only fear is that it will lead to making the Gallente Flagship a super pwn mobile. Because as they are set now, the Athena gets a bonus to sensor boosters, so all that you would need to do is load up on information warfare links and some sensor boosters and you have a ship the locks pods instantly and hands it over to the dread thats in siege mode for dispatching. It is a neat idea foir a mechanic but one that needs to have huge restrictions and tweaking. So just make it initiate the lock process for all gang mates. FC calls target. Gang mates all see the timer start. "Oh THAT target!" Never fall to hard-to-read handles again. --------------------------------------- Originally by: Red Raider A happy gamer isnt on the forums, they are playing the game unless they have an idea that they honestly think is helping out.
Kransthow Sage Industries	Posted - 2008.09.23 06:44:00 - [494] How will the role of these ships differ from the role of standard command ships and if they are the same then what justification is there for their existence.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.23 17:52:00 - [495] Im not sure that the system can force the other players to target another ship. I seem to remember that this was suggested before but CCP said that they corer system could not do that. What im looking for is a change in the style of the Gallente and Caldari ships, not a whole sale revamp at the moment. The difference between these ships and command ships is not much. The command ships are probably significantly better as solo machines then the Flagships. The flagship has a much more unique and command and control orientation to it. All the flagships have a fleet bonus right off the bat. The Command ships have the potential to be better at command and control then the Flagships. All in all i think a good way of describing the difference between the Command Ships and the Flagships is the difference between the Assault Ships and the Heavy Assault ships. But not nearly as extreme. There are many situations where I would rather fly a Command Ship, and there are many situation where I would rather be in a Flagship. Their basic intent is to give small high sec corperations the benefits of ships like a titan as far as fleet bonuses are concerned. With the major changes of not being able to use a DD and other super capital only systems.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.25 20:21:00 - [496] Edited by: Balor Haliquin on 25/09/2008 20:25:42 AMARR Name: Requiem Hull: Abaddon Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Carthum Conglomerate Carthum ships are the very embodiment of the Amarrian warfare philosophy. Possessing sturdy armor and advanced weapons systems, they provide a nice mix of offense and defense. On the other hand, their electronics and shield systems tend to be rather limited. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Energy Turret damage per level, 5% bonus armor Resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Capacitor Recharge Rate per level, 5% bonus to Large Energy Turret capacitor cost per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 20% bonus to Tracking Link and Tracking Computer effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 4 mid / 8 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 20700 CPU: 530 Hard points: 8 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 6850 Shield Resistances: 0/65/52.5/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 9000 Armor Resistances: 50/35/37.5/35 Hull HP: 8000 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 75m^3s Drone Bandwidth: 75 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6375 Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 80km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Radar 22 Signature Radius: 480m Scanner Resolution: 85 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Fusion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command I --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Amarr Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Amarr Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery IV --> Weapon Upgrade IV Name: Oblivion Hull: Abaddon Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Khanid Innovations In addition to robust electronics systems, the Khanid Kingdom's ships possess advanced armor alloys capable of withstanding a great deal of punishment. Generally eschewing the use of turrets, they tend to gear their vessels more towards close-range missile combat. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Torpedo velocity per level, 5% bonus to armor Resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Capacitor Recharge Rate per level, 3% bonus to effectiveness of Armored Warfare Links module per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 5 mid / 7 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 19500 CPU: 530 Hard points: 2 Turret/6 Launcher Shield HP: 7350 Shield Resistances: 0/65/52.5/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8400 Armor Resistances: 50/35/37.5/35 Hull HP: 8000 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3s Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6375 Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 80km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Radar 22 Signature Radius: 480m Scanner Resolution: 85 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Fusion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command I --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Amarr Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Amarr Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics IV -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Armored Warfare Link III
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.25 20:22:00 - [497] CALDARI Name: Bastion Hull: Rohk Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Ishukone Most of the recent designs off their assembly line have provided for a combination that the Ishukone name is becoming known for great long-range capabilities and shield systems unmatched anywhere else. Caldari Battleship Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range per level, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret damage per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 20% bonus to ECCM and Remote ECCM effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 14900 CPU: 750 Hard points: 6 Turret/4 Launcher Shield HP: 9250 Shield Resistances: 0/60/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6750 Armor Resistances: 60/10/25/45 Hull HP: 7250 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command I --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Caldari Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Caldari Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery V --> Weapon Upgrade V Name: Tsunami Hull: Rokh Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Kaalakiota As befits one of the largest weapons manufacturers in the known world, Kaalakiota's ships are very combat focused. Favoring the traditional Caldari combat strategy, they are designed around a substantial number of weapons systems, especially missile launchers. However, they have rather weak armor and structure, relying more on shields for protection. Cladari Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Missile Launcher rate of fire per level, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Siege Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 7 mid / 5 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 13500 CPU: 750 Hard points: 1 Turret/6 Launcher Shield HP: 9250 Shield Resistances: 0/60/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6500 Armor Resistances: 60/10/25/45 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command III --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Caldari Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Caldari Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics IV -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics III --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Siege Warfare Link III
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.25 20:31:00 - [498] GALLENTE Name: Athena Hull: Hyperion Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Duvolle Labs Duvolle Labs manufactures sturdy ships with a good mix of offensive and defensive capabilities. Since the company is one of New Eden's foremost manufacturers of particle blasters, its ships tend to favor turrets and thus have somewhat higher power output than normal. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Hybrid Turrets damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Armor Hit Points per level, 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret falloff per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 12.5% bonus to Sensor Booster and Remote Sensor Booster effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 5 mid / 7 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 15650 CPU: 570 Hard points: 8 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 7000 Shield Resistances: 0/50/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8350 Armor Resistances: 50/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8900 Velocity: 130m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command I --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Gallente Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Gallente Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery V --> Weapon Upgrade IV Name: Artimus Hull: Hyperion Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: CreoDron As the largest drone developer and manufacturer in space, CreoDron has a vested interest in drone carriers. While sacrificing relatively little in the way of defensive capability, the Artimus can chew its way through surprisingly strong opponents - provided, of course, that the pilot uses top-of-the-line CreoDron drones. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 10% bonus to drone Hit Points and Damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Armor Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Information Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 14150 CPU: 570 Hard points: 6 Turret/2 Launcher Shield HP: 7000 Shield Resistances: 0/50/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8500 Armor Resistances: 50/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8750 Velocity: 130m/s Drone Bay: 175m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 125 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command I --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Gallente Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Gallente Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics IV -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Information Warfare Link III
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.25 20:33:00 - [499] MINMATAR Name: Firestorm Hull: Maelstrom Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Boundless Creations Boundless Creation's ships are based on the Brutor tribe's philosophy of warfare: simply fit as much firepower onto your ship as possible. Defense systems and electronics arrays therefore tend to take a back seat to sheer annihilative potential. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Projectile Turret damage per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Signature Radius reduction per level, 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret falloff per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 20% bonus to Target Painter effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 18700 CPU: 610 Hard points: 8 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 7650 Shield Resistances: 15/50/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8100 Armor Resistances: 75/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 115m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command I --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Minmatar Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Minmatar Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Electronics V -> Gunnery V --> Weapon Upgrade IV Name: Halberd Hull: Maelstrom Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Core Complexion Core Complexion's ships are unusual in that they favor electronics and defense over the "lots of guns" approach traditionally favored by the Minmatar. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Signature Radius reduction per level, 3% bonus to Skirmish Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 High / 7 Mid / 5 Low / 2 rig Power Grid: 18100 CPU: 610 Hard points: 5 Turret/3 Launcher Shield HP: 8300 Shield Resistances: 15/50/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 7350 Armor Resistances: 75/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7600 Velocity: 115m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command I --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Minmatar Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Minmatar Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics IV -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Skirmish Warfare Link III
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.25 20:39:00 - [500] I changed the Caldari and Gallente Frontline Command ships to reflect more on their ship design firms. They mostly got chnages to their turret and launcher selections. In addition the Tsunami got a bonus change from 5% to missile explosion velocity to 5% to missile rate of fire. The Minmatar Halbred got a fitting change and got an additional launcher added to it. Debating on weather to change the Bastion's bonuses for its rail guns to all optimal range bonuses but I really don't like that idea. Let me know what you think about the new changes.
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2008.09.26 00:04:00 - [501] Hmm the front line ships having an offenseive bonus is nice to the fleets now, still disagree with a few of them though such as the gallente falloff vs caldari damage bonus imo should be swapped as gallent always has been about putting damage on spot while caldari is reaching out and touching people, having a damage bonus at all how ever may overvalue it (considering etf warriors only think about two things, dps and effective hp) so I would rather see a tracking bonus instead for the gallente should you swap the range damage and exchange damage for tracking. All the bonuses would then contribute to dps overall but not directly. the 'defensive' bonus of all of the front line ships imo should differ form the fleet command ones. For example cap amount vs cap recharge, shield amount vs shield recharge, armor amount vs repper repair rate, signature size vs agility Pre Order your Sisters of Eve ship today!!!
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.26 02:56:00 - [502] Hmmm, that is true, I guess I really do need to change out the Cladari bonuses for their rail ship. That will be for the next version though. I'm liking the idea for the variation on bonuses. I'm not sure how you have outlined them will work but I will definately think about them.
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2008.09.26 07:39:00 - [503] well the examples i listed are based off skill bonuses, it seems armor doesnt oftenly skill on repair amount but speed for example. Pre Order your Sisters of Eve ship today!!!
Will Whitewiskers	Posted - 2008.09.26 10:51:00 - [504] Ill probably be erased but here goes. New hull designs please, the fittings schematic is safe. A new hull design would spark alot of interest in just saying i have one ,add specialization and you have a stampede to train up for it! Just a thought but in military circles aircraft id is essential so is vehicle id. In that respect you see a shape in the distance distinctive, and you say we have a flag ship lets kill it! or you have bitten off more than you can chew and doubt says get the hell out of here ! Argo
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.26 16:57:00 - [505] 1) why would I erase your post for having an idea. 2) Do you mean an altered T1 hull, as what is talked about here, which is kinda standard for eve right now. Or a completely new hull?
Destructor1792 Minmatar Malicious Intentions Resurgency	Posted - 2008.09.26 16:58:00 - [506] A nice idea On the skill side (as these are basically the big brother of Command ships) i'd opt for: Primary: Flagship I BS V Cruiser V Frigate V Logistics V Command Ships V Wing command V -> Leadership V Warfare Link Specialist V Secondary: Advanced Spaceship Command V (depending on race) 2 x Advanced Leadership skills to V Electronics V Mechanic V Engineering V Gunnery V Tertiary: Advanced weapons Upgrade V Targeting 5 Electronic Upgrades V Long Range Targeting V Multi-tasking V or something like that As for the high slots, 8 is good but should be a 4/0 turret/missile mix. maybe 2/2/0 or 3/1/0 Remove any shield rep bonus from the ship & replace them with either HP increase or resistance increase ( fleet fights = lag & as you're the one controlling most of it, buffer over reps instead of trying to activate laggy modules!) Allow the fitting of 4-6 gang link modules (your controlling ur fleet so why have the ability to fit so many guns!?) If they're primarly armor then reduce shield HP to 1000.. increase armor HP's to 50,000 (these puppies need to able to survive) and vice versa for shield ships (although i already forsee alot of carnage on the forums with regard to those that rely on shields!). Allow the use of these in 0.0 only (imagine the choas they'll cause in low-sec and empire!!) Brain has gone blank now so i'll come back and edit this post at some point! lol ______________________________________ *Bringing The Fun Back* I Have No Fear, Fear is for the weak.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.26 19:47:00 - [507] Your idea has been proposed before when it comes to the number of turret slots. The one thing that I am trying to deal with is making the ships able to operate in more then just large blobs in null sec. Thats why these ships are setup so they can have turrets and or launchers equivelent to their base ships. They are capable of applying nearly the same firepower to the fight as their bas ships and have a fleet bonus that can aid at the same time. If they were skimped on turrets I'm rather sure that the vast majority of the pod pilots out there would skip the slight bonus in tank for a huge bonus in fleet DPS that a standard battleship would bring. The other problem I want to avoid is making any existing ship class completely obsolete. So thats why they can use warfare links but not as well as the Command Ships. The huge advantage that the Flagships have is that they have a built in fleet bonus. But as far as reducing the number of turrets/launcher to 4 or so, I don't think it would work out well. As for the skills, those are the basic ones that are needed to fly the ships. I just also included all the skills needed to get to those skills as well. I'm not sure giving the ships huge hit points in one particular area would bring about the desired result that you are looking for. Giving a shield ship 50k shields would give them a huge and nearly invulnerable tank to work with. Giving the armor tankers the huge armor hit points would give them, fitting the right mods, a pile of effective hit points that only capital ships should be dealing with. As for restricting these to 0.0 only, I would like to point out this. One of the huge selling points of this ship is that it is a heavy command and tank ships that can go anywhere and be used by just about any fleet. The titans and other command capital ships are only allowed in low and null sec and few of those pilots would ever put warfare links on their ships. The advantage these ships give you is that no matter what, your fleet will be getting some kind of bonus to it. And what about these ships would require them to be left out of high sec and low sec? I'm not sure killing off a god chunk of the selling points of the ship is a good plan.
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2008.09.27 00:25:00 - [508] I agree about the gun issue, if the player wants to be more of a fleet monkey hell have to sacrifice firepower for the force multiplier. I think the front line ships need to have a lowered defensive fleet bonus, where as the backlining ships would have a higher defensive one. Pre Order your Sisters of Eve ship today!!!
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.27 21:02:00 - [509] The problem with removing turrets is that it only dose one thing, Reduce the DPS that a ship is capable. It dose not force the pilot to do anything els but fit less turrets or launchers. By removing turrets I cant force any player to strap on the items I want him to use. The only thing I can do is encourage him to use the mods that I want him to use. In this light, one has to go using insentives for that purpose, namely the ship bonuses. But eve then there is no garantee that a person will slap the mods on to his ship and fly it. In that light I would rather have a ship that is good in the combat department rather then having a sevearly gimped ship that no one wants to fly. Of course save for the few die hards that will fly it no matter what. And if the ship is gimed and no one flies it then the price of admission is just not worth it. Thus the ship will fail. ((if this rant is a little to much forgive me I have been watching Zero Punctuation on the The Escapist. My internal monologue has been temporarily aprehended and is now a raving mad australian)) What I want to do with these ships is a ship that can fit in well to any fleet action dose not reduce that fleets DPS by a huge amount, increases that fleets survivability, and is not prohibitvely expensive in doing so. At the same time the ship has to avoid stepping to heavily on the toes of other ships already in the field. As far as removing turrets and launchers, all ti will do is drive people away from these ships and into other ships that just have more firepower. Even giving them a huge damage bonus will only make people scream that I'm trying to replace the Marauders. Something that I desperately want to avoid. So I will probably remove a few turrets, after looking at the ships as they are now, some just have way too many for my liking. But for the vast majority of them I don't see a need to drop below the 8 turrets/launchers they have now.
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2008.09.27 21:41:00 - [510] wonder if its possible to have a per squadon or per wing bonus possible. Pre Order your Sisters of Eve ship today!!!
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.27 23:23:00 - [511] I'm not sure that is possible, it really depends on the way the fleet is structured. And even them im not sure if their is one fleet bonus ship or one per position and the system takes the highest values and puts them together. But if its a catch all bonus from one person then we are stuck with a universal fleet bonus.
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2008.09.28 00:08:00 - [512] well if it is possible then I would love to see it happen however, as it would escalate with scale of the battle as I put it earlier. the larger the fleet the larger the bonus gets. Pre Order your Sisters of Eve ship today!!!
Destructor1792 Minmatar Malicious Intentions Resurgency	Posted - 2008.09.28 00:51:00 - [513] Edited by: Destructor1792 on 28/09/2008 00:53:02 The reason I say keep these to 0.0 is simple.. We already have commandships that are free to move around the Eve universe. The name of these new ships really speaks for itself.. "Flagship". You're looking at having FC trained up to fly one so makes sense that these are only gonna come out in big gangs. And lets not forget how much these puppies are gonna cost! They are T2 after all As for the amount of HP's to give, 50k was just a number off the top of my head.. to stop these things from being tank monsters just increase the cap recharge time so it makes it pointless fitting rep modules (for shield, just increase the recharge rate or remove it completely!). Add a bonus which reduces the cap requirement for running gang links. This still gives you the ability to run gang mods & also a nice buffer tank to work with whilst in the middle of a battle but stop them being able to tank 30 BS indefinantly! Prehaps also change the resistances so 2 are extremely high & the other 2 are extremely poor. (e.g. for a shield tanker, resists along the lines of: Shield 1/1/87/87 Armor 90/90/90/90 Hull 0/0/0/0 and armor tanker: Shield 0/0/0/0 Armor 87/87/1/1 Hull 90/90/90/90 this gives each version a chance (albeit slim) to GTFO when it all goes horribly wrong! lol) Also makes them very vunerable to nos/neuts (which is why you get cap usage reduction on the links) And i still say limit the amount of guns.. they will have the ability to take alot of punishment and dish out some sexy gang bonuses. Allowing them to dish out DPS will just cause too many issues on the "overpowered" front. Hope that makes sense ('specially with the increase/decrease part.. both sound right but wrong, so hopefully you'll know what i mean ) ______________________________________ *Bringing The Fun Back* I Have No Fear, Fear is for the weak.
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2008.09.28 06:45:00 - [514] obviously the guy doesnt know warfare happens in high sec as well. Pre Order your Sisters of Eve ship today!!!
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.28 15:58:00 - [515] No offence man but there simple is no game mechanic reason for restricting these ships to just null sec. At that rate you would be better off making them out of a capital platform. And I'm not sure that theses ships are that unique that it warrents a complete and wholesale restriction on travel for them. These are ships designed to apply their fleet bonuses to any fleet of any size. And the ships hit points and resistances that you suggest would make the ships imortal walls hen you consider putting tanking mods on them.
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2008.09.29 03:39:00 - [516] could have a 0.0 functional mechanic though but the ship already has alot on its plate dont need to add more to it. Pre Order your Sisters of Eve ship today!!!
arbiter reformed	Posted - 2008.09.30 20:52:00 - [517] Edited by: arbiter reformed on 30/09/2008 20:54:10 the amarr ships seem very underpowerd i belive a t2 fitted abaddon would do more dps and probably win a fight against the frontline cs. im expecting if these ships come into being they will be Around the 800mill to 1bill mark the need to have the advantages that say the abso gets over the prophecy. also your not fitting to there races personality i mean traking links wtf? so bonuses for the frontline should be bs bonus: 5%damage 5%armor resistances flagship bonus: 5% rof 5%turret cap use role bonus:99%warfare links 20% to gang members cap recharge for the theatre one bs bonus:5%torp damage 5%armor resistances fglagship bonus: 10%armor amount 5%effectivness armord war links 99%reduction in warfare cpu need 20% gang members cap recharge may use 3 warfare links simultainiously the suggested changes are more fitting race wise as they are similar to the amarr cs's. there also a bit better to reflect cost of ship. these ships will cost more than capships if marauders are anything to go by (insurance remember) and there a damn sight beter than marauders or at least they should be (ie a frontline cs should eisly kill pretty mucth any marauder solo they are the pinnacle of sub cap desighn and should be awesome) oh and give them both a bit more armor Signature removed as it was stretching the forums. Navigator
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.10.01 00:32:00 - [518] As you will note those are the original specs for the Flagships. They were nothing more then rebodied versions of the older Command Ships. But several problems came out of those designs right off the bat. First and foremost was the fact that they would be so grossly overpowered for their class as to render them as solo PvP platforms. They also rendered all other battleships second rate including the Black-Ops and the Marauder. This was pointed out by many of the people who contributed to this forum. So to prevent this I had to convert them into being more command oriented. As I worked toward that goal, many people pointed out that they still do the same damage and theoreticly the same DPS as the marauders and have better tanks. So I reduced the DPS by lowering the bonus and changing out turrets and launchers. After dealing with that I had to make them unique in their bonuses for the fleet, hence the mini titan bonus. But all of that was in the name of making them bee fleet command oriented and balance. As for a Flagship verses a Battleship of the same class? I would easily give it to the Flagship for many reasons. But first lets restrict the fittings to T2. First off the Flagship has a superior active tank and on almost all the ships are going to be more then likely cap stable. Also the passive tank is garenteed to have more effective HP on the Frontline Command Ships. As for DPS? Well that depends largely on the fittings. But it should be close to if not a little less then the DPS coming out of a Tier 3 battleship. The reason for the DPS reduction is to prevent the Tier 3 ships becoming completely obsolete. That was a concerned voiced by many people on the thread and so i tried to make sure it was balanced as such.
arbiter reformed	Posted - 2008.10.01 01:21:00 - [519] i agree theatre command ships shouldnt do massive dps ok fair nuff, but the frontline? cummon why would i pay more for less dps, if these ships were on sale now at their no doubt would be ludicrous price they would sit in the same hanger as my nightmare for the OOoooo a black abaddon effect. the damnation is better at warfare links than your proposed theatre command ship and with cs 5 itll have a similar tank (that cap bonus is nice tho). i however often fly a abso it main use like it or not is as a damage ship. it is at least 5 times better than a prophecy and costs around 7 times as much, an absolution does and should easily destroy a prophecy. much the same should be the case with the frontline if you spend 2 bill on a ship (ie faction fittings implant so on) why shouldnt you be able to kill 2 abaddons at one time solo. its all risk reward abaddons will never be redundant because there much lower risk yet still very good and far more acessible. however this is somthing that sounds like we will never agree on soooo take away the frigate 5 skill req you dont need it for cs you shouldnt need it for these Signature removed as it was stretching the forums. Navigator
arbiter reformed	Posted - 2008.10.01 01:36:00 - [520] Edited by: arbiter reformed on 01/10/2008 01:36:52 oh and if you going to give a ew/ logistical bonus give it a massive massive cap transfer bonus make it as good as the guardian at cap transfer for all i care just traking links wtf those are only found on: minmitar/ gallente ships. it seems you are giving these ships useless bonuses which do not fit in with any other ammar ship, which would of course be sad cos i mean black abaddons!!!, id love to fly that pvp i would want it to be more used than my redeemer i would want it to be uber pwnage because its a black/gold and red abaddon!!!! edit:nice to see how much work youve put into this thread tho keep it up Signature removed as it was stretching the forums. Navigator
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.10.02 17:46:00 - [521] Honestly the main reason for the less DPS is to make the ships more pallatable for CCP. There is a lot of pre-nerfing in these ships. This is to basicly keep the claims of trying to make Marauders and the Tier 3 Battleships obsolete to a minimum. I totally agree that I would much rather fly a regular Abaddon in a solo fight because I'm less likely to be out a billion Isk. But understand that there is a lot of pre-nerfing and most of the designs are done on paper testing and have no actual flight time to them.
arbiter reformed	Posted - 2008.10.02 20:23:00 - [522] sounds fair. Signature removed as it was stretching the forums. Navigator
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.10.02 21:12:00 - [523] Yah its a major ballancing act trying to satisfy as many customers as possible if you get what I mean. But to be honest I really have no clue what these ships are capable of without a full test version on EVE. But thats is very unlikely to happen at this point. In other news, I will be putting up newer versions with changes that people have suggested. They will be up in a week or so.
Mashie Saldana Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams	Posted - 2008.10.02 21:30:00 - [524] Why would you skill up for one of these if you only can activate two gangmods at once? Now make that number four and give Marauder style bonus to the other four highslots.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.10.03 15:14:00 - [525] That is a nerf that was put on the Theater Command Ships after people pointed out that that ship would render the Command Ship (Fleet Command Ship spesificly)obsolete. Also consider all of the Flagships get a fleet command bonus of some kind regardless of modules fitted to them. As for reducing the number of turrets to the same as a Marauder. Reducing the number of turrets to that of a marauder while giving it a better tank then a Marauder and giving it the ability to use gang warfare links is only going to do one thing. Its going to render the entire line of Marauders obsolete. Reducing the number of turrets to 4 and then give a 100% bonus to damage dose not ballance out the ship lass. Remember that you are reducing the power grid and CPU need for the guns by half, the cap use by half, the ammo consumption by half, yet you have the same damage as if you had 8 guns. This will do nothing but make the ships far more powerful then they need to be. Not to mention that it would render an entire class of ships useless. The reason for the turret slots is it forces pilots to make a choice in their fittings. Yes they will have massive firepower, but they will be far more cap unstable. Do they active tank of passive tank? Do they replace a low slot module from a damage module to a Reactor Control Unit so they can fit the last gun? Do they put on a warfare link instead? Thats the set of issues that a pod pilot should be worrying about.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.10.06 15:43:00 - [526] AMARR Name: Requiem Hull: Abaddon Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Carthum Conglomerate Carthum ships are the very embodiment of the Amarrian warfare philosophy. Possessing sturdy armor and advanced weapons systems, they provide a nice mix of offense and defense. On the other hand, their electronics and shield systems tend to be rather limited. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Energy Turret damage per level, 5% bonus armor Resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Capacitor Recharge Rate per level, 5% bonus to Large Energy Turret capacitor cost per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 20% bonus to Tracking Link and Tracking Computer effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 4 mid / 8 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 20700 CPU: 530 Hard points: 8 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 6850 Shield Resistances: 0/65/52.5/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 9000 Armor Resistances: 50/35/37.5/35 Hull HP: 8000 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 75m^3s Drone Bandwidth: 75 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6375 Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 80km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Radar 22 Signature Radius: 480m Scanner Resolution: 85 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Fusion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command I --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Amarr Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Amarr Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery IV --> Weapon Upgrade IV Name: Oblivion Hull: Abaddon Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Khanid Innovations In addition to robust electronics systems, the Khanid Kingdom's ships possess advanced armor alloys capable of withstanding a great deal of punishment. Generally eschewing the use of turrets, they tend to gear their vessels more towards close-range missile combat. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Torpedo damage per level, 5% bonus to armor Resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Capacitor Recharge Rate per level, 3% bonus to effectiveness of Armored Warfare Links module per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 5 mid / 7 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 19500 CPU: 530 Hard points: 1 Turret/6 Launcher Shield HP: 7350 Shield Resistances: 0/65/52.5/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8400 Armor Resistances: 50/35/37.5/35 Hull HP: 8000 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3s Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6375 Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 80km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Radar 22 Signature Radius: 480m Scanner Resolution: 85 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Fusion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command I --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Amarr Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Amarr Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics IV -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Armored Warfare Link III
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.10.06 15:44:00 - [527] CALDARI Name: Bastion Hull: Rohk Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Ishukone Most of the recent designs off their assembly line have provided for a combination that the Ishukone name is becoming known for great long-range capabilities and shield systems unmatched anywhere else. Caldari Battleship Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range per level, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 20% bonus to ECCM and Remote ECCM effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 14900 CPU: 750 Hard points: 7 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 9250 Shield Resistances: 0/50/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6750 Armor Resistances: 50/10/50/57.5 Hull HP: 7250 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command I --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Caldari Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Caldari Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery V --> Weapon Upgrade IV Name: Tsunami Hull: Rokh Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Kaalakiota As befits one of the largest weapons manufacturers in the known world, Kaalakiota's ships are very combat focused. Favoring the traditional Caldari combat strategy, they are designed around a substantial number of weapons systems, especially missile launchers. However, they have rather weak armor and structure, relying more on shields for protection. Cladari Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Missile Launcher rate of fire per level, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Siege Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 7 mid / 5 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 13500 CPU: 750 Hard points: 1 Turret/6 Launcher Shield HP: 9250 Shield Resistances: 0/50/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6500 Armor Resistances: 50/10/50/57.5 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command I --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Caldari Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Caldari Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics IV -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Siege Warfare Link III
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.10.06 15:45:00 - [528] GALLENTE Name: Athena Hull: Hyperion Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Duvolle Labs Duvolle Labs manufactures sturdy ships with a good mix of offensive and defensive capabilities. Since the company is one of New Eden's foremost manufacturers of particle blasters, its ships tend to favor turrets and thus have somewhat higher power output than normal. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Hybrid Turrets damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Armor Hit Points per level, 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret falloff per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 12.5% bonus to Sensor Booster and Remote Sensor Booster effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 5 mid / 7 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 15650 CPU: 570 Hard points: 8 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 7000 Shield Resistances: 0/50/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8350 Armor Resistances: 50/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8900 Velocity: 130m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command I --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Gallente Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Gallente Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery V --> Weapon Upgrade IV Name: Artimus Hull: Hyperion Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: CreoDron As the largest drone developer and manufacturer in space, CreoDron has a vested interest in drone carriers. While sacrificing relatively little in the way of defensive capability, the Artimus can chew its way through surprisingly strong opponents - provided, of course, that the pilot uses top-of-the-line CreoDron drones. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 10% bonus to drone Hit Points and Damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Armor Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Information Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 14150 CPU: 570 Hard points: 6 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 7000 Shield Resistances: 0/50/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8500 Armor Resistances: 50/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8750 Velocity: 130m/s Drone Bay: 175m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 125 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command I --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Gallente Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Gallente Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics IV -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Information Warfare Link III
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.10.06 15:47:00 - [529] MINMATAR Name: Firestorm Hull: Maelstrom Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Boundless Creations Boundless Creation's ships are based on the Brutor tribe's philosophy of warfare: simply fit as much firepower onto your ship as possible. Defense systems and electronics arrays therefore tend to take a back seat to sheer annihilative potential. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Projectile Turret damage per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Signature Radius reduction per level, 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret falloff per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 20% bonus to Target Painter effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 18700 CPU: 610 Hard points: 8 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 7650 Shield Resistances: 15/50/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8100 Armor Resistances: 75/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 115m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command I --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Minmatar Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Minmatar Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Electronics V -> Gunnery V --> Weapon Upgrade IV Name: Halberd Hull: Maelstrom Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Core Complexion Core Complexion's ships are unusual in that they favor electronics and defense over the "lots of guns" approach traditionally favored by the Minmatar. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Signature Radius reduction per level, 3% bonus to Skirmish Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 High / 7 Mid / 5 Low / 2 rig Power Grid: 18100 CPU: 610 Hard points: 4 Turret/3 Launcher Shield HP: 8300 Shield Resistances: 15/50/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 7350 Armor Resistances: 75/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7600 Velocity: 115m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command I --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Minmatar Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Minmatar Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics IV -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Skirmish Warfare Link III
Kash Ka Amarr Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.10.06 19:46:00 - [530] Edited by: Kash Ka on 06/10/2008 19:46:28 They all look pretty good, but the amarr ones might be a bit overpowered compared to the others, guess it makes for a nice change. --------------==============================-------------- Forgiveness is between you and god, im just here to arrange the meeting. "When death smiles at you, all you can do is smile back"
Fragito Dragon's Rage Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.10.06 20:21:00 - [531] Excellent idea... /signed
Naomi Wildfire Amarr Stardust Heavy Industries Majesta Empire	Posted - 2008.10.07 02:06:00 - [532] Quote: Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Capacitor Recharge Rate per level What if there are multiple Flagships? Fleets of them could be unstoppable.
Fragito Dragon's Rage Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.10.07 03:37:00 - [533] I wouldn't say unstoppable, but hard to kill yes. But think about his proposal and how he presents it; "to fill the gap between a battleship and capital ships" (Balor Haliquin page 1). It will lessen the benefits of the sovereignty capital, and make fleets more likely to attack cynosural jammed solar systems. Having stronger ships to counter capital fleets is needed for a change; maybe you can even put in a doomsday resistance so it is no so easily repelled.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.10.07 04:36:00 - [534] Edited by: Balor Haliquin on 07/10/2008 04:38:01 As fleet bonuses go, it takes the ship with the highest. So their is no stacking. The max that a Amarr Flagship can give is +25% to cap recharge rate.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.10.14 03:45:00 - [535] Bump I really hate doing this but i would like to keep this thread going. So looking for any more points that can be made about this.
Ragnar Voldair	Posted - 2008.10.26 01:59:00 - [536] I think these are a fantastic idea....and, appart from adding a new layer of training, they fill a very realy need for something thats "almost" a cap ship. Question is...will they be allowed in high sec?
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.10.26 02:22:00 - [537] I see no reason to not allow them in high sec. Capital Ships are banned for their ability to tank CONCORD for a long period of time. And one of the main selling points of the ship is to bring the bonuses of the Titan into high sec and areas that prevent capital ships from going. This could be high sec, it could be a cyno jammed system, it could be many places where capital ships just can't get to in a timely manner. So preventing it from going to high sec is killing a major selling point and their is no real ballance reason to do it.
Zathrus	Posted - 2008.10.26 14:02:00 - [538] I see no reason not to let these ships in high sec. as this would allow for more fun for corp wars. So when and where can I get one of these ships?
Su27frogfoot Caldari Red Moon Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.26 16:34:00 - [539] I like the ide but from what i can see skill requirments are a bit low, we are talking about a small titan here as far as I can see Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command I --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV make this V Secondary Skill Required > Amarr Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Amarr Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery IV make it V as it realy is but just to point it out --> Weapon Upgrade IV make it V same thing as above Maby ad: Advanced Weapons Upgrade to IV change some of the bounses too to be inline with other ships of that faction. Other than that I can't see any problems right at this moment oh and make it cost like say a black ops ship so people can fly them in 0.0 too so around 500 mil is good
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.10.26 20:25:00 - [540] As far as the skill requirements for the ships are concerned, the skills as of now are ballanced for the ammount of time they would take between the two different versions of the ships. For example, if a person started skilling for one of the ships it would take them on average (assuming they have implants and reasonable learning skills) about 6-8 months. Thats just for the basics. Remember these are just the basics to fly the ship. Not the recomended skills to fly the ship well. I can see your point in so much as these skills would go a long way to helping the pilot be more effective with the ship. But they are by no means required by game mechanics to do that for a lot of the ships in the game. A point well taken though. As for the cost of the ship, that is going to be more dependent on the market rather then anything els. As long as CCP continues to not release the Tech 2 BPOs like they have in the past for the other tech 2 battleships then the price is going to be a bit harder to predict. That being said if the ship do ever make into the game, we will likely see the price skyrocket on release to about 1.5bil Isk and then drop over the next few months as more and more ships make it to market. This has been the case with the other T2 battleships, both stared off sevierly overpriced and they have no come way down do to market forces. So the short of it is that i cant say what the price will be.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.11.02 21:43:00 - [541] I was looking at the requirements for Marauders and forgot that they do need Advanced Weapons Upgrades to 5. Im not sure how i would work in the skill requirement for the Flagship.
Reptar Dragon THE FINAL STAND	Posted - 2008.11.02 22:54:00 - [542] They'll need to be Tier 3 BS's, no more ****ing raven models please.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.11.03 04:03:00 - [543] thats the plan man. As the designs stand they are all based off of the Tier 3 battleships. I don't know if you have seen them but the designs are up. Go to the first entry on the forum thread and click on the links to them.
Inquisitor Berthez the oNe Penal Colony	Posted - 2008.11.03 08:41:00 - [544] /signed up for these. Pimp my NavPoc
Nexus Kinnon Neo Spartans	Posted - 2008.11.03 13:45:00 - [545] The minmatar one looks pretty crap
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.11.03 15:38:00 - [546] I have to admit that I do not know the Minmatar ship design philosiphy. I did the best I could but the designs lack a certain ability about them I think. Where as the other races have their ships set up with 2 different types of weapon systems that they are specializing in (Amarr: Lasers/Missiles, Gallente: Hybrid/Drones, Caldari: Hybrid/Missiles) I can't seem to figure out what the alternate weapons system should be for the Minmatar. Any suggestions would be nice.
Kashon Rea King's Empire	Posted - 2008.11.04 06:43:00 - [547] An advanced Commandship is a good idea, And with a balanced operation it may even survive Death is not the answer only a means to an end.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.11.04 06:47:00 - [548] I think at that point it matters more as to how the fleet commander sets up his fleet and how the ships are set up then anything that Flagship can outright tank. Lets face it, it has been demonstraited that even a fully officer and deadspace fitted Titan will drop if the enemy really wants it dead.
Kashon Rea King's Empire	Posted - 2008.11.04 07:10:00 - [549] I would be interested at getting peoples oppinion on replacing the drone bonuses and replace it with a bonus of +1 drone and +25 bandwidth per level Death is not the answer only a means to an end.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.11.04 07:14:00 - [550] There is a very good reason why their are no more ships, save the Guardian Vexor, that have a bonus like that. The original reason behind it was to reduce server lag and drop the massive DPS of the Vexor and the Ishtar. They introduced bandwith to further hamper this issue. I'm not sure that allowing a ship that could easily be made into fleets with the ability to drop more then 5 drones at a time would be a good idea. it seems like something that would make the ship a bit to powerful.
Kashon Rea King's Empire	Posted - 2008.11.04 07:19:00 - [551] I understand the reasoning behind the drone limit, but as it can fit warfare modules could it not also fit drone control units within certain limitations as in CPU and Power grid so that its a trade off as to which modules are fitted Death is not the answer only a means to an end.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.11.04 07:24:00 - [552] There have been many ideas about have Drone Warfare Links, I have thought about the subject myself. But I think that is the realm ofa different thread topic. As for having a module that adds more drone control? I think the only thing that comes close is the carrier/mothership module that allows the control of an additional fighter. I'm not sure how it would work on the sub-capital scale. But i think thats something that should be kept to the capital realm. Adding more drones to any ship would make that ship a little to unballanced. though I would imagine that you would have to sacrifice a bonus and a high slot just to get the ability to. And at that point why bother with the ship?
NupetietVer Neuro Cartographic Services	Posted - 2008.11.07 16:17:00 - [553] Bump-I want my Flagship!
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.11.08 23:19:00 - [554] I do to, but I think the only way to ensure their placement in the game is more work and more trying to convince the devs that they are a good idea. I think a forum thread that has lasted 19 pages and almost a year on subject says something about the idea.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.11.13 16:42:00 - [555] I'm trying to work in an Advanced Spaceship Command skill requirement. Not sure yet to what level or if it should be on all ships.
Camdim Caldari The first genesis INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.11.13 21:01:00 - [556] I like the over all concept. But I would like to see a few things changed in the current game and then modify the ships slightly based on what you have. Leadership skills/links should have a range limit on them. Currently they could sit in a far corner of the system and still give bonuses when not even in the combat. Second the "Theater Command Ship" should be based something like the orca not off the battleship. With ammo and cargo and fitting array. This ship would be used to allow your squad or wing to resupply, refit, change ships without having to leave the system. This ship would also give a range bonus to skills and links so they can be kept back a bit from the action but still be close enough to lend support. They should have one or two high slots for weapons ( with capitol ship ability ) and a couple of slots for links or they could all be links with decent cap for drones. The main strenght of this type of ship is it ability to keep ships in the theater of war. Allow the use of multipule links. The defense on this type of ship should be that of a battleship. You could also link this type of a ship to automaticlly share out way points to the fleet that actually get marked on the screen rather then just linked. This would represent the direct command functions of this ships computers and sensors. Requirements would be like leadership 5 advanced spaceship command 3 ect...Should be kept low enough for entry requirements that someone going the leadership route could get into this ship while on that route.
rogue trdr	Posted - 2008.11.14 06:49:00 - [557] I think both idears are good. Id like to see a T2 bs that was actually worth the isk unlike black ops and marauders atm. Both a sub cap cmd ship and T2 teir 3 bs would be great additions to the game.
Clydar Dramos 101st Space Marine Force The Leathernecks	Posted - 2008.11.14 11:16:00 - [558] I will definately get one of these, if CCP even makes them that is... I think they are too busy playing with their Lego atm though...
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.11.14 16:16:00 - [559] The idea for changing the theater command ship into something more then just a Tech 2 Tier 3 battleship has been proposed before. The idea often comes in the form of making it into a heavy logistics ship. I'm a firm beliver in making sure that all the ships in a class should be fairly uniform. Having a ship class that gets you both a heavy command ship and a heavy logistics ship is not going to work. No other skill for a ship (ie, Battlecruisers, Amarr Battleships, and the like) has that ability. I think a completely seperate heavy logistics class would do the trick. Im going to have the changes that QR put into the game put onto the ship designs to keep them up to date. Basicly everything will be losing 20m/s in speed and some of the missile bonuses will be changing.
Clydar Dramos 101st Space Marine Force The Leathernecks	Posted - 2008.11.14 18:19:00 - [560] I'd love it if someone can do whatever it is you have to do, to get these ships into EFT so we can see what we could do with them... Just for kicks...
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.11.14 20:55:00 - [561] I would have to say that would be really helpful as far as ballancing them. But it think one would have to talk to the people who make EFT. Im not sure who they are and so on.
Noah Cyril	Posted - 2008.11.15 12:43:00 - [562] Cant believe i missed out this topic for so long, this idea seems great and it should fill the huge gap between a BS and a capital. I got a question on the caladri version. The shield resisten is : 0/50/55/32.5, and the armour is:50/10/50/57.5. I'll take that as EM/Explosive/Thermal/kin. I can understand the higher thermal resis because of it is design to tank against the enemy(gallente), but why is the base resis of the kin dmg is lower then even T1 non bonus resis, which gallente does as well with hybrid and while that kin resis for armour is much higher then shield? shouldn't both the resis for thermal and kin will be higher then the normal base resis for a T1 ship. maby I am reading it wrong, but I dont no, can some 1 give me some feedback on this plz. And 2nd, I do know the drone bay for a Rokh is 50m3(which i think is low while the Tier 1&2 BS hav a 75ms bay and bandwith), but should't the T2 version of it at least get an upgrade to 75m3, as medium drones is not as effective against smaller target after the QR patch, a 75m3 bay can at least give it a choise of a wing of light or medium drones. Apart from those 2 thing, I think the caldari flag ship is good. Maby another thing, how about the usual 10% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range per level rather then 7.5% and 3% to Large Hybrid Turret cap use or tracking(lol) or dmg per level for the Frontline Command Ship(just some suggestion, as a 7.5% range following by a 3% range bonus seems a but odd to me) And the drone bay on the gallente Theater Command Ship does seems a bit small to me. whie it is a drone ship, I think the drone bay should be bring into line with the Domi. this is just some suggestion as that is effectivelly a drone boat with its bonus.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.11.15 17:41:00 - [563] Okay, so the resistances are a bit odd but let me try and explain how I have seen them work on T2 ships. The only difference between the T1 and T2 of a ship is that their base resistances are higher on only two of them. These two happen to be on the racial specific (Amarr: Exp/Kin , Gallente: Thr/Kin , Caldari: Kin/Thr , Minmatar: EM/Thr ). So even on the base resistances for Caldari, their shield thermal resistance (20) is lower then their armor thermal resistance (45). This is even true on some of their T2 ships like the Nighthawk (Shield Thermal Resistance = 70, Armor Thermal Resistance = 79.37). So its not in fact an error, its just a strange artifact of how the resistance math is done. I'm not sure increasing the drone bay is a good idea on the Bastion. I suppose you could increase the size of the drone bay but not the drone control. I'm not sure of it because it is very out of line on how T2 ships for the Caldari are made. The drone bay of the Artimus is already 75m^3 bigger then the standard Hyperion. And it can fly a full wing of heavy drones. So I don't think an increase is needed for the Artimus on drone bay size.
Noah Cyril	Posted - 2008.11.15 18:43:00 - [564] Thx. But i still am a bit unclear on something. maby I asked the question wrong.I'll try to list more examples to express want I ment. The shield resis for the Bastion and the Tsunami is (without the 5% bonus per lvl added on yet)EM:0/Explosive:50/Thermal:55/Kin:32.5 And this is the Rokh base resis(without skill bonus) :EM:0/Explosive:50/Thermal:20/Kin:40, which mean the EM and explosive resis stay the same(which is suppose to be), the thermal resis got boosted by 35%(which again is normal as their enemy us gallente, which uses thermal mainly), now is the kin resis, which is reduced by7.5% while it should get a boost like the other Caldari T2 ships I'll use the ferox and the nighthawk as example. ferox shield resis(without BC skill bonus):EM:0/Explosive:50/thermal:20/kin:40 Nighthawk(again without the BC skill bonus to shield resis):EM:0/Explosive:50/thermal:70/kin:62.5 Which mean EM and explosive resis hav no boost(normal), thermal hav a 50% boost and kin hav a 22.5% boost. so the thermal and kin resis is boosted and the thermal resis boosted more as that ia gallente main dmg type while the kin is 2nd. IF that is the case, why is the kin resis of the caldari flag ships are nerfed to even below their T1 version while it should get a boost when that is the 2nd dmg of the enemy race which all the other T2 caldari ships get a boost on that resis?
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.11.15 20:30:00 - [565] Ohhhh, no no no. You have the resistances wrong. The Rokh's base resistances are 00 EM/50 Exp/40 Kin/20 Thr for shields. The Tsunami and the Bastion 00 EM/50 Exp/55 Kin/32.5 Thr for shields. This is a 15% bonus to Kinetic and 12.5% to thermal. The armor is much the same 50 EM/10 Exp/35 Kin/45 Thr for the base. And then 50 EM/10 Exp/50 Kin/57.5 Thr for the T2 ship. Why so small? Thats simply a ballance issue, the other battleships do not have the same high bonus as the tech 2 battlecruisers and below.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.11.15 21:41:00 - [566] AMARR Name: Requiem Hull: Abaddon Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Carthum Conglomerate Carthum ships are the very embodiment of the Amarrian warfare philosophy. Possessing sturdy armor and advanced weapons systems, they provide a nice mix of offense and defense. On the other hand, their electronics and shield systems tend to be rather limited. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Energy Turret damage per level, 5% bonus armor Resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Capacitor Recharge Rate per level, 5% bonus to Large Energy Turret capacitor cost per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 20% bonus to Tracking Link and Tracking Computer effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 4 mid / 8 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 20700 CPU: 530 Hard points: 8 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 6850 Shield Resistances: 0/65/52.5/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 9000 Armor Resistances: 50/35/37.5/35 Hull HP: 8000 Velocity: 89m/s Drone Bay: 75m^3s Drone Bandwidth: 75 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6375 Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 80km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Radar 22 Signature Radius: 480m Scanner Resolution: 85 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Fusion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command I --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Amarr Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Amarr Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery IV --> Weapon Upgrade IV Name: Vanquisher Hull: Abaddon Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Khanid Innovations In addition to robust electronics systems, the Khanid Kingdom's ships possess advanced armor alloys capable of withstanding a great deal of punishment. Generally eschewing the use of turrets, they tend to gear their vessels more towards close-range missile combat. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Torpedo explosion velocity per level, 5% bonus to armor Resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Capacitor Recharge Rate per level, 3% bonus to effectiveness of Armored Warfare Links module per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 5 mid / 7 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 19500 CPU: 530 Hard points: 1 Turret/6 Launcher Shield HP: 7350 Shield Resistances: 0/65/52.5/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8400 Armor Resistances: 50/35/37.5/35 Hull HP: 8000 Velocity: 89m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3s Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6375 Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 80km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Radar 22 Signature Radius: 480m Scanner Resolution: 85 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Fusion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command I --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Amarr Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Amarr Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics IV -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Armored Warfare Link III
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.11.15 21:42:00 - [567] CALDARI Name: Bastion Hull: Rohk Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Ishukone Most of the recent designs off their assembly line have provided for a combination that the Ishukone name is becoming known for great long-range capabilities and shield systems unmatched anywhere else. Caldari Battleship Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range per level, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 20% bonus to ECCM and Remote ECCM effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 14900 CPU: 750 Hard points: 7 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 9250 Shield Resistances: 0/50/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6750 Armor Resistances: 50/10/50/57.5 Hull HP: 7250 Velocity: 89m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command I --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Caldari Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Caldari Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery V --> Weapon Upgrade IV Name: Tsunami Hull: Rokh Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Kaalakiota As befits one of the largest weapons manufacturers in the known world, Kaalakiota's ships are very combat focused. Favoring the traditional Caldari combat strategy, they are designed around a substantial number of weapons systems, especially missile launchers. However, they have rather weak armor and structure, relying more on shields for protection. Cladari Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Missile Launcher rate of fire per level, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Siege Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 7 mid / 5 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 13500 CPU: 750 Hard points: 1 Turret/6 Launcher Shield HP: 9250 Shield Resistances: 0/50/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6500 Armor Resistances: 50/10/50/57.5 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 89m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command I --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Caldari Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Caldari Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics IV -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Siege Warfare Link III
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.11.15 21:44:00 - [568] GALLENTE Name: Athena Hull: Hyperion Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Duvolle Labs Duvolle Labs manufactures sturdy ships with a good mix of offensive and defensive capabilities. Since the company is one of New Eden's foremost manufacturers of particle blasters, its ships tend to favor turrets and thus have somewhat higher power output than normal. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Hybrid Turrets damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Armor Hit Points per level, 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret falloff per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 12.5% bonus to Sensor Booster and Remote Sensor Booster effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 5 mid / 7 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 15650 CPU: 570 Hard points: 8 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 7000 Shield Resistances: 0/50/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8350 Armor Resistances: 50/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8900 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command I --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Gallente Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Gallente Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery V --> Weapon Upgrade IV Name: Artimus Hull: Hyperion Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: CreoDron As the largest drone developer and manufacturer in space, CreoDron has a vested interest in drone carriers. While sacrificing relatively little in the way of defensive capability, the Artimus can chew its way through surprisingly strong opponents - provided, of course, that the pilot uses top-of-the-line CreoDron drones. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 10% bonus to drone Hit Points and Damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Armor Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Information Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 14150 CPU: 570 Hard points: 6 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 7000 Shield Resistances: 0/50/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8500 Armor Resistances: 50/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8750 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 175m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 125 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command I --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Gallente Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Gallente Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics IV -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Information Warfare Link III
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.11.15 21:45:00 - [569] MINMATAR Name: Lahar Hull: Maelstrom Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Boundless Creations Boundless Creation's ships are based on the Brutor tribe's philosophy of warfare: simply fit as much firepower onto your ship as possible. Defense systems and electronics arrays therefore tend to take a back seat to sheer annihilative potential. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Projectile Turret damage per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Signature Radius reduction per level, 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret falloff per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 20% bonus to Target Painter effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 18700 CPU: 610 Hard points: 8 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 7650 Shield Resistances: 15/50/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8100 Armor Resistances: 75/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 94m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command I --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Minmatar Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Minmatar Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Electronics V -> Gunnery V --> Weapon Upgrade IV Name: Halberd Hull: Maelstrom Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Core Complexion Core Complexion's ships are unusual in that they favor electronics and defense over the "lots of guns" approach traditionally favored by the Minmatar. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Signature Radius reduction per level, 3% bonus to Skirmish Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 High / 7 Mid / 5 Low / 2 rig Power Grid: 18100 CPU: 610 Hard points: 4 Turret/3 Launcher Shield HP: 8300 Shield Resistances: 15/50/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 7350 Armor Resistances: 75/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7600 Velocity: 94m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command I --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Minmatar Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Minmatar Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics IV -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Skirmish Warfare Link III
Munio Veritas Black Legion Command Black Legion.	Posted - 2008.11.15 21:46:00 - [570] It's spelled Artemis, by the way, not Artimus.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.11.15 21:51:00 - [571] Ohh for god sake (edits the post)
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.11.15 22:01:00 - [572] I had to change the names of some of the ship because I either did not like them or they were used somewhere els in the game. Firestorm is now the Lahar (basicly a pyroclastic flow from a volcano) Oblivion is now the Vanquisher The Vanquisher has also had its bonus to its torpedos changed to explosion velocity rather then rate of fire.
Noah Cyril	Posted - 2008.11.15 22:47:00 - [573] Arrr, is all clear now =p soz for the miss read. Maby(or i am =p) being picky, of all the caldari T2 ships the boost for the thermal resis is always higher then the kin resisi boost and even higher then the kin resis because thermal is gallente's main dmg(so it seems as caldari is the kin dmg) should't the flag ship be the same. Cause is the gallente that should hav a higher kin resis boost as they r design to tank against caldari, sorry for being so picky =p
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.11.15 22:50:00 - [574] ill have to look into that, thanks for pointing it out.
Rathverg Wildlands Heavy Technologies FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.11.16 23:46:00 - [575] Edited by: Rathverg on 16/11/2008 23:48:35 -edit- made myself look like a moron, ignore please
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.11.17 00:08:00 - [576] No problem man, we all do it occasionaly.
Gantor Tesla	Posted - 2008.11.17 10:36:00 - [577] Edited by: Gantor Tesla on 17/11/2008 10:42:08 I think Flagships should be able to do a Battleships worth of DMG, while running a CS worth of links. I really think 1 ship, with a Marauder style DMG bonus, and the ability to run 3 links would be great. The problem with CS is you get DPS or Links. The problem with a BS is no links. So bolt a Vulture to a Rokh and send us on our way. If we had to do a Field Com / Fleet Com style, why not: Field: 100% Role Bonus to BS sized weapon, 4 weapons Able to run 3 links 100% Per Flagship lvl to Link effectiveness Fleet: 500% Role Bonus to Cap Transport and ______ Rep Range Able to run 6 links 100% per Flagship lvl to link effectiveness. 20% per Flagship lvl to Cap Trans / Rep amount This ship definitely needs to require Spaceship Command V, not IV. P.S. Please make Caldari version able to use either Missiles or Guns.
Noah Cyril	Posted - 2008.11.17 15:17:00 - [578] That is just overpowering 100% Per Flagship lvl to Link effectiveness??, a 50man fleet with 2 of those flagship can wipe another fleet 5 times it size if they dont hav a flagship, it will be fleet busting small gang then, which is close to gang busting solo BS.....and u want a logistic range and Trans / Rep amount as well?? and the caldari version is gun or missile, always hav been like caracal/moa; raven/rokh, i dont see why the falgship should do both(or be able to choose from 2 in 1 ship)the design now is fine, 1 missile boat and 1 gun boat.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.11.17 17:12:00 - [579] The reason I have not not given the Flagships huge logistics bonuses and a Marauder style gun and damage setup is very simple. I wanted to avoid making a Marauder clone and make them as effective as Marauders at doing missions. No giving the player the ability to simply have, effectively, 8 guns and the ability to run all the warfare links with no penelty will not only make the Marauders less effective but it will completely overshadow the Command Ships. Secondly, Flagships are regular battleships with heavily upgraded fleet control functions. They are not logistics ships. I'm not saying that their should be no battleship sized logistics ship. I'm saying that it should be its own unique varient or ship. Trying to make a ship that is a jack of all trades will simply place it in the hall of fail, or is done very wrong, the halls of absolute win and needing to be nerfed.
Gantor Tesla	Posted - 2008.11.18 20:12:00 - [580] I'm sorry, I didn't realize this thread was about what YOU want in a T2 BS. I thought it was a forum for ideas. Fact: Quoted from the CS Info page "Command ships are engineered specifically to wreak havoc on a battlefield of many. Sporting advanced command module interfaces, these vessels are more than capable of turning the tide in large engagements." Battleship Chassis Command Ships should be EVEN BETTER. The ridiculous training time required makes the ridiculous bonuses acceptable. Warfare Link Specialist V should be a prereq. You want to talk about overpowered? You have those ships so short of training time they are going to be the only ship to fly. These crazy ships NEED more level 5 requirements. Fleet Command Ships ARE logistics ships, whether you want them to have a bonus to rep transport or not. A BS class CS should have the ability to run more links, and do an even better job of supporting the fleet. With the Fleet Command style I suggested you would need to choose between extra repping your fleet, and giving them links. I think the bonuses I prescribed are fine if the ship requires more skills. I also think this ship should have an advanced spaceship command ship requirement. The sharing of the Marauder Bonus makes great role play sense. You take the same systems and equip them to a ship and free up slots for links. In war you take what you have and make better stuff. You do not have the time to research new tech, you need the advantage NOW. The Field Command ships have always been about DPS first, and Links secondary. These are the go into the mix and get it done guys. They need DPS, they need tank, and the link is a nice touch. So you give them All their DPS and a normal set of links. For the Fleet Command style of "sit out of the way and coordinate" they get a second link array to run 6 links at the same time, as well as a rep / cap trans bonus to further their support role.
Gantor Tesla	Posted - 2008.11.18 20:27:00 - [581] Originally by: Noah Cyril and the caldari version is gun or missile, always hav been like caracal/moa; raven/rokh, i dont see why the falgship should do both(or be able to choose from 2 in 1 ship)the design now is fine, 1 missile boat and 1 gun boat. You are obviously not a Caldari pilot. I HATE being told what ship to fly. I trained HALF a race's ships because the Harpy, Raptor, Ferox, Moa, Rokh, Vulture, and Eagle are all turret only boats. And those that have either or NEVER have bonuses for both. If you're a missile user you get the Hawk, Raven, Caracal, Drake, and Nighthawk. If you want to use missiles and a Fleet Command ship, you can't. The best Caldari BS is the Rokh, which does almost no dmg with missiles on. I do not want to be told once again that I can not have a Missile / Fleet Command Ship.
Hatsumi Kobayashi Caldari The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2008.11.19 02:58:00 - [582] Originally by: Gantor Tesla A BS class CS should have the ability to run more links, and do an even better job of supporting the fleet. [...] For the Fleet Command style of "sit out of the way and coordinate" they get a second link array to run 6 links at the same time, as well as a rep / cap trans bonus to further their support role. The way i see it, the flagships as suggested now have a "built-in" warfare link, in that they give their fleet a bonus based on the skill level whether they have a link fitted or not. By fitting 2 links you get the effect of three, hence freeing a high slot in the process. In any case, I love this idea. Thumbs up from me.
Hercules Soban	Posted - 2008.11.19 09:39:00 - [583] that would be great!! MORE ships more fun
Noah Cyril	Posted - 2008.11.19 13:38:00 - [584] Originally by: Gantor Tesla Originally by: Noah Cyril and the caldari version is gun or missile, always hav been like caracal/moa; raven/rokh, i dont see why the falgship should do both(or be able to choose from 2 in 1 ship)the design now is fine, 1 missile boat and 1 gun boat. You are obviously not a Caldari pilot. I HATE being told what ship to fly. I trained HALF a race's ships because the Harpy, Raptor, Ferox, Moa, Rokh, Vulture, and Eagle are all turret only boats. And those that have either or NEVER have bonuses for both. If you're a missile user you get the Hawk, Raven, Caracal, Drake, and Nighthawk. If you want to use missiles and a Fleet Command ship, you can't. The best Caldari BS is the Rokh, which does almost no dmg with missiles on. I do not want to be told once again that I can not have a Missile / Fleet Command Ship. If u haven't relize, there 2 tpyes of flag ship the caldari 1 do hav a missile cammand ship, it is the Tsunami Theater Command Ship, and wat i ment is there shoulden't be a ship where it got missile and gun bonus. cause except the phoon and the gurastas, but the caldari 1 is either gun range(or +dmg as well on T2)or missile dmg/rof(+range) bonus P.S. did i ever saiy u cant hav a missile cammand ship?
Noah Cyril	Posted - 2008.11.19 13:45:00 - [585] Originally by: Gantor Tesla I'm sorry, I didn't realize this thread was about what YOU want in a T2 BS. I thought it was a forum for ideas. Fact: Quoted from the CS Info page "Command ships are engineered specifically to wreak havoc on a battlefield of many. Sporting advanced command module interfaces, these vessels are more than capable of turning the tide in large engagements." Battleship Chassis Command Ships should be EVEN BETTER. The ridiculous training time required makes the ridiculous bonuses acceptable. Warfare Link Specialist V should be a prereq. You want to talk about overpowered? You have those ships so short of training time they are going to be the only ship to fly. These crazy ships NEED more level 5 requirements. Fleet Command Ships ARE logistics ships, whether you want them to have a bonus to rep transport or not. A BS class CS should have the ability to run more links, and do an even better job of supporting the fleet. With the Fleet Command style I suggested you would need to choose between extra repping your fleet, and giving them links. I think the bonuses I prescribed are fine if the ship requires more skills. I also think this ship should have an advanced spaceship command ship requirement. The sharing of the Marauder Bonus makes great role play sense. You take the same systems and equip them to a ship and free up slots for links. In war you take what you have and make better stuff. You do not have the time to research new tech, you need the advantage NOW. The Field Command ships have always been about DPS first, and Links secondary. These are the go into the mix and get it done guys. They need DPS, they need tank, and the link is a nice touch. So you give them All their DPS and a normal set of links. For the Fleet Command style of "sit out of the way and coordinate" they get a second link array to run 6 links at the same time, as well as a rep / cap trans bonus to further their support role. Yeeeeee, another I(we) win button suggestion.......
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.11.19 17:19:00 - [586] Yes these ships are what I, and at this point a lot of other people, think the Flagship should look like and fly like. The reason for not allowing the 8 guns for the price of 4 is very simple. The Marauder style bonus may look like its as simple as just more damage per gun. But it has a lot more value then just a damage bonus. Mounting 4 guns with a 100% bonus to damage instead of 8 means that not only do you effectively have 8 guns, but you are mounting those 8 guns at half the fitting/cap/slot requirement. Effectively the cost on the ship is heavily reduced. Not only that but you are now able to put in extra mods in the high slots. And yes they may be intended for one thing but it simply does not prevent players from putting what they want in them. Might I suggest that a player could have on any Flagship the 4 guns and 4 Heavy Neuts/Nos. That is a solo machine right there. The Guns are designed to be a limit as much as they are an option for the ship. The ships as of now require close to 3 months worth of directed skilling. Skilling that is focused only on flying the ships. Anything more then that might be too much for most players to even want to consider right off the bat. Yes Caldari pilots have to learn how to use both Hybrid an Missiles. Just like Amarr pilots have to learn how to use Lasers and Missiles, and Minmatar have to learn to learn how to use Projectile/Missiles/Armor/Shields, and Gallente cheat and only have to learn how to use Hybrid and Drones (which are nothing more then suplemental damage). So yes it sucks to have to go through and skill a lot of different things, but thats how it works in EVE. Most of what you are seeing is a lot of pre-nerfing. Its to prevent the ships from completely overshadowing the other battleships/command ships/T2 battleships.
Sophie Malaster Gallente EUROMECH Unlimited ARTESANOS	Posted - 2008.11.19 23:30:00 - [587] I love the names, and the properties of each ship. I think it's a very good adding for EVE, and a new rol. I'm dreaming to see the textures and the ship complited!
Sirimna	Posted - 2008.11.20 09:09:00 - [588] i may have replied before but nice one
Su27frogfoot Caldari Coalition of Nations	Posted - 2008.11.20 16:43:00 - [589] I must say looking at the latest ships it realy looks good, I would love a bit heavier DPS but i can see your point as more valied we don't need a new end of all NPCs ship but a good and soild command platform for low-sec and 0.0 small to medium size gangs. Keep this post up high and CCP has to make the ship sooner or later (sooner i hope)
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.11.22 04:48:00 - [590] I have made a mistake. Noah pointed out that I had the T2 bonuses to shields and armor in the wrong order for the Caldari. ANd he was right so ill have to change that soon.
MeBiatch	Posted - 2008.11.22 07:03:00 - [591] Edited by: MeBiatch on 22/11/2008 07:04:01 Make the Athena made by Roden Shipyards... It has more armor bonus which is more inline with Roden Shipyards montra... i.e stronger armor and tends to favor missles... you could give the ship mixed high slots between guns and missles like on a rokh but keep the same bonuses... Moreover the other two tech II bs's are already made by the other two mega corps.... atleast one of the teir 3 tech II should be made from Roden Shipyards...
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.11.29 16:40:00 - [592] I will have to figure out if the Roden ships fit the concept for the Athena. If not ill make changes apropriate to bring the Athena back into line with its mega corp. Thanks for pointing that out.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.06 05:18:00 - [593] Ill have new ship designs up this weekend. They will have some changes that people have pointed out. Thanks for the suggestions and support. I will be sending the idea off to the CSM and see what they think about it. Please help get these ships into the game.
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2008.12.06 06:23:00 - [594] good changes so far, i have no issues atm. got a price range? Pre Order your Sisters of Eve ship today!!!
Dhejay Centrix Caldari The Wailing Doom	Posted - 2008.12.06 10:54:00 - [595] YES Signed emphatically. As for price range, this would depend on what is required to build it. That said I would expect the first one of these to be around 1.2bil until the market calmed down a bit.
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.12.06 14:15:00 - [596] Originally by: Balor Haliquin MINMATAR Name: Lahar Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules Hard points: 8 Turret/0 Launcher bugged Fetchez la vache !
Karl Luckner	Posted - 2008.12.06 20:14:00 - [597] Edited by: Karl Luckner on 06/12/2008 20:15:49 Well, I had only a look at the Caldari ships, but I think they suffer from the old problem: Not enough damage and tank to bring them to the battle. Maybe the damage would not be such a big problem, since they could fill a role with those remote ECCM stuff. BUT: for gods sake, a 7th midslot would be way better the this 6th low.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.07 03:06:00 - [598] Kweel, could you please explain what you mean by bugged?
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.07 06:55:00 - [599] AMARR Name: Requiem Hull: Abaddon Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Carthum Conglomerate Carthum ships are the very embodiment of the Amarrian warfare philosophy. Possessing sturdy armor and advanced weapons systems, they provide a nice mix of offense and defense. On the other hand, their electronics and shield systems tend to be rather limited. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Energy Turret damage per level, 5% bonus armor Resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Capacitor Recharge Rate per level, 5% bonus to Large Energy Turret capacitor cost per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 20% bonus to Tracking Link and Tracking Computer effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 4 mid / 8 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 20700 CPU: 530 Hard points: 8 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 6850 Shield Resistances: 0/65/52.5/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 9000 Armor Resistances: 50/35/37.5/35 Hull HP: 8000 Velocity: 89m/s Drone Bay: 75m^3s Drone Bandwidth: 75 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6375 Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 80km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Radar 22 Signature Radius: 480m Scanner Resolution: 85 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Fusion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command I --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Amarr Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Amarr Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery IV --> Weapon Upgrade IV Name: Vanquisher Hull: Abaddon Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Khanid Innovations In addition to robust electronics systems, the Khanid Kingdom's ships possess advanced armor alloys capable of withstanding a great deal of punishment. Generally eschewing the use of turrets, they tend to gear their vessels more towards close-range missile combat. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Torpedo explosion velocity per level, 5% bonus to armor Resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Capacitor Recharge Rate per level, 3% bonus to effectiveness of Armored Warfare Links module per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 5 mid / 7 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 19500 CPU: 530 Hard points: 1 Turret/6 Launcher Shield HP: 7350 Shield Resistances: 0/65/52.5/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8400 Armor Resistances: 50/35/37.5/35 Hull HP: 8000 Velocity: 89m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3s Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6375 Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 80km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Radar 22 Signature Radius: 480m Scanner Resolution: 85 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Fusion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command I --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Amarr Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Amarr Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics IV -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Armored Warfare Link III
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.07 06:57:00 - [600] CALDARI Name: Bastion Hull: Rohk Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Ishukone Most of the recent designs off their assembly line have provided for a combination that the Ishukone name is becoming known for great long-range capabilities and shield systems unmatched anywhere else. Caldari Battleship Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range per level, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 20% bonus to ECCM and Remote ECCM effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 14900 CPU: 750 Hard points: 7 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 9250 Shield Resistances: 0/50/52.5/35 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6750 Armor Resistances: 50/10/37.5/60 Hull HP: 7250 Velocity: 89m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command I --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Caldari Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Caldari Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery V --> Weapon Upgrade IV Name: Tsunami Hull: Rokh Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Kaalakiota As befits one of the largest weapons manufacturers in the known world, Kaalakiota's ships are very combat focused. Favoring the traditional Caldari combat strategy, they are designed around a substantial number of weapons systems, especially missile launchers. However, they have rather weak armor and structure, relying more on shields for protection. Cladari Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Missile Launcher rate of fire per level, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Siege Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 7 mid / 5 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 13500 CPU: 750 Hard points: 1 Turret/6 Launcher Shield HP: 9250 Shield Resistances: 0/50/52.5/35 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6500 Armor Resistances: 50/10/37.5/60 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 89m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command I --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Caldari Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Caldari Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics IV -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Siege Warfare Link III
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.07 07:00:00 - [601] GALLENTE Name: Athena Hull: Hyperion Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Roden Shipyards Unlike most Gallente ship manufacturers, Roden Shipyards tend to favor missiles over drones and their ships generaly possess stronger armor. Their electronics capacity, however, tends to be weaker than ships from their competitors. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Hybrid Turrets damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Armor Hit Points per level, 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret falloff per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 12.5% bonus to Sensor Booster and Remote Sensor Booster effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 5 mid / 7 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 15650 CPU: 570 Hard points: 8 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 7000 Shield Resistances: 0/50/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8350 Armor Resistances: 50/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8900 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command I --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Gallente Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Gallente Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Targeting V -> Gunnery V --> Weapon Upgrade IV Name: Artemis Hull: Hyperion Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: CreoDron As the largest drone developer and manufacturer in space, CreoDron has a vested interest in drone carriers. While sacrificing relatively little in the way of defensive capability, the Artimus can chew its way through surprisingly strong opponents - provided, of course, that the pilot uses top-of-the-line CreoDron drones. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 10% bonus to drone Hit Points and Damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Armor Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Information Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 14150 CPU: 570 Hard points: 6 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 7000 Shield Resistances: 0/50/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8500 Armor Resistances: 50/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8750 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 175m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 125 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command I --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Gallente Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Gallente Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics IV -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Information Warfare Link III
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.07 07:01:00 - [602] MINMATAR Name: Lahar Hull: Maelstrom Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Boundless Creations Boundless Creation's ships are based on the Brutor tribe's philosophy of warfare: simply fit as much firepower onto your ship as possible. Defense systems and electronics arrays therefore tend to take a back seat to sheer annihilative potential. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Projectile Turret damage per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Signature Radius reduction per level, 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret falloff per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 20% bonus to Target Painter effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 18700 CPU: 610 Hard points: 8 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 7650 Shield Resistances: 15/50/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8100 Armor Resistances: 75/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 94m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command I --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Minmatar Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Minmatar Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV -> Heavy Assault Ship IV --> Assault Ship IV --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V --> Electronics V -> Gunnery V --> Weapon Upgrade IV Name: Halberd Hull: Maelstrom Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Core Complexion Core Complexion's ships are unusual in that they favor electronics and defense over the "lots of guns" approach traditionally favored by the Minmatar. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Signature Radius reduction per level, 3% bonus to Skirmish Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 High / 7 Mid / 5 Low / 2 rig Power Grid: 18100 CPU: 610 Hard points: 4 Turret/3 Launcher Shield HP: 8300 Shield Resistances: 15/50/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 7350 Armor Resistances: 75/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7600 Velocity: 94m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command I --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization IV Secondary Skill Required > Minmatar Battleship V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruiser V --> Spaceship Command III ---> Minmatar Frigate V ---> Spaceship Command I Tertiary Skill Required > Logistics IV -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics V --> Mechanics V --> Engineering V -> Long Range Targeting V --> Skirmish Warfare Link III
Gantor Tesla	Posted - 2008.12.08 02:32:00 - [603] I still think these ships, especially the Caldari fail to be worth what is assuredly a HUGE build cost, and a long amount of training. I would not buy on of these ships if I already had the prereqs. I'd just go fly a CS.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.09 01:52:00 - [604] I'm not entirely happy wit the skill requirements and how they set players up for capital ships, as in they largely don't. Ill set to work on them ans see if i can come up with a better setup.
Noah Cyril	Posted - 2008.12.10 16:57:00 - [605] Originally by: Gantor Tesla I still think these ships, especially the Caldari fail to be worth what is assuredly a HUGE build cost, and a long amount of training. I would not buy on of these ships if I already had the prereqs. I'd just go fly a CS. Is a caldari ship, wat u expect? 8 launchers+ rof bonus??? just be glad is a missile ship that dont look as bad as the raven :p and btw, i think the Bastion should hav a 10% per lvl for optimal range per lvl same as the rokh.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.11 20:46:00 - [606] Right I will look into that. Thanks for pointing it out.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.13 00:10:00 - [607] bump this is the main page for the Flagships, please put opinions here.
Dhejay Centrix Caldari The Wailing Doom	Posted - 2008.12.13 21:32:00 - [608] Spaceship command lvl 5 should be a prereq for the flagships skill tbh. These should be hard to fly and the potential bonuses they would give to any fleet are worth it.
Illithid Caretaker Minmatar Illithid Technologies	Posted - 2008.12.14 07:19:00 - [609] These are a great idea. A lot of work has gone into these ideas and I think that they are worthy of either Dev input or CSM voting. Why has this thread been moved out of the CSM discussion folder? I think that these ships would plug the gap between BS and capitals quite nicely. They should be hard to train for and they are not an "I win" option. Cudo to Balor Haliquin for his hard work on this topic.
Dhejay Centrix Caldari The Wailing Doom	Posted - 2008.12.14 11:49:00 - [610] Bumped because this is a really good idea. It occurs to me that calling one of the Caldari ships "Tsunami" is not in fitting with the naming convention of Caldari ships, it sounds more like a Minmatar name to be honest to fit with Typhoon, Tempest, Maelstrom etc. Having said this, it's a good ship name and I can't think of anything better at the moment.
Gantor Tesla	Posted - 2008.12.14 22:34:00 - [611] Originally by: Balor Haliquin bump this is the main page for the Flagships, please put opinions here. Moving my points from the other thread here. 1. WTH do these ships require frigate V????? 2. I still think the Theater Command need the ability to run a 3rd link. I think this could be off set with a Warfare Link Specialization V requisite. It would also help justify buying a Battleship that costs more than a Carrier. 3. Why do the Caldari get half the drone bay of all the other ships? Even if we get half the bandwidth, 100m3 of bay would be nice. Originally by: Balor Haliquin I'm not entirely happy wit the skill requirements and how they set players up for capital ships, as in they largely don't. Ill set to work on them ans see if i can come up with a better setup. Perhaps a new Skill Suggestion Frontline Command Ship Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Flagship I -> Command Ship IV --> Battlecruiser V --> Spaceship Command IV -> Fleet Command I --> Wing Command V ---> Leadership V -> Warfare Link Specialization V * -> Spaceship Command V ** Secondary Skill Required > Caldari Battleship V Tertiary Skill Required > Command Ship IV > Heavy Assault Ship IV -> Assault Ship IV -> Mechanics V -> Engineering V > Targeting V > Advanced Weapon Upgrades IV -> Weapon Upgrades V * If we went with the current link config, added skill requirement for a Command Processor that should be built into the ship to accommodate for the built in bonus. The reason being, your Frontline Command Ship has its bonus, +1 link ,and the Theater Command Ship has its bonus +2 links. To keep the balance in link number between the roles even, the Theater need to run 3 links + its bonus. Here is why. As it sits currently Field CS (T2 BC) gets 1 link, Fleet CS (T2 BC) gets 3. The way you have it set up, the Frontline gets two and the Theater still only gets 3, thus nerfing it's role. So, in order to account for the extra bonus link being built into both ships, Command Processor style equipment is needed, and thus in my opinion, the skills to use it. These are sure to be the biggest sub capital ships. They need rightly should carry a SC V Requirement. In response to Originally by:** Gantor Tesla If we had to do a Field Com / Fleet Com style, why not: Field: 100% Role Bonus to BS sized weapon, 4 weapons Able to run 3 links 100% Per Flagship lvl to Link effectiveness Fleet: 500% Role Bonus to Cap Transport and ______ Rep Range Able to run 6 links 100% per Flagship lvl to link effectiveness. 20% per Flagship lvl to Cap Trans / Rep amount Originally by: Noah Cyril That is just overpowering 100% Per Flagship lvl to Link effectiveness??, This was a typo, It was meant to read 10%. Sorry I did not see this earlier.
Dhejay Centrix Caldari The Wailing Doom	Posted - 2008.12.15 10:34:00 - [612] Originally by: Gantor Tesla 1. WTH do these ships require frigate V????? Chances are that if you've already trained assault ships then you have frigate 5 in at least one race although I agree that the racial frigate skill at lvl 5 shouldn't be a prerequisite. I can drive a car just fine but don't have a motorcycle license. Originally by: Gantor Tesla 2. I still think the Theater Command need the ability to run a 3rd link. I think this could be off set with a Warfare Link Specialization V requisite. It would also help justify buying a Battleship that costs more than a Carrier. You shouldn't have to use ability to justify retail price, it's all about the build cost. I doubt that will be more than a carrier. Agreed on the 3rd link and warfare link specialization though, these should have all the command abilities of their smaller counterparts. Originally by: Gantor Tesla 3. Why do the Caldari get half the drone bay of all the other ships? Even if we get half the bandwidth, 100m3 of bay would be nice. Because Caldari ships with massive drone bays would become what we don't want, solo OMGWTFPWNBBQ monsters and we don't want to create them.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.15 22:21:00 - [613] The reason that the Theater Command ship does not have the 3rd warfare link on it is because of 2 reasons. First off, someone had pointed out that making the skip a carbon copy as far as command bonuses of the fleet command ship (the Command Ship) would make it a bit obsolete. Put on top of the effect of the fleet bonus from the ships, that would with the 3 warfare links, would give the ship effectively 4 fleet bonus. That would basicly overshadowed the fleet command ship. As for the Frigates requirement, I did all of the requirements and skills needed. So frigates 5 made it on to the list. It is a requirement for Assault Ships, Heavy Assault Ships, and Command Ships. And all of those are required for Flagships. But as i have said I'm not happy with how much time the skilling actually soaks up. I have to remember that the skilling for the ship must also include skilling up gunner/missiles and tanking skills and anything els that a person might want to do. So i will have to reduce the list. Noting also that the other T2 battleships are much less stringent on skill time. Caldari have s small drone bay simply because that is what the race is based around. Small drone bays and great missiles. So it is not going to change.
Dhejay Centrix Caldari The Wailing Doom	Posted - 2008.12.15 23:31:00 - [614] Edited by: Dhejay Centrix on 15/12/2008 23:35:43 Frigate 5 isn't actually required to train the assault ships skill. I don't think adding the 3rd link would make the smaller command ships obsolete, they are considerably cheaper, more mobile and cost less to fit. Command ships also have less skill requirements than these monsters we are proposing. If I was running a large fleet of BS and other ships I'd want a flagship for the bonuses, if I was running a fleet of smaller ships I'd use a command ship. The 3rd link is important or these won't be used for the purpose they were designed for. I can understand your reasoning for not adding it but we could always leave it as an option for CSM/DEV discussion if it comes to that. In answer to another post in this thread, I agree completely that the frontline variant of the Caldari flagship should be the missile boat and the sniper should be the theatre command. Also, 4 fleet bonuses is awesome for all sorts of reasons, the ship would become a primary target in every engagement and so there would have to be considerable effort involved in fielding one since you'd need a few support vessels to ensure it didn't die in the first volly, or you'd be swapping safespots all the time and hoping that the guys you were fighting didn't have uber scanning skills and equipment.
Hettar Caldari C.R.I.M.E	Posted - 2008.12.16 03:21:00 - [615] probbally already been said, but i fly rohks and they dont need any more range on there turrets the damn things can already shoot further than they can lock, 3-5% dmg to L hybrids would be much more kewler
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.16 04:08:00 - [616] Right sorry i keep forgetting that an Assault Ship skill requires Frigates 4 but the ship requires frigates 5. Or some screwed up thing like that. Ill be changing the skill trees soon. And I am going to change the bonus to the Bastion. I, like many others, would rather not have the ship have basicly a duplicate bonus. AS for the extra active warfare link module on the theater command ship. I would like to keep that off and see (if the people at EFT would be so nice) the effects of the ships fleet bonuses before boosting it even more. I can see the arguments for and against. And unfortunately without actual testing I have no way of knowing.
Dhejay Centrix Caldari The Wailing Doom	Posted - 2008.12.16 13:28:00 - [617] The assault ships skill itself has no requirement for a racial frigate skill to be trained but frigate 4 will in fact be a pre-requisite as you need it to train the cruiser and then the battleship skill.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.16 22:11:00 - [618] I have completely redone the skills for the ships. Both ships are now much more oriented in getting pilots into capital ships. Or by the same token for getting capital pilots into the fleet command role. Ill give the amarr example. Frontline Command Ship Primary Skills Required > Amarr Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Amarr Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V --> Warfare Link Specialization IV ---> Leadership V -> Advanced Spaceship Command IV --> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Command Ships IV -> Heavy Assault Ships IV --> Assault Ships IV ---> Engineering V ---> Mechanics V ---> Spaceship Command III -> Advanced Weapons Upgrades V --> Weapon Upgrades V Theater Command Ship Primary Skills Required > Amarr Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Amarr Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V --> Warfare Link Specialization IV ---> Leadership V -> Advanced Spaceship Command V --> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Logistics IV -> Spaceship Command III -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics I -> Long Range Targeting V --> Electronics II -> Drone Interfacing V --> Drones V
Gantor Tesla	Posted - 2008.12.16 23:54:00 - [619] -> Advanced Spaceship Command IV This skill is reserved for capital ships as it subjects them to an additional agility bonus.
Gantor Tesla	Posted - 2008.12.16 23:58:00 - [620] Originally by: Balor Haliquin -> Drone Interfacing V --> Drones V You can not seriously expect me to train these skills for Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 MgBits/sec ??????????????????????????????
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.17 00:18:00 - [621] The reason for those skills is to get people ready for capital ships. I know that some of the required skills seem out of wack but people have complained that the ships seem rather devoid of preparing pilot for the leap into capital ships. Yes Advanced Spaceship Command affords a bonus only to capital ships but their are no ships that currently require less then level 5 for the skill. So putting it in at a lesser level gives you a bit of a stepping stone on your way to capital ships. The drone requirement for the Caldari Theater Command Ship seems strange but think of it this way. I basicly makes you drones twice as effective at doing damage then if you had not trained the skill to 5. It is a required skill for carriers and the Theater comman ship is supposed to be a stepping stone of sorts for that ship. So why not get you most of the way there while training for the ship. And now you have a frighteningly good wave of drones form a Caldari ship.
Dhejay Centrix Caldari The Wailing Doom	Posted - 2008.12.17 13:31:00 - [622] I really don't think you should have a skill requirement for flying the ship that doesn't relate to the needs of the craft itself. I understand that you want something to "bridge the gap" between BS and caps but this is not the way to do it. Unless a ship is a dedicated drone carrier you really shouldn't need drone skills for it.
DeltaPhalanx Caldari Hordes Of Belial	Posted - 2008.12.17 20:45:00 - [623] Edited by: DeltaPhalanx on 17/12/2008 20:48:10 I had originally posted this in your other Flagships thread before it was moved here; I hadn't previously seen this thread. If I express a bit of ignorance please forgive me; being at work and not having time to read through 20+ pages of thread would take more time than my lunch break allows Given that I'm specialising in the Commandships line, I'd approve of this concept. However, being a Caldari wing commander with hybrid gunnery skills, I'm afronted by the suggested roles of the Bastion and Tsunami; I believe you have them reversed. The Tsunami, should, in keeping with the Nighthawk, be the Frontline, and the Bastion, in parity with the Vulture, be the Theater Flagship; tweaking your suggested fittings to represent this change in roles is acceptable. Antimatter out to 62KM before range enhancment modules from 450mm II's, sign me up!
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.12.17 20:54:00 - [624] Originally by: Balor Haliquin Kweel, could you please explain what you mean by bugged? The problem is if it could fit 8 turrets, it can't use warfare modules. some players would use all turrets and the ship would lost his role, making it "only" a new bigbadaboom toy. If you want ppl to use it the role it's gave, you should make untradable for gank or tank caracteristics as it's basically the two primary caracteristics ppl try to optimise when fitting a ship. Else it would be another commandship without err... "caractFre" (DAMN MY ENGLISH SKILLS SUXXXXXXXXXX I can't find the word, both bablefish and googletranslation gives me character but character in french is "personnage" and "caractFre" is ?????) Fetchez la vache !
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.17 21:15:00 - [625] Fair enough, i can see the point when you all say that Advanced Spaceship Command for this ship is rather useless. And that will be droping off the skill tree. I was just trying to make the skill tree a bit more toward the getting people into capital ships line. As for the bonus to the Bastion. Im not sure what els to put in its place. The vast majority of the Caldari rail ships have 2 bonuses to hybred range. And if i was to replace the one bonus with a damage on it would be better then that gallente ships at throwing fire and dealing damage. The Bastion and the Tsunami are reversed because it allows the Tsunami to fit warfare links and a full complement of weapons. I figured that made more sence then an under gunned Bastion and a standard gunned Tsunami that people were left scratching their heads about what to do with the last 2 slots. As for the minmatar ships, they may be allowed to fit 8 guns but I think that due to the restrictive fittings you might only be able to fit 6 or 7 which leaves more then enough room for warfare links. Though a proposal for an alternative is welcome.
Myrkala Minmatar Aurora Acclivitous	Posted - 2008.12.17 21:51:00 - [626] I think the 4/3 turret/launcher hardpoints on the halberd are a bit dull. Would 6/3 be unbalanced, what about 6/2? The maelstrom already had 8/3... I think 6/3 or 6/2 is a better choice, let the ship use the bonuses it gets a bit more. But then again it gets the TP bonus, but that doesn't help much for shooting the CAPs I imagine, fighters drones maybe. Just my thoughts. "Ruppie ain't no puppie."
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.18 05:14:00 - [627] I can do 6/1 for the turrets and missiles for the Halbred. But I want to keep it in the theme of the others. Considering that the other Theater Command ships get a max of 7 missile and turrets combined. Thanks for pointing that out.
DeltaPhalanx Caldari Hordes Of Belial	Posted - 2008.12.18 20:09:00 - [628] Originally by: Balor Haliquin ... The Bastion and the Tsunami are reversed because it allows the Tsunami to fit warfare links and a full complement of weapons. I figured that made more sence then an under gunned Bastion and a standard gunned Tsunami that people were left scratching their heads about what to do with the last 2 slots. I feel that the roles are reversed not based on the suggested fittings, but because of how the vessels would most likely be used. Fitting issues aside, as this proposal can continue to be modified, you would most likely see in practice that the Tsunami would be on the front line, with the Bastion hanging back playing sniper. I base this off of the most likely fittings that both classes would see under PvP; Tsunamis would more often than not, be fitted with Torpedos, using their much higher damage and rate of fire to tear through a designated primary at close range. Whereas you'd likely see the Bastion fitted much like a Rokh currently is; with a full rack of 425mm II's and a hold of Spike L, some Antimatter L, and however many cap boosters the pod pilot can carry. Now, Spike L from Rokh with Caldari BS V can already be thrown to an Optimal of 194KM + 30KM of falloff; and assuming that same pod pilot trains Flagships to IV that optimal becomes 218KM. 218Km is well into sniping range, and its being accomplished with no addtional range enhancements; throwing in even one Tracking Enhancer II pushes that optimal out to 251KM, which is outside of the hardcoded Maximum Targeting range of 250KM. I'd hardly call 220KM, assuming a hostile fleet and friendlies operating within a 30KM sphere of a gate, the front line; yet you'd probably see a Tsunami operating within that same sphere. While both vessels are clearly in the theater, in practice you'd have your Theater Flagship on the front line, and the Frontline sitting out at extreme range.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.18 22:14:00 - [629] Right my fear though is that all the Tsunami would be used for is a sniper platform if it was moved into the Theater Command ship role and no one would ever use it for the position it was designed for. Propose an alternative to the second range bonus. And what is preveting pilots from fitting blasters instead of rails?
Gantor Tesla	Posted - 2008.12.18 23:14:00 - [630] Originally by: Balor Haliquin Yes Advanced Spaceship Command affords a bonus only to capital ships but their are no ships that currently require less then level 5 for the skill. So putting it in at a lesser level gives you a bit of a stepping stone on your way to capital ships. Freighters Require ASC 1. Somehow a Battleship needs 4?
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.19 03:01:00 - [631] Already removing that requirement for the ships.
DeltaPhalanx Caldari Hordes Of Belial	Posted - 2008.12.19 16:58:00 - [632] Edited by: DeltaPhalanx on 19/12/2008 16:58:31 Originally by: Balor Haliquin Right my fear though is that all the Tsunami would be used for is a sniper platform if it was moved into the Theater Command ship role and no one would ever use it for the position it was designed for. Propose an alternative to the second range bonus. And what is preveting pilots from fitting blasters instead of rails? I think you have somewhat misunderstood my suggestion; I haven't suggested flipping the fitting suggestions around, just flipping the role, with minor tweaks to the fittings. Keep the Tsunami as a missile boat and the Bastion a hybrid platform, but change their respective designations with alterations to your suggested role bonuses to reflect the change. Thus you would have the Tsunami retaining its launcher hardpoints and trading the multiple ganglink bonus for the ECCM / RECCM bonus, and the Bastion would likewise lose the ECCM / RECCM bonus but gain the ability to concurrently run two ganglinks. With this in mind you could withdraw the second range bonus on the Bastion in favour of the Flagship bonus to ganglinks, and add a second missile bonus to the Tsunami, perhaps a Kinetic missile damage bonus as is found on the Drake or the Nighthawk. As to what prevents Caldari pilots from mounting blasters it's quite simple, Caldari boats have neither speed nor agility. In quoting the words I've read in several bios "Caldari Pilot: 'I don't need a fast ship, I can kill you from here.'" Amarr pilots such as yourself cover the middle ground, Gallente and Minmatar cover the short, and Caldari, well, we like to shoot you from somewhere that you can't touch us; granted we may only be scrating your paint, but you've got a long slow crawl to reach us
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.19 19:58:00 - [633] Fair enough, ill switch the setups and see what they look like.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.21 22:18:00 - [634] AMARR Name: Requiem Hull: Abaddon Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Carthum Conglomerate Carthum ships are the very embodiment of the Amarrian warfare philosophy. Possessing sturdy armor and advanced weapons systems, they provide a nice mix of offense and defense. On the other hand, their electronics and shield systems tend to be rather limited. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Energy Turret damage per level, 5% bonus armor Resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Capacitor Recharge Rate per level, 5% bonus to Large Energy Turret capacitor cost per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 20% bonus to Tracking Link and Tracking Computer effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 4 mid / 8 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 20700 CPU: 530 Hard points: 8 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 6850 Shield Resistances: 0/65/52.5/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 9000 Armor Resistances: 50/35/37.5/35 Hull HP: 8000 Velocity: 89m/s Drone Bay: 75m^3s Drone Bandwidth: 75 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6375 Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 80km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Radar 22 Signature Radius: 480m Scanner Resolution: 85 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Fusion 8 Required Skills Primary Skills Required > Amarr Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Amarr Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V --> Warfare Link Specialization IV ---> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Command Ships IV -> Heavy Assault Ships IV --> Assault Ships IV ---> Engineering V ---> Mechanics V ---> Spaceship Command III -> Advanced Weapons Upgrades V --> Weapon Upgrades V Name: Vanquisher Hull: Abaddon Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Khanid Innovations In addition to robust electronics systems, the Khanid Kingdom's ships possess advanced armor alloys capable of withstanding a great deal of punishment. Generally eschewing the use of turrets, they tend to gear their vessels more towards close-range missile combat. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Torpedo explosion velocity per level, 5% bonus to armor Resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Capacitor Recharge Rate per level, 3% bonus to effectiveness of Armored Warfare Links module per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 5 mid / 7 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 19500 CPU: 530 Hard points: 1 Turret/6 Launcher Shield HP: 7350 Shield Resistances: 0/65/52.5/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8400 Armor Resistances: 50/35/37.5/35 Hull HP: 8000 Velocity: 89m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3s Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6375 Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 80km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Radar 22 Signature Radius: 480m Scanner Resolution: 85 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Fusion 8 Required Skills Primary Skills Required > Amarr Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Amarr Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V --> Warfare Link Specialization IV ---> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Logistics IV -> Spaceship Command III -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics I -> Long Range Targeting V --> Electronics II -> Drone Interfacing V --> Drones V
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.21 22:20:00 - [635] CALDARI Name: Tsunami Hull: Rokh Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Kaalakiota As befits one of the largest weapons manufacturers in the known world, Kaalakiota's ships are very combat focused. Favoring the traditional Caldari combat strategy, they are designed around a substantial number of weapons systems, especially missile launchers. However, they have rather weak armor and structure, relying more on shields for protection. Cladari Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Missile Launcher rate of fire per level, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Points per level, 5% bonus to Kinetic Missile damage per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 20% bonus to ECCM and Remote ECCM effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 7 mid / 5 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 13500 CPU: 750 Hard points: 0 Turret/7 Launcher Shield HP: 9250 Shield Resistances: 0/50/52.5/35 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6500 Armor Resistances: 50/10/37.5/60 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 89m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Caldari Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Caldari Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V --> Warfare Link Specialization IV ---> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Command Ships IV -> Heavy Assault Ships IV --> Assault Ships IV ---> Engineering V ---> Mechanics V ---> Spaceship Command III -> Advanced Weapons Upgrades V --> Weapon Upgrades V Name: Bastion Hull: Rohk Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Ishukone Most of the recent designs off their assembly line have provided for a combination that the Ishukone name is becoming known for great long-range capabilities and shield systems unmatched anywhere else. Caldari Battleship Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range per level, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Siege Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 14900 CPU: 750 Hard points: 7 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 9250 Shield Resistances: 0/50/52.5/35 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6750 Armor Resistances: 50/10/37.5/60 Hull HP: 7250 Velocity: 89m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Required Skills Primary Skills Required > Caldari Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Caldari Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V --> Warfare Link Specialization IV ---> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Logistics IV -> Spaceship Command III -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics I -> Long Range Targeting V --> Electronics II -> Drone Interfacing V --> Drones V
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.21 22:21:00 - [636] GALLENTE Name: Athena Hull: Hyperion Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Roden Shipyards Unlike most Gallente ship manufacturers, Roden Shipyards tends to favor missiles over drones and their ships are generally faster than other Gallente ships in their class. They generally have a substantial amount of hull modification options but limited electronic systems. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Hybrid Turrets damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Armor Hit Points per level, 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret falloff per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 12.5% bonus to Sensor Booster and Remote Sensor Booster effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 5 mid / 7 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 15650 CPU: 570 Hard points: 8 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 7000 Shield Resistances: 0/50/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8350 Armor Resistances: 50/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8900 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Required Skills Primary Skills Required > Gallente Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Gallente Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V --> Warfare Link Specialization IV ---> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Command Ships IV -> Heavy Assault Ships IV --> Assault Ships IV ---> Engineering V ---> Mechanics V ---> Spaceship Command III -> Advanced Weapons Upgrades V --> Weapon Upgrades V Name: Artemis Hull: Hyperion Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: CreoDron As the largest drone developer and manufacturer in space, CreoDron has a vested interest in drone carriers. While sacrificing relatively little in the way of defensive capability, the Artimus can chew its way through surprisingly strong opponents - provided, of course, that the pilot uses top-of-the-line CreoDron drones. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 10% bonus to drone Hit Points and Damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Armor Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Information Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 14150 CPU: 570 Hard points: 6 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 7000 Shield Resistances: 0/50/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8500 Armor Resistances: 50/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8750 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 175m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 125 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Required Skills Primary Skills Required > Gallente Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Gallente Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V --> Warfare Link Specialization IV ---> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Logistics IV -> Spaceship Command III -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics I -> Long Range Targeting V --> Electronics II -> Drone Interfacing V --> Drones V
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.21 22:23:00 - [637] MINMATAR Name: Lahar Hull: Maelstrom Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Boundless Creations Boundless Creation's ships are based on the Brutor tribe's philosophy of warfare: simply fit as much firepower onto your ship as possible. Defense systems and electronics arrays therefore tend to take a back seat to sheer annihilative potential. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Projectile Turret damage per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Signature Radius reduction per level, 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret falloff per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 20% bonus to Target Painter effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 18700 CPU: 610 Hard points: 8 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 7650 Shield Resistances: 15/50/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8100 Armor Resistances: 75/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 94m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Required Skills Primary Skills Required > Minmatar Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Minmatar Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V --> Warfare Link Specialization IV ---> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Command Ships IV -> Heavy Assault Ships IV --> Assault Ships IV ---> Engineering V ---> Mechanics V ---> Spaceship Command III -> Advanced Weapons Upgrades V --> Weapon Upgrades V Name: Halberd Hull: Maelstrom Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Core Complexion Core Complexion's ships are unusual in that they favor electronics and defense over the "lots of guns" approach traditionally favored by the Minmatar. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Signature Radius reduction per level, 3% bonus to Skirmish Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 High / 7 Mid / 5 Low / 2 rig Power Grid: 18100 CPU: 610 Hard points: 6 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 8300 Shield Resistances: 15/50/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 7350 Armor Resistances: 75/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7600 Velocity: 94m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Required Skills Primary Skills Required > Minmatar Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Minmatar Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V --> Warfare Link Specialization IV ---> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Logistics IV -> Spaceship Command III -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics I -> Long Range Targeting V --> Electronics II -> Drone Interfacing V --> Drones V
Dhejay Centrix Caldari The Wailing Doom	Posted - 2008.12.21 22:36:00 - [638] These are good but I still don't like the idea of a ship that isn't a dedicated drone carrier requiring drone skills to fly.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.21 23:36:00 - [639] I can understand that position. But I want to keep the requirements uniform.
Dhejay Centrix Caldari The Wailing Doom	Posted - 2008.12.22 21:49:00 - [640] Originally by: Balor Haliquin I can understand that position. But I want to keep the requirements uniform. So why not gunnery 5 and missile launcher operation 5 as well?
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.23 01:59:00 - [641] I'm not sure what you mean by that.
Gantor Tesla	Posted - 2008.12.23 03:46:00 - [642] Originally by: Balor Haliquin I'm not sure what you mean by that. You can't make someone train a specific set of a specific type of weapon for a ship that does not use those. If you want a weapon requisite, it needs to be for the SHIP not the class. The class is Generic between races, while ship weapon types are obviously not. Bottom line. Either drop the weapon requisites all together or make the drone ships require drones, missile ships missiles etc...
keepiru Supernova Security Systems	Posted - 2008.12.23 10:38:00 - [643] If you're gonna give the Lahar a falloff bonus, it has to be fast enough to actually use autocannons. Either give it a speed similar or greater to the Athena, or give it a tracking bonus, because if you keep it that slow no sane pilot would actually fit autos to it. And I'll bet you most blaster-bs pilots would prefer a tracking bonus on the Athena rather than a falloff too. Blasters have crap falloff, and I can't think many people would fit the kind of do-or-die neutron setup that can actually take advantage of it on a 750m+ t2 bs. The thron already outdamages the hyperion in all non-ideal (read: actual) combat situation, thanks to tracking; a falloff bonus after lowering base damage is adding insult to injury. Lets be honest here: unless you have greatly superior falloff range and speed like a vaga does compared to a deimos, falloff bonuses are crap. ... and I really think they should boost T2 plate HP.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.23 22:56:00 - [644] Okay so i looked over the ship and looked over the Nighthawk and the Golem. They both require Gunnery II to fly. That being the prerequisite for the Weapons Upgrade and the Advanced weapons upgrade. Its no so much a bonus to guns. Both the Golem and the Nighthawk are missile boats and they both require the skill gunnery. Simply put its so you can get to weapon upgrades and adv weapon upgrades. Those skills give a bonus to all weapons systems. So your missiles will be much easier to fit. So other then that I'm not sure what gunnery bonuses you are looking at. Im not very good at understanding the concepts behind the minmatar design conventions, as in how they are generaly made and given bonuses. The falloff was the base bonus the command ships so i figured it would be a simple transplant. What are the general bonuses you would see on a ship like the Lahar?
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2008.12.25 00:29:00 - [645] So far the ships seemed very well prenerfed to prevent overpowering any plans to show potential boosts if they become nessecary? Pre Order your Sisters of Eve ship today!!!
Dyaven The Tuskers	Posted - 2008.12.25 01:11:00 - [646] Just noticed a little quirk in the Gallente ships, the CreoDron ship gets a Launcher point but the Roden Shipyards doesn't. Seems off to me.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.25 02:59:00 - [647] Yah that has been pointed out but which would you rather have, a Hyperion with a full complement of turrets or one with 7 turrets and a missile launcher and one with 7 turrets and no missile launcher?
Gantor Tesla	Posted - 2008.12.25 06:39:00 - [648] Originally by: Balor Haliquin Okay so i looked over the ship and looked over the Nighthawk and the Golem. They both require Gunnery II to fly. That being the prerequisite for the Weapons Upgrade and the Advanced weapons upgrade. Its no so much a bonus to guns. Both the Golem and the Nighthawk are missile boats and they both require the skill gunnery. Simply put its so you can get to weapon upgrades and adv weapon upgrades. Those skills give a bonus to all weapons systems. So your missiles will be much easier to fit. So other then that I'm not sure what gunnery bonuses you are looking at. You can NOT compare 2 hours of skill training for Gunnery II to 35 DAYS of training to get Drone interfacing V.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.25 15:55:00 - [649] I am not, I am comparing 2 hours for Gunnery, 9 days for Weapons Upgrade V, 33 Days for Advanced Weapons Upgrade V. Verses 5 Days for Drones V, and 35 days for Drone Interfacing V. so its 42 Days verses 20 Days. Depending on where you have your attributes set for skilling, these numbers can change drasticly. But i am asuming that all your skills are about even. I again fail to see what the problem is.
Gantor Tesla	Posted - 2008.12.25 16:50:00 - [650] Originally by: Balor Haliquin I am not, I am comparing 2 hours for Gunnery, 9 days for Weapons Upgrade V, 33 Days for Advanced Weapons Upgrade V. Verses 5 Days for Drones V, and 35 days for Drone Interfacing V. so its 42 Days verses 20 Days. Depending on where you have your attributes set for skilling, these numbers can change drasticly. But i am asuming that all your skills are about even. I again fail to see what the problem is. Because Drone Interfacing V is almost worthless to the Caldari Ship. It gives a huge bonus to the Gallente. It's unbalanced.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.25 19:25:00 - [651] So if this is the case then why is it required for Caldari Carriers and Mother Ships? The Theater Command Ships are set up in such a way as to push you toward carriers. And the idea of changing one skill set on specific ship is completely unheard of in EVE. Changing that skill set means that all the other pilots that trained for the other versions of the class could fly evry other version as soon as they get the racial battleship skill to 5, except the Caldari Theater Command Ship. And likewise, anyone who skilled only for the Caldari Theater Command Ship will not be able to fly any of the other theater command ships until he/she skills up Drones V and Drone Interfacing V. What I'm saying is that it makes little sence to change the skill set with the evidence you have given me. You have a 50m^3 drone bay and that is more then enough to throw a full wing of medium combat drones or a full wing of medium shield rep drones. And most other ships in the class use drones as suplimetary damage. Only the Gallente drone boat is using them for its primary damage source. And even then the Caldari ship can easily out range and out gun 5 drones.
Gantor Tesla	Posted - 2008.12.25 19:47:00 - [652] Edited by: Gantor Tesla on 25/12/2008 19:47:56 Originally by: Balor Haliquin So if this is the case then why is it required for Caldari Carriers and Mother Ships? BECAUSE THOSE ARE DRONE BOATS. Originally by: Balor Haliquin The Theater Command Ships are set up in such a way as to push you toward carriers. If this were true they would all have the Dominix's drone bay and drone bonuses. The Theater SKILLS set you up for carrier, but the SHIP does not. Originally by: Balor Haliquin And the idea of changing one skill set on specific ship is completely unheard of in EVE. Changing that skill set means that all the other pilots that trained for the other versions of the class could fly evry other version as soon as they get the racial battleship skill to 5, except the Caldari Theater Command Ship. And likewise, anyone who skilled only for the Caldari Theater Command Ship will not be able to fly any of the other theater command ships until he/she skills up Drones V and Drone Interfacing V. You're missing the point. I want you to remove it from ALL the ships. NOT just the Caldari. Originally by: Balor Haliquin What I'm saying is that it makes little sence to change the skill set with the evidence you have given me. You have a 50m^3 drone bay and that is more then enough to throw a full wing of medium combat drones or a full wing of medium shield rep drones. And is it not worth 35 days of training fro 5 med drones which do 120 dps ish and with NO back up drones on you. Originally by: Balor Haliquin And most other ships in the class use drones as suplimetary damage. Only the Gallente drone boat is using them for its primary damage source. And even then the Caldari ship can easily out range and out gun 5 drones. Which is my point. The Gallente Ship benefits FAR more from this skill requirement than any other race. Other than "preparing us for Carriers" there is NO reason for this skill. I'd rather see a Nav V and Warp drive op V requirement, as those set you up for all caps, but that doesn't make much sense as a requirement either.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.25 20:15:00 - [653] Okay now that i have an idea of what you are getting at. The idea with the Theater command ship is that it is a step toward the carrier. Do you have any good ideas on how to do this. The issue being is that the Theater Command ships are right now taking a little less time to train for then the Frontline Command Ships. But the skills can not be just some arbitrary things, i would like them to move the character toward carriers.
Gantor Tesla	Posted - 2008.12.25 21:25:00 - [654] Edited by: Gantor Tesla on 25/12/2008 21:25:52 Originally by: Balor Haliquin Okay now that i have an idea of what you are getting at. The idea with the Theater command ship is that it is a step toward the carrier. Do you have any good ideas on how to do this. The issue being is that the Theater Command ships are right now taking a little less time to train for then the Frontline Command Ships. But the skills can not be just some arbitrary things, i would like them to move the character toward carriers. Well I'd do it like this. I'll only include what I would change and I'd do this to all the Theater CS. Caldari Battleship Bonus: 10% bonus to Drone Hit Points and Damage range per level, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Siege Warfare Link module effectiveness per level, 50% bonus to Large Energy and Shield transfer range per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 3 warfare link modules simultaneously, 100% bonus to Drone control range Fitting slots: 4 high / 8 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Hard points: 0 Turret / 0 Launcher Drone Bay: 500m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 125 MgBits/sec
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.25 21:42:00 - [655] Uhm, no. There is no presidence for this kind of ship for the Caldari. I was asking more for a set of skills that would prevent what you pointed out as being somewhat useless skills. Not to mention that you are turning the ship into a command and logostics ship. Which for a capital ship is fine but not for sub capitals.
ollobrains2 Gallente New Eve Order Holdings	Posted - 2008.12.25 23:02:00 - [656] for sub capitals substantial penalties should apply
Gantor Tesla	Posted - 2008.12.25 23:13:00 - [657] Originally by: Balor Haliquin Uhm, no. There is no presidence for this kind of ship for the Caldari. I was asking more for a set of skills that would prevent what you pointed out as being somewhat useless skills. Not to mention that you are turning the ship into a command and logostics ship. Which for a capital ship is fine but not for sub capitals. No precedence? Those stats are all derived from the Chimera. Look it up. Do you even fly cap ships? You seem to not know a lot about them. You have this idea in your head of what you want these ships to be and you're being very rigid about it. I'm not going to discuss this any further as you're being too closed mined about this. In the end, it's CCP that gets the final word, so you can make as many posts as you want, but CCP is going to decide, not you.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.26 00:41:00 - [658] As I said there is no presidence I meant for sub capital ships. Taking the bonuses from the carrier and putting them onto a sub capital ship does not make a good ship. The issue you have with sub capital ships is that you have a very limited fitting and module space to do what you want. With capitals, especially carriers, you have a lot more freedom. These ships are designed and have been focused on the command and control area of the fleet. They are not logistics ships, they are not super combat ships, they are not super high end electronics warfare ships. They are simply command and control ships. I put the added concept of using their skill tree to get very close to the skills needed for capital ships, specificaly dreads and carriers. If CCP decides to take the designs or not is completely up to CCP. I agree with that. But if there was no hope of getting ideas into a game then why bother having a features and ideas section to the forums to begin with? I happen to think that the idea is a good one and a sound concept. So do a lot of other people who have put in their ideas and concepts for the ships. Im trying to get what you are talking about when it comes to your concept and trying to relate my concept to you. I'm sorry if the ideas and concepts used to make the ships what they are now do not work with what you feel the ships should be. But ill be honest you had me thinking that your complaint was about caldari ships alone and you wanted only that group changed to fit a caldari only setup. And that is something i could not see happening. So is you issue with the Theater Command Ship's skill requirements or with how the Theater Command ships are set up as far as stats and bonuses?
Gantor Tesla	Posted - 2008.12.26 02:19:00 - [659] Originally by: Balor Haliquin As I said there is no presidence I meant for sub capital ships. Taking the bonuses from the carrier and putting them onto a sub capital ship does not make a good ship. The issue you have with sub capital ships is that you have a very limited fitting and module space to do what you want. With capitals, especially carriers, you have a lot more freedom. These ships are designed and have been focused on the command and control area of the fleet. They are not logistics ships, they are not super combat ships, they are not super high end electronics warfare ships. They are simply command and control ships. I put the added concept of using their skill tree to get very close to the skills needed for capital ships, specificaly dreads and carriers. If CCP decides to take the designs or not is completely up to CCP. I agree with that. But if there was no hope of getting ideas into a game then why bother having a features and ideas section to the forums to begin with? I happen to think that the idea is a good one and a sound concept. So do a lot of other people who have put in their ideas and concepts for the ships. Im trying to get what you are talking about when it comes to your concept and trying to relate my concept to you. I'm sorry if the ideas and concepts used to make the ships what they are now do not work with what you feel the ships should be. But ill be honest you had me thinking that your complaint was about caldari ships alone and you wanted only that group changed to fit a caldari only setup. And that is something i could not see happening. So is you issue with the Theater Command Ship's skill requirements or with how the Theater Command ships are set up as far as stats and bonuses? Sorry I think I may have been a bit brash, but I'm a bit drunk from the holiday. My problem is I do not think the skill requirements suit the ship. I'm fine with a sub capital that sets a char up for carriers, but as carriers are logistics ships and drone boats. Having a ship that sets you up for carriers, but focuses on rails and has no real focus on drones simply doesn't make sense to me. I don't see why we need a precedent to make a ship. Was there a precedent for the Titan? Besides, I simply took the drone bonus from the Gallente TCS and gave it to them. The drone bay is the Dominix +125m3. So you have a set up which will let you bring 4 sets of heavy drones, which would let you really bring a huge variety of drones to the battle field. If you think the double drone range is over powered, you don't know how slow HVY drones are. Yes meds and lights are faster, but this would drastically lower the ships DPS. Carriers use Capital sized remote reps which require ____ rep 5. T2 large ones require ____ rep 4, so getting pilots into this is also good. They also use logistics modules, which require logistics 5. they have a low number of high slots and lots of tank slots, and they would be forced to chose gang links or reps, much the same way carriers must decide between links, reps, and drone control units. The suggestion that I gave is a lot more like a carrier than the ship you suggest. The ship you suggest is a fine replacement for the Vulture, but it is no way preparation for a carrier with the exception of the Gallente TCS.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.26 03:37:00 - [660] Ahhhhhokay i see what you are saying. I would much rather the ships be evolutions of command ships then direct replacements for capital ships. The Theater Command Ship is supposed to be the evolution of the Fleet Command Ship. Thats why it is set up the way it is. Most of the ships i took some creative liberty to make them evolutions and not pure upgrades. Thats why you see differences in bonuses and ship stats. If the drone requirements for the Theater Command Ship are not good, and see now what you mean, what do you suggest for skill requirements. I want the skills to kick players in the general direction of carriers for the Theater Command Ships and the general direction of Dreadnoughts for the Frontline Command Ship. But the more important thing is for them to be evolutions of command ships and not purely mini capital ships. ((BTW, drunk increases all skills by 300% but reduces perception by 1,000%. Happy holidays))
Dhejay Centrix Caldari The Wailing Doom	Posted - 2008.12.26 09:39:00 - [661] I like the idea of a ship that is another step between sub-cap and capital but you shouldn't design the skill requirements specifically for that. The skills required for the ship should be relevant to what is needed to fly it not the next class of ship. I like the idea of flagships, please don't let them get bogged down by trying to make them an artificial bridge between ship classes. Personally, I didn't find a gap between BS and capitals. I made sure I trained all the relevant skills for flying my BS up to lvl 5 for it to be as effective as possible and after that it was just a matter of training adv spaceship command and the dread/carrier/jumpdrive skills. Don't forget that you're supposed to max out skills in a relevant ship to make it effective and that in itself serves to ease the transition.
DeltaPhalanx Caldari Hordes Of Belial	Posted - 2008.12.29 02:07:00 - [662] Balor, a suggestion in place of the Drone Interfacing V requirement; Command Ships V (or perhaps IV). It would seem to be a logical requirement given the roles and function of the Theater Flagship, and would serve as a proper stepping stone; someone looking at flagships should gain at least some experience with operating the equivalent Commandship The role bonuses for the Bastion and Tsunami now make much more sense from the Caldari perspective; thank you
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.29 02:43:00 - [663] No problem man. Okay but the issue still is that the Drone and Drone Interfacing bonuses have to go. So I'm thinking Targeting V and other such electronic skills. I'm not sure where to go so suggestions are welcome.
Dhejay Centrix Caldari The Wailing Doom	Posted - 2009.01.01 10:27:00 - [664] Originally by: Balor Haliquin ... I'm thinking Targeting V and other such electronic skills. I'm not sure where to go so suggestions are welcome. This is a good idea. Having targeting as a prereq is a good plan, how about multitasking as well?
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.02 02:05:00 - [665] I see no reason as to why it should not be allowed save one. The ships cant lock the numbers that would make multitasking useful. The answere might be as simple as upping that Theater Command Ship lock number. But thats a simple fix.
Dhejay Centrix Caldari The Wailing Doom	Posted - 2009.01.03 07:57:00 - [666] Originally by: Balor Haliquin I see no reason as to why it should not be allowed save one. The ships cant lock the numbers that would make multitasking useful. The answere might be as simple as upping that Theater Command Ship lock number. But thats a simple fix. It would be correct for a ship of this type to be able to lock a load of targets and this can be your "rp reason" for requiring the skill if you feel you need one. Having a large number of targets lockable would be a really good reason for people to fly these ships in their intended role.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.05 18:41:00 - [667] Well having a ship that can lock six and requiring a skill that allows you to lock 7 at level 1 seems a little starnge to me. Besides i can hear the populous pointing out the flaw now. It should add some uniqueness to the two classes. One can lock 6 (Frontline) while the other can lock 7 (Theater). So the new skill requirements for the Theater command ship will look like this then. (Example is for an Amarr ship) Primary Skills Required > Amarr Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Amarr Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V --> Warfare Link Specialization IV ---> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Logistics IV -> Spaceship Command III -> Signature Analysis V > Multitasking I -> Targeting V --> Electronics I -> Long Range Targeting V --> Electronics II > Electronics V
procurement specialist	Posted - 2009.01.05 20:01:00 - [668] why fleet commander? i would think wing command 4 would be good enough. this would make capitals still the fleet leader ship. i also think spaceship command V is required. I would require drone interfacing 4 though.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.05 20:20:00 - [669] Spaceship command is already a requirement, its under the secondary skills. There was a huge debate about the requirements for Drone Interfacing and drones as a requirement at all. Simply put, most of the ships do not need that kind of skill so it seems out of place to require it. And the reason for Fleet Commander, it was an attempted to force people into the fleet commander position. It seems apropriate for the ships concept.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.12 21:09:00 - [670] Edited by: Balor Haliquin on 12/01/2009 21:11:00 AMARR Name: Requiem Hull: Abaddon Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Carthum Conglomerate Carthum ships are the very embodiment of the Amarrian warfare philosophy. Possessing sturdy armor and advanced weapons systems, they provide a nice mix of offense and defense. On the other hand, their electronics and shield systems tend to be rather limited. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Energy Turret damage per level, 5% bonus armor Resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Capacitor Recharge Rate per level, 5% bonus to Large Energy Turret capacitor cost per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 20% bonus to Tracking Link and Tracking Computer effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 4 mid / 8 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 20700 CPU: 530 Hard points: 8 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 6850 Shield Resistances: 0/65/52.5/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 9000 Armor Resistances: 50/35/37.5/35 Hull HP: 8000 Velocity: 89m/s Drone Bay: 75m^3s Drone Bandwidth: 75 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6375 Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 80km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Radar 22 Signature Radius: 480m Scanner Resolution: 85 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Fusion 8 Required Skills Primary Skills Required > Amarr Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Amarr Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V --> Warfare Link Specialization IV ---> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Command Ships IV -> Heavy Assault Ships IV --> Assault Ships IV ---> Engineering V ---> Mechanics V ---> Spaceship Command III -> Advanced Weapons Upgrades V --> Weapon Upgrades V Name: Vanquisher Hull: Abaddon Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Khanid Innovations In addition to robust electronics systems, the Khanid Kingdom's ships possess advanced armor alloys capable of withstanding a great deal of punishment. Generally eschewing the use of turrets, they tend to gear their vessels more towards close-range missile combat. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Torpedo explosion velocity per level, 5% bonus to armor Resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Capacitor Recharge Rate per level, 3% bonus to effectiveness of Armored Warfare Links module per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 5 mid / 7 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 19500 CPU: 530 Hard points: 1 Turret/6 Launcher Shield HP: 7350 Shield Resistances: 0/65/52.5/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8400 Armor Resistances: 50/35/37.5/35 Hull HP: 8000 Velocity: 89m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3s Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6375 Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 80km Maximum Lock: 8 Sensor Strength: Radar 22 Signature Radius: 480m Scanner Resolution: 85 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Fusion 8 Required Skills Primary Skills Required > Amarr Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Amarr Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V --> Warfare Link Specialization IV ---> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Logistics IV -> Spaceship Command III -> Signature Analysis V > Multitasking I -> Targeting V --> Electronics I -> Long Range Targeting V --> Electronics II > Electronics V
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.12 21:10:00 - [671] CALDARI Name: Tsunami Hull: Rokh Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Kaalakiota As befits one of the largest weapons manufacturers in the known world, Kaalakiota's ships are very combat focused. Favoring the traditional Caldari combat strategy, they are designed around a substantial number of weapons systems, especially missile launchers. However, they have rather weak armor and structure, relying more on shields for protection. Cladari Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Missile Launcher rate of fire per level, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Points per level, 5% bonus to Kinetic Missile damage per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 20% bonus to ECCM and Remote ECCM effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 7 mid / 5 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 13500 CPU: 750 Hard points: 0 Turret/7 Launcher Shield HP: 9250 Shield Resistances: 0/50/52.5/35 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6500 Armor Resistances: 50/10/37.5/60 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 89m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Caldari Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Caldari Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V --> Warfare Link Specialization IV ---> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Command Ships IV -> Heavy Assault Ships IV --> Assault Ships IV ---> Engineering V ---> Mechanics V ---> Spaceship Command III -> Advanced Weapons Upgrades V --> Weapon Upgrades V Name: Bastion Hull: Rohk Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Ishukone Most of the recent designs off their assembly line have provided for a combination that the Ishukone name is becoming known for great long-range capabilities and shield systems unmatched anywhere else. Caldari Battleship Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range per level, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Siege Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 14900 CPU: 750 Hard points: 7 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 9250 Shield Resistances: 0/50/52.5/35 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6750 Armor Resistances: 50/10/37.5/60 Hull HP: 7250 Velocity: 89m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 8 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Required Skills Primary Skills Required > Caldari Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Caldari Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V --> Warfare Link Specialization IV ---> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Logistics IV -> Spaceship Command III -> Signature Analysis V > Multitasking I -> Targeting V --> Electronics I -> Long Range Targeting V --> Electronics II > Electronics V
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.12 21:12:00 - [672] GALLENTE Name: Athena Hull: Hyperion Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Roden Shipyards Unlike most Gallente ship manufacturers, Roden Shipyards tends to favor missiles over drones and their ships are generally faster than other Gallente ships in their class. They generally have a substantial amount of hull modification options but limited electronic systems. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Hybrid Turrets damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Armor Hit Points per level, 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret falloff per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 12.5% bonus to Sensor Booster and Remote Sensor Booster effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 5 mid / 7 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 15650 CPU: 570 Hard points: 8 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 7000 Shield Resistances: 0/50/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8350 Armor Resistances: 50/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8900 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Required Skills Primary Skills Required > Gallente Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Gallente Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V --> Warfare Link Specialization IV ---> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Command Ships IV -> Heavy Assault Ships IV --> Assault Ships IV ---> Engineering V ---> Mechanics V ---> Spaceship Command III -> Advanced Weapons Upgrades V --> Weapon Upgrades V Name: Artemis Hull: Hyperion Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: CreoDron As the largest drone developer and manufacturer in space, CreoDron has a vested interest in drone carriers. While sacrificing relatively little in the way of defensive capability, the Artimus can chew its way through surprisingly strong opponents - provided, of course, that the pilot uses top-of-the-line CreoDron drones. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 10% bonus to drone Hit Points and Damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Armor Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Information Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 14150 CPU: 570 Hard points: 6 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 7000 Shield Resistances: 0/50/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8500 Armor Resistances: 50/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8750 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 175m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 125 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 8 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Required Skills Primary Skills Required > Gallente Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Gallente Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V --> Warfare Link Specialization IV ---> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Logistics IV -> Spaceship Command III -> Signature Analysis V > Multitasking I -> Targeting V --> Electronics I -> Long Range Targeting V --> Electronics II > Electronics V
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.12 21:13:00 - [673] MINMATAR Name: Lahar Hull: Maelstrom Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Boundless Creations Boundless Creation's ships are based on the Brutor tribe's philosophy of warfare: simply fit as much firepower onto your ship as possible. Defense systems and electronics arrays therefore tend to take a back seat to sheer annihilative potential. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Projectile Turret damage per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Signature Radius reduction per level, 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret falloff per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 20% bonus to Target Painter effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 18700 CPU: 610 Hard points: 8 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 7650 Shield Resistances: 15/50/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8100 Armor Resistances: 75/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 94m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Required Skills Primary Skills Required > Minmatar Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Minmatar Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V --> Warfare Link Specialization IV ---> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Command Ships IV -> Heavy Assault Ships IV --> Assault Ships IV ---> Engineering V ---> Mechanics V ---> Spaceship Command III -> Advanced Weapons Upgrades V --> Weapon Upgrades V Name: Halberd Hull: Maelstrom Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Core Complexion Core Complexion's ships are unusual in that they favor electronics and defense over the "lots of guns" approach traditionally favored by the Minmatar. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Signature Radius reduction per level, 3% bonus to Skirmish Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 High / 7 Mid / 5 Low / 2 rig Power Grid: 18100 CPU: 610 Hard points: 6 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 8300 Shield Resistances: 15/50/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 7350 Armor Resistances: 75/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7600 Velocity: 94m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 8 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Required Skills Primary Skills Required > Minmatar Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Minmatar Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V --> Warfare Link Specialization IV ---> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Logistics IV -> Spaceship Command III -> Signature Analysis V > Multitasking I -> Targeting V --> Electronics I -> Long Range Targeting V --> Electronics II > Electronics V
swisher Caldari Mentis Fidelis Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2009.01.12 22:06:00 - [674] /sign, often I wanted an additional sub-capital, although couldn't think of a name. flagship works, although I didn't hit the t3 command ships marker straight on. just a thought though, "Armed with a bonus to anti-electronic warfare, they can assist other ships in making sure that the damage reaches the target." give them sensor strength out the wazoo, perhaps make a module that disables electronic warfare modules either targeted or area affect. Perhaps give built-in fleet bonuses to tracking, signature radius, or capacitor, to counteract electronic warfare. Above all, how can you tell if this is part of my post, or my signature? Give my missiles their splash damage! \o/
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.12 23:46:00 - [675] I have thought about doing something like that for the fleet bonuses to differentiate the two classes, but the issue is that the current bonuses can help all ships, the resolution bonuses and such would either be overpowered or not diverse enough. Ill see what i can do, thanks for the idea.
lech lizdian	Posted - 2009.01.17 05:15:00 - [676] ok sign me up for a petition to get these ships in game as soon as possilbe...
nickmeister89	Posted - 2009.01.21 08:25:00 - [677] hey balor, i like the idea of having fleet command ships. i do believe those ships will do wonders in orginazation in fleet type battles.
Anh Nguyen	Posted - 2009.01.21 08:58:00 - [678] I though that flag ship is a term for the ship where the highest commander of that fleet seats. Anything can be a flagship, a frigate, a cruiser, a battleship, a capital ship, though in real life the big guys tend to sit in the biggest ship, there are some cases like when that ship got destroyed, he moved to a frigate and that frigate could be called a flagship. If you mean a ship with the intended role to increase the effectiveness of the whole fleet in combat, we got the command ships already, actually any battlecruiser can be gang booster but field command ships are the those specialized for that role. I dont see how sub capital ships get disadvantage in fighting with capital ships, i just see that capital ships are the ones that get disadvanted in fighting with smaller ships, and if you are completely out weighed and out numbered and still win, would that be unfair for those who brought a lot more just to lose.
Poldarn Joaq Cruor Frater Coalition Of Carebear Killers	Posted - 2009.01.21 10:02:00 - [679] Please can I have a Flagship? Come on CCP its a great idea. --------------- Thats no moon!! ---------------
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.21 22:33:00 - [680] Consider the name of the class to be a working concept name. The name was for it was the one that i flet best suited and described what this ships was intended and designed to be. I suppose I could call it a Heavy Command Ship but that seemed way to campy. But in all honesty its up to CCP to make the final desision on the ships and their eventual status as a part of the game or just a good idea.
Mrs Altimcaltalt	Posted - 2009.01.24 05:03:00 - [681] OK CCP!!!! STICKY THIS THRED ALREADY! I WANT THESE SHIPS!
DarkRavin hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.24 05:12:00 - [682] Signed _______________________________________________ Some people are alive only because it's illegal to kill them.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.27 17:22:00 - [683] Thanks for the support guys. If anyone has any suggestions to make please feel free to post them.
lech lizdian	Posted - 2009.02.01 18:40:00 - [684] Edited by: lech lizdian on 01/02/2009 18:41:35 Edited by: lech lizdian on 01/02/2009 18:40:57 Originally by: Anh Nguyen I though that flag ship is a term for the ship where the highest commander of that fleet seats. Anything can be a flagship, a frigate, a cruiser, a battleship, a capital ship, though in real life the big guys tend to sit in the biggest ship, there are some cases like when that ship got destroyed, he moved to a frigate and that frigate could be called a flagship. If you mean a ship with the intended role to increase the effectiveness of the whole fleet in combat, we got the command ships already, actually any battlecruiser can be gang booster but field command ships are the those specialized for that role. usually a titan could be consiterd a "Flag ship" but thats why the flag ship idea has the simular bonus of a titan (increase armor for galente ect....) not every alliance/corp can afford to get thier ass in a titan, and also titans cant be used in high sec... which renders them useless for war decs.... you can also look at the flag ship as a mini titan in the same respect as to why they came out with the mini rorq... i would love to see this ship introduced.... maybe first expansion after tech III ships would be nice
Zaknussem Caldari Intrum Industria	Posted - 2009.02.02 01:10:00 - [685] I speedread through about half the thread, but couldn't find anyone asking what I'm about to ask... Why make Flagships a T2 Tier 3 BS? Why not follow the established pattern and make it a whole new T1 ship class? (The pattern I'm referrring to is the one of ship classes. For every original ship class in EvE, an interrim ship class has been introduced that borrows abilities from both its smaller and bigger "brothers"...except the Battleship. Flagships would be the interrim class between the Battleship and the Capital Ship.) I know that everybody here wants a T2 Tier 3 BS, but I have a feeling that you would better achieve your goal if you envisioned it as a T1 hull. (Then you could play around with a T2 version of the Flagship hull and possibly create a PvP monster. ) Just a thought.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.02.02 02:30:00 - [686] The suggestion of a completely new hull has been made before. And several times in this thread. But in all the research I have done for these ships I have no come across the concept that there needs to be a completely new T1 ship. The Command ships are based off of the tech 1 tier 1 battlecruisers. And there are no other command oriented ships until you get to capitals. And to be perfectly fair, Capitals to not really fallow the same rules as the sub-capitals. The main reason or the tech 2 tier 3 battleship is for many reasons. The ships currently have no tech 2 varients. They are almost the same as the tier 1 battlecruisers in the form of bonuses. As a command platform they seem a rather obvious choice. And I happen to like the idea of using them as a command platform. But making a completely new hull seems a bit off the beaten path. It would involve a lot of choices that I think can be better solved by simply making a T2 varient of a ship. The ship design here is really aimed at the smaller corps and helping them. As another person mentioned, not everyone can afford the titans.
Gantor Tesla	Posted - 2009.02.02 02:46:00 - [687] Originally by: Zaknussem I speedread through about half the thread, but couldn't find anyone asking what I'm about to ask... Why make Flagships a T2 Tier 3 BS? Why not follow the established pattern and make it a whole new T1 ship class? (The pattern I'm referrring to is the one of ship classes. For every original ship class in EvE, an interrim ship class has been introduced that borrows abilities from both its smaller and bigger "brothers"...except the Battleship. Flagships would be the interrim class between the Battleship and the Capital Ship.) I know that everybody here wants a T2 Tier 3 BS, but I have a feeling that you would better achieve your goal if you envisioned it as a T1 hull. (Then you could play around with a T2 version of the Flagship hull and possibly create a PvP monster. ) Just a thought. I'm working on this here. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=988055 I had similar ideas, we talked about them earlier in the tread. I came to the same conclusion as Bal, that the T3 BS is a good bigger Command ship, but it strains the ships trying to be the bridge between classes.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.02.02 03:31:00 - [688] I should point out that I have given up the idea that these ship could truely bridge the gap between the sub caps and the cap ships. I would much rather have them be more fleet oriented then trying to fill that roll.
fuxinos Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm	Posted - 2009.02.02 11:14:00 - [689] Edited by: fuxinos on 02/02/2009 11:15:06 The balance of the propossed ships is quite good, they look like they are well thought out. But if you look closer, yoou will find many mistakes: 1. The Vanguisher is from Khanid, Khanidships always give the oppurtunity to fit Lasers - Give 7-8 Turretharpoints. 2. The Vanguisher has the worst offensive capability - 1 more Missilelauncherhardpoint + Explovelobonus to 10% Missile speed bonus (Just to bring it in line with all the other Fleetflagships offensivecapability). 3. The resits of the ships are completly screwed. Caldari for example has high Kinetic and Thermic resits on Shield AND Armor, but you gave the Caldari Flagships 50% Exploresist on Armor, that should not be like that. 4. On the Tsunami, dont make the same mistake as CCP by negating the advantage of choosing the damage you want to deal by giving the ship a Kineticdamagebonus (Drones are the best example, why use specific drones, if Hobgoblins still deal more damage, because of their high damagemodifier). If you would fix these, I see no point why these ships should not be implemented.
Zaknussem Caldari Intrum Industria	Posted - 2009.02.02 13:12:00 - [690] Originally by: Balor Haliquin The main reason or the tech 2 tier 3 battleship is for many reasons. The ships currently have no tech 2 varients. They are almost the same as the tier 1 battlecruisers in the form of bonuses. As a command platform they seem a rather obvious choic The Tier 2 Battlecruisers don't have T2 variants either. Wouldn't common sense dictate that if you're trying to build a ship with Leadership bonuses, you use a ship that has already been earmarked for the role, namely the Battlecruisers? Especially, as you say it, they are "almost the same as T1 Battlecruisers in the form of bonuses"? Because it's already been done? Then I ask, why make a Flagship to begin with? The game already have a ship class that both gives Leadership bonuses and can fight on its own. Unfortunately, it does more of the latter than the former. Quote: As a command platform they seem a rather obvious choice. And I happen to like the idea of using them as a command platform. The obvious choice here is that it's your idea and that you like it. Don't take this the wrong way, I'm not criticizing your idea in itself, but I'm poking at the foundations on which your idea is built, as I see them to be unsound. You've created a very good and balanced set of ships (rulewise) but the truth is that they're not needed. We already have Command Ships; the fact that they're not being used as intended is a problem with CCP not balancing them properly, not because they aren't good enough and a similar but bigger ship is needed. I'm afraid you've lost sight of the bigger picture, and what you need to do is go back to the basics: Why does EvE need a Flagship? Why does EvE need a larger Command Ship? You have yet to answer these questions convincingly, despite the project being this old and the thread this long. Once you have sorted this out, the chances of CCP implementing your idea into EvE will increase tenfold.
Odyessus	Posted - 2009.02.02 22:13:00 - [691] /signed for amarr
Fullmetal Jackass	Posted - 2009.02.02 23:01:00 - [692] Why do we need another t2 super tanked ship? Why do we need another ship that gives command bonuses?
Sethile	Posted - 2009.02.03 07:35:00 - [693] Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass Why do we need another t2 super tanked ship? Why do we need another ship that gives command bonuses? There seems to be 24 pages on the why. Perhaps you should read them. If you have, and you understand what is being said, then post a constructive reason (or two) on why you disagree. Otherwise, don't troll in what has been, for the most part, a very constructive thread. Cheers
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.02.03 07:43:00 - [694] There is strange quirk of the bonuses that T2 ships get for Caldari. The bonuses that are assigned to the to them are blanket bonuses to the Armor and Shields. So that you get some strange resistances where the armor is higher then the shield resistances. So if the base resistances for the armor are higher then the base resistances of the shields then you will have higher armor resistances after the bonus is applied. Its strange to see but its on other ships. The extra turrets for the vanquisher is noted. I did not realize that Khanid ships had so many turrets. Ill be adding some more in the next version of the ships. Probably not the 7-8 desired. The question of what are the purpose of these ships has been asked many times. The reason for the ships is for a heavy command ship that can survive a reasonable amount of time longer in a fleet battle then its smaller brother. Yes the command ships are command oriented but they are still to thin as far as raw HP for most major engagements. The other issue with the Command ships is they do have the ability to fit armored warfare links but they have no intrinsic bonus to a fleet operation. With the Flagships in the bonus position (the position that gives the fleet bonuses) you are giving the fleet a massive bonus to its fleet. The whole concept behind the ships is multi-fold, it aids small gangs with massive fleet bonuses, it aids small corperations and alliances that are unable to afford the very large command platforms, it has the ability to fallow and deploy in many places that capital ships would be prevented from entering (cyno-jammed systems and high sec) and thus continuing to give massive bonuses to its fleet, and it robust tanking ability makes sure it will survive longer on the battlefield (allowing more time for logistics to be placed on the ship). The ships are more then anything designed for the fleet role. Command ships are more designed as combat platforms that have the option of warfare link modules placed on them. There is nothing wrong with that philosiphy but I think that the game really lacks a command oriented ship other then the titan. Which also has a automatic fleet bonus on it. Sure many ships have the abillity to fit warfare links, but only the Mother Ships and maybe the carriers are the few I have seen used in that function. As for using the tier 2 Battlecruisers, I think they would be better used as another type of ship. It would seem rather redundant to have the Tech 2 version of the tier 2 Battlecruisers be exactly the same as the other Command ships. It would be a rather large exercise in redundancy.
Fullmetal Jackass	Posted - 2009.02.03 12:40:00 - [695] Who's trolling? Let's start with tank. It's a bit of a mute point. Currently a fleet booster doesn't need to be on grid to provide his fleet with bonuses. They technically don't need any tank at all. Second: command ships have roughly half the hp of a tier 3 BS, but they also have half the sig radius and much better resists. In my experience they hold up just as well as a BS in fleet warfare. There is a very good reason why CCP decided not to give the current t2 battleships high resists. It would make them "must have" ships. Everyone that could afford one would be flying one, command bonuses or not. You'll recall that for a very long time command ships were small to mid sized fleet "end game" for pvp. Third: even if ccp decided to go ahead and give you a BS with super resists, you are still gimping minmatar and gallente on tank bonuses. It's long and repeatedly been argued that when a ship is taking focused fire, extra resists trump rep ammount bonuses. Not only do the resists multiply effective hp, they improve the effectiveness of reppers and remoted reppers by the same magnitude. I know you are suggesting the traditional racial bonuses, but if yer gonna push for a super tanked class of battleship, be fair to all the races. I'm running out of time so I'll have to skip bonuses for now, but it seems to me that you are just asking for an extra super Heavy Assault Ship, which would be near impossible to kill. Not so good for game balance. And not likely to be implemented by ccp.
LiBraga Killjoy.	Posted - 2009.02.03 12:55:00 - [696] Name: Artemis Hull: Hyperion Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: CreoDron As the largest drone developer and manufacturer in space, CreoDron has a vested interest in drone carriers. While sacrificing relatively little in the way of defensive capability, the Artimus can chew its way through surprisingly strong opponents - provided, of course, that the pilot uses top-of-the-line CreoDron drones. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 10% bonus to drone Hit Points and Damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Armor Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Information Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Someone just wants a stronger buffer tank drone boat me thinks. Get the flagship skill up and this ship would be stronger than the current buffer tank domi, whilst having a slightly better omni tank. Whilst being able to fit command modules as well.... OVERKILL
Zaknussem Caldari Intrum Industria	Posted - 2009.02.03 13:34:00 - [697] Thanks for taking the time to answering my questions. I now see how Flagships can fill a niche in the existing ship hierarchy. However, I just noticed one fleet bonus that I previously overlooked, and it alone is a singular reason why this concept will never be approved as is. It's the Amarr fleet bonus. At Flagships V that would mean a 25% faster capacitor recharge rate for every ship in the fleet. It's pure madness, that's the only words I have for it. Whether they need to be on the same grid or not is irrelevant, it's just too powerful. This alone makes the other 6 Flagships useless in comparison. If your proposal would be approved as-is, Amarr Flagships would be the end-game ships for 90% of PvP'ers in EvE, as every ship in the game can vastly benefit from a faster cap recharge rate. Amarr would become even more FOTM, and a deluge of forum whining would be unleashed upon us. Besides, there is also the matter of "primary". Flagships would become the ultimate primary target in any fleet engagement. Forget Titans, spidertanking Motherships and any amount of Logistic ships you can think of, taking down the Flagship will take priority because of the bonuses it gives. And that's just if there is only one Flagship in the fleet, any sensible Fleet Commander will have several backups ready. When another Flagship-flying pilot has taken over the fleet from the previous one, the cycle repeats itself. The only viable solution becomes to throw more ships at the enemy fleet, i.e. bigger blobs. I will not support any ship design that promotes blobbing. I say nay.
fuxinos Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm	Posted - 2009.02.03 16:56:00 - [698] Edited by: fuxinos on 03/02/2009 16:56:30 Originally by: Zaknussem Thanks for taking the time to answering my questions. I now see how Flagships can fill a niche in the existing ship hierarchy. However, I just noticed one fleet bonus that I previously overlooked, and it alone is a singular reason why this concept will never be approved as is. It's the Amarr fleet bonus. At Flagships V that would mean a 25% faster capacitor recharge rate for every ship in the fleet. It's pure madness, that's the only words I have for it. Whether they need to be on the same grid or not is irrelevant, it's just too powerful. This alone makes the other 6 Flagships useless in comparison. If your proposal would be approved as-is, Amarr Flagships would be the end-game ships for 90% of PvP'ers in EvE, as every ship in the game can vastly benefit from a faster cap recharge rate. Amarr would become even more FOTM, and a deluge of forum whining would be unleashed upon us. Besides, there is also the matter of "primary". Flagships would become the ultimate primary target in any fleet engagement. Forget Titans, spidertanking Motherships and any amount of Logistic ships you can think of, taking down the Flagship will take priority because of the bonuses it gives. And that's just if there is only one Flagship in the fleet, any sensible Fleet Commander will have several backups ready. When another Flagship-flying pilot has taken over the fleet from the previous one, the cycle repeats itself. The only viable solution becomes to throw more ships at the enemy fleet, i.e. bigger blobs. I will not support any ship design that promotes blobbing. I say nay. I thought the same when I was reading the ship bonis, yes the bonis need to be smaller, but blobing like you stated, is already pretty common, even without Flagships. 1. The Fleetflagshipbonus for Gallente needs another bonus instead of 10% dronedamage - 10% to dronehitpoints only would be enough. 2. Imagine the unbelievable buffertanks that would be possible with these 25% bonis - change to 2% per level. 3. MAYBE give the Fleetflagships immunitie to Ewar stuff to higher their survivability, so the only way to hold them would be to have an HIC or a bubble.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.02.03 19:11:00 - [699] I have heard the argument on these being nothing more then super heavy assault ships, but I'm hard pressed to find any evidence. The ships do get some bonuses to two resistances that are related to the same ones that all the other T2 ships of that race get. And the amount of the bonuses are much less then any of the other T2 ships. So the super resistant ships that people claim these are cant be had by the math. Best case senario is that a Requiem (Amarr Frontline Command Ship) has nothing but resistance modules in its lows and has the armored warfare links in its highs. Now doing this with T2 modules (because anyone can make the argument that any ship is broken with faction/deadspace/officer modules) you would get average resistances in the mid 80s range. Thats less then the absolution and zealot if they were built the same way. The difference being is that the Requiem can buffer tank much more. Trying to dual rep would be hard because you would be sacrificing a lot of valuble PG and CPU to the dual reps. Remeber that the ships have less PG and CPU then their stock ships. Also for the most part the Flagships will do less DPS and Volly then their base ships because they have less of a bonus to their respective guns. So Im rather unsure where the argument of the Flagship being a huge DPS throwing super tanking super HAC comes from. The ships are designed to be more survivable in combat, that is truely their soul advantage over their base ships when you compare them to each other. They become even more effective in their ability to tank when put into a fleet and allow the fleet around them to act more freely and hopefuly survive the encounter. The Flagships are fleet ships, but their exsistance on the battlefield will not constitute an acceleration of blob warfare. All the Flagships do is make the ships that it is giving a bonus to more effective. Blob warfare will continue to expand and explode as long as there is no drawback to having more ships on the field of battle aiming at one target. The Flagships will do nothing to further this or prevent this from happening. The Amarr Flagships do get an awesome bonus to the fleet under them but its not something that is completely unheard of. The bonus is actualy based off of the Avatar's bonus to its fleet. It is a much less potent then the one on the Avatar but it is the same non the less. Considering the other bonuses i don't think it is hugely out of proportion. Consider that the Gallente flagship would mean that armor buffer tanks are even more of a brick wall to get by, the Caldari bonus means that passive tanked ships are even more powerful, and with Minmatar all you ships are taking less damage due to their 25% (at max level) small signature radius. The Amarr bonus is fantastic but what good does it do to passive tanked missile ships? Yes the tanks are more formitable but they are not impossible to kill. 2 Abaddons fit for combat on the opposing fleet could easily chew through most of the ships that have the bonus with little trouble. The point is to make the ships in the fleet more difficult to kill but not imposible. A Flagship bonus to complete e-war immunity would make them a solo machine off doom. So i dont think that would make sence.
lech lizdian	Posted - 2009.02.04 04:23:00 - [700] Edited by: lech lizdian on 04/02/2009 04:24:14 Originally by: Zaknussem The Tier 2 Battlecruisers don't have T2 variants either. Wouldn't common sense dictate that if you're trying to build a ship with Leadership bonuses, you use a ship that has already been earmarked for the role, namely the Battlecruisers? Especially, as you say it, they are "almost the same as T1 Battlecruisers in the form of bonuses"? DUDE!!!! its only a matter of time before ccp changes that.... JUST LOOK AT MY COVERT OPS SHIPS! The Eos will look like a myrm the Nighthawk will look like a drake the slyphnir will look like a hurricane the Absolutsion will look like a harbringer.... so as it stands you are correct... but by summer this should be changed... it only makes sense when you look at these ships and the tech II varriants they should fill... once this has been done there is no reason not to do this... though i think your argument for not making them in the first place is weak at best
Severice Crushed Ambitions	Posted - 2009.02.04 07:14:00 - [701] I'm not a fan of these ships at all. i see them being used to replace the HIC in low sec and empire warfare where everyone is so paranoid of losing a ship that they have to use the heaviest tank they can possibly fit on a ship so they can kill a t1 cruiser and wait out the fire of 3 other ships and dock up to safety. These ships would have such massive tanks they would have no reason to fear ANY ship in single combat. They just wouldn't die. They would also have increased DPS when compaired to a ship like the HIC, and other super tanked ships making them the ideal super tanking ship.
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2009.02.04 11:39:00 - [702] Originally by: Severice I'm not a fan of these ships at all. i see them being used to replace the HIC in low sec and empire warfare where everyone is so paranoid of losing a ship that they have to use the heaviest tank they can possibly fit on a ship so they can kill a t1 cruiser and wait out the fire of 3 other ships and dock up to safety. These ships would have such massive tanks they would have no reason to fear ANY ship in single combat. They just wouldn't die. They would also have increased DPS when compaired to a ship like the HIC, and other super tanked ships making them the ideal super tanking ship. HICs shrivel up when you neuter them. ============= Pre Order your Sisters of Eve ship today
Zaknussem Caldari Intrum Industria	Posted - 2009.02.04 13:03:00 - [703] Edited by: Zaknussem on 04/02/2009 13:03:14 Originally by: Balor Haliquin The Flagships are fleet ships, but their exsistance on the battlefield will not constitute an acceleration of blob warfare. All the Flagships do is make the ships that it is giving a bonus to more effective. Blob warfare will continue to expand and explode as long as there is no drawback to having more ships on the field of battle aiming at one target. The Flagships will do nothing to further this or prevent this from happening. Then you're either ignorant on how blob warfare works or in denial of the effects of Flagships. They will accelerate blob warfare. They will result in Titan-busting methods being employed in smaller fleet wars, as your Flagships are just that: Mini-Titans. Quote: The Amarr Flagships do get an awesome bonus to the fleet under them but its not something that is completely unheard of. The bonus is actualy based off of the Avatar's bonus to its fleet. It is a much less potent then the one on the Avatar but it is the same non the less. Considering the other bonuses i don't think it is hugely out of proportion. The Titan's bonus is logical because it's on a Titan. A Titan is the end-game ship of EvE, period. It takes a dedicated group of players several months to build one, tens of billions of ISK in funding and a couple of years of training. It's natural that the group as a whole (when they're together in a fleet) get to enjoy the benefits of their efforts. The loss of a Titan is also colossal. A Flagship requires only a fraction of the same effort, cost and training to be built and flown, and the loss of one is a minor setback at best, yet a Flagship has the same effect on a fleet (on a slightly smaller scale, of course) as a Titan. Quote: Consider that the Gallente flagship would mean that armor buffer tanks are even more of a brick wall to get by, the Caldari bonus means that passive tanked ships are even more powerful, and with Minmatar all you ships are taking less damage due to their 25% (at max level) small signature radius. The Amarr bonus is fantastic but what good does it do to passive tanked missile ships? Off the top of my head, it allows passive-tanked missile ships to employ an active tank on top of the passive one, making them even harder to kill. What you're conveniently ignoring are all the other PvP ships, whose all-round performance is dominated by the capacitor. They will not only be able to tank better but to gank better as well, depending on how they choose to use the added cap. Compared to the other skills (which only boost defenses) the Amarr Flagship bonus is the clear winner by miles. There isn't a single ship in EvE that does not benefit from more cap. Quote: Yes the tanks are more formitable but they are not impossible to kill. 2 Abaddons fit for combat on the opposing fleet could easily chew through most of the ships that have the bonus with little trouble. The point is to make the ships in the fleet more difficult to kill but not imposible. You're underestimating the EvE playerbase here. As I said before, a simple armour/shield boost and/or signal radius decrease will only improve the ship's defenses. The Amarr Flagship bonus, however, opens new doors in ship layouts. It won't take long for the EFT warriors to come up with new ship configurations that, combined with the Amarr Flagship bonus, can take on virtually any ship in space. Those 2 Abbadons you mentioned are good examples. Unsupported by Amarr Flagships, they can take down most ships in the opposing fleet, as you say, but...what if the Abbadons are boosted by Amarr Flagships? EDIT: Typo.
Zaknussem Caldari Intrum Industria	Posted - 2009.02.04 13:30:00 - [704] Originally by: lech lizdian DUDE!!!! its only a matter of time before ccp changes that.... JUST LOOK AT MY COVERT OPS SHIPS! The Eos will look like a myrm the Nighthawk will look like a drake the slyphnir will look like a hurricane the Absolutsion will look like a harbringer.... How do you know? With the Covert Ops ships, it was obvious that they screwed up with the ship hulls, especially since one of the T1 frigates was missing the whole time. The fix was inevitable, and will not be rolled back. (Live with it.) With the Battlecruisers, on the other hand, the issue is not so clear. There is no clear screwup with the hulls, and we have no idea whether CCP are saving the Tier 2 hulls for another ship class. Yes, it makes sense that the Nighthawk would use the Drake hull based on its bonuses, but that also sets the precedence that it should be the Field Command Ships that use the Tier 2 BC hulls. Now look at the other 3 ships. Does the Sleipnir get the same bonuses as the Hurricane? No, it gets the same bonuses as the Cyclone. Does the Astarte (here's where you are wrong, it should be the Astarte, not the Eos) get the same bonuses as the Myrmidon? No, it gets the same bonuses as the Brutix. Does the Absolution get the same bonuses as the Harbinger? No, it gets the same bonuses as the Prophecy. The fact of the matter is that the Nighthawk is the exception to the rule here, at least when it comes to the Field Command ships. If CCP were to change the hulls, they would have to change the bonuses on all four Field Command Ships to justify changing the hulls. That's some major rebalancing that needs to be done. In the case of the Covert Ops, they were only fixing an obvious error. Of course, the other way to fix this is to change only the Nighthawk so its bonuses match that of the Ferox, which makes far more sense...but then what about the Damnation or the Eos? Their bonuses don't exactly match the ones of the Prophecy or the Brutix either. Wouldn't that have to be corrected as well? That's another layer of changes needed, just to justify the changes to the Nighthawk. In short, fiddling with the hulls on Command Ships will needlessly open up a can of worms. Your statement of "it only makes sense when you look at these ships" has no merit here. But I'm straying from the topic here, which are Flagships, and for this I apologize. Carry on.
Gantor Tesla	Posted - 2009.02.04 14:59:00 - [705] Originally by: Zaknussem Edited by: Zaknussem on 04/02/2009 13:03:14 A Titan is the end-game ship of EvE, period. For now... Originally by: Zaknussem Off the top of my head, it allows passive-tanked missile ships to employ an active tank on top of the passive one, making them even harder to kill. lol What? So the ships are going to magically get more slots too?
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.02.04 19:29:00 - [706] Im not sure how the flagship will replace the HIC considering that the two ships could not be further apart on the jobs they have in fleet. The HIC being a dedicated tackler and the Flagship being a dedicated command ship. I'm not sure what you mean by that. Yes, you could set up a pile of ships to work with a Flagship and be dependent on the fleet bonuses that it gives out. But frankly that would be beyond stupid for a fleet commander. The only time I have seen such setups work well is in the very restricted and controlled combat area that is the Alliance Tournys. I have seen the concept used in fleets before but it often suffers the same fate, that being the enemy fleet just gets more people on target and the whole fleet collapses as soon as one of their intergral ships pops. Its is far better and far more sensible to have each ship me able to stand on its own and benefit from the added from the Flagship or what ever other command ship happens to be around. If the Amarr bonus is so fantastic then why do we not see every titan that is built being an Avatar? Simply put the bonus is good but not game ending good. Just because you have more cap to play with does not mean that you automaticaly tank harder or fire faster. It simply means that you ships in the fleet have a slightly more stable cap to play with. For example, a gank fit Abaddon or Megathron will not be doing any more damage beacuse of the cap boost. They are almost cap stable to begin with. And if you went for an active tank on them instead of the passive buffer it would make them wildly cap unstable, even with the boost. The vast majority of the PvP ships out there would not be effected drasticly. It would make them harder to tackle down with cap warfare, and for some it would mean they could run their armor reps and shield reps for a few more cycles. But for the passive ships it does next to nothing for them.
Danta Train	Posted - 2009.02.04 19:45:00 - [707] Ok can I just make a small point here. Its a battleship for f*ing crying out loud, last time I checked a battleships purpose was to sit there and take a f* load of damage and deal out a f* load of damage. If I wanted to fly some panzy a ship then it would be a f***ing destroyer or something like that. Personally I hope these ships do get made at least then we can have a battleship style ship that deserves to be related to the title of having a battleship If that something you cannot live with well what can I say.........!!!!
Zaknussem Caldari Intrum Industria	Posted - 2009.02.04 21:43:00 - [708] Originally by: Gantor Tesla Originally by: Zaknussem A Titan is the end-game ship of EvE, period. For now... "For now" has been the status quo for close to 3 years, and will most likely be the status quo for another 3 years, propably longer. Quote: Originally by: Zaknussem Off the top of my head, it allows passive-tanked missile ships to employ an active tank on top of the passive one, making them even harder to kill. lol What? So the ships are going to magically get more slots too? Take the least important mid-slot module of a passive tank outfit and replace it with an active-tank module. If you choose wisely you'll only reduce the passive tank by 10% and gain the option to boost the ship's tank by anywhere from 20%-35%...for a limited amount of time. Now imagine if the ship "magically" gains a 25% bonus to its cap recharge rate. Odds are very good that you can then either perma-run this singular active-tank module, or replace it with a bigger active-tank module and temporarily gain roughly 50% better shields on the ship. I'll admit that the above numbers are rough. I'll also admit that it's debatable whether this is a good idea or not. Originally by: Balor Haliquin Badly spelled and non-grammatical stuff First off, I never even suggested that an entire fleet should use Flagship-dependant ship fittings. Those are your assumptions, leave me out of them. Secondly, saying that ship-dependant fleets are doomed to fail, while proposing a ship design that make entire fleets count upon its existence for added survival and/or bonuses, is kinda pathetic. Especially when the fleet has to use an abnormally high amount of its total resources to keep one ship alive. If ship-dependant fleets are doomed to fail, then it's logical to assume that fleet-dependant ships are doomed to fail as well, yes? Lastly, Avatars are the most numerous Titans in EvE, past and present. Gives us an idea what people are looking for in a Titan, doesn't it? Why doesn't every Titan-capable pilot fly an Avatar? Maybe it would take more training to fly an Avatar than one of the other Titans. Maybe people flat out refuse to fly Amarr ships for whatever reason. Maybe people think it's too ugly to live. It could be anything, and it doesn't really detract from my point. ... I grow tired of this debate, so I'm pulling out of it. I hope some of the counterpoints I provided will help you to improve this into something that's viable for EvE. As is, I don't think Flagships will improve EvE in any way.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.02.04 22:10:00 - [709] I think you misunderstood what i meant about fleet being dependant on s ship. Is you built all your ships around the exisitance of some bonus that a ship gives to all of its memebers in a fleet. And that ship dies due to the riggers of war and battle. Then it is rather safe to assume that the other ships will be serious trouble without that ship. But on the other hand if you have a ship that gives the same bonus but you set up your fleet so that the ships exsistance is a bonus rather then a necessity to the fleet, then you will have a much more survivable fleet. I think a better way to improve the tank of Caldari ships that are usually passive fit is not to put an active repper on them but to keep the passive fit and have the Caldari flagship sit over them. It will give them much more of a boost then trying to refit the ships for a active tank and if the Flagship explodes you are little less worse for wear. The passive tanks are less potent but no less effective at the job they need to do. Im sorry to say but I really don't see how many of the points you have made would turn into the monsters you predict. I'm not saying you are wrong I'm just saying that the monsters are either already in the game and would be unaffected by this ship, or that the situations you invision I have a hard time seeing them coming true. Blob warfare will be not matter what the player base does. Only the work of the devs can change that mechanic at all. And the new rule of eve is the bigger blob wins. Any command ship would change that fact only slightly and it would be more up to the fleet commanders skill and the pilots under him to change the tied of battle.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.02.13 19:50:00 - [710] A friend of mine online has pointed out some gramatical errors and spelling errors. Ill have to fix those in the next version. Other then that I'm not sure I want to add more turrets to the Vanquisher. It seems to me that even though they are called for by presidence it would mean that I would have to add turrets to other missile boats. I'm not sure I want to head down that slope just yet.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.03.06 05:17:00 - [711] Quick bump to keep the idea fresh
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2009.03.06 08:20:00 - [712] DPS and TPS graphs comming in to see where these ships lie in performance of damage? ============= Pre Order your Sisters of Eve ship today
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.03.06 20:45:00 - [713] TPS, I'm not sure what that means. Though if you want to do the experiment for DPS its rather easy. I think I gave enough info for anyone to figure it out.
Sunbird Huy Caldari Shadow's Hunters Prismatic Refraction	Posted - 2009.03.06 22:35:00 - [714] Interesting!
McDaddy Pimp Brutor tribe	Posted - 2009.03.07 11:38:00 - [715] Originally by: lech lizdian Edited by: lech lizdian on 04/02/2009 04:24:14 Originally by: Zaknussem The Tier 2 Battlecruisers don't have T2 variants either. Wouldn't common sense dictate that if you're trying to build a ship with Leadership bonuses, you use a ship that has already been earmarked for the role, namely the Battlecruisers? Especially, as you say it, they are "almost the same as T1 Battlecruisers in the form of bonuses"? DUDE!!!! its only a matter of time before ccp changes that.... JUST LOOK AT MY COVERT OPS SHIPS! The Eos will look like a myrm the Nighthawk will look like a drake the slyphnir will look like a hurricane the Absolutsion will look like a harbringer.... so as it stands you are correct... but by summer this should be changed... it only makes sense when you look at these ships and the tech II varriants they should fill... once this has been done there is no reason not to do this... though i think your argument for not making them in the first place is weak at best i don't think it gonna happen, it has sommthing to do with screwing up invention, since you need the T1 hull of each CS to make the BPCs and changing the base ship will cause many problems, both concerning science & industry`s gameplay and the database etc.. it was a dev response i think... also i think i read somewhere that CCP originally planned a "heavy recon" ship for the tier2 bc hulls, but the idea got canned because of balance issue or something.. also i read all this a long time ago.. 2007, could be mistaken though
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.03.08 00:42:00 - [716] The Covert-Ops ships got a hull change because some of them were not using the proper base ship. CCP admitted as much. For example of the Covert-Ops ships used the astrometrics frigates as a base. The exceptions were the Gallente and Amarr. The Amarr used a different hull because for the longest time (Since the start of the game) the Amarr were missing their astrometrics frigate and thus used a different hull. This was corrected so that there was a lot more uniformety in the game. The Covert-Ops were the only ships that did not fallow the rule of how T2 ships were set up. And as such they were changed. I have heard of the Tech 2 Tier 2 Battlecruisers as heavy recons but never got past the rumor stage. Anyway back to topic. I don't think I can give the Kahnid ship more turrets for balance reasons. Granted you could make an argument for the negitive side effects of having a heavily split weapons load out for PvP. But there are several in game examples that I have personally work very well with split weapons loads (namely the Typhoon) used in PvP. The Khanid ship would be more dangerous with a split weapons load out because one weapon system does not need any ammo. I'm not saying its not how the race is fit and setup. But I would rather air on the side of caution then have an win button ship.
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2009.03.08 09:05:00 - [717] Originally by: Balor Haliquin TPS, I'm not sure what that means. Though if you want to do the experiment for DPS its rather easy. I think I gave enough info for anyone to figure it out. TPS tanked per second vs effective HP ============= Pre Order your Sisters of Eve ship today
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.03.08 18:45:00 - [718] Ahh, okay. The issue with trying to do that is that you are going to be more restricted by the fitting requirements. To be honest there is a bit of an issue with trying to figure out the DPS as well. Too many bonuses and now they interact not to mention penelties and so on. I can try and figure out how well they will passive and active tank but its going to take a lot of guess work and a lot of time, and the results are not going to be very close to what they would be in game.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.03.24 01:25:00 - [719] Edited by: Balor Haliquin on 24/03/2009 01:26:59 Okay so i finally got the math done for the major ship stats. These are making several basic assumptions about fits. First off the armor tankers are using 2x Large Armor Repairer II and the shield tankers are using 1x XL Shield Booster II and a Shield Boost Amplifier. No other tanking mods were used to calculate4 their active defence. The Effective Hit Points tanks are based off their starting HP and nothing els. I hope this will help with the discussion. The DPS is based on a sigle rack of guns with no drones, so some ships may seem like they have very little DPS but in reality they will be much higher. Weapons were also calculated at all to 5. NOTE: My math is not perfect and I don't really trust the EHP numbers. I think they are about 10%-15% off in the positive direction. I.E. they have more HP then I have shown. Requiem >Damage Per Second (8xMegaPuleII Multi) 441.6 >Damage Per Second Tank (2x LARII) 288.8 DPSt >Effective Hit Points (no mods) 38,830.015625 Vanquisher >Damage Per Second (6x SiegeL II) 354 DPS >Damage Per Second Tank (2x LARII) 288.8 DPSt >Effective Hit Points (no mods) 38,571.353125 Tsunami >Damage Per Second (7x CruiserL II KineticMissiles) 385 DPS >Damage Per Second Tank (1x XL-Shield+ SBA II) 330.727 DPSt >Effective Hit Points (no mods) 37,440.99609 Bastion >Damage Per Second (7x NeutronBlasterCannonII Antimatter) 385 DPS >Damage Per Second Tank (1x XL-Shield+ SBA II) 330.727 DPSt >Effective Hit Points (no mods) 37,564.0429 Athena Shield >Damage Per Second (8x NeutronBlasterCannonII Antimatter) 506 DPS >Damage Per Second Tank (2x LAR II) 340.6891 DPSt >Effective Hit Points (no mods) 37,430.078125 Artemis Shield >Damage Per Second (6x NeutronBlasterCannonII Antimatter) 330 DPS >Damage Per Second Tank (2x LAR II) 340.6891 DPSt >Effective Hit Points (no mods) 37,503.90625 Lahar >Damage Per Second (8x 800mm Repeating ArtII EMP) 385.8 DPS >Damage Per Second Tank (1x XL-Shield+ SBA II) 401.96322 DPSt >Effective Hit Points (no mods) 36,461.328125 Halberd >Damage Per Second (6x 800mm Repeating ArtII EMP) 292.5 DPS >Damage Per Second Tank (1x XL-Shield+ SBA II) 401.96322 DPSt >Effective Hit Points (no mods) 35,959.375125 Almost forgot; very important. After doing all the match I realized that the Halberd was very low in the DPS market so I changed the rate of fire bonus from 3% to 5% and it brought up the DPS nicely. I will change the latest versions to reflect this change.
Fille Balle	Posted - 2009.03.25 11:26:00 - [720] I approve of this! CCP make it happen. Free bump + /signed
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.03.25 17:18:00 - [721] Okay so after doing some more math I think I have found out what the issue is. EFT seems to give the Abaddon and the other tier 3 battleships a few more EHP then they deserve. I'm not sure how they get to this number, or if I am missing another bonus to the health of a ship. So if I go by my math, the flagships have about 5%-10% more starting EHP on average. This is simply due to the higher resistance. Flagships do not have a higher total number of hit points compared to their stock ships.
Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2009.03.25 19:13:00 - [722] I don't like the name, since a 'flagship' is basically a ship with an admiral on it. Any ship could be a flagship. It's a role, not a ship type. It'd be like naming a type of ship 'Fleet Scout' or 'Sniper' or 'Suicide-Ganker' or 'AFK Mission Runner'.
hawtalt pr0nmistress	Posted - 2009.03.25 21:53:00 - [723] Originally by: Kyra Felann It's a role, not a ship type. It'd be like naming a type of ship 'Fleet Scout' or 'Sniper' or 'Suicide-Ganker' or 'AFK Mission Runner'. or command ship perhaps? oh wait...
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.03.26 04:49:00 - [724] The name for the class is, more then anything, simply a name at this point. I had considered calling them Heavy Command Ships but the name seemed drab and rather technical. I lacked some panache and punch. Considering the game, I'm not to sure this is a bad thing. But the game has enough HICs, HACs, and the like. Marauders and Black Ops ships have really cool sounding names for their classes, and I was trying to come up with something a bit along those lines. I understand the origin of the term flagship, it was simply an attemped to make the ship class sound cool and interesting. Call them Heavy Command Ships if you like, it does not change much other then the name of the class.
Sokot Gallente Brute Force Algorithm	Posted - 2009.03.26 08:30:00 - [725] If these ships are designed to be able to take on capital class ships, how about a bonus, possibly for the fleet, that increases missile damage along with explosion radius? This would effectively become a potent weapon against capitals without increasing damage versus smaller targets... "He was quite mad and knew it very well, but being mad he did not care"
Soratah Amarr The Aegis Militia Aegis Militia	Posted - 2009.03.26 09:39:00 - [726] Lot of thought in this and well formatted. What would be the point of Command ships if these ships were fielded? Either Commandships will need to be re-designed or bonuses will need to be different to offer better support for certain aspects. How about giving them a special module they can activate "Battlefield Command Modules" they operate like the tactical reconfiguration modules. Reduce BS speed to 0, make immune to EWAR, lock speed and amount bonus + damage bonus, rep bonus. Loss of tracking (working exactly like tactical reconfig modules.) Apart from the obvious directing the battle and locking and helping other ships in the combat it could have several specialised bonuses to respective command modules and fleet bonus provider (e.g percentage boost to whatever.)
Ivan Zhuk	Posted - 2009.03.26 11:25:00 - [727] Ok sorry i didnt read through all 25 pages.... I really do like these ideas however my one problem is the theater command ship only gets to use 2 gang modules at once? isn't this worse than its fleet command ship partner?
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.03.26 18:26:00 - [728] These ships are not designed to solo against capital ships. They have a heavy tank and are able to keep the fleet, taking on a capital ship, alive for a longer period of time. These ships are supposed to be used in a fleet where they can put the maximum bonuses behind them and their supporting fleet. Though they will more then likely fight against capital ships, they are not going to be exclusively fighting them. So they need to be able to deal with both Capitals and small cruiser gangs with some effectiveness. This is not to say that they will be victorious against a HAC gang, but they will be able to stand more of a chance then if they were specialized against one group. I don't like the idea of specialty modules for specific ships. The concept seems a little backwards to me. If you are going to fly a command ship, why do you need a module that is critical to operation? Why not make it an integral part of the ship? I'm not saying this is a bad idea, I would just like the ships to give more options to pilots then "OMG you need this bit to be good n00bz". Also i think that that kind of module would only alienate the Command Ships even further from the Flagships. The Command Ships, as I see it, will still be a very viable option for PvP. They are smaller, faster, cheaper, have great tanks, and they are no slouch on DPS. The question comes down to this in a PvP fleet battle. Its not some much if there will be Flagships and Command Ships on the field, but who is the fleet commander and who is just bait. The Command Ships are still going to be a good platform for Cruiser/HAC/Battlecruiser roaming gangs. After all you fleet is as fast as the slowest ship. The reason the Theater Command Ships have one less active gang warfare link module is a balance issue. A person, can not remember who, pointed out that the Theater command ship was in effect using 4 modules at once, including its fleet bonus. He also noted the fact that the ships were almost identical in effects on a fleet if the only used 3 modules and no fleet bonus. So in order to prevent the Fleet Command Ships from becoming obsolete I reduced the effectiveness of the Theater Command Ship. The added benefit to the Theater Command Ship was it is now able to fit a full rack of weapons and the command links.
Iexo Peoa	Posted - 2009.03.27 06:23:00 - [729] Edited by: Iexo Peoa on 27/03/2009 06:24:03 Originally by: Balor Haliquin In the greater sense, Flagships are designed to help bridge the gulf between the sub-capital ships and the capital ships. Heh, while reading this, it kinda reminded me of(sounded exactly like) my argument for the implimentation of an Expanded Carrier Chain. All the same, you got my vote. Great idea, and would definately add some variety to combat both high-sec and low-sec, in offering a number of size-ranges available to battlefleets. Small battlefleets with command ships, large battlefleets with Flagships, and of course low-sec/0.0 battlefleets with their capital command ships. Awesomesauce in the making.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.03.27 19:43:00 - [730] Thanks for the support. I have not heard of your idea I'll have to check it out.
lech lizdian	Posted - 2009.04.06 22:09:00 - [731] ok for the dude that said this ship has no purpose... maybe you were correct before worm holes... but now you are dead wrong!!!!! mofoes i cant bring my titan into Worm hole space.... but i can bring in my BS's.... and the mini titan boost that these ships have is great for that purpose.... so now this ship has 3 great uses... 1. cheeper then a titan for those who cant afford one.... 2. can be used in high sec (wars might just be fun again) 3. WH space!!!!! yay! Please CCP make this ship..... its made out of "winsauce"
Brave SirRyan	Posted - 2009.04.17 04:29:00 - [732] Edited by: Brave SirRyan on 17/04/2009 04:30:50
Brave SirRyan	Posted - 2009.04.17 04:30:00 - [733] now it is time for this
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2009.04.17 04:35:00 - [734] I think you need to update your original post to help reflect that these ships are useful in wormholed systems as well. Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 6Apr09
Uglok	Posted - 2009.04.17 08:00:00 - [735] While I like the idea of a flag ship, I disagree with their incarnation on this thread. Currently it feels as if they're just upgraded versions of Command Ships, but why are they necessary? Command Ships already do a fine job, and these seem redundant. Perhaps if their bonuses could be more unique and not completely overwrite Command Ships, they'd be more acceptable. Also, a random question. Why is the Abaddon losing 2% damage bonus per level? It currently has 5%, but your idea has 3%.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.04.17 20:02:00 - [736] The Flagships are a bit more like a mix between the Command Ship and the Titans. Though they do have the command and control functions of the command ships they are significantly slower. They also can not fallow fast moving gangs very well. After all a gangs speed is determined by its slowest ship. These ships are more for gangs that can not be chased by the bigger capital ships and super capitals. Where the Command Ships bring speed and large tanks for their size. Flagships bring a the unique fleet bonus and the static hit points of a battleship. The Abaddon was not the only ship to get that nerf. If you look at the other ships in the line you will see that a lot of them do less damage then their stock counter parts. The reason for this is that someone (I cant remember who at this point) pointed out that these ships would be able to out tank and have the same DPS as a Marauder. So in order to make them more tank and less gank, they got a damage reduction. I wanted to prevent the ships from becoming the uber pvp/pve solo omgwin machines. Note that they only get to have all of their bonus active if they are in a fleet and giving the fleet the boost. Thanks for the heads up I will change the introduction post as soon as I run the new intro through a spelling checker.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.04.21 03:42:00 - [737] All right the intro is updated. Thanks for pointing that out.
Uglok	Posted - 2009.04.21 06:54:00 - [738] Originally by: Balor Haliquin Flagships The concept of this ship class is to make a larger evolution of the command ship. Instead of simply creating larger ones, the people in the forum thread and I have blended the bonuses and stats to make the ships more command oriented then straight up combat. Possessing a less powerful version of the Titans fleet bonuses, and the ability to fit and use warfare links, allows medium to large fleets the support they need to fight hard targets or fly unsupported by capital ships. Flagships are heavily tanked battleships the sacrifice their firepower for added fleet effectiveness. They are not a slouch on damage but are less effective at the task then their base versions. The advantage these bring to the battle field is simple. Fleets operating in space that restricts the use of capital ships, such as cyno-jammed space or wormholes, would be made more survivable. The assaulting of towers in high sec would also be made far easier. These ships are limited in how many warfare links they can use. And their agility and speed in space is far worse then the current Command Ships. Thus they are more of geared for larger engagements rather then small roaming gangs. Ship bonuses Ships have a slightly reduced version of their base ships bonuses. More often then not itÆs a reduction to their damage output rather then tank. This is for balance as to prevent the ships from taking over the role of mission runner or make the tier 3 battleships completely obsolete. They also recive a fleet bonus that only comes into effect when they are in a fleet and they are the assigned bonus ship. Other then that some of the ships have been modified to fit in their design forms, Khanid ships are missile throwers instead of laser boats for example. I've highlighted a few parts specifically to focus on. Lets begin. First, you claim for them to be a larger evolution of the command ship, but they are less effective than their base versions. Second, you claim that their reduced damage bonuses are in part to not wanting these to become the best mission running ship and preventing Tier 3 Battleships from becoming obsolete. Lets go over some of the problems with these two statements. First of all, Command Ships. Are they not superior in every way to their base ships? They can do more DPS, tank more damage, fly faster, and give more bonuses to their gang than their Tech 1 versions. Second, all Tech 2 ships tend to be an increase over the basic design, allowing them to high specialize in something they originally were intended to be. Third, all Tech 2 Battleships tend to be somewhat unpopular due to these deficiencies. While price tends to be a major factor, Marauders, which ideally should be the best "soloing" ship in the game, are instead rarely used by experienced players who prefer to fly the vastly superior Command Ship. Caldari especially prefer the Nighthawk over the Golem. While you do more DPS in the Golem, it is a ship that needs support or it isn't as effective, while a ship -designed- to -give- support is superior at soloing efficiency, such as the Nighthawk. People want an upgraded Tier 3 Battleship, and this isn't going to give that. Battlecruiser class and below tend to have the best Tech II ships since they're direct upgrades, and can often do their jobs more efficiently than any Tech II Battleship. Ask yourself why people would ever bother spending the 1 billion ISK to purchase this ship, and why they would want to fly them over a Command Ship, or even a Marauder, which seems to be a vast improvement over these ships. Especially for Gang Warfare, I would rather have a more mobile Command Ship buffing my group rather than a slow Flagship that would serve the same purpose, but be an easier target to destroy.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.04.22 00:37:00 - [739] Tech 2 battleships are not the huge uber machines compared to the smaller ship classes due to one very important reason. It is very easy to make a T2 battleships way more combat effective if you just copy and past the abilities of the small ships to them. The advantage to dealing with smaller ships id they do not have a lot of HP to burn through. Battleships start with a rather large amount of HP and can very quickly make the ships have capital ship level HP. They also put out a large amount of damage relitive to their size. So to prevent the T2 ships from becoming solo machines, which CCP has said they are dead set against, you have to make the T2 ships only slightly better. The reason the flagships are set up the way they are is to make them at once unique in their role and balanced in their abilities. They have to have a good tank or tank potential to ensure their survival. And they have to give the fleet something that the command ships don't. In that light they have a fleet bonus that is only shared by the Titans. From then on its ensuring that the ships do not trample over ships that are already in the game. The two that it has an immediate problem with are the Marauders and the Command Ships. The reason for Marauders is that it has to have a huge tank to survive PvP but cant out DPS the Marauders because that would render the Marauder class useless. Why bother with Marauder when you can have a more powerful and potent Flagship. To prevent this the Flagships have a reduced damage output. They still hit for a good amount but they are not going to out DPS Marauders and Battleships. Remember their first job is to survive and provide fleet bonuses. Everything els is a bonus to that. The Command Ships are a bit trickier to manage around. Both ships need to do the same thing but for different kinds of fleets. Command Ships are good tankers and have good close range combat capabilities. Granted there are exceptions to that rule but generaly they are not 75km or better shots. So the Flagships are potentialy much farther ranged then the Command Ships. The next part is tank, the command ships have awesome ability to active rep and keep the tank going against high DPS situations. But they lack the static HP to deal with DD and heavy fleet engagement. The Flagships mends this by having the ability to fit a huge buffer tank, or a good active tank. Flagships are, again, geared toward the larger fleet engagements. When it comes down to command bonuses is a little harder. The Fleet Command Ships can run 3 verses the Theater Command Ship's 2 links. However do not forget that the Theater Command Ships also get a fleet bonus. These ships are not ment to be solo machines. If they are not in a fleet they should be rather easy pickings. They have a good punch but they are not the highest damaging battleships, nor should they be. Their job is to provide bonuses and survive. They can not depend on their small size to save them so they have to get it done through raw HP. Giving them better DPS would make them way too powerful for the Battlefield.
Uglok	Posted - 2009.04.22 05:30:00 - [740] One key factor you seem to be forgetting in their comparison to Marauders is the fact that Marauders are allowed to use 4 turrets/launchers which do the damage of 8, while having 3 extra high slots for utility modules. While people would probably be quite annoyed with having to sacrifice one of their 8 high slots for utilities, the sheer fact that they have to have all 8 weapons to match the DPS of a Marauder is reason enough to give them the proper bonuses, and not make them weaker. Look at it this way, no other ship in the game has a 3% bonus to damage. It's all 5% to my knowledge. People will not be fitting 8 weapons to ships like these, when the bonuses they provide from other ships for fleet engagements will outweigh their own damage. But that doesn't mean if they're in a position where they can serve as "DPS", they should be weaker than other ships. Also the argument of "solo pwn mobiles" seems somewhat moot with the introduction of the Tech III Strategic Cruisers, which can already solo level 4 missions better than a Command Ship or Marauder. It's really scary to see this little Cruiser which can fly at 600 m/s to have a 1.6k tank.
Dxella	Posted - 2009.04.22 10:42:00 - [741] Vey nice Idea! Luv it. Tho i will have some training to do before !
Raff Barloh	Posted - 2009.04.22 12:23:00 - [742] I must say alot very very well ideas but tbh an [FLAGGSHIP] has to have ALOT more Shield/Armor than those which were postet at the 1st side - it should has the biggest Shield/Armor of all Battleclasships (even the Nightmare has more Shield than 9200 HP). So an [FLAGGSHIP] like Caldari should have like 15k or more Shield w/o Skills and the base resistanze would be (EM/Exp/Kin/Term) 25/62,5/55/40 (including an 5% Bonus Shieldresistenz Bonus per BS Level. I like the Idea that they would have an Rolebonus to their Racebonis (webbing/neut/scram/ECM), u know but you guys should stop thinking that Flaggships should have Advantages to their Weaposystems like RoF or DMG Bonus) nvm but that stays on BS. Also there should be a rule that only 1 of them can be in every Fleet and u must be set as Fleetbooster that Ganglinks take effect. cry if u want but Flaggships (if they come along) will be very expensive and it¦s sth for real skilled Players.
Luskaie Gallente defiant.	Posted - 2009.04.22 12:46:00 - [743] /signed, 100% agree and support this, make it happen CCP :)
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.04.23 05:25:00 - [744] Edited by: Balor Haliquin on 23/04/2009 05:29:56 At this point I am seriously considering doing an HP boost to all of the ships. Mathmaticly they have the same total number or HP as their base ships and it seems rather silly to call them heavy tankers when they might in reality not be any better then their base ships. I'll have to see how it balances out so don't expect anything soon. Nothing major just a bit of a boost to all HP. If you will notice that the ships that can use more then one command link (Theater Command Ship) may have the ability to fit a full rack of weapon systems, but they will be mixed type, as in turrets and missiles. That allows a pilot to commit some of the high slots to the needed job of warfare links. Also consider that I don't want the ships to become "You must fit this ship in this fasion or it is utter fail" ships. The ability of players to play around with the fitting and find a fit that they can fly to their own style is something that I really like in eve. Im not saying you point is not taken but I don't want to force pilots into a box with the promis of options and the confinement of reality. The Strategic Cruisers aside, I still want to make sure that this ship is balanced against its piers. It has to play in the realm of Tech 2 ships and thus must meet the balance between itself and them. I understand that the Marauder has its on unique foibles and issues, but you must understand that one has to work around the current mechanics with the new mechanics. I'm rather sure there is no way to prevent ships of the same class from joining the same fleet. Honestly the game takes care of the multiple stacked Flagship issue on its own. Consider that the bonuses do not stack, the system only takes the best of the bonuses and trickles them down. I'm not a fan of arbitrary limiters in games, and I see no reason to limit them in a fleet.
Inquisitor Berthez Make Love To War	Posted - 2009.05.11 01:41:00 - [745] bump So what's the status on this project? ccp picking this up already? I need something new to pimp in. Pimp my NavPoc
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.05.11 21:19:00 - [746] I have been playing around with the idea of a small HP boost. Want to make their static HP a bit more for durability tanking. Right now I'm just playing around with some numbers to see what they get me. Unfortunately , i have to math out all the variations i come up with as to make sure they are all balanced. The ones I hate the most are the Caldari ships. I want to make sure they have great HP but not so that they can be passive tanked like no ones buisness. So that means trying to figure out what they would do for a passive tank if fully fitted out. Its going to take me a bit longer to work it all out. But expect around 1250 more HP spread unevenly on the Armor, Hull, and Shields.
Hawk Firestorm	Posted - 2009.05.12 02:36:00 - [747] I'd perhaps put this one in the Sub captital group I proposed in the Escort carrier thread maybe. Demi capital if you like that uses many of the skills for Capital ships but bout half way.
Lancard Order of Anarchy	Posted - 2009.05.12 07:06:00 - [748] I like the idea of Tii Tier 3 BS. Let's keep the idea developing. The only feedback I can offer is make sure it's possible to passive armor tank the Tii Abbadon. I have only briefly scanned the posts made thus far so it's possible that this issue was already addressed.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.05.13 06:38:00 - [749] The majority of the ships are very passive tankable. I have noted, however, that they could be better. I want them surviving the encounter a bit better then their base ships. So its to that direction that I'm trying to figure out how much to boost their HP. Its not going to be spectacular. 1250 HP spread not so evenly over the shields, armor, and hull.
Korell Nova	Posted - 2009.05.13 14:28:00 - [750] ok so we now have t3 why dont you take your idea and run with it using subsystems for differing bonuses and us having completely new skins for once not just rehashing/repainting old ones
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.05.16 03:15:00 - [751] It seems that CCP has its own ideas on what T3 is and means. I have no clue what or how the method behind them works. Likewise if anything, they will have modules that will give the battleship a subsystem with ability to use gang warfare links. And even then I think the T3 Battleships would be even more hidiously expensive then the current T3 cruisers. I think sticking with the original concept of Tech 2 Tier 3 Battleships is very sound. If yoiu think the current designs would be expensive. Consider them being tech 3 and then you have a base ship costing nearly 3 billion isk.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.05.23 18:43:00 - [752] Edited by: Balor Haliquin on 23/05/2009 18:44:05 AMARR Name: Requiem Hull: Abaddon Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Carthum Conglomerate Carthum ships are the very embodiment of the Amarrian warfare philosophy. Possessing sturdy armor and advanced weapons systems, they provide a nice mix of offense and defense. On the other hand, their electronics and shield systems tend to be rather limited. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Energy Turret damage per level, 5% bonus armor Resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Capacitor Recharge Rate per level, 5% bonus to Large Energy Turret capacitor cost per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 20% bonus to Tracking Link and Tracking Computer effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 4 mid / 8 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 20700 CPU: 530 Hard points: 8 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 6850 Shield Resistances: 0/65/52.5/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 9300 Armor Resistances: 50/35/37.5/35 Hull HP: 8200 Velocity: 89m/s Drone Bay: 75m^3s Drone Bandwidth: 75 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6375 Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 80km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Radar 22 Signature Radius: 480m Scanner Resolution: 85 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Fusion 8 Prerequisite Skills Primary Skills Required > Amarr Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Amarr Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V --> Warfare Link Specialization IV ---> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Command Ships IV -> Heavy Assault Ships IV --> Assault Ships IV ---> Engineering V ---> Mechanics V ---> Spaceship Command III -> Advanced Weapons Upgrades V --> Weapon Upgrades V Name: Vanquisher Hull: Abaddon Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Khanid Innovations In addition to robust electronics systems, the Khanid Kingdom's ships possess advanced armor alloys capable of withstanding a great deal of punishment. Generally eschewing the use of turrets, they tend to gear their vessels more towards close-range missile combat. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Torpedo explosion velocity per level, 5% bonus to armor Resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Capacitor Recharge Rate per level, 3% bonus to effectiveness of Armored Warfare Links module per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 5 mid / 7 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 19500 CPU: 530 Hard points: 1 Turret/6 Launcher Shield HP: 7650 Shield Resistances: 0/65/52.5/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8600 Armor Resistances: 50/35/37.5/35 Hull HP: 8100 Velocity: 89m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3s Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6375 Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 80km Maximum Lock: 8 Sensor Strength: Radar 22 Signature Radius: 480m Scanner Resolution: 85 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Fusion 8 Prerequisite Skills Primary Skills Required > Amarr Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Amarr Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V --> Warfare Link Specialization IV ---> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Logistics IV -> Spaceship Command III -> Signature Analysis V > Multitasking I -> Targeting V --> Electronics I -> Long Range Targeting V --> Electronics II > Electronics V
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.05.23 18:44:00 - [753] CALDARI Name: Tsunami Hull: Rokh Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Kaalakiota As befits one of the largest weapons manufacturers in the known world, Kaalakiota's ships are very combat focused. Favoring the traditional Caldari combat strategy, they are designed around a substantial number of weapons systems, especially missile launchers. However, they have rather weak armor and structure, relying more on shields for protection. Cladari Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Missile Launcher rate of fire per level, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Points per level, 5% bonus to Kinetic Missile damage per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 20% bonus to ECCM and Remote ECCM effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 7 mid / 5 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 13500 CPU: 750 Hard points: 0 Turret/7 Launcher Shield HP: 9550 Shield Resistances: 0/50/52.5/35 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6600 Armor Resistances: 50/10/37.5/60 Hull HP: 7700 Velocity: 89m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Prerequisite Skills Primary Skill Required > Caldari Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Caldari Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V --> Warfare Link Specialization IV ---> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Command Ships IV -> Heavy Assault Ships IV --> Assault Ships IV ---> Engineering V ---> Mechanics V ---> Spaceship Command III -> Advanced Weapons Upgrades V --> Weapon Upgrades V Name: Bastion Hull: Rohk Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Ishukone Most of the recent designs off their assembly line have provided for a combination that the Ishukone name is becoming known for great long-range capabilities and shield systems unmatched anywhere else. Caldari Battleship Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range per level, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Siege Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 14900 CPU: 750 Hard points: 7 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 9550 Shield Resistances: 0/50/52.5/35 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6950 Armor Resistances: 50/10/37.5/60 Hull HP: 7350 Velocity: 89m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 8 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Prerequisite Skills Primary Skills Required > Caldari Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Caldari Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V --> Warfare Link Specialization IV ---> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Logistics IV -> Spaceship Command III -> Signature Analysis V > Multitasking I -> Targeting V --> Electronics I -> Long Range Targeting V --> Electronics II > Electronics V
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.05.23 18:47:00 - [754] GALLENTE Name: Athena Hull: Hyperion Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Roden Shipyards Unlike most Gallente ship manufacturers, Roden Shipyards tends to favor missiles over drones and their ships are generally faster than other Gallente ships in their class. They generally have a substantial amount of hull modification options but limited electronic systems. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Hybrid Turrets damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Armor Hit Points per level, 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret falloff per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 12.5% bonus to Sensor Booster and Remote Sensor Booster effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 5 mid / 7 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 15650 CPU: 570 Hard points: 8 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 7100 Shield Resistances: 0/50/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8550 Armor Resistances: 50/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 9200 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Prerequisite Skills Primary Skills Required > Gallente Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Gallente Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V --> Warfare Link Specialization IV ---> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Command Ships IV -> Heavy Assault Ships IV --> Assault Ships IV ---> Engineering V ---> Mechanics V ---> Spaceship Command III -> Advanced Weapons Upgrades V --> Weapon Upgrades V Name: Artemis Hull: Hyperion Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: CreoDron As the largest drone developer and manufacturer in space, CreoDron has a vested interest in drone carriers. While sacrificing relatively little in the way of defensive capability, the Artimus can chew its way through surprisingly strong opponents - provided, of course, that the pilot uses top-of-the-line CreoDron drones. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 10% bonus to drone Hit Points and Damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Armor Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Information Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 14150 CPU: 570 Hard points: 6 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 7100 Shield Resistances: 0/50/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8800 Armor Resistances: 50/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8950 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 175m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 125 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 8 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Prerequisite Skills Primary Skills Required > Gallente Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Gallente Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V --> Warfare Link Specialization IV ---> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Logistics IV -> Spaceship Command III -> Signature Analysis V > Multitasking I -> Targeting V --> Electronics I -> Long Range Targeting V --> Electronics II > Electronics V
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.05.23 18:48:00 - [755] MINMATAR Name: Lahar Hull: Maelstrom Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Boundless Creations Boundless Creation's ships are based on the Brutor tribe's philosophy of warfare: simply fit as much firepower onto your ship as possible. Defense systems and electronics arrays therefore tend to take a back seat to sheer annihilative potential. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Projectile Turret damage per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Signature Radius reduction per level, 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret falloff per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 20% bonus to Target Painter effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 18700 CPU: 610 Hard points: 8 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 8400 Shield Resistances: 15/50/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 7750 Armor Resistances: 75/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7200 Velocity: 94m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Prerequisite Skills Primary Skills Required > Minmatar Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Minmatar Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V --> Warfare Link Specialization IV ---> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Command Ships IV -> Heavy Assault Ships IV --> Assault Ships IV ---> Engineering V ---> Mechanics V ---> Spaceship Command III -> Advanced Weapons Upgrades V --> Weapon Upgrades V Name: Halberd Hull: Maelstrom Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Core Complexion Core Complexion's ships are unusual in that they favor electronics and defense over the "lots of guns" approach traditionally favored by the Minmatar. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Signature Radius reduction per level, 3% bonus to Skirmish Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 High / 7 Mid / 5 Low / 2 rig Power Grid: 18100 CPU: 610 Hard points: 6 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 8400 Shield Resistances: 15/50/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 7750 Armor Resistances: 75/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7200 Velocity: 94m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 8 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Prerequisite Skills Primary Skills Required > Minmatar Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Minmatar Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V --> Warfare Link Specialization IV ---> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Logistics IV -> Spaceship Command III -> Signature Analysis V > Multitasking I -> Targeting V --> Electronics I -> Long Range Targeting V --> Electronics II > Electronics V
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.05.23 18:54:00 - [756] All the ships got their hit points reballanced so that they were inline with their respective base ships and then had 600 HP added to them. This should make them a bit more survivable. Debating weather or not to remove the Fleet Command skill requirement for the Frontline command ships so that they have the same training time as the Theater Command Ship. But that can be discussed.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.06.07 04:05:00 - [757] bump
Commander Predator Kinky Killing Kleptomaniacs Death Is Everywhere	Posted - 2009.06.08 02:20:00 - [758] well 26 pages is a bit much for me to read but, if it hasnt been said already maybe they should be uber spider tanking battleships? i mean all we got for logistics really is logistics ships and carriers, maybe 100% damage bonus, for extra high slots, cpu useage decrease in shield transporters for the caldari/minnie ones, and powergrid useage decrease for gallente/amarr ones, plus huge decrease in cap usage and maybe double/triple the range.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.06.08 02:57:00 - [759] There is a forum thread running around, i cant remember where it is anymore, about battleships sized logistic ships. I think that is what you are looking for. These ships are not logistic ships in the same sence. They are for fleet bonuses and survivability.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.07.05 07:13:00 - [760] A small bump. Please feel free to comment on what you think of the ships.
Markus Reese Caldari	Posted - 2009.07.05 07:57:00 - [761] Being somebody who is training for command ships, specifically for fleet command, I would love to see something like this. As nice as the command ships are, it would be much nicer to see battleship grade version of current command tank ability.
Bloody2k Gallente SCHWARZSCHILD.	Posted - 2009.07.06 17:39:00 - [762] Edited by: Bloody2k on 06/07/2009 17:41:09 Edited by: Bloody2k on 06/07/2009 17:39:59 Great Idea, I follow this discussion for some weeks. I really hope, that CCP will make this ship real!!! But in my opinion some special ability would be nice. Maybee a Link to other Command Ships for boost. In this Version ist is just a big Command Ship. If there is just one in Fleet it must be a motivation to fly it as you are the Fleetcommander. Tactical Analysys...somthing else... In my opinion it is to restrained for this powerful role! Make it awesome Ein Alfa Romeo ist kein Auto, sondern eine Lebenseinstellung.
Private Marcus	Posted - 2009.07.06 20:24:00 - [763] This Topic is dicussed so well until now, bonuses, hp, resists, skills: everything of these atributes are discussed. but what about bulding costs? inventing mechanics?
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.07.06 21:53:00 - [764] The issue with trying to make them more awesome is one of balance. Honestly I think the automatic fleet bonuses are more then enough to make them awesome, let alone the massive passive tanks they will be able to have. So it comes down to what can the ships do more that is not game breaking. Frankly I'm running short on ides. I was thinking about making them more resistant to ECM and Sensor Dampeners. That way a fleet commander can have a better chance of locking and calling primaries. But considering what the Gallente version will be getting (Information warfare links and a sensor booster bonus) that would make some ships easily into solo win machines. So it really some down to what you want to do with them and making sure that they do not run amock in other areas. As they are right now they are good basic battleships with a heavy emphasis on command and control. So they have to do two jobs on the battlefield. Provide fleet bonuses and tank like their life depends on it, which it does. As for the annyoing bit about invention and manufaturing? Well, admitedly I have never done these things in the game. So i am rather lost on the method behind the madness. But I am researching on how its done and what is required. I hope to have a BPC/BPO list up soon(tm).
Bloody2k Gallente SCHWARZSCHILD.	Posted - 2009.07.06 23:03:00 - [765] But be honest, which real FC would decide for a Flagship? It will be the fist Target in every imaginable situation! Titan Bonus and a tank of a Battleship would not be not enougth to use this ship! Hard to imagine (instead of the Eve "balance") but if it is voulunarable before all the other ships explode, it would not be a opinion between coverto ops or flagship!!! Sorry! Ein Alfa Romeo ist kein Auto, sondern eine Lebenseinstellung.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.07.07 05:10:00 - [766] Its very hard to get the tank of something like the Flagships to the point where they are going to be survivable in large fleet engagements yet not be so over tanked that small gangs can never kill them. One way is forcing active tanks, which can be countered by energy neutralizers. The other is passive which simple firepower can overcome eventualy. So it comes down to haveing massive amount of EHP or having a nice and high DPS tank. Both of which are plausible with these ships.
Lijhal Native Freshfood	Posted - 2009.07.07 07:12:00 - [767] Originally by: Balor Haliquin CALDARI Name: Tsunami Hull: Rokh Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Kaalakiota As befits one of the largest weapons manufacturers in the known world, Kaalakiota's ships are very combat focused. Favoring the traditional Caldari combat strategy, they are designed around a substantial number of weapons systems, especially missile launchers. However, they have rather weak armor and structure, relying more on shields for protection. Cladari Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Missile Launcher rate of fire per level, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Points per level, 5% bonus to Kinetic Missile damage per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 20% bonus to ECCM and Remote ECCM effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 7 mid / 5 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 13500 CPU: 750 Hard points: 0 Turret/7 Launcher ... the cpu output of the Tsunami seems to be a little bid too low Lets say you want to fit the Tsunami with following modules: Tsunami Ballistic Control System II /40cpu Ballistic Control System II /40cpu Ballistic Control System II /40cpu Power Diagnostic System II /15cpu Damage Control II /30cpu ---------------- 165cpu X-Large Shield Booster II /220cpu Invulnerability Field II /44cpu Invulnerability Field II /44cpu Photon Scattering Field II /44cpu Warp Disruptor II /44cpu Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 /40cpu Large shield Extender II /46cpu ---------------------- 492cpu Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo /66cpu Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo /66cpu Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo /66cpu Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo /66cpu Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo /66cpu Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo /66cpu Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo /66cpu Siege Warfare Link - Active Shielding /50cpu ------------------- 512 cpu So, you have 165cpu (lows) + 492cpu (mids) +512cpu (highs) results into 1169 cpu needed You have 750 base cpu * 1,25 from electronic V, results to 937,5 cpu 937,5 1,1 (Co-CPU II) = 1031,25cpu total, so drop that PDU II (-15cpu) for a Co-CPU II ---- 1154 (need) vs 1031,25 (output) 1031,25 1,1 (2nd CO-CPU II)= 1134,375cpu total, so drop th DC II (-30cpu) for another CO-CPU II ---- 1124cpu (need) vs 1134,375cpu (output) with 2x CO-CPU II So you need 2 CPU II Upgrades to fit a proper small gang setup, which isnt very productive if you loose essential modules for cpu upgrades conclusion, increase the base cpu output up to 10% (825 base cpu), then you need only 1 CPU upgrade for the above fitting and not 2 btw, good work and nice idea ... hopefully ccp will implement these ships into eve /thumps up!
Lastrites	Posted - 2009.07.07 07:24:00 - [768] I think having t2 tier 3 BS`s is awesome, I also want t2 tier 2 BC like drake/Harb/Myrm/Can t2`s But also I wanted to add I think all flagships should have a 1+Warp Strength so they cant be held at 25 km with dists. Also I forget what speeds you had them at but they should have 15% more agility/speed do to the fact they are "Race" Chassis from the ground up and not added to or modded t1`s, But brand new custom style ships.
Lastrites	Posted - 2009.07.07 07:35:00 - [769] Originally by: Balor Haliquin Its very hard to get the tank of something like the Flagships to the point where they are going to be survivable in large fleet engagements yet not be so over tanked that small gangs can never kill them. quote] Originally by: Balor Haliquin Its very hard to get the tank of something like the Flagships to the point where they are going to be survivable in large fleet engagements yet not be so over tanked that small gangs can never kill them. Maybe this is stupid but Bal what about making a bonus to the FS`s damage resists for every ship that is targeting it. 1=5% dam resist bonus for each enemy ship over 3 targeting FS, and -10% for 1 v 1. so if it fought 5 guys it would be way less than 50 in dam resist and would give it good tank in big fights at least long enough for your side to kill theres. what you think poke holes in it and see if you can expound on it. I always though titans and POS`s should have that. Reward small groups of brave souls who take these on.
AngryMax Gallente Executable Inc	Posted - 2009.07.07 07:37:00 - [770] fantastic idea gj man signed
Kail Storm	Posted - 2009.07.07 08:43:00 - [771] Originally by: AngryMax fantastic idea gj man signed I hope you talkin about my "more enemy targeting more dam resist" but your probably not ...If you are let me know I wanna push this idea alot about diffrant ships /titans even roq because they get gangbanged. Let me know
Grek Forto Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2009.07.07 12:04:00 - [772] Originally by: Lastrites Maybe this is stupid but Bal what about making a bonus to the FS`s damage resists for every ship that is targeting it. 1=5% dam resist bonus for each enemy ship over 3 targeting FS, and -10% for 1 v 1. so if it fought 5 guys it would be way less than 50 in dam resist and would give it good tank in big fights at least long enough for your side to kill theres. what you think poke holes in it and see if you can expound on it. I always though titans and POS`s should have that. Reward small groups of brave souls who take these on. But also disadvantage large groups. I'm against blobbing, but it's a viable tactic to have more ships then the enemy and one should not be punished for it. Grek Forto Yarring Blog
McDaddy Pimp Minmatar	Posted - 2009.07.07 13:03:00 - [773] Yay! Even player ship designers manage to make Minmatar having the worst BS. Sig reduction where most of their frigs/crusiers are shield tanked? More target painter crap? go minnie!! Other BSs is pretty good though
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.07.07 21:38:00 - [774] Yah I have to say that I really don't like how the Minmatar one turned out. It has the lowest passive tank potential, but can have one of the highest active tanks. The fleet bonus is kinda lame, But for small gangs, especialy ones running with MWDs and shield extenders, it may make the difference between a victory and defeat. As a small sig radius will reduce the incoming damage. If you have any ideas for changes let me know. The huge issue is how to improve the Minmatar ships and not make them win boats. The issue with the CPU on the Tsunami has been noted and will be fixed. Thanks for pointing that out. I think what might of happened was I put the wrong CPU on the ship to begin with. A bonus to reduce incoming damage the more ships are targeting the ship is rather broken. It basically makes the Flagship a solo ship verses large gangs. Because the damage reduction becomes so great the more people you have attacking the ship that the damage becomes almost non exsistant. The resistance bonuses do just fine for the job. Besides that, all the flagships have higher resistances on their hulls to reflect their tech level. Good idea but unfortunately eve is full of people looking for ways to win better. The ships do not need to be harder to tackle. No other T2 combat ship has that bonus, I really don't see why the flagships should suddenly be harder to scramble. The ships are no faster then the base models. An agility bonus seems a little strange for the ships. Considering they are just as lumbering as their fellow battleships. And as far as im thinking of them and as far as i know how T2 works, Tech 2 ships are their base versions that have been gutted and reworked with high tech gear. Then giving a nice new paint job to match. They are really not 'from the ground up' new ships. As far as I understand the fluff, that is.
Kail Storm	Posted - 2009.07.07 22:02:00 - [775] But also disadvantage large groups. I'm against blobbing, but it's a viable tactic to have more ships then the enemy and one should not be punished for it. I totally agree its viable, but for this ship and other special ones to balance the "50 ships target him and pop him" i think this is best ive heard so far.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.07.08 00:29:00 - [776] To be honest there is no way of garenteeing a ship will survive a blob encounter. Even dreadnought have gone down in 30 seconds to withering firepower. Just remember that the ships have to be hard to kill and nor imposible. There will be, more then likely, some form of logistics on the field and they will more then likely have this ship put on their watch list. So if there is enough firepower to insta-pop this ship when fully kitted out and fitted like a no tomorrow. Then no amount of super tanking bonuses would have saved it.
Kail Storm	Posted - 2009.07.08 02:52:00 - [777] I dont wanna save it, i think they should die but a ship that special to be the flagship of the fleet would have not just t2 upgrades. And if it was the war winner you have to make it super hard for blobs to kill it and reward smaller strike groups to do so. If it was literally harder to kill it with 15 ships than 5 id like it better. Throughout history flagships have always died because they were over confident and it never was a blob of guys but a single old bi-plane and 2 ships for the Bizmark, a single combatant from the HMS Hood, and a single divebomber did in the yamato. Since these "super BS`s FS`s were designed for all out war and to survive almost anything its only natural IMO tat there weakness be a small flotilla of skilled surgical assasains. Also I agree t2 ships are modded t1`s but for a huge space corp to build a FS, it would be made of lighter materials smaller tech etc from the ground up, even though we had the same Iowa class BS in the us navy the missouri still was built from the ground up differantly from her sisters, but a btetter example is the Enterprise carrier it had all custom guns heavy armoured plate etc. My main point is make the enemy have to think and time out the battle not throw 100 ships at you, I think that is balanced...Also even if it had 92% resists on shieldswith enough ships it would pp fast hell its only got 9k shields. I thnk this ship shopuld be the biggest survivor there is a big bro to the command ship...They dont do to much DPS but there tank is godly.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.07.08 04:46:00 - [778] Well as of right now they are more vulnerable to a flight of Stealth Bombers, then they are verses larger ships. As it is there is more then likely no way of making a mechanic such as increased resistances verses number of ships targeting with out bringing in super high lag into the fleet fight. Because the server would have to calculate all the resistances and numb of ships targeting actively and on the fly. The best way to do it is to boost resistances and or passive HP. Which for the most part the ships already have. You are looking at ships that with max skills could potentialy get into the low 400,000 effective hit point range. And that is a pure guess from what I know of fitting and resistances. As a point in fact: Bismark was disabled by the torpedo and shelled by 2 battleships, 2 cruisers and a carriers and then scuttled. Yamato was killed after 2 waves of dive bombers and torpedo planes attacked it (380 planes total). Hood, a battlecruiser, was killed after volley number 4 and a very very very lucky strike.
Bloody2k Gallente SCHWARZSCHILD.	Posted - 2009.07.20 15:28:00 - [779] Give the Flagship a special ability!!! Ship Ability 500 HP/resi ect. per fleet member...so it would be easy to kill in a small fleet and hard to kill in a big fleet....so the enemy gang first have to weak the fleet, to break the tank of the flagship. So it would make sense to use this ship!!! Signature needs to be EVE related, please change. ~Weatherman
Seishi Maru Ministry of War	Posted - 2009.07.20 15:57:00 - [780] Originally by: Bloody2k Give the Flagship a special ability!!! Ship Ability 500 HP/resi ect. per fleet member...so it would be easy to kill in a small fleet and hard to kill in a big fleet....so the enemy gang first have to weak the fleet, to break the tank of the flagship. So it would make sense to use this ship!!! problem..this is a encourage blobbing ship. something I doubt CCP would like. But we do really need some ships that can withstand Doomsdays more easily. How about a special ability.. ships under wing of this ship get +30% resistance against DD of a specific type. This way most fleets woudl be able to have 3 of the 4 types "covered under a 30% umbrella". An interesting extra tactical decision wich titan to deply (now that they are as common as dreads were 2 years ago).
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.07.20 18:50:00 - [781] If its about making smaller ships doomsday proof, I'm rather afraid to say that under battleships there are only a few ships that can manage that feat. And the issue is that a 30% bonus to resistances verses a full skilled doomsday is still going to mean that they are dead. I think the doomsday issue is something meant for a defence field cruiser or something like that. As for the HP bonus for more ships in fleet, I have to agree. It could easily be used for a fleet of 200 ships making themselves impossible to kill. And of course the only way to kill them would be a 300 man fleet. And so on and so on. Blob warfare is here to stay, it is a viable tactic how ever unfair it may seem.
Bloody2k Gallente SCHWARZSCHILD.	Posted - 2009.07.21 10:44:00 - [782] Edited by: Bloody2k on 21/07/2009 10:45:37 What I mean is not that each Ship in Fleet gets the HP Bonus. What I mean is that just the Flagship will get more HP/Resi, the more Ships in Fleets are. So the Enemy first have to get down the fleet to weak the flagship(and theyr bonis)! Signature needs to be EVE related, please change. ~Weatherman
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.07.21 20:19:00 - [783] Right bu think of this. If the fleet was made up of a majority a flagships, and they all had this bonus. Then you would have a fleet that has capital level hit points with the maneuverability of a battleship fleet. Just pointing out how your idea can be exploited.
Bloody2k Gallente SCHWARZSCHILD.	Posted - 2009.07.21 21:22:00 - [784] I was of the opinion, that only 1 Flagship in fleet is allowed. Signature needs to be EVE related, please change. ~Weatherman
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.07.21 21:28:00 - [785] There is not way currently in the game mechanics to prevent more then one ships type of the fleet. So it is possible for multiple flagships to be in the same fleet.
Bloody2k Gallente SCHWARZSCHILD.	Posted - 2009.07.21 21:33:00 - [786] Crazy...it is not possible? May you give them a parameter 1 and all other ships 0. and max allowed value in gang is 1. That is not possible...but it is possible to insert 2000+ WH systems...? absolutly crazy. Signature needs to be EVE related, please change. ~Weatherman
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.07.22 01:19:00 - [787] To be fair, I would be rather annoyed if suddenly ships were limited in a fleet. I like the fact that I'm not limited in any arbitrary way in what I can fly dependent on what other people brought into the fleet or system. The more rules of engagment I have to deal with, the less I like something.
Markus Reese Caldari	Posted - 2009.07.22 04:36:00 - [788] Been a while since I have been in this thread, whoo. Well, first off, I recommend everybody read the brainstorm about how to reduce blob mechanics. While blobbing is viable, it certainly isn't fun. Specially with spies etc. As for the resistance/ship bonus, is an easy way to encorporate. "Ship receives xxxxx bonus when asigned the Fleet Booster" Can have more than one in the fleet, but only one at the time receives the defence bonus, or a greater bonus depending on which booster it is asigned to.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.07.23 04:39:00 - [789] While an interesting idea. I'm not sure I want the flagship to become so uber tanked that it ends up being the fist in and last out in a fleet. As in I see a flagship and go after all the easy to kill targets first. That way I can waste all the time in the world hammering the flagship into nothing. And in all honesty I think the ship should stay within the bounds of the current ship setups. Even the new tech 3 does little to rock the boat as far as bonus mechanics go. And I am willing to guess that it because the current mechanic works really well. That being said here is my idea of what the Amarr Blueprint Originals/Copies might look like. Blueprint Orginal/Copy AMARR Requiem Blueprint ORIGINAL Skill Requirement Amarrian Starship Engineering IV > Science V > Mechanics V Battleship Construction IV > Cruiser Construction IV -> Mechanics III -> Frigate Construction IV --> Mechanics I --> Industry II Industry V Mechanical Engineering IV > Science V > Mechanics V Bill of Materials Antimatter Reactor Unit [3600] Abaddon [1] Construction Blocks [405] Fusion Thruster [1824] Linear Shield Emitters [4290] Morphite [925] Nanoelectrical Microprocessor [1345] Radar Sensor Cluster [1202] Tesseract Capacitor Unit [2109] Tungsten Carbide Armor Plate [8230] Vanquisher Blueprint ORIGINAL Skill Requirement Amarrian Starship Engineering IV > Science V > Mechanics V Battleship Construction IV > Cruiser Construction IV -> Mechanics III -> Frigate Construction IV --> Mechanics I --> Industry II Industry V Mechanical Engineering IV > Science V > Mechanics V Bill of Materials Antimatter Reactor Unit [2950] Abaddon [1] Construction Blocks [405] Fusion Thruster [1690] Linear Shield Emitters [5125] Morphite [925] Nanoelectrical Microprocessor [1867] Radar Sensor Cluster [1202] Tesseract Capacitor Unit [1978] Tungsten Carbide Armor Plate [7542]
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2009.07.23 06:01:00 - [790] blobbing has to go down into the causes of it happening, the so called numbers games, there really arent that many 'force' multipliers that would help out either. I doubt these ships are not the answer to such. If i wasnt so busy on my SOE idea i would work on making a new system that would reduce the need to blob. Basically it has to do with objectvies that you wouldnt bother sending a blob against but it still a viable target to go after, something smaller strike groups could go after without so much attention paving the way for the larger blobs. Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 17JUL09
Iron Cog	Posted - 2009.07.23 06:05:00 - [791] Edited by: Iron Cog on 23/07/2009 06:06:26 Im impressed with the devotion you all have put toward this concept and i for one would like to see a true command ship, not just a small-gang booster. I think the required skills are off a bit tho, as well as some of the bonuses the ships receive. I think that Fleet Commander IV be required. As with most T2 items you have to have the primary at IV. I think the bonus should be dependent on the Skill level of the required new skill(which you have dubbed flagships, but i think more appropriately should be called Navy Commander). i.e. a 3% bonus to all command ships boosting abilities in fleet, Changing the role of the ship from being primary booster to a booster of the boosters. This would keep the command ships currently in game from being left to collect dust in the hangers, not to mention making it less of a target and more appealing for an FC to sit in. Anyways just some ideas, hopefully you all will take these ideas and refine them and incorporate them. Will keep reading :)
Markus Reese Caldari	Posted - 2009.07.23 06:17:00 - [792] Edited by: Markus Reese on 23/07/2009 06:18:12 Boost to boosters, now that could be interesting. As can be seen in all variant eve classes, one thing ccp has kept is that a larger ship does not displace it's smaller brethern, ie dictors vs hictors. So The idea of this ship boosting the bonuses of command ships, could be useful, or possibly a reverse booster. Say ship in wing applies it's bonuses to other wings. Something to help reduce command breakdown if fleet booster tree gets disrupted. Would be nice to bring the command ships into battle, have it work so it only applies to boosters on grid maybe?
HeliosGal	Posted - 2009.07.23 08:47:00 - [793] arent the flagships in the database meant to be the new tech 2 carriers with pilotable frigates that launch from a mini ship bay ?
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.07.23 18:14:00 - [794] Well there are some great force multipliers out there. And many people have complained about how overpowering they are and they have all been slowly ground down. You might remember the old Curse and Falcon, they could single handedly chance the course of a battle just by jamming the right ship or draining the right ship absolutely dry. The current big force multiplier is are the Titans, they have the ability to simply negate an enemy fleet. And in all honesty, the force multiplier in the fleet is usually the ship that the enemy was ever equipped to deal with. But that gets into an argument about economy of force. The Falcon and Curse were nerfed primarily because they had the ability to render any ship completely useless, so in effect they became the much feared solo pwn machines of lore. When it comes to 'blob' warfare its something that no one likes but it going to be here to stay. Any way that I can think of the get rid of blob warfare either does not get rid of it in the end or makes the game into something that I don't think any of us would enjoy. the argument should not be how to get rid of blob warfare, but rather how to change it to make it a bit more dynamic. As it is I rather enjoy the few big blob battles that I have been in. They were not everyone piling in on one target, it was more like 5 100 man battles across the system. As for strike teams? Well they already exsist in the game. They just need a bit of refining on the ships that are meant for them and people need to start learning how to use them. These are of course the recon gangs with a Black ops a support. The Flagship is a place holder name for these ships. It sounded fancy and neat at the time, but I'm seriously debating calling them Heavy Command Ships. I just happen to like the sound of Flagships better. The skill book 'Flagships' is in the database and used to have the description 'Allows the piloting of capital command carriers, can not be trained on a trial account' but since then has lost its description to my knowledge. And no they were never meant to be ships that could have people dock in them and fly fighters out of them. That was a player idea from about a year ago. I like the idea of a super booster, but I'm not sure how it would work. Let me play around with the idea and see what I can come up with.
Markus Reese Caldari	Posted - 2009.07.24 03:34:00 - [795] I agree, blobbing is here to stay, but I would like to see a blob as a tactical choice more than the norm. Something to make it plausible for outnumbered to win instead of a station camp. On topic though, The flagship could say offer something not seen in eve yet, some sort of modification to your overview or tactical overlay. An extra highlight that you can colour much like your starmap, the ship icons for the dps they are dealing, etc. Just a thought. Mainly because usually the flagship is co-ordinating battles and the role of this would be as the FC but also to get into battle, not offer bonus from a pos shield.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.08.08 20:47:00 - [796] I really cant think of anything that would be at once useful to the fleet or specifically the fleet commander, and not be sevearly game breaking. If anything a module where you could zoom in on any member of you fleet no matter where he is in the system so you can see what is going on yourself. Or have ships in you fleet display on the system map. But again those are things that I think should be avalible to anyone in the game. Not just to the fleet commander. Maybe as a new set of warfare links. One to allow you to zoom in on any member of you fleet no matter where they are in the system, one to let you see everyone on the system map, and possible one that will sound off alarms to you and anyone below you in the command structure as to when someone is being attacked or a probe is detected. Other then that i really cant think of anything that a single unique modules would be useful for.
Spyker NL	Posted - 2009.08.09 13:17:00 - [797] i would buy 1 of those in aheartbeat.. however. i would suggest thinking up some new gang link modules and maybe make it for fleets upto an ammount of members , so you get better bonusses then say a damnation or nighthawk. but only for a gang with a seize of less then xx that way when you go out with a group, you can ask the FC what you want me with flagship or command. keeping both shiptypes usefull
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.08.09 16:13:00 - [798] I would point out that asking that question is still a very good question to ask. Note that the Command Ships are fast and nimble compared to the much larger and slower Flagships. Also not that the Fleet Command Ship (CS) can use 3 warfare links at once rather then the Theater Command Ship (FS) ability to use only 2. Also the Command Ship is probably much more apt to run with Heavy Assault Ship gangs and that size because it can keep up. The Flagship will more then likely run with larger ship gangs like sniper battleship gangs. I'm thinking about making a thread that is dedicated to some new Warfare Link modules. But I have to to really think about what ones and how they will effect the game.
Spyker NL	Posted - 2009.08.09 19:23:00 - [799] your getting me wrong you should have links that give out better bonusses then say normal CS with 3 but different types of bonusses. with a maximum gang seize so a bigger fleet needs to either have multiple of these or a regular CS. if this thing cant give better bonusses then its smaller counterpart , then their deemed useless its needs to be badassed and usefull enough , and max gang seize wil help against the major blobs, since it gives better bonusses
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.08.10 01:21:00 - [800] They might help with major blobs. But what about having a Flaghship in charge at their max level (say at the wing commander level) and then just placing a CS at the top. you would have a huge amount of ship bonuses going down the ranks. And it would not prevent the blob from forming. These ships are not going to prevent blobs, or make blobing worse. I like the idea though. Ill see what i can do.
Sethose Olderon Deepcor House of Mercury	Posted - 2009.08.14 09:12:00 - [801] Excellent work Balor! I look forward to seeing these in the game, if the devs get to it. Corporate & Alliance Owned Stargates
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.08.18 16:26:00 - [802] Yah, so am I. That being said, the people from Iceland are being rather quiet about what is coming in the winter expansion. Here is to hoping its theses ships plus other goodies.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.09.01 22:04:00 - [803] Working on newer versions of the ships right now. They should be up within the week. They will have some revisions, some sugestions made by people here, and ship descriptions should be up. Also there is a small chance I'll have the full research and BPC requirements up. But as I do not fully comprehend the logic behind them it might take me a good long time.
Markus Reese Caldari	Posted - 2009.09.02 04:12:00 - [804] Think the most recent variations you posted are near the mark. Though the frontline I think should have the ability to fit the more weapons. Such as the rokh variation, the frontline should have the turrets and launcher, while the theater should just be the fewer launchers. I really like the idea though that it acts as another form of leadership booster, ie stuff like the cap recharge rate improved, etc. Very good idea. This would also change setups of ships in combat, different riggings etc.
Markus Reese Caldari	Posted - 2009.09.02 04:16:00 - [805] Originally by: Balor Haliquin All the ships got their hit points reballanced so that they were inline with their respective base ships and then had 600 HP added to them. This should make them a bit more survivable. Debating weather or not to remove the Fleet Command skill requirement for the Frontline command ships so that they have the same training time as the Theater Command Ship. But that can be discussed. Whoops, saw this part about needing the fleet command skill. If you compare to the actual command ships, that skill is the same, it is in the secondary (or was it tertiary) where the change is different. Ie the heavy assault ship skill for field command, logistics for fleet. Both have different powers, the frontline should be more tanky/offence one would think, theatre should be the more back, eccm stuff, etc buffing to fit with the prereq skills. Both same power, but in different ways.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.09.02 18:16:00 - [806] Yah what I'm trying to do is make the skill time as close to each other for both ships types as possible. Right now the frontline command ship takes about a month longer then the theater command ship. So I'm thinking about pulling the Fleet Commander skill for the Frontline version and pulling the wing commander skill down to Wing Commander IV. That will easily make up more then the skill training time difference. In case you are wondering, the math that I have found works best for figureing out skill training time is the fallowing. With +4s and fairly even atributes and almost maxed learning skills a level 1 skill take 5 days to get to rank 5. for a level 2 skill it takes about 10 days. And the logic continues. When I say to rank 5, i mean from no training in the skill what so ever to the highest rank possible in total training time. So take the level of the skill (called the multiplier or rank or level depending on the skill) and multiply that number times 5 for the total time that you will need to get that skill to 5. If its level 4 then just take the multiplier in days, its not accurate but it gets you very much in the ball park. Anything less then 4 for most skills is simply not worth the time.
Markus Reese Caldari	Posted - 2009.09.03 03:33:00 - [807] Yeah, that x8 multiplyer for wing command is a killer; fleet command needed would be near doubling of training time over something like a maurader iirc. I like your overall concept though. Acting as a fleet support but more of a defensive role with the bonuses to fleet ship operations or whatnot. Really fills a niche.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.09.03 21:11:00 - [808] Yah I think I will be needing to revamp the entire skill requirements for the ships. They should be hard to get but I think these are bordering on the level of capital ships.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.09.15 04:39:00 - [809] Edited by: Balor Haliquin on 15/09/2009 04:39:12 Okay so I did a bit of calculating on the current skill requirements and found something a bit desterbing. The Frontline Command Ship take about 201 days to get from no skills in any of the requirements to being able to fly the ships, that is not to say put guns on it or the like. While the Theater Command Ships take 167 to be able to hop in the ship. This is assuming that the character has maxed learning skills. So if it was a brand new character to eve I would say one would be looking at over a year for the Theater Command and a year and a half for the Frontline Command. So I'm going to have to shrink that time by a good amount. Sorry for the delay but I'm trying to rework the entire skill set requirements.
Linden Dixon	Posted - 2009.09.18 09:03:00 - [810] why not make these tech III battleships and allow for a whole range of customisable options. I think the fleet options are great, but that could be just one option. You could have a strategic battleship skill. But then have a higher skill requirement, by having some of the mods requiring existing advanced battleship skills, like black-ops, marauders etc. Your Flagship skill could fit into this.
Haxfar Portlaind	Posted - 2009.09.18 09:06:00 - [811] hmm, when did caldari use storm names for their ships?
Malefectra	Posted - 2009.09.18 09:40:00 - [812] Bump for the bump god Mal, bad, from the Latin... River Tam (Firefly)
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.09.26 13:14:00 - [813] While the tech 3 is a fasinating and could be very good for a battleship. These ships are more designed around the concept for the tech two system. As in these are designed to have the restrictions and limitations. I'm more interested to see what CCP has in store for the Strategic Battleships. Tsunami is not a storm. Its the Japanese name for a large title wave. The skills are a little on the exsesive side. As the new skill requirements are looking you can expect to see a 60 day reduction in the skill times for the ablity to fly the ship. As t is now you are looking at 160 day at the minimum. That might get a little smaller then that. But to put it in perspective, going for a Marauder is a a 140 day skill plan asuming that you have very good atributes and learning skills. Ill be posting new ships that will include minor changes to stats and new skill plans some time soon.
Dr Therikal Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2009.09.30 22:19:00 - [814] Originally by: Balor Haliquin Ill be posting new ships that will include minor changes to stats and new skill plans some time soon. I look forward to this, and I wanted to congratulate you on fleshing out such a great idea with so much detail. There is very, very little potential to turn these into solopwn mobiles, as they've been de-toothed. I think they need to have the toughest tanks in the sub-capital class, because they NEED to survive. This doesn't make them overpowered in any way. All it needs to do is force the opposing gang to take out the other ships, rather than wasting their time chipping away at the Flagship. As a long-suffering FC, and a frequent flyer of Command Ships, I really adore this idea. And you. <3 --------------------------------- But courage which goes against military expediency is stupidity, or, if it is insisted upon by a commander, irresponsibility. -Erwin Rommel
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.10.02 06:23:00 - [815] As it stands these ships could have passive tanks in the 500,000 effective hit point range. And I'm sure the Caldari versions could fit a very mean passive shield tank that would make most people grown. That being said their damage output is rather low for their size and you would have to make a choice between the super tank and reasonable gank. Ohh here are the changes I made to the latest ones. The skill requirements for the ships have been changed to reduce the overall skill time needed to fly them. The frontline command ship went from 220 day to 150, the theater command ship is around 160 days, so no real change for the latter. The Tsunami got a CPU boost to allow it to better fulfill its role and still be able to tank.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.10.02 06:28:00 - [816] AMARR Name: Requiem Hull: Abaddon Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Carthum Conglomerate Carthum ships are the very embodiment of the Amarrian warfare philosophy. Possessing sturdy armor and advanced weapons systems, they provide a nice mix of offense and defense. On the other hand, their electronics and shield systems tend to be rather limited. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Energy Turret damage per level, 5% bonus armor Resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Capacitor Recharge Rate per level, 5% bonus to Large Energy Turret capacitor cost per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 20% bonus to Tracking Link and Tracking Computer effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 4 mid / 8 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 20700 CPU: 530 Hard points: 8 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 6850 Shield Resistances: 0/65/52.5/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 9300 Armor Resistances: 50/35/37.5/35 Hull HP: 8200 Velocity: 89m/s Drone Bay: 75m^3s Drone Bandwidth: 75 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6375 Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 80km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Radar 22 Signature Radius: 480m Scanner Resolution: 85 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Fusion 8 Prerequisite Skills Primary Skills Required > Amarr Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Amarr Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Warfare Link Specialist IV --> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Command Ships IV -> Heavy Assault Ships IV --> Assault Ships IV ---> Engineering V ---> Mechanics V ---> Spaceship Command III -> Advanced Weapon Upgrades IV --> Weapon Upgrades V -> Wing Commander IV --> Leadership V Name: Vanquisher Hull: Abaddon Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Khanid Innovations In addition to robust electronics systems, the Khanid Kingdom's ships possess advanced armor alloys capable of withstanding a great deal of punishment. Generally eschewing the use of turrets, they tend to gear their vessels more towards close-range missile combat. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Torpedo explosion velocity per level, 5% bonus to armor Resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Capacitor Recharge Rate per level, 3% bonus to effectiveness of Armored Warfare Links module per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 5 mid / 7 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 19500 CPU: 530 Hard points: 1 Turret/6 Launcher Shield HP: 7650 Shield Resistances: 0/65/52.5/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8600 Armor Resistances: 50/35/37.5/35 Hull HP: 8100 Velocity: 89m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3s Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6375 Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 80km Maximum Lock: 8 Sensor Strength: Radar 22 Signature Radius: 480m Scanner Resolution: 85 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Fusion 8 Prerequisite Skills Primary Skills Required > Amarr Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Amarr Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Warfare Link Specialist IV --> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Logistics IV -> Spaceship Command III -> Signature Analysis V > Multitasking I -> Targeting V --> Electronics I -> Long Range Targeting V --> Electronics II > Electronics V -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V ---> Leadership V
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.10.02 06:34:00 - [817] CALDARI Name: Tsunami Hull: Rokh Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Kaalakiota As befits one of the largest weapons manufacturers in the known world, Kaalakiota's ships are very combat focused. Favoring the traditional Caldari combat strategy, they are designed around a substantial number of weapons systems, especially missile launchers. However, they have rather weak armor and structure, relying more on shields for protection. Cladari Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Missile Launcher rate of fire per level, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Points per level, 5% bonus to Kinetic Missile damage per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 20% bonus to ECCM and Remote ECCM effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 7 mid / 5 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 13500 CPU: 825 Hard points: 0 Turret/7 Launcher Shield HP: 9550 Shield Resistances: 0/50/52.5/35 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6600 Armor Resistances: 50/10/37.5/60 Hull HP: 7700 Velocity: 89m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Prerequisite Skills Primary Skill Required > Caldari Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Caldari Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Warfare Link Specialist IV --> Leadership V (1) -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Command Ships IV -> Heavy Assault Ships IV --> Assault Ships IV ---> Engineering V ---> Mechanics V ---> Spaceship Command III -> Advanced Weapon Upgrades IV --> Weapon Upgrades V -> Wing Commander IV --> Leadership V Name: Bastion Hull: Rohk Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Ishukone Most of the recent designs off their assembly line have provided for a combination that the Ishukone name is becoming known for great long-range capabilities and shield systems unmatched anywhere else. Caldari Battleship Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range per level, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Siege Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 14900 CPU: 750 Hard points: 7 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 9550 Shield Resistances: 0/50/52.5/35 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6950 Armor Resistances: 50/10/37.5/60 Hull HP: 7350 Velocity: 89m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 8 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Prerequisite Skills Primary Skills Required > Caldari Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Caldari Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Warfare Link Specialist IV --> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Logistics IV -> Spaceship Command III -> Signature Analysis V > Multitasking I -> Targeting V --> Electronics I -> Long Range Targeting V --> Electronics II > Electronics V -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V ---> Leadership V
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.10.02 06:39:00 - [818] GALLENTE Name: Athena Hull: Hyperion Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Roden Shipyards Unlike most Gallente ship manufacturers, Roden Shipyards tends to favor missiles over drones and their ships are generally faster than other Gallente ships in their class. They generally have a substantial amount of hull modification options but limited electronic systems. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Hybrid Turrets damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Armor Hit Points per level, 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret falloff per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 12.5% bonus to Sensor Booster and Remote Sensor Booster effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 5 mid / 7 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 15650 CPU: 570 Hard points: 8 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 7100 Shield Resistances: 0/50/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8550 Armor Resistances: 50/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 9200 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Prerequisite Skills Primary Skills Required > Gallente Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Gallente Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Warfare Link Specialist IV --> Leadership V (1) -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Command Ships IV -> Heavy Assault Ships IV --> Assault Ships IV ---> Engineering V ---> Mechanics V ---> Spaceship Command III -> Advanced Weapon Upgrades IV --> Weapon Upgrades V -> Wing Commander IV --> Leadership V Name: Artemis Hull: Hyperion Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: CreoDron As the largest drone developer and manufacturer in space, CreoDron has a vested interest in drone carriers. While sacrificing relatively little in the way of defensive capability, the Artimus can chew its way through surprisingly strong opponents - provided, of course, that the pilot uses top-of-the-line CreoDron drones. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 10% bonus to drone Hit Points and Damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Armor Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Information Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 14150 CPU: 570 Hard points: 6 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 7100 Shield Resistances: 0/50/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8800 Armor Resistances: 50/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8950 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 175m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 125 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 8 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Prerequisite Skills Primary Skills Required > Gallente Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Gallente Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Warfare Link Specialist IV --> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Logistics IV -> Spaceship Command III -> Signature Analysis V > Multitasking I -> Targeting V --> Electronics I -> Long Range Targeting V --> Electronics II > Electronics V -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V ---> Leadership V
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.10.02 06:45:00 - [819] MINMATAR Name: Lahar Hull: Maelstrom Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Boundless Creations Boundless Creation's ships are based on the Brutor tribe's philosophy of warfare: simply fit as much firepower onto your ship as possible. Defense systems and electronics arrays therefore tend to take a back seat to sheer annihilative potential. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Projectile Turret damage per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Signature Radius reduction per level, 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret falloff per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 20% bonus to Target Painter effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 18700 CPU: 610 Hard points: 8 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 8400 Shield Resistances: 15/50/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 7750 Armor Resistances: 75/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7200 Velocity: 94m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Prerequisite Skills Primary Skills Required > Minmatar Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Minmatar Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Warfare Link Specialist IV --> Leadership V (1) -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Command Ships IV -> Heavy Assault Ships IV --> Assault Ships IV ---> Engineering V ---> Mechanics V ---> Spaceship Command III -> Advanced Weapon Upgrades IV --> Weapon Upgrades V -> Wing Commander IV --> Leadership V Name: Halberd Hull: Maelstrom Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Core Complexion Core Complexion's ships are unusual in that they favor electronics and defense over the "lots of guns" approach traditionally favored by the Minmatar. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Signature Radius reduction per level, 3% bonus to Skirmish Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 High / 7 Mid / 5 Low / 2 rig Power Grid: 18100 CPU: 610 Hard points: 6 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 8400 Shield Resistances: 15/50/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 7750 Armor Resistances: 75/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7200 Velocity: 94m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 8 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Prerequisite Skills Primary Skills Required > Minmatar Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Minmatar Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Warfare Link Specialist IV --> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Logistics IV -> Spaceship Command III -> Signature Analysis V > Multitasking I -> Targeting V --> Electronics I -> Long Range Targeting V --> Electronics II > Electronics V -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V ---> Leadership V
MukkBarovian	Posted - 2009.10.02 07:32:00 - [820] I would fly a battleship with a gangmod. I would begin to have problems because I would **** in my pants whenever I started EvE up.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.10.02 19:07:00 - [821] The Theater Command Ships do have the utility high slot avalible. The Frontline Command Ships are a bit more combat oriented, so they are allowed to fit a full rack of weapons. The reason for the lower then standard T2 resistances is that it is a very real possibility that ships with such high resistances to start could end up with gigantic buffer tanks or impossible for a small gang to bread passive shield tanks. Also they are fallowing the presedent set by the Marauder and Black-Ops ships. The reason for the lower DPS is to prevent them from completely out classing the Marauders. The marauders can do more DPS for longer, the Flagships tank harder.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.10.21 18:04:00 - [822] BUMP
Clydar Dramos	Posted - 2009.10.22 11:59:00 - [823] Has there been any word/contact from CCP regarding this idea? P.s.: it is awesome btw. o/
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.10.23 07:33:00 - [824] Yes some one has been on from CCP about this thread. But they said next to nothing about it. I would rather like it if they desided to pop into this for thread and see what progress had been made. That being said I doubt that this ship would make it into their development cycle for a good long while. This is of course assuming that they ever read the threads in this forum from time to time.
Cpt AngelNova Amarr Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.23 13:15:00 - [825] I support this Idea good work Balor
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.10.24 17:33:00 - [826] Thanks, i had a lot of help from the people who posted. Please let your friends know to check the idea out, and hopefully someone knows a member of the CSM.
Jugon	Posted - 2009.10.24 18:18:00 - [827] The Galente -> Artemis , should be Dominix Hull based , rather than another Hyperion Hull Base.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.10.25 00:17:00 - [828] I understand the feeling of "Well the Dominix is a drone boat so it should be based on that hull". But there are several points against this idea. First is the fact that there already is a T2 Dominix drone boat (Sin). And to make a second one would only muddy the waters and possibly make one of the new Dominix completely useless in they eyes of PvPers. Second is that, besides the Heavy Assault Ships, there is no presidence for T2 ships to be spread around multiple hulls. So if we are going to use the Hyperion hull, then we need to stick with it. Third and final is the fact that because of how the ship tiers work the Dominix hull would end up having less firepower and hit points then the hyperion version. Thus cursing the ship to a rather small corner of peoples ship hanger. All three thing are item which I would like to avoid.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.11.25 21:18:00 - [829] There is a debate in my mind on if it is a good idea to change the ship bonuses ion the Gallente and Minmatar from active tank bonuses to passive tank bonuses like the Phobos and Broadsword do. I like the idea that the Gallente and Minmatar versions are more high sec oriented (Small gangs with active tanks or spider tanks) while the Amarr and Caldari are more null sec oriented (huger buffer tanks). That being said, there is nothing to prevent you from buffer tanking the Gallente and Minmatar ones and active tanking the Amarr and Caldari. They would be a bit less effective in those functions I would imagine. But I am working on the pros and cons.
Sepheir Sepheron Caldari	Posted - 2009.11.25 22:36:00 - [830] Edited by: Sepheir Sepheron on 25/11/2009 22:36:51 Edit: Whoops didn't fully read :>
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.11.26 00:12:00 - [831] Damn, now i am wondering what you put in there.
Markus Reese Caldari Lorentzian Expeditionaries	Posted - 2009.11.26 01:26:00 - [832] Hmm... what about a new type of ganglinks. One that support and improve logistical types of gear. Say one that boosts tracking computer/link effectiveness. Sensor boosters, ECCM, etc. Oooh, those would be cool new modules.... A few non racial ones in other words for the ship bonus one. This way there is only the one new category to train for. Uplink ganglinks or something.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.11.26 07:39:00 - [833] I was working at one point at alternative warfare link modules. But i could never get the idea to work out with skill requirements and bonuses. But i was thinking about drone, alternative ecm/eccm, and others. But the idea never jelled enough for me to put it out there. As they sit though, these ships are designed to work with the modules currently in the game.
Kanatta Jing	Posted - 2009.11.26 10:19:00 - [834] Black Ops have abilities unique to the game. A T2 Battleship could well warrant similar benefit. Like a fancy Command Mod that increased the damage of racial weapon system by 2% per level for the fleet.
Black Bird1000	Posted - 2009.11.26 12:19:00 - [835] If you want to use it in fleets shield boost boni or armor rep boni are utterly fail. Instead use Resistance boni for all ships, and it would be probably better to restrict the damage even more, so remove the dmg bonis and add more tank (boni to hp maybe?) In case of the Theater BS maybe even reduce the turret slots by 50%. Then they would be truly ships made for fleet boni and not for fighting.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.11.26 23:57:00 - [836] Yah I have looked into a massive turret reduction but i don't like forcing the the pilot into a single fit that works. I like the option of letting pilots experiment with the ships. As it stands the arguments for resistance bonuses are better then the draw backs. Resistance are always on, and you have to fit an active tank to get the bonus from the rep amount. I'll look for a few more changes to make before I put out a newer version.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.12.10 22:12:00 - [837] Still working on more changes. Dominion might have opened up some more posabilities for bonuses and roles. But the riggers of the expansion have distracted me.
Rosur Gallente Heroes.	Posted - 2009.12.10 22:26:00 - [838] Pointing out that with the Gallente Athena you are useing Roden Shipyards as the ship manufacture yet you have no missile slots on the ship. Roden Shipyards prefers missiles... Though red hyperion would be cool to have. Please resize your sig to less than 24000 bytes - Mitnal
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.12.11 20:27:00 - [839] I belive there are some of the Roden Shipyards ships that do not fallow the missile concept. But much like the Catham group for the Amarr. It seems to be general rule rather then a mandate. That being said, would you prefer an all guns command ships or a mix of guns and missiles but neither being able to fill the highs.
Eurzadahn Gallente Tenichigo Kaigun	Posted - 2009.12.11 22:37:00 - [840] I have to say I think this could be a beautiful step in advancing the Command Class and the battleship as a whole. Pardon me if I missed it (reading through 29 pages I may of forgotten) what would this do to the Commandship? I assume that class would be reduced to more of a roaming moderate sized gang as opposed to a large war fleet? My apologies if I missed it. --------------------------------------------- Eurzadahn Sovereign & Founder, Tenichigo Kaigun
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.12.12 00:01:00 - [841] As it stands, Command Ships don't have the static hit points to make an appearance in the large scale PvP fights that are fairly common in null sec and increasingly so in low sec. That being said they are not the all that useless. They make great complements to small but especialy faster fleets, like HAC and Battlecrusier gangs. They are not going to be replaced for the large scale fights, for in much of what I have seen they are a rarity to say the least. Also note that the Command Ships are able to use more warfare links then the Flagships. But the Flagships get a fleet bonus right off the bat. So its a bit go give and take. Do you sacrifice mobility and the number of warfare links for the unique bonus and the heavy tank? It really depends on what you are going for in the fleet.
Eurzadahn Gallente Tenichigo Kaigun	Posted - 2009.12.12 00:20:00 - [842] Hrm. Okay. Interesting. Thank you for the clarification on that. I will read up more on your ideas. I know I want an Athena. --------------------------------------------- Eurzadahn Sovereign & Founder, Tenichigo Kaigun
Valharu	Posted - 2009.12.12 02:28:00 - [843] I have always thought that for the Min Frontline Command Ships should have had a 10% Per level for falloff to support up front but to the rear. And the Theater Command ship should have had a 10% Opatimal per Level because they should be supporting from Long Range. I just don't think combat wise, CC Ships have been thought out as well as they should have been to fill out more of a support role or combat support role. All Gang effects should be in the Role Bonuses.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.12.12 04:38:00 - [844] Well I'm curious as to which bonuses you would replace to get the respective range bonuses.
Maeve Kell	Posted - 2009.12.12 06:43:00 - [845] dont know.. i'd prefer them to have no damage bonuses but hell of a tank (resi bonus and repair amount bonus?).. cause everyone would primary them.. (5% to hitpoints per level, so you kill 25% of the hitpoints of the fleet by killing one ship with flagship 5)
Valharu	Posted - 2009.12.12 16:12:00 - [846] First let me say, after reading what I wrote, when I said I don't think CC Ships have been thought out as well as they should have, I didnt mean the OP but CCP. =) I think the concept of an idea that Tech 1 - 2 Ships are limited to only a certain preconcepts of a number of bonuses system is limited in thought but instead should be based per bases of what the ship is ment to do. But going to T2 might mean they are stronger or have special roles. If I was to build a Sleipnir and Claymore over again but still sorta going by their ideas. They would look like this. Sleipnir: 10% Bonus to Falloff per Level, 5% Bonus Rof Per Level. Next Tier: 7.5% to Shield Booster per level, 7.5 Bouns reduction to Shield Booster power usage. Role Bonus: 99% Reduction in Warefare Link Modual CPU need. 10% Bonus to Skirmish Warfare Link Effectiveness. Claymore: 10% Bonus to Optimal Range per Level, 5% Bonus to damage per Level. Tier 2: 7.5% to Shield Booster Bonus and Tracking Speed per Level. Role Bonus: 99% Reduction in Warefare Link Modual CPU need. 10% Bonus to Skirmish Warefare Link Effectivness. Can use up to 3 Warfare Links. I just personally think that a frontline unit needs to support with some firepower but really needs to tank while also supporting with its Warfare Links while as a Rear Line Unite needs to snipe more helping to put it out of harms way with some tanking ability while it supports several Warefare Links going on. That is some of my thought process on that.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.12.13 05:45:00 - [847] I see what you are getting at. I will see if they can be changed in that fasion.
Valharu	Posted - 2009.12.15 01:00:00 - [848] Looking forward to see what you come up with.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.12.15 02:02:00 - [849] Its significantly harder then I was anticipating. Removing one skills and adding another is doing more to muddle what the ships are for and whatthey can do then i was anticipating.
Doctor Sora	Posted - 2009.12.15 03:36:00 - [850] Well, this looks more thought through than a lot of recent CCP implementations (or maybe they just got unlucky this time). U've been around for 2 years now, always making it better and better, i don't really see why isn't CCP giving back any feedback to this thread. I think that this is a very good idea, would be cool to have some of these for smaller aliances who live in low-sec, and most of their battles do not involve cap-ships. Thank You :)
Valharu	Posted - 2009.12.16 01:29:00 - [851] Take your time and think it through. I just don't think that many of the ships are thought out as well as they should have been from a Military stand point. Such as the Slip as a Frontline CC Ship and those like it, need to support the front line from the rear which means extended short range firepower and an excessive tank to be able to stay in it to keep the gang mods running. And the Claymore as a Theater CC, use some tanking and range to mitigate incoming damage and needs extended long range firepower to help support while it runs mulitipul gang mods. I just think, that they should look a little more at the why's when it comes to ship design. And don't get stuck on a uniformed bonus system, build ships upon a concept and let it flow from there and THEN let players play with their mods from that point forth.
Eagle Tarquinas Gallente Epiphyte Mining and Exploration	Posted - 2009.12.16 03:59:00 - [852] This is cool stuff, keep up the work Balor... hopefully someone in CCP decides to finally take a serious look at this post.
usrevenge	Posted - 2009.12.16 04:28:00 - [853] Flagship sounds more like what a mothership would be =) not a BS.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.12.16 23:24:00 - [854] Yah I know the flagship name has been suggested for other ship classes. Its just a working name. Heavy Command Ships does not sound as sexy as Flagships. Just my opinion. CCP seems to be rather tight lipped about everything they do and even more so now a days. Had one guy from CCP respond to the thread but he gave no hints about what was going on. But in all honesty I would love to see these ships in the game. But knowing CCP they may read this thread, they may not. I have done what I can to advertise these ships to people.
Badger Beard	Posted - 2009.12.18 14:38:00 - [855] I think the Flagship idea would be better incorperated into the black op ships (which would therfore lead covert op fleets into cyno jammed systems) and sacrifice their turrets in order to fit the command modules. I would then have the tech 2 varients of the tier 3 BS to become subcapital dreads but have a restriction on the ships only being able target structures. I do not think sub cap dreads should be as powerful as the actual dreads but would pose a significant threat to POS's whether they may be. It would also be great to have them able to equip the covert cyno module to give the covert fleet insertions real bite.
riverini Gallente MOTHER-CORP Majesta Empire	Posted - 2009.12.19 08:09:00 - [856] i support this.... Balor, CCP is gonna be worried that u might ask for revenues bcz this was ur idea, maybe that's a hold up for them...
Private Marcus	Posted - 2009.12.30 18:33:00 - [857] /signed
MeBiatch	Posted - 2009.12.30 22:47:00 - [858] hmm dont know if this has been suggested yet... but these ships should be like mini-titans(without a ddd)... one of the main things that is happeneing in eve right now is you have a large fleet and if you dont have a spare titan you try to crash the gate and end up lagging the system to kingdom come... if you are a jerk you will say just get a titan... but hell not every damn alliance/corp can afford one(70 billion isk) so as a idea of not overloading the grid would be use these tech II bs's having a roll bonus that allows them to use jump portal generators black ops will still be usefull(can cyno in jammed systems) so now you can get your hands on one of these pretty ships and can move your fleet around
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2010.01.06 06:39:00 - [859] Honestly making Flagships into complete mini titans would make the Titans themselves completely useless save for being long range artillery. Something that CCP would like to avoid something like that. Also the major issue with making Flagships, is the issue of making them into overpowered super ships. The more we avoid that the more we avoid the nerf bat later.
MeBiatch	Posted - 2010.01.08 02:02:00 - [860] Originally by: Balor Haliquin Honestly making Flagships into complete mini titans would make the Titans themselves completely useless save for being long range artillery. Something that CCP would like to avoid something like that. Also the major issue with making Flagships, is the issue of making them into overpowered super ships. The more we avoid that the more we avoid the nerf bat later. i am not saying they would get a far jump range... perhaps only a couple light years... that way the titan can still brige in ships from a longer range... the ship would provide another option then storming the gates for smaller alliances... i would prefer to see this bonus then the race specific other mini titan bonus on the ship... plus the ship does not get a mini ddd so titans are still usefull...
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2010.01.08 22:32:00 - [861] Well one of the major issues with giving the Flagship the ability to use bridges is that you can not make cynos in high sec. And the advantage with the command and control ability of the Flagships is that they give titan like fleet bonuses in high sec. and they are much more mobile then their capital cousins. So the benefit of the bridge are kinda mitigated. Even with the bridge ability its usefulness as a bridging ship is rather low. Also note that limiting the range of the jump bridge for the Flagship would only make the bridge more useless. Most of the jumps that you are going to be looking to do would be 3-5 light years. And that is the general range of the Jump Bridge. Any sorter then that at it becomes little more then another temporary gate to get to the next system. It is an interesting idea. But the issues it makes for ballancing and actualy working with current game mechanics make it a rather poor option.
MeBiatch	Posted - 2010.01.09 01:25:00 - [862] Originally by: Balor Haliquin Well one of the major issues with giving the Flagship the ability to use bridges is that you can not make cynos in high sec. And the advantage with the command and control ability of the Flagships is that they give titan like fleet bonuses in high sec. and they are much more mobile then their capital cousins. So the benefit of the bridge are kinda mitigated. Even with the bridge ability its usefulness as a bridging ship is rather low. Also note that limiting the range of the jump bridge for the Flagship would only make the bridge more useless. Most of the jumps that you are going to be looking to do would be 3-5 light years. And that is the general range of the Jump Bridge. Any sorter then that at it becomes little more then another temporary gate to get to the next system. It is an interesting idea. But the issues it makes for ballancing and actualy working with current game mechanics make it a rather poor option. dude 2 ly is inline with what the black ops starts off with i would assume the the flagship would start off with the same... that gives you 4 ly with max skills... plus as it stands logistics with titans takes forever to setup... you end up waitn hours for it to be setup and watching grass grow is more interesting... but if you had multiple flagships moving fleets around and getting them into position would be faster... its your ship idea bro... but i would not rule out the bonus just yet...
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2010.01.10 22:16:00 - [863] Ohh no man I'm just saying that giving the ship a bonus of that nature would, in my mind, make the Titan a bit on the useless side. Not to mention overshadow the Black-Ops battleship. Because why bother skilling for a titan or black ops because the Flagship could provide you with the benefits of a bridge at 1/100th the cost. Not to mention the added benefits of a fleet bonus like the Titans. I understand what you are getting at but i want to avoid stepping on the black-ops toes and make more of a move on the titan's job.
MeBiatch	Posted - 2010.01.18 01:43:00 - [864] Originally by: Balor Haliquin Ohh no man I'm just saying that giving the ship a bonus of that nature would, in my mind, make the Titan a bit on the useless side. Not to mention overshadow the Black-Ops battleship. Because why bother skilling for a titan or black ops because the Flagship could provide you with the benefits of a bridge at 1/100th the cost. Not to mention the added benefits of a fleet bonus like the Titans. I understand what you are getting at but i want to avoid stepping on the black-ops toes and make more of a move on the titan's job. yeah i was thinking the same thing about the black ops ship... but then the black ops can still cyno in a jammed system... and as a way not to overpower the ship the flagship would only beable to jump people in your wing... that way the titan is still good for moving a whole fleet but the flagship would be usefull in moving reinforcements... i personally think there should be more ships in the game that can bridge ships... i think this would help with alot of the lag problems that CCP is facing atm...
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2010.01.18 02:24:00 - [865] Okay let me clarify how bridging works. You have to be in jump range of the target system with the Titan or the Black-Ops ship. Then you po any cyno or a covert cyno for the Black_ops to get into a cyno jammed system. Then your fleet mates can right click on the Titan or Black-Ops and go through like a Jump Portal Generator. They pop out on top of the cyno ship and that is that. The issue with this is the fallowing. Ships that can use bridging need to be able to jump, because the bridge range is calculated off of the jump range of the ship. This means that putting one on a flagship will be a jump capable ship. Also consider the fact that the flagship will then gain a fuel bay for such use. And as current game mechanics there is no way of restricting who can use the jump bridge in the fleet. And as far as I know if you are jumping to a standard cyno with a covert bridge, it works like a standard bridge. Thus this negates any benifits of the Flagship having one.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2010.02.14 04:33:00 - [866] Bump
Altaica Amur Aliastra	Posted - 2010.02.14 05:17:00 - [867] Seems like a decent idea overall though I'm inclined to flip the roles on the Caldari pair of ships as combat wise the missile boat shares space with the Raven and the Golem while the rail boat only has the Rokh as a comrade in roles and capabilities. I think it would be nice to flip weapon types compared to their command ship counterparts so that the other weapons system gets a chance on a more dedicated combat platform. This might also be an appropriate concept to extend to the other races, giving Amaar missile users a chance to get a more aggressive combat ship and gallente drone users the same. How to do with certainly is worth questioning, either it can be approached with the current model of simply allowing players the option to go all weapons at the expense of their command mods or offering a role bonus to reduce the number of turrets needed, this may prove particularly important in getting a drone ship to preform similarily to the others that lean more heavily on high slots.
Battle Tested Shiva	Posted - 2010.02.14 06:45:00 - [868] Edited by: Battle Tested on 14/02/2010 06:48:23 I like the idea of the flagship, a true command ship that the FC would use. It would need a superior tank, effective fleet bonuses, but i would do a little different as far as the dmg output. i would give it a bonus to field 5x fighters....this way he can delegate his dps to someone else so he can concentrate on commanding his fleet instead of putting out his dps...give him 5 fighters with a 50% bonus to dps, no guns/launchers....command link bonuses that exceed that of a standard command ship, and it would need a large increase in hp and resistances. It should get a large bonus to fighter hp/speed/dmg/tracking. This ship should be electronic warfare immune but most of all it should be expensive. Another option of this is to make this a T3 ship, give the pilot the option of different setups to range from small gang warfare to large fleet scale.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2010.02.14 23:39:00 - [869] The Flagship is not designed to be a carrier in any form. The fighters themselves are a bit overpowered for such a small platform. One has to imagine what the effect of 10 fighter baring Flagships would have when facing 10 Marauders. The fighters can chase the other ships all over the system and the marauders have to be in direct fire range of the Flagships. Simply put it would make them too powerful to easily. As they are, Tech 3 ships are a ship class that is a very diverse and adaptibale platform. They would not match up with the very specific role of hevay tanking command ship that the Flasgships represent.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2010.02.25 14:54:00 - [870] Flagships/Heavy Command Ships in tyranis C/D?
Malcofist Falconpunch	Posted - 2010.02.26 11:40:00 - [871] Back to front page. /signed put these in~ :D . Has CCP responded to this thread yet?
Mithfindel Aseyakone	Posted - 2010.02.26 12:27:00 - [872] As a note, for a "fleet commander" ship - that is, a ship actually used by an FC - the most important bits would likely be survivability, sensor strength, scan resolution and targeting range. Perhaps even something that increases the range of ship scanners. Damage is a secondary thing - the fleet will take care of that. The purpose of these attributes to be good would be to allow the FC lock a large amount of targets and keep an eye on them to best call the primary. Survivability is a must, because otherwise the opposing fleet sees "ah, potential FC" and kills the ship. As no amount of single ship capability will be enough to keep the thing in one piece, it would likely need, if possible, a bonus the remote repairer amount, perhaps even range. This, I believe, would be quite unique. So, for Amarr something like an Apocalypse hull with four turrets, T1 bonuses from the Apocalypse. T2 gang bonuses +5 % to remote armour repairer range and repair amount and energy transfer array range and transfer amount. Marauder resistances, but combat recon-style electronics. Caldari: Raven hull, with four turrets, T1 bonuses +5 % large hybrid turret damage and +10 % large hybrid turret range. T2 gang bonuses +5 % to shield transporter range and remote shield boost amount and energy transfer array range and transfer amount. Gallente: Megathron, T1 bonuses hybrid tracking and damage. T2 gang bonuses remote armour repair amount & range and tracking link efficiency & range. Minmatar: Tempest, T1 bonuses projectile range and damage, T2 gang bonuses remote shield boost amount & range and tracking link efficiency & range. Why the tier 2 hulls? Well, the important thing here is that they look good with smaller amount of turrets, unlike the tier 3's which look like as if something was missing. And we know CCP's M.O., if it looks good, it is good. Alternative would be tier 1's, though I guess at least the Armageddon would again look bad with only four turrets (since the "galley" part has space for five).
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2010.02.28 04:35:00 - [873] In all honesty im looking at what you prepose and not seeing show they would be a more effective fleet command ship. You are giving them bonuses to remote repair/energy transfer/shield transfer and cutting their guns in half. What is to prevent this ship from sitting in a tower in the system and just giving bonuses? As it stands they will fall apart just as fast as their T1 counterparts. They need a tank bonus to make them harder to kill. Not to mention a hit point boost. I like the remote repair gang bonus but realize that that already exsists in the form of gang warfare modules. Also note that the tier 2 battleships already have a tech 2 version. Why do they need another one? That being said im not against a battleships size logistics ship.
Ogogov	Posted - 2010.02.28 06:14:00 - [874] Yes, let's keep the Hyperions' terribad 7.5% repair bonus because we all know how great an active armor tank is in PVP situations.... Care should be taken to ensure the class doesn't interfere with Marauders as missioning platforms.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2010.02.28 22:15:00 - [875] Please note sir that the terrible 7.5% armor rep amount bonus on the Hyperion based ships and the 7.5% shield rep amount bonus on the Maelstrom based ships will be replaced with a 5% bonus to armor resistances and 5% bonus to shield resistances respectively. A lot of work has gone into making sure these ships are not going to be nearly as good at mission running as the Marauders. Some of the differences include, a smaller damage/rate of fire bonus to reduce the DPS coming out of them. They have the same number of guns as their base hull with no 100% bonus to damage like the Marauders have. This makes them far more cap unstable or ammunition hogs. They have a resistance bonus instead of a rep bonus, while resistances work well for both active and passive tanking, it give the pilot a massive buffer tank rather easily. The Marauders also have a web effectiveness bonus that is simply not seen on the Flagships. Its a fair worry but there has been a lot of work on the ships to prevent them from becoming Marauder replacement ships. I can not prevent pilots from taking them into missions and using them for PvE though. In the same way I can't prevent pilots from ratting in an armor tanked Widow.
Bloody2k Gallente SCHWARZSCHILD. Warped Aggression	Posted - 2010.03.04 23:41:00 - [876] The idea and the large and powerful work of Balor Haliquin is absolutly fascinating! I am starstruck about this great idea and I am of the opinion, that this work is deserving a feedback from CCP! Einmal mit Profis!
Ysp Amai	Posted - 2010.03.07 08:38:00 - [877] Okay I'm going over all the suggestions and i am going to put up new versions in the next few days.
Haxfar Portlaind	Posted - 2010.03.07 09:16:00 - [878] Edited by: Haxfar Portlaind on 07/03/2010 09:15:58 If you have checked the new dev blogs, you'll note that they'll introduce flagships...http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=738 Quote: Flagships! "A flagship is the lead ship in a fleet of vessels, a designation given on account of being either the largest, fastest, newest, most heavily armed or, for publicity purposes, the best known. In military terms, it is a ship used by the commanding officer of a group of naval ships." Flagships are the elite of your tournament team. They are the strongest, toughest, most damaging (and most expensive) ship you can field. Flagships must have a name, and successful flagships can become the stuff of tournament legend. The disadvantageous side of this, though, is that flagships are famous. As a tradeoff for their power, your opponents will know in advance what they are capable of when their setup is advertised for all to see. This raises the question of when you should field your flagship -if at all. Do you use it in the early rounds, and risk losing it? Do you save it for a late game where you may need some extra power? And if you do that, will your opponent predict it and counter it? And will we see some rare battleships fielded as flagships, heralding the return of the most expensive ships in Eve to the tournament? I'm excited just thinking about it.
Frances Ducoir Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2010.03.07 12:12:00 - [879] Edited by: Frances Ducoir on 07/03/2010 12:16:33 Edited by: Frances Ducoir on 07/03/2010 12:13:09 Although not a bad idea, i think the "EW-bonus" on the frontline command ships are not well thought and favour amarr over all other races. Amarr: 20% bonus to Tracking Link and Tracking Computer effectiveness Caldari: 20% bonus to ECCM and Remote ECCM effectiveness Gallente: 12.5% bonus to Sensor Booster and Remote Sensor Booster effectiveness Minmatar: 20% bonus to Target Painter effectiveness So in general Matar get a bonus to their offensive racial EW-type and Gallente / Caldari /Amarr get a bonus to their defensive racial EW-Type. Either you have to bring them in line to get all an offensive ew bonus, or all should have a defensive ew bonus. Since there is no counter module to the target painter other bonus should be changed to be more offensive too. Amarr: 20% bonus to Tracking Link and Tracking Computer effectiveness <- would result in an overpowered solopwnmobile. amarr already have the best tracking weapons. second: boosting tracking is more the gallente/matar role (look at oneiros & scimitar). if you look at the guardians bonus f.e., this ship should have some type of capacitor-affecting-modules related bonus (energy vampire/destab and cap transfer effectivity). Caldari: 20% bonus to ECCM and Remote ECCM effectiveness <- ok, but not as useful as the other races bonuses. should boost ECM burst too (and ecm burst only). ECM burst is underused atm. this would open chances for some nice strategies like smartbombing fleet with ecm bursts, which warp directly into the enemy fleet. Gallente: 12.5% bonus to Sensor Booster and Remote Sensor Booster effectiveness <- replace with tracking link/comp bonus. Minmatar: 20% bonus to Target Painter effectiveness <- maybe add opt range / falloff bonus. Result could be: Amarr: 15% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Transfer Arrey effectiveness Caldari: 20% bonus to ECCM, Remote ECCM and ECM Burst effectiveness Gallente: 20% bonus to Tracking Link and Tracking Computer effectiveness Minmatar: 20% bonus to Target Painter effectiveness, 10% to Target Painter falloff snip Signiture remoted because it contained profanity - hutch
Ysp Amai	Posted - 2010.03.07 22:25:00 - [880] To be fair Amarr actualy have the longest range close quarters weapons system (Blasters, Pulse Lasers, Autocannons) but they have the worst tracking. Their long range guns (Railguns, Beam Lasers, Artillery) have the best tracking and medium range compared to the other guns. Granted I can see how longer range or better tracking Pulse Lasers would be a bit nasty to deal with the bonus to range. But realize that an Apocalypse pilot can reach out farther with the same guns and does not have to use any kind of tracking enhancement. Also note that in order to exploit the benefits of the bonus you would need to put on the module. And the Requiem does not have the large number of highs that would let you have all the other gear that you might want. And I think putting a nos bonus on the ship would make them a bit overpowered when you consider that you can put dead-space nos on the ship and have it reach out to 50km. I do agree that the Minmatar do get kinda shafted and need to be looked at.
Ysp Amai	Posted - 2010.04.21 03:52:00 - [881] Bump sorry I promised to update the designs, but world war 3 on the main server has hit in full force. They will hopefully be up soon. But until then comment away please. Changes will be all the Flagships getting resistance bonuses instead of rep bonuses for Gallente and Minmatar. A reduction in the role bonus given to the Frontline command ships. A buff to the Minmatar combat bonuses (ie the range bonuses). Also expect to see new descriptions up for frontline and theater command ships.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2010.04.29 22:07:00 - [882] AMARR Name: Requiem Hull: Abaddon Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Carthum Conglomerate Carthum ships are the very embodiment of the Amarrian warfare philosophy. Possessing sturdy armor and advanced weapons systems, they provide a nice mix of offense and defense. On the other hand, their electronics and shield systems tend to be rather limited. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Energy Turret damage per level, 5% bonus armor Resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Capacitor Recharge Rate per level, 5% bonus to Large Energy Turret capacitor cost per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 15% bonus to Tracking Link and Tracking Computer effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 4 mid / 8 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 20700 CPU: 530 Hard points: 8 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 6850 Shield Resistances: 0/65/52.5/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 9300 Armor Resistances: 50/35/37.5/35 Hull HP: 8200 Velocity: 89m/s Drone Bay: 75m^3s Drone Bandwidth: 75 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6375 Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 80km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Radar 22 Signature Radius: 480m Scanner Resolution: 85 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Fusion 8 Prerequisite Skills Primary Skills Required > Amarr Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Amarr Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Warfare Link Specialist IV --> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Command Ships IV -> Heavy Assault Ships IV --> Assault Ships IV ---> Engineering V ---> Mechanics V ---> Spaceship Command III -> Advanced Weapon Upgrades IV --> Weapon Upgrades V -> Wing Commander IV --> Leadership V Name: Vanquisher Hull: Abaddon Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Khanid Innovations In addition to robust electronics systems, the Khanid Kingdom's ships possess advanced armor alloys capable of withstanding a great deal of punishment. Generally eschewing the use of turrets, they tend to gear their vessels more towards close-range missile combat. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Torpedo explosion velocity per level, 5% bonus to armor Resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Capacitor Recharge Rate per level, 3% bonus to effectiveness of Armored Warfare Links module per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 5 mid / 7 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 19500 CPU: 530 Hard points: 1 Turret/6 Launcher Shield HP: 7650 Shield Resistances: 0/65/52.5/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8600 Armor Resistances: 50/35/37.5/35 Hull HP: 8100 Velocity: 89m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3s Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6375 Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 80km Maximum Lock: 8 Sensor Strength: Radar 22 Signature Radius: 480m Scanner Resolution: 85 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Fusion 8 Prerequisite Skills Primary Skills Required > Amarr Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Amarr Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Warfare Link Specialist IV --> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Logistics IV -> Spaceship Command III -> Signature Analysis V > Multitasking I -> Targeting V --> Electronics I -> Long Range Targeting V --> Electronics II > Electronics V -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V ---> Leadership V
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2010.04.29 22:12:00 - [883] CALDARI Name: Tsunami Hull: Rokh Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Kaalakiota As befits one of the largest weapons manufacturers in the known world, Kaalakiota's ships are very combat focused. Favoring the traditional Caldari combat strategy, they are designed around a substantial number of weapons systems, especially missile launchers. However, they have rather weak armor and structure, relying more on shields for protection. Cladari Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Missile Launcher rate of fire per level, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Points per level, 5% bonus to Kinetic Missile damage per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 15% bonus to ECCM and Remote ECCM effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 7 mid / 5 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 13500 CPU: 825 Hard points: 0 Turret/7 Launcher Shield HP: 9550 Shield Resistances: 0/50/52.5/35 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6600 Armor Resistances: 50/10/37.5/60 Hull HP: 7700 Velocity: 89m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Prerequisite Skills Primary Skill Required > Caldari Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Caldari Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Warfare Link Specialist IV --> Leadership V (1) -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Command Ships IV -> Heavy Assault Ships IV --> Assault Ships IV ---> Engineering V ---> Mechanics V ---> Spaceship Command III -> Advanced Weapon Upgrades IV --> Weapon Upgrades V -> Wing Commander IV --> Leadership V Name: Bastion Hull: Rohk Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Ishukone Most of the recent designs off their assembly line have provided for a combination that the Ishukone name is becoming known for great long-range capabilities and shield systems unmatched anywhere else. Caldari Battleship Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range per level, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Siege Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 14900 CPU: 750 Hard points: 7 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 9550 Shield Resistances: 0/50/52.5/35 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6950 Armor Resistances: 50/10/37.5/60 Hull HP: 7350 Velocity: 89m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 8 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Prerequisite Skills Primary Skills Required > Caldari Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Caldari Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Warfare Link Specialist IV --> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Logistics IV -> Spaceship Command III -> Signature Analysis V > Multitasking I -> Targeting V --> Electronics I -> Long Range Targeting V --> Electronics II > Electronics V -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V ---> Leadership V
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2010.04.29 22:18:00 - [884] GALLENTE Name: Athena Hull: Hyperion Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Roden Shipyards Unlike most Gallente ship manufacturers, Roden Shipyards tends to favor missiles over drones and their ships are generally faster than other Gallente ships in their class. They generally have a substantial amount of hull modification options but limited electronic systems. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Hybrid Turrets damage per level, 5% bonus to armor resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Armor Hit Points per level, 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret falloff per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 15% bonus to Sensor Booster and Remote Sensor Booster effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 5 mid / 7 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 15650 CPU: 570 Hard points: 8 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 7100 Shield Resistances: 0/50/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8550 Armor Resistances: 50/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 9200 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Prerequisite Skills Primary Skills Required > Gallente Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Gallente Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Warfare Link Specialist IV --> Leadership V (1) -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Command Ships IV -> Heavy Assault Ships IV --> Assault Ships IV ---> Engineering V ---> Mechanics V ---> Spaceship Command III -> Advanced Weapon Upgrades IV --> Weapon Upgrades V -> Wing Commander IV --> Leadership V Name: Artemis Hull: Hyperion Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: CreoDron As the largest drone developer and manufacturer in space, CreoDron has a vested interest in drone carriers. While sacrificing relatively little in the way of defensive capability, the Artimus can chew its way through surprisingly strong opponents - provided, of course, that the pilot uses top-of-the-line CreoDron drones. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 10% bonus to drone Hit Points and Damage per level, 5% bonus to armor resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Armor Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Information Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 14150 CPU: 570 Hard points: 6 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 7100 Shield Resistances: 0/50/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8800 Armor Resistances: 50/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8950 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 175m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 125 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 8 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Prerequisite Skills Primary Skills Required > Gallente Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Gallente Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Warfare Link Specialist IV --> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Logistics IV -> Spaceship Command III -> Signature Analysis V > Multitasking I -> Targeting V --> Electronics I -> Long Range Targeting V --> Electronics II > Electronics V -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V ---> Leadership V
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2010.04.29 22:23:00 - [885] MINMATAR Name: Lahar Hull: Maelstrom Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Boundless Creations Boundless Creation's ships are based on the Brutor tribe's philosophy of warfare: simply fit as much firepower onto your ship as possible. Defense systems and electronics arrays therefore tend to take a back seat to sheer annihilative potential. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Projectile Turret damage per level, 5% bonus to shield resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Signature Radius reduction per level, 7.5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret falloff per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 15% bonus to Target Painter effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 18700 CPU: 610 Hard points: 8 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 8400 Shield Resistances: 15/50/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 7750 Armor Resistances: 75/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7200 Velocity: 94m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Prerequisite Skills Primary Skills Required > Minmatar Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Minmatar Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Warfare Link Specialist IV --> Leadership V (1) -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Command Ships IV -> Heavy Assault Ships IV --> Assault Ships IV ---> Engineering V ---> Mechanics V ---> Spaceship Command III -> Advanced Weapon Upgrades IV --> Weapon Upgrades V -> Wing Commander IV --> Leadership V Name: Halberd Hull: Maelstrom Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Core Complexion Core Complexion's ships are unusual in that they favor electronics and defense over the "lots of guns" approach traditionally favored by the Minmatar. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire per level, 5% bonus to shield resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Signature Radius reduction per level, 3% bonus to Skirmish Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 High / 7 Mid / 5 Low / 2 rig Power Grid: 18100 CPU: 610 Hard points: 6 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 8400 Shield Resistances: 15/50/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 7750 Armor Resistances: 75/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7200 Velocity: 94m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 8 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Prerequisite Skills Primary Skills Required > Minmatar Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Minmatar Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Warfare Link Specialist IV --> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Logistics IV -> Spaceship Command III -> Signature Analysis V > Multitasking I -> Targeting V --> Electronics I -> Long Range Targeting V --> Electronics II > Electronics V -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V ---> Leadership V
Xtover Amarr	Posted - 2010.04.30 03:28:00 - [886] Why did you gimp the number of caldari launchers/turrets?
Tarik Ordway	Posted - 2010.04.30 04:01:00 - [887] Originally by: Balor Haliquin GALLENTE Name: Artemis Hull: Hyperion Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: CreoDron As the largest drone developer and manufacturer in space, CreoDron has a vested interest in drone carriers. While sacrificing relatively little in the way of defensive capability, the Artimus can chew its way through surprisingly strong opponents - provided, of course, that the pilot uses top-of-the-line CreoDron drones. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 10% bonus to drone Hit Points and Damage per level, 5% bonus to armor resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Armor Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Information Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 14150 CPU: 570 Hard points: 6 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 7100 Shield Resistances: 0/50/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8800 Armor Resistances: 50/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8950 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 175m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 125 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 8 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Prerequisite Skills Primary Skills Required > Gallente Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Gallente Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Warfare Link Specialist IV --> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Logistics IV -> Spaceship Command III -> Signature Analysis V > Multitasking I -> Targeting V --> Electronics I -> Long Range Targeting V --> Electronics II > Electronics V -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V ---> Leadership V You do realize that by giving them 10% to drone damage, and 125 bandwidth, you're not gimping their DPS at all, while for every single other ship the DPS is lower than the base ship. Either lower the bandwidth to 100, or reduce drone damage like you've done for others and make it either 5% or 7.5%.
ZiYauRen Gallente RedShift Limited Sang Do Oligarchic Democracy	Posted - 2010.04.30 18:46:00 - [888] I have been thinking about the 'command ship' concept in EVE for some time and have seen many excellent concepts reagarding this... yours among them. After examining your declared purposes, development scenario, and causus belli (so to speak)... I find myself pondering a fatal flaw in your basic assumptions. I admire your work and the logic of it but you should abandon the battleship concepts you are currently pursuing. Instead, begin pondering the possibilities regarding T3 versions of your concept in the BC and BS category. Tech three will most likely develop in a fashion that makes your concept ships unviable and redundant in the long term. Therein lies the fatal flaw. These ships will never be developed or seriously considered by CCP because their 'slot' is already taken. As much as I would like to see some of these concept ships or something like them fly the fact is that if we get this sort of thing it will be in tech three. The fashion in which ship development is proceeding in EVE negates any serious chance that these ships will ever pass beyond the concepts displayed here. That is likely why CCP has never responded here. If they disagree I would love to be set straight by them but doubt that will happen. Dam good concepts and work though.
Ysp Amai	Posted - 2010.05.01 02:49:00 - [889] Caldari ships get the highest number of missile launchers for their class. The only other ships that have the same or more then the number of missile slots as the Tsunami are the Raven Navy Issue (faction) State Issue Raven (only 4 of those) and if you count it Golem (Tech 2 mission runner). The only one that is of concern is the Golem. The ship is designed for PvP and thus it should not infringe on the Golem's DPS. That is why the Tsunami gets one more missile launcher, to give it some punch but not become a potential replacement mission runner. The other Caldari flagship, the Bastion, has the issue of needing a DPS nerf but has no DPS bonus from which it can be achieved easily. Therefor the removal of a turret does the job. The nerf that the Artimus has is a bit more complex. Yes it can drop a full wing of heavy drones or sentry drones. But it has limited capacity for guns. This means 2 things; you can strip the ship of drones and thus half of its DPS, and you are inherantly limited by the range of the drones. Anything less then a 10% bonus to drone hit points and damage would make the ship something of an anathema. The idea of a T3 Battleship has been floated in here before. But there are several issues with this. The Flagships are hyper specific as tho their role and concept. The Strategic Battleships are by nature overly versitle. The very concept of the Strategic Battleship is rather alien to these ships. I would love to see them in game. But these ships are designed entirely around the T2 concept of ship design.
ZiYauRen Gallente RedShift Limited Sang Do Oligarchic Democracy	Posted - 2010.05.01 12:06:00 - [890] Originally by: Ysp Amai The idea of a T3 Battleship has been floated in here before. But there are several issues with this. The Flagships are hyper specific as tho their role and concept. The Strategic Battleships are by nature overly versitle. The very concept of the Strategic Battleship is rather alien to these ships. I would love to see them in game. But these ships are designed entirely around the T2 concept of ship design. None of that rebutts the assumption that a new line of t2 ships is a line of development no longer under consideration. I used the word 'if' not because I think you will see these in t3 but because it is probably the only way you will ever see them. Which as I implied/said... is unlikely. My point was simply that the time would be better spent on something possible, however unlikely. It has nothing to do with the quality of the concept or the ships presented. They are great... but will never happen.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2010.05.01 19:47:00 - [891] Ahh, I misunderstood you. I often ask myself why I bother with keeping up and updating. But I suppose its in the vain hope that this idea will make it into the game.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2010.06.16 23:09:00 - [892] bump comments please
Kethry Avenger PIE Inc.	Posted - 2010.06.16 23:45:00 - [893] Still support this idea. Especially as fleet fights get larger and larger, and T3 ships can support tanks of close to 1,000,000 HP. No reason not to have a fleet support ship that isn't a Titan. Also I just want my Khanid Battleship.
Minkert Caldari Firebird Squadron	Posted - 2010.06.17 01:15:00 - [894] √√
LaVoi	Posted - 2010.07.12 06:06:00 - [895] activates Necro lazers What? Wtb Flagships in game!
Reais Minmatar Lynx Frontier Inc.	Posted - 2010.07.12 07:59:00 - [896] Originally by: Balor Haliquin this was exactly my intention, they are tough, but not imortal. As far as DPS they are about 15% better then standard Battleship and about 10% more than a Command Ship. I was going to try and do all the skill requirements for all of the ships but as it took me about 6 hours of calculating all the stats based off of the Battle Cruiser to Command Ship leap. And doing that for all the races plus balancing bonuses . I decided to just do basic skills that prity much all of the Heavy Command Ships would need. I'll have the full skill requirements that i can come up with as soon as i have free time. Thanks for the complement on the names. The only one im not happy with is the Minmatar fleet ship, the Halbred just does not seem to do it justice.. was gonna call it the Standard, as in Battle Standard. But alass i went with Halbred for some reason. "Only" a 15% bonus in DPS over Standard BS. This goes against your whole idea of "less damage, more tank & uber command skills" I think they should do at least 15% less dps than Standard BSs of their base, and have superior tanks to help withstand sustained fire. (Stay alive, let the mates do the killing and help them stay alive)
1600 RT	Posted - 2010.07.12 08:07:00 - [897] i think the caldari combat flagship with 7 launchers and 2 bonus to dps would be a bit OP, the raven already do a lot of dps with only 6 launcher and 1 bonus. expecially when the other combat ships are getting a bit nerfed changing their dps bonus from 5% to 3%
Reais Minmatar Lynx Frontier Inc.	Posted - 2010.07.12 08:07:00 - [898] Originally by: Rjaiajik Kajvoril Not really. It's powerful compared to other ships however when you consider you need a level of skill approaching that of a capital ship to pilot it it's really not that powerful when you really think about it. Look at a dread or carrier, they have hundreds of thousands of HP where as the average battleship has what about 8 thousand... that's without tanking at all. If you can justify something with the "health" (for lack of a better word) of more than 200 battleships then you should be able to justify this ship for a very similar level of skill training. My chars are about as skilled as they come... so yea, it sure would be nice if I could be all exclusive and justify having a gankmobile that is better in every single way than any ship in the BS class than can be fielded by anyone with less cash and SP than me. But in the interest of having a game that is playable and has some rock-paper-scissors to it: This ship is OVERPOWERED. It should not be better than a BS on its own. Its a fleet command ship - the only time it should be better is when its doing its thing within a fleet.
Reais Minmatar Lynx Frontier Inc.	Posted - 2010.07.12 08:36:00 - [899] Originally by: Balor Haliquin In all honesty im looking at what you prepose and not seeing show they would be a more effective fleet command ship. You are giving them bonuses to remote repair/energy transfer/shield transfer and cutting their guns in half. What is to prevent this ship from sitting in a tower in the system and just giving bonuses? As it stands they will fall apart just as fast as their T1 counterparts. They need a tank bonus to make them harder to kill. Not to mention a hit point boost. I like the remote repair gang bonus but realize that that already exsists in the form of gang warfare modules. Also note that the tier 2 battleships already have a tech 2 version. Why do they need another one? That being said im not against a battleships size logistics ship. Perhaps we should look at the remote rep bonus in a different light. How about - to provide added survivability to the Flagship, you make it so it gets bonuses to the amount of repair it RECIEVES from remote reping. I think this would make it more survivable - but only in a really small niche... I don't really like it all and all, but its just an idea to add to the dialogue.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2010.07.21 23:06:00 - [900] Sorry for the long absence on this page. There has been the small issue of a war going on and real life. I think you misunderstand what I meant by 15% over the standard battleship. The standard battleships for tier 3 with a damage bonus get 5% per level. With battleships at level 5 that means a 25% bonus. With flagships, the ship gets a 3% bonus to damage. This means at level 5, the ships gets a 15% bonus. This make the ship have 10% less DPS. Also considering the more constrained fitting stats to work with. Yes you get an extra slot but with less CPU and PG. This means that it is harder to fit that extra Heat Sink or Gyrostabilizer. Considering the Command Ship is easily at the level of a battleship, I think that the flagship is not even approching the level of damage or tank of a capital. In fact I think there are some faction ships that could easily solo kill a flagship. Okay I can see how the bonus to kinetic damage plus the rate if fire bonus is easily catching and passing the raven even if it is only with one damage type. I'll reduce the kinetic damage bonus to 3% per level or change it all together. I am not sure that a bonus to amount repaired to ship would be feasible. I seem to remember an idea for a similar bonus and a dev commenting that the game simply does not work that way. In big fleet combat its always about static HP. The super self repairing ships just die too fast. The Hyperion almost never shows its face in numbers due to the inability to properly buffer tank it and have good DPS output. I want the ships to be a brick wall of hit points but not impossible to burn through. By the best math I can do without the aid of EFT or other such programs, a Requiem could manage 875 DPS with drones and have about 250,000 effective HP with Tech 2 modules. But the fitting seems to be rather tight. That goes up against an Abaddon with 1080 DPS and 157,000 effective hit points for 1/5th the cost. Both have the same range and about the same mobility. If both ships engaged each other, all things being equile, the Abaddon would die but the Requiem would be in structure. Keep up the input, ill try and change what I can and incorperate what I can to keep the idea rolling.
Jenna Fenlay	Posted - 2010.07.24 23:14:00 - [901] So I read a few posts, then my eyes began to hurt. I apologize if my idea has already been posted. I have a character trained to use as many command modules as a command ship can hold. That effectively means that my command ship will not see front-line action. I haven't been in a command role in a mega fleet fight yet, but I imagine that I would be hiding somewhere in space, warping around safe spots while passively giving everyone bonuses. Why not have a whole new take on the flagship and instead of hiding in the back throwing out bonuses, the pilot can actually take the role of a flagship captain. In the same vein of Planetary Interaction, add a new interface to combat. Perhaps some kind of overlay that would allow the flagship captain to monitor the front-lines from his/her little hill. Some kind of game mechanic or drone or a link to another ship would allow this person to become master of the battlefield. Maybe the flagship can specifically target a few allied ships and give massive temporary bonuses to them. Another of my ideas is to have fighter-sized logistic drones (for the warp drive). Carrier pilots can then assign them to the flagship which in turn can remotely heal other ships. Something else that comes to mind as I type is to have the flagship be able to mark way-points in space near the battle and give commands like "snipers set up position here" or "interdictors, fall back and await my signal".
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2010.07.26 03:40:00 - [902] It has been my experience that Command Ships rarely if ever stay back from the main group and just give bonuses. In the end the vast majority of Command Ship pilot, myself included, fly the ship into combat because in the end its another ship that can put DPS on target and we are all massive kill mail *****. So the idea of command ships sitting at a safe tower some where seems to me to be the exception rather then the rule. In addition it should be said that the number of Command Ships leaving station and going into combat with nothing but tank and gank is far more common then Command Ships leaving station with warfare links and being put into gang position. This is what I would expect to see with the Flagships. Mostly people taking them out to go ganking with little concern about the fleet bonuses. In that frame of mind, the ships would need to be significantly more geared towards the fleet bonuses. This is why all the ships have a stock fleet bonus that does not require any modules. In the same light, the ships don't nearly have the same level of upgrade that the Command Ships have. In fact the Command ships will be a lot faster and far more easy to maneuver then the Flagships due to size and mass. There was a lot of people over the course of the forums that pointed out how the original designs would overshadow the Command Ships. So a lot of nerfing took place to make them far more palatable and far less overpowered. The idea of a new style of command infrastructure has been suggested before. However I think that is a change that should be put into the game through the fleet manager. I do not think that the Flagship, given current game mechanics, be able to apply such mechanic. As for making way points in space, well that is the job of a good covert ops pilot and or interceptor pilot making off grid bookmarked location. Its not easy but its a very quick and simple way to do it. A good fleet commander would make sure to have those book marks ready to go. Good thinking, keep the ideas rolling in.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2010.09.22 18:45:00 - [903] bump
Malcofist Falconpunch	Posted - 2010.10.28 13:25:00 - [904] Posting something that contributes. Which is a bump.
Ogogov Gallente Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2010.10.28 16:23:00 - [905] A falloff bonus for Blasters - really?? Change to optimal range bonus. Also info warfare link bonus is terrible and ought to be a Caldari bonus if anything (since, you know... Caldari ships a la Scorpion and Falcon actually use EWAR) but I suppose one faction has to get the stinker either way.
Insane Randomness	Posted - 2010.12.23 03:32:00 - [906] Bump, cause of epicness...
Alvin Exe Corporation.exe	Posted - 2010.12.23 16:00:00 - [907] Bump of a cool and constructive thread. Also, supporting.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2010.12.27 20:59:00 - [908] I have to agree with the irony of having Caldari ships use ECM yet in order to get a fleet bonus they have to use Gallente ships. I bit of an irony to say the least. As for the blaster bonuses, I'm only doing them that way because of presidence. All of the other Gallente ships that provide a bonus seem to do it with falloff. I could have overlooked something. Thanks for the bumping of this thread. Sorry I have been rather busy lately and have not had tome to contribute to this thread. I will try and do some revisions when I have free time.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2011.01.08 05:40:00 - [909] After looking things over i have noted that the Tsunami is the only ship in the group that gets 2x Damage bonuses. This was pointed out to me before but i failed to see it. Expect this to change soon. Probably 5% bonus to to Explosion Velocity of Cruise Missiles and Torpedos per level. I was thinking about a range bonus but I'm not sure right now.
Glyken Touchon Independent Alchemists	Posted - 2011.01.08 11:19:00 - [910] here's a bonus you may want to consider: effectiveness of remote sensor boosters.
Bill Serkoff2	Posted - 2011.01.08 20:29:00 - [911] I like all of these, specially the black, torp-spewing Abaddon. I approve of this thread. Also, give the Minmatar missile ship cruise bonuses instead of torp? Maels tend to fit arties, which are long-range, lik cruises.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2011.01.09 05:22:00 - [912] Remote Sensor Boosting bonus has been given to the Gallente. It matches their race better. I'm not entirely sure why I would give a missile bonus to a Minmatar gun boat. As far as I know the Minmatar completely lack a missile battleship. Well as in one that is designed around missiles.
Krystal Flores Amarr Sinister Elite Supremacy.	Posted - 2011.01.11 01:26:00 - [913] I cant seem to think of anything cooler than a black, torp-spewing Abaddon, i dont think i can, its just that cool.
Bill Serkoff2	Posted - 2011.01.11 01:45:00 - [914] Edited by: Bill Serkoff2 on 11/01/2011 01:46:41 Bamp. Originally by: Balor Haliquin Remote Sensor Boosting bonus has been given to the Gallente. It matches their race better. I'm not entirely sure why I would give a missile bonus to a Minmatar gun boat. As far as I know the Minmatar completely lack a missile battleship. Well as in one that is designed around missiles. Oh, whoops, I thought each race had a missiles flagship and a turret flagship. Btw, Minmatar should have a missiles flagship.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2011.01.11 17:49:00 - [915] Well for only two races it makes sense to give them dedicated missile boats. Amarr have the Khanid ships which were all turned into some form of missile boat about 3 years ago. So hence the Amarr having one. The Caldari are based around missiles and in a sense the rail boats are the odd ships in their fleet. None the less any Ishukone ship is now always a rail boat, and any Kaalakiota boat is always a missile thrower. The Gallente don't have a missile boat, instead they have a Drone boat in the form of the ship from CreoDron. Finally we come to the Minmatar. I have been trying to figure out what the differences are between the three developers in the Minmatar Republic. But it really comes down to you have a choice of an Artillery ship, a Autocannon ship, or an Artillery ship. They really don't have a dedicated missile boat, but they have a few split weapon system ships (IE even missiles and turrets). But in the end all the T2 Minmatar ships tend to favor guns over missiles.
Bill Serkoff2	Posted - 2011.01.11 20:29:00 - [916] Well then since the Amarr boat is torps, then the Caldari boat should be cruiser specialized, right?
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2011.01.13 16:44:00 - [917] After going through and look at the bonuses Caldari tech 2 ships tend to get for missile boats, they do not seem to specify as specifically as Khanid ships. Khanid ships tend to really focus on on specific missile system, while Caldari ships tend to focus on a class of missiles. So allowing the Caldari a bonus to all of the battleship class missiles (Cruise Missiles and Torpedos) seems to be will within line.
Ysp Amai	Posted - 2011.03.29 22:48:00 - [918] AMARR Name: Requiem Hull: Abaddon Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Carthum Conglomerate Carthum ships are the very embodiment of the Amarrian warfare philosophy. Possessing sturdy armor and advanced weapons systems, they provide a nice mix of offense and defense. On the other hand, their electronics and shield systems tend to be rather limited. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Energy Turret damage per level, 5% bonus armor Resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Capacitor Recharge Rate per level, 5% bonus to Large Energy Turret capacitor cost per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 15% bonus to Tracking Link and Tracking Computer effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 4 mid / 8 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 20700 CPU: 530 Hard points: 8 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 6850 Shield Resistances: 0/65/52.5/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 9300 Armor Resistances: 50/35/37.5/35 Hull HP: 8200 Velocity: 89m/s Drone Bay: 75m^3s Drone Bandwidth: 75 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6375 Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 80km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Radar 22 Signature Radius: 480m Scanner Resolution: 85 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Fusion 8 Prerequisite Skills Primary Skills Required > Amarr Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Amarr Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Warfare Link Specialist IV --> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Command Ships IV -> Heavy Assault Ships IV --> Assault Ships IV ---> Engineering V ---> Mechanics V ---> Spaceship Command III -> Advanced Weapon Upgrades IV --> Weapon Upgrades V -> Wing Commander IV --> Leadership V Name: Vanquisher Hull: Abaddon Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Khanid Innovations In addition to robust electronics systems, the Khanid Kingdom's ships possess advanced armor alloys capable of withstanding a great deal of punishment. Generally eschewing the use of turrets, they tend to gear their vessels more towards close-range missile combat. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Torpedo explosion velocity per level, 5% bonus to armor Resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Capacitor Recharge Rate per level, 3% bonus to effectiveness of Armored Warfare Links module per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 5 mid / 7 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 19500 CPU: 530 Hard points: 1 Turret/6 Launcher Shield HP: 7650 Shield Resistances: 0/65/52.5/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8600 Armor Resistances: 50/35/37.5/35 Hull HP: 8100 Velocity: 89m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3s Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6375 Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 80km Maximum Lock: 8 Sensor Strength: Radar 22 Signature Radius: 480m Scanner Resolution: 85 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Fusion 8 Prerequisite Skills Primary Skills Required > Amarr Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Amarr Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Warfare Link Specialist IV --> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Logistics IV -> Spaceship Command III -> Signature Analysis V > Multitasking I -> Targeting V --> Electronics I -> Long Range Targeting V --> Electronics II > Electronics V -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V ---> Leadership V
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2011.03.29 22:51:00 - [919] CALDARI Name: Tsunami Hull: Rokh Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Kaalakiota As befits one of the largest weapons manufacturers in the known world, Kaalakiota's ships are very combat focused. Favoring the traditional Caldari combat strategy, they are designed around a substantial number of weapons systems, especially missile launchers. However, they have rather weak armor and structure, relying more on shields for protection. Cladari Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Missile Launcher rate of fire per level, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Points per level, 5% bonus to missile Explosion Velocity per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 15% bonus to ECCM and Remote ECCM effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 7 mid / 5 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 13500 CPU: 825 Hard points: 0 Turret/7 Launcher Shield HP: 9550 Shield Resistances: 0/50/52.5/35 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6600 Armor Resistances: 50/10/37.5/60 Hull HP: 7700 Velocity: 89m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Prerequisite Skills Primary Skill Required > Caldari Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Caldari Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Warfare Link Specialist IV --> Leadership V (1) -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Command Ships IV -> Heavy Assault Ships IV --> Assault Ships IV ---> Engineering V ---> Mechanics V ---> Spaceship Command III -> Advanced Weapon Upgrades IV --> Weapon Upgrades V -> Wing Commander IV --> Leadership V Name: Bastion Hull: Rohk Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Ishukone Most of the recent designs off their assembly line have provided for a combination that the Ishukone name is becoming known for great long-range capabilities and shield systems unmatched anywhere else. Caldari Battleship Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range per level, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Siege Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 14900 CPU: 750 Hard points: 7 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 9550 Shield Resistances: 0/50/52.5/35 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6950 Armor Resistances: 50/10/37.5/60 Hull HP: 7350 Velocity: 89m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 8 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Prerequisite Skills Primary Skills Required > Caldari Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Caldari Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Warfare Link Specialist IV --> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Logistics IV -> Spaceship Command III -> Signature Analysis V > Multitasking I -> Targeting V --> Electronics I -> Long Range Targeting V --> Electronics II > Electronics V -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V ---> Leadership V
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2011.03.29 22:53:00 - [920] GALLENTE Name: Athena Hull: Hyperion Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Roden Shipyards Unlike most Gallente ship manufacturers, Roden Shipyards tends to favor missiles over drones and their ships are generally faster than other Gallente ships in their class. They generally have a substantial amount of hull modification options but limited electronic systems. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Hybrid Turrets damage per level, 5% bonus to armor resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Armor Hit Points per level, 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret falloff per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 15% bonus to Sensor Booster and Remote Sensor Booster effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 5 mid / 7 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 15650 CPU: 570 Hard points: 8 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 7100 Shield Resistances: 0/50/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8550 Armor Resistances: 50/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 9200 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Prerequisite Skills Primary Skills Required > Gallente Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Gallente Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Warfare Link Specialist IV --> Leadership V (1) -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Command Ships IV -> Heavy Assault Ships IV --> Assault Ships IV ---> Engineering V ---> Mechanics V ---> Spaceship Command III -> Advanced Weapon Upgrades IV --> Weapon Upgrades V -> Wing Commander IV --> Leadership V Name: Artemis Hull: Hyperion Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: CreoDron As the largest drone developer and manufacturer in space, CreoDron has a vested interest in drone carriers. While sacrificing relatively little in the way of defensive capability, the Artimus can chew its way through surprisingly strong opponents - provided, of course, that the pilot uses top-of-the-line CreoDron drones. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 10% bonus to drone Hit Points and Damage per level, 5% bonus to armor resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Armor Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Information Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 14150 CPU: 570 Hard points: 6 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 7100 Shield Resistances: 0/50/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8800 Armor Resistances: 50/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8950 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 175m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 125 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 8 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Prerequisite Skills Primary Skills Required > Gallente Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Gallente Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Warfare Link Specialist IV --> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Logistics IV -> Spaceship Command III -> Signature Analysis V > Multitasking I -> Targeting V --> Electronics I -> Long Range Targeting V --> Electronics II > Electronics V -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V ---> Leadership V
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2011.03.29 22:55:00 - [921] MINMATAR Name: Lahar Hull: Maelstrom Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Boundless Creations Boundless Creation's ships are based on the Brutor tribe's philosophy of warfare: simply fit as much firepower onto your ship as possible. Defense systems and electronics arrays therefore tend to take a back seat to sheer annihilative potential. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Projectile Turret damage per level, 5% bonus to shield resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Signature Radius reduction per level, 7.5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret falloff per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 15% bonus to Target Painter effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 18700 CPU: 610 Hard points: 8 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 8400 Shield Resistances: 15/50/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 7750 Armor Resistances: 75/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7200 Velocity: 94m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Prerequisite Skills Primary Skills Required > Minmatar Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Minmatar Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Warfare Link Specialist IV --> Leadership V (1) -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Command Ships IV -> Heavy Assault Ships IV --> Assault Ships IV ---> Engineering V ---> Mechanics V ---> Spaceship Command III -> Advanced Weapon Upgrades IV --> Weapon Upgrades V -> Wing Commander IV --> Leadership V Name: Halberd Hull: Maelstrom Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Core Complexion Core Complexion's ships are unusual in that they favor electronics and defense over the "lots of guns" approach traditionally favored by the Minmatar. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire per level, 5% bonus to shield resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Signature Radius reduction per level, 3% bonus to Skirmish Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 High / 7 Mid / 5 Low / 2 rig Power Grid: 18100 CPU: 610 Hard points: 6 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 8400 Shield Resistances: 15/50/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 7750 Armor Resistances: 75/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7200 Velocity: 94m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 8 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Prerequisite Skills Primary Skills Required > Minmatar Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Minmatar Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Warfare Link Specialist IV --> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Logistics IV -> Spaceship Command III -> Signature Analysis V > Multitasking I -> Targeting V --> Electronics I -> Long Range Targeting V --> Electronics II > Electronics V -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V ---> Leadership V
Killiades Caldari Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2011.04.10 22:45:00 - [922] good ideas mate, has my vote... hope to see these introduced dude! keep it up Offendo sicco procul qui peto praelior vobis per ferocia of mille proeliator , illi mos non tribuo vos subterlabor
Andski GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.04.11 13:09:00 - [923] Love your idea, but "Tsunami" doesn't sound like a Caldari hull name. In general, Caldari ships are named after creatures (real and mythical), Gallente ship names are from mythology (especially Greek), Amarr ship names are of biblical origin, and Minmatar ship names are all over the map (animals, weapons, Nordic mythology, ~violence~) Tsunami would sound more like a Minmatar ship, to be honest. Something like "Shahrokh" would be more fitting.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2011.04.13 19:23:00 - [924] You do have a point about the name. I was more going for more the Japanese theme more then anything. Suggestions are welcome.
ilammy Red Alliance	Posted - 2011.04.13 19:53:00 - [925] Edited by: ilammy on 13/04/2011 19:53:51 Originally by: Andski In general, Caldari ships are named after creatures (real and mythical) And mostly birds, or anything else with wings. How 'bout Ostrich? ───────────────── <3 logistics
Yulinki Atavuli Minmatar GZS-R Minmatar Fleet	Posted - 2011.04.13 21:02:00 - [926] Originally by: Balor Haliquin Edited by: Balor Haliquin on 21/04/2008 16:03:43 Flagship Flagships are designed for use in large fleet combat situations as the central command vessel for the fleet in a system. They depend on their massive defenses to make sure that they stay in the fight and support the fleet for as long as possible. Ships of these types are expensive to field but give a fleet unprecedented tactical advantage. These ships are the pride of any navy in the field. Isn't a titan, carrier or a logistics ship a "flagship"? really any of these could be used for one, and fits your "definition" quite well. they all have high EHP and used for supporting the fleet in multiple ways.
DrysonBennington	Posted - 2011.04.14 02:05:00 - [927] Titans, Carriers and Dreds are all Flagships. But none of these class of ships can be used in High Sector. Any design for a real Flagship should be able to be used in High Sector. The design should revolve around a ship able to fight if necessary while being able to defend itself while on solo operations and provide logistical support when in fleet manuever's.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2011.04.28 04:15:00 - [928] It should be noted that I stated before that "Flagship" just happened to be the most catchy name that came up with for the class. it is an attempt to describe the class and what it is intended for. The first name that these ships had was "Heavy Command Ship" but I felt that it sounded a bit campy. Granted that name fits in with the conventional way things are done (Assault Ships becomes a Heavy Assault Ship, Interdictor becomes a Heavy Interdictor) but that pattern has been changed with some more recent expansions (Electronic Attack Ship becomes Recon Ship) and some other examples. It just makes it more complex. The entire concept of the Flagship is to provide unique fleet bonuses along with warfare link capabilities, to fleets that are either incapable of gaining support from a titan or other capital due to many reasons. Some of the reasons are rather simple. Shelling out the isk for a titan that is married to a pilot and can never tread into high sec is one major issue. Another is that capitals are rather hard to move and require a lot of preperation to move them. Allowing a ship to be with the sub capital fleet providing a bonus that is near the calibure of a titan would really help sub capital fleets out. However, they are clearly going to be easy targets with smaller and faster fleets. And they are going to be bullet magnets. So you gain a lot but you risk a lot.
Bonn Marto	Posted - 2011.05.16 22:47:00 - [929] Edited by: Bonn Marto on 16/05/2011 22:47:29 Holy ****! I had, like, this EXACT same idea. Not quite, but ... damn. Really effing close. I think it's a sign from the cosmos or something. Hey CCP: it might be time to implement T2 tier 3 BSs with command link bonuses and call them Flagships. I'd love to hear what you think of mine. http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1504578

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