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TheMightyBoosh17	Posted - 2008.01.03 13:56:00 - [1] Alright, so this ship doesn't get any respect. For starters it looks terrible and for a ship that has a bonus to target painters it seems to want you to use autocannons on it(ROF bonus) as you can't fit even 3 650's without having a rubbish tank. This ship is meant to be the E-war cruiser of the Minmatar so then why does it have only 4 mids and 5 highs, surely it should be the other way around. I think to fix this ship several things could be done. Firstly the dual weapon layout should be scrapped for 4 turrets or launchers (launchers IMO as this would fit in with the target painting bonus)With the relevant ROF bonus. Secondly I think the remaining hi slot should be moved to a med slot to be more E-warry? Thirdly the drone bay should be increased to at least 50m3 so it can at least have a full set of mediums. Overall the ship would look something like this Slots Hi - 4 Med - 5 Low - 3 Drone bay 50m3/75m3 Bonuses 5% missile launcher ROF & 7.5% TP effectiveness per level. Also a little bit more cpu. I think if the ship was like this then Minnie pilots would have a reason to train for missiles and drones before reaching the Typhoon. Plus it is also very different from the stabber and Rupture. Thanks for reading and please comment on whether you like it or not, it can't be any worse than what the ship is now can it?
Gawain Hill	Posted - 2008.01.03 14:10:00 - [2] no to the drone bay increase since it'd give it the same drone bay size as an arbitrator (a drone cruiser) granted it'd be unbonused drones but then it gets a bonus to guns where the arbitrator gets it to drones. it's just like asking for twice the turret and missile hardpoints and the cpu and grig to fit them on the arbitrator
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2008.01.03 14:24:00 - [3] The bellicose is fine as it is for everything except its power grid, missiles + target painters is not that great except for battleship sized missiles/torpedos. Now what does benefit greatly from a target painter is artillery with its poor tracking. Basically my suggestion is to boost the bellicoses powergrid so that it can fit a full rack of 650mm II's (and or 720mm T1), heavy missiles, plus a medium armor repairer, 800mm plate and perhaps a mwd But as a minimum an afterburner. Yes all it needs is grid and it will shine.
TheMightyBoosh	Posted - 2008.01.03 14:46:00 - [4] Originally by: Gawain Hill no to the drone bay increase since it'd give it the same drone bay size as an arbitrator (a drone cruiser) granted it'd be unbonused drones but then it gets a bonus to guns where the arbitrator gets it to drones. I must be missing something then because in game the arbis drone bay is listed as 150m3. I would have thought 50m3 wouldn't be too much too ask though.
Raxxius Maelstrom	Posted - 2008.01.03 14:59:00 - [5] Originally by: TheMightyBoosh Originally by: Gawain Hill no to the drone bay increase since it'd give it the same drone bay size as an arbitrator (a drone cruiser) granted it'd be unbonused drones but then it gets a bonus to guns where the arbitrator gets it to drones. I must be missing something then because in game the arbis drone bay is listed as 150m3. I would have thought 50m3 wouldn't be too much too ask though. He's referring to the bandwidth, if the Beli had a 50/50 it could field the same weight in drones as the Arbi, however it would have no flexibility in drones (couldn't carry both ECM and combat drones at the same time). I don't personally see the problem with that though tbh...
Dromidas Shadowmoon Minmatar Storm Legion	Posted - 2008.01.03 15:15:00 - [6] Didn't anyone tell you? We don't speak about the Bel.. er.. just don't speak about it. We originally designed it to give to the amarr as a trojan horse and never actually intended it to be used for anything else :P _______________________________________________ Minmatar will always go faster than you, get over it.
Stakhanov Metafarmers	Posted - 2008.01.03 15:40:00 - [7] All minmatar "ewar" ships (vigil bellicose hyena huginn rapier) could use a boost to their TP bonus , I don't see how 10% per level would be overpowering. They're fast enough to speedtank , but TPs need to be more effective to compete in usefulness with other mid slot mods (LSE , damps , injector)
Arvald Caldari House of Tempers Long Distance Serial Killlers	Posted - 2008.01.03 16:16:00 - [8] 3 220 mm ac's 2 light and 3 medium ecm drones 10mn mwd t2 disrupt and web 2t overdrive/nano.mar/whatever you want t2 sensor booster 2 gyrostabs (i usually have to do named ones because of cpu unless i change some of the other t2 monds with named) and 2 HAM launchers damn good in small gangs as a heavy tackler and e-war support and can solo ok if you know what your doing and pick your targets, dps isnt that good and tank is virtually nonexistent but if they cant even lock you then a tank isnt really important --------------------------- Originally by: Last Wolf I prefer smartass, but I like some variety now and then.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2008.01.03 16:27:00 - [9] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 03/01/2008 16:28:44 Originally by: Stakhanov All minmatar "ewar" ships (vigil bellicose hyena huginn rapier) could use a boost to their TP bonus , I don't see how 10% per level would be overpowering. They're fast enough to speedtank , but TPs need to be more effective to compete in usefulness with other mid slot mods (LSE , damps , injector) Having a 10%/level bonus to a module called PWNAGE is obviously overpowered! Personally, I'd like more missiles (like, 4 missile slots) with a bonus of some sort and more grid on the Bellicose, but, yeah, TPs need some love as well. I'd like it if I could fit something like 4 HAMs on the thing, I'm beggining to love HAM launchers in general. Rifters!
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.03 16:48:00 - [10] All the Bellicose needs is enough powergrid to fit a proper pvp fit with mwd and artillery. If it gets that, it will be able to perform its proper role as a frigate killer.
TheMightyBoosh17	Posted - 2008.01.03 17:13:00 - [11] Originally by: Stakhanov Personally, I'd like more missiles (like, 4 missile slots) with a bonus of some sort and more grid on the Bellicose, but, yeah, TPs need some love as well. I'd like it if I could fit something like 4 HAMs on the thing, I'm beggining to love HAM launchers in general. Ya, i'd love HAMs with maybe a missile velocity bonus.
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.03 17:33:00 - [12] Originally by: TheMightyBoosh17 Originally by: Stakhanov Personally, I'd like more missiles (like, 4 missile slots) with a bonus of some sort and more grid on the Bellicose, but, yeah, TPs need some love as well. I'd like it if I could fit something like 4 HAMs on the thing, I'm beggining to love HAM launchers in general. Ya, i'd love HAMs with maybe a missile velocity bonus. That's like a light Cerberus, except unlike the Cerberus it would actually be fast. I sense the potential for a lot of balance problems there. Speed and mssiles don't mix too well from a game balance standpoint.
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2008.01.03 18:21:00 - [13] Originally by: Hannobaal Originally by: TheMightyBoosh17 Originally by: Stakhanov Personally, I'd like more missiles (like, 4 missile slots) with a bonus of some sort and more grid on the Bellicose, but, yeah, TPs need some love as well. I'd like it if I could fit something like 4 HAMs on the thing, I'm beggining to love HAM launchers in general. Ya, i'd love HAMs with maybe a missile velocity bonus. That's like a light Cerberus, except unlike the Cerberus it would actually be fast. I sense the potential for a lot of balance problems there. Speed and mssiles don't mix too well from a game balance standpoint. Yes, There is a reason that CCP made the Caldari slow and cumbersome, Basically if you have missiles as a primary weapon then you shouldn't be fast. As most people like how the bellicose is not slow then best to leave its primary weapon as a turret. Now remember guys, Artilleries gain the greatest advantage other than torpedos when it comes to target painters, It increases the chance to hit and so does wonders for us. So lets just get more grid and throw on 720mm's on them. What would be nice also is to have a 4th turret slot.
Wahjoo Minmatar Pandemic Influenza Infinite Innovation	Posted - 2008.01.03 20:56:00 - [14] Apart from the nice size drone bay, I really have nothing good to say about a Belicose. I was flabergasted when I found out that it had even less range then a Thrasher To make matters worse, it has terrible shields and you can't really upgrade it to anything really useful. And to top it all off, it has next to no cargo capacity. In all honesty, I was somewhat glad when mine got blown up. The only redeeming value I see for it is to fit a few salvagers and a tractor beam and gang up and follow someone who will be killing everyone for you to salvage. "We were once so close to heaven; Peter came out and gave us medals, declaring us the nicest of the damned."
VB Sarge The Bastards	Posted - 2008.01.03 22:04:00 - [15] I'm going to have to disagree with throwing more missiles on minmatar ships, that causes some more balance issues than I think anyone wants to mess with, plus, it doesn't follow the motif of the minmatar. The speed is good, and it makes a fantastic support ship for BS's. Sit back at max range and let loose with your 650's and assault launchers, activate your tracking disruptors and target painters (2 should work wonders) and fit the rest for speed. I think with that set up though you do hit some powergrid issues, which would be nice to get bumped up just a little bit to be able to fit at least some 650 II's on it. it's the mix weapon system cruiser for the minmatar, and every class has one. It shines as a frig killer, and should be able to instapop anything other than a T2 heavy drone. It's not meant as an assault platform to do any kind of damage to the main enemy, but it would tear through frigs and inty's pretty well, and let BS's nuke everything below a BC. A tad more grid and you have a winning set up here. www.the-bastards.com
Love Denied Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.01.08 12:10:00 - [16] bellicose is overrated halfarsed more or less useless. and the ship sucks aswell Caldari Loyalist *people die when love is denied*
General Coochie The Bastards	Posted - 2008.01.08 13:13:00 - [17] I think it should get boosted, but I dont agree on the drone bay. It should not have more drones then gallente ewar cruiser, (40m3), and certainly not as much as the gallente dps cruiser.
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2008.01.08 13:27:00 - [18] The setup i used pre-damp nerf: 2* dual 180mm ac II (barrage) 3* heavy missile launcher II (faction therm missiles) 1* 10mn mwd II 1* warp dis II 2* low frequency damp 1* overdrive II 2* nanofiber II 4* hammerhead II Speed: 3 km/s Dps: 280 dps Stabber for frigkilling/catching Rupture for heavy duty killing Bellicose for E-war + versitality All of them kicked AF ass, so works in my book. These days i would fit a bellicose like this: 2* dual 180mm AC II (faction emp) 3* Assault launcher II (faction light therm) 1* Y-t8 mwd 1* warp dis II 2* large shieldextend II 2* nanofiber II 1* overdrive II 4* hammerhead II Speed: 2.8 km/s dps: 258 They are all working setups and you can downgrade any part you like, except for the shieldextenders. _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Flurren	Posted - 2008.01.08 19:27:00 - [19] Edited by: Flurren on 08/01/2008 19:32:06 Originally by: TheMightyBoosh17 Alright, so this ship doesn't get any respect. For starters it looks terrible and for a ship that has a bonus to target painters it seems to want you to use autocannons on it(ROF bonus) as you can't fit even 3 650's without having a rubbish tank. This ship is meant to be the E-war cruiser of the Minmatar so then why does it have only 4 mids and 5 highs, surely it should be the other way around. I think to fix this ship several things could be done. Firstly the dual weapon layout should be scrapped for 4 turrets or launchers (launchers IMO as this would fit in with the target painting bonus)With the relevant ROF bonus. Secondly I think the remaining hi slot should be moved to a med slot to be more E-warry? Thirdly the drone bay should be increased to at least 50m3 so it can at least have a full set of mediums. Overall the ship would look something like this Slots Hi - 4 Med - 5 Low - 3 Drone bay 50m3/75m3 Bonuses 5% missile launcher ROF & 7.5% TP effectiveness per level. Also a little bit more cpu. I think if the ship was like this then Minnie pilots would have a reason to train for missiles and drones before reaching the Typhoon. Plus it is also very different from the stabber and Rupture. Thanks for reading and please comment on whether you like it or not, it can't be any worse than what the ship is now can it? This would be fine with 4 high slots but only 3 launchers, 4 main weapon system slots on an EW ship is too much. Also it should only have 50m3 drone bay. EDIT: Cyclone should be changed from 5 turrets 3 launchers to 5 launchers 3 turrets too so we have a proper line of ships up to the typhoon. Just my feeling though.
Tefkros The Dead Pod Society	Posted - 2008.01.11 08:07:00 - [20] The Bellicose is an awesome ship actually. Five words to help you: Buffer, Perma-mwd, Point, Missiles, Drones Kicks the crap out of any Stabber, and any slow ship without a heavy neut is not gonna be able to touch it.
Norwood Franskly Minmatar Fleet of the Damned United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.11 11:50:00 - [21] Notice all the setups people have posted don't use its target painter bonus, may as well be flying a stabber, if your not going to make use of the bonus wtf is the point of having it. If the drone bay on the belicose gets upped then the cyclone and Hurricane should to, no point have a cruiser with a bigger drone bay then a battlecruiser...
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2008.01.11 12:07:00 - [22] Edited by: madaluap on 11/01/2008 12:16:10 Originally by: Norwood Franskly Notice all the setups people have posted don't use its target painter bonus, may as well be flying a stabber, if your not going to make use of the bonus wtf is the point of having it. If the drone bay on the belicose gets upped then the cyclone and Hurricane should to, no point have a cruiser with a bigger drone bay then a battlecruiser... You are so wrong. Look @ all the weaponsystems the bellicose uses compared to the stabber. Look how heavy missiles and medium drones are used. So cause a cruiser has more dronebay than a bc, the bc should have more dronebay...O K Notice how most people dont use the bonus to hybrid damage on a dominix. Why? Cause people could just get a mega and do exactly the same thing, better. Instead the domi uses neuts/nosfers, cause thats more efficient. Damn, im sure i heard someone comparing the bellicose with the stabber in a similar way. Just like the curse prefered to use damps pre-nerf. Does that mean the tracking disrupting bonus was total ** @ the time? No, damps were just so much better. Now a days, damps are *. Painter are cool if used in combination with (lets say) missile ships and for guns that have low tracking. I dont field them cause i rather have a web and point on the target, but in a gang its better to have a point + give the gang 50% more chance to damage the target. Missileboats suddenly have enough signature on the target, so that even heavies hit a frig hard or torps hit cruisers hard. Let the tacklers take care of the webbing... Youre entire logic is flawed. You cannot just* compare one aspect and say: this ship needs this, this and this. Doesnt work. /edit: More grid for the bellicose and lets not forget the omen would be superb though! _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2008.01.11 13:59:00 - [23] Originally by: madaluap Edited by: madaluap on 11/01/2008 12:16:10 Originally by: Norwood Franskly Notice all the setups people have posted don't use its target painter bonus, may as well be flying a stabber, if your not going to make use of the bonus wtf is the point of having it. If the drone bay on the belicose gets upped then the cyclone and Hurricane should to, no point have a cruiser with a bigger drone bay then a battlecruiser... You are so wrong. Look @ all the weaponsystems the bellicose uses compared to the stabber. Look how heavy missiles and medium drones are used. So cause a cruiser has more dronebay than a bc, the bc should have more dronebay...O K Notice how most people dont use the bonus to hybrid damage on a dominix. Why? Cause people could just get a mega and do exactly the same thing, better. Instead the domi uses neuts/nosfers, cause thats more efficient. Damn, im sure i heard someone comparing the bellicose with the stabber in a similar way. Just like the curse prefered to use damps pre-nerf. Does that mean the tracking disrupting bonus was total ** @ the time? No, damps were just so much better. Now a days, damps are *. Painter are cool if used in combination with (lets say) missile ships and for guns that have low tracking. I dont field them cause i rather have a web and point on the target, but in a gang its better to have a point + give the gang 50% more chance to damage the target. Missileboats suddenly have enough signature on the target, so that even heavies hit a frig hard or torps hit cruisers hard. Let the tacklers take care of the webbing... Youre entire logic is flawed. You cannot just* compare one aspect and say: this ship needs this, this and this. Doesnt work. /edit: More grid for the bellicose and lets not forget the omen would be superb though! Ok lets just assume that if a ship has a bonus to a specific module than there should be a viable vanilla setup that takes advantage of that, the bellicose should be able to fit atrillery, painters and an armor tank without difficulty imho. The bellicose probably has a too large a drone bay as it is so, no to the increase. Speed + missiles = bad, so no to changing its projectile turret bonus to a missile bonus. Side note/ yes please to an increase also of the omens pg.
Mannakin Caldari Mercurialis Inc. Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.01.11 14:43:00 - [24] I have 1 use for a Bellicose... Manufacturing Hugnins and Rapiers (Kinda funny really as I have a Hugnin BPC that I invented, but the Bellicose is one of cruiser BPO I don't have. So I can't build the Hugnin till I go back to empire and buy a BPO for an otherwise fairly rubbish ship!)
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2008.01.11 21:49:00 - [25] Originally by: Mannakin I have 1 use for a Bellicose... Manufacturing Hugnins and Rapiers (Kinda funny really as I have a Hugnin BPC that I invented, but the Bellicose is one of cruiser BPO I don't have. So I can't build the Hugnin till I go back to empire and buy a BPO for an otherwise fairly rubbish ship!) Let me know if you want some bpc's ;) I have a bellicose bpo at me49, working on me100 for **** and giggles.
Miss Miata	Posted - 2008.01.11 22:52:00 - [26] i loved the bellicose for level 2`s and them for level 3`s. i must admit the l3`s consisted of running like hell from the rats at full tilt (kiting) letting the artis or ac`s and missiles kill each rat that that i slowed to let in range 1 at a time. to say it took a while is a understatement
Murath Kalth Minmatar Ripping Yarns Inc	Posted - 2008.01.12 11:35:00 - [27] Bellicose is Underated. I'ts earned me a small Fortune Popping T2 fitted Assault frigs. Ditch the TP bonus and give it a bonus to the Missiles and I'd be a Happy Bunny. Sometimes Pleasure is a sin But to Sin is Always a Pleasure
Karyuudo Tydraad Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services The Acquisition	Posted - 2008.01.12 11:43:00 - [28] It's not the ship. It's target painters as an EW system. Imagine if it remained in its current layout, but had the web range bonus of the EAS instead. It'd be amazing.
TheMightyBoosh	Posted - 2008.01.12 21:20:00 - [29] No one else think the slots should be changed to 4 hi and 5 med?
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2008.01.12 21:39:00 - [30] Originally by: TheMightyBoosh No one else think the slots should be changed to 4 hi and 5 med? You know, I rather liked the idea about the bellicose been the only ewar cruiser that did effective dps, if anything I would like a 4th turret slot and the much needed powergrid boost so I could target paint the Victim and shoot it with 4x 650mm II's at a nice range.

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