Originally by: EliteSlave

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Lets say im mining in a belt, and you come flip my can, and i aggro you and pop your ship and then i point / web your pod, and keep you their, would you consider this to be griefing? or just a use of gameplay mechanics?

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Originally by: Minerva Vulcan

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But poor victimized Ulf...I weep lavender scented tears for you.

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Originally by: Kirjava

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Would I be allowed to hold the pod, log an alt in then suicide the pod with my alt? Is this an exploit or a variation of the Lofty manouver?

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Originally by: Jovoich

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Yes you can scram and web the pod, and no concord wont kill you. But it isnt allowed.

P.s. This is why i sent my petition about podding in empire.

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Originally by: PhantomVyper

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Edited by: PhantomVyper on 10/01/2008 15:57:05

Originally by: Jovoich

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Yes you can scram and web the pod, and no concord wont kill you. But it isnt allowed.

P.s. This is why i sent my petition about podding in empire.

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Are you sure about this? I was always under the impression that any aggro against a non-outlaw pod in safe-sec = death by Concordokken!

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Originally by: EliteSlave

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Originally by: PhantomVyper

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Edited by: PhantomVyper on 10/01/2008 15:57:05

Originally by: Jovoich

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Yes you can scram and web the pod, and no concord wont kill you. But it isnt allowed.

P.s. This is why i sent my petition about podding in empire.

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Are you sure about this? I was always under the impression that any aggro against a non-outlaw pod in safe-sec = death by Concordokken!

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Technically speaking yes, but once u flip the can and are aggressed, u become an "outlaw" in a pod

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Originally by: CCP Navigator

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Just a little clarification:

You can pod someone in high security if you have a CONCORD sanctioned war, however, you cannot pod a player for can flipping. CONCORD will retaliate in this instance

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Originally by: Adonis 4174

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Originally by: EliteSlave

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Originally by: PhantomVyper

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Edited by: PhantomVyper on 10/01/2008 15:57:05

Originally by: Jovoich

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Yes you can scram and web the pod, and no concord wont kill you. But it isnt allowed.

P.s. This is why i sent my petition about podding in empire.

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Are you sure about this? I was always under the impression that any aggro against a non-outlaw pod in safe-sec = death by Concordokken!

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Technically speaking yes, but once u flip the can and are aggressed, u become an "outlaw" in a pod

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What happens when the kill rights expire?

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Originally by: Kalazar

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Originally by: Adonis 4174

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Originally by: EliteSlave

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Originally by: PhantomVyper

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Edited by: PhantomVyper on 10/01/2008 15:57:05

Originally by: Jovoich

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Yes you can scram and web the pod, and no concord wont kill you. But it isnt allowed.

P.s. This is why i sent my petition about podding in empire.

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Are you sure about this? I was always under the impression that any aggro against a non-outlaw pod in safe-sec = death by Concordokken!

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Technically speaking yes, but once u flip the can and are aggressed, u become an "outlaw" in a pod

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What happens when the kill rights expire?

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They won't if you take advantage of the fact you now have a flashy red person in a pod sitting 2k from you webbed and pointed. The aggression timer keeps resetting, and you can go away for hours if you want, leaving them to sit there and ponder life, the universe and everything.

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Originally by: nether void

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Originally by: Kalazar

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Originally by: Adonis 4174

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Originally by: EliteSlave

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Originally by: PhantomVyper

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Edited by: PhantomVyper on 10/01/2008 15:57:05

Originally by: Jovoich

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Yes you can scram and web the pod, and no concord wont kill you. But it isnt allowed.

P.s. This is why i sent my petition about podding in empire.

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Are you sure about this? I was always under the impression that any aggro against a non-outlaw pod in safe-sec = death by Concordokken!

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Technically speaking yes, but once u flip the can and are aggressed, u become an "outlaw" in a pod

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What happens when the kill rights expire?

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They won't if you take advantage of the fact you now have a flashy red person in a pod sitting 2k from you webbed and pointed. The aggression timer keeps resetting, and you can go away for hours if you want, leaving them to sit there and ponder life, the universe and everything.

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Can't they just log out? Wait 10. Log back in? I think the point of 'tackling' them is to hold them for the pod kill, or did I misread the original question?

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Originally by: Xaen

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I love how most of the posters missed the point completely.

I dunno if it's considered griefing under the EULA/ToS or not, but holding a pod in place without popping it indefinitely is hilarious, and I approve.

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Originally by: "EULA

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A grief player, or "griefer," is a player who devotes much of his time to making othersÆ lives miserable, in a large part deriving his enjoyment of the game from these activities while he does not profit from it in any way. Grief tactics are the mechanics a griefer will utilize to antagonize other players.

This should not be confused with standard conflict that might arise between two players. At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account.

An example of grief play would be the so called "Can baiting" in starter systems. An experienced player drops a cargo container with some items in front of a station in a starter system and waits for a new player to take from it. The new player is flagged and promptly attacked and killed by the owner of the container. Doing the same in starter tutorial complexes is also considered grief play and will not be tolerated.

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Originally by: nether void

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This is like the people that rob your house, but sue you cause they tripped over a toy in the hallway and broke their ankle.

I wouldn't call it griefing; I'd call it justice and your moral obligation.

This game should be harsh for innocents, and brutal for aggressors. Unfortunately in most cases those roles are reversed.

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Originally by: Crumplecorn

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Nothing this lulzy can be wrong.

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Originally by: Kuar Z'thain

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Originally by: Xaen

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I love how most of the posters missed the point completely.

I dunno if it's considered griefing under the EULA/ToS or not, but holding a pod in place without popping it indefinitely is hilarious, and I approve.

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What does the EULA/ToS have to do with griefing?

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Originally by: Xaen

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Originally by: Kuar Z'thain

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Originally by: Xaen

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I love how most of the posters missed the point completely.

I dunno if it's considered griefing under the EULA/ToS or not, but holding a pod in place without popping it indefinitely is hilarious, and I approve.

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What does the EULA/ToS have to do with griefing?

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Stop trolling.

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Originally by: Xaen

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The fact that there's a contradiction between the statement "does not profit in any way" and the example of blowing up newbies (since you profit from their wrecks and cans) only serves to illustrate that it's the spirit of the "don't grief" rule that matters, not the particular verbiage.

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Originally by: Cpt Fina

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from Wreckthread

Originally by: Xaen

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The fact that there's a contradiction between the statement "does not profit in any way" and the example of blowing up newbies (since you profit from their wrecks and cans) only serves to illustrate that it's the spirit of the "don't grief" rule that matters, not the particular verbiage.

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In this case the one that hold the pod doesn't even get any financial gain from it. Should be even more clear how to classify it then.

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Originally by: Cpt Fina

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Edited by: Cpt Fina on 10/01/2008 17:45:33
from Wreckthread

Originally by: Xaen

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The fact that there's a contradiction between the statement "does not profit in any way" and the example of blowing up newbies (since you profit from their wrecks and cans) only serves to illustrate that it's the spirit of the "don't grief" rule that matters, not the particular verbiage.

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In this case the one that hold the pod doesn't even get any financial gain from it. Should be even more clear how to classify it then.

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Originally by: EliteSlave

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Lets say im mining in a belt, and you come flip my can, and i aggro you and pop your ship and then i point / web your pod, and keep you their, would you consider this to be griefing? or just a use of gameplay mechanics?

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Originally by: nether void

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Originally by: Cpt Fina

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Edited by: Cpt Fina on 10/01/2008 17:45:33
from Wreckthread

Originally by: Xaen

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The fact that there's a contradiction between the statement "does not profit in any way" and the example of blowing up newbies (since you profit from their wrecks and cans) only serves to illustrate that it's the spirit of the "don't grief" rule that matters, not the particular verbiage.

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In this case the one that hold the pod doesn't even get any financial gain from it. Should be even more clear how to classify it then.

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The financial gain is in the ore thief not being able to try to steal from you again.

The problem with 'does not profit in any way' does not apply in Eve. In Eve every action changes the profit or loss of another individual no matter what that action is. Even the action of logging off changes it. Even the action of cancelling your account. Even the action of choosing not to purchase the game in so much effectively never having played the game. Everything changes, if even on a minute scale, the profit and loss of every individual in the game in some sort of way.

Therefore there can be no act that can be considered griefing.

...Which is why I don't agree with the definition of griefing in this game, but that's an entirely seperate thread.

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Originally by: nether void

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Originally by: Cpt Fina

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Edited by: Cpt Fina on 10/01/2008 17:45:33
from Wreckthread

Originally by: Xaen

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The fact that there's a contradiction between the statement "does not profit in any way" and the example of blowing up newbies (since you profit from their wrecks and cans) only serves to illustrate that it's the spirit of the "don't grief" rule that matters, not the particular verbiage.

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In this case the one that hold the pod doesn't even get any financial gain from it. Should be even more clear how to classify it then.

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The financial gain is in the ore thief not being able to try to steal from you again.

The problem with 'does not profit in any way' does not apply in Eve. In Eve every action changes the profit or loss of another individual no matter what that action is. Even the action of logging off changes it. Even the action of cancelling your account. Even the action of choosing not to purchase the game in so much effectively never having played the game. Everything changes, if even on a minute scale, the profit and loss of every individual in the game in some sort of way.

Therefore there can be no act that can be considered griefing.

...Which is why I don't agree with the definition of griefing in this game, but that's an entirely seperate thread.

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Originally by: Xaen

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Originally by: Cpt Fina

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from Wreckthread

Originally by: Xaen

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The fact that there's a contradiction between the statement "does not profit in any way" and the example of blowing up newbies (since you profit from their wrecks and cans) only serves to illustrate that it's the spirit of the "don't grief" rule that matters, not the particular verbiage.

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In this case the one that hold the pod doesn't even get any financial gain from it. Should be even more clear how to classify it then.

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The fact that, in the OP's case at least, it's retaliation, I imagine the GMs would be more willing to allow it.

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Originally by: CCP Wrangler

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If you can understand our goal, disagree with our solution and offer a solution that is equal or better your opinion has a better chance of being heard...

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Originally by: Cpt Fina

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Originally by: nether void

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This is like the people that rob your house, but sue you cause they tripped over a toy in the hallway and broke their ankle.

I wouldn't call it griefing; I'd call it justice and your moral obligation.

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So some people should have the right to use currently unsactioned gamemechanics against players who have chosen to play an allowed and by CCP advertised careerpath because you don't condone their way of playing?

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Originally by: Thunderguts

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Originally by: Cpt Fina

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Originally by: nether void

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This is like the people that rob your house, but sue you cause they tripped over a toy in the hallway and broke their ankle.

I wouldn't call it griefing; I'd call it justice and your moral obligation.

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So some people should have the right to use currently unsactioned gamemechanics against players who have chosen to play an allowed and by CCP advertised careerpath because you don't condone their way of playing?

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I don't think that's what nether void meant. He said it was justice to mess with a can flipper, that's not the same as saying he "doesn't condone their way of playing". My character may not be a pirate, but that doesn't mean I "don't condone piracy". It's a roleplaying game and people should play different roles. It may be the only true roleplaying game, in fact. What I would say, and I think nether void meant, was that if somebody is playing the "bad guy" and trying to prey on me, it is entirely fair that I turn the tables and make mischief back upon him.

Think about this for a minute. How would the can flipper write his petition to CCP? "Hey, I was griefing newbs in this asteroid belt and one of them turned around and griefed me back..." I doubt CCP would punish this offense.

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Originally by: Kilabi

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Edited by: Kilabi on 10/01/2008 17:28:38

If you do it to a ore thief you can say you do it for your own security because he can come back in a better ship to kill you = no griefing only selfdefence in my eyes.


But if you just do it to **** with him = griefing.

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Originally by: Auron Shadowbane

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and finally they can just log out and return 30min later when they dissappeared and their criminal countdown has run out. soe veryone held by this is just plain dumb.

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