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actually mining IS AN ISK FAUCET!!!

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Exlegion Caldari New Light Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.02 21:16:00 - [121] Originally by: Frug Originally by: Richard Phallus Originally by: Vito Parabellum Mining is a indirect isk faucet. Argue definitions all night long but at the end of the (mining) day, there's new isk in the economy. /HEADDESK He's right you know. I read prism, I like prism, and I don't think his statement contradicts this at all. He's arguing definitions. It doesn't matter. At the end of the day there's new isk in the economy is true. He's blaming mining for isk injection caused by ship destruction. It's like saying purse designers increase the crime rate: 1. Designer designs purse 2. People wear purse 3. People get mugged 4. Therefore Designer is indirectly responsible for mugs. One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Guru
Richard Phallus	Posted - 2008.01.02 21:16:00 - [122] Edited by: Richard Phallus on 02/01/2008 21:17:05 Originally by: MotherMoon so you Weren't on the side of the dev! I knew it god damn it. I hope he comes back and says your wrong by name. if I mine I don't have to sell it. I can keep it to myself and then build ship that I will never insure yeah that's right I mine and then build ships and then I don't insure them. and then I explode. what now? What? How am I not saying the same thing as Prism?
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2008.01.02 21:17:00 - [123] Originally by: Exlegion Originally by: Frug Originally by: Richard Phallus Originally by: Vito Parabellum Mining is a indirect isk faucet. Argue definitions all night long but at the end of the (mining) day, there's new isk in the economy. /HEADDESK He's right you know. I read prism, I like prism, and I don't think his statement contradicts this at all. He's arguing definitions. It doesn't matter. At the end of the day there's new isk in the economy is true. He's blaming mining for isk injection caused by ship destruction. It's like saying purse designers increase the crime rate: 1. Designer designs purse 2. People wear purse 3. People get mugged 4. Therefore Designer is indirectly responsible for mugs. this pink supporter! Future art director at CCP! or texture guy, either or :P http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Drop Was in class with these folks :P
Richard Phallus	Posted - 2008.01.02 21:18:00 - [124] Originally by: MotherMoon no your not saying the same thing You aren't reading it right then. --
Yohanes Flame Point-Zero SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.02 21:20:00 - [125] That wasn't me posting for one and for 2 the entire problem is insurance that you don't have to pay for, the basic payout that you get with out purchasing any insurance. And you building the ship yourself only makes the problem worse, because the market never gets involved. No Sarcasm Included ____________________________ One Thead to rule them all - Boot.ini pre-patch thread
Fenderson Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2008.01.02 21:31:00 - [126] the isk faucet is insurance, not mining. if you removed insurance, there would be no way to turn minerals into new isk in the economy. therefore, mining is not an isk faucet but insurance is. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Oh dear, how about we all calm down a bit instead?
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.01.02 21:35:00 - [127] Originally by: Fenderson the isk faucet is insurance, not mining. if you removed insurance, there would be no way to turn minerals into new isk in the economy. therefore, mining is not an isk faucet but insurance is. Thank you. --- Join BH-DL Skills

CCP Prism X C C P	Posted - 2008.01.02 21:41:00 - [128] Originally by: cal nereus Originally by: Fenderson the isk faucet is insurance, not mining. if you removed insurance, there would be no way to turn minerals into new isk in the economy. therefore, mining is not an isk faucet but insurance is. Thank you. Thank you both. I need to learn how to say things in a single sentence rather than multiple paragraphs. But then people just say something random at me. Having to cover all your bases totally sucks... you don't know how good you paying forum warriors have it. ~ Prism X EvE Database Developer, Relocating your character to a cozy, giant secure container since 2006.

Ulstan	Posted - 2008.01.02 21:48:00 - [129] Edited by: Ulstan on 02/01/2008 21:53:17 Quote: And yes it is simply a mechanism to transfer isk from one player to another, it does not create isk, there are no faucets involved, no matter how you look at it. No, mining is a faucet. A faucet is any mechanism of creating wealth out of thin air: missioning is a faucet, because of bounties and module drops. Mining is a faucet. Any method of gaining wealth for yourself that does not involve another player losing that same amount of wealth is a faucet. If your "isk faucet" is too large, you get inflation. If your "stuff faucet" is too large, you get deflation. (Look at the prices for high end minerals after the release of the drone regions) Mining is a faucet because wealth is being added to the economy. If you can claim that selling those minerals generates sales tax, and thus mining is an isk sink then you can also claim that making a ship out of those modules and blowing it up generates new ISK, so it's an isk faucet. The reality is that mining in and of itself is neither an isk sink nor an isk faucet. Only what we do with the minerals after they are mined adds/subtracts ISK from the market. However, mining is still adding value to the economy. If it didn't, CCP could give us all 4 billion in megacyte in our hangars every morning after downtime without messing up the economy.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari SIVAKASI	Posted - 2008.01.02 21:49:00 - [130] Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 02/01/2008 21:50:16 The player base is really good and I wish I can be a good forum warrior one day CCP Prism X. Who do I find to get training from? --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Recruitment -KB-
Rufus MacMaranth Shadow Front Lost Children of Eve	Posted - 2008.01.02 21:51:00 - [131] ISK Faucet List: Insurance Payouts Bounties Mission Rewards NPC Buy Orders ISK Sink List: Insurance Cost (if any) Taxes Broker Fees NPC Manufacturing/Research Fees NPC Sell Orders Mineral Faucet: Mining Ore NPC Sold Modules NPC Dropped Modules Some Mission Rewards Mineral Sink: Player Manufactured Ship Destruction Player Manufactured Module Destruction Sigh. I have seen more crazy comments in this thread than on many others. Cheers, Ruf.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari SIVAKASI	Posted - 2008.01.02 22:00:00 - [132] Hold on, I am re-reading the latest Dev post. Please excuse my wrongness because it looks like I am putting words into a Dev's mouth. Are you hinting that CCP is planning to remove insurance soon because it is a faucet problem? --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Recruitment -KB-
Seira Black Companion Cube Industries	Posted - 2008.01.02 22:12:00 - [133] Edited by: Seira Black on 02/01/2008 22:13:31 Surely I'm not the only one who thought this after reading some of the earlier replies... "Who are you who are so wise in the ways of science?"
Kyrial Tidolfas	Posted - 2008.01.03 01:55:00 - [134] while some of you will say insurance is isk faucet and mining is not. that is not true. because you are looking at the problem with a tunnel vision. at the end of the line you see: ship dies, isk is paid, and say insurance is an isk faucet. but here is the problem. mining allows you to create infinite money. as long as you mine you can build ships and claim insurance. you do not have to sell minerals to make isk. and as such any activity that allows you to make isk from CONCORD/DED = isk faucet. now you might say that we are arguing over definition. that might be true. but if thats the case i have to ask you, is the current definition a satisfactory one? if you ever remove insurance from EvE you can say mining is not a faucet anymore. but that would be like saying if i remove disease from the world doctors no longer help peopple. while they might not anymore, but one cant disagree that removing disease, as they did, helped people. though you might say "removal of disease helped people. not doctors". but thats non-sensible. and the case of purse stealing is very different from this. making a purse does not always lead to stealing of purse. shooting people always lead to harm. the same with mining. you can say mining does not necessarily leads to ships. but you can always make ships from mining. and thats what matters. that there is an inevitability to your activity, that if EVER theres an isk shortage, you can make isk instead of obtaining it.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2008.01.03 01:55:00 - [135] I would like to point something else out. what if I build modules with my minerals I mined? and yes insurance is a faucet. no matter what you do it is. however mining can do lots of things besides build ships. pink supporter! Future art director at CCP! or texture guy, either or :P http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Drop Was in class with these folks :P
Kyrial Tidolfas	Posted - 2008.01.03 01:57:00 - [136] Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Vito Parabellum Mining is a indirect isk faucet. Argue definitions all night long but at the end of the (mining) day, there's new isk in the economy. YOU KNOW WHAT ! I think dev posts should automacticly head to the 1st page so PEOPLE WILL READ THEM !!!!! /headdesk another case of "dev said it, must be true" are you religious MotherMoon?? do you believe in god because some infallible holy men with their holy books said so??
Kyrial Tidolfas	Posted - 2008.01.03 02:00:00 - [137] Originally by: MotherMoon I would like to point something else out. what if I build modules with my minerals I mined? and yes insurance is a faucet. no matter what you do it is. however mining can do lots of things besides build ships. hey you know what i can a terrorist do with nuclear missiles they got from north korea, use it as paper weight. therefore nuclear weapons are not WMD, they are paper weight. just because you can do x with something doesnt mean that it loses all its attributes gained from beig able to do y.
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.03 02:10:00 - [138] Edited by: Hannobaal on 03/01/2008 02:10:06 Originally by: Kyrial Tidolfas Originally by: MotherMoon I would like to point something else out. what if I build modules with my minerals I mined? and yes insurance is a faucet. no matter what you do it is. however mining can do lots of things besides build ships. hey you know what i can a terrorist do with nuclear missiles they got from north korea, use it as paper weight. therefore nuclear weapons are not WMD, they are paper weight. just because you can do x with something doesnt mean that it loses all its attributes gained from beig able to do y. Quit while you're behind.
Sam Venture Caldari	Posted - 2008.01.03 02:17:00 - [139] I make ships, insure them, then self destruct to introduce massive amounts isk to the market........blowing up one shuttle at a time to screw with your prices
Kyrial Tidolfas	Posted - 2008.01.03 02:19:00 - [140] Originally by: Hannobaal Edited by: Hannobaal on 03/01/2008 02:10:06 Originally by: Kyrial Tidolfas Originally by: MotherMoon I would like to point something else out. what if I build modules with my minerals I mined? and yes insurance is a faucet. no matter what you do it is. however mining can do lots of things besides build ships. hey you know what i can a terrorist do with nuclear missiles they got from north korea, use it as paper weight. therefore nuclear weapons are not WMD, they are paper weight. just because you can do x with something doesnt mean that it loses all its attributes gained from beig able to do y. Quit while you're behind. claim social security while your ********.
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2008.01.03 02:26:00 - [141] Originally by: Hannobaal Edited by: Hannobaal on 03/01/2008 02:10:06 Originally by: Kyrial Tidolfas hey you know what i can a terrorist do with nuclear missiles they got from north korea, use it as paper weight. therefore nuclear weapons are not WMD, they are paper weight. just because you can do x with something doesnt mean that it loses all its attributes gained from beig able to do y. Quit while you're behind. Eh, you have consistently failed this thread. If you modified insurance to give you the option to gain minerals instead of isk, it wouldn't cease to be an isk faucet. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.03 02:45:00 - [142] Originally by: Frug Originally by: Hannobaal Edited by: Hannobaal on 03/01/2008 02:10:06 Originally by: Kyrial Tidolfas hey you know what i can a terrorist do with nuclear missiles they got from north korea, use it as paper weight. therefore nuclear weapons are not WMD, they are paper weight. just because you can do x with something doesnt mean that it loses all its attributes gained from beig able to do y. Quit while you're behind. Eh, you have consistently failed this thread. If you modified insurance to give you the option to gain minerals instead of isk, it wouldn't cease to be an isk faucet. It's been explained to you people by at least dozen different posters, including a dev, why what you're saying is horrendously wrong. I don't know if you're the bigger idiot or if I am for still arguing with what must be either a troll or a complete moron.
Jonis Sinmaker Caldari Advanced Response Division G Thanks Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.03 02:52:00 - [143] Originally by: CCP Prism X Edited by: CCP Prism X on 02/01/2008 19:40:43 First and foremost, and the only reason I'm bothering to post the same thing over again: CCP Prism X <> CCP Kieron! Secondly, you're wrong. You can redefine what you want but I am not accepting your redefinition without an argument as to why it is better than the current definition. However, in the spirit of camaraderie I shall explain to you why: Here used to be a huge part explaining how transitive relationships are not a fact of logical implications but rather an attribute certain universes/sets/whatEverYouWantToCallIt have.. it took up too much space and is lost on anyone who doesn't understand it already anyways. You're trying to tell me that because you can use minerals to build ships who can then be insured and lost thus injecting insurance payout money into the economy, which is definetly a faucet, then mining should be considered a faucet? It's wrong on many levels. I could tackle this from so many different directions but instead I'm just going to ruin your universal quantification by reminding you that not everything from minerals becomes insurable. Hence, mining cannot be a faucet in any universal sense. If you want to argue that A is a faucet because Z is and A -> B -> C -> D ... -> X -> Y -> Z -> A you're welcome to it. I'm not joining a redundant argument like that. The act of mining injects 0 ISK into the economy, period. The act of selling something removes ISK from the economy, unless an NPC corporation is the buyer which is not the case with minerals or ore, another period. Insurance is a faucet, and I never said anything else, but that doesn't make mining a faucet however bad you desire it to be.. unless you come up with a new definition of an ISK faucet which I've already explained I will not accept on the grounds that it makes the entire discussion moot. You can make up a new term like value sink/faucet but that is well beyond the realm of game mechanics as it depends on supply and demand for starters, and thats a social thing.. I gave up on arguing about the nature of society after a year of elementary philosophy. As last words: ISK Faucet = The act of injecting ISK into the economy. Much like the act of forgery (because we don't inject ISK to rebalance the economy like national banks have to do, people don't lose a dime here and there in EVE). ISK Sink = The act of removing ISK from the economy. Much like losing a dime into the gutter in the real world. I was going to read all of this knowing that you have made the op look like a total idiot, but damnit man that's a whole lot of words to go through after losing way to much of my life reading the stupidity the op wrote....I will go pod myself now...oh and I endorse whatever it is the dev said. -------- Semper Fi, Jonis Sinmaker
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2008.01.03 02:52:00 - [144] Originally by: Kyrial Tidolfas Originally by: MotherMoon I would like to point something else out. what if I build modules with my minerals I mined? and yes insurance is a faucet. no matter what you do it is. however mining can do lots of things besides build ships. hey you know what i can a terrorist do with nuclear missiles they got from north korea, use it as paper weight. therefore nuclear weapons are not WMD, they are paper weight. just because you can do x with something doesnt mean that it loses all its attributes gained from beig able to do y. now now that's more like saying ship building is an isk fauset. are you saying that by melting down raw minerals that may one day be made into a missle it is thus the same as making a missle every time a factory makes metal? minerals are not SHIPS. also what if the ship are not undocked? what if the ship doesn't die? what if the minerals are made into tech 2 modules? and no I don't go to church for the same reason I'm not listening to you. pink supporter! Future art director at CCP! or texture guy, either or :P http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Drop Was in class with these folks :P
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2008.01.03 02:54:00 - [145] Originally by: Hannobaal Originally by: Frug Originally by: Hannobaal Edited by: Hannobaal on 03/01/2008 02:10:06 Originally by: Kyrial Tidolfas hey you know what i can a terrorist do with nuclear missiles they got from north korea, use it as paper weight. therefore nuclear weapons are not WMD, they are paper weight. just because you can do x with something doesnt mean that it loses all its attributes gained from beig able to do y. Quit while you're behind. Eh, you have consistently failed this thread. If you modified insurance to give you the option to gain minerals instead of isk, it wouldn't cease to be an isk faucet. It's been explained to you people by at least dozen different posters, including a dev, why what you're saying is horrendously wrong. I don't know if you're the bigger idiot or if I am for still arguing with what must be either a troll or a complete moron. wait what? if insurance didn't put isk into the overall number of isk that people have it wouldn't be an isk faucet... it would be a mineral faucet. mabye you shouldn't of dropped out of high school. pink supporter! Future art director at CCP! or texture guy, either or :P http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Drop Was in class with these folks :P
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2008.01.03 02:55:00 - [146] Originally by: Sam Venture I make ships, insure them, then self destruct to introduce massive amounts isk to the market........blowing up one shuttle at a time to screw with your prices right which is why you could get a better argument saying that building ships is an sink faucet. pink supporter! Future art director at CCP! or texture guy, either or :P http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Drop Was in class with these folks :P
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.01.03 02:55:00 - [147] An isk faucet is something that creates isk in the economy that did not exist at all before. It has to be a direct creation (no indirect generation of isk). Insurance meets this requirement, but mining does not. Mining creates something that is worth isk, but it is not isk. It's like saying someone picks up a rock that's worth one dollar and saying that one dollar was added to the economy... it doesn't work like that. --- Join BH-DL Skills
Jonis Sinmaker Caldari Advanced Response Division G Thanks Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.03 02:57:00 - [148] Originally by: Hannobaal Originally by: Frug Originally by: Hannobaal Edited by: Hannobaal on 03/01/2008 02:10:06 Originally by: Kyrial Tidolfas hey you know what i can a terrorist do with nuclear missiles they got from north korea, use it as paper weight. therefore nuclear weapons are not WMD, they are paper weight. just because you can do x with something doesnt mean that it loses all its attributes gained from beig able to do y. Quit while you're behind. Eh, you have consistently failed this thread. If you modified insurance to give you the option to gain minerals instead of isk, it wouldn't cease to be an isk faucet. It's been explained to you people by at least dozen different posters, including a dev, why what you're saying is horrendously wrong. I don't know if you're the bigger idiot or if I am for still arguing with what must be either a troll or a complete moron. Hmmmm.....I agree....with a goon. damnit man! -------- Semper Fi, Jonis Sinmaker
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2008.01.03 02:57:00 - [149] Edited by: MotherMoon on 03/01/2008 02:58:20 Originally by: Jonis Sinmaker Originally by: Hannobaal Originally by: Frug Originally by: Hannobaal Edited by: Hannobaal on 03/01/2008 02:10:06 Originally by: Kyrial Tidolfas hey you know what i can a terrorist do with nuclear missiles they got from north korea, use it as paper weight. therefore nuclear weapons are not WMD, they are paper weight. just because you can do x with something doesnt mean that it loses all its attributes gained from beig able to do y. Quit while you're behind. Eh, you have consistently failed this thread. If you modified insurance to give you the option to gain minerals instead of isk, it wouldn't cease to be an isk faucet. It's been explained to you people by at least dozen different posters, including a dev, why what you're saying is horrendously wrong. I don't know if you're the bigger idiot or if I am for still arguing with what must be either a troll or a complete moron. Hmmmm.....I agree....with a goon. damnit man! yes it's that bad in here. pink supporter! Future art director at CCP! or texture guy, either or :P http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Drop Was in class with these folks :P
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2008.01.03 03:02:00 - [150] Originally by: Kyrial Tidolfas well you see if you mine you get mine-rals (ahahah get it :P) normally this would just create wealth cause theres more stuff for everyone. and this would also deflate the economy (more stuff = deflation). BUT NO NO NO because all items in EvE is invariably equated to an amount of isk = to the insurance payout if you refine/reprocess the stuff and make ships. and so for the low end market i.e. non t-2 ships non t-2+ mod theres no inflation/deflation. but im sure if you plot the average value of faction/officer mods you will se a gradual increase in price as people invariably make more money as time goes by. tl;dr price of minerals is fixed so anything thats worth about its reprocessed equivalents are fixed and only the hig-end market is a "free" market so its very much like WoW run-away inflation will soon make faction mods worth more and more ps. i am probably wrong pps. actually i think im right a question for you all if a person had a pen, and a spare pen. the person never uses the spare pen until it dies off from old age. was the spare pen "useful". end communication wait the op part makes sense, you seem to state that building ships and then those ships paying out insurance puts isk into the community. however somehow you started to argue that this is because people mine. no this is beucause people build ships. so your right slowly the tech 1 market is causing inflation. however you forget people love to stockpile money and won't ever spend in and also that players quit. my point is, I don't feel like reading the thread how did it go from tech one ship market is cuasing lots of isk to go into the game to mining is an isk faucet? pink supporter! Future art director at CCP! or texture guy, either or :P http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Drop Was in class with these folks :P

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