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Is the Raven still the Undisputed King of Missioning?

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Mazakura Republic University	Posted - 2008.01.10 22:06:00 - [1] Topic says it all. Even with the torp changes, aren't most people just changing over to cruise missles? I'm about to start up a pure mission runner. Is the raven still the undisputed king of missioning? (Yes, Level 3-5). Are there any ships that can compare to the speed and npc killing power of a raven spewing out loads and loads of cruise missles? To make a discussion out of this, I hear the typhoon is now a great ship but still doesn't compare to the good old proven raven.
Mazakura Republic University	Posted - 2008.01.10 22:20:00 - [2] Moved to ships. Sorry Mods. :(
William Ortega Grave Diggers Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.10 22:55:00 - [3] level 3-4 yes. Level 5 no (you need a passive tank in those, so nighthawks are it + a company... l5s are very hard solo) -Willy
Miki Sawaguchi	Posted - 2008.01.10 23:28:00 - [4] Edited by: Miki Sawaguchi on 10/01/2008 23:30:01 Id be interested in seeing a setup for a raven too.. mission running is something I'm getting into now. Im looking at http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=294722 right now.. dunno what all the abbreviations are tho LOL.
Iracham Gallente	Posted - 2008.01.10 23:55:00 - [5] Having flown both a prenerf torp Raven and cruise Raven , I will always prefer the Dominix or the Ishtar; Unless you can afford a Gist XL booster or Pith large booster, the exigencies of capacitor use when shield tanking, sucks.
Helen Eve Innovative Technologies	Posted - 2008.01.11 00:08:00 - [6] I'd say this entirely depends on who you run missions for. If Amarr I'd say Raven is entirely outclassed by the Abaddon due to the rats you get and the Abaddon's damage. If you wanna talk faction ships then Nightmare > CNR for Amarr mission running. It does good for the odd gurista/angel missions too but just takes a couple more vollies. Top Tip - Don't eat yellow snow
Mangus Thermopyle Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.01.11 08:25:00 - [7] Raven is probably the all around best nonfaction BS for lvl4 missions, and its also very skill friendly. You dont need 10m SP to use it effectively. And once you get skills and ISK, you can either go to Golem or CNR. Having said that, I do some missions faster in my 950 DPS domi, but I have max skills and lots of experiece running lvl4.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.01.11 09:53:00 - [8] Originally by: Iracham Having flown both a prenerf torp Raven and cruise Raven , I will always prefer the Dominix or the Ishtar; Unless you can afford a Gist XL booster or Pith large booster, the exigencies of capacitor use when shield tanking, sucks. Having run a Dominix with a Gallente specced character and a Raven with a Caldari specced, I think your shield tanking skills are sub par. My cruise raven can run all mssions with ease with a T2/named fit.
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.11 10:24:00 - [9] Edited by: Andrue on 11/01/2008 10:24:48 If you are missioning to maximise Isk/hour or for the fun of it the Raven is probably still the king but it's expensive to get it well pimped out. If you want a safer, more relaxed mission experience I would suggest the Nighthawk. With good skills it gets surprisingly close to the CNR for mission duration and with a passive or semi-passive tank it's immune to disconnects and distractions. With faction gear it is a true 23/7 tank that can handle virtually all L4s without firing a shot. One or two (AE4 bonus and perhaps EA5/5) might need you to make at least a token attempt to reduce the opposition but most of them can't blow you up even with full-aggro and everything present from warp in. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Kira's Shadow	Posted - 2008.01.11 10:37:00 - [10] Originally by: Andrue Edited by: Andrue on 11/01/2008 10:24:48 If you are missioning to maximise Isk/hour or for the fun of it the Raven is probably still the king but it's expensive to get it well pimped out. If you want a safer, more relaxed mission experience I would suggest the Nighthawk. With good skills it gets surprisingly close to the CNR for mission duration and with a passive or semi-passive tank it's immune to disconnects and distractions. The CNR/Golem is outclassed by the Nightmare, Paladin or Kronos, however, and not by a small margin. It takes lots of sp to be able to fly and choose which one you'll use according to npc type, however.

Qui Shon	Posted - 2008.01.11 10:55:00 - [11] Originally by: Kira's Shadow The CNR/Golem is outclassed by the Nightmare, Paladin or Kronos, however, and not by a small margin. It takes lots of sp to be able to fly and choose which one you'll use according to npc type, however. Hardly. Every other weapon system (cept proj) are limited in damage type, and this is the true strenght of the cnr/golem, along with long range and lack of tracking. Yes, laserboats can beat cnr/golem for EM weak rats, and Kronos, even Domi can beat them for some missions against some enemies, but if it's one ship for all missions, CNR/Golem are still Kings of the Hill.
Kira's Shadow	Posted - 2008.01.11 12:40:00 - [12] Originally by: Qui Shon Originally by: Kira's Shadow The CNR/Golem is outclassed by the Nightmare, Paladin or Kronos, however, and not by a small margin. It takes lots of sp to be able to fly and choose which one you'll use according to npc type, however. Hardly. Every other weapon system (cept proj) are limited in damage type, and this is the true strenght of the cnr/golem, along with long range and lack of tracking. Yes, laserboats can beat cnr/golem for EM weak rats, and Kronos, even Domi can beat them for some missions against some enemies, but if it's one ship for all missions, CNR/Golem are still Kings of the Hill. Maybe my post wasn't as clear as I wanted to. A player capable of flying both a Paladin/Nightmare and a Kronos will have a good damage type coverage, and be far more efficient than a player with a Golem/CNR. Missile boats are polyvalent, and good for a player with little isks, but as far as pure efficiency goes, they aren't kings of the hills. far from it.
Arrs Grazznic Poena Executive Solutions	Posted - 2008.01.11 13:08:00 - [13] Originally by: Mazakura Is the raven still the undisputed king of missioning? It really depends upon your fittings! Cheers, Arrs
Qui Shon	Posted - 2008.01.11 14:00:00 - [14] Originally by: Kira's Shadow Maybe my post wasn't as clear as I wanted to. A player capable of flying both a Paladin/Nightmare and a Kronos will have a good damage type coverage, and be far more efficient than a player with a Golem/CNR. Missile boats are polyvalent, and good for a player with little isks, but as far as pure efficiency goes, they aren't kings of the hills. far from it. Two specialized tools can beat one universal tool? Yeah, sure, no arguments there. Though you've still got Angels to think about. Imho, naming a "King of the Hill" mission ship, doesn't mean a ship that is awesome for half or one third of the missions out there, nor does it mean naming multiple ships as a co-op effort and that group of ships King of the Hill. In my view, such a title is clearly shared by CNR/Golem, depending on your preferences, and I don't mean using both ships, but that they are very close to each other in performance over a wide range of missions. Optimally, if I had the skills and isk, I'd have the Nightmare for EM/Therm, Domi for Therm/Kin, maybe Kronos for Kin/Therm and CNR/Golem for Angels (haven't even looked at Mach potential). But really, you'd have to divide it up by individual mission to get the bestest most optimal tool for each individual job.
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.11 15:24:00 - [15] Edited by: Andrue on 11/01/2008 15:24:24 Originally by: Qui Shon Imho, naming a "King of the Hill" mission ship, doesn't mean a ship that is awesome for half or one third of the missions out there, nor does it mean naming multiple ships as a co-op effort and that group of ships King of the Hill. Ack. King of The Hill (to me) means being as close as possible to a 'Swiss army knife'. It means one ship that will service all your needs without significant compromise. Where it has become a little unclear is with the Golem. Its ability to salvage complicates the comparison. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.01.11 16:43:00 - [16] I love my tempest more than my raven :) _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries	Posted - 2008.01.11 19:57:00 - [17] Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 11/01/2008 20:01:47 Originally by: Andrue Edited by: Andrue on 11/01/2008 15:24:24 Originally by: Qui Shon Imho, naming a "King of the Hill" mission ship, doesn't mean a ship that is awesome for half or one third of the missions out there, nor does it mean naming multiple ships as a co-op effort and that group of ships King of the Hill. Ack. King of The Hill (to me) means being as close as possible to a 'Swiss army knife'. It means one ship that will service all your needs without significant compromise. Where it has become a little unclear is with the Golem. Its ability to salvage complicates the comparison. The golems inability to salvage efficiently really does little to make it better. What really complicates the comparison is its ability to easily fit T2 Siege and throw jav torps out to 65km... There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
Hie Loe Gallente Intergalactic Science LLC	Posted - 2008.01.12 02:06:00 - [18] The Raven is only considered King of the Hill because so many players choose caldari and its so easy to get in to. A well fitted Domi flown by a skilled pilot is a better mission ship... Any type of damage can be done. No ammo costs if you are smart and don't lose drones. Able to salvage on the fly. Faster. Tanks like a brute with rigs, can even afk some missions. Domi ftw. It's best ship in the game. You know it, you love it, the Dominix. HL I want a better signature.
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.01.12 10:27:00 - [19] Originally by: Leandro Salazar The golems inability to salvage efficiently really does little to make it better. What really complicates the comparison is its ability to easily fit T2 Siege and throw jav torps out to 65km... CNR can do the same. You will just need officer RCU to pull it off. Golem can do it without going nuts with faction fittings tho. Those Javelins are actually quite viable option even for skilled pilot, but you will need to refit with cruise for approx half missions (where 65 km will not quite cut it in effective way) Originally by: Hie Loe The Raven is only considered King of the Hill because so many players choose caldari and its so easy to get in to. A well fitted Domi flown by a skilled pilot is a better mission ship... Any type of damage can be done. No ammo costs if you are smart and don't lose drones. Able to salvage on the fly. Faster. Tanks like a brute with rigs, can even afk some missions. Domi ftw. It's best ship in the game. You know it, you love it, the Dominix. HL Would really like to see you beat my gank CNR speedwise with Domi ;) Who knows - perhaps it's even possible, altho I personally find it highly unlikely.
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries	Posted - 2008.01.12 12:13:00 - [20] Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 12/01/2008 12:15:03 Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 12/01/2008 12:13:40 Originally by: Carniflex Originally by: Leandro Salazar The golems inability to salvage efficiently really does little to make it better. What really complicates the comparison is its ability to easily fit T2 Siege and throw jav torps out to 65km... CNR can do the same. You will just need officer RCU to pull it off. Golem can do it without going nuts with faction fittings tho. Those Javelins are actually quite viable option even for skilled pilot, but you will need to refit with cruise for approx half missions (where 65 km will not quite cut it in effective way) Well, my EFT CNR atm has 899.61/900 CPU used with the most CPU efficient fitting I can come up with. And it has an empty high. And it does not have enough calibration to fit two Hydraulic Bay Thruster IIs. Nor does it have room for an AB in the mids. It does have more dps though, which might compensate for the more limited range and speed. And at least for my Amarr missions, 65km range seems to be just about sufficient. There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones

Iracham Gallente	Posted - 2008.01.12 17:51:00 - [21] Originally by: Hie Loe The Raven is only considered King of the Hill because so many players choose caldari and its so easy to get in to. A well fitted Domi flown by a skilled pilot is a better mission ship... Any type of damage can be done. No ammo costs if you are smart and don't lose drones. Able to salvage on the fly. Faster. Tanks like a brute with rigs, can even afk some missions. Domi ftw. It's best ship in the game. You know it, you love it, the Dominix. HL This man knows what he's talking about.
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.01.12 19:28:00 - [22] Originally by: Iracham Originally by: Hie Loe ... A well fitted Domi flown by a skilled pilot is a better mission ship... ... Faster. ... Domi ftw. It's best ship in the game. You know it, you love it, the Dominix. HL This man knows what he's talking about. In this case I would really be interested in some sample numbers for mission completion times. You know, just to compare them with my own. If they are faster than mine then I'm willing to siwtch to domi without blinking twice. Hell, show me anything thats faster than CNR on average over whole mission range offered by level 4 agents and I'm going straight for it. I'm not on agenda about raven superiority, just curious about those statements as perhaps my approach to missions is not the most effective and there is something else, in this case domi, that might give me better isk/h. It's not like I do missions for fun.
Tribunal FIRMA	Posted - 2008.01.12 20:13:00 - [23] I will time my next mission. With 5 350s and a set of sent drones rats die very, very fast. "We can't all be heroes, because somebody has to sit on the curb and applaud when they go by."
Karan Kaldarian Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.01.12 20:43:00 - [24] Edited by: Karan Kaldarian on 12/01/2008 20:44:28 Originally by: Hie Loe The Raven is only considered King of the Hill because so many players choose caldari and its so easy to get in to. A well fitted Domi flown by a skilled pilot is a better mission ship... Any type of damage can be done. No ammo costs if you are smart and don't lose drones. Able to salvage on the fly. Faster. Tanks like a brute with rigs, can even afk some missions. Domi ftw. It's best ship in the game. You know it, you love it, the Dominix. HL I fly Raven , Rattle , Drake and Nighthawk , never flown a Dominix and Cnr. What do you fit in highs? Problem that every mission runner must resolve is the low cargo bay : 600, 650 m¦ are not enough. I am not able to decide in seconds what is the market value profitable for picking or not the loot and there are hundreds of items. Golem give a nice advantage on this , but you must know what to pick and what to leave. I think that Rattle could be slight better than Cnr (1500 shield more and 1 low slot more), but in terms of time to complete mission (salvaging and looting) Golem should be faster.
Tribunal FIRMA	Posted - 2008.01.12 21:31:00 - [25] Use another ship for looting and salvaging after you completed the mission. "We can't all be heroes, because somebody has to sit on the curb and applaud when they go by."
Helen Eve Innovative Technologies	Posted - 2008.01.12 22:34:00 - [26] Originally by: Karan Kaldarian I think that Rattle could be slight better than Cnr (1500 shield more and 1 low slot more), but in terms of time to complete mission (salvaging and looting) Golem should be faster. Rattlesnake is actually too much tank not enough gank, CNR wins due to its 7 launchers while being able to tank enough to complete missions. End of the day Rattles hold value due to rareness and their striking paintjob. :P Top Tip - Don't eat yellow snow
Karan Kaldarian Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.01.12 23:45:00 - [27] We could choose some missions and take time to accomplish mission..and see the real King of the Hill ship . Of corse skills and money will be important, anyway we can start to get data. Something like : Choosen Mission (level 4 of corse) for testing Enemy Abound 5/5 (four damage dealt) Vengeange (gurista) (kin, thermal) AE pocket 1to4 ( explosive , kinetic) AE pocket 5 AE bonus room Part I 1-Time start from the ôactivate gate ô (so no time from station to gate and back to agent) 2-Time end when the last npc has been killed . 3-It¦s not allowed destroing structures to avoid respawn Setting points to salvaging and looting is more difficult due to personal decisions that everyone takes in the process. Part II A separate time for specific salvaging and partial looting (this for those ships that permit to do this , marauders, etc.) 1-Time start from the ôactivate gateô (so no time from station to gate and back to agent) 2-Time end when the last usefull can has been salvaged and looted, or in case of a second trip (I think there will be none) , when you activate warp to gate ( so : starting from ôactivate gateö and ending at ôwarp to à.ö for the first trip and re-starting when back to gate to deadspace (activate gate) and end when salvaged the last compulsory wreck and ( in case ) looting. 3-Salvaging compulsory for all BS and BC . 4-Salvaging for all other ship is not compulsory 5-Looting is not compulsory 5-Report volume of looted and salvaged. àand for those that go for full salvage and loot Part III 1-Time start from the ôactivate gate ô (so no time from station to gate and back to agent) 2-Time end when the last can has been salvaged and looted, or in case of a second trip , when you activate warp to gate ( so : starting from ôactivate gateö and ending at ôwarp to à.ö for the first trip and re-starting when back to gate to deadspace and end when ended looting and salvaging. 3-It¦s allowed to leave (or jettison) ammunitions, metal scraps and capacitor booster charges 4-Report volume of looted and salvaged. Data to be specified : Ship tipe , Mission Tipe EA , etc Part I : time Part II : time when possible Part II : volume of salvaged and looted ( when available) Part III : time Part III : volume of looted and salvaged Part III : nr. of trips.
Narf Commandude	Posted - 2008.01.13 01:09:00 - [28] The raven is a good ship no doupts there, But for missions you also have to consider how much it costs to set up that ship, and the skillz involved. While the Raven is good for missions, the nighthawk is better, but the Domi might be just as good as a raven but cheeper. and the domi can tank like hell, with sentri drones that ship can rack up some serious damage, and if u want a different damage type switch drones.
Qui Shon	Posted - 2008.01.13 10:24:00 - [29] There is already a fresh thread about mission completion times going, currently on page 1 of Mission sforum. You should enter your times there.


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