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Remove or NERFBAT <Warp Scrambling> to death

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Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.27 18:14:00 - [121] matrix 1 op nil Originally by: ISD Cortes You're at liberty to use the rolling sig you had, as long as there's no chimeras covering the nether regions of voluptuous females.
Arn Novelus Caldari Venom's Asylum VENOM Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.27 18:16:00 - [122] i think that matrix did just sum up the collective awesomeness of eve in that post...gratz on the coherent way of saying exactly what an awful lot of us were feeling ________________________________________________________________________________________
Vathar Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.27 18:27:00 - [123] To the op: I've said it before, but aside from the proposed counters, your suggestion is plainly ridiculous. You mention that you lost your Abaddon to a 8 man gang ... Do you honestly expect to stand 8v1? don't you even think that if you get caught 8v1 you deserve to lose? Circumstances aside, let's think about the implications of your suggestion. When an inty enters a system and catches a BS with his pants down, it should take the rest of the gang roughly 30 seconds to reach him (depending on the size of the system. So for your suggestion to have an impact, it would mean that a frig-size scrambler should have a duration lower than this. Fair enough, but now what happens when two inties face each other? A fight can last more than 30 seconds, which means that after 30 seconds, whoever loses can get away? Not a brilliant prospect. Now let's scale up this to cruiser sized and let's say 1min warpscrambling ... yummie. Try to kill a tanked HAC/BC/CS in this timespan without blobbing it. I'm not even talking about capitals here !! Making warpscrambling chance based/duration based promotes blobbing, and we really don't need this atm. Why do people Blob gates? it's because if a reasonably agile target jumps in, you won't be able to web it before it has enough speed to backtrack to the gate ... ergo you need huge firepower to down it quickly enough! Same happens to avoid a target docking back. That's what happens when tackling becomes duration based! About the weight of the ship, it doesn't really matter as far as warpscrambling is concerned, since if you read backstory, you'll see that warpscrambling is just a disruption of the trajectory calculation built in the warp drive, so it's not harder to scramble a bigger ship (Granted, backstory and rp justifications don't weight much against game balance, but still) Oh, and last point, if interceptors can't tackle, what should we use them for? Originally by: Radeberger If you plan to make your alliance combat based, recruit pvpers with mining alts rather than miners with pvp alts[/qu
Ryysa Caldari	Posted - 2007.12.27 19:02:00 - [124] Originally by: Matrixcvd </thread> That was said really well. So true. EW Guide - KB Tool - My Music
Kadoes Khan	Posted - 2007.12.27 19:03:00 - [125] Originally by: NoNah Odd way off looking at it, but I'll run with it for the duration of this post. Advantages of WCS compared to Warp Scramblers. Warp scrambler gives 2 points WCS 1 point 2:1 Both take 30 CPU, 1 grid 2:1 Warp scramblers have an effective range of 7.5km, warp core stabilizers 249.9km. 1:16.66 Warp core stabilizers are in a generally less desired slot than the warp scram - 1:16.66+ Some ships have multiple built in warp core stabs none have built in warp scarmblers: 1:16.66++ Some ships are immune to warp scramblers, none are immune to warp core stabilizers. 1:16.66++ Infinity Oh dear you're right. A scrambler should give atleast 16 times more, which means... scramble to 250km, scramble for 32 points, scramble for 8 points at 187.5km or some other combination. Or why not cost 2 CPU to fit? Or have a few built in on offensive ships? Odd comparisson indeed. Effective range isn't really an issue as having a WCS at 249KM is just as useless as having a warp scrambler at 249km, a WCS is only effective when someone with a scram is in range. The reason mid slots are more desired is because of the scram, if you wanted to argue on the grounds of fitting a cap battery or something I might agree. Some ships? like the blockade runners? No ships are immune to WCS? How about dictors and heavy dictors? You can fit all the WCS and unless your in a mothership or titan you're going to be scrammed. However on the point of offensive being stronger than defensive, I find it better that offensive is stronger despite being a defensive player. The reason being is a defense that won't break promotes a rather dull pace to a video game. You're defense is there to extend your life for a bit not postpone it indefinitely. Even if scrams were removed you'd still have people bumping you to stop warp so the argument is rather pointless. -=^=- "Someday the world will recognize the genius in my insanity."
Ryysa Caldari	Posted - 2007.12.27 19:05:00 - [126] Originally by: Kadoes Khan No ships are immune to WCS? How about dictors and heavy dictors? You can fit all the WCS and unless your in a mothership or titan you're going to be scrammed. Last I checked, HICs could scram motherships and titans quite well. EW Guide - KB Tool - My Music
Danae Melios Azteca Transportation Unlimited	Posted - 2007.12.27 19:26:00 - [127] I still call Tarminic, or at least a Tarminic-like entity. Someone Tarminicesque. Originally by: game box Conceive a new life without boundaries, where murder, plunder, betrayal, and delusions of grandeur will lead you to boundless glory or to the brink of ruin.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2007.12.27 19:30:00 - [128] Originally by: Ryysa Originally by: Kadoes Khan No ships are immune to WCS? How about dictors and heavy dictors? You can fit all the WCS and unless your in a mothership or titan you're going to be scrammed. Last I checked, HICs could scram motherships and titans quite well. To be fair, what bubbles aren't even in the same league as scramming/disrupting warp.
NoNah	Posted - 2007.12.27 19:37:00 - [129] Originally by: Kadoes Khan Effective range isn't really an issue as having a WCS at 249KM is just as useless as having a warp scrambler at 249km, a WCS is only effective when someone with a scram is in range. The reason mid slots are more desired is because of the scram, if you wanted to argue on the grounds of fitting a cap battery or something I might agree. Some ships? like the blockade runners? No ships are immune to WCS? How about dictors and heavy dictors? You can fit all the WCS and unless your in a mothership or titan you're going to be scrammed. However on the point of offensive being stronger than defensive, I find it better that offensive is stronger despite being a defensive player. The reason being is a defense that won't break promotes a rather dull pace to a video game. You're defense is there to extend your life for a bit not postpone it indefinitely. Even if scrams were removed you'd still have people bumping you to stop warp so the argument is rather pointless. First off, entire post was to prove a point, or really the lack thereof. I'll admit to not being sure any ship can reach 249km out with a scram/disrupt, but wether it's 220 or 249 doesnt really matter. The reasons midslots are more valuable is for all EW-modules, half of the tank modules, MWD's, cap modules, tracking links and computers, sensor boosters... the list goes on and on. Supercapitals are immune, blockade runners have built in WCS. WCS does not affect any form of bubbles nor the focused fields of HIC's. This has nothing to do with the ships using them but the fact that it's entirely different modules. Bring me a ship that can stop a ship from warping by packing a warp scrambler or disruptor, when the opponent fit several WCS? Postcount: 516021
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2007.12.27 21:10:00 - [130] Originally by: Derek Sigres Originally by: Ryysa Originally by: Kadoes Khan No ships are immune to WCS? How about dictors and heavy dictors? You can fit all the WCS and unless your in a mothership or titan you're going to be scrammed. Last I checked, HICs could scram motherships and titans quite well. To be fair, what bubbles aren't even in the same league as scramming/disrupting warp. Learn Eve? He wasn't talking about the HIC's bubble.
snerdly snerd LTD	Posted - 2007.12.27 21:54:00 - [131] I demand that this idiot posts his lossmail for us to pick apart and laugh at! If he does, cookies for all! Originally by: "Securion Wolfheart" EVE might never again see such a good alliance as the one you are about to kill off, with the help of the rest of the scum and trash you have pulled together against BOB.
Shaemell Buttleson Darwin With Attitude oooh Shiny	Posted - 2007.12.27 22:00:00 - [132] Didn't read all the replies but I expect someone else suggested it allready! USE A GODDAM STAB!
E Vile Fifth Exiled Legion SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.27 23:13:00 - [133] Edited by: E Vile on 27/12/2007 23:13:36 As I stated in another thread on this matter- I think the one point that makes lots of sense is the process of disrupting someones warp drive should be complex. Any tiny ship should not have this complex high energy ability. Think common sense for a moment of how something would actually jam a ships ability to initiate it's warp drive systems. A tiny crappy ship should not have the ability to disrupt the huge engine drive of a battleship or battlecruiser. Not sure how this can be solved. Maybe make mass a issue of scrams. Maybe make different size scrams. Or specialty roles like suggested. Scrams are too easily fit by anything. It seems like a thoughtless generic fitting. On a compairison note in Star Wars the only ship I noticed that tried to warp scram someone was a Star Destroyer. I've never seen a sci-fi where ****ty little frig size ships can stop any size ship from using it's jump drive systems. Maybe along with size also facter inate warp scram resistances to ships. So it might take a bunch of frigs to scram a Battleship. My biggest problem is the ability 1 crap noob ship can render a battleships massive warp systems useless. This issue does warrent consideration in my opinion.
Ryysa Caldari	Posted - 2007.12.27 23:21:00 - [134] Originally by: Atsuko Ratu Learn Eve? He wasn't talking about the HIC's bubble. No offence, but I think I know EvE a magnitude better than you do mr. Achura. That said, learn to read. EW Guide - KB Tool - My Music
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.12.27 23:38:00 - [135] Originally by: E Vile I think the one point that makes lots of sense is the process of disrupting someones warp drive should be complex. Any tiny ship should not have this complex high energy ability. Think common sense for a moment of how something would actually jam a ships ability to initiate it's warp drive systems. A tiny crappy ship should not have the ability to disrupt the huge engine drive of a battleship or battlecruiser. Not sure how this can be solved. Maybe make mass a issue of scrams. Maybe make different size scrams. Or specialty roles like suggested. A) EvE playability >> RP. Scrams are mandatory for PvP (except in places you can use bubbles). Tackling ships should be used instead of all-BS groups. B) Even if we'll play the 'RP game', it says scrams mess up the nav computer, same way ECM messes up your targetting computers. Now, a griffin (hell, a noobship with ECM can) can jam a BS, do you have a problem with that? Originally by: E Vile My biggest problem is the ability 1 crap noob ship can render a battleships massive warp systems useless. This issue does warrent consideration in my opinion. Yes, the issue DOES warrant consideration - people without guns and drones on their BS to fend off noob-ships should have their forum posting rights revoked, forever. Rifters!
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2007.12.28 00:18:00 - [136] Edited by: Atsuko Ratu on 28/12/2007 00:21:47 Edited by: Atsuko Ratu on 28/12/2007 00:20:11 Originally by: Ryysa Originally by: Atsuko Ratu Learn Eve? He wasn't talking about the HIC's bubble. No offence, but I think I know EvE a magnitude better than you do mr. Achura. That said, learn to read. You must have mispelt "warp" or you think he was talking about the HIC's bubble feature, which he was not. Either way, Edit: whoa, I just realized, I was never talking to you oO. Who are you again? XD my post wasn't directed at you. I guess the "he" part mislead you. Sorry, I rarely look at the faces to see which gender the poster's avatar is
Ryysa Caldari	Posted - 2007.12.28 00:37:00 - [137] Originally by: Atsuko Ratu I was never talking to you oO. Who are you again? XD my post wasn't directed at you. I guess the "he" part mislead you. Sorry, I rarely look at the faces to see which gender the poster's avatar is Oops. Actually I failed at reading the quote pyramid and thought that you were talking to me... Anyway, sorry for confusion, and we both actually meant exactly the same thing >.< No harm done I guess <3 EW Guide - KB Tool - My Music
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2007.12.28 00:54:00 - [138] Originally by: Ryysa Originally by: Atsuko Ratu I was never talking to you oO. Who are you again? XD my post wasn't directed at you. I guess the "he" part mislead you. Sorry, I rarely look at the faces to see which gender the poster's avatar is Oops. Actually I failed at reading the quote pyramid and thought that you were talking to me... Anyway, sorry for confusion, and we both actually meant exactly the same thing >.< No harm done I guess <3 Hug And that's "Master Achura" to you
Trigos Trilobi Man-Eating Village Idiots	Posted - 2007.12.28 05:40:00 - [139] Originally by: E Vile Edited by: E Vile on 27/12/2007 23:13:36 As I stated in another thread on this matter- I think the one point that makes lots of sense is the process of disrupting someones warp drive should be complex. Any tiny ship should not have this complex high energy ability. Think common sense for a moment of how something would actually jam a ships ability to initiate it's warp drive systems. A tiny crappy ship should not have the ability to disrupt the huge engine drive of a battleship or battlecruiser. Not sure how this can be solved. Maybe make mass a issue of scrams. Maybe make different size scrams. Or specialty roles like suggested. Scrams are too easily fit by anything. It seems like a thoughtless generic fitting. You speak of 'sense' and 'common sense' but fail to give any real arguments why 'sense' or 'common sense' would dictate that small ships shouldn't be able to scram larger ships, except your gut feeling. Furthermore you completely ignore the game balance issue with scrams; what if you'd need a bs to scram a bs or a cruiser to scram another cruiser? Interceptors would be largely obsolete, newbs would have really hard / long time to train before they can be anywhere close to useful in gangs etc. How would it benefit the game if your proposal went through? These are the kinds of questions you should be thinking instead of promoting your gut feeling as common sense. Quote: On a compairison note in Star Wars the only ship I noticed that tried to warp scram someone was a Star Destroyer. I've never seen a sci-fi where ****ty little frig size ships can stop any size ship from using it's jump drive systems. Arguments based on real world realism, while occasionally tempting, usually fail as game balance and game world coherence is more important than how a geddon compares to a ww2 naval unit. Realism arguments based on science FICTION on the other hand are absolutely worthless, especially if you pick an example which is highly unrealistic in itself. Slower than bullets lasers anyone? Basically your argument is based on the fact that George Lucas knows more about warp jamming than CCP? This whole thread really lacks content and foresight. If you want to suggest a change to the warp scrambling mechanics, you should atleast think for like 30 seconds what are the most ovbious benefits of the current systems to the game, and then consider for a good while your idea and wether it would actually be an improvement or a disaster like the op.
Dahak2150 Chaos Monkeys	Posted - 2007.12.28 05:54:00 - [140] blink ---------------- Originally by: "Cyberus" cause its has no sence anyway your brains is simply wont accept that anyway.
Setana Manoro Gallente Firefly Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.28 06:36:00 - [141] Originally by: Nightsheir What ? It is completely nonsense to hold a 110 mil tonage ship with a very small frigate forever ! All you need is a warp inhibitor module some 1 energy / sec and after activating it, wait for your gang to arrive , this is completely nonsense/insane. There should be no 1 or 0's in pvp . Let me tell you what pvp is . Everything your enemy does should be able to be countered to some extent. With bonuses , you can counter particular things better* or without modules or with penalties, you still* should be able to counter* it with worse efficiency. But for eve, there are so many 1 and 0's that completely disable your target to death or do nothing at all . Like if you turret disrupt and scramble a battleship with a cheap frigate, it is to be considered as you JUST KILLED IT ! Where the battleship did not have any chance at all to counter it , is this pvp ? Or anything close . Hell no . Well, i am not going to list all the things that should be changed, but warp scrambling seriously needs to be beaten to submission and work as i will explain. Okay, you activated a warp inhibitor or scrambler on your target ? Now you just put another 20 second to your targets WARP ALIGNING SPEED , like say . It takes roughly 15 seconds for a battleship to warp, but if a warp inhibitor is activated on the target, now it takes 35 seconds to align, that surely does what is intended as PREVENTING its escape .(yes you try to prevent it, but not completely stop it) . Now it just works as it should , because , as in weapons . STRONGER STUFF require bigger power grid and cpu , where you can fit a KRAP! warp inhibitor to COMPLETELY STOP A BATTLESHIP* from repositioning(escaping, where battleships are not supposed to die at first contact, not like expendable bunny frigates) // So Frigate class inhibitors adds +20 secs to warp aligning of target ship. Cruiser class inhibitors adds +30 secs to warp aligning of target ship. Battleship class inhibitors adds +40 secs to warp aligning of target ship. WhY? BECAUSE IN PVP , (( EVERYTHING SHOULD BE COUNTERED at better worse eficiency, depending on ship class, bonuses )) Now you just have given THAT 300 mil + battleship to CHOOSE NOT TO CONTINUE BATTLING , after meeting with a tackler and a lot more of his gangmates. OH ! SO YOUR ISK SINK PLANS RUINED ? YOU WANT PEOPLE TO LOSE STUFF QUICKLY SO THEY KEEP PLAYING THIS GAME because they need more isk to buy new ships . BUT YOU CAN STILL DO SO , by creating a new module or item , that gives you chance to escape from warp scrambling at a cost of fuel or some kind of element , just like nanite paste , but costs even more . THERE YOU HAVE YOUR ISK SINK, but you just have given a 110 million ton ship a chance to escape from 1 mil ton frigate's WRATH !! Yes , this is a whine thread. No , this is not a cheap whine thread. There is much to learn from it, just try to understand what pvp is without pulling your hair. And check out other games. I accept that eve is a different game and unique , BUT IT SHOULD BE BETTER THAN OTHERS , NOT WORSE !* (especialy in pvp) --> Wheee lol , my ship is better than your ship , i scrambled you , webbed you , now i will kill you !! WHAAT ? CCP: "Sorry bud, this is how it works, now you have to lose your pretty ship or marketting will lose its spin. BUT I WANT TO PAY! , I JUST DONT WANT TO LOSE MY SHIP! , warp escaping paste... lol You guys ever heard of RP ? (ROLE PLAYING) How am i supposed to role play, where i cant even hold my legs from shaking when i want to try low sec systems ? If its isk TAKE IT !, but leave my ship alone . And give me chance to abandon certain death situations from 1 energy / sec modules . Sorry for all these , but try to feel me . So, you are Emo + full of rage + little ***** whiner. Nice combo ! Rifter is not X-Wing CCP. Trinity model kinda sucks.
Chump Dump	Posted - 2007.12.28 09:20:00 - [142] you ask if we can read. but i wonder.. can you read, mr. OP? you were given constructive criticism on how to deal with tacklers. they all work, some better than others. its your fault you reject them. ccp has already implemented counters to warp scrams. why does it need more? just so you can mine in low sec with no worry? then i want gate guns and concord removed so i can pirate with no worry. that would bring balance. you could run forever. but i could hunt you forever.
MenanceWhite Antesignani Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.28 10:04:00 - [143] Allright, multiple solutions has already been provided for OPs first post in this topic. My questions are: 1. why is op still posting here instead of just following the suggestions? 2. why are people still posting here in the first place? OP is either a troll or some kid who just have'nt realized that everyone else either thinks that he's ******** or laughing at him because of his posts and NO dear, making more replies in the same style won't make you seem any better. Your standings with the other people in this thread already went below -8 and you have no chance or raise it higher than -8 after your third post, if you're so roleplaying.
TimMc Gallente Vidar Fierd Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.28 10:51:00 - [144] Guys I think the kid has gone back to WoW, you can stop beating on him now. Jita: No one gets out alive.
Dianeces Minmatar Repo Industries	Posted - 2007.12.28 11:14:00 - [145] Originally by: Kery Syander I'm gonna go with "Scrams are overpowered because I'm too dull witted to think of a counter." Srsly, I was in my Ibis last night autopiloting through lowsec, and what did I find when I came out of warp... but 3-4 big ships all sitting there. Before I could reach the gate, they locked me, and scrambled me. Naturally I panicked, as I did not want to lose my newly retrieved unit of trit. I tried to warp off, but I couldn't!!!! They ended up blowing me up, which drove me here to demand that all weapons, scrams, locking ablities, and ships be easily counterable by my Ibis. After all, it's the only ship I could possibly fly, and it was already fitted! OMGWTF CCP? <3 Kery
Sahriah BloodStone Caldari Underworld Protection Agency The Crimson Federation	Posted - 2007.12.29 09:10:00 - [146] Lets play a game shall we :D You can pick A or B (you need to pick before you continue Q: You are A: An intelligent person who can figure things out and who is not a noob B: A noob who will whine because he got killed If you choose A: you may choose one or multiples of the following 1. Fly with a gang who can tackle the frigs 2. Equip Neuts and duel webs (neuts to kill the MWD, webs to pin) and GUNS! yay 3. Fly your own interceptor 4. Fit a MWD to your BS 5. Do not go into low sec and stay out of war If you choose B: you must do everything that follows 1. Stay in an NPC corp 2. Are only allowed to become a mission runner, trader or miner (are never allowed to autopilot EVER) 3. Are not allowed on the forums 4. Stay off the forums Wasnt that game fun :D Now...I rarely feel the need to comment on the forums but really people who cannot adapt ruin this game...Yes some things need changing dude, but along with each good change follows 10 bad ones because CCP feels the need to appease the player base...Forum Statistics just in! The player base consists of (on the forums) 60%Whiners 30%13yr olds and under 10%Mature gamers (im being generous)
Ramson	Posted - 2007.12.29 12:21:00 - [147] Dear OP, How shall I put this,ah yes. Go back to WoW and stop taking up server bandwidth.
Firkragg Blue Labs Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.12.29 12:33:00 - [148] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Neon Genesis PVP IS EXACTLY WHAT I SAY IT IS AND I WONT HEAR ANYTHING TO THE CONTRARY EVEN THOUGH I HAVE LITTLE TO NO EXPERIENCE. ARE YOU MOCKING ME??!? ARE YOU MOCKING ME?!?!? I ROLEPLAY PVP ALL THE TIME IN HIGH-SEC!!! "I shoot you, My burning laser beams rip through the armour of your ship" "I slowly take off my silky dress letting it fall to the floor" "DUDE i told you were not doing that this time"
Acoco Osiris Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.29 17:05:00 - [149] Originally by: Nightsheir Lol , do not go to the wrong way . My pvp experience cannot fit within books let alone half a page forum post. So apparently you have amassed considerable PvP experience before your portrait has even loaded up onto the EVE-O forums. I must get PvP lessons from you, oh master of the art. ------------------- I nerfed my own sig To amuse you, here is my Retriever ever since its first Trinity deployment. RIP. * * * * ** * * * ** * * * * * *** *
Terianna Eri Amarr STK Scientific Black-Out	Posted - 2007.12.29 17:36:00 - [150] Originally by: Firkragg Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Neon Genesis PVP IS EXACTLY WHAT I SAY IT IS AND I WONT HEAR ANYTHING TO THE CONTRARY EVEN THOUGH I HAVE LITTLE TO NO EXPERIENCE. ARE YOU MOCKING ME??!? ARE YOU MOCKING ME?!?!? I ROLEPLAY PVP ALL THE TIME IN HIGH-SEC!!! "I shoot you, My burning laser beams rip through the armour of your ship" "I slowly take off my silky dress letting it fall to the floor" "DUDE i told you were not doing that this time" "I put on my robe and wizard hat" ? __________________________________

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