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Xequecal
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Posted - 2008.01.13 03:27:00 -
[121]
ECM doesn't need a nerf. Multispecs have low jam strength and you can't just assume you'll always be able to match racial jammers to your enemies.
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Grimpak
Gallente Trinity Nova
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Posted - 2008.01.13 03:29:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Xequecal ECM doesn't need a nerf. Multispecs have low jam strength and you can't just assume you'll always be able to match racial jammers to your enemies.
tell that to the whine brigade. ---
planetary interaction idea! |
Ariel Dawn
Beets and Gravy Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.01.13 03:57:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Xequecal ECM doesn't need a nerf. Multispecs have low jam strength and you can't just assume you'll always be able to match racial jammers to your enemies.
tell that to the whine brigade.
Aye. And of course, CCP will over react like in the case of Gallente drone ships. Drones no longer instantly recharging shields solved the balance issues of the Myrmidon since no amount of skill would save their drones; but they took it a step further.
Flying and training for a dedicated ECM ship is not for everyone, many of them doomed to fly them forever due to pressure from gang-mates. They should be able to control the battlefield when left unmolested; not calling for an ECM nerf.
If ECCM was to receive a secondary bonus, what would fit best? Signature radius is the one of the few remaining ship stats that have no modules that modify it, could be useful to increase lock times on the ship/reduce received damage.
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Stefan F
Enrave Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2008.01.13 04:33:00 -
[124]
People should do a maths test before being allowed to reply in this topic. The whole point is people who are losing there I-win button. They now have to sacrifice a midslot to a eccm so then can no longer AND control range (MWD) AND keep from warping (Scram) AND hold in place (web) AND have unlimited cap (for a short amount of time, with boosters).
You guys just cant have it all at once. Accept it or go play another game.
ECM ships are easily beatable: FOF missiles. I really laugh out loud when i encounter a ECM ship. Load FOF and they have 10s to get the hell out before their paper tanks get crushed. Just like minmatar is best at killing theirselves (huginn/rapier vs vagabond) so are caldari (FOF light/heavy/cruise vs ecm)
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Grimpak
Gallente Trinity Nova
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Posted - 2008.01.13 04:39:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Stefan F People should do a maths test before being allowed to reply in this topic. The whole point is people who are losing there I-win button. They now have to sacrifice a midslot to a eccm so then can no longer AND control range (MWD) AND keep from warping (Scram) AND hold in place (web) AND have unlimited cap (for a short amount of time, with boosters).
You guys just cant have it all at once. Accept it or go play another game.
ECM ships are easily beatable: FOF missiles. I really laugh out loud when i encounter a ECM ship. Load FOF and they have 10s to get the hell out before their paper tanks get crushed. Just like minmatar is best at killing theirselves (huginn/rapier vs vagabond) so are caldari (FOF light/heavy/cruise vs ecm)
Originally by: Grimpak tell that to the whine brigade.
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planetary interaction idea! |
Xequecal
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Posted - 2008.01.13 04:46:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Stefan F People should do a maths test before being allowed to reply in this topic. The whole point is people who are losing there I-win button. They now have to sacrifice a midslot to a eccm so then can no longer AND control range (MWD) AND keep from warping (Scram) AND hold in place (web) AND have unlimited cap (for a short amount of time, with boosters).
You guys just cant have it all at once. Accept it or go play another game.
ECM ships are easily beatable: FOF missiles. I really laugh out loud when i encounter a ECM ship. Load FOF and they have 10s to get the hell out before their paper tanks get crushed. Just like minmatar is best at killing theirselves (huginn/rapier vs vagabond) so are caldari (FOF light/heavy/cruise vs ecm)
While I don't think ECM is overpowered, this is a non-argument. You could "counter" RSDs with FoF missiles as well, and those were still rightfully nerfed to hell because of how overpowered they were. Amarr/Gallente/Minmatar can't fit FoF missiles to their ships. Hell, a good number of Caldari ships can't either, Siege launchers and HAM launchers don't accept FoF missiles.
ECM requires you to dedicate your low slots AND your mid slots to ECM, meaning you can't tank, tackle, or do any DPS. It's also chance based. That's why it's not overpowered.
ECM is only a "problem" because Gallente is so grossly overpowered that ECM pilots can just fit a full rack of anti-magnetometric jammers and be pretty much assured of having multiple matching targets to hit. Anyone remember that dev blog that showed almost as many Gallente ships in space as Amarr + Minmatar combined?
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue Sex Panthers
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Posted - 2008.01.13 05:10:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Stefan F People should do a maths test before being allowed to reply in this topic. The whole point is people who are losing there I-win button. They now have to sacrifice a midslot to a eccm so then can no longer AND control range (MWD) AND keep from warping (Scram) AND hold in place (web) AND have unlimited cap (for a short amount of time, with boosters).
You guys just cant have it all at once. Accept it or go play another game.
ECM ships are easily beatable: FOF missiles. I really laugh out loud when i encounter a ECM ship. Load FOF and they have 10s to get the hell out before their paper tanks get crushed. Just like minmatar is best at killing theirselves (huginn/rapier vs vagabond) so are caldari (FOF light/heavy/cruise vs ecm)
You must not be playing the same game as I am. Good luck hitting my EW ships from 220+km with anything at all, much less FoFs.
I'm not too worried about it. Already have 2x max skilled Falcon pilots, with more on the way. It doesn't matter how much DPS you have or how much tank you have, as long as you have more EW than the enemy.
Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness
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Posted - 2008.01.13 09:01:00 -
[128]
Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 13/01/2008 09:01:33
Originally by: Xequecal ECM doesn't need a nerf. Multispecs have low jam strength and you can't just assume you'll always be able to match racial jammers to your enemies.
Uhm you do know ecm pilots dont fit full rack of multies in their mids. They fit one for each race and then a few multies in the rest maybe.
Could you also explain why no one in their right mind would choose damp/td/tp instead of ecm to disrupt an enemy?
The only use for TD/Nos-amarr ew is to kill a capitals cap while killing it. Ecm outperforms it in every way other then that.
tp/web-minmatar one is good against nano, this is a totally different role. This kills nanos, but ecm disrupts them just as good but doesnt kill.
damps-gallente, well this is just a subpar form of ecm that has been nerfed in last patch ontop of it.
How is it that ecm doesnt need a nerf? Or ok you might say the other form of ew needs a boost (wich is the same as nerfing the one that isnt boosted) ---------------------------------------------
[Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice |
Antodias
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.01.13 11:41:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Xequecal Anyone remember that dev blog that showed almost as many Gallente ships in space as Amarr + Minmatar combined?
No, it's pretty much always been Caldari:
Linkage ------------------------------------
Politically Correct since 2007. No really. |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness
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Posted - 2008.01.13 11:51:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Antodias Gallente are especially susceptible to TD/Nos or Neut combo.
This is not true. TD+Nos/Neut kills amarr most effective amongst the 4 races. ---------------------------------------------
[Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice |
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Antodias
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.01.13 12:04:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Antodias Gallente are especially susceptible to TD/Nos or Neut combo.
This is not true. TD+Nos/Neut kills amarr most effective amongst the 4 races.
With TDs it usually depends on ammo type. In the T2 pulses and blasters, pulses won't be as badly affected because smart people carry T1 crystals to help tracking. Maybe with the introduction of faction ammo its a bit different but that's not so widely used yet.
Neuts I'll give you. I haven't used Amarr ships against Nos so much lately so I can't comment on that. ------------------------------------
Politically Correct since 2007. No really. |
Cautet
North Siders
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Posted - 2008.01.14 01:54:00 -
[132]
Edited by: Cautet on 14/01/2008 01:57:52 Edited by: Cautet on 14/01/2008 01:57:03 Counters to ECM:
ECCM Sensor Damps Speed FoF (with sensor damps or speed) Drones (with sensor damps or speed) ECM Sniping Fly Amarr (if fighting against familiar opponents every now and again change racial mixture of your gang, you will notice suddenly no one gets jammed.)
You get a free % chance of ignoring it anyway. Once you assign a vagabond to go drop drones on a falcon it will run away if it manages to ecm the vagabond before dying. Same with a crow with fof missiles. Put a purifer on it to damp and almost single volley the falcon. Or any of the many many other tactics. Most times a falcon will run if a ship gets close to it, no matter what ship.
This doesn't make ecm rubbish, but it does make it balanced.
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Princess Xenia
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.01.14 02:43:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Antodias
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Antodias Gallente are especially susceptible to TD/Nos or Neut combo.
This is not true. TD+Nos/Neut kills amarr most effective amongst the 4 races.
With TDs it usually depends on ammo type. In the T2 pulses and blasters, pulses won't be as badly affected because smart people carry T1 crystals to help tracking. Maybe with the introduction of faction ammo its a bit different but that's not so widely used yet.
Neuts I'll give you. I haven't used Amarr ships against Nos so much lately so I can't comment on that.
LOL at "Pulses won't be as badly affected" LOL...
What is the advantage of pulse??? Turret range for mid-range engagement...
What happens when pulse get TDed??? Abysymal range... and even lower tracking (remember pulse has WORST tracking amonsgt the short-range turrets)...
How do Gallente blaster overcome TD??? web and guess what.. web-range IS their engagement range???
How about Minmatar autocannons??? yup... their tracking get pwned... fair enough if they speed-tank its called EW for a reason...
Again how about Amarr pulse?? pwned range AND tracking... Can u feel the irony??? Amarr getting pwn by their own EW THE MOST...
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Atsuko Ratu
Caldari VSP Corp.
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Posted - 2008.01.14 06:30:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: Stefan F People should do a maths test before being allowed to reply in this topic. The whole point is people who are losing there I-win button. They now have to sacrifice a midslot to a eccm so then can no longer AND control range (MWD) AND keep from warping (Scram) AND hold in place (web) AND have unlimited cap (for a short amount of time, with boosters).
You guys just cant have it all at once. Accept it or go play another game.
ECM ships are easily beatable: FOF missiles. I really laugh out loud when i encounter a ECM ship. Load FOF and they have 10s to get the hell out before their paper tanks get crushed. Just like minmatar is best at killing theirselves (huginn/rapier vs vagabond) so are caldari (FOF light/heavy/cruise vs ecm)
You must not be playing the same game as I am. Good luck hitting my EW ships from 220+km with anything at all, much less FoFs.
I'm not too worried about it. Already have 2x max skilled Falcon pilots, with more on the way. It doesn't matter how much DPS you have or how much tank you have, as long as you have more EW than the enemy.
I have 924 falcon pilots, and I run them on a single computer with a macro.
Stop spouting bull****. I have a feeling you've never even been in a falcon, let alone double your number of alt pilots weekly.
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ShardowRhino
Caldari The Older Gamers R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.01.14 09:20:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Xequecal
No, the problem is if you are low SP and have at least one other person with you, a Blackbird is many times better than anything else you could possibly fly. There is simply no comparison to any other Tech 1 ship in the game in terms of destructive power.
"Destructive power"??? Are you sure about that? The blackbird is as tough as a soda can. So a 2v2 fight, the bb is going to get blasted to bits leaving his friend at the mercy of the 2 hostiles.
ECM eats up cap. A low SP character is not going to be able to run a full rack of ECM for very long.
A nub is going to have low ECM strengths. In addition to his low ranges. The shorter his ECM range is, his vulnerability increases.
Fittings also effect him.If he goes full multispec his going to be hit by the cap drain much quicker. His ECM range is also going to be decreased. His ECM strength is going to be lower then If he had fit to go against a specific race,considering he will have low skills he wont have many modifiers to help him out with such.
Lets not forget that the BB fits it's ECM in the same slots as it would need in order to tank. A certain little ship with SDs doesn't have that problem. Even if the SD ship can fit 1 mod to give it a bit of tank, it is already tougher then a BB.
Then you can go back to the fact that a BB's ECM is chance based.That means the nub is going to be burning up his cap in a flash,with no tank at all, trying to jam at a short range with only a few weapons to defend itself. Slap on an ECCM mod( 1 not a whole rack) and chances are your going to nullify the little chicken nugget of a ship.
SDs have to pay for their "always on" benifits. Just like ECM has to pay for its "sometimes on but when it does it fully jams" benefits. Not only is it chance based but the mods eat up our midslots which is strangely enough exactly where we need slots in order to shield tank.
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