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Secure Can Nerf... Thanks CCP!!!

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Eco Smith	Posted - 2004.03.14 23:01:00 - [31] Edited by: Eco Smith on 14/03/2004 23:03:45 Im definitely a noob, so forgive me if Im misinformed. Arent you complaining, Neo, that your 'noob' cahracter cant anchor cans in Hi-sec space? This char is acting as a noob in every way? Doing noob agent missions has been possible for me so far without the need for any cans. You're funding this chars expensive cans with your rich Mains? Your agent wanted some Tritanium, you say. How much? I dont know how much is enough to fit in a 'Giant Can' as you put it, but then Ive only done the tutorial missions and a couple of easy ones so far. Havent needed to buy any 'Giant Cans' yet, which begs the question, I suppose, of When is a Noob No Longer A Noob? When he or she's got rich sponsors and knows more about How To Do Stuff than makes In-Game sense? LOL Again, sorry if Im woefully misinformed. Eco. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - RANTING IS PROHIBITED -Lomithrandra, ISD
LaneHacker	Posted - 2004.03.14 23:20:00 - [32] Since I can't try it atm, I'll ask here: Is it still possible to anchor a secure can at Planet/Moon/SafeSpot? - Ammo Cans in 0.8 - 1.0 systems? =Vagabonds=
NeoMorph	Posted - 2004.03.15 00:02:00 - [33] Quote: Since I can't try it atm, I'll ask here: Is it still possible to anchor a secure can at Planet/Moon/SafeSpot? - Ammo Cans in 0.8 - 1.0 systems? Answer: Nope... no new anchored cans in 0.8 and higher systems. ... and to Eco the thing I'm complaining about is that the reason the secure cans was introduced was to stop ore thieves... I was ok and mined the small amount of ore I needed to satisfy the agent but for the noob who wants to make some early cash it's going to limit them. All I'm moaning about is that CCP removed the reason the secure cans were introduced for in the first place... to help the solo miners keep hold of their ore. Anyway this is the last I'm going to post as nobody is reading what I put and reacting to what they THINK I put down. ------------------------------------------- <Stavros> the first motor bike i ever rode <Stavros> was a honda gold wing <Ak-Gara> hah <Stavros>
Tenacha Khan	Posted - 2004.03.15 00:02:00 - [34] Quote: I say nerf the jetison cans bigtime! change them from 27500m¦ to 120m¦ It makes no sense that your ship can build a container 3 times larger than most hauler bays in 2 mins... If i losse me bs my loot which gets dropped into that can is about 3500m¦ Quote: It will stop the use of warp disruption field in high security space when player deployables come in Warp disrupters are here, but cannot be anchored anywhere in empire space either 0.0 or 1.0
Drutort	Posted - 2004.03.15 01:34:00 - [35] im sorry but how the heck is this stopping ppl from strip mining high sec/noob areas? i mean a full mining crew can afford to have alts that can blow up any ore thieve a mile away and also have indy ppl who haul at a regular time, if someone was to steal my ore i would probably blow up the can my self then rather have them jack it right in front of my nose, IF i was mining in empire in the first place This is just a good example of the nerf bat swinging wildly, and so happened to effect the noobs as well as the other ppl, but yet it does not address nor fix the problem, which really cant have a solution IMO support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo my MoBlog
Drutort	Posted - 2004.03.15 01:39:00 - [36] also not sure if someone said this... but why not make a some what safe spot and then just warp there and drop ore in normal can, not like someone will find it within the time that you will be mining... that is the best solution for now and it can work but i guess you wouldnÆt be a noob knowing this and performing this act.... support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo my MoBlog
totes6	Posted - 2004.03.15 03:09:00 - [37] Quote: im sorry but how the heck is this stopping ppl from strip mining high sec/noob areas? i mean a full mining crew can afford to have alts that can blow up any ore thieve a mile away and also have indy ppl who haul at a regular time, if someone was to steal my ore i would probably blow up the can my self then rather have them jack it right in front of my nose, IF i was mining in empire in the first place This is just a good example of the nerf bat swinging wildly, and so happened to effect the noobs as well as the other ppl, but yet it does not address nor fix the problem, which really cant have a solution IMO Thank you that is what I have tried to point out in not just this post but the one I posted about the bug not letting you anchor cans in .7 space earlier in this forum. But as Neomorph said most people are not responding to what u wrote, but what they thought you wrote. As you said the nerf bat swung so wide that the bat itself was not even in the ball field. The roid fields will still be strip mined. And this only affects the new players and the solo miners trying to make a few isk. The corps can still strip mine and THEY were the ones strip mining the fields leaving nothing for the new players. Instead of this make a patch that allows you to only launch for yourself NOT corp in .8 space and higher. This will allow players to anchor cans still, but not allow major strip mining operations to happen using anchored cans. This still means that the major strip miners can use non secure cans, but run the risk of having that ore stolen. But will allow the use of cans to single players. People have said in the past not to complain unless you have a solution to the problem where there it is. Probably the best one availible at the moment.
Adriana	Posted - 2004.03.15 06:31:00 - [38] Please don't forget about the cans already anchored. They need to be removed. If this is not done you will see them for sale for ungodly prices. Not only that, but it will give the people that have them there a huge advantage. Those people will have no competition in those belts and can strip mine to their cans with no competition. Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake. -Napoleon Bonaparte
Mimo	Posted - 2004.03.15 09:16:00 - [39] Edited by: Mimo on 15/03/2004 09:19:58 Hmm..can't wait to charge 500 mills or more for one BS with no one able to mine enough Trit and Pye Good move though to leave the higher systems alone. Though, since there isn't even ore in 0.5 and higher these days, the problem is only shifted a bit. The belts are empty anyway, and even in 0.5 system there are more secure cans then roids in the system. Go and remove the hardcore mining from 1.0 and 0.8, BUT PLEASE fix the ore respawn somehow. Else face a major price increase on large productions, since Trit and Pye are already getting very expensive....
Andrue	Posted - 2004.03.15 09:29:00 - [40] Quote: I say nerf the jetison cans bigtime! change them from 27500m¦ to 120m¦ It makes no sense that your ship can build a container 3 times larger than most hauler bays in 2 mins... Nerfing those cans would mean the end of orethiefs and carebear whining bout orethiefs. What do you mean it makes no sense? The technology is called "flat packing" and if you go to your local DIY store you can buy a flat packed wardrobe and take it come in your small family car. -- (Battle hardened miner) [Brackley, UK] WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality.
Andrue	Posted - 2004.03.15 09:39:00 - [41] Quote: Edited by: Mimo on 15/03/2004 09:19:58 Though, since there isn't even ore in 0.5 and higher these days, the problem is only shifted a bit. The belts are empty anyway, and even in 0.5 system there are more secure cans then roids in the system. It's obviously a big galaxy because that's not my experience. On Saturday I and some fellow corp members spent six hours mining in Rxxxxe (0.8) we made a bit of a hole in one belt but there was still a load of rocks left. We mined over 2 mil in ores (Pyro; Scord and Veld). Okay so this was a noob op but nonetheless it was very worthwhile. -- (Battle hardened miner) [Brackley, UK] WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality.
Synex	Posted - 2004.03.15 09:44:00 - [42] I think the best way to deal with the strip mining in 0.8+ systems is to simply make it not profitable. Create a new ore (called n00bspar or something) which is 3/4 the value of Veldspar and fill the belts in 0.8+ systems with that. Therefore, nobody will head there in their BS to mine it when they could be in a 0.6/0.7 mining Veldspar and making 25% more. The only reason I ever strip mine empire space is if I need lots of Trit / Pyrite and don't want to buy it, otherwise it just doesn't make economic sense for me to do so... So fill the 1.0 sec systems with n00bspar and that will encourage players of those systems... Synex eveDB Code Monkey
Synex	Posted - 2004.03.15 09:46:00 - [43] Edited by: Synex on 15/03/2004 09:47:14
Khaarg	Posted - 2004.03.15 09:48:00 - [44] Fantastic idea. As a new player there was nothing more annoying than getting the mining mission on the tutorial and then finding out the was no ore to mine which almost made me quit(i was very annoyed).
Eco Smith	Posted - 2004.03.15 10:02:00 - [45] Quote: I think the best way to deal with the strip mining in 0.8+ systems is to simply make it not profitable. Create a new ore (called n00bspar or something) which is 3/4 the value of Veldspar and fill the belts in 0.8+ systems with that. Therefore, nobody will head there in their BS to mine it when they could be in a 0.6/0.7 mining Veldspar and making 25% more. The only reason I ever strip mine empire space is if I need lots of Trit / Pyrite and don't want to buy it, otherwise it just doesn't make economic sense for me to do so... So fill the 1.0 sec systems with n00bspar and that will encourage players of those systems... Synex eveDB Code Monkey This is a very good idea, if currently the supposed reason for mining in 0.8 systems is merely to teach noobs how to. Ive always said people wiould behave like saints if they could make a buck out of it. Eco. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - RANTING IS PROHIBITED -Lomithrandra, ISD
Madcow	Posted - 2004.03.15 10:23:00 - [46] Well like hellmar said soon you cant put ore in your unsecure container anymore that will totaly stop strip mining in 0.8+ space. ______________________ I am just a crazy cow
Kathira	Posted - 2004.03.15 10:39:00 - [47] I often see ppl. here use the term NOOB but all of them seem to think of different ppl. Someone showes 2 ppl. with probes who had bad luck cause they lost ore which they had put in an unsecure container. When these 2 ppl. already own an industrial I can't name them noobs anymore. Same for ppl. who use secure container with anchoring. For me the 1.0 to 0.9 Zones are for the New Players. These ppl. are happy owning a Level 2 Mining Frigate or below and earning their first 100 to 200 k there. Btw. I make Missions for a Level 3 Q 18 Agent ( play since end of january 2004 ) and when he gives me a mining mission ( rare ones ) I normally have enough stuff out of refinging crap that I can make the mission without mining.
Alexander Rahl	Posted - 2004.03.15 11:28:00 - [48] Ok. Just a thought. The only reason these belts in 1.0, 0.9 are practically empty now is because the respawn rate has been mega nerfed by ccp. In the past the whole belt would respawn after ea dt all be it not at full amounts but substantial all the same. But since the nerf the belts take weeks to get any substance back into them. For example I mine in a 0.4 system regularly but once the kernite had gone from one particular belt it took over 2 weeks before any more appeared. Also the scord and pyro and veld in that belt took ages to respawn as well. (note i take all the roids not just the rare ones). Another point which is even more important. If ccp stop BS mining in any form then you all better be prepared to pay 10x for every base mineral because trit and pye is not common now (due to roid distribution) and costs almost twice what it did 2 months ago so imagine what cost the mins will be if you cant mine in BS. 10 ea for trit 30-40 for pye 50+ for mex 500 for iso etc etc. Minerals are scarce enough as it is with all the fighting going on without totally screwing up everything. SO .... basically be careful what you wish for guys and consider the knock-on effects or consequences before you moan and whinge at what you think is a player driven problem. I agree with the guy who said that anchoring should be based on your anchoring skill level. Even better would be to make anchoring a Tainer a CEO or director only skill. Anyway, some fair comments in this post but people should try a bit more to look at the whole picture before posting. ----/ / /-----<[]>-----\ \ \---- Head of House Rahl Warleader of the Rahl Clans "Death and Glory, Honour with Courage, Fury and Vengeance" - Chronicles of Rahl.
Alexander Rahl	Posted - 2004.03.15 16:23:00 - [49] Also would it not be better if people stopped going on about BS this BS that and remember that most decent corps will assist new members to mine in lower sec space than 1.0 thus relieving the problem of n00bs stripping what little regrowth that occurs. IMO regrowth is the major factor in 1.0 belts being so empty not so called BS mining there. I've never seen it personally, and from the few belts in 1.0 i have seen there isnt enough regrowth after a week to justify a BS being there anyway. All the BS miners i know of are in 0.6 and below. ----/ / /-----<[]>-----\ \ \---- Head of House Rahl Warleader of the Rahl Clans "Death and Glory, Honour with Courage, Fury and Vengeance" - Chronicles of Rahl.
OmegaTron	Posted - 2004.03.15 16:28:00 - [50] Quote: You're experienced enough to mine in lower security space and you know it, leave high-sec for the newbies (who btw very rarely need secure containers). I don't see anything wrong with this 'nerf' TBH. i agree with leaving the high sec. systems for n00bs, but what is stopping a ore thief from ganking a n00b who now can't use secure containers in high security? doesn't make sense to me. If anything CCP has just made it more difficult for n00bs and alot easier for ore thiefs ------------------------------------------------ A Plague is comming....
Alexander Rahl	Posted - 2004.03.15 16:43:00 - [51] Edited by: Alexander Rahl on 15/03/2004 16:44:56 oops had to delete the repeat post hehe ----/ / /-----<[]>-----\ \ \---- Head of House Rahl Warleader of the Rahl Clans "Death and Glory, Honour with Courage, Fury and Vengeance" - Chronicles of Rahl.
DHU InMe	Posted - 2004.03.15 17:43:00 - [52] null Quote: Edited by: Alexander Rahl on 15/03/2004 16:44:56 oops had to delete the repeat post hehe EDIT YOUR POST AND DELETE IT. THERE A BUTTON TO DELETE IT. IT TRUE ! About mining. Yea, somehow, we should have a 5 min timer protection on jetisson can... Or be able to kill thiefs. Since the main problem was ore thief in high secure area (0.5+). No more allowing secure can in 0.8+ is not bad either since there damn too many secure can and ppl don't take back theirs's to the hangar. But it go again the idea to stop ore thief in high secure area... Alternatives: -Removing BS/cruiser mining laser activation is a nice idea. -Allow 5 min timer on jetison can protection for self/corp/gang. -Allow thief to be flag killable for the player/gang/corp for 5-10 mins. Make it some security status loss(a proportion of actual kill) to prevent ppl from scam "offering noob to get thing in their can and kill them". Nice links (updated 20 Dec 04): BP, bugs about them. (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way.
Carfax	Posted - 2004.03.15 19:37:00 - [53] Well its better that they try to do something rather than just shrug their shoulders and say thats life. Was considering a new npc rat class of ore thieves who operate in secure space and have no bounty so shooting them wouyld result in concord attention. Make them like ants, one sniffs out a can and snaffles some, then tells its mates who come along to snaffle some more so if theres a large amount you're soon over run with the blighters :). Mind you there would be the fine tuning of deciding how to spawn them possibly based on amount of ore floating in cans ======================================== All Your Megabytes are belong to eve :( ========================================
Seradhin	Posted - 2004.03.15 19:46:00 - [54] I notice a lot of posts in this thread complaining that removing the secure cans in 0.8+ will result in problems with ore thieves. Whilst this may be the case in the immediate short term, as had been said a few times CCP are going to stop mining using insecure cans in 0.8+ too, so this really won't be a problem for very long. So after phase 2 there will be no cans in 0.8+ for mining and both types of cans allowed in 0.7 and below. Thus there will be no more of a problem with ore thieves than there is now.
Qwakrz	Posted - 2004.03.15 22:24:00 - [55] Edited by: Qwakrz on 15/03/2004 22:28:58 Ore theives are worse than rats, at least you can shoot rats. This should (hopefully) get fixed soon with theft flagging in the next major patch. I am part of a corp that has just recruited loads of noob's to help them climb the ladder in eve. We (as a corp) will never strip mine in any belt higher than 0.8, whats the point as we would just get a bad name for ourselves and the ore we need can easily be found in lower sec space. Also the rats are worth more in low sec . I personally see no challenge in sitting in a BS or cruiser in 0.9 / 1.0 space and just mining without rats, its to boring. (devs, any chance of allowing us to treat BS's or cruisers in a belt as rats & pop em.... didn't think so) Noobs are no longer noobs if they use secure cans. This means you have lvl3 frigate and thus can pilot a good frigate, also you will have an indy skill so you are no longer a noob. If you use SC's then you need to get out of 1.0 space, start taking risks and leave 1.0 space to true noob's -edit- some secure cans do have a purpose. I have seen cans anchored in front of a gate warning that "You will be entering a war zone and may be fired upon at any time, proceed at own risk". That is a usefull use of a can. Any chance of CCP making a dedicated flag for marking war zones at gates, only placeable by CEO's and with fixed text?
Eneroth	Posted - 2004.03.15 22:42:00 - [56] Quote: Do we all remember the reason that secure cans were introduced for? It was to stop the ore thieves in empire space. Well today I went to get some veld as my agent wants some tritanium... I buys a giant can and goes out to the belt in a 0.9 system to do some mining... I go to anchor it and up pops a dialog saying I cant anchor it in 0.8 and above. Basically the ore thieves are gonna be back as the whole reason for the cans has now been nerfed. The community wasnt even told this was coming either. So thanks CCP for removing the whole reason for the secure cans. Sometimes I wonder if they think these changes through before doing them. Yeyeye macro users whining as always -Any fool can pull a trigger.-

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