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Yakoff Star Scream Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.13 21:58:00 - [1] I posted this thought in another topic... Linkage But it was closed by Kieron because of political comments. So I thought I would open it up here... Don't get bounty on just destroying the npc. Have each ship drop a tag that you trade in once you dock at a station. You only get the bounty once you trade it in - available at any station. Discusss.... Flame on.... Wonder twin powers, activate.
Dred'Pirate Jesus Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2007.12.13 22:08:00 - [2] Been giving it bit of thought since that thread and I think a greatly reduced bounty on ship destruction with the remainder being paid with tags would be the best overall implimentation.. Still gives people a quick inection of instant isk for ammo and mods but makes them work for the bigger payout to get the big ticket items like ships and such.. Gallente the New Pink« Originally by: David Hackworth ò If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly.
Tari Telrunya	Posted - 2007.12.13 22:14:00 - [3] ...interesting... and might help with the LP stores... But how would that work in 0.0? And now I think of it, it would make looting compulsory so no 'blitzing' missions... is that a good thing?
Yohanes Flame Point-Zero SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.13 22:17:00 - [4] I stopped looting wrecks long long ago in a place far far away. time/isk/boredom = less isk than just killing for more bounties.
Alora Venoda Caldari GalTech Giant Space Amoeba	Posted - 2007.12.13 22:18:00 - [5] this might work in empire, but not in 0.0... in 0.0 this would be very inconvenient since the nearest station might be 10 jumps away most stations in 0.0 are owned by players, so there would be no buy orders to cash in on looting those tags is a lot of work and many players do not bother to loot at all, especially in 0.0 ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ Take away the risk and it would make flying around in space utterly pointless. Take away the flying around part and you make EVE into a space themed spreadsheet application.
Dred'Pirate Jesus Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2007.12.13 22:22:00 - [6] Originally by: Tari Telrunya But how would that work in 0.0? And now I think of it, it would make looting compulsory so no 'blitzing' missions... is that a good thing? As far as 0.0 yeah its a bit of a hit to people running around in af or hacs and ratting for isk but on the other hand it nerfs the isk farmers they hate so much.. Plus 0.0 is supposed to be completely player driven so I'm sure some enterprising pilot with a jump capable ship would buy the tags then when he has enough he turns them in at a low sec station.. As far as 'blitzing' missions you would still get part of the bounty along with the rewards.. Fair trade imo to cut down on farming the high isk bounty missions with multiple agents and alts and reducing isk inflation.. Gallente the New Pink« Originally by: David Hackworth ò If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly.
Yakoff Star Scream Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.13 22:24:00 - [7] Originally by: Alora Venoda this might work in empire, but not in 0.0... in 0.0 this would be very inconvenient since the nearest station might be 10 jumps away most stations in 0.0 are owned by players, so there would be no buy orders to cash in on looting those tags is a lot of work and many players do not bother to loot at all, especially in 0.0 1) would stop those isk farmers out in 0.0 just running the npc's, cloaking, signing off just to get lots of fast isk, wouldn't it. 2) Who says it has to be a buy order. Put sometime of bounty agent in every single station. Put all your "bounty" tags into your hangar. Right click, cash in. 3) 0.0 should not be an easy way to make isk without doing some kind of work. Amiright?
Tari Telrunya	Posted - 2007.12.13 22:47:00 - [8] Edited by: Tari Telrunya on 13/12/2007 22:52:51 Hurm... I still don't think it would work in 0.0 (or should I say it wouldn't go down well). One good reason/argument is that stations arn't that common in some parts of 0.0 and it would make it a pain for you 'lone' ratter. Yes it would be good against farmers, but how about new alliances, lone corps or even lone ratters (not all of them are macrofarmers ) Thats the reason that the drone regions are so unpopular. It's not that you can't make any money out there (and arguably you can make more) but you do have to put in more work to do it. But I've had a thought! Really easy way to solve a lot of problems (and probably create a load of new ones ) - why not just increase the chance of getting a 'faction' mission ie. one against caldari/amarr or gall/min. That would give more tags for the LP store, make mission rewards more 'tag based' apposed to 'bounty based' aaaaaand would tie in nicely with the upcoming faction warfare stuff. A side effect would be the standings thing... which could be a tricky point... hurm... ps. this looks like it could be a reasonable discussion/thread... and as such shouldn't it be moved to game development before it gets spoiled?
Mir Net	Posted - 2007.12.13 22:58:00 - [9] final, nail, coffin. Another timesink, another one designed to get you to create another account to trail around after you collecting up resourced income. sure, if you fancy missions, npc'ing taking twice the time than it does now then swallow it up. Personaly, im about done with ccp's shameless attempts to get you to create multiple accounts for the games most basic functions. Thats all this is, nothing more.
Dred'Pirate Jesus Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2007.12.14 03:07:00 - [10] Edited by: Dred''Pirate Jesus on 14/12/2007 03:15:08 Originally by: Tari Telrunya Edited by: Tari Telrunya on 13/12/2007 22:52:51 Hurm... I still don't think it would work in 0.0 (or should I say it wouldn't go down well). One good reason/argument is that stations arn't that common in some parts of 0.0 and it would make it a pain for you 'lone' ratter. Yes it would be good against farmers, but how about new alliances, lone corps or even lone ratters (not all of them are macrofarmers ) Thats the reason that the drone regions are so unpopular. It's not that you can't make any money out there (and arguably you can make more) but you do have to put in more work to do it. But I've had a thought! Really easy way to solve a lot of problems (and probably create a load of new ones ) - why not just increase the chance of getting a 'faction' mission ie. one against caldari/amarr or gall/min. That would give more tags for the LP store, make mission rewards more 'tag based' apposed to 'bounty based' aaaaaand would tie in nicely with the upcoming faction warfare stuff. A side effect would be the standings thing... which could be a tricky point... hurm... ps. this looks like it could be a reasonable discussion/thread... and as such shouldn't it be moved to game development before it gets spoiled? Originally by: Mir Net final, nail, coffin. Another timesink, another one designed to get you to create another account to trail around after you collecting up resourced income. sure, if you fancy missions, npc'ing taking twice the time than it does now then swallow it up. Personaly, im about done with ccp's shameless attempts to get you to create multiple accounts for the games most basic functions. Thats all this is, nothing more. To answer the common parts of your posts I think that if you want to be a 'lone' ratter/corp then you have to pay the price of not having any support.. Eve is desinged from the ground up to be a game that requires you to have buddies to get ahead in the game.. So if you want to play the game solo then a second account is manditory as the game mechanics simply don't support solo play.. Build it and they will come.. This means that if a new market for bounty tags is introduced then it brings it inline with every other isk making activity in Eve.. Ergo 'Do the deed then haul the stuff somewhere for your reward' Like I stated earlier 0.0 is player driven so it won't take long for a market to establish itself to cash in on the tags.. People want their isk now and someone will give it to them.. For a cut that is.. @ Tari.. Standings are irrelevant as it has nothing to do with the 4 major factions.. NPC's are all pirates in the belts so this would have no impact on that.. As far as missions well the vast majority of players already salvage so it won't really be any more of a chore to them.. @ Mir.. Eve is not a single player game and never has been.. If you or others want to play it solo then get a second account.. But to specificaly answer your point: Fit a tractor beam.. Gallente the New Pink« Originally by: David Hackworth ò If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly.
Devian 666 Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.14 03:32:00 - [11] Originally by: Mir Net final, nail, coffin. Another timesink, another one designed to get you to create another account to trail around after you collecting up resourced income. sure, if you fancy missions, npc'ing taking twice the time than it does now then swallow it up. Personaly, im about done with ccp's shameless attempts to get you to create multiple accounts for the games most basic functions. Thats all this is, nothing more. I agree. Making the reward tags throughout the game would punish people for being in 0.0. It would be a good method of driving people away from the game. Rewards in 0.0 need to be increased not decreased. Originally by: Karlemgne (talking about me) You are a liar. Your whole corp and alliance is filled with liars. Stop ranting. Your nerd rage is showing.
Dred'Pirate Jesus Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2007.12.14 03:39:00 - [12] Edited by: Dred''Pirate Jesus on 14/12/2007 03:40:33 Originally by: Devian 666 Making the reward tags throughout the game would punish people for being in 0.0. It would be a good method of driving people away from the game. Rewards in 0.0 need to be increased not decreased. How exactly would it decrease rewards? And driving away people who don't participate and want to play X3 in an mmo is a desirable action in most player eyes I'd reason.. Though I seriously doubt it would drive anyone away.. Gallente the New Pink« Originally by: David Hackworth ò If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly.
Jason Kildaro Minmatar Red Dwarf Mining Corps 5th Column	Posted - 2007.12.14 04:40:00 - [13] All that other stuff aside. Wouldn't tags be yet another thing the server has to ID and keep a track of and make a call for? This would increase the load, which is the reason they put in the bounty delay.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.12.14 04:42:00 - [14] Hits solo ratters too hard. Forcing people to work together to play the game is one thing - that obviously should be done. Forcing people to work together just to grind for ISK? Bad idea. - DesuSigs
Dred'Pirate Jesus Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2007.12.14 05:10:00 - [15] Thats why I suggested the bountys be split instead of removed to tags only.. What level it ended up being would be for CCP to figure out so as to not completely ** off the playerbase.. It would just be a way to nerf farmers without unduly effecting the players who do rat solo on occasion.. And really in most cases in 0.0 your tank way outstrips the rats dps so you can easily bunch them up and quickly loot the cans.. Maurauders wouldn't even feel the pinch in thier case with the bonuses and hacs and af are more than quick enough to loot without a tractor.. I see it slowing down the isk per hour of 0.0 ratters but really don't you think its far too easy to get that much isk by simply running belt to belt and hitting f1 f2 f3? Where else in the game can you do that and get paid instantly without ever docking at a station or interacting with anything but npc's? The way it is now a 0.0 ratting pilot transfers his isk to an empire alt to buy his stuff and then meets him somewhere to pick it up or simply flys to empire to do the same.. Everyone else has to take what they make to empire or at least an outpost to sell it to make the isk to transfer to the empire alt.. Ratters get left out of a step that all other players have to do.. So this would simply balance it out a bit is all.. Gallente** the New Pink« Originally by: David Hackworth ò If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly.
Moraguth Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.12.14 05:13:00 - [16] Edited by: Moraguth on 14/12/2007 05:14:15 I really like this idea. it hurts 0.0 macroers. If you already loot wrecks, it doesn't slow you down at all. Creates new markets for 0.0. (i hate this part) gives pirates an additional way to make money by cashing in on people taking their tags to high sec (maybe make high sec "tag agents" pay more because they're closer to the empires treasury?) I really really like this idea for alot of reasons. If you make the tags take up almost 0 space, this idea becomes pretty hot. We already have "overseer's personal effects", this could be a natural extension. Concord could give you a flat rate on everyone, certain factions might hate certain pirate groups more, so you could hunt down good deals on these tags. YARRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr EDIT: I also like the idea of making the 0.0 rats give even better tags than before, so that the middleman's cut doesn't hurt the 0.0 ratter too much. hmmmmmm.... make concord tags/navy tags redeemable in pirate space? the ideas are bursting in my head! good game
Dred'Pirate Jesus Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2007.12.14 05:27:00 - [17] Edited by: Dred''Pirate Jesus on 14/12/2007 05:32:15 It also fits in RP wise.. You get the smaller instant bounty for the obvious destruction of the dreaded pirates ship.. But.. You have to bring in his tag to prove you actually killed him and that he didn't get away in an escape capsule or such.. Originally by: Jason Kildaro All that other stuff aside. Wouldn't tags be yet another thing the server has to ID and keep a track of and make a call for? This would increase the load, which is the reason they put in the bounty delay. In a word.. No.. New ID's to track are not the same as 10's of thousands of simutanious bounty/loot table calls.. It would add to the load yes but with the new way of batch prossesing them it would be negligable at best.. Gallente the New Pink« Originally by: David Hackworth ò If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly.
Yakoff Star Scream Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.14 08:06:00 - [18] Edited by: Yakoff on 14/12/2007 08:08:25 Wow, just wow. Lots of good discussion here. Not too many flames and trolling, and very good intelligent arguments. A lot of you have conveyed what I was already thinking, but just could not put into words. The whole 0.0 is for teams, working together - not just the solo person grinding for isk is what I was originally looking for. Maybe Empire cashing in for solo players would be fine and need no change. But a new system for the 0.0 areas for bounties needs revamped. My belief in intellectual forums have been reinstated. Damn, I just realized I have a goatee and am in an alternate universe.
Shar'Tuk TheHated	Posted - 2007.12.14 08:16:00 - [19] Terrible idea, sure this would work just fine for empire huggers but would screw over 0.0. DRINK RUM It fights scurvy & boosts morale! THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES!
Dred'Pirate Jesus Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2007.12.14 08:34:00 - [20] In what way if you could elaborate? Hard to understand what you don't like if you only say 'It Screws o.o' Gallente the New Pink« Originally by: David Hackworth ò If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly.
Condecinte	Posted - 2007.12.14 08:44:00 - [21] I always loot the wrecks when ratting, but I still don't want this simply because its a pain in the backside. Yes the game is multiplayer, but when people grind for ISK they do it on their own at a time and place thats convenient for them, you don't need a 5 man gang just to go ratting ffs. Dredjesus how do you earn your ISK? I only ask because you seem to be most in favour of this.
Shar'Tuk TheHated	Posted - 2007.12.14 08:47:00 - [22] Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus In what way if you could elaborate? Hard to understand what you don't like if you only say 'It Screws o.o' Guess you havent lived in deep 0.0 in outposts 60 jumps from empire have you? DRINK RUM It fights scurvy & boosts morale! THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES!
Shevar Minmatar A.W.M Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.12.14 08:49:00 - [23] I fully agree with this change, finally other .0 residents in EvE can feel the same joys of having to loot every ship to get profit just like use droners! --- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
Tari Telrunya	Posted - 2007.12.14 16:02:00 - [24] Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus @ Tari.. Standings are irrelevant as it has nothing to do with the 4 major factions.. NPC's are all pirates in the belts so this would have no impact on that.. As far as missions well the vast majority of players already salvage so it won't really be any more of a chore to them.. I was actually refering to my idea about just increasing the number of faction missions given by agents, not commenting on belt rats. But anyway, I still have my reservations about this idea, but it could have potential. My reservations are that it would hurt 0.0 too much. As has already been said, its hard enough out there and this would make it that much harder. Yes, eve is a multiplayer game but should you be required to be in a big alliance with a station and or carriers/jump capable ships etc. to be able to make money in 0.0? I would fear that a change of this nature would make it a pain for big, well established alliances to be 0.0 but more to the point make it imposible for smaller ones and even lone corps/small groups to survive out there. The other, less obvious effect is that it would make being in hi-sec as apposed to 0.0 even more attractive and as hi-sec is overpopulated as it is this can't be a good thing and would actually lead to less alliances and hence less player-player inteaction. Basically what I'm saying is that whilst this idea might be fine for hisec it would have a very bad effect on 0.0, my idea of just increasing the number of 'faction missions' wouldn't. I don't want 0.0 to become the 'new lowsec' (ie. there is no point in being there).
Mara Nobars Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2007.12.14 16:14:00 - [25] Edited by: Mara Nobars on 14/12/2007 16:14:11 Yet another thing for people to steal while you are working through waves of rats? I suppose if you want to boost people ninja-looting your kills while you are still aggro'd by waves of baddies this is a good idea. In other words ... no, terrible idea.
Ares Lightfeather Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.14 16:19:00 - [26] Edited by: Ares Lightfeather on 14/12/2007 16:19:38 Hum. What do you need isk for in 0.0 sec anyway ? As far as mission goes, it'll be more logical too (so high sec is the same). Maybe it's just me, but I had the impression that 0.0 sec was designed to enable self-sufficient group of people to survive. For example : people mine to build then fit modules on your ships, and you build ships. You loot to fit modules on your ship. No isk needed there... I like the OP's idea. I doubt that it'll ever be in place because people are used to the current system though. -- random eve-related content --
Pandrion	Posted - 2007.12.14 16:40:00 - [27] I am fairly new here but fwiw this sounds a lot like 'people aren't playing the way I want them too, it should be stopped'. One of the things that attracted me to this game was its open ended nature, you can do what you choose. This idea seems in direct contradiction to that ideal.
Sabian Treehugger Minmatar Omega Enterprises Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2007.12.14 16:42:00 - [28] what a bunch of whiners . Two words : drone regions . Nuff' said.
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.14 16:46:00 - [29] NPC ships in pirate missions drops tags instead of bounties, i can assure, its worst ******* change they ever made to the game. Having to waste an hour after the mission took 30 minutes just so you can get paid sucks balls. -----
Althea Nar'agh StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2007.12.14 16:58:00 - [30] Ok and each and every tag that gets droped in empire (from whatever rat) needs to be cashed-in in some deep 0.0 pace... deal? War. War never changes EvE Training Monitor / iMonitor / iCEO EvE iHelper

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