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The Defiants call upon you.

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Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.12.23 23:55:00 - [61] Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon There is no "doctrine" overriding my instincts, Thrace. Insulting your brothers and sisters when they disagree with you does not get you -- or our people -- anywhere. I thought Electus Matari doctrine was to support the Republic in all things? It is my understanding that the Defiants and all who aid them are regarded traitors to the Republic by Parliment decree. While the instincts of your warriors stated here clearly say they wish to join us in battle against the Amarr the official word of the Electus Matari is that you will not get involved. Quite understandable, you cannot join this fight without going against the Republic and therefore Electus Matari doctine. How you get insulted by this simple fact is beyond me. We don't expect you to fight for the Matari people, we don't expect you to stand against the Amarr. But we will and you can be as offended as you like about that fact. Neither your wounded sensibilities nor Amarrian lasers will stop our march.
Nihils Astari Gallente Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.12.24 03:37:00 - [62] Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri Anyone who answers positively to this message can consider themselves kill on sight. Wouldn't have it any other way, slaver. Welcome back Defiants!
Conlin Gallente Yiotul Fighters Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.12.24 08:17:00 - [63] Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri Anyone who answers positively to this message can consider themselves kill on sight. Oh no
Jacinda Molanth	Posted - 2007.12.24 17:56:00 - [64] Originally by: Tharrn Originally by: Agustus Caesar Originally by: Jacinda Molanth Odd how duct tape and rust encrusted vessels have beaten your Golden Fleet. Really speaks volumes about the quality of their own ships doesn't it? It really speaks volumes about your race that your ships are designed to run away, doesn't it? I understand that fast deployment may be a foreign subject to the Amarr, after all we all know how fast your ships are. As discussed however your fleet is larger, thereby necessitating a need for rapid deployment of our ships. Speed therefore is a priority. If you need any more help with tactics Tharrn, give a yell.
Verone Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.12.24 19:03:00 - [65] Originally by: Jacinda Molanth I understand that fast deployment may be a foreign subject to the Amarr... Yeah, no doubt. I see that whoever's "in charge" is still working on the deployment of a new leader. Been a while... >>> TRIBUTE TO A FALLEN WINGMAN <<<
Ottom Ephesianos Amarr Pirate Radio	Posted - 2007.12.24 19:28:00 - [66] On Minmatar and Amarr ships the differences are many however the main reason I as an Amarr switched to flying Minmatar ships from Caldari ships was because of the 1400mm howitzer cannon. --------------------------------- "Trust me I've done this before." Elite R. Ephesianos ---------------------------------
Varim The Ragnarg Brotherhood	Posted - 2007.12.24 22:06:00 - [67] The Ragnarg Brotherhood will send it's best combat pilots. For our people!
Tharrn Amarr Epitoth Fleetyards Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2007.12.24 23:29:00 - [68] Originally by: Andreus Ixiris Stuff Thank you for posting the tricks and quirks of how they exactly design their ships to run away better. Not that I asked for it. Now recruiting!
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Dichotomy Total Comfort	Posted - 2007.12.25 14:06:00 - [69] Edited by: Andreus Ixiris on 25/12/2007 14:16:05 Originally by: Tharrn Thank you for posting the tricks and quirks of how they exactly design their ships to run away better. Not that I asked for it. Tharrn, one day, I, or someone like me, will come from you in a "flying rustbucket". On that day, I, or they, will tear your ship apart at the seams until you desire to run away. I will make sure, when this happens, to remind you of what you have said. Incidentally, it was an explanation of why they can move faster. Moving faster does not neccessarily mean that they use this ability to run away - running away would neccessitate faster align speeds and superior warp drives, and I have seen no indication that Minmatar ships are possessed of these. No, faster subluminal speed simply means that their ships are more manouverable and are able to ensure their evasion of the already notoriously-bad tracking of your laser cannons. Basically, from what I've studied of Minmatar military strategy, they work on either sustained, short-range, high-speed assaults on vulnerable targets, usually using speed modules and autocannons, or a complex series of hit-and-fade attacks from long range, using artillery and damage/tracking/optimal range modifications. Now, the sustained, short-range barrages of autocannon fire can't be seen as cowardly at all - far from it. As for the hit-and-fade attacks, well, the simple fact is that the Amarrians have never been very good at dealing with that kind of attack, hence they label it cowardly in an attempt to goad Minmatar into abandoning it. Trust me: it won't work. ----- The views expressed in these posts, while inarguably correct, are not neccessarily the views of my corporation or alliance. I never sleep. I wait.
Kabajashi San Minmatar Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.12.26 13:40:00 - [70] If ignorant both of your enemy and yourself, you are certain to be in peril. [Sun Tzu] Funny thing is, I can tell you this and you will still ignore me, Mr. Tharn.
Vinerya The Wings of Maak Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.12.26 15:21:00 - [71] Originally by: Kald Wedafur The Defiants call upon you. I'm proud to respond to the call ! I'll shall bring hell to slavers along with brothers and sisters. Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri Anyone who answers positively to this message can consider themselves kill on sight. You don't want to find your Nemesis. -----
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.26 15:58:00 - [72] Originally by: Andreus Ixiris Tharrn, one day, I, or someone like me, will come from you in a "flying rustbucket". On that day, I, or they, will tear your ship apart at the seams until you desire to run away. More likely, you'll orbit at a range and speed that prevents any real damage to thick amarrian armor...at which point you'll either withdraw, or slow down, close range, and be purified with holy light. It's fun to play "what if." It's funnier to watch such discussion derail a terrorist recruitment campaign.
Conlin Gallente Yiotul Fighters Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.12.26 16:38:00 - [73] Originally by: Garreck Originally by: Andreus Ixiris Tharrn, one day, I, or someone like me, will come from you in a "flying rustbucket". On that day, I, or they, will tear your ship apart at the seams until you desire to run away. More likely, you'll orbit at a range and speed that prevents any real damage to thick amarrian armor...at which point you'll either withdraw, or slow down, close range, and be purified with holy light. It's fun to play "what if." It's funnier to watch such discussion derail a terrorist recruitment campaign. Come off that high perch of yours garreck , we forgot the bird seed .
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.26 17:28:00 - [74] Originally by: Conlin Come off that high perch of yours garreck High perch? Surely not. I've flown the rustbuckets, and continue to do so in certain applications. My hands are not clean, and I'll not pretend that I don't find the vagabond or huginn in particular to be at least useful...and I'm certainly keenly aware of their weaknesses and short-comings. In my experience, though, I'd often rather be interfaced to a curse. Also in my experience, I far prefer a 'geddon by my side than any battleship the slave-kin have engineered. In my experience, Clavius, a pilot I continue to aspire to be like, has had terrific success with the arbitrator over all manner of terrorist vessels. In my experience, nothing sets a bait and switch quite like a maller. In my experience, Amarr engineering is every bit the match for Matari engineering...leaving the subtleties and ambiguities of combat to be filled in by the pilot or commander.
Melichor Duraldi Gallente Fourth Circle Total Comfort	Posted - 2007.12.26 18:19:00 - [75] Originally by: Garreck In my experience, though, I'd often rather be interfaced to a curse. The curse is a sexy ship and one of my favorites. I may not fly it like I would like to yet, but I still love it.
Elsebeth Rhiannon Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.12.27 14:41:00 - [76] Originally by: Telemicus Thrace Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon I thought Electus Matari doctrine was to support the Republic in all things? It is not "doctrine" any more than the U'Ker "we come for our people" is doctrine. It is merely doing what we believe is right. Quote: It is my understanding that the Defiants and all who aid them are regarded traitors to the Republic by Parliment decree. It is my understanding the Defiants are wanted for a trial. I have seen nothing about people who aid them outside of the Republic, but of course I might be mistaken. Quote: How you get insulted by this simple fact is beyond me. We don't expect you to fight for the Matari people There, you answer your own question. We do fight for the people. We disagree with you on the methods, not on the cause. I think this is enough of this again in this thread; my apologies to the Defiants for the hijacking. If you want to discuss it further, Thrace, like always you know where to find me. Elsebeth Rhiannon -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
Curry Kior Minmatar Si chou zhi lu	Posted - 2007.12.27 19:16:00 - [77] Originally by: Kald Wedafur Children of Matar, Karishal bade us struggle for our people, struggle and never give in.. and in his name we shall always do so. I can think of no more fitting words to end with than his: Quote: "There were once men who stood strong and unbending against the Amarr. Never did they kneel, not once did they call them master. The Amarr tried and tried to defeat them, to break their will, they found the task beyond them. These Minmatar were called the Defiants and in their name we will fight! We will carry their name into the heart of the Amarr and they shall tremble at the very mention of it. We shall stand victorious or we will die with our hands around their throats, for we are the Defiants! .. and we shall never give in." Kald, Your words and Karishal's words ignite my blood and I can not sit complacent any longer. I dedicate myself and the resources of my corporation to the struggle to free the enslaved and to war against the 7th Fleet. We come for our people! Curry Kior, Wu Xei CEO of Si Chou Zhi Lu http://currykior.vox.com/
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.12.27 22:19:00 - [78] No need to discuss it Elsebeth, you have just repeated back to me what I said in the first place. We know exactly where the Republic stands on this matter although you might want to explain it to the rest of the Electus Matari. As for those brave warriors who have answered the war drums of the Defiants, I salute you. While we await further orders from Captain Wedafur head to our public channel "Deck23". From there we can begin to co-ordinate our efforts with you. Be warned it is a public place and many who mean our cause harm monitor it. From there we can arrange something more secure until the Defiants release details of their Op-Comm. Rise.
Myyona Minmatar Thukker Mix	Posted - 2007.12.28 12:25:00 - [79] "While war prospers, humans suffer." Time to stock up food, cloth and medical supplies and turn The Wanderer towards The Bleak Lands once again.
Suva Medinna Minmatar Acme Technologies Incorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.12.31 03:27:00 - [80] We are glad to have you back, and look forward to flying with you, Defiants!
Curry Kior Minmatar Si chou zhi lu	Posted - 2007.12.31 05:55:00 - [81] Edited by: Curry Kior on 31/12/2007 05:58:57 Si Chou Zhi Lu reports the destruction of the 7th Fleet Command Post in Huola. The defense forces were eliminated and the Command Post destroyed. I am prepared to deliver additional intel to the Defiants upon request. The valiant pilots of Si Chou Zhi Lu will return again to the Bleak Lands until the 7th is no more. Curry Kior, Wu Xei CEO of Si Chou Zhi Lu http://currykior.vox.com/
Elsebeth Rhiannon Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.12.31 09:36:00 - [82] Originally by: Telemicus Thrace No need to discuss it Elsebeth, you have just repeated back to me what I said in the first place. We know exactly where the Republic stands on this matter although you might want to explain it to the rest of the Electus Matari. I did not object to your interpretation of policy in the first place, Thrace -- just your implication that our policies result from cold doctrine and not caring for our people, instead of true instinct for good. I know you were intelligent enough to see the difference, and I have high hopes that your experiences since have not let your brain totally rot. As to outcasting and stuff like that -- stop feeling sorry for yourself and begging for pity. If you truly wanted to come home, EM would hire you in a heartbeat. We have given a place to go and and a chance to redeem themselves to worse. (And Shakor, before you blow a fuse, no, I am not referring to you here.) Elsebeth Not in a diplomatic capacity -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.12.31 11:07:00 - [83] I spit on your pity. Do you understand the situation between those who stand with the Defiants and those who stand with Midular? This is not some petty difference of opinion. We have all seen Midular's death squads, we know full well what we have had to do for the cause. The Republic Parliment has deemed the Defiants and all who aid them to be traitors. Yet Electus Matari would go against that and take me back into their ranks? You would harbour traitors against the decree of your own leader? The official stance of the Electus Matari is to not get involved in the Bleak Lands offensive. Yet Electus Matari pilots have publicaly answered the Defiants call. That would make them outlaws under Republic law. You say you act not out of Electus Matari doctrine because that implies you do not care for our people. Why is caring for our people not part of your doctrine? You claim to act out of an instinct for good, if that is good then I will be evil but truth is I leave such abstract concepts to the god fearing. Your people offer us "moral support" in one breath then condemn us in the next. You need to decide what you stand for and speak with one voice. Perhaps then I can take you Republicans more seriously. I will not return to the Republic, not until it finds a real leader. Personally my choice for Prime Minister would be Malaetu Shakor. He is a leader worth following. Quote: The liberty of our people is solely our responsibility. Tempting as it is to foist this burden upon our well-wishers, we must never forget that the onus of our emancipation rests with us and us alone. For too long, our proud people have been subjugated to the whims of enslavers, forced to endure relentless suffering and humiliation at the hands of people whose motivations, masked though they may be by florid religious claptrap, remain as base and despicable as those of the playground bully. If ever there was a time to rise, if ever there was a time to join hands with our brothers, that time is now. At this exact junction in history we have within our grasp the means to loosen our tormentors hold and win freedom for our kin. Opportunities are there to be taken. Brothers, we must rise. Malaetu Shakor, Republic Parliament Head Speaking before the Tribal Council November 27th, YC 107 I hope there are still those in the Republic who are stirred by such words and have the conviction to take up arms and join their Brothers in the Bleak Lands. Did Drupar ask for permission to snatch up the Khumaak? no. Warriors know when it is time to strike and that time is upon us.
Elsebeth Rhiannon Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.12.31 12:21:00 - [84] Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 31/12/2007 12:23:25 Originally by: Telemicus Thrace The Republic Parliment has deemed the Defiants and all who aid them to be traitors. Yet Electus Matari would go against that and take me back into their ranks? You would harbour traitors against the decree of your own leader? Even a traitor can turn back. We "harbour" Darius Shakor and are proud to do so. There has been no resentment whatsoever towards us from the government over that, nor any order to the contrary. Quite the opposite, we continue to enjoy the trust and the good standings. Quote: The official stance of the Electus Matari is to not get involved in the Bleak Lands offensive. Yet Electus Matari pilots have publicaly answered the Defiants call. That would make them outlaws under Republic law. I have yet to see a government order that makes say yourself an "outlaw". No Republic Fleet vessel or other loyalist party fires on you on sight, if you dock on our stations you are free to do so and free to undock in peace and go your way, if you should choose to turn back and join a loyalist force, no government order would likely come down to demand we release you into their custody instead of putting you to good work. So kindly stop exaggerating your position in a futile effort to make yourself the tragic hero. As to our pilots, like I said above, no EM pilot will fire in Bleak Lands or elsewhere on parties other than our CONCORD-sanctioned enemies and standard (pirate) target list, other than in self-defense. The Gradient pilot in this thread have been spoken with, has agreed with our reasoning, and chosen out of his free will to remain in EM, knowing the stance above and sticking to it. He is no traitor and I'd rather you'd not insult him like that. Quote: Why is caring for our people not part of your doctrine? Have you stopped beating your slaves yet? Elsebeth -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
Elsebeth Rhiannon Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.12.31 12:25:00 - [85] Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 31/12/2007 12:25:34 As to stirring words, I suggest you read (again) the speech by Republic Fleet Admiral Kanth Filmir, addressed to U'K but apparently totally escaping them: http://www.eve-search.com/thread/475264 -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
Kabajashi San Minmatar Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.12.31 13:04:00 - [86] Mrs. Rhiannon, I don't like to quote out of context but there is one part of the speech of Admiral Filmir that is showing the true problem more than anything else: The Republic is here to protect that most precious thing. It is here to protect our freedoms. And so it does. The Republic serves its people, and the Fleet protects its people. What you and the Admiral seem to forget is that the people of the Republic are just that - Republican citizens. That it may be protecting your freedom but noone else's. But we are more. The tribes consist of more than those living in the Republic. It is the numerous pod pilots living out there with no more bonds to the Republic than our common ancestors. It is the settlers who were looking for new grounds on far away planets. And even more important it is our brothers in chains, for whose the Republic is not more than a hollow word. You have forgotten, like so many else, that as Matari, as warriors, as honourable man, it is our duty to fight for those of our kinsmen who cannot fight for themselves. You value your Republic, your parliament, your political institutions and the big words you fling around. The Admiral said that the freedom and the ideals of the Republic are more worth than any man. I say the freedom of our brothers and the ideals of our tribes are more worth than the Republic. Now, I know that many EM pilots are constantly out there in space, patrolling the borders, hunting slavers, intercepting convoys. I don't mean to insult you. But one day you will have to realize that the Republic is but a tool, a political body serving to organize whose living in its borders. It is not a purpose. The freedom of our brothers and the future of our tribes is. And we will have no future as long as our brothers are suffering. We cannot simply give up on them and go on in the name of the Republic. You will have to wake up, Mrs. Rhiannon, you will have to wake up.
Darius Shakor Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.12.31 13:14:00 - [87] I wonder how suddenly I got dragged into this. Ohh yes, Elsebeth, I should have known. So let me get this straight, your mention of me in refference to Thrace's comment about 'harbouring traitors' means you have viewed me as one of them in your mind? I knew we had our differences and still do but I guess I did not know until now how deep they were on your part. I did not join Electus Matari for redemption in the eyes of the Republic or EM itself. I did so for my own deeper redemption and to follow my own realisations. Everything I did in the name of the Ushra'Khan I have no regrets about. I think you need to make your point here Elsebeth and learn to leave it at that before your own personal feelings drop into the argument and confuse matters for all involved. Suggesting people are feeling sorry for themselves and such is not your place to judge and is just your style of provoking an argument. As is your addressing me twice with no real call to in your arguments. You did not want this kind of debate between alliance members on our own internal network, despite your words provoking such a thing in the same breath. You are now doing it again in public. You have made your point, it has been disagreed with. Why make it again for the sake of making it when the cost is a degeneration of relations on more fronts than alliance ones? Thrace, there is only one thing I think I agree with Elsebeth on in her posts and that is that there is no Republic sanction branding you or others who choose to work actively with the Defiants as outlaws and wanted men. And we do fight for our people in the Electus Matari too. The countless anti-pirate campaigns keeping civilians out of harms reach and the active wars we have with PIE, VV and, well for what it is worth, the En-Slavers too sees plenty of action. There was balance here once and nothing has changed except attitudes towards where people stand. ------ Shakor Clan Information Portal
Elsebeth Rhiannon Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.12.31 14:22:00 - [88] Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 31/12/2007 14:24:05 Darius, My point merely was that if Thrace is a traitor, so would you be. I said nothing of my personal estimate on that -- but since you asked on this nice oh-so-private forum, I'll answer you here too: no, I do not consider you one. I never did. Merely misguided, muddle-brained, and unable to separate your wishes from reality, and from what I hear you are recovering from that nicely too. Maybe your wishes to keep things out of public would be more believable if you did not drag stuff out here yourself. Your loyal sister in arms, Elsebeth Rhiannon -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
Elsebeth Rhiannon Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.12.31 14:24:00 - [89] Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 31/12/2007 14:24:14 -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
Jacinda Molanth	Posted - 2007.12.31 15:45:00 - [90] Edited by: Jacinda Molanth on 31/12/2007 15:51:09 Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 31/12/2007 14:24:05 Darius, My point merely was that if Thrace is a traitor, so would you be. I said nothing of my personal estimate on that -- but since you asked on this nice oh-so-private forum, I'll answer you here too: no, I do not consider you one. I never did. Merely misguided, muddle-brained, and unable to separate your wishes from reality, and from what I hear you are recovering from that nicely too. Maybe your wishes to keep things out of public would be more believable if you did not drag stuff out here yourself. Your loyal sister in arms, Elsebeth Rhiannon Lady Rhiannon; I fear you have mistaken the elected government for the Republic. The Republic we have is a wonderful framework of laws and ideals for democracy. The elected officials however are capable of indecision, flawed logic and corruption. Throughout known history politicians have been the target of these three flaws. I am afraid they now plague our current government. In the past several years our Parliament has shown a tendency of rule by submitting to the bullying pressure of the Amarr Empire rather than making decisions for the good of ALL Minmatar. They outlawed the Khumaak because the Amarr found them offensive, yet how offensive is slavery? Yet Malaetu Shakor still carries one though it is covered up. I still believe the death of Admiral Karishal was little more than an assassination yet such things are not allowed by Republic laws. These are two good examples of 'rule through submission'. Now slaves can be bought and sold throughout Republic space, is this GOOD for the people of the Republic? I claim the Parliament, the ruling body responsible for the running of our precious Republic have failed. Fear guides their decisions, not what is best for our people. Please ponder these points and wonder where these submissions will end, if ever. There comes a time when diplomacy can no longer accomplish anything. There comes a time when one needs to pick up a 'Big Stick' and smack the bully to put them back in line. This is that time. If you always fear, you will never succeed. Regards, Jacinda Molanth

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