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Tech 2 Mining frigates - A Stupid Idea?

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Kathryn Dougans B. S. Radioactive Sheep Farm	Posted - 2008.01.10 21:26:00 - [1] Mining frigates, every race has them, but they don't have a Tech2 variant. What on earth would be the point of T2 mining frigates? Especially when there are barges and exhumers? To operate with much lower risks of being caught and destroyed by hostile forces, but at reduced reward in terms of ore per minute. They would have a small sig radius, making it easier to get past gate camps, maybe even a +1 to warp core strength, making 2 point warp jammers necessary to catch them, further increasing their ability to escape gate camps. This would also allow them a good chance to escape when hostiles warp in on them. They would have good mining yield - although not as much as the smallest barge. Since they'd use ordinary mining lasers rather than strip miners, it's not so bad if you cancel the cycle if you have to warp out. They'd also be a lot cheaper than a hulk, so if they are caught, it's not as big a deal if they're lost. I think this might encourage miners to venture into lowsec, as they would have a much higher chance to get in, get ore and get out, compared to a barge or exhumer. This might help reduce the attitude that lowsec=instant death. If people feel confident to go in and out of lowsec and gain experience in so doing, then they are more likely to think of losses as bad luck rather than a routine occurrence. It might also make piracy more fun, in that it's more of a sense of achievement in catching a target that's a lot more elusive than a barge. The ships might also be useful in 0.0, as economic warfare. Pop the oppositions most valuable asteroids before they can organise a gang to chase you off. This might allow industrial players in alliances to feel like they're directly attacking the opposition and making a useful contribution, which would be good for their morale. I think that's everything, so it's now up to the Eve community to tell me the % composition of fail in this idea.
Captain FletcherMiles	Posted - 2008.01.10 21:26:00 - [2] Theres no point. We already have enought ships ingame esp for miners...
Troye Gallente Strix Armaments and Defence	Posted - 2008.01.10 21:30:00 - [3] Originally by: Captain FletcherMiles Theres no point. We already have enought ships ingame esp for miners... We have enough ships in game full stop. Personaly I'd rather see this than another "support" role ship or more "black ops". Originally by: GM Nova What the hell???
Xaen Caldari Black Podding	Posted - 2008.01.10 21:31:00 - [4] I don't see why not. But the particulars I don't completely agree with. Innate stabs? No. The goal of a t2 mining frigate should be mining, not blockade running. If you want that, mine in a transport ship. The problem is there are too few lowsec areas. They're all crawling with pirates and sociopaths all waiting to pounce on the hapless newbie that wanders in. -- Support fixing the EVE UI \| Suggest Jita fixes
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.01.10 21:46:00 - [5] Edited by: Tarminic on 10/01/2008 21:46:25 What Role would it fill? High-yield, high-resistance mining ships have already been filled by hulks, and mainstream mining ships are generally Mining Barges with each race's mining cruisers as a distant second. So what role would this ship fill? My ideas: -Cheaper and faster than mining barges -Approximately same cargohold as cruisers -Increased survivability compared to larger mining ships How would it fill this role? A frigate's best defense is the ability to remove itself from an engagement and it's small size. It's bonuses would have to aid that. In addition, it should be able to pull in ore approximately equaling that of a cruiser's mining yield. Bonuses Racial Frigate: (same as T1 counterparts, mining yield + cargohold) Elite Racial Frigate: -40% Bonus to mining laser range -5% Reduction in signature radius Role Bonus: -60% Mining laser Capacitor usage Attributes -T2 Resistances -Larger Cargohold -Approximately Same or slightly higher -High CPU (for mining lasers obviously) This gives the ship much more room to mine defensively instead of being chained 10KM to an asteroid. The signature radius reduction works well for interceptors, and the T2 resistance increase it's survivability. Just my 0.02 ISK. ---------------- Tarminic - 31 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.78.2
Lithalnas Amarr Headcrabs	Posted - 2008.01.10 21:53:00 - [6] would be interesting if it could mine directly to compressed ore. ------------- fixed for greater eve content
hilaw	Posted - 2008.01.10 21:59:00 - [7] Small cargohold might kill its ablity to mine in potentialy hostile territory. The whole comprssed ore output thing sounds good, same loot for pirates, less protecting of hauler needed at gates. Was 1 Pixel to big and you had to nerf it, well fixed now
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.01.10 21:59:00 - [8] Hmmm. T2 mining frig I like. Team it up with a blockade runner and ninja mine in 0.0 for the good stuff. Originally by: Richard Phallus Come live with the common idiot, it's more fun down here. I did and got banned.
Isan Danderoda Strix Armaments and Defence	Posted - 2008.01.10 22:05:00 - [9] Honestly I don't think there will ever be something as having enough ships in game. I'd love to see more ships with different roles to keep things mixed up. Miners that can do blockade running or cloaking would be pretty cool. I put this up there with the idea of a dedicated looting/salvaging ship: something that we'd realize was sorely needed as soon as we had it.
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2008.01.10 22:05:00 - [10] Asteroid Assault ship "This vessel is optimized for mining in dangerous areas and brings new key features to the frigate mining profession" Frigate mining bonus: 20% to mining yield and 5% to cargo capacity Asteroid Assault ship bonus: 100% to the ability of sitting in your hanger doing nothing and 100% bonus to bankruptcy rate of owner A T2 mining frigate sounds great in principle just like the way a combat frigate with high resists and more powergrid and hardpoints sounds but look at how AFs turned out. ----------------------------------------------- My new years resolution is to give up nonconstructive posting
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.01.10 22:11:00 - [11] Originally by: Paulo Damarr Asteroid Assault ship bonus: 100% to the ability of sitting in your hanger doing nothing and 100% bonus to bankruptcy rate of owner A T2 mining frigate sounds great in principle just like the way a combat frigate with high resists and more powergrid and hardpoints sounds but look at how AFs turned out. Wait what? Why would it sit in the hanger and bankrupt a player? And AF have the mass of a cruiser and the agility of a bc, thats why they suck. Give it a frigs mass and agility and you would see them all over the place. Originally by: Richard Phallus Come live with the common idiot, it's more fun down here. I did and got banned.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.01.10 22:11:00 - [12] Oooh...imagine a mining frigate that could use covert ops cloaks! ---------------- Tarminic - 31 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.78.2
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2008.01.10 22:18:00 - [13] Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Paulo Damarr Asteroid Assault ship bonus: 100% to the ability of sitting in your hanger doing nothing and 100% bonus to bankruptcy rate of owner A T2 mining frigate sounds great in principle just like the way a combat frigate with high resists and more powergrid and hardpoints sounds but look at how AFs turned out. Wait what? Why would it sit in the hanger and bankrupt a player? And AF have the mass of a cruiser and the agility of a bc, thats why they suck. Give it a frigs mass and agility and you would see them all over the place. Its highly unlikely that they will be superior to a cheap mining cruiser and probably cost more like I said look at AFs and at EVEs current trends hoping for cloaking mining ships etc is not going to happen. ----------------------------------------------- My new years resolution is to give up nonconstructive posting
Kathryn Dougans B. S. Radioactive Sheep Farm	Posted - 2008.01.10 22:18:00 - [14] Originally by: Xaen The problem is there are too few lowsec areas. They're all crawling with pirates and sociopaths. That isn't really the case, but it's a very common opinion. Ships that are sufficiently "greasy" as to avoid capture would give people confidence to try lowsec out themselves. Originally by: Tarminic Oooh...imagine a mining frigate that could use covert ops cloaks! That would really be a ninja miner. Hmm. Could Eve possibly survive if the age-old war between ninjas and pirates reaches it?
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.01.10 22:31:00 - [15] Originally by: Paulo Damarr Its highly unlikely that they will be superior to a cheap mining cruiser and probably cost more like I said look at AFs and at EVEs current trends hoping for cloaking mining ships etc is not going to happen. Mining yeild is not the only thing this idea is for, its also the ability to reach unsafe areas and mine them. I've used plenty of ospreys in low sec to mine and whilst it is good vs the rats its crap vs players. So my only choice is to evade and it does an okay job once your in a belt but I would still get caught out at gates by roving gangs. The T1 mining frigs address this by warping fast like a frig and evading pretty much all the camps but its pitiful yeild and cargo made this ability kinda pointless. So in steps a T2 mining frig with both evasion and yeild. Fills a missing role yes? Originally by: Richard Phallus Come live with the common idiot, it's more fun down here. I did and got banned.
Arana Tellen Gallente The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2008.01.10 22:34:00 - [16] Originally by: Paulo Damarr Asteroid Assault ship "This vessel is optimized for mining in dangerous areas and brings new key features to the frigate mining profession" Frigate mining bonus: 20% to mining yield and 5% to cargo capacity Asteroid Assault ship bonus: 100% to the ability of sitting in your hanger doing nothing and 100% bonus to bankruptcy rate of owner A T2 mining frigate sounds great in principle just like the way a combat frigate with high resists and more powergrid and hardpoints sounds but look at how AFs turned out. It was more the insane increase in mass that hit the AFs hard. --------------------------------- Oh noes!
Dzil	Posted - 2008.01.10 22:35:00 - [17] Originally by: Kathryn Dougans Mining frigates, every race has them, but they don't have a Tech2 variant. What on earth would be the point of T2 mining frigates? Especially when there are barges and exhumers? To operate with much lower risks of being caught and destroyed by hostile forces, but at reduced reward in terms of ore per minute. They would have a small sig radius, making it easier to get past gate camps, maybe even a +1 to warp core strength, making 2 point warp jammers necessary to catch them, further increasing their ability to escape gate camps. This would also allow them a good chance to escape when hostiles warp in on them. They would have good mining yield - although not as much as the smallest barge. Since they'd use ordinary mining lasers rather than strip miners, it's not so bad if you cancel the cycle if you have to warp out. They'd also be a lot cheaper than a hulk, so if they are caught, it's not as big a deal if they're lost. I think this might encourage miners to venture into lowsec, as they would have a much higher chance to get in, get ore and get out, compared to a barge or exhumer. This might help reduce the attitude that lowsec=instant death. If people feel confident to go in and out of lowsec and gain experience in so doing, then they are more likely to think of losses as bad luck rather than a routine occurrence. It might also make piracy more fun, in that it's more of a sense of achievement in catching a target that's a lot more elusive than a barge. The ships might also be useful in 0.0, as economic warfare. Pop the oppositions most valuable asteroids before they can organise a gang to chase you off. This might allow industrial players in alliances to feel like they're directly attacking the opposition and making a useful contribution, which would be good for their morale. I think that's everything, so it's now up to the Eve community to tell me the % composition of fail in this idea. You could probably use the new compression technology to get your fail density down to a reasonable level, but then the thread won't be flame stable.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.01.10 22:41:00 - [18] Originally by: Dzil You could probably use the new compression technology to get your fail density down to a reasonable level, but then the thread won't be flame stable. Sounds like someone doesn't want more mining competition cruising around minin' ur roids in low sec and 0.0. Originally by: Richard Phallus Come live with the common idiot, it's more fun down here. I did and got banned.
RigelKentaurus Flying Tartiflette Caldari Deep Space Industral	Posted - 2008.01.10 22:51:00 - [19] Originally by: Kathryn Dougans They would have good mining yield - although not as much as the smallest barge. Since they'd use ordinary mining lasers rather than strip miners, it's not so bad if you cancel the cycle if you have to warp out. Character with all skills at lvl 5: Navitas + 2 Miner II -> 375m3/min Procurer + Modulated Strip Miner II + T2 Crystals 377m3/min You think you can understand what's wrong with your proposal _________ Someday, EVE may look like this.
Hook1971	Posted - 2008.01.10 23:06:00 - [20] I like the idea. But for those who think we have enough ships in the game, make a special "frigate mining laser module" that you can fit to any frigate already in the game. It cannot be fitted on anything but a frigate and decreases sig radius and increases mining yield.
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2008.01.10 23:33:00 - [21] Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Paulo Damarr Its highly unlikely that they will be superior to a cheap mining cruiser and probably cost more like I said look at AFs and at EVEs current trends hoping for cloaking mining ships etc is not going to happen. Mining yeild is not the only thing this idea is for, its also the ability to reach unsafe areas and mine them. I've used plenty of ospreys in low sec to mine and whilst it is good vs the rats its crap vs players. So my only choice is to evade and it does an okay job once your in a belt but I would still get caught out at gates by roving gangs. The T1 mining frigs address this by warping fast like a frig and evading pretty much all the camps but its pitiful yeild and cargo made this ability kinda pointless. So in steps a T2 mining frig with both evasion and yeild. Fills a missing role yes? No not really because I doubt if such a ship was introduced it would be made significantly better and be worth the investment especially because T2 ships cant get insured properly. The T1 mining frigates with good mining skills can get surprising yields so if your intent on mining in a frigate in risky places your better of using a T1 version and a alt or corp member in a blockade runner and just run for it. The Blockade runner will get away and if your frigate doesn't well its only 200,000 ISK gone pop. I like the idea of a T2 mining frigate but I really cant see them being designed with any abilities either mining cruisers or T1 frigs dont already have. ----------------------------------------------- My new years resolution is to give up nonconstructive posting
Yohanes Flame Point-Zero SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.10 23:37:00 - [22] I could be wrong but wouldn't that just allow for faster macro mining? ____________________________ One Thead to rule them all - Boot.ini pre-patch thread
Alora Venoda Caldari GalTech Giant Space Amoeba	Posted - 2008.01.10 23:54:00 - [23] a "salvage barge" would be much more of a useful addition imo. basically it would be similar to a mining barge is size and shape, but it would specialize in collecting wrecks. it would get bonuses to tractor beams, or maybe instead have the ability to fit "medium tractor beams" or something with longer range. obviously it would need 8 high slots, or instead the ability to use some new tractor/salvager combo module. it would also get bonuses to salvage success, and maybe even salvager range. cargo space should be large enough to hold a good amount of loot, but not as much as an industrial. skills required would be a similar level to mining barges. ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ Take away the risk and it would make flying around in space utterly pointless. Take away the flying around part and you make EVE into a space themed spreadsheet application.
Tendu	Posted - 2008.01.11 04:18:00 - [24] /signed I would LOVE a T2 Mining Frigate. Plenty of things to mine in Low Sec and not enough crazy to go there (again lost 20M yesterday in 0.3...and i start playing 6 weeks ago, so ....bah i am poor and sad now ) We need ship with BIG warping ability (fast and VERY hard to stop), same yield as Osprey (or more), like 800-1200m3 of cargo and compressed ore ability (1/10 will be perfect)....to avoid Empire AFK miner maybe compressing only rare ore. Anyway i WANT to go in low sec.....but i won't never again until CCP will give us a chance to stay alive more then 5mn. The other way around can be anti-warping module be nerfed (like random failure every 30sec for a random time, due to heat). KILL THE PIRATES :
Tendu	Posted - 2008.01.11 04:20:00 - [25] Alora, why "instead", what about a salvage barge AND a T2 mining Frig ??
Agguire	Posted - 2008.01.11 04:27:00 - [26] What about using the mining cruisers each race gets? Throw a cloak on there with some cargo expanders and you have a cheap lowsec miner that can hold a decent amount. Have not tried this yet. Last time I went to lowsec to mine I was attacked before I even got to the roid to target it. System was clear 30sec before.
Nova Fox	Posted - 2008.01.11 04:57:00 - [27] Toss in other resourcing bonuses such as gas cloud mining and salvaging might make it something or a new module such as a modulated miner that the barges cant use, another bonus would be ore size reduction per level instead of larger cargo bays (prevents abuse of cargo xport).
Sekket Caldari White-Noise	Posted - 2008.01.11 04:59:00 - [28] Assault Frigate Boost Incoming!
Cedori Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.01.11 05:59:00 - [29] Edited by: Cedori on 11/01/2008 06:01:21 Actually, this is a very interesting idea, and I like it . . . I'd never use it, but I like it! A ship like this, if done properly could easily make the RvR in Lowsec more reasonable, making it more used, at least by miners. Haul ore/minerals in a blockade runner, and ninja-mine in a T2 mining frig. Enough tank to take anything in low-sec, and even wussy 0.0, bonuses to mining yield, resists, and agility, a decent sized cargohold(enough for 2-3 cycles of ore) and the ship becomes viable. It wouldn't replace Hulks in Hi-sec or 0.0, but it might make low-sec mining viable. Which should also make the yaar-crowd happy. Sure these would be fairly hard to catch, but they are catchable, and if RvR of low-sec mining is viable then more folks will venture out into low-sec to mine, which means more targets for those that yaar. And if they cost about 10ish million isk(similar to an AF), then the cost of loosing one isn't nearly has painful as a Hulk, so those full-time carebears that are trying out low-sec might realize that pvp isn't nearly as bad as it's made out to be! Hell, they might even really enjoy it, or enjoy dodging it so much that the venture out of the world of carebear stare This post represents the views of me, myself, and I. Nothing said should be attributed to my corp or alliance, otherwise I might be whipped with a strand of wet-spaghetti!
Thornat	Posted - 2008.01.11 07:12:00 - [30] I like this idea a lot, I don't know about the specific balancing but we already have very nice Tech I mining frigates like the Navitas for Gallente as an example. As a newbie I used that one quite often to sneak into low sec and mine at high risk and for a time it was well worth the risk to me as I was able to get quite a bit better then most of my friends who didn't take the risk. The problem eventually became that the Navitas simply didn't get enough mining bonus so switching to a normal mining barge became an obvious choice leading me back to Empire unwilingly despite what I really wanted which was to do null sec mining. Ultimatly this is what lead me to getting out of mining all together. It was too boring to mine in High Sec and far too risky to mine in low sec in a mining barge, and quite impossible to get into 0.0 with a mining barge at least without a considerable amount of help. I would say a Tech II mining Frigate (say a T2 version of the Navitas) should be designed in such a fashion that a loan wolf could get in and out of 0.0 much the same way you can do it in an interceptor able to mine and return to empire. The only issue that I see is that ultimatly it could become a useless/unused ship only because although there are plenty of ships that CAN break gate camps, there are very very few people using them for that purpose. It would seem you can't get a carebear out of high sec no matter how tempting and easy you make getting into low sec and 0.0 so I don't see how yet another blockade runner would do any good. Plus its worth noting that this would still be a newbie ship, I mean an experianced player would probobly never bother solo mining, I mean most of us are in corps and alliances and there is always someone ready to help out if your going to do any kind op. So this should really would be for newbies and carebears.

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