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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Speedyy	Posted - 2007.12.15 20:48:00 - [1] Yesterday a gang from my alliance ganged 2 carriers. They were going down and instead of fitting till the end they self destruct. This is NOT OK. The self destruct option shouldnÆt be allowed if u has agro. Should be same as agro in low sec and not allow self destruct for 15 min since the last agro. If someone takes his carrier to a fight he must fight or warp, jump out not self destruct.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.15 20:56:00 - [2] Why? Standard military tactic, before your ship fall in the enemy hands you scuttle it. Self destructing should leave some level of wreck, but with less chance for useful modules than a normal kill.
Shereza	Posted - 2007.12.15 21:13:00 - [3] Self-destruct is a dedicated action that requires 2 minutes and is, apparently, intended to completely destroy everything about the ship. Either way the ship gets blown up and, honestly, the only reason I'd ever have for attacking a capital ship would be to blow it up, and perhaps get some decent salvage, so them self-destructing would save me the money lost on spent ammo.
Vrenth Gallente 23rd Armor Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.15 22:24:00 - [4] Originally by: Shereza Self-destruct is a dedicated action that requires 2 minutes and is, apparently, intended to completely destroy everything about the ship. Either way the ship gets blown up and, honestly, the only reason I'd ever have for attacking a capital ship would be to blow it up, and perhaps get some decent salvage, so them self-destructing would save me the money lost on spent ammo. Swear to god, the killmail system is ruining this game. Who gives a crap, honestly? It's in writing that you killed it. Does your ego need so much attention that you must have PROOF beyond the 20 people that killed it with you? I totally agree with this person. A carrier self destructing to forfit your killmail if fine... he saved you the trouble of finish him off. --------------------------------- Let's make CLONE VATS useful!
Zigg Omelo eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.15 22:24:00 - [5] PvP's beggist prbml is speeeelign
Lady Galadriel Thief Hunters of Orion's Alliance Safe And Fun Environment	Posted - 2007.12.15 22:28:00 - [6] Self dest... Deny the enemy the media war. Rock on.
Speedyy	Posted - 2007.12.15 22:52:00 - [7] Edited by: Speedyy on 15/12/2007 22:53:33 Edited by: Speedyy on 15/12/2007 22:53:12 I love to kill a carrier or a MS and if I take the risk to do it i should have a reward and a kill mail for my ego. If u all are miners and u mine with carries die. PS: English is not my language so if i miss spell some words is not such a big thing
Zeph Solaris NYIT Gangstaz SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.15 23:04:00 - [8] It's your fault for not being able to kill it before the two minutes were up.
sbreach Gallente PezCo - Ice Services Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.12.15 23:05:00 - [9] Self destruct is as it is, for the exact reason you hate it. It removes your reward for killing it, other than dealing significant isk damage/ maybe morale on the victim and so. If you had a 1.4 billion ship with mods to equal cost, i wouldnt let the person who was going to kill me get them, I would self Destruct too. its basically the final insult before waking up in clone station. Also my understanding is Self destruct used to be instant, Cant be sure since i wasnt around when it might of been instant but be glad you get 2 whole minutes to nuke the carrier. rather than oh its in structure, S/D POOF :( Player A wants the carrier to die and drop nice loot. Player B wants carrier to live and not die. Player A Still wants loot and it to die Player B comes to the acknowledgement his nice ship is going to die Player B decides if im going to die, im going down with all my nice stuff, no loot for you! Player A see's self destruct sequence and cries Player B dies, but in his expensive carrier death, can gain respite in knowing he deprived Player A of his killmail and loot. The moral of this story is, if you see SELF DESTRUCT sequence activated, and got no way to kill it in the 2 minutes, RANSOM IT!!!!!!!! At least get something for your ammo! and im sure a carrier is willing to be ransomed. hell perhaps trick them into ransoming so they stop the Self destruct sequence. Id think ransoming a carrier which is gonna go down and leave you nothing is better than coming to the forums and complaining about a game mechanic which is performing the duties it was meant to do, which was give the Winner a shallow victory, the ultimate final say of the victim.
Speedyy	Posted - 2007.12.15 23:17:00 - [10] Edited by: Speedyy on 15/12/2007 23:17:41 Originally by: sbreach Self destruct is as it is, for the exact reason you hate it. It removes your reward for killing it, other than dealing significant isk damage/ maybe morale on the victim and so. If you had a 1.4 billion ship with mods to equal cost, i wouldnt let the person who was going to kill me get them, I would self Destruct too. its basically the final insult before waking up in clone station. Also my understanding is Self destruct used to be instant, Cant be sure since i wasnt around when it might of been instant but be glad you get 2 whole minutes to nuke the carrier. rather than oh its in structure, S/D POOF :( Player A wants the carrier to die and drop nice loot. Player B wants carrier to live and not die. Player A Still wants loot and it to die Player B comes to the acknowledgement his nice ship is going to die Player B decides if im going to die, im going down with all my nice stuff, no loot for you! Player A see's self destruct sequence and cries Player B dies, but in his expensive carrier death, can gain respite in knowing he deprived Player A of his killmail and loot. The moral of this story is, if you see SELF DESTRUCT sequence activated, and got no way to kill it in the 2 minutes, RANSOM IT!!!!!!!! At least get something for your ammo! and im sure a carrier is willing to be ransomed. hell perhaps trick them into ransoming so they stop the Self destruct sequence. Id think ransoming a carrier which is gonna go down and leave you nothing is better than coming to the forums and complaining about a game mechanic which is performing the duties it was meant to do, which was give the Winner a shallow victory, the ultimate final say of the victim. Ok... them make the timer for self destruct according to the ship class: frig 1 min crusers and BC 1.5 min BS 2 min Capital 15 min There is no way u can kill a carrier in less them 2 min.
sbreach Gallente PezCo - Ice Services Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.12.15 23:31:00 - [11] Originally by: Speedyy Edited by: Speedyy on 15/12/2007 23:17:41 Ok... them make the timer for self destruct according to the ship class: frig 1 min crusers and BC 1.5 min BS 2 min Capital 15 min There is no way u can kill a carrier in less them 2 min. Hmm something along these lines, is a fair idea, however 15 minutes is far to elongated, especially since most fights with carriers which are going down will be down in less than a couple of minutes, getting a carrier on its own and killing it with a small gang is quite rare from what i can see, and so in alot of cases, self destruct doesnt do anything for alot of carriers. Perhaps a different method of Self Destruct could be the complete shutdown of all modules, however i have no way to justify this but it would serve your purpose quite well, in the fact it still has 2 minutes before it goes BOOM but it no longer can rep or have the effect from the DCU's. Trying to balance HUGE alliance PVP with massive cap fleets (which due to sheer numbers probably hold the vast majority of carrier usage) to small scale carrier operations in empire space or similar. It isnt possible to give a fair balance to each. The next idea which would severely hamper self destruct is the removal of insurance money from self destructed ships, a insurance company in real life isnt going to pay for your car if you blow it up for it's money now is it? Counter arguement is that its a game, and Real life is just that real life and this is a game. However the idea of them losing insurance means Self destruct costs them something to make sure it costs you something. however personally this is a horrible idea and i'd hate it, but begrudgingly accept it. Lucky this isnt the feature suggesting forum! However when killing a carrier, you have to remember what it is, being a Capital ship, while that seemingly has been lost now and is regularly seen as a somewhat step up from a Battleship, Capital ships should be quite hard to destroy without a dedicated small fleet of Battleships and support. Small being maybe 10max, Also carriers shouldnt be Solopwn mobiles which MS were occupying, The alternative is to try to ransom it. In alliance combat, i would assume most people would not allow a ransom, and though Self Destruct kills the loot, the people killing its main goal would be for depriving them of one more capital ship, so perhaps ransoming was the best way to go. There are options, but there usually is never a option which will satisfy people fully, im sure the carrier pilot was thinking carriers should be stronger or so.
Cyriel Longinus XERCORE	Posted - 2007.12.16 04:46:00 - [12] How about cutting back on the caffine and leave something in EvE that is not broken just simply the way it is.
Minmatar Citizen 4521577	Posted - 2007.12.16 19:30:00 - [13] And this is your ALL IN CAPS PVP BIGGEST PROBLEM? rofl. If someone takes his carrier to a fight he can do whatever the **** he wants (and can) do. Including denying you from epeen stroking or phat lewts.
caio	Posted - 2007.12.16 22:59:00 - [14] you don¦t want them to self destruct huh? then you would try to do that, they will not receive insurance back if self destruct your own ship, that ,might stop them to self destructing their precious ship and call more for reinforcement.
Blind Man Cosmic Fusion	Posted - 2007.12.16 23:56:00 - [15] why does it matter if he self destructs, he still dies and loses everything.. write up ur own kill mail then all you dont get is the loot which unless you are really lucky will be worth quite little and after it gets split up among the gang and/or given to those who died you don't get much anyways
Taius Pax	Posted - 2007.12.17 02:56:00 - [16] Originally by: Speedyy Edited by: Speedyy on 15/12/2007 23:17:41 Ok... them make the timer for self destruct according to the ship class: frig 1 min crusers and BC 1.5 min BS 2 min Capital 15 min There is no way u can kill a carrier in less them 2 min. Translation: I'm not l33t enough to kill this thing fast enough before it blows itself up and deprives me of my l33t win. Please change the game mechanics to favor me.
SoftRevolution	Posted - 2007.12.17 03:18:00 - [17] Originally by: Speedyy Edited by: Speedyy on 15/12/2007 22:52:25 EVE RELATED CONTENT
Buyerr	Posted - 2007.12.17 05:07:00 - [18] biggest problem?! STFU... killmails is only something to see who can **** the highest, that is not a main problem (it is lame that you can do this, but it is not any big problem)
FawKa Gallente x13	Posted - 2007.12.17 08:53:00 - [19] Listen to the poor guy - he didnt get another killmail, what a shame.. Thats the problem about PVP ^ Originally by: Danjira Ryuujin Not being able to adapt and not being able to use the search button seem to go hand in hand.
Katana Seiko Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.17 09:05:00 - [20] If you kill that capital, you get a killmail. if he selfdestructs, the ship will be destroyed anyway, but you don't get a killmail for that ship. If your killmail is the only thing you need, EVE is the wrong game for you. --- This is your Captain speaking. Thank you for flying with our spaceline. Please remain seated until the ship has completely burned out. Thank you.
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2007.12.17 09:35:00 - [21] Self destruct is basically overloading the core reactor and everything that is plugged into it. Even drones in the bay have a power core and then would be in tiny parts when they autodestruct. The autodestruct may be seen as the way of the bad looser, but the main thing about PvP in eve is making sure your ennemy looses something. Here, autodestruct is the only loss that can be caused to the attacker, and the loss is even bigger for the one going in self destruct. At the end, there is only one thing in eve : economic wars! The point is really only to cause loss or no gains to your opponent, self-destruct perfectly fits in this purpose. -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Say hello to my tiny friends !
Laila Eldgorn	Posted - 2007.12.17 11:35:00 - [22] I don't think it makes sense ship leaving no loot if it self-destructs. Specially capital ships are already rare fun to catch so why give them "you don't get any loot" button. It's not like the capital pilot wouldn't lose it anyway. Self destruct as option is cool to give you a chance to get out of battle if you are sure you're gonna die anyway. But leaving nothing to loot uh-huh.
Jason Travers	Posted - 2007.12.21 03:19:00 - [23] Somebody that has a kill mail for a carrier PLEASE PLEASE send this guy an e-mail saying he killed a carrier so the tears will dry up LOL.
Jurgen Cartis Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration	Posted - 2007.12.21 06:38:00 - [24] Scuttling a ship to prevent its loss to the enemy is a perfectly legitimate tactic, used by forces throughout history. Entire navies have been scuttled to prevent their use by the enemy, such as the German Hochseeflotte at Scapa Flow in 1919. All you have to do to self-destruct a Carrier is overload the powercore. Not exactly a complex thing to do, even in combat (very easy, just turn off a few safeties and BOOM). -------------------- ICE Blueprint Sales FIRST!! -Yipsilanti Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth
Incantare Kernel of War Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.12.21 07:11:00 - [25] I was expecting this thread to be about 'lag' or 'blobs' or 'loggers' or 'nanos' or 'nerfs' or anything but selfdestruct. PVP's biggest problem, that's a laugh. Oh no you didn't get a carrier killmail, want a tissue?

CCP Tuxford	Posted - 2007.12.21 08:26:00 - [26] If this is the biggest problem I'm happy. _______________

Feng Schui Minmatar The Ninja Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.21 08:51:00 - [27] Originally by: CCP Tuxford If this is the biggest problem I'm happy. could i direct your attention to this thread?
Vanessa Vale	Posted - 2007.12.21 10:37:00 - [28] And to this thread too?
Jaketh Ivanes Amarr Do Or Die And Live Or Try The Kano Organisation	Posted - 2007.12.21 13:55:00 - [29] Bring bigger ships, bring more ships. 2 minutes is more than enough. Oh, and if you need proof, why don't you just fraps it?
Granth Roden	Posted - 2007.12.21 15:14:00 - [30] Sorry but the argument about not allowing self-destruct is totally wrong. However, the killmail should indeed count self-destruct as a kill if the ship was under fire. Just count the final blow as inflicted by the pilot. Destroying yourself to deny victory to an enemy is absolutely normal and a recommended tactic when no alternatives are available. Check the Graf Spee - battle of the river Plate. A pocket battleship scuttled to avoid what it thought was a battle without hope, thus saving the crew. Even in tank battles it was common practice to destroy the tanks that were immobilized if the enemy was advancing - otherwise they'd be used against you. Scorched earth retreats are also famous in history - the napoleonic theater saw it often enough from Russia to Portugal. As for the carrier not being able to do it - ridiculous. Whats size to do with it? Overload the engines and/or have a few preset little atomic charges and its over. It is totally logical that everything should be destroyed. Its an engineered destruction, of COURSE the cargo hold also has charges. The objective is to deny loot to an enemy. On a side note, I'd actually like to see a self-destructing ship inflict some bomb-like damage (and yes, there's also precedents for that)

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