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actually mining IS AN ISK FAUCET!!!

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Dimagus	Posted - 2008.01.01 05:46:00 - [31] Originally by: Erel Kighas Originally by: Dimagus Material Faucet = Adds new materials to the game (Mining) Material Sink = Removes existing materials from the game (Destroying Ships) ISK Faucet = Adds new ISK to the game (Bounties) ISK Sink = Removes existing ISK from the game (Tax) Econoneutral = Neither adds nor removes material/ISK from the game. (Trading, Refining) so does a carrier that smartbomb-camps a gate cause inflation or deflation? The materials that the ship was made of was lost, the implants the pilot had were lost (if podded), but since no actual ISK is lost yet insurance can generate ISK, it actually inflates the economy.
Erel Kighas	Posted - 2008.01.01 05:48:00 - [32] so if we did away with insurance and tax what would happen? --
Dimagus	Posted - 2008.01.01 05:50:00 - [33] Doing away with tax would be VERY bad, there would be no effective way to remove ISK from the game, so the total amount would increase exponentially. Removing insurance is a tricky proposition, since even though it inflates the economy, losing an expensive ship (in materials) still balances out.
Nyphur Pillowsoft Total Comfort	Posted - 2008.01.01 05:52:00 - [34] Originally by: Dimagus The materials that the ship was made of was lost, the implants the pilot had were lost (if podded), but since no actual ISK is lost yet insurance can generate ISK, it actually inflates the economy. Try not to equate adding isk to the game with inflating the economy. Inflation is not neccecarily directly related to the amount of isk in the economy versus the amount of purchasables. For example, Tech 1 ships will never drop to 70% of the insurance payout price regardless of the amount of isk in the game as the insurance system provides a floor for the price by allowing infinite conversion of ships into 70% platinum insurance payout. This works by insuring a ship with platinum insurance (costs 30% of payout value) and self-destructing it. Inflation and deflation in eve are arguments that can get very complicated and since there are isk faucets and sinks in the game that draw from infinite pools of isk, real life economics has a hard time fitting in exactly. I personally try not to use the word inflation or deflation with eve any more. Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened.
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.01 05:54:00 - [35] Originally by: Erel Kighas Originally by: Dimagus Material Faucet = Adds new materials to the game (Mining) Material Sink = Removes existing materials from the game (Destroying Ships) ISK Faucet = Adds new ISK to the game (Bounties) ISK Sink = Removes existing ISK from the game (Tax) Econoneutral = Neither adds nor removes material/ISK from the game. (Trading, Refining) so does a carrier that smartbomb-camps a gate cause inflation or deflation? Depends entirely on the things it blows up, but I would say it probably destroys more materials than it causes ISK to come into the game in the form of insurance payouts. Thus it helps inflation along.
Dimagus	Posted - 2008.01.01 06:00:00 - [36] I'll have to agree, it's very difficult to equate a virtual economy to a real life one. When looking at game and the virtual assets you have to accept that there always has to be an increase in both money and material, otherwise there wouldn't be enough in the game to accommodate new players or replace losses. The goal to a proper economy is to limit it to a linear inflation, where assets and wealth increase to correlate with the game's age and the number of players. EVE handles it fairly well with a few quirky market points, but you have to remember that 99% of all buying/selling, constructing/refining is simply converting material/wealth back and forth and not adding or removing anything. What goes in, has to be a restricted to a set level according to what comes out.
Princess PooPoo	Posted - 2008.01.01 06:02:00 - [37] real world economics is not entirely applicable to eve's
Avekio Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.01.01 06:04:00 - [38] I'm in your belt stealing your iskies.
Nova Fox	Posted - 2008.01.01 07:03:00 - [39] I think the they are both drunk
ThisAlt IsUseless	Posted - 2008.01.01 07:07:00 - [40] bug: mining is an isk faucet how to reproduce: 1. mine all the mineral needed to build a ship 2. build the ship 3. insure the ship to the max 4. kill the ship 5. profit!!!!
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.01.01 07:18:00 - [41] Mining is not an isk faucet until you get 3 hulks and a max skill rigged cargo II indy hauling it for you. Granted the isk I'm getting is not out of thin air like mission runners produce but ffs its close enough for me. Mine Refine Haul Sell Profit (I left out the ??? step because I know what I'm doing)
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.01 09:12:00 - [42] Originally by: Zeba Mining is not an isk faucet until you get 3 hulks and a max skill rigged cargo II indy hauling it for you. Granted the isk I'm getting is not out of thin air like mission runners produce but ffs its close enough for me. In other words, no it's an ISK faucet.
Boomershoot Caldari Insurgent New Eden Tribe Deus Ex.	Posted - 2008.01.01 09:35:00 - [43] from npc, you get materials and isk, from mining roids you get materials so we have materials and isk introduced in game tax -> isk sink pvp -> material sink insurance -> isk producer (lol) so, it all balance perfectly no insurance -> no isk producer -> too much mineral sink (so does isk) -> veld at 12 isk p/u have a nice day
Jonny JoJo Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.01.01 09:41:00 - [44] Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 01/01/2008 09:42:07 Another one of these threads? Look, here is the facts. Just read it and accept. Mining = Time Sink Tax = Isk Sink Insurance = Isk Faucet Sure anything indirectly be a isk sink or faucet. For example, someone buys minerals and makes modules that get blown up has not added anything to the economy, but indirectly the modules that are made have tax/factory fee etc etc. But the same minerals could indirectly be a isk faucet if someone takes a Usless Amarr ship and self destructs in disgust due to insurance. Someone who wears red socks while mining could indirectly say that his red socks is a isk sink/faucet, as he only mines with red socks on. However, people in eve refere the final action as cause, since indirectly, this post somehow nerfs Amarr. Refresh to see next Real Life CCP sig(16 total)
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2008.01.01 10:40:00 - [45] Insurance can turn it into an indirect faucet. Pwnt. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Boomershoot Caldari Insurgent New Eden Tribe Deus Ex.	Posted - 2008.01.01 10:45:00 - [46] insurance would be ok if high-end mineral price was higher also, cake for you
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.01 10:50:00 - [47] Originally by: Frug Insurance can turn it into an indirect faucet. Pwnt. Which means that insurance on ships creates ISK, not mining.
DroneBay Diva The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.01.01 10:52:00 - [48] Originally by: Caligulus The real problem is over crowding. Nope. The REAL problem is that devs are posting in this thread rather than in the ones where people can't log in, are threatening to quit of bugs and other stupid sh*t like that. _____________________________________________________________________________
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.01.01 11:09:00 - [49] Posting in a...... thread. (I can't believe this one even went to page two)
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2008.01.01 13:18:00 - [50] Originally by: Hannobaal Originally by: Frug Insurance can turn it into an indirect faucet. Pwnt. Which means that insurance on ships creates ISK, not mining. You're positively brilliant. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
HippoKing Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.01 13:21:00 - [51] Originally by: CCP Prism X New party, new post! w00t! Right-o. Normally I'd show you nay-sayers a thing or two but I'm to happy-go-lucky right now to dig into the forum warriorness. Mining does not introduce newly pressed ISK. Selling removes ISK due to tax. True. Mining being a faucet due to minerals being used to produce other things... ...dude check yourself. You're not understanding the faucet / sink concept. Sorry. By your logic, mining is a faucet because mining->construction->insurance = faucet. It's just as logical as saying mining->sale = sink. In truth, the ISK faucets and sinks in this case are sales tax and insurance, not mining itself. Mining itself hasn't introduced or destroyed ISK since the removal of NPC mineral buy orders.
Will Hunter GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.01 13:25:00 - [52] Originally by: CCP Prism X No, mining is an ISK sink because it goes like so: You mine X many minerals, no new ISK is introduced into the economy. You sell Y many minerals to player A, he pays with ISK he got from where ever, yet no new ISK is introduced into the system through the act of mining. Player A pays Z much tax, which goes to NPC corporations who don't affect the economy... which means that Z much ISK disappears from the economy due to sales tax. --> When you mine minerals nothing happens to the economy. When you sell minerals you just get ISKies from a player who earned them a different way. When that happens sales tax is payed and that ISK disappears from the economny. Hence, mining is an ISK sink. It's fun to post this with a Dev account for a change. It's not so much fun to realize this party is boring enough for me to be posting here. Well, off to the next one then. Happy new years peeps and pipettes then. Durr! :cripes:
Jenny Spitfire Caldari SIVAKASI	Posted - 2008.01.01 13:51:00 - [53] Actually, why not do it the old fashion way. Take a pen and draw a line vertically and split the paper into two. One side, mining is sink and the other side, mining is faucet. Then put all your reasons why mining is sink or faucet and see which side wins and close this debate. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Recruitment -KB-
Kharadran Sullath Caldari Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2008.01.01 14:10:00 - [54] IBDrE? ------ Originally by: Graveyard Tan I call bull** and troll. If you are deaf**, how are you even able to read this or type replies?
Ammon Skycloud Caldari Matari Research Foundation Empire Research	Posted - 2008.01.01 15:06:00 - [55] And yet another weekend economist thread rears it's ugly head . Since I'm not good at drawing pretty pictures lets try and explain it in a simple way. Step 1: Mine Minerals - Since Good miners use mining crystals this is an *isk sink* Step 2: Sell Minerals - Since ISK Moves from player A to Player B there is no new isk thus no isk Faucet, but there is tax so *isk sink* Step 3: Manufacture Ship - This involves material waste, lab rental etc so again *isk sink* Step 4: Sell Ship - Just like when selling minerals, no new isk enters the game but again there is tax etc. *isk sink* Step 5: Ensure Ship - *isk sink* (Don't start arguing, You've paid to ensure it it hasn't paid out yet) Step 6: Autopilot Through Low Sec - You get killed - your ship is gone all that isk wasted - *isk sink* Step 7: Recieve Insurance Payout - Insurance Payout is the mineral Value of your ship, it does not include the profit margin that the ship builder added onto the cost, and on top of that you need to deduct the price of insuring the ship in the first place - Some ISK is replaced some is lost the net effect on your wallet - *isk sink. the effect of insurance is not that of an isk faucet, what it does do is reduce the isk sink effect of losing your ship thus ensuring that there is less deflation*, with the amount of ships killed in a day the deflationary effect without insurance would be very detrimental to the game. If that's not clear enough...
Kelron Queldine Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2008.01.01 15:10:00 - [56] Quick version: If no one has money to buy minerals, minerals are worth nothing. Mining creates no ISK. --------------------------- Vanilla Crazy Cake!
Franga NQX Innovations	Posted - 2008.01.01 15:38:00 - [57] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Actually, why not do it the old fashion way. Take a pen and draw a line vertically and split the paper into two. One side, mining is sink and the other side, mining is faucet. Then put all your reasons why mining is sink or faucet and see which side wins and close this debate. Brilliant. Originally by: Rachel Vend ... with 100% reliability in most cases ... General Aesthetics Changes Thread
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2008.01.01 16:03:00 - [58] So, like, all that's being debated is where to put the little red label that says "ISK FAUCET" and not anything about the actual mechanics? Who cares? - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Yohanes Flame Point-Zero SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.01 16:31:00 - [59] DEV logic enabled Mining is not an isk faucet because: 1. I mine and I pay CCP 15 dollars a month to mine and CCP=NPC corp and they get real money which they use to buy GTC's and sell on the forums for iskies which they sit on and get rich with and therefore mining is a isk sink. 2. no comment we got DEV pwne... well we got something not sure what we got but a DEV posted damn it and that makes it special right...right. 2a. Drunk Dev arguing a point he made up ...... priceless. ____________________________ One Thead to rule them all - Boot.ini pre-patch thread
Aram Thracius Amarr Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.01.01 16:49:00 - [60] ROFL @ op thanks man, post made my evening Originally by: Ed Kraka im so awesome, i wish i was me in real life!

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