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Kissapasi
Kissapasi Corporation
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Posted - 2008.01.08 15:44:00 -
[1]
I have been doing some very secret calculations today.
First, look at the setups below:
Moros & Thanatos
The aim of those setups were to create ship that does dps and has two capital remote reppers while being fairly cap stable. Aka the role of a carrier.
To my surprise, Thanatos was completely outclassed in nearly every field by its counterpart dread, Moros.
What is the point of getting Thanatos when you can get ship that has nearly double its dps, tank and cap recharge while still running two capital remotes? You can make moros completely immune to e-war also! Moros can be run in non-sieged mode when there is no incoming dps or ewar, but when the worst happens, it can be made an super tank!
As conclusion, we can clearly see why Thanatos is really obsolate. Moros can do its role better with carrier setup while still being able to transform to pos/capital -killer with another fit!
Discuss.
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madaluap
Gallente
Mercenary Forces
Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2008.01.08 15:51:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Kissapasi
I have been doing some very secret calculations today.
First, look at the setups below:
Moros & Thanatos
The aim of those setups were to create ship that does dps and has two capital remote reppers while being fairly cap stable. Aka the role of a carrier.
To my surprise, Thanatos was completely outclassed in nearly every field by its counterpart dread, Moros.
What is the point of getting Thanatos when you can get ship that has nearly double its dps, tank and cap recharge while still running two capital remotes? You can make moros completely immune to e-war also! Moros can be run in non-sieged mode when there is no incoming dps or ewar, but when the worst happens, it can be made an super tank!
As conclusion, we can clearly see why Thanatos is really obsolate. Moros can do its role better with carrier setup while still being able to transform to pos/capital -killer with another fit!
Discuss.
And now check the range on the moros remote reps...How far do you think ships sit away from each other in fights where you would field capitals?
_________________________________________________
Breetime
A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA |
wierchas noobhunter
Cosmic Fusion
When Fat Kids Attack
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Posted - 2008.01.08 15:52:00 -
[3]
first of u should not use all skills at lvl 5
second meh get a clue
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Elias Modron
Lucretia Seven
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Posted - 2008.01.08 15:53:00 -
[4]
Maybe also the fact that the Thanatos can delegate out fighters, as well as having multiple waves of pretty much every drone?
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Jims Mistress
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Posted - 2008.01.08 15:53:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Jims Mistress on 08/01/2008 15:53:46
Dont you need 4 DCUs(5 with skill at lvl5) to maximise damage? But I agree Moros does seem a bit overpowered..
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Wardeneo 2
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Posted - 2008.01.08 15:54:00 -
[6]
dont u mean which is the best cap ship, moros is a dred, thanatos is carrier!
wardeneo
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Gneeznow
Minmatar
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.01.08 15:54:00 -
[7]
oh man ......
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Kissapasi
Kissapasi Corporation
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Posted - 2008.01.08 15:58:00 -
[8]
Originally by: wierchas noobhunter
first of u should not use all skills at lvl 5
second meh get a clue
Please explain instead of "get a clue".
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Hikaru Sulu
Caldari
Black Legion Industries
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Posted - 2008.01.08 16:05:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Kissapasi
I have been doing some very secret calculations today.
First, look at the setups below:
Moros & Thanatos
The aim of those setups were to create ship that does dps and has two capital remote reppers while being fairly cap stable. Aka the role of a carrier.
To my surprise, Thanatos was completely outclassed in nearly every field by its counterpart dread, Moros.
What is the point of getting Thanatos when you can get ship that has nearly double its dps, tank and cap recharge while still running two capital remotes? You can make moros completely immune to e-war also! Moros can be run in non-sieged mode when there is no incoming dps or ewar, but when the worst happens, it can be made an super tank!
As conclusion, we can clearly see why Thanatos is really obsolate. Moros can do its role better with carrier setup while still being able to transform to pos/capital -killer with another fit!
Discuss.
Um... ok. At the risk of hitting myself in the face repeatedly, I'll attempt to explain. The Moros is a dread, and has nowhere near the drone space of a Carrier. It cannot use fighters. It gets no range bonus to logistics mods. In siege mode it cannot recieve friendly remote effects. A dreads purpose is to attack installations and other cap ships with its capital guns. The Thanatos is a carrier, it is designed to deploy fighters and delegate them, and provide support to a fleet through the use of logistics mods which it gets a bonus to, and through the use of the triage module, which is lik seige mode, but for carriers and does not boost offnsiv capabilities, only support capabilities. In short they are two totally different ships and one cannot substitute the other.
-Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines. |
Grimpak
Gallente
Trinity Nova
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Posted - 2008.01.08 16:17:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Grimpak on 08/01/2008 16:17:43
Originally by: Kissapasi
Originally by: wierchas noobhunter
first of u should not use all skills at lvl 5
second meh get a clue
Please explain instead of "get a clue".
I was going to type a long and coherent post, but that would be pretty much feeding a troll.
bottom line is, you don't use "all skills at 5" to argue with ship balance.
also why are you comparing a CARRIER, wich is first and foremost a fire support/logistic platform, to a DREADNAUGHT, wich is a siege platform? a VERY bad setup siege platform btw.
nevermind oranges here, you're comparing eggs with apples?
oh and deactivate the siege module if you really want to compare both.
---
planetary interaction idea! |
Arvald
Caldari
House of Tempers
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Posted - 2008.01.08 16:19:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Kissapasi
Originally by: wierchas noobhunter
first of u should not use all skills at lvl 5
second meh get a clue
Please explain instead of "get a clue".
it means those two ships preform different roles, so get a clue
---------------------------
Originally by: Last Wolf
I prefer smartass, but I like some variety now and then.
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Shinnen
Caldari
Northern Intelligence
The Reckoning.
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Posted - 2008.01.08 16:45:00 -
[12]
Moros cannot jump as far either, which can be very annoying....
--
Banned since 2005, back by popular demand! They said it wouldn't happen!! |
Ozzie Asrail
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.01.08 17:20:00 -
[13]
What the... This thread is weird. 
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K'reemy G'udness
The Greater Goon
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.01.08 17:25:00 -
[14]
If you can fly either of these and not know the difference between a carrier and a dread, I just have one question:
Ebay much?
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Skyr
ECP Rogues
The Reckoning.
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Posted - 2008.01.08 17:28:00 -
[15]
Also, look up the triage module properties and then recalculate 
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Scarlet Maximus
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Posted - 2008.01.08 17:43:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Scarlet Maximus on 08/01/2008 17:43:02
To summarize the point of what people are trying to tell you: EFT numbers are not a substitute for actual combat.
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TimMc
Gallente
Vidar Fierd
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2008.01.08 17:53:00 -
[17]
Edited by: TimMc on 08/01/2008 17:53:48
Originally by: Grimpak
Edited by: Grimpak on 08/01/2008 16:17:43
Originally by: Kissapasi
Originally by: wierchas noobhunter
first of u should not use all skills at lvl 5
second meh get a clue
Please explain instead of "get a clue".
I was going to type a long and coherent post, but that would be pretty much feeding a troll.
bottom line is, you don't use "all skills at 5" to argue with ship balance.
also why are you comparing a CARRIER, wich is first and foremost a fire support/logistic platform, to a DREADNAUGHT, wich is a siege platform? a VERY bad setup siege platform btw.
nevermind oranges here, you're comparing eggs with apples?
oh and deactivate the siege module if you really want to compare both.
QFT, disable the seige module. You are comparing a stationary stuck ship to a mobile one. Should we start comparing the tanks of POS against dreadnoughts?
Honestly both those capital ship setups are really bad anyway.
Edit: ok not really bad--- horribly horrible ungodly bad.
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Jongo Fett
Caldari
An Eye For An Eye
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2008.01.08 17:57:00 -
[18]
also in seige mode you can only lock 1 target if i remember correctly.
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Captain Cyrex
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Posted - 2008.01.08 18:02:00 -
[19]
So many morons in this thread, they have completely missed OP's point.
Both the Moros and Thantos are able to provide excellent support. Moros can engage support ships with about 1200dps coming from its drones, and can output even more dps via capital weapons onto other capitals or installations. Whereas Thantos is stuck with drones alone, but does have much better range on its RRs. I personally would go with the Moros, just make sure you don't stray too far from each other.
Level 5 in EFT will show you what the ship is capable off, use it.
And no, i'm not OP's alt, I'm just lazy to log in to my other account.
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wierchas noobhunter
Cosmic Fusion
When Fat Kids Attack
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Posted - 2008.01.08 18:05:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Captain Cyrex
So many morons in this thread, they have completely missed OP's point.
Both the Moros and Thantos are able to provide excellent support. Moros can engage support ships with about 1200dps coming from its drones, and can output even more dps via capital weapons onto other capitals or installations. Whereas Thantos is stuck with drones alone, but does have much better range on its RRs. I personally would go with the Moros, just make sure you don't stray too far from each other.
Level 5 in EFT will show you what the ship is capable off, use it.
And no, i'm not OP's alt, I'm just lazy to log in to my other account.
no moros is not suport ship
most of time u will not use your drones
i am almost sure then 99 % of players use it to shoot poses
cariers are suport ships they intended to do sport stuff just look at there bonuses
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Grimpak
Gallente
Trinity Nova
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Posted - 2008.01.08 18:36:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Captain Cyrex
So many morons in this thread, they have completely missed OP's point.
Both the Moros and Thantos are able to provide excellent support.
stopped reading right there.
moros is not a support ship, is a siege ship.
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planetary interaction idea! |
Guer
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Posted - 2008.01.08 19:12:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Scarlet Maximus
Edited by: Scarlet Maximus on 08/01/2008 17:43:02
To summarize the point of what people are trying to tell you: EFT numbers are not a substitute for actual intellect.
fixed.
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Jezala
Repo Industries
R.E.P.O.
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Posted - 2008.01.08 19:33:00 -
[23]
If you're going to compare a Thanatos to a sieged Moros, then what you should be looking at is a Thanatos in triage mode vs a sieged Moros.
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Kissapasi
Kissapasi Corporation
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Posted - 2008.01.08 19:46:00 -
[24]
Ok, looks like too many people is missing the point of this thread.
So I need to represent a new challenge:
Moros setup part 2
Make me a carrier (preferably thanatos) setup that is able to perma-run 3*capital remote reps while having a 2800dps+ tank and 1200dps. (2 million effective hp with lg slaves on top of that). Smartbomb is required for drone countering.
(No avatars in gang or gang bonuses, this is calculated without.)
And that is with t2/faction only.
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Flurren
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Posted - 2008.01.08 19:53:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Flurren on 08/01/2008 19:54:22
Originally by: Kissapasi
Ok, looks like too many people is missing the point of this thread.
So I need to represent a new challenge:
Moros setup part 2
Make me a carrier (preferably thanatos) setup that is able to perma-run 3*capital remote reps while having a 2800dps+ tank and 1200dps. (2 million effective hp with lg slaves on top of that). Smartbomb is required for drone countering.
(No avatars in gang or gang bonuses, this is calculated without.)
And that is with t2/faction only.
Who cares, you'll never fly either. Hint:- there are other ship stats than dps and tank and dps is generally subject to tracking,sig radius and other things. If you think a carriers only purpose is to tank and dps you have serious problems before you've even started...
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Grimpak
Gallente
Trinity Nova
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Posted - 2008.01.08 19:55:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Kissapasi
Ok, looks like too many people is missing the point of this thread.
So I need to represent a new challenge:
Moros setup part 2
Make me a carrier (preferably thanatos) setup that is able to perma-run 3*capital remote reps while having a 2800dps+ tank and 1200dps. (2 million effective hp with lg slaves on top of that). Smartbomb is required for drone countering.
(No avatars in gang or gang bonuses, this is calculated without.)
And that is with t2/faction only.
sure. an archon with 5 DCU's?
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planetary interaction idea! |
madaluap
Gallente
Mercenary Forces
Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2008.01.08 19:56:00 -
[27]
Edited by: madaluap on 08/01/2008 19:57:47
Originally by: Kissapasi
Ok, looks like too many people is missing the point of this thread.
So I need to represent a new challenge:
Moros setup part 2
Make me a carrier (preferably thanatos) setup that is able to perma-run 3*capital remote reps while having a 2800dps+ tank and 1200dps. (2 million effective hp with lg slaves on top of that). Smartbomb is required for drone countering.
(No avatars in gang or gang bonuses, this is calculated without.)
And that is with t2/faction only.
There is no point using ogre's. They are way too slow and get smartbombed by every single MS/carrier outthere. Do you really want to sit in space for 10 minutes with a SHOOT ME, SHOOT ME sign while the entire fight is allready over. Triage has the same problem btw.
I do understand youre point. Your point is that the dreadnaught has the same capability as the carrier. Or is even better. I cannot stress this enough: 15 km range is not enough on remote repairs. Im sorry, but its not.
_________________________________________________
Breetime
A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA |
Kissapasi
Kissapasi Corporation
|
Posted - 2008.01.08 19:58:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Kissapasi on 08/01/2008 19:59:32
Originally by: Grimpak
sure. an archon with 5 DCU's?
Archon can perma run 3 remotes with a right setup, but it has less dps than this moros setup. Tank is about the same, bit over 2800dps.
No carrier with 5*DCU can run 3*remote reps.
Originally by: madaluap
I do understand youre point. Your point is that the dreadnaught has the same capability as the carrier. Or is even better. I cannot stress this enough: 15 km range is not enough on remote repairs. Im sorry, but its not.
I have seen gangs with about 8km reps work perfectly and tank incredible amounts. 15km is double of that.
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Laboratus
Gallente
BGG
Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2008.01.08 20:06:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Grimpak
...you don't use "all skills at 5" to argue with ship balance...
Actually...
If you are comparing maximum performance as a balance indicator and don't want to make excessively long posts that no-one will read due to "OFMGWOTDNR" you make numbers accoaring to lvl 5 skills.
___
P.S.
Post with your main.
Mind control and tin hats |
madaluap
Gallente
Mercenary Forces
Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2008.01.08 20:14:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Kissapasi
Edited by: Kissapasi on 08/01/2008 19:59:32
Originally by: Grimpak
sure. an archon with 5 DCU's?
Archon can perma run 3 remotes with a right setup, but it has less dps than this moros setup. Tank is about the same, bit over 2800dps.
No carrier with 5*DCU can run 3*remote reps.
Originally by: madaluap
I do understand youre point. Your point is that the dreadnaught has the same capability as the carrier. Or is even better. I cannot stress this enough: 15 km range is not enough on remote repairs. Im sorry, but its not.
I have seen gangs with about 8km reps work perfectly and tank incredible amounts. 15km is double of that.
Not on a capital/fleet lvl.
_________________________________________________
Breetime
A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA |
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