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snaike
Metafarmers
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Posted - 2008.01.12 11:16:00 -
[31]
I don't quite understand why podding is frowned upon so much in this game, really. It's not like it's game over.
Oh and signed.
Cryin' Won't Help You, Prayin' Will Do You No Good |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Enuma Elish.
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Posted - 2008.01.12 11:19:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Jaabaa Prime I can live with that, but I really have to say something about it.
Those that podded me will never officially know, apart from in this post, you got me good with a full set of +4s, a mind link and other implants.
I never know what implants the pod had that I killed had, ever.
So, how about CCP adding implants to Capsule kill mails ?
It can't really be THAT hard.
If someone kills me for a Rho clone, then good, all the more KPs to them, but CCP's ignorance of the value of a pod + clone contract (and possible implants) deludes me.
Make a pod kill worth something, and let people know what you lost when it happened.
Ship fittings = useful intel.
Implants/Clone cost = pure gloating over pain caused.
Against. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? |
Amarria Black
Clan Anthraxx
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Posted - 2008.01.12 11:20:00 -
[33]
Originally by: snaike I don't quite understand why podding is frowned upon so much in this game, really. It's not like it's game over.
Oh and signed.
Because frantically fapping while killing a completely helpless target for no reason other than to get your jollies is just about as pathetic as it gets.
Not quite as pathetic as whining about getting podded (or a lack of targets) on the forums, but close.
Originally by: Frug Your reputation has been entirely redeemed in my eyes. I now want your babies.
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snaike
Metafarmers
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Posted - 2008.01.12 11:25:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Amarria Black
Originally by: snaike I don't quite understand why podding is frowned upon so much in this game, really. It's not like it's game over.
Oh and signed.
Because frantically fapping while killing a completely helpless target for no reason other than to get your jollies is just about as pathetic as it gets.
Not quite as pathetic as whining about getting podded (or a lack of targets) on the forums, but close.
Frantically fapping? huh?
Besides, podding has its tactical reasons.....it removes the target from local so you don't have to hear them *****
Cryin' Won't Help You, Prayin' Will Do You No Good |
Karyuudo Tydraad
Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services The Acquisition
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Posted - 2008.01.12 11:35:00 -
[35]
I just don't get you guys. The whole point of a killboard is so you can effectively evaluate how well you are doing in a conflict/in general. It would seem to me that this only improves the killmail system by providing more accurate information regarding what you've destroyed/lost. Implants have value that isn't currently able to be taken into account. Regardless of whether or not you're able to recover them, you've inflicted a loss on the enemy/suffered a loss, and there should be some method of recognizing that. This has nothing to do with E-peen.
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Kel Dario
Amarr Blue Sky Inc
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Posted - 2008.01.12 11:39:00 -
[36]
Not signed.
I don't want you to know the value of my implants on the killmail.
If you want to know what inplants I had then you have to get messy with my corpse in the station.
Speaking about corpses, it would be kinda cool if you could run them trough the refinery to get useful stuff for drugs making. That would be highly illegal in empire of course, but in the pirate regions that would just be a resource like any other.
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Amarria Black
Clan Anthraxx
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Posted - 2008.01.12 11:54:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad I just don't get you guys. The whole point of a killboard is so you can effectively evaluate how well you are doing in a conflict/in general. It would seem to me that this only improves the killmail system by providing more accurate information regarding what you've destroyed/lost. Implants have value that isn't currently able to be taken into account. Regardless of whether or not you're able to recover them, you've inflicted a loss on the enemy/suffered a loss, and there should be some method of recognizing that. This has nothing to do with E-peen.
In what I'm willing to state are a majority of cases, sure. Killboards are for tracking k/d ratio, ISK efficiency, opfor intel, etc. That said, a sizable portion of the kinds of people who post on killboards are only interested in taking things away from others. The current system of listing everything on a destroyed ship but nothing on a spaced corpse walks the fine line where the information is still relevant without giving any more ammunition to the truly antisocial than is needed.
Originally by: Frug Your reputation has been entirely redeemed in my eyes. I now want your babies.
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Valan
The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.01.12 12:00:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Jei'son Bladesmith
Originally by: Tarminic Let's all remember that killmails are not the reason you should be killing.
Since when?
If thats what floats your boat then its all good. When there is a real objective then ship losses don't matter.
What annoys me about killboard *****s is that they harm the gang they're in. Actvities such as.
1) Spreading fire on anything but the primary just to get a more mails. 2) Jumping ahead when you've been told to hold. 3) Not holding a gate and warping to every engagement reported leaving tactical choke points in a weakened state.
There are many more I can't think of now. Its just bad discipline and reduces a units effectiveness in a combat situation. Also makes it harder for the FC to carry out tactics and allocate resources.
A killboard ***** isn't a team player all he's interested is how his epeen looks to people around him. Thing is people aren't stupid so while he's strutting around, people are usually muttering ****er under their breath because a single BC was left guarding a gate and the entire fleet was ambushed.
/start sig I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game four years' when I know their account has been sold on. /end sig |
Tuschii
Filthy Scum The Church.
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Posted - 2008.01.12 12:27:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Danton Marcellus Make it a skill to perform an autopsy on a corpse to get this information. Now there's a fringe occupation for the macabre.
I love this idea! but the skill should allow you to have a chance at recovering one of said implants, maby 10% or so at max level. A new profession is born, corpse hunting. mmmmmmmmm Braaaaaaains ---
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2008.01.12 12:30:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Tuschii
Originally by: Danton Marcellus Make it a skill to perform an autopsy on a corpse to get this information. Now there's a fringe occupation for the macabre.
I love this idea! but the skill should allow you to have a chance at recovering one of said implants, maby 10% or so at max level. A new profession is born, corpse hunting. mmmmmmmmm Braaaaaaains ---
Oh god. Why do I like this idea? Please stop
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Lord Zoran
Caldari House of Tempers
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Posted - 2008.01.12 12:31:00 -
[41]
Originally by: snaike I don't quite understand why podding is frowned upon so much in this game, really. It's not like it's game over.
Oh and signed.
well it is if you forget to upgrade your clone
anyway /signed
Yarr!?!?!?!?! |
Bimjo
Caldari SKULLDOGS
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Posted - 2008.01.12 12:46:00 -
[42]
Originally by: snaike I don't quite understand why podding is frowned upon so much in this game, really. It's not like it's game over.
Oh and signed.
When the levee breaks, mama, you got to move ======================== Q6600,8800 Ultra SLI, Vista 32, 4Gig RAM , G15 , TripleHead2Go, Raptor X |
Fswd
Gallente Black Ops Corporation
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Posted - 2008.01.12 12:52:00 -
[43]
Cough* e-peen ****ing *cough ---
Originally by: Richard Phallus HEY! Giving helpful correct information isn't an eve meme! Stop that.
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Elmicker
The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities
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Posted - 2008.01.12 12:53:00 -
[44]
Primary use for a killboard in my eyes is performance evaluation and intelligence gathering. Implants on mails would improve both of those tasks, so i have to agree with the OP.
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Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.01.12 12:56:00 -
[45]
CCP once said they'd like to introduce the chance to salvage implants from corpses. That would be nice. ------------------------------------------
What is Oomph? It the sound Amarr players makes when they get kicked in the ribs. |
Kelron Queldine
Infinitus Odium The Church.
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Posted - 2008.01.12 13:16:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Valan
If thats what floats your boat then its all good. When there is a real objective then ship losses don't matter.
What annoys me about killboard *****s is that they harm the gang they're in. Actvities such as.
1) Spreading fire on anything but the primary just to get a more mails. 2) Jumping ahead when you've been told to hold. 3) Not holding a gate and warping to every engagement reported leaving tactical choke points in a weakened state.
There are many more I can't think of now. Its just bad discipline and reduces a units effectiveness in a combat situation. Also makes it harder for the FC to carry out tactics and allocate resources.
A killboard ***** isn't a team player all he's interested is how his epeen looks to people around him. Thing is people aren't stupid so while he's strutting around, people are usually muttering ****er under their breath because a single BC was left guarding a gate and the entire fleet was ambushed.
There's a difference between killmail *****s like you describe, and people who like to see an accurate record of what they've killed. Killboards are partly a tactical tool, yes, but what's wrong with getting some entertainment out of seeing that a hostile target you just killed had a faction fit, or laughing with friends at a battleship fitted with frigate guns?
Seeing implants on pods would just be an extension of this. Is it necessary? No. But it doesn't detract from the game either. Killmail *****s like you describe them probably pod anything they can anyway, most pirates and alliances will pod anything left on the battlefield when the ships are gone as standard practice, and people worried about sec status are not going to pod random people just to see if they had implants. ---------------------------
Vanilla Crazy Cake! |
Malcanis
5 finger discounteers
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Posted - 2008.01.12 13:22:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Tuschii
Originally by: Danton Marcellus Make it a skill to perform an autopsy on a corpse to get this information. Now there's a fringe occupation for the macabre.
I love this idea! but the skill should allow you to have a chance at recovering one of said implants, maby 10% or so at max level. A new profession is born, corpse hunting. mmmmmmmmm Braaaaaaains ---
That's disgusting. You're disgusting.
/Signed.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
DHG
North Siders Fang Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.12 13:45:00 -
[48]
Edited by: DHG on 12/01/2008 13:46:16
Originally by: Amarria Black *snip*
In what I'm willing to state are a majority of cases, sure. Killboards are for tracking k/d ratio, ISK efficiency, opfor intel, etc. That said, a sizable portion of the kinds of people who post on killboards are only interested in taking things away from others. The current system of listing everything on a destroyed ship but nothing on a spaced corpse walks the fine line where the information is still relevant without giving any more ammunition to the truly antisocial than is needed.
You've no idea ...
Information not relevant? Let's see in a few examples: Podded somebody in a 2-3 BS gang engagement, turns out he had a full slave set in his head. Assume everybody was in a plated gank BS. Information gained: he will take aprox 50% longer to take down. Will we primary him next time? No, as since we now know that he can use a slave set and probably will have another one.
Second example: needed to call in a gang to gank a sleipnir, victim was podded afterwards, turns out he had a crystal set in his head (yay PODkill information). Will we primary this fellow next time we see him with a sleipnir in a small CS gang? No.
Thirth example: after a few hours of hunting an inty, the inty goes pop by getting hit by smartbombs on a gate, POD got killed as well. Turns out he had snakes in his head. Will we try to hunt him down next time we see him? Less likely, as since we poor fellows can't keep up with a snaked inty.
Fourth example: POD information shows somebody had probing hardwires in his head. So, next time when safespotted, we'll be extra carefull when we see that guy enter local.
I can give more examples if you like. It's all usefull, you only have to see past the +1, +2, +3, +4 and +5 learning implants.
And on a side note, most people will podkill you anyway, with or without that information. We may as well give it a function, so your 'precious' implants won't die without a proper 'reason' (any reason is better then "I did that because I can").
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.01.12 14:00:00 -
[49]
Superior kill statistics found here. -
DesuSigs |
Adonis 4174
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Posted - 2008.01.12 14:10:00 -
[50]
What if this were balanced with 50% insurance for implants? ---- Anything less is wasted effort |
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2008.01.12 14:36:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Adonis 4174 What if this were balanced with 50% insurance for implants?
50% of the 15k worth of minerals they refine into? That's kinda how insurance works... kinda useless IMO.
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Adonis 4174
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Posted - 2008.01.12 14:50:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Wet Ferret
Originally by: Adonis 4174 What if this were balanced with 50% insurance for implants?
50% of the 15k worth of minerals they refine into? That's kinda how insurance works... kinda useless IMO.
Obviously insurance for anything other than ships would work differently than ships. No, more likely it would be based on the price they cost from lp stores. 50% of the value of everything but the lp themselves. ---- Anything less is wasted effort |
Amarria Black
Clan Anthraxx
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Posted - 2008.01.12 15:23:00 -
[53]
Originally by: DHG Edited by: DHG on 12/01/2008 13:46:16
Originally by: Amarria Black *snip*
In what I'm willing to state are a majority of cases, sure. Killboards are for tracking k/d ratio, ISK efficiency, opfor intel, etc. That said, a sizable portion of the kinds of people who post on killboards are only interested in taking things away from others. The current system of listing everything on a destroyed ship but nothing on a spaced corpse walks the fine line where the information is still relevant without giving any more ammunition to the truly antisocial than is needed.
You've no idea ...
Information not relevant? Let's see in a few examples: Podded somebody in a 2-3 BS gang engagement, turns out he had a full slave set in his head. Assume everybody was in a plated gank BS. Information gained: he will take aprox 50% longer to take down. Will we primary him next time? No, as since we now know that he can use a slave set and probably will have another one.
Second example: needed to call in a gang to gank a sleipnir, victim was podded afterwards, turns out he had a crystal set in his head (yay PODkill information). Will we primary this fellow next time we see him with a sleipnir in a small CS gang? No.
Thirth example: after a few hours of hunting an inty, the inty goes pop by getting hit by smartbombs on a gate, POD got killed as well. Turns out he had snakes in his head. Will we try to hunt him down next time we see him? Less likely, as since we poor fellows can't keep up with a snaked inty.
Fourth example: POD information shows somebody had probing hardwires in his head. So, next time when safespotted, we'll be extra carefull when we see that guy enter local.
I can give more examples if you like. It's all usefull, you only have to see past the +1, +2, +3, +4 and +5 learning implants.
And on a side note, most people will podkill you anyway, with or without that information. We may as well give it a function, so your 'precious' implants won't die without a proper 'reason' (any reason is better then "I did that because I can").
You'll note that I never stated that pod killmails including implants would hold no tactical information. I stated that it walked the line between tactical information and more fuel for the killboard fappers. Ship info is a given, and fittings are ubiquitous and utterly essential; implants, not so much. (And don't quote the exceptions pretending they're rules. I, too, have fittings that only squeak by with implants.)
For the record, I like the "scoop the corpse and dig around in the meaty bits to see what you find" skill idea.
Originally by: Frug Your reputation has been entirely redeemed in my eyes. I now want your babies.
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari SIVAKASI
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Posted - 2008.01.12 15:26:00 -
[54]
Podding is cool because once you have podded enough, you can call yourself, iPod. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Recruitment -KB- |
JADE DRAG0NESS
Dark Scorpions Fate Weavers
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Posted - 2008.01.12 15:33:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 12/01/2008 15:27:38 It is time to see what all pirates wear in their heads.
Lace and ****.
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand |
Karlemgne
Infinitus Odium The Church.
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Posted - 2008.01.12 21:03:00 -
[56]
Actually I think being able to scan pods for implants would be pretty useful. I would let me know which pods I should ransom, and for how much. It might even save peoples pods (probably not) when I scan them, see no implants and decide the sec hit isn't worth giving the victim a free ride home.
-Karlemgne
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Trist Ian
The Knighthawks Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.01.12 21:06:00 -
[57]
/signed, would love to see implants on pod kills
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Audri Fisher
Caldari VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.01.12 21:19:00 -
[58]
Not signed.... I don't even think that modules should be shown on killmails. It detracts from the realism, and the "fog of war". Spying on TS metagamming is not cool, playing with statistics is good metagameing. Give the intelligence divisions something to do besides hacking peoples TS
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Telemicus Thrace
Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.01.12 22:15:00 -
[59]
While I am not against the podmail idea I do like the autopsy one better. Not sure about harvesting full implants (let alone using them, talk about sloppy seconds).
Maybe some sort of medical salvage but the most obvious course for that would be the building of implants by players, not sure what that would do to the implant trade.
Giving corpses a purpose would be cool though.
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gavhriel
Amarr Dark Blade Incorporated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.01.12 22:21:00 -
[60]
For the sake of statistics i totally agree with pod kill mails. A gang is as good as its fleet commander, as good as its best members. If you have long term plans you should always try to weaken your enemy by killing their best players and ofcourse their pods...make them lose time rebuilding.
I would maybe prefer another method to the current killmail system. Let's say you kill some ship, and you only get as the curent killmail a notification of the ship you killed (no modules). If you get to loot the wreck you get to loot a blackbox containing a list of all modules. (that would also encourage maybe more strategic fights)The pod mails could be get from scooping the corpse (eewww) I didn't give this too much thought tho, it's only an ideea and it might produce more bad then good.
The current kilmail whoring can be countered by assigning points to the participants proportional to dmg done and electronic warfare used. (i'd love to see something like this happen)
You shouldn't get points in a titan killmail for example if you're in a tech 1 frig :) and i promise you that this will happen (tech 1 frigs in titan mails, or even noob ships)
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