What this would do is eliminate the need to train skills. It would eliminate the skill queue because we would no longer have to schedule skills in order to make sure that our characters don't fall behind when, for whatever reason, we are unable to log on and add another skill to the queue before the current skill finishes.

You've removed the decision of whether you should train that level 5 skill.

The decision is still there, you just make it after you have the skill points rather than before.

Another player had the same great idea and got trolled?

Imagine that.

As it is now, you make a choice and have to stick with it. Even if after a couple of weeks, you realize you actually should have trained another skill to 5. With your idea, that consequence is removed and you collect SP to distribute as and when required.

Sorry, but no thanks.

When you decide which attributes you want your generic skill to train, that is a permanent and irreversible commitment.

Available only for skills trained at least to zero, (injected but untrained).

Set your skill que not for specific skill levels, the que can still be locked to a 24 hour cycle, but set the que to auto-continue any skill to it's next level automatically.
IE: level 4 might be over 3 days, but if you don't log in for a week, it starts level 5 automatically after level 4.

This would be no less exploitable than the previous system, since abusers would simply inject the skills, but would actually hurt any legitimate users because then they couldn't advance any partially trained skills.

This however, this is probably the first legitimate middle ground between "I forgot to add a new skill" and "Live with the consequences" that I've ever seen. I don't think it's needed, and I think at times it might be annoying to have that 2% of a level 5 that you didn't actually need to train, but I think it's a FAR better compromise than any other I've seen before.

I still don't think it's needed though, since the 24h queue works perfectly well if you pay attention (especially with EVEMon yelling at you to put new skills in, lol), but kudos for a halfway decent idea.

Here is another idea.

Available only for skills trained at least to zero, (injected but untrained).

Set your skill que not for specific skill levels, the que can still be locked to a 24 hour cycle, but set the que to auto-continue any skill to it's next level automatically.
IE: level 4 might be over 3 days, but if you don't log in for a week, it starts level 5 automatically after level 4.

Direction changes in skills would still only be set in the 24 hour range, but if you wanted a skill to 5, just let it run by itself once it is started on the 24 hour que.
The option when right clicking the skill to put it in the que would still offer the next level, the way it currently is, or the option to FINISH IT, which would auto cue it after the current level until level 5 completed.

Now, after level 5, the que would still stop, so it has a limited value.

An attentive player able to log in would never need this.

It benefits people unable to log in for extended periods, regardless of whether they have no computer available, or simply had real life issues that kept them too busy.

AND

I like it!

+1

people will simply dump all their unused skills into Will/Perc to be able to dump them into the next FotM when it rolls around.

Any system that allows characters to suddenly dump SP into skills faster than [training them as usual] is fundamentally abuseable and would destroy skills in Eve as we know them by removing the main consequence to training in Eve.

When you decide which attributes you want your generic skill to train, that is a permanent and irreversible commitment.
When you chose what skills to allocate your skill points to, that is also a permanent and irreversible commitment.
You could very well regret any of these decisions after you make them so no consequence are removed.

This proposal does not 'mess' with the skill queue. It does not change or replace what is there now, it just adds something that makes it better. If you really believe it won't help your game, fine, you would have the option of not using it.

I'm not sure if you're deliberately missing the point, or just not seeing it.

As it stands now, you make a choice and have wait for that choice to give fruit. It could be weeks for a level 5, so your choice and decision to train that skill is one to be considered.

With your idea, you gather SP and are able to choose when and to what skill you apply it and instantly gain level 5.
You don't even need to use them, you simply keep gathering the SP and wait for new stuff to arrive. Or wait the new FOTM to show it's head and apply as needed. Instant skills at level 5, no worries.

It even removes the need for the skill queue, as it trains this super skill if you forget to set one. Hell, why even log on at all? Just let it run and return a year later and apply that 20 odd million SP to where ever you fancy.

I understand your point, Mag, and I think it's unfair.

When you train a regular skill, you lock yourself into training only that skill. When you train this generic skill, you only lock yourself into the category of skills that depend on the same attributes as the ones you set. So training the generic skill is more flexible than training a regular skill. This would be equally good for everyone, including you. Still you complain and exaggerate because you don't want to admit that you prefer that other characters be allowed to fall behind as it puts you ahead.

I think it's unfair.

You're under the mistaken impression that Eve is fair. It isn't.

Eve is only as fair as you make it, therefore, your proposal is fundamentally broken.

a more agreeable idea would be to allow skill queuing through evegate

problem solved

You seem to be under the impression that the skills are some sort of race to 'keep up' with other players? It isn't.

What's to stop me rolling a new character, not learning anything for the next 3-4 years and, when my corp/alliance needs to take space or whatever, I just insta-learn a titan pilot! Now imagine that times a few thousand for other ships or specific roles. This will not help EVE in the slightest, will only help those with cash to burn (and there are a lot of people like this in EVE).

Enter your idea. I do a space command only spec train and ride out 6 months of trains. Don't need to train anything real...I can bank up the sps' and not care too much. Gives me the option too see what the summer patch brings to caps if they get looked at in some way. Will niddy be fixed? Will summer patch due to wtf play testing inhouse make chimera's so op its scary? That happens....jsut cash my chips in and bam, instant uber chimera. Same with major numbers in every alliance who either on mains just fill in time since "done" up to supers or the training char on one of their cyno alt accounts.

NO consequence to this setup. I wait for summer patch to settle, see what the trends ar, have my months of sp's....and bam I pick the new winner. Old system is fine as is. I pick my ships, hope next patch is either nice or does nothing to me (since nothng is better than getting nerfed lol). Element of risk eve players have taken for years. We all lived through it, so can newer players.

Rather than stockpiling forever with minimal consequence, any and ALL unspent points are lost upon being podded.

Rather than training from two attributes at the same time, I would suggest only being able to train one attribute at a time, requiring you to swap the skills regularly to get what you'd like.

Penalties could be introduced that slow training speed the more generic points you have saved up.

And if they end up nerfing the Chimera in the following winter patch, or buffing something else to counter the Chimera, then the consequences are the same.

But if they nerf the Chimera before you finish training the skills with your system, then there are no consequences whatsoever. See the difference?

No. There will always be consequences no matter what you do.

Yes, but your idea removes great swathes of them, leaving no real consequences to speak of.

What and how? Be more specific.

Please don't reply to topics you haven't clearly read through.

Biomass your character(s).

Imagine that then. You've spent a long time saving up points on a special character. You almost have enough to get that last level 5 you need to fly that awesome ship or fit that t2 gang link, and then somebody comes along and blows it all away. Would you really call it fair? I wouldn't. (...rage quit!) No, I'd rather just lose the usual amount if we die without a clone or it's insufficient. Otherwise they should be fully covered.

Then don't stockpile. Spend the points now or you might not get to decide at all.

The point of training one attribute at a time is to reduce complexity in the idea. With 5 generic skills, you can pop one in your queue with the current setup and the points go directly to a bank. With a mixable system you either need 20 skills or a new gui system to allow you to set primary and secondary attributes which may or may not work with the queue. My modification to your idea is as an addition to the current system, not a replacement.

What and how? Be more specific.

Then what's the point of having a clone? It would be most regressive to young characters who most often lose at pvp, suicide gank, and unexpected high sec gate camps under war decs. The generic skill is meant to reduce grief, not make it worse.

I think I ranted too much about the skill queue in my OP.

The fundamental problem is that all skill training eventually ends thereby creating the potential for loss of skill points. The problem can never be properly addressed by tweaking the skill queue, even if it were extended indefinitely.

The fundamental problem is that all skill training eventually ends thereby creating the potential for loss of skill points.

I think I ranted too much about the skill queue in my OP.

The fundamental problem is that all skill training eventually ends thereby creating the potential for loss of skill points. The problem can never be properly addressed by tweaking the skill queue, even if it were extended indefinitely.

... the difficult decisions we have to make now.

Your idea makes the queue obsolete...

and removes any balance in that regard.

Your idea removes consequences and the difficult decisions we have to make now. The fact that you cannot address that point to any degree, speaks volumes.

Which means it's a better idea. Thank you.

Then who does it favor, or disfavor?

You made this logically erroneous argument before.

It doesn't matter when you make your skill training decisions, they always have consequences.

This isn't a 'problem' though, it's a feature. There's always a potential for missed skill points (not lost, because you never had them to begin with). Whenever you're not training skills, you're getting less SP than you could have, but you're also getting less SP than you could have if you are using anything other than a fully speced skill map with +5s in the relevant attributes.

Part of the core of Eve is the decisions behind the skills you train and how you train them. Do I train X skill now with a good mapping or do I train Y because I need it more, despite having a bad attribute map? (something I made a decision about just this week personally). Do I use a set of +5s for maximum training or do I use +3/4s because they're cheaper and I can afford to replace them? Do I log in now to add another skill to the queue or do I blow it off because I don't feel like it?

Actions have consequences in Eve, this is by design.

Losing SP is not a feature, it's a flaw. Missing something is the same as losing it. You miss/lose what you would otherwise have. When you're not training a skill, you're getting zero SP, which is infinitely less than even 1 SP.

Not necessarily.

The queue is working as intended in this regard, and shouldn't be removed (pre-queue days of planning around "work", "sleep", "school" and "downtime" were a pain).

"Balance" in the regard of "not forcing people to log in every day for 6 hours" (e.g. a traditional MMO) and "we still want you to log in semi-regularly". If you could set and forget 3 or 4 months of skills and not log in, what's there to keep you around?

(stuff ... seriously CCP, WTF with the arbitrary limit of quotes)

Which means it's a better idea. Thank you.

Who does it favor, or disfavor?

It doesn't matter when you make your skill training decisions, they always have consequences.

You've made these logically erroneous arguments many times only to reject my superior wisdom and guidance. Give yourself all the time you need, it should sink in eventually.