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Industry guys: Marauder/BlackOps sales meeting expectations?

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DJ P	Posted - 2007.12.18 11:59:00 - [31] Marauders will not be available soon so don't expect price drops. When the stock is gone, they are gone. The cost to build one incl the invention (but not the fails!) is aprox 800m with good skills and implants. Now, the people who sell them at loss are either a) people who want to flog them and stop there (with few hundred million loss) b) people who soon will be bankcrupt c) people who macromining and they are not bothered. I know from friends who do invention heavily, and they will not make ANY. It's cheaper to produce capital ships or anything else than T2 battleships.
Jonny JoJo Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.12.18 12:06:00 - [32] Originally by: DJ P Marauders will not be available soon so don't expect price drops. When the stock is gone, they are gone. The cost to build one incl the invention (but not the fails!) is aprox 800m with good skills and implants. Now, the people who sell them at loss are either a) people who want to flog them and stop there (with few hundred million loss) b) people who soon will be bankcrupt c) people who macromining and they are not bothered. I know from friends who do invention heavily, and they will not make ANY. It's cheaper to produce capital ships or anything else than T2 battleships. T2 bs's cost around 600mil to invent and manufacture, however not everyone has max skills + implants so costs are going to be an extra 10-20% or so (aorund 700mil) There is money to be made, but currently, these ships are close to useless when compared to faction ships. Refresh to see next Real Life CCP sig(16 total)
Ironnight Caldari x13	Posted - 2007.12.18 12:08:00 - [33] Same problem as allways, people mine their own minerals and forget that they have add the value of the minerals to the build cost, nothing new. For me it will be just as fast to train to a carrier as to a black ops, sure the skills costs a lot more, but I see the carrier as a much better choice, I can move more stuff with it and it will do better in combat, so I am going to pass on the black ops, they seem to be pretty useless to me. Marauders seem to be ok, but a tech I battleship is more then enough to do missions in and the extra cargohold has allready been nerfed by the increase in volume of most items. As a PVP ship cost is too high for it to be really interesting and it is way to easy to jam them. I do however like the new heavy interdictors.
Hyo Velka	Posted - 2007.12.18 12:11:00 - [34] Originally by: OneSock ... I may of course decide to buy one for salvaging, as the bay size and tractor beam bonus suggest a nice role in salvaging Lv4s. No risk there either. But depends on my training direction. Hehe. Snap. Should be a perfect replacement for my destroyer
Hephaesteus Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.18 12:14:00 - [35] I would love a Kronos but tbh it does not have that great an advantage over my Navy Mega for me to want to buy one. What with the ecm hole and not being any good for anything else other than missioning/ratting, they are way overpriced for what they are. I think I would buy one if they were 400-500 mill, but 900 mill is silly money considering a Mega/Domi are better all round ships. Now consider the Navy ships which are cheaper than Marauders and have an all round capability, and it is not difficult to see why Marauders are not selling that well. Imho Marauders are too limited in their roles to be anything else other than collectors items.
pershphanie Deadly Addiction	Posted - 2007.12.18 12:24:00 - [36] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Originally by: Aranbaal Demand for marauders is reall low due to the fact that in general they are no as good as normal battleships. So only mission runners seem to have an interest in them for there large cargo holds. Normal pvp bsed players are sticking with the far cheaper and generaly better all round battleships. QFT This! Most people prefer to stuck with their faction permatanking tripple bcu 7 cruise cnr doing 800dps than reinvest into a golem. Try comparing a Paladin to a Nightmare for pvp. No point using the t2 bs as the faction ship outclasses it. This is what needs to be looked at, as mauroders are pre-nerfed @ everyone knowing sooo much about a ship that pretty much no one has even finished training to fly yet. Just because a ship doesn't look badass of EFT doesn't mean it's going to suck. Really though you don't even know how to use the ship yet. I don't either for that matter it's kind of unknown atm. The problem with them is that people expected them to be either superhacs or better versions of CNR's/navy megas. Clearly they are not that. How ever just because they aren't the "i win" button everyone expected doesnt mean they wont have their role in both pve and pvp. Train marauders lvl4, actually fly the ship before assuming it sucks. As for the stall on the market, ofc that is to be expected. People have to train to fly them. The only people who own them now are really rich people who wanted something new to amuse them and producers of them. Most people wait a while before buying something like that when it first comes out. Everyone assumes the price will drop. People figure why buy now when i can wait two weeks and get em 100mill cheaper and have better skills to fly it? Think about it like this. When dvd players first came out not many people rushed out and bought them, but now everyone has atleast one. The first of these ships hit the open market less than a week ago. Did everyone really expect people to all line up and buy them all out at 1.3bill the first couple days they were available? Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Valorem ([email protected])
Hephaesteus Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.18 12:36:00 - [37] Originally by: pershphanie Originally by: Jonny JoJo Originally by: Aranbaal stuff stuff @ everyone knowing sooo much about a ship that pretty much no one has even finished training to fly yet. Just because a ship doesn't look badass of EFT doesn't mean it's going to suck. Really though you don't even know how to use the ship yet. I don't either for that matter it's kind of unknown atm. The problem with them is that people expected them to be either superhacs or better versions of CNR's/navy megas. Clearly they are not that. How ever just because they aren't the "i win" button everyone expected doesnt mean they wont have their role in both pve and pvp. Train marauders lvl4, actually fly the ship before assuming it sucks. As for the stall on the market, ofc that is to be expected. People have to train to fly them. The only people who own them now are really rich people who wanted something new to amuse them and producers of them. Most people wait a while before buying something like that when it first comes out. Everyone assumes the price will drop. People figure why buy now when i can wait two weeks and get em 100mill cheaper and have better skills to fly it? Think about it like this. When dvd players first came out not many people rushed out and bought them, but now everyone has atleast one. The first of these ships hit the open market less than a week ago. Did everyone really expect people to all line up and buy them all out at 1.3bill the first couple days they were available? Well I have used these on Sisi and yes they are very good for what they are, but they are not good enough for me to want to give up my Navy ship and spend the extra isk on one.
pershphanie Deadly Addiction	Posted - 2007.12.18 12:42:00 - [38] Originally by: Hephaesteus Well I have used these on Sisi and yes they are very good for what they are, but they are not good enough for me to want to give up my Navy ship and spend the extra isk on one. you used one extensively with marauders lvl4 trained? if so, you're one of the few. Still, not enough people have flown them with properly trained skills to know all the possible applications for them. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Valorem ([email protected])
Jarod Hawke Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2007.12.18 12:43:00 - [39] Edited by: Jarod Hawke on 18/12/2007 12:45:56 Since even tech 2 ships can't still be insured for their market value I'm guessing you would definitely need to be nut if you would go for these new ships. Probably yet another thing CCP forget to fix.
Demarcus Killjoy.	Posted - 2007.12.18 12:43:00 - [40] Ya a Caldari BS with three heavy energy neuts and the equivalent of eight cruise launchers and an extra mid slot for tank. Man that sucks I don't know why anyone would want one of those. ------------------------------------- You are all worthless, and weak.
Commoner Caldari Emergent Chaos Bedlam Consortium	Posted - 2007.12.18 12:44:00 - [41] I won't be buying one because i do missions in low-sec. IMO i think CCP gave this thing a wrong penalty in the first place by reducing sensor strength. The worst pvp'er in EVE :
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.12.18 12:56:00 - [42] Edited by: Shadowsword on 18/12/2007 12:58:48 Originally by: Aranbaal No need to compare the Paladin to the nightmare, already compared it to the abaddon and it doesnt even come close. Paladin allong with theother marauders just dont stand up for what they cost. yeah, right... - The paladin can fit easily 2 beams and 2 tachyons without using rigs or slots for fitting, and beams are overall more effective than pulses, even with scorch. Can your abaddon do the same? - The paladin can perma-run a tank and web and guns with 3 damage mods. The abaddon just can't. All the paladin need is 2 T1 CCC rigs and 3 cap recharger II. How many cap mods need an Abaddon to be sustainable? - All the other Marauder advantages, tractor, cargo, speed, web, ammos, slightly better tank. As for the other guy saying a CNR use 44% more ammo than a golem, that's wrong, it's 133% more ammos. Quote: T2 bs's cost around 600mil to invent and manufacture, however not everyone has max skills + implants so costs are going to be an extra 10-20% or so (aorund 700mil) Take a look at component prices in Jita. ------------------------------------------ What is Oomph? It the sound Amarr players makes when they get kicked in the ribs.
Kira Direll Niflhel TALIONIS ALLIANCE	Posted - 2007.12.18 12:58:00 - [43] Originally by: pershphanie Originally by: Jonny JoJo Originally by: Aranbaal Demand for marauders is reall low due to the fact that in general they are no as good as normal battleships. So only mission runners seem to have an interest in them for there large cargo holds. Normal pvp bsed players are sticking with the far cheaper and generaly better all round battleships. QFT This! Most people prefer to stuck with their faction permatanking tripple bcu 7 cruise cnr doing 800dps than reinvest into a golem. Try comparing a Paladin to a Nightmare for pvp. No point using the t2 bs as the faction ship outclasses it. This is what needs to be looked at, as mauroders are pre-nerfed @ everyone knowing sooo much about a ship that pretty much no one has even finished training to fly yet. Just because a ship doesn't look badass of EFT doesn't mean it's going to suck. Really though you don't even know how to use the ship yet. I don't either for that matter it's kind of unknown atm. The problem with them is that people expected them to be either superhacs or better versions of CNR's/navy megas. Clearly they are not that. How ever just because they aren't the "i win" button everyone expected doesnt mean they wont have their role in both pve and pvp. Train marauders lvl4, actually fly the ship before assuming it sucks. okay, if they arent better then T1 and faction BS where is the point in spending 900m up to 2b ISK then? their role is mission running and that role is filled with faction and T1 BS right now. there is simply no need for marauders at this ridicolous prize and production costs. a 900m salvage boat... suuuuuure. Quote: Think about it like this. When dvd players first came out not many people rushed out and bought them, but now everyone has atleast one. The first of these ships hit the open market less than a week ago. Did everyone really expect people to all line up and buy them all out at 1.3bill the first couple days they were available? what has DVD players with a clear and huge advantage to do with marauders that offer very little (if ever) advantage over existing boats? --- Disclaimer: sadly, all dumbass opinions or expressions i make _do_ reflect on my corp. they might not reflect on individual members, but who am i to not take responsibility and act accoordingly?
Hephaesteus Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.18 13:10:00 - [44] Originally by: pershphanie Originally by: Hephaesteus Well I have used these on Sisi and yes they are very good for what they are, but they are not good enough for me to want to give up my Navy ship and spend the extra isk on one. you used one extensively with marauders lvl4 trained? if so, you're one of the few. Still, not enough people have flown them with properly trained skills to know all the possible applications for them. Yes I took Marauders skill to lvl 4, and yes it is a good ship to mission in, but not good enough to make me want to buy one. I really don't see them being used for anything other than the pve side of Eve because of the huge Ecm hole. That said i'm sure their is someone somewhere trying to figure out how to make it the solo ship of hybrid death, but it is too easily jammed imho to be of any use in a gang. Time will tell I guess.
FingerThief Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.18 13:16:00 - [45] Originally by: Sicil Fioet Kronos BPCs cost something like 40-50 mil per run and tech I bs is 90 mil I wonder how you came up with that number.
Felysta Sandorn Caldari System-Lords Insurgency	Posted - 2007.12.18 13:17:00 - [46] I ran all the production costs through a spreadsheet, and if you own all the blueprints for all of the components and just build it out of raw materials, a t2 BS costs about 200mil plus the BS itself (so if you have the BP for that too, like 250mil for a BOps or 280 for a Marauder). The only costly part is the invention, and I think with good decryptors and a t1 ship, you're looking at a 30% chance to invent, so 300mil for a BOps or 330 for a Marauder... Add that on to the original price, and you're looking at 550mil for a BOps and 620 for a Marauder. Way too expensive for what they are in my opinion... Latest Video, Click Here!
Feng Schui Minmatar The Ninja Coalition Drunken N Disorderly	Posted - 2007.12.18 13:23:00 - [47] you're forgetting to include opportunity costs in that figure.
Lara Dantreb New Horizons	Posted - 2007.12.18 13:25:00 - [48] Originally by: Lara Dantreb Edited by: Lara Dantreb on 11/12/2007 01:09:57 My corp produces and sells T2 components. ATM the profit is insane but I don't like it : the prices are stupid, people buy components in the hope to be among the first to produce T2 BS and Jump Freighters. I've counted 1000 BS construction skill sold over a few regions only. People hope to make a good profit by making these ships but there is one point no one considers : with the actual production costs, very few or no one will be able to afford these ships : we're heading to a gigantic crash : when hundreds of people will have lost billions in this venture, you will read their complaints in these forums. My bit of advice is : don't hope too much, wait 1 week and see Edit : Finally understood why things are like they are : CCP needed a huge isk-sink to slow down the inflation. Here it is I posted that 1 week ago
Reiisha Splint Eye Probabilities Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.18 13:29:00 - [49] 1) Very low demand, due to a specific use (mission running, npc'ing) 2) Very high skill requirements 3) Very difficult to produce, both in inventing and manufacturing 4) Very durable - People do not tend to lose ships like this, especially since they won't see much use in PvP. Hence, when people buy them, they don't buy them again. EVE History Wiki
FingerThief Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.18 13:31:00 - [50] Originally by: Felysta Sandorn I ran all the production costs through a spreadsheet, and if you own all the blueprints for all of the components and just build it out of raw materials, a t2 BS costs about 200mil plus the BS itself (so if you have the BP for that too, like 250mil for a BOps or 280 for a Marauder). The only costly part is the invention, and I think with good decryptors and a t1 ship, you're looking at a 30% chance to invent, so 300mil for a BOps or 330 for a Marauder... Add that on to the original price, and you're looking at 550mil for a BOps and 620 for a Marauder. Way too expensive for what they are in my opinion... Something is utterly wrong with your math there. If you run 20 jobs with ship and decryptor that alone is a market value of 2.5B ( exluding 640 Mech Eng Datacores that are another 1.28B ) Getting 4 runs out of 20 ( optimistic ) that is a minimum of 600M per BPC run. At current market price from Jita ( using Advanced Materials ) building the Construction Components its 699.410.000 ISK ( for the components only, incl. Construction Blocks, Megacyte and Morphite ). Add 160 Datacores at 2M + 1 megathron at 105M and you get 1.124M ... Factoring in Moon materials and reactions etc as free will certainly reduce that but not giving them value during the calc is just wrong since you deprive yourself from income. FT
Karr Meyn	Posted - 2007.12.18 13:38:00 - [51] Originally by: Lara Dantreb Edit : Finally understood why things are like they are : CCP needed a huge isk-sink to slow down the inflation. Here it is This is EXACT reason. █████ [Auction] - 30M+ SP █████
Joss Sparq Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.12.18 14:11:00 - [52] Originally by: Kayna Eelai why would any1 with a minimum of brain use a 2B ship for something that can be done in a 200M ship at more or less same speed? ... Gisti CNR does what? Say again?
pershphanie Deadly Addiction	Posted - 2007.12.18 14:12:00 - [53] Edited by: pershphanie on 18/12/2007 14:13:45 Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Valorem ([email protected])
pershphanie Deadly Addiction	Posted - 2007.12.18 14:13:00 - [54] Originally by: Kira Direll okay, if they arent better then T1 and faction BS where is the point in spending 900m up to 2b ISK then? their role is mission running and that role is filled with faction and T1 BS right now. there is simply no need for marauders at this ridicolous prize and production costs. ... a 50 mill domi can solo a 120mill diemos. Yet people still buy hacs. Different ships have different roles. That was my point. Marauders weren't meant to be exactly like navy issue bs's but better. That isn't the same thing as saying Marauders arent better than navy issue bs's. They are DIFFERENT. Originally by: Kira Direll a 900m salvage boat... suuuuuure. you have absolutely zero clue about what you are talking about. Originally by: Kira Direll edit: nobody says that marauders do suck. You just got done doing exactly that. Originally by: Kira Direll they just arent worth the prizetag and offer to little advantage over existing missionrunner setups. yes you have more room and some nice boni (tractorbeam, etc.) but using a mission maelstrom or CNR together with a specced loot cruiser offers more speed, more cargoroom at waaaay less costs. I'm not convinced you have a clue about them from reading your post tbh. Quote: Think about it like this. When dvd players first came out not many people rushed out and bought them, but now everyone has atleast one. The first of these ships hit the open market less than a week ago. Did everyone really expect people to all line up and buy them all out at 1.3bill the first couple days they were available? Originally by: Kira Direll what has DVD players with a clear and huge advantage to do with marauders that offer very little (if ever) advantage over existing boats? Multiple extra high slots + better resists + extra combat bonuses is not an advantage? Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Valorem ([email protected])
Ironnight Caldari x13	Posted - 2007.12.18 14:32:00 - [55] Originally by: pershphanie Multiple extra high slots + better resists + extra combat bonuses is not an advantage? Try fitting a Vargur and see how much powergird you have left to fit the remaining four high slots.
Joss Sparq Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.12.18 14:36:00 - [56] Edited by: Joss Sparq on 18/12/2007 14:36:23 Originally by: Gner Dechast Originally by: Jonny JoJo Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 18/12/2007 11:16:23 Cost to build mauroder = 600mil including invention costs. This 800-900mil nonsense is what the manufacturers want you to beleive! /me has plenty of maurader BPC's & builds them I don't know what your angle is, gross failure in math or some secret source for components - maybe something else... I've done my share of calculations and I concur with the more popular conclusion that the build price really is 800-900mill /signed, I too call shenanigans upon them.
Jonny JoJo Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.12.18 14:38:00 - [57] Originally by: Joss Sparq Edited by: Joss Sparq on 18/12/2007 14:36:23 Originally by: Gner Dechast Originally by: Jonny JoJo Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 18/12/2007 11:16:23 Cost to build mauroder = 600mil including invention costs. This 800-900mil nonsense is what the manufacturers want you to beleive! /me has plenty of maurader BPC's & builds them I don't know what your angle is, gross failure in math or some secret source for components - maybe something else... I've done my share of calculations and I concur with the more popular conclusion that the build price really is 800-900mill /signed, I too call shenanigans upon them. yeah, and the Abaddon costs 180mil to build. Newbie manufacturers/inventors are the problem. Pimp inventors/manufacturers know how to make isk outta this Refresh to see next Real Life CCP sig(16 total)
Aranbaal Minmatar Malevolent Intentions	Posted - 2007.12.18 14:59:00 - [58] Originally by: pershphanie Originally by: Jonny JoJo Originally by: Aranbaal Demand for marauders is reall low due to the fact that in general they are no as good as normal battleships. So only mission runners seem to have an interest in them for there large cargo holds. Normal pvp bsed players are sticking with the far cheaper and generaly better all round battleships. QFT This! Most people prefer to stuck with their faction permatanking tripple bcu 7 cruise cnr doing 800dps than reinvest into a golem. Try comparing a Paladin to a Nightmare for pvp. No point using the t2 bs as the faction ship outclasses it. This is what needs to be looked at, as mauroders are pre-nerfed @ everyone knowing sooo much about a ship that pretty much no one has even finished training to fly yet. Just because a ship doesn't look badass of EFT doesn't mean it's going to suck. Really though you don't even know how to use the ship yet. I don't either for that matter it's kind of unknown atm. The problem with them is that people expected them to be either superhacs or better versions of CNR's/navy megas. Clearly they are not that. How ever just because they aren't the "i win" button everyone expected doesnt mean they wont have their role in both pve and pvp. Train marauders lvl4, actually fly the ship before assuming it sucks. As for the stall on the market, ofc that is to be expected. People have to train to fly them. The only people who own them now are really rich people who wanted something new to amuse them and producers of them. Most people wait a while before buying something like that when it first comes out. Everyone assumes the price will drop. People figure why buy now when i can wait two weeks and get em 100mill cheaper and have better skills to fly it? Think about it like this. When dvd players first came out not many people rushed out and bought them, but now everyone has atleast one. The first of these ships hit the open market less than a week ago. Did everyone really expect people to all line up and buy them all out at 1.3bill the first couple days they were available? People arent expecting them to be far beter than the faction ships but for the price of them people expect them to be better than the tier 3 battleships, The paladin is costing 800m -1 billion isk at the moment and the abaddon 140-150m. The abaddon is the better ship. Does exactly the same ammount of dmg an almost twice as well. Its the same for the other races. The only Marauder that does look worth flying is the Vargur but then it only tanks slightly better than the maelstrom for 4-5x the price. T2 battleships FTL
Kira Direll Niflhel TALIONIS ALLIANCE	Posted - 2007.12.18 15:15:00 - [59] Edited by: Kira Direll on 18/12/2007 15:25:35 Originally by: pershphanie Originally by: Kira Direll okay, if they arent better then T1 and faction BS where is the point in spending 900m up to 2b ISK then? their role is mission running and that role is filled with faction and T1 BS right now. there is simply no need for marauders at this ridicolous prize and production costs. ... a 50 mill domi can solo a 120mill diemos. Yet people still buy hacs. Different ships have different roles. That was my point. Marauders weren't meant to be exactly like navy issue bs's but better. That isn't the same thing as saying Marauders arent better than navy issue bs's. They are DIFFERENT. what the hell are you talking about? HACs arent missionrunners. okay, for clearance: HACs are specced ships with a role that they are fulfilling great. marauders are specced ships with a role that they fulfill great too. now to the point: if HACs would cost in the 600m (before fitting), hardly anyone would fly them, because a domi can solo a HAC. got it? why spending 600m if a 50m ship can do the job? sure HACs have advantages and are great, but they have to be worth the prize-tag. with marauders its the same. fine they are a little better then faction BS, but they cost _not_ a little more then faction BS, they cost an absurd amount of ISK for such relativly small advantages. Originally by: Kira Direll a 900m salvage boat... suuuuuure. you have absolutely zero clue about what you are talking about. earlier in this thread someone mentioned exactly this. making a salvageboat from a marauder. maybe it was irony i dont know. Originally by: Kira Direll edit: nobody says that marauders do suck. You just got done doing exactly that. i did not. reading and understanding rules, mate. Quote: Think about it like this. When dvd players first came out not many people rushed out and bought them, but now everyone has atleast one. The first of these ships hit the open market less than a week ago. Did everyone really expect people to all line up and buy them all out at 1.3bill the first couple days they were available? Originally by: Kira Direll what has DVD players with a clear and huge advantage to do with marauders that offer very little (if ever) advantage over existing boats? Multiple extra high slots + better resists + extra combat bonuses is not an advantage? it is. but this relativly small advantage is in no way enough to make it 700m - 900m ISK worth. Quote: People arent expecting them to be far beter than the faction ships but for the price of them people expect them to be better than the tier 3 battleships, The paladin is costing 800m -1 billion isk at the moment and the abaddon 140-150m. The abaddon is the better ship. Does exactly the same ammount of dmg an almost twice as well. Its the same for the other races. The only Marauder that does look worth flying is the Vargur but then it only tanks slightly better than the maelstrom for 4-5x the price. T2 battleships FTL thats what im talking about. T2 BS arent bad. they have all the nice boni, etc. but they arent worth the money they cost to be produced. --- Disclaimer: sadly, all dumbass opinions or expressions i make _do_ reflect on my corp. they might not reflect on individual members, but who am i to not take responsibility and act accoordingly?
Kuseka Adama Gallente WOLFPACK DELTA	Posted - 2007.12.18 15:19:00 - [60] If the black ops don't sell its only because they don't trust them to be safely bought. The black ops are the scariest ships i have ever seen. The stealth bomber had a limited role. On the other hand you can quite literally turn the black ops into ANY kind of ship. Mission runner? Sure thing no problem. Gate camper? With ease. High speed strike force commander? Yep that too. Front line fighter? Ohhh hell yeah. This is a ship thats going to be produced as much as possible but probably sold on a very small scale. And i cant blame them when you look at what one of those things can do. Covert ops have gone to a whole new level because of this class. Do not be surprised if you only ever see one or two of these in high sec. The black ops is one hell of a zero sec ship and its gonna be used there. The versatility of this ship can not be overstated.

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