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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Balor Haliquin
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.07.20 18:50:00 -
[781]
If its about making smaller ships doomsday proof, I'm rather afraid to say that under battleships there are only a few ships that can manage that feat. And the issue is that a 30% bonus to resistances verses a full skilled doomsday is still going to mean that they are dead. I think the doomsday issue is something meant for a defence field cruiser or something like that.
As for the HP bonus for more ships in fleet, I have to agree. It could easily be used for a fleet of 200 ships making themselves impossible to kill. And of course the only way to kill them would be a 300 man fleet. And so on and so on. Blob warfare is here to stay, it is a viable tactic how ever unfair it may seem.
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Bloody2k
Gallente
SCHWARZSCHILD.
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Posted - 2009.07.21 10:44:00 -
[782]
Edited by: Bloody2k on 21/07/2009 10:45:37
What I mean is not that each Ship in Fleet gets the HP Bonus. What I mean is that just the
Flagship will get more HP/Resi, the more Ships in Fleets are. So the Enemy first have to get
down the fleet to weak the flagship(and theyr bonis)!
Signature needs to be EVE related, please change. ~Weatherman |
Balor Haliquin
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.07.21 20:19:00 -
[783]
Right bu think of this. If the fleet was made up of a majority a flagships, and they all had this bonus. Then you would have a fleet that has capital level hit points with the maneuverability of a battleship fleet. Just pointing out how your idea can be exploited.
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Bloody2k
Gallente
SCHWARZSCHILD.
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Posted - 2009.07.21 21:22:00 -
[784]
I was of the opinion, that only 1 Flagship in fleet is allowed.
Signature needs to be EVE related, please change. ~Weatherman |
Balor Haliquin
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.07.21 21:28:00 -
[785]
There is not way currently in the game mechanics to prevent more then one ships type of the fleet. So it is possible for multiple flagships to be in the same fleet.
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Bloody2k
Gallente
SCHWARZSCHILD.
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Posted - 2009.07.21 21:33:00 -
[786]
Crazy...it is not possible? May you give them a parameter 1 and all other ships 0.
and max allowed value in gang is 1. That is not possible...but it is possible to
insert 2000+ WH systems...? absolutly crazy.
Signature needs to be EVE related, please change. ~Weatherman |
Balor Haliquin
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.07.22 01:19:00 -
[787]
To be fair, I would be rather annoyed if suddenly ships were limited in a fleet. I like the fact that I'm not limited in any arbitrary way in what I can fly dependent on what other people brought into the fleet or system. The more rules of engagment I have to deal with, the less I like something.
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Markus Reese
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.07.22 04:36:00 -
[788]
Been a while since I have been in this thread, whoo. Well, first off, I recommend everybody read the brainstorm about how to reduce blob mechanics. While blobbing is viable, it certainly isn't fun. Specially with spies etc. As for the resistance/ship bonus, is an easy way to encorporate. "Ship receives xxxxx bonus when asigned the Fleet Booster" Can have more than one in the fleet, but only one at the time receives the defence bonus, or a greater bonus depending on which booster it is asigned to.
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Balor Haliquin
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.07.23 04:39:00 -
[789]
While an interesting idea. I'm not sure I want the flagship to become so uber tanked that it ends up being the fist in and last out in a fleet. As in I see a flagship and go after all the easy to kill targets first. That way I can waste all the time in the world hammering the flagship into nothing. And in all honesty I think the ship should stay within the bounds of the current ship setups. Even the new tech 3 does little to rock the boat as far as bonus mechanics go. And I am willing to guess that it because the current mechanic works really well.
That being said here is my idea of what the Amarr Blueprint Originals/Copies might look like.
Blueprint Orginal/Copy
AMARR
Requiem Blueprint ORIGINAL
Skill Requirement
Amarrian Starship Engineering IV
> Science V
> Mechanics V
Battleship Construction IV
> Cruiser Construction IV
-> Mechanics III
-> Frigate Construction IV
--> Mechanics I
--> Industry II
Industry V
Mechanical Engineering IV
> Science V
> Mechanics V
Bill of Materials
Antimatter Reactor Unit [3600]
Abaddon [1]
Construction Blocks [405]
Fusion Thruster [1824]
Linear Shield Emitters [4290]
Morphite [925]
Nanoelectrical Microprocessor [1345]
Radar Sensor Cluster [1202]
Tesseract Capacitor Unit [2109]
Tungsten Carbide Armor Plate [8230]
Vanquisher Blueprint ORIGINAL
Skill Requirement
Amarrian Starship Engineering IV
> Science V
> Mechanics V
Battleship Construction IV
> Cruiser Construction IV
-> Mechanics III
-> Frigate Construction IV
--> Mechanics I
--> Industry II
Industry V
Mechanical Engineering IV
> Science V
> Mechanics V
Bill of Materials
Antimatter Reactor Unit [2950]
Abaddon [1]
Construction Blocks [405]
Fusion Thruster [1690]
Linear Shield Emitters [5125]
Morphite [925]
Nanoelectrical Microprocessor [1867]
Radar Sensor Cluster [1202]
Tesseract Capacitor Unit [1978]
Tungsten Carbide Armor Plate [7542]
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Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2009.07.23 06:01:00 -
[790]
blobbing has to go down into the causes of it happening, the so called numbers games, there really arent that many 'force' multipliers that would help out either. I doubt these ships are not the answer to such. If i wasnt so busy on my SOE idea i would work on making a new system that would reduce the need to blob.
Basically it has to do with objectvies that you wouldnt bother sending a blob against but it still a viable target to go after, something smaller strike groups could go after without so much attention paving the way for the larger blobs.
Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 17JUL09 |
Iron Cog
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Posted - 2009.07.23 06:05:00 -
[791]
Edited by: Iron Cog on 23/07/2009 06:06:26
Im impressed with the devotion you all have put toward this concept and i for one would like to see a true command ship, not just a small-gang booster.
I think the required skills are off a bit tho, as well as some of the bonuses the ships receive. I think that Fleet Commander IV be required. As with most T2 items you have to have the primary at IV.
I think the bonus should be dependent on the Skill level of the required new skill(which you have dubbed flagships, but i think more appropriately should be called Navy Commander). i.e. a 3% bonus to all command ships boosting abilities in fleet, Changing the role of the ship from being primary booster to a booster of the boosters. This would keep the command ships currently in game from being left to collect dust in the hangers, not to mention making it less of a target and more appealing for an FC to sit in.
Anyways just some ideas, hopefully you all will take these ideas and refine them and incorporate them.
Will keep reading :)
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Markus Reese
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.07.23 06:17:00 -
[792]
Edited by: Markus Reese on 23/07/2009 06:18:12
Boost to boosters, now that could be interesting. As can be seen in all variant eve classes, one thing ccp has kept is that a larger ship does not displace it's smaller brethern, ie dictors vs hictors. So The idea of this ship boosting the bonuses of command ships, could be useful, or possibly a reverse booster. Say ship in wing applies it's bonuses to other wings. Something to help reduce command breakdown if fleet booster tree gets disrupted. Would be nice to bring the command ships into battle, have it work so it only applies to boosters on grid maybe?
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HeliosGal
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Posted - 2009.07.23 08:47:00 -
[793]
arent the flagships in the database meant to be the new tech 2 carriers with pilotable frigates that launch from a mini ship bay ?
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Balor Haliquin
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.07.23 18:14:00 -
[794]
Well there are some great force multipliers out there. And many people have complained about how overpowering they are and they have all been slowly ground down. You might remember the old Curse and Falcon, they could single handedly chance the course of a battle just by jamming the right ship or draining the right ship absolutely dry. The current big force multiplier is are the Titans, they have the ability to simply negate an enemy fleet. And in all honesty, the force multiplier in the fleet is usually the ship that the enemy was ever equipped to deal with. But that gets into an argument about economy of force. The Falcon and Curse were nerfed primarily because they had the ability to render any ship completely useless, so in effect they became the much feared solo pwn machines of lore.
When it comes to 'blob' warfare its something that no one likes but it going to be here to stay. Any way that I can think of the get rid of blob warfare either does not get rid of it in the end or makes the game into something that I don't think any of us would enjoy. the argument should not be how to get rid of blob warfare, but rather how to change it to make it a bit more dynamic. As it is I rather enjoy the few big blob battles that I have been in. They were not everyone piling in on one target, it was more like 5 100 man battles across the system.
As for strike teams? Well they already exsist in the game. They just need a bit of refining on the ships that are meant for them and people need to start learning how to use them. These are of course the recon gangs with a Black ops a support.
The Flagship is a place holder name for these ships. It sounded fancy and neat at the time, but I'm seriously debating calling them Heavy Command Ships. I just happen to like the sound of Flagships better. The skill book 'Flagships' is in the database and used to have the description 'Allows the piloting of capital command carriers, can not be trained on a trial account' but since then has lost its description to my knowledge. And no they were never meant to be ships that could have people dock in them and fly fighters out of them. That was a player idea from about a year ago.
I like the idea of a super booster, but I'm not sure how it would work. Let me play around with the idea and see what I can come up with. |
Markus Reese
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.07.24 03:34:00 -
[795]
I agree, blobbing is here to stay, but I would like to see a blob as a tactical choice more than the norm. Something to make it plausible for outnumbered to win instead of a station camp. On topic though, The flagship could say offer something not seen in eve yet, some sort of modification to your overview or tactical overlay. An extra highlight that you can colour much like your starmap, the ship icons for the dps they are dealing, etc. Just a thought. Mainly because usually the flagship is co-ordinating battles and the role of this would be as the FC but also to get into battle, not offer bonus from a pos shield. |
Balor Haliquin
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.08.08 20:47:00 -
[796]
I really cant think of anything that would be at once useful to the fleet or specifically the fleet commander, and not be sevearly game breaking. If anything a module where you could zoom in on any member of you fleet no matter where he is in the system so you can see what is going on yourself. Or have ships in you fleet display on the system map. But again those are things that I think should be avalible to anyone in the game. Not just to the fleet commander. Maybe as a new set of warfare links. One to allow you to zoom in on any member of you fleet no matter where they are in the system, one to let you see everyone on the system map, and possible one that will sound off alarms to you and anyone below you in the command structure as to when someone is being attacked or a probe is detected.
Other then that i really cant think of anything that a single unique modules would be useful for.
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Spyker NL
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Posted - 2009.08.09 13:17:00 -
[797]
i would buy 1 of those in aheartbeat.. however. i would suggest thinking up some new gang link modules and maybe make it for fleets upto an ammount of members , so you get better bonusses then say a damnation or nighthawk. but only for a gang with a seize of less then xx
that way when you go out with a group, you can ask the FC what you want me with flagship or command.  keeping both shiptypes usefull
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Balor Haliquin
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.08.09 16:13:00 -
[798]
I would point out that asking that question is still a very good question to ask. Note that the Command Ships are fast and nimble compared to the much larger and slower Flagships. Also not that the Fleet Command Ship (CS) can use 3 warfare links at once rather then the Theater Command Ship (FS) ability to use only 2. Also the Command Ship is probably much more apt to run with Heavy Assault Ship gangs and that size because it can keep up. The Flagship will more then likely run with larger ship gangs like sniper battleship gangs.
I'm thinking about making a thread that is dedicated to some new Warfare Link modules. But I have to to really think about what ones and how they will effect the game.
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Spyker NL
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Posted - 2009.08.09 19:23:00 -
[799]
your getting me wrong you should have links that give out better bonusses then say normal CS with 3 but different types of bonusses. with a maximum gang seize so a bigger fleet needs to either have multiple of these or a regular CS.
if this thing cant give better bonusses then its smaller counterpart , then their deemed useless
its needs to be badassed and usefull enough , and max gang seize wil help against the major blobs, since it gives better bonusses 
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Balor Haliquin
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.08.10 01:21:00 -
[800]
They might help with major blobs. But what about having a Flaghship in charge at their max level (say at the wing commander level) and then just placing a CS at the top. you would have a huge amount of ship bonuses going down the ranks. And it would not prevent the blob from forming. These ships are not going to prevent blobs, or make blobing worse.
I like the idea though. Ill see what i can do.
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Sethose Olderon
Deepcor
House of Mercury
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Posted - 2009.08.14 09:12:00 -
[801]
Excellent work Balor! I look forward to seeing these in the game, if the devs get to it. 
Corporate & Alliance Owned Stargates
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Balor Haliquin
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.08.18 16:26:00 -
[802]
Yah, so am I. That being said, the people from Iceland are being rather quiet about what is coming in the winter expansion. Here is to hoping its theses ships plus other goodies.
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Balor Haliquin
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.09.01 22:04:00 -
[803]
Working on newer versions of the ships right now. They should be up within the week. They will have some revisions, some sugestions made by people here, and ship descriptions should be up. Also there is a small chance I'll have the full research and BPC requirements up. But as I do not fully comprehend the logic behind them it might take me a good long time.
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Markus Reese
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.09.02 04:12:00 -
[804]
Think the most recent variations you posted are near the mark. Though the frontline I think should have the ability to fit the more weapons. Such as the rokh variation, the frontline should have the turrets and launcher, while the theater should just be the fewer launchers.
I really like the idea though that it acts as another form of leadership booster, ie stuff like the cap recharge rate improved, etc. Very good idea.
This would also change setups of ships in combat, different riggings etc.
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Markus Reese
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.09.02 04:16:00 -
[805]
 Originally by: Balor Haliquin
All the ships got their hit points reballanced so that they were inline with their respective base ships and then had 600 HP added to them. This should make them a bit more survivable.
Debating weather or not to remove the Fleet Command skill requirement for the Frontline command ships so that they have the same training time as the Theater Command Ship. But that can be discussed.
Whoops, saw this part about needing the fleet command skill. If you compare to the actual command ships, that skill is the same, it is in the secondary (or was it tertiary) where the change is different. Ie the heavy assault ship skill for field command, logistics for fleet. Both have different powers, the frontline should be more tanky/offence one would think, theatre should be the more back, eccm stuff, etc buffing to fit with the prereq skills. Both same power, but in different ways.
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Balor Haliquin
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.09.02 18:16:00 -
[806]
Yah what I'm trying to do is make the skill time as close to each other for both ships types as possible. Right now the frontline command ship takes about a month longer then the theater command ship. So I'm thinking about pulling the Fleet Commander skill for the Frontline version and pulling the wing commander skill down to Wing Commander IV. That will easily make up more then the skill training time difference.
In case you are wondering, the math that I have found works best for figureing out skill training time is the fallowing. With +4s and fairly even atributes and almost maxed learning skills a level 1 skill take 5 days to get to rank 5. for a level 2 skill it takes about 10 days. And the logic continues. When I say to rank 5, i mean from no training in the skill what so ever to the highest rank possible in total training time. So take the level of the skill (called the multiplier or rank or level depending on the skill) and multiply that number times 5 for the total time that you will need to get that skill to 5. If its level 4 then just take the multiplier in days, its not accurate but it gets you very much in the ball park. Anything less then 4 for most skills is simply not worth the time.
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Markus Reese
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.09.03 03:33:00 -
[807]
Yeah, that x8 multiplyer for wing command is a killer; fleet command needed would be near doubling of training time over something like a maurader iirc. I like your overall concept though. Acting as a fleet support but more of a defensive role with the bonuses to fleet ship operations or whatnot. Really fills a niche.
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Balor Haliquin
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.09.03 21:11:00 -
[808]
Yah I think I will be needing to revamp the entire skill requirements for the ships. They should be hard to get but I think these are bordering on the level of capital ships.
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Balor Haliquin
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.09.15 04:39:00 -
[809]
Edited by: Balor Haliquin on 15/09/2009 04:39:12
Okay so I did a bit of calculating on the current skill requirements and found something a bit desterbing. The Frontline Command Ship take about 201 days to get from no skills in any of the requirements to being able to fly the ships, that is not to say put guns on it or the like. While the Theater Command Ships take 167 to be able to hop in the ship. This is assuming that the character has maxed learning skills. So if it was a brand new character to eve I would say one would be looking at over a year for the Theater Command and a year and a half for the Frontline Command. So I'm going to have to shrink that time by a good amount. Sorry for the delay but I'm trying to rework the entire skill set requirements.
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Linden Dixon
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Posted - 2009.09.18 09:03:00 -
[810]
why not make these tech III battleships and allow for a whole range of customisable options.
I think the fleet options are great, but that could be just one option.
You could have a strategic battleship skill. But then have a higher skill requirement, by having some of the mods requiring existing advanced battleship skills, like black-ops, marauders etc.
Your Flagship skill could fit into this.
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