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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Jovoich Towers Inc.	Posted - 2008.01.10 15:09:00 - [1] Staff Training needed at CCP! Yesterday I started a post in response to a reply I received from a petition. The subject of the post was : Are you allowed to pod war targets in empire? As you can see a CCP employee responded and confirmed that yes you can and are 100% within your rights to pod empire war targets. Over the last two days, I have been in contact with another CCP employee with re guards the same subject. Unfortunately I'm not allowed to post his responses here. He informed me that you are NOT allowed to pod empire war targets. So I feel the need to come here and once again request this subject to be cleared up. I would like a senior member of CCP to answer this simple question :- Are you allowed to pod empire war targets? (please tick the correct box) [ ] Yes [ ] No Now, I plan on sending an email comlaint with reguards this matter as atleast 1 CCP employee has no idea WTF hes on about. Thanks Jovoich
Duncan Bannatyne Machiavellian Intuition	Posted - 2008.01.10 15:10:00 - [2] Originally by: Jovoich Whine... I have a complete empathy with you over your whine... Wait, what? Duncan Bannatyne The Dragons Are Taking Over...
Aceoil Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2008.01.10 15:12:00 - [3] Are you allowed to pod empire war targets? (please tick the correct box) [X] Yes [ ] No Maybe CCP needs to get a manual for these sorts of questions. Because it appears that even they dont play the game....
Jovoich Towers Inc.	Posted - 2008.01.10 15:13:00 - [4] This isn't a whine you muppet. When I sent a petition I expect to get a correct answer. Which appears not to be happening. This just doesn't effect me, it effects everyone who has ever petitioned something.
RaTTuS BIG Ka-Tet	Posted - 2008.01.10 15:14:00 - [5] war targets are poddable -- BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve [Now Verified] & Recruiting
Lazuran Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation	Posted - 2008.01.10 15:14:00 - [6] Originally by: Aceoil Maybe CCP needs to get a manual for these sorts of questions. Because it appears that even they dont play the game.... There is one, you can find it in the "Knowledgebase" (menu on the left). But it doesn't cover many of the far too complicated game rules of EVE ... Disclaimer: I do not speak for the fanbois.

CCP Wrangler	Posted - 2008.01.10 15:21:00 - [7] If you're at war with another corporation/alliance you can attack and pod their members anywhere, including high sec space. Wrangler Community Manager CCP Games, EVE Online Email / Netfang "The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it."

ApaKaka Lone Starr Corporation	Posted - 2008.01.10 15:22:00 - [8] Me personally find it kind of heartening that different people give different answers on CCP support. This means they can have use their own brain and judgement independently (albeit wrongly sometimes) and not simply use scripts when responding to queries. I think everyone has had experience with outsourced customer-support following a script and refusing to expand beyond the lines on their paper, or completely unable to do so. It is also heartening that you can escalate your petitions if you feel the reply is completely bogus, to get a "managerial" response. Of course, it would be good if all customer support employees knew the damn product they are selling too.
Jovoich Towers Inc.	Posted - 2008.01.10 15:27:00 - [9] Originally by: CCP Wrangler If you're at war with another corporation/alliance you can attack and pod their members anywhere, including high sec space. Wrangler, thank you for your fast response. Could you please look into this matter on my behalf and give this employee some extra training. I honestly don't think its 2 much to ask for an apology from said employee. Thanks Jovoich

CCP Wrangler	Posted - 2008.01.10 15:30:00 - [10] Originally by: Jovoich Originally by: CCP Wrangler If you're at war with another corporation/alliance you can attack and pod their members anywhere, including high sec space. Wrangler, thank you for your fast response. Could you please look into this matter on my behalf and give this employee some extra training. I honestly don't think its 2 much to ask for an apology from said employee. Thanks Jovoich I'm sorry for the confusion, I would assume that someone thought you meant simple kill rights and not war or something like that. Wrangler Community Manager CCP Games, EVE Online Email / Netfang "The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it."

Jovoich Towers Inc.	Posted - 2008.01.10 15:33:00 - [11] Edited by: Jovoich on 10/01/2008 15:34:36 This is the last message I sent the GM - You have told me that if you are at war, you arn't allowed to pod kill your war targets in high sec. Is that the correct?! A simple Yes or No would do. If someone can get confused over that, then you need to look at how your recruit people
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.10 15:34:00 - [12] Originally by: Jovoich Originally by: CCP Wrangler If you're at war with another corporation/alliance you can attack and pod their members anywhere, including high sec space. Wrangler, thank you for your fast response. Could you please look into this matter on my behalf and give this employee some extra training. I honestly don't think its 2 much to ask for an apology from said employee. Thanks Jovoich Why don't you ask your corp mates - I know that at least one of them has personal experience -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Skaaj FireStar Inc Pure.	Posted - 2008.01.10 15:36:00 - [13] Originally by: Jovoich Originally by: CCP Wrangler If you're at war with another corporation/alliance you can attack and pod their members anywhere, including high sec space. Wrangler, thank you for your fast response. Could you please look into this matter on my behalf and give this employee some extra training. I honestly don't think its 2 much to ask for an apology from said employee. Thanks Jovoich Why?? Would an apology magically make a difference? this happens all the time in the real world, people mis read something or give an answer that they are sure is rigt but isn't It's not like this employee of CCP argued with you about it... If he had I would expect an apology too, but in this case, there is no need to make a fuss.
JamnOne Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.10 15:37:00 - [14] Originally by: CCP Wrangler If you're at war with another corporation/alliance you can attack and pod their members anywhere, including high sec space. Hi, Just for clarification: define pod? Does that mean you can put them in their egg or you can actually destroy the egg? ________________________ Originally by: CCP Prism X Hah! Vengeance is sweet!
Jovoich Towers Inc.	Posted - 2008.01.10 15:46:00 - [15] Why?? Would an apology magically make a difference? this happens all the time in the real world, people mis read something or give an answer that they are sure is rigt but isn't It's not like this employee of CCP argued with you about it... If he had I would expect an apology too, but in this case, there is no need to make a fuss. I asked this question directly about 3 or 4 times. each time i got an incorrect response. If in the real world I answer a customer incorrectly 3-4 times even if im 100% im right i still say im sorry.
Avery Fatwallet	Posted - 2008.01.10 15:46:00 - [16] Originally by: JamnOne Originally by: CCP Wrangler If you're at war with another corporation/alliance you can attack and pod their members anywhere, including high sec space. Hi, Just for clarification: define pod? Does that mean you can put them in their egg or you can actually destroy the egg? 1) this 2) i like ccp, i love eve. BUT: a game as complex as eve should NOT be as lacking in documentation, as it is right now. eve is alive. it grows and changes every day, documentation doesnt. and then theres this ever appearing problems of exploits not clearly defined. you see it in threads left and right: one gm says "exploit" the other says "no exploit". GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER FFS! i mean... how hard can it be? make a list of exploits, define rules, pin it to wall. done. say what? more than 100 rules and exceptions? well, no surprise. but still, such a list (handed to every GM) should be mandatory. even more so as more and more possibilities for exploits arise. sorry, but in that account ccp doesnt seem very professional. one hand doesnt know, what the other does. hint hint: youre not anymore a buncha geeks that made a cool game... youre a big company now. so if its possible, keep the good things from "buncha geeks" and take the good things from "big company" while leaving out the bad side effects of both
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2008.01.10 16:01:00 - [17] If you don't know what podding someone means, you should not be a GM. If you hear someone say "I podded that guy" and you understand him meaning "I destroyed his ship, and thus put him in a pod" you're not too quick. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
methodmo Free Lapland	Posted - 2008.01.10 16:11:00 - [18] u can pod in emp wars in high sec the gm could atleast say yes u r right sorry for the inconvinience i caused
Jovoich Towers Inc.	Posted - 2008.01.10 16:21:00 - [19] Originally by: methodmo u can pod in emp wars in high sec the gm could atleast say yes u r right sorry for the inconvinience i caused thats all I want.
RaAshan	Posted - 2008.01.10 16:30:00 - [20] YO! You've got your answer, why are you still pestering on? Mistakes happen! Chill out.
Jovoich Towers Inc.	Posted - 2008.01.10 16:41:00 - [21] Edited by: Jovoich on 10/01/2008 16:41:52 coz its a joke take that i should need to go to the forums twice to get a correct answer. I would just like a ... sorry for the***** up.
Lil'Red Ridin'Hood Snake Assault	Posted - 2008.01.10 16:59:00 - [22] Cliffnotes: Originally by: Jovoich Boo-frickety-hoo. CCP Support misunderstood my question and gave me a wrong answer. I deserve bunch of hand-picked flowers, a pat on the back, and involved CCP Support members crawling at my feet asking for fogiveness.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.10 17:00:00 - [23] I am pretty sure that Devs overrule GMs. So in that last thread when a Dev said it, I don't know why you went back to talking to GMs. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Melor Rend	Posted - 2008.01.10 17:14:00 - [24] Edited by: Melor Rend on 10/01/2008 17:16:04 The GMs are to busy gagging people for calling Feroxes the S-word in local then to answer actual questions from the player base... edited since i may be wrong

CCP Atropos	Posted - 2008.01.10 17:15:00 - [25] In war, essentially anything goes. As long as the target is a war target you can destroy their ship, and then destroy their capsule.

Melor Rend	Posted - 2008.01.10 17:19:00 - [26] Originally by: CCP Atropos In war, essentially anything goes. As long as the target is a war target you can destroy their ship, and then destroy their capsule. And otherwise podding (suiciding pods) in empire isn't allowed or what? Why didn't you do something about the Jita-Bomber then if thats the case?
Michayel Lyon Portal Industries	Posted - 2008.01.10 17:26:00 - [27] Originally by: Melor Rend Originally by: CCP Atropos In war, essentially anything goes. As long as the target is a war target you can destroy their ship, and then destroy their capsule. And otherwise podding (suiciding pods) in empire isn't allowed or what? Why didn't you do something about the Jita-Bomber then if thats the case? I think there is a confusion over the term "allowed". Basically, in terms of game rules, killing someones ship and/or pod is allowed anywhere. However, unless the person is somehow flagged to you (in a war if it's a pod, some more cases if it's a ship), killing said person in high-sec comes with a penalty of losing your own ship. In other words "allowed but with a penalty". --- Lasiverin Dark > Is everyone here allied? Red Knight > we are allied by our zombie like ability to ***** missions GM Xamother: "Beeing online is not considered harassment or exploit."
Melor Rend	Posted - 2008.01.10 17:28:00 - [28] Originally by: Michayel Lyon Originally by: Melor Rend Originally by: CCP Atropos In war, essentially anything goes. As long as the target is a war target you can destroy their ship, and then destroy their capsule. And otherwise podding (suiciding pods) in empire isn't allowed or what? Why didn't you do something about the Jita-Bomber then if thats the case? I think there is a confusion over the term "allowed". Basically, in terms of game rules, killing someones ship and/or pod is allowed anywhere. However, unless the person is somehow flagged to you (in a war if it's a pod, some more cases if it's a ship), killing said person in high-sec comes with a penalty of losing your own ship. In other words "allowed but with a penalty". Well if suiciding a pod is griefing then that would be forbidden by the EULA, right? Thats what I'm asking... is it ok to suicide pods in highsec or not? I don't care about in-game penalties.. only RL ones.
Westly Synpa GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.10 17:36:00 - [29] Originally by: Melor Rend Originally by: Michayel Lyon Originally by: Melor Rend Originally by: CCP Atropos In war, essentially anything goes. As long as the target is a war target you can destroy their ship, and then destroy their capsule. And otherwise podding (suiciding pods) in empire isn't allowed or what? Why didn't you do something about the Jita-Bomber then if thats the case? I think there is a confusion over the term "allowed". Basically, in terms of game rules, killing someones ship and/or pod is allowed anywhere. However, unless the person is somehow flagged to you (in a war if it's a pod, some more cases if it's a ship), killing said person in high-sec comes with a penalty of losing your own ship. In other words "allowed but with a penalty". Well if suiciding a pod is griefing then that would be forbidden by the EULA, right? Thats what I'm asking... is it ok to suicide pods in highsec or not? I don't care about in-game penalties.. only RL ones. They Give you free Newbie ships go suicide in those and if they choose to pod you after not much you can do about it.
Melor Rend	Posted - 2008.01.10 17:43:00 - [30] Originally by: CCP Atropos Ok, allow me to elaborate. You can do anything you want to anyone i.e. Kill their ship or capsule, regardless or where you are. However; if they are not flagged to you, or at war, CONCORD will subsequently kill your ship. If you are at war, it's considered 'CONCORD sanctioned' and you can kill their ships and pods and there is no police intervention. Avoiding this mechanic is considered an exploit, and will be dealt with as such. Avoiding the general route of game mechanics is a constantly evolving balance between the Game Masters and the player base, as the player base is immensely creative and finds new and innovative ways to conduct their business (consider the recent alliance war dodge tactic). As always, what ever you choose to do, remember not to violate the EULA and enter into tactics designed wiht the sole intention of griefing another player. The GM's don't like that kind of thing Thanks alot for taking the time to answer my question. That's pretty much what I expected and the way I've played so far. I just got a bit worried when I read things such as "podding isn't allowed in highsec". I'm glad that I only misinterpreted the post!
DigitalCommunist Obsidian Core	Posted - 2008.01.10 17:46:00 - [31] You can do whatever you want to anyone you want, anywhere you want. The only time you're breaking any rules is if you escape from CONCORD without losing your ship. I don't understand how much more simple it can be. _______________________________ Complex Fullerene Shards; why God? :\|

CCP Atropos	Posted - 2008.01.10 17:47:00 - [32] Originally by: DigitalCommunist You can do whatever you want to anyone you want, anywhere you want. The only time you're breaking any rules is if you escape from CONCORD without losing your ship. I don't understand how much more simple it can be. Pretty much.

Melor Rend	Posted - 2008.01.10 17:52:00 - [33] Edited by: Melor Rend on 10/01/2008 17:54:41 Edited by: Melor Rend on 10/01/2008 17:52:56 Originally by: DigitalCommunist You can do whatever you want to anyone you want, anywhere you want. The only time you're breaking any rules is if you escape from CONCORD without losing your ship. I don't understand how much more simple it can be. It would be simple but for the fact that there is a rule in the EULA that forbids you to "grief" other players. Griefing is defined by a tactic that has the sole purpose of inflicting grief on another player without the griefer gaining anything from it. In my opinion killing pods in highsec has only one purpose: to inflict grief (since you loose your ship to CONCORD and don't get any loot or other stuff from a pod). Thats why I don't find it quite as simple as you claim it to be. Now however I got a clear answer from a Dev: suicide pods and stuff all you want as long as you don't circumvent game mechanics (e.g. CONCORD).
DigitalCommunist Obsidian Core	Posted - 2008.01.10 17:52:00 - [34] \o/ _______________________________ Complex Fullerene Shards; why God? :\|
RaAshan	Posted - 2008.01.10 17:55:00 - [35] Originally by: Jovoich Edited by: Jovoich on 10/01/2008 16:41:52 coz its a joke take that i should need to go to the forums twice to get a correct answer. I would just like a ... sorry for the***** up. It's people like you that flog GM's and Dev's with useless diatribe that slow down the process for everyone. You got your bloody answer, move on!
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.01.10 17:57:00 - [36] Originally by: Melor Rend It would be simple but for the fact that there is a rule in the EULA that forbids you to "grief" other players. Griefing is defined by a tactic that has the sole purpose of inflicting grief on another player without the griefer gaining anything from it. In my opinion killing pods in highsec has only one purpose: to inflict grief (since you loose your ship to CONCORD and don't get any loot or other stuff from a pod). Griefing is about inflicting suffering on your target for no other reason than enjoyment of that persons suffering. There are lots of reasons that are not griefing why someone would be willing to suffer a loss to inflict a loss on someone else. This makes it very diffucult to prove that someone is infact griefing you.
Melor Rend	Posted - 2008.01.10 18:00:00 - [37] Edited by: Melor Rend on 10/01/2008 18:05:06 Originally by: Matalino Originally by: Melor Rend It would be simple but for the fact that there is a rule in the EULA that forbids you to "grief" other players. Griefing is defined by a tactic that has the sole purpose of inflicting grief on another player without the griefer gaining anything from it. In my opinion killing pods in highsec has only one purpose: to inflict grief (since you loose your ship to CONCORD and don't get any loot or other stuff from a pod). Griefing is about inflicting suffering on your target for no other reason than enjoyment of that persons suffering. There are lots of reasons that are not griefing why someone would be willing to suffer a loss to inflict a loss on someone else. This makes it very diffucult to prove that someone is infact griefing you. That is exactly why I was asking this question. So to make a long story short: The rule against griefing is in the EULA but in reality is never used since "personal satisfaction from killing a pod in highsec" is enough of a reason for the kill not to be considered a grief-kill. I'm happy with that answer... got worried there for a moment hehe.
DigitalCommunist Obsidian Core	Posted - 2008.01.10 18:05:00 - [38] Originally by: Melor Rend Originally by: DigitalCommunist You can do whatever you want to anyone you want, anywhere you want. The only time you're breaking any rules is if you escape from CONCORD without losing your ship. I don't understand how much more simple it can be. It would be simple but for the fact that there is a rule in the EULA that forbids you to "grief" other players. Griefing is defined by a tactic that has the sole purpose of inflicting grief on another player without the griefer gaining anything from it. In my opinion killing pods in highsec has only one purpose: to inflict grief (since you loose your ship to CONCORD and don't get any loot or other stuff from a pod). Thats why I don't find it quite as simple as you claim it to be. Now that I got a clear answer: suicide pods all you want as long as you don't circumvent game mechanics (e.g. CONCORD). That's a clause and nothing more. It allows CCP to stop someone from chaining newbies in the starter systems using a legit tactic that wouldn't work that well against any other players. There really isn't anything gained by screwing with utter newbies, and all you're doing is hurting CCP's wallet. Obviously they're not gonna like that. Your opinion that killing a pod is griefing is broken because a) you gain a corpse, b) you inflict real damage. Most of the cases that could be called griefing don't involve you sacrificing your sec and money to gain kills at all, because if you do that you've proved the kill has some value. CCP can't judge that for you, but they can judge whether or not you're being a ***** by doing things like bumping freighters or ejecting shuttles to prevent warping _______________________________ Complex Fullerene Shards; why God? :\|
Lisento Slaven Amarr Lisento and Miscellaneous Elk	Posted - 2008.01.10 18:11:00 - [39] You sound like you already knew the answer to your own question before you even asked it...especially considering you said yourself you asked it at least TWICE to two different employee's as shown here: "The subject of the post was : Are you allowed to pod war targets in empire? As you can see a CCP employee responded and confirmed that yes you can and are 100% within your rights to pod empire war targets. Over the last two days, I have been in contact with another CCP employee with re guards the same subject. Unfortunately I'm not allowed to post his responses here. He informed me that you are NOT allowed to pod empire war targets." So I have to ask - was the second employee (you don't say if it was a petition/GM) being sarcastic with you for asking the question when you already know the answer, or what? --- Put in space whales!
Lurtz Caldari Gunrunners and Gamblers	Posted - 2008.01.10 19:40:00 - [40] While I would agree that there are some very inept GMs there at CCP, I have fortunately only once gotten ineptitude at both basic and senior level. (names available on request, but I won't post them here). If there is a problem with a petition escalate it. THAT SAID..... petitions are slow enough without people using the petition system to ask simple gameplay questions that are common knowlege and easily answered in help channel or forums! Why are you wasting GM time with this?
Elmicker	Posted - 2008.01.10 19:44:00 - [41] Originally by: DigitalCommunist You can do whatever you want to anyone you want, anywhere you want. The only time you're breaking any rules is if you escape from CONCORD without losing your ship. I don't understand how much more simple it can be. In theory. In reality, no.

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