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Tech 2 Mining frigates - A Stupid Idea?

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Joe Starbreaker Starbreaker Spaceways	Posted - 2008.01.11 08:44:00 - [31] How about as a kind of "Mining Foreman Frigate" that gives bonuses to others in a mining fleet? So... less mining ability than a Retriever, but in a gang of noobs with miningcruisers, would more than pull its weight. This might be something that CEOs of highsec corps (who aren't really that into mining) might train up for, and still find fun to use for corp ops. Maybe they wouldn't even have mining lasers but instead would have some kind of scanners to look for pirates and electronic countermeasures to repel rats?
Shismo	Posted - 2008.01.11 10:24:00 - [32] Edited by: Shismo on 11/01/2008 10:24:48 Give it a special 10km3 cargo hold that only holds ore, make it mine as well as a mining cruiser. The main problem with low sec mining is that in order to mine you need to jetcan. This requires a much more permanent presence than is desirable in low sec. As a miner, the only thing that would get me into low sec to solo mine, is if i could keep all my ore internally. And currently its more profitable to mine in high sec than to jump back and forth between a station after every single cycle. Infact, screw t2 mining friagtes. Just give ALL mining ships a special secondary cargo hold that ONLY holds ore. Mining frigates - 5k m3 Mining cruisers - 10k m3 Barges - 15k 20k and 25k Exhumers - 20k 20k and 30k
Lil'Red Ridin'Hood Snake Assault	Posted - 2008.01.11 10:58:00 - [33] Originally by: Xaen The problem is there are too few lowsec areas. They're all crawling with pirates and sociopaths all waiting to pounce on the hapless newbie that wanders in. This made me chuckle. Have you ever actually been to low-sec? Or only heard of it in local? Plenty of empty space to go around, just try to avoid the shortest route from Jita.
Voodoo Dog Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2008.01.11 11:08:00 - [34] Quote: a "salvage barge" would be much more of a useful addition imo. I like this
Shismo	Posted - 2008.01.11 11:14:00 - [35] Originally by: Voodoo Dog Quote: a "salvage barge" would be much more of a useful addition imo. I like this Then what would destroyers be used for?

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2008.01.11 11:17:00 - [36] While I'm always supportive of new mining stuff... I must say I WANT ORCA NOW!! But ok I can take a frig too Secure 3rd party service ■ the Love project

SketS	Posted - 2008.01.11 11:26:00 - [37] /signed I like the idea for more than one reasons. It does not make a lot of isk lets be honest if you only have 400 to 600 cargospace. But than again the risk of losing is lower aswell. And lets not forget this could be a good thing for alliances/corps who are at war they will have the ability to let the mineral flow continue for the warmachine if not in the same amount as with barges and exhumers ofc It will be a somewhat unneeded mini profession but thats exactly what makes it fun. Its not needed nor extremely usefull... its a new way to pass the time from time to time
Sam Browne Freelancing Corp Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2008.01.11 12:13:00 - [38] I really like this idea. I use currently use the trusty Osprey for Low-sec mining, but will never say no to further options and this one sounds good. Would suggest rock-squashing rather than bigger cargo bays, keeping it within the niche of specialization it is intended for. Additionally, I'd probably prefer such a ship for Explo Grav sites in 0.2 etc where you just know someone is looking for you FS May you live slightly longer than those you fight.
Ris Dnalor Minmatar Ama-gi	Posted - 2008.01.11 12:13:00 - [39] why a frigate? just give us mining fighters for the carriers ;) -- No love for the Matari
Windryder New Fnord Industries Black Scope Project	Posted - 2008.01.11 12:29:00 - [40] Originally by: Kathryn Dougans Edited by: Kathryn Dougans on 10/01/2008 22:43:38 Edited by: Kathryn Dougans on 10/01/2008 22:41:40 Mining frigates, every race has them, but they don't have a Tech2 variant. Actually I know of one that already exists... In the system of KAMOKOR, in the region of LONETREK there is a beacon called "State Data Center". If you visit this beacon you will find a whole fleet of "Agents In Space". One of the Level 1 agents is flying a ship that looks like a Tech 2 Bantam and the Info Panel for it lists it as a "Sparrow". It is DEFINITELY NOT a Bantam though. This little baby has what is obviously a small container slung beneath it, and has a T2 Caldari paint-scheme. Go have a look. It's way cool.
Thenoran Caldari Frontier Economics Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.01.11 12:41:00 - [41] Mining in low-sec just ain't worth it.
Shevar Minmatar A.W.M Ka-Tet	Posted - 2008.01.11 12:44:00 - [42] Back in 2003/2004 orso they showed the tech2 models for probes and bantams and such (supposedly for mining morphite efficiently). But I guess these frigates have been canned in favour for the barges. --- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
SiJira	Posted - 2008.01.11 18:48:00 - [43] i support this idea Trashed sig, Shark was here
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.01.12 02:44:00 - [44] Originally by: Thenoran Mining in low-sec just ain't worth it. Why? Because its not the top isk high end ore like in 0.0? It's certainly better isk than empire mining and there are stations to dock at and refine to boot. The problem with low sec/0.0 minng is that its too easy to gank miners in anything but a t1 mining frig and as stated thats not really an option due to the low yield. I'd love to move back into low sec but my poor osprey just can't hack all the new fangled gate camping tools the pirates have so why not give us poor miners who by the way supply all the minerals for your pretty gank ships to have a chance to actually mine. Originally by: Richard Phallus Come live with the common idiot, it's more fun down here. I did and got banned.
SiJira	Posted - 2008.01.13 00:48:00 - [45] im sure you would see a lot of people flying them if they were implemented right Trashed sig, Shark was here
Stakhanov Metafarmers	Posted - 2008.01.13 01:15:00 - [46] A mining frigate with bonus to cloaked velocity , 3 highs / 2 turrets (bigger bonus) 1 mid and 3 lows , should work out fine... no resists at all , just a high agility. Originally by: CCP Mitnal Thread now lacks an OP but the memories will live on.
Del Narveux Dukes of Hazard	Posted - 2008.01.13 03:06:00 - [47] A mining frigate would be a really bad idea, quite simply theres no point. Specifically, heres the problems I see with a T2 mining frigate: -Extremely expensive compared to t1 barges, and not all that great compared to exhumers either considering that since there's no BPO handouts anymore the prices will be jacked up like EAFs. -Low yield would make them suck vs barges in highsec -Low-ish cargo space would make them suck vs anything in lowsec/.0 ninja. Mining is all good and well, but if you cant carry the ore its not so useful... -Lowsec ore isnt that much better than highsec when accounting for all the intangibles, particularly if you ditch your strip-mining barge for a little frigate. This is the same logic behind the failure of using high-QL agents to lure mission runners to lowsec. That all being said, I do agree that the non-combat professions need some ship hulls (particularly miniprofessions). But the benefits of a T2 mining frig just dont overcome the negatives. Maybe a cruiser or something. _________________ [SAK] Alumnus--And Proud Of It! -- aka Cpt Bogus Is that my torped sig cloaking your base? Originally by: Wrangler Well, at least we have forum PvP..
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.01.13 03:14:00 - [48] Originally by: Del Narveux A mining frigate would be a really bad idea, quite simply theres no point. Specifically, heres the problems I see with a T2 mining frigate: -Extremely expensive compared to t1 barges, and not all that great compared to exhumers either considering that since there's no BPO handouts anymore the prices will be jacked up like EAFs. -Low yield would make them suck vs barges in highsec -Low-ish cargo space would make them suck vs anything in lowsec/.0 ninja. Mining is all good and well, but if you cant carry the ore its not so useful... -Lowsec ore isnt that much better than highsec when accounting for all the intangibles, particularly if you ditch your strip-mining barge for a little frigate. This is the same logic behind the failure of using high-QL agents to lure mission runners to lowsec. That all being said, I do agree that the non-combat professions need some ship hulls (particularly miniprofessions). But the benefits of a T2 mining frig just dont overcome the negatives. Maybe a cruiser or something. You missed the whole point of a T2 mining frig. Better yield than the T1 version hopefully as good as a cruiser/med barge and the ability to evade gate camps. Yes the cruisers and barges have good to excellent yield but unfortunatly will get caught every time at a camp or even in the belts if your not eyeing local like a hawk and your hunter has some skill. As it stands low sec has the biggest roids in the game due to the fact noone ever mines the damn things. We need something a couple of people could ninja into low sec with and get some of the high end minerals not available in high sec like zyd and nonlol amounts of nox. A T2 mining frig and a T2 blockade runner could pull some impressive amounts of isk out of low sec if only the T2 mining frig existed. Originally by: Richard Phallus Come live with the common idiot, it's more fun down here. I did and got banned.
Typheonic Gallente Astrum Contract Services Group	Posted - 2008.01.30 15:50:00 - [49] I like the idea of a T2 mining frigate, but I am not sure low-sec mining is worth all this effort. The reasons why low-sec mining is not very profitable right now are time on task and the mineral market. Right now many of the low-end minerals are worth more than anything mid-ranged you might get from low-sec. Combine that with the fact that low-sec involves constant interruption because of roaming PvP'ers and you get the situation you have today. Even if a ship was sufficiently slippery to evade pirates you still spend more time with evasion than actually mining. The only way I can see to deal with that is to make yield enormous, but then you would again be inclined to take that huge yield to high-sec where you can mine unfettered and interrupted. If I were to design a T2 mining frigate though it would have assault frigate like resists, a mining laser yield bonus, and a large cargo hold. I would much prefer though to have a redesigned Skiff or Procurer that was basically a ship built around a strip miner that had light cruiser agility, the current cargo space, and a range bonus to strip miners instead of the Mercoxit yield bonus. Built in warp core strength like blockade runners might be nice as well, but I would settle for a lower signature radius similar to frigates.
Andreask14 Alterum - Infinitus - Fabula Dragons Of Oceans	Posted - 2008.01.30 15:58:00 - [50] A tech 2 mining frig would be as useful as the Procurer. Also, btw, CCP doesnt want low sec to be populated, they want 0.0 to be the main playground, as proven by the removal of high ice and ore from low sec. Just learn to live with the low sec target drought and keep ganking newbie t1 haulers.
Ursula LeGuinn Versus Gloria Omnis	Posted - 2008.01.30 16:15:00 - [51] Tech II mining frigates would not work for the intended purpose. I can only assume that this idea is bandied about by people who have no clue about mining. The ore in lowsec simply isn't valuable enough to mine with a frigate, even a T2 frigate. You can make far more ISK mining Veldspar and Kernite with a Covetor or Hulk in highsec than you ever could mining with a Retriever in lowsec, and from the OP's description, the supposed T2 frigates don't mine nearly as much as a Retriever. Moreover, how you gonna haul that ore mining in lowsec with a tiny cargo hold? A huge, slow industrial ship? Yeah. Also, if people want increased rewards for mining, they can make arrangements in nullsec and mine there, where the rewards are much better and it's actually much safer than lowsec in many cases. Bottom line: It would take a miracle to make people want to conduct business in lowsec, as opposed to highsec and nullsec. Highsec = low rewards but extremely safe, nullsec = very high rewards, but still pretty safe, and lowsec = medium rewards, but completely unsafe. You do the math. ________________
Anstarius'as'kal'thoras Amarr Spirits of Xen	Posted - 2008.01.30 16:37:00 - [52] the problem with your suggestion (of any kind of t2 mining frig) is that it crosses ccps vision of mining. 1.) CCP wants to move mining into hidden belts in the longrun. This alone should make it more secure and will require a prober for the real juicy belts i guess. Hence remove all reasons for a fast moving ninja miner. 2.) Mining profit. Profit in mining is raised from dull permanent chaining of low worth ore. Unlike ratting where "2 mins" actually generate the cash while the rest is warping and relocating mining is more a constant stream of isk per sec. Unless ore and mineral prices change drastically back to 2003 values, its hardly worth ninjaing compared to lvl4 running or other money printing ventures. isk and timewise.
Typheonic Gallente Astrum Contract Services Group	Posted - 2008.01.30 16:38:00 - [53] Originally by: Ursula LeGuinn Tech II mining frigates would not work for the intended purpose. I can only assume that this idea is bandied about by people who have no clue about mining. The ore in lowsec simply isn't valuable enough to mine with a frigate, even a T2 frigate. You can make far more ISK mining Veldspar and Kernite with a Covetor or Hulk in highsec than you ever could mining with a Retriever in lowsec, and from the OP's description, the supposed T2 frigates don't mine nearly as much as a Retriever. Moreover, how you gonna haul that ore mining in lowsec with a tiny cargo hold? A huge, slow industrial ship? Yeah. Also, if people want increased rewards for mining, they can make arrangements in nullsec and mine there, where the rewards are much better and it's actually much safer than lowsec in many cases. Bottom line: It would take a miracle to make people want to conduct business in lowsec, as opposed to highsec and nullsec. Highsec = low rewards but extremely safe, nullsec = very high rewards, but still pretty safe, and lowsec = medium rewards, but completely unsafe. You do the math. This is essentially correct. Adding T2 mining frigates or some other mining ship with enhanced survivability and different ores that have perhaps a higher mineral density/yield than those found in high-sec might make low-sec a bit more viable. The different ores idea touched on in this devblog might be the way to go to improve mining prospects in low-sec. If you can find variations of veldspar, plagioclase, and/or kernite that provide a major improvement in yield per cubic meter over current ore types it would be worth it to use a frigate to mine in low-sec.
Typheonic Gallente Astrum Contract Services Group	Posted - 2008.01.30 16:51:00 - [54] Originally by: Anstarius'as'kal'thoras the problem with your suggestion (of any kind of t2 mining frig) is that it crosses ccps vision of mining. 1.) CCP wants to move mining into hidden belts in the longrun. This alone should make it more secure and will require a prober for the real juicy belts i guess. Hence remove all reasons for a fast moving ninja miner. Hidden belts are not at all secure, and moving to hidden belts everywhere for mining will likely not improve the situation. Since CCP changed exploration belts to non-deadspace areas they have become as easy as a safe spot to probe out. As it is pirates have adapted and are more than likely to have one or more probe capable pilots within their ranks. More survivability is still desperately needed for a ship to mine in low-sec. Originally by: Anstarius'as'kal'thoras 2.) Mining profit. Profit in mining is raised from dull permanent chaining of low worth ore. Unlike ratting where "2 mins" actually generate the cash while the rest is warping and relocating mining is more a constant stream of isk per sec. Unless ore and mineral prices change drastically back to 2003 values, its hardly worth ninjaing compared to lvl4 running or other money printing ventures. isk and timewise. I think you misunderstand the likely uses of a T2 mining frigate. This ship would not be focused on ninjaing small amounts of ultra valuable ore. Instead it would just give a miner a fighting chance to escape and evade a potential threat. As it is even a Hulk has the tank of a soggy paper bag and the align and acceleration time of a pregnant yak. If you can address either or both of those issues while giving a reasonable mining yield it does open up possibilities.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.01.30 16:53:00 - [55] Two words... COMET MINING /thread 1\|2\|3\|4\|5.
Angel DeMorphis Gallente	Posted - 2008.01.30 16:54:00 - [56] The problem with mining in low sec is not the lack of a decent ship to do it in. My Osprey can mine more than a Procurer, and slightly less than my Retriever (Osprey with T2 Mining Lasers, Retriever only T1 Strip Miners). It does a decent job of solo mining, as long as you pay attention to local, use your scanner, stay aligned, and all that jazz. The problem with mining in low sec is that the ore that you can find in low sec is not as profitable as the high sec ores, such as Veldspar and Scordite, atm. Jaspet is a joke, Hemorphite and Hedgerbite are only just matching Veldspar and Scordite in terms of ISK/minute (well, haven't done the calculations in the last couple weeks, but last I checked this was all true). You have to get down to Gneiss to start getting better profits than high sec mining, and I wouldn't touch Spodumain with a 15 km pole. One benefit of low sec is that kernite is more plentiful, as there aren't people to mine it out just hours after it respawns in low sec. My sig taken from this site. [IMAGE REMOVED]
Anstarius'as'kal'thoras Amarr Spirits of Xen	Posted - 2008.01.30 17:12:00 - [57] Originally by: Typheonic I think you misunderstand the likely uses of a T2 mining frigate. This ship would not be focused on ninjaing small amounts of ultra valuable ore. Instead it would just give a miner a fighting chance to escape and evade a potential threat. As it is even a Hulk has the tank of a soggy paper bag and the align and acceleration time of a pregnant yak. If you can address either or both of those issues while giving a reasonable mining yield it does open up possibilities. I dont see ccp build a ship with unrealistic figures. Small size, huge cargobay, small signature radius etc. What you would be looking at would be a blockade runner mining ship with severe yield bonus. However that has nothing to do with a frig. Remember even the t2 battleships got realtively small cargospace compared to what you are asking for a frig. Realistic on a frig would be what 500 m3 ? (like a t1 mining cruiser) So its more or less ninja / shortterm, especially if the tank on a frig sucks in general.
Seeing EyeDog	Posted - 2008.01.30 17:15:00 - [58] this post and your idea both have something in common.... large wastes of time and resources. _____________________ Originally by: Locus Bey Intelligence isn't a prequisite for being a Goon, in fact its a deficit.
Typheonic Gallente Astrum Contract Services Group	Posted - 2008.01.30 18:58:00 - [59] Originally by: Anstarius'as'kal'thoras I dont see ccp build a ship with unrealistic figures. Small size, huge cargobay, small signature radius etc. What you would be looking at would be a blockade runner mining ship with severe yield bonus. However that has nothing to do with a frig. Remember even the t2 battleships got realtively small cargospace compared to what you are asking for a frig. Realistic on a frig would be what 500 m3 ? (like a t1 mining cruiser) So its more or less ninja / shortterm, especially if the tank on a frig sucks in general. I don't think CCP is going to give us a solo low-sec mining pwnmobile either. This is why I suggested something based on the Procurer/Skiff as opposed to the mining frigates. Looking at the Skiff it is almost there. It has a reasonable cargo bay, mounts an OK tank for low-sec work against NPCs, and has a decent, but not great yield. I would see the variant of this sacrificing some of that cargo space for more agility. Dropping the Mercoxit bonuses for either slightly better yield, better resists, or strip miner range. You could end up with a barge/frigate hybrid that has a better chance at evasion then what we have today without destroying balance.
Donna Maria Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.30 20:29:00 - [60] Friends, How many of us have the... Just join a mining corp, plenty of them around. Do mining ops with your CORP... Im the girl momma warned you about..

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