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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
mental88 CCCP INC	Posted - 2008.01.11 11:40:00 - [1] fellow eve player, i'm realy fet up with the way gm's handle the petitions. my current petition is about a ship lose inside pos shield. all they can and will say is we can't find anything in our server logs or failing to admid there is a bug. i qoute a few things from my petition reply's by gm's: first reply: Quote: Thank you for contacting customer support. We apologize for the late reply. We regret to inform you that we have not been able to verify exactly what happened to you and thus are not able to reimburse you. We can only use our server logs for verification as this is the only secure information that we have. third reply: Quote: We are sorry about your loss.However, we can ensure you that after a very careful review of our server records, we still don't see any server problem at the time of your destruction. We are sorry for your loss but we have to stick to our reimbursement policy which only allows us to reimburse the loss due to verified bugs, errors, or recorded server issues. last reply: Quote: My apologies for the late reply. After looking into the relevant logs and reviewing this case, I have to concur with the decision made by the previous GM. We cannot verify through our server logs that your loss was caused by a bug or server problems, and thus we are forced to deny reimbursement. I am sorry that we aren't able to reverse your losses this time around. by the looks of things they take bugs pretty light and don't follow there own rules. Quote: "Ships lost during PVP combat may be replaced only in cases where a bug has been verified as the cause of the loss. Such reimbursement would only be done after an investigation and at the discretion of a GM." this is pure bull**** they are saying to me they pos warfare or the posses where not bugged. can anyone tell me what is wrong with the gm's and there server logs since we the players aren't allowed to have a look in the logs. mental
Jonny JoJo Amarr The Imperial Guards Darkness Rising Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.11 11:42:00 - [2] Remove GM quotes ASAP or they will nerf your post as much as they Nerfed Amarr! Refresh to see next Real Life CCP sig(21 total)
ApaKaka Lone Starr Corporation	Posted - 2008.01.11 11:43:00 - [3] In before the deletion.
Sleepkevert Rionnag Alba	Posted - 2008.01.11 11:43:00 - [4] No, posses are bugged, but I don't think there is a bug that is RELEVANT to your loss. Sorry to hear you are not getting anything, but such is the rules... _______ Sign my sig!
Moneeh	Posted - 2008.01.11 11:43:00 - [5] stuff ....can.........i ..haz?
Lais Eron	Posted - 2008.01.11 11:45:00 - [6] well for one crappy code written by underpaid inexperienced programmers would cause lag and not register on any logs :P
Arngorf Minmatar x13 When Fat Kids Attack	Posted - 2008.01.11 11:46:00 - [7] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Remove GM quotes ASAP or they will nerf your post as much as they Nerfed Amarr! I would prefer not to have them deleted... let as many ppl see how much the GM support sucks so that we at some point will have an army of petition whiners Somethng HAS to be done! __________________________________
Lais Eron	Posted - 2008.01.11 11:46:00 - [8] Originally by: Moneeh stuff ....can.........i ..haz? no he will givz0r his stuffs to me because i schpell better
Jonny JoJo Amarr The Imperial Guards Darkness Rising Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.11 11:47:00 - [9] Originally by: Arngorf Originally by: Jonny JoJo Remove GM quotes ASAP or they will nerf your post as much as they Nerfed Amarr! I would prefer not to have them deleted... let as many ppl see how much the GM support sucks so that we at some point will have an army of petition whiners Somethng HAS to be done! Forgot to post with your alt? Refresh to see next Real Life CCP sig(21 total)
Oku Kee'lus	Posted - 2008.01.11 11:50:00 - [10] Quote: by the looks of things they take bugs pretty light and don't follow there own rules. Eeerm, I think you might want to improve your reading skills mate. Quote: "Ships lost during PVP combat may be replaced only in cases where a bug has been verified as the cause of the loss. Such reimbursement would only be done after an investigation and at the discretion of a GM." They can't verify your loss was due to a bug, hence they wont re-imburse you. They are sticking to their own rules, like they should. Move one, they can't help you. it's not their fault either... and don't throw a hissy when you get a warning for posting this, which is against the rules.
DroneBay Diva The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.01.11 11:51:00 - [11] Edited by: DroneBay Diva on 11/01/2008 11:56:14 Edited by: DroneBay Diva on 11/01/2008 11:53:47 Originally by: Arngorf Originally by: Jonny JoJo Remove GM quotes ASAP or they will nerf your post as much as they Nerfed Amarr! I would prefer not to have them deleted... let as many ppl see how much the GM support sucks so that we at some point will have an army of petition whiners Somethng HAS to be done! Yeah, CCP customer support sucks. Their petition system sucks. Their programmers suck. Their bug testers REALLY suck. The language filter sucks. The search feature sucks. But the game is fun. Weight them against each other and make your decision. Edit: lag, desynch's, and node crashes also suck. Edit 2: sound effects and in-game music sucks too, tbh. _____________________________________________________________________________
Moneeh	Posted - 2008.01.11 11:52:00 - [12] Originally by: DroneBay Diva Originally by: Arngorf Originally by: Jonny JoJo Remove GM quotes ASAP or they will nerf your post as much as they Nerfed Amarr! I would prefer not to have them deleted... let as many ppl see how much the GM support sucks so that we at some point will have an army of petition whiners Somethng HAS to be done! Yeah, CCP customer support sucks. Their petition system sucks. Their programmers suck. Their bug testers REALLY suck. The language filter sucks. The search feature sucks. But the game is fun. Weight them against each other and make you decision. and give them stuffz to me
Silent Silar New Eden Research and Construction	Posted - 2008.01.11 12:06:00 - [13] Ibtl, And I agree. They suck. :\| Component and Freightner Blueprints
Ursula LeGuinn Versus Gloria Omnis	Posted - 2008.01.11 12:08:00 - [14] What I want to know is this: If they can't find a bug in the logs, surely they can locate the section of the logs that show what actually happened to the person's ship? These threads pop up all the time, and the GM answer is never: "Our logs show it was actually ________, not a bug." It's always: "Sorry, we can't find anything in our logs to prove your claim." No details as to what they found instead.
Ris Dnalor Minmatar Ama-gi	Posted - 2008.01.11 12:10:00 - [15] I too have had this problem. I understand that they want to keep people from modifying the logs. that's ok. Why not let us have download access to them? We could then review the logs and point to the page and paragraph where the logs indicate some error? or do the logs even exist.... -- No love for the Matari

CCP Atropos	Posted - 2008.01.11 12:15:00 - [16] Please do not post GM communications on the forums.

Jaketh Ivanes Amarr Do Or Die And Live Or Try The Kano Organisation	Posted - 2008.01.11 12:21:00 - [17] Originally by: Arngorf Originally by: Jonny JoJo Remove GM quotes ASAP or they will nerf your post as much as they Nerfed Amarr! I would prefer not to have them deleted... let as many ppl see how much the GM support sucks so that we at some point will have an army of petition whiners Somethng HAS to be done! Yeah, you have to learn to think further than your own nose. Sorry if it seems harsh, but after reading the replies, I see absolutely nothing wrong with the GM's decision. They are polite. They state what they had done and that they couldn't find anything in their logs. You know, a desync will not show up in their logs. That could be the reason for your loss, and so not CCP's fault.
Fifth Horseman	Posted - 2008.01.11 12:32:00 - [18] Quote: "Ships lost during PVP combat may be replaced only in cases where a bug has been verified as the cause of the loss. Such reimbursement would only be done after an investigation and at the discretion of a GM." Innocent until proven guilty is the usual method for non-CCP customers. However, as far as CCP are concerned, you, and by you I mean "You, who is reading this", you are 100% a complete liar. You are a cheat, a swindler, you are attempting to steal isk from a game you have not earned. You are worthy of nothing you despicable excuse for a person. It should be that where the logs show that you lost ship by an acceptable method, you will not be reimbursed. Anything else is an affront to all that is decent in the world.
Chrysalis D'lilth	Posted - 2008.01.11 12:35:00 - [19] tbh, i'd rather they save themselves the time and just not reimburse ships ever, no matter why you lost it and instead spend their time both improving the game and performance....
Fifth Horseman	Posted - 2008.01.11 12:41:00 - [20] Originally by: Chrysalis D'lilth Quote: Innocent until proven guilty is the usual method for non-CCP customers. Thats not even slightly true - most MMO's follow the same guidelines as CCP in terms of reimbursement, i.e. they check logs/roll backs to see if your telling the truth or making up a story. You words are not a reply to my words, they are a reply to some other words I didn't use. There is a huge difference between an assumption of innocence, and an assumption of guilt. No reasonable authority ever expects a person to prove himself innocent, nor do they assume them to be guilty. If CCP cannot determine guilt, they should be assuming innocence, it is one of the founding basic principles on which most societies are based.
Drasked North Face Force	Posted - 2008.01.11 12:42:00 - [21] Always nice to be able to read "stuff that is modded gestapo style" on here And i feel your pain, when it comes to ship replacement the replys from the GM's can be the most dodgy of all. Also the fact that where not allowed to discuss that stuff on here doesn't make it any easyer to see how consistent GM's are (because they are probably far from it)
Esmenet Gallente	Posted - 2008.01.11 12:42:00 - [22] Originally by: Chrysalis D'lilth Edited by: Chrysalis D''lilth on 11/01/2008 12:36:50 tbh, i'd rather they save themselves the time and just not reimburse ships ever, no matter why you lost it and instead spend their time both improving the game and performance.... I agree completely. Then the GM's can handle real issues instead of people whining about loosing their ship to lag. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Kreul Intentions ([email protected])
Esmenet Gallente	Posted - 2008.01.11 12:44:00 - [23] Originally by: Fifth Horseman You words are not a reply to my words, they are a reply to some other words I didn't use. There is a huge difference between an assumption of innocence, and an assumption of guilt. No reasonable authority ever expects a person to prove himself innocent, nor do they assume them to be guilty. If CCP cannot determine guilt, they should be assuming innocence, it is one of the founding basic principles on which most societies are based. That would be pure stupidity and would largely ruin the concept of loss in the game. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Kreul Intentions ([email protected])
Lazuran Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation	Posted - 2008.01.11 12:47:00 - [24] Situations such as this one could be handled better if loss mails / logs contained more information such as: - objects within 250km with distance (in this case it would show the actual distance of the Tower => easy to determine whether the loss was OK or due to a bug) - effects active on the ship during the loss (1 scram pt. by player X, POS shield by Gallente Control Tower, Warp Disrupt Probe belonging to XXX...) I'd expect many loss petitions to be avoided this way, or handled better/quicker. Disclaimer: I do not speak for the fanbois.
Captain Thunk Captain Morgan Society	Posted - 2008.01.11 12:49:00 - [25] There are problems with the way petitions are handled. My Brosef lost a ship to node weirdness as well as 2 other corp mates. The two corpmates got their ships reimbursed but my brosefs petition received the "our server logs show no problems" treatment. It makes no sense and took 2 months of petitioning and 2 more GMs to review (the first concurred with the original) before it was finally dealt with consistently with the other people at that time. That and forum rules. They make no sense either. What's the point in barring people without a corp ticker from posting in CAOD when you can make a corp called "God that's a stupid CAOD rule" with a noob alt and post freely. And why censor GM communication? It's copy and paste standard replies that everyones already seen plenty of times before. If it was something more specific I could understand but they were just the normal standard replies. THUNK!
Surreptitious Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.11 12:55:00 - [26] Originally by: CCP Atropos Please do not post GM communications on the forums. How about being helpful to the poor guy and giving some advice on how to get it resolved. This is why so many people think your customer support sucks. Syrup
Fifth Horseman	Posted - 2008.01.11 12:59:00 - [27] Originally by: Esmenet That would be pure stupidity and would largely ruin the concept of loss in the game. What? The concept of loss should include software and internet defficiencies? Now, that's stupid.
Fifth Horseman	Posted - 2008.01.11 13:01:00 - [28] Edited by: Fifth Horseman on 11/01/2008 13:03:54 Originally by: Captain Thunk And why censor GM communication? It's copy and paste standard replies that everyones already seen plenty of times before. If it was something more specific I could understand but they were just the normal standard replies. They don't want any evidence out there that the GM system is fundamentally flawed, completely inconsistant, and in some cases, corrupted. In fact looking at the cases where people have proved beyond a doubt something that CCP should not have done or allowed, it has always been the whistle blower that CCP has terminated, and indeed not the guilty party. Pretty much sums up everything about what to expect from them. In brighter news, I have received a full refund from [Popular grill manufacturer], and a voucher as compensation for a very minor burn that I got from one of their grills I bought. They are indeed very sorry for it, and are looking into the problem with the grill. They didn't inspect my wound. Or treat me like dirt.
Esmenet Gallente	Posted - 2008.01.11 13:09:00 - [29] Edited by: Esmenet on 11/01/2008 13:09:38 Originally by: Fifth Horseman Originally by: Esmenet That would be pure stupidity and would largely ruin the concept of loss in the game. What? The concept of loss should include software and internet defficiencies? Now, that's stupid. Yes because its extremely easy to fake lag, without any real possibility for ccp to prove this. This would remove the concept of loss as i'd fake internet problems every time i got in trouble. That would be utterly stupid for the game, as ship loss is the drivng force in the game. It would be much better if they just stopped reimbursing at all. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Kreul Intentions ([email protected])
Jaketh Ivanes Amarr Do Or Die And Live Or Try The Kano Organisation	Posted - 2008.01.11 13:29:00 - [30] Originally by: Fifth Horseman Innocent until proven guilty is the usual method for non-CCP customers. You are correct, if this had been a criminal accusation. But it's an insurance petition, and every insurance company will inspect your car and reason for the damage, before giving out any money. And why do you ask? Because so many people have tried to cheat the insurance company. CCP are just using common sense. It is actually you who are accusing CCP of being corrupt. Now bring the proof of their guilt.

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